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Author Topic: Script in the works for PROM Seq  (Read 40557 times)

Alien³
Mar 08, 2013, 11:01:04 AM
Reply #255 on: Mar 08, 2013, 11:01:04 AM
Q
Well we know the facility on LV-223 is at least 2000 years old.


ChrisPachi
Mar 08, 2013, 11:32:33 AM
Reply #256 on: Mar 08, 2013, 11:32:33 AM
Q
Not really eons then.


Alien³
Mar 08, 2013, 01:40:39 PM
Reply #257 on: Mar 08, 2013, 01:40:39 PM
Q
Exactly, so the difference between what we see of their race (in Alien to Prometheus) means nothing.

« Last Edit: Mar 08, 2013, 02:24:34 PM by Alien³ »

180924609
Mar 09, 2013, 11:09:19 PM
Reply #258 on: Mar 09, 2013, 11:09:19 PM
Q
But... there's nothing that contradicts anything, story-wise. Some shit looks a bit different.

True. I guess it depends on how integral the nature of the original ship and its pilot are to your own view of the story. I would argue that they are deeply integral to the original film - Scott didn't have Giger on location making bone sets or have his kids wearing tiny spacesuits because it was cheap or easy - he did those things to communicate certain aspects of the ship and the Jockey, things that he has retconned in his new film. The only argument is whether you are OK with that or not.

I'm not. Sucks for me. ;D

Exactly.

The Prometheus Space Jockey gets scaled down to an embarrassing piss-poor space suit(!) containing a tall-ish bald bloke. Oh, and his genome is identical to modern humans - whatever the f**k thats supposed to mean? 

The 'Alien-Evolution' Blu-Ray cover sleeve tries embarrassingly hard to hide the fact that the Prometheus Space Jockey is a tiny tot joke of a pilot compared to the original ALIEN. Of course, the scale of the Engineer is critical to the 'DNA' story of Prometheus: 'its us, its everything!'. But the irony is that Ridley Scott went to great lengths to portray the Space Jockey as a gargantuan skeleton melded to a machine in order to emphasise its alien-ness.
 
Ridley Scott said that he wanted to answer the question about 'who is the big guy on the chair?'.
ALIEN fans still await that answer.

ALIEN: The Space Jockey


PROMETHEUS: See that tiny pilot bloke sitting in the chair? - that's the Space Jockey that is!



Highland
Mar 10, 2013, 02:29:54 AM
Reply #259 on: Mar 10, 2013, 02:29:54 AM
Q
I'm not sure what's hard to understand about something that's eons old looking different from something that's not.

Understanding requires that you have at least a small clue as to what is going on, which you don't. Unless you can tell me precisely how old the base (and Juggernaut) on LV-223 is then you've got zip to support your argument other than what you have been handed: 'degradation'.

Quote
My favourite part is that both come from the same guy... :laugh:

Degradation is a bastard.

and you have nothing to support yours....?

Occams razor and all that jazz.



Well we know the facility on LV-223 is at least 2000 years old.

Well no, it has to be at least 50,000 years old or at least as old as the oldest painting found (which I think was the Scottish one).

EDIT: A quick search shows the Isle of Sky painting at 35020BCE

« Last Edit: Mar 10, 2013, 02:40:15 AM by Highland »

ChrisPachi
Mar 10, 2013, 12:17:56 PM
Reply #260 on: Mar 10, 2013, 12:17:56 PM
Q
and you have nothing to support yours....?

My argument is that without any evidence to the contrary they are the same type of ship and the same type of pilot, so discussions about their differences are relevant and (considering that this is a thread about the potential sequel) ripe for exploring. Your argument has been that while they are the same type of ship and the same type of pilot there is an immense amount of time separating them, so discussions about their differences can be easily explained away and are therefore irrelevant.

Quote
Occams razor and all that jazz.

When you've spotted the biggest assumption in this debate come drop another Occam's on me. ;D


DontRelaxJustYetMarines
Mar 10, 2013, 12:45:07 PM
Reply #261 on: Mar 10, 2013, 12:45:07 PM
Q
But... there's nothing that contradicts anything, story-wise. Some shit looks a bit different.

True. I guess it depends on how integral the nature of the original ship and its pilot are to your own view of the story. I would argue that they are deeply integral to the original film - Scott didn't have Giger on location making bone sets or have his kids wearing tiny spacesuits because it was cheap or easy - he did those things to communicate certain aspects of the ship and the Jockey, things that he has retconned in his new film. The only argument is whether you are OK with that or not.

I'm not. Sucks for me. ;D

Exactly.

The Prometheus Space Jockey gets scaled down to an embarrassing piss-poor space suit(!) containing a tall-ish bald bloke. Oh, and his genome is identical to modern humans - whatever the f**k thats supposed to mean? 

The 'Alien-Evolution' Blu-Ray cover sleeve tries embarrassingly hard to hide the fact that the Prometheus Space Jockey is a tiny tot joke of a pilot compared to the original ALIEN. Of course, the scale of the Engineer is critical to the 'DNA' story of Prometheus: 'its us, its everything!'. But the irony is that Ridley Scott went to great lengths to portray the Space Jockey as a gargantuan skeleton melded to a machine in order to emphasise its alien-ness.
 
Ridley Scott said that he wanted to answer the question about 'who is the big guy on the chair?'.
ALIEN fans still await that answer.

ALIEN: The Space Jockey


PROMETHEUS: See that tiny pilot bloke sitting in the chair? - that's the Space Jockey that is!


LOL That's a f**king abomination.  Worst retcon in the history of movies.  And what is those lights at the end of its big telescope/phallus thing?  Old age has seeped into Ridley Scott's brain.  He's just not the same person anymore.


Gazz
Mar 10, 2013, 12:54:06 PM
Reply #262 on: Mar 10, 2013, 12:54:06 PM
Q
But... there's nothing that contradicts anything, story-wise. Some shit looks a bit different.

True. I guess it depends on how integral the nature of the original ship and its pilot are to your own view of the story. I would argue that they are deeply integral to the original film - Scott didn't have Giger on location making bone sets or have his kids wearing tiny spacesuits because it was cheap or easy - he did those things to communicate certain aspects of the ship and the Jockey, things that he has retconned in his new film. The only argument is whether you are OK with that or not.

I'm not. Sucks for me. ;D

Exactly.

The Prometheus Space Jockey gets scaled down to an embarrassing piss-poor space suit(!) containing a tall-ish bald bloke. Oh, and his genome is identical to modern humans - whatever the f**k thats supposed to mean? 

The 'Alien-Evolution' Blu-Ray cover sleeve tries embarrassingly hard to hide the fact that the Prometheus Space Jockey is a tiny tot joke of a pilot compared to the original ALIEN. Of course, the scale of the Engineer is critical to the 'DNA' story of Prometheus: 'its us, its everything!'. But the irony is that Ridley Scott went to great lengths to portray the Space Jockey as a gargantuan skeleton melded to a machine in order to emphasise its alien-ness.
 
Ridley Scott said that he wanted to answer the question about 'who is the big guy on the chair?'.
ALIEN fans still await that answer.

ALIEN: The Space Jockey


PROMETHEUS: See that tiny pilot bloke sitting in the chair? - that's the Space Jockey that is!


 And what is those lights at the end of its big telescope/phallus thing?

I thought they had always been there.


Alien³
Mar 10, 2013, 01:13:42 PM
Reply #263 on: Mar 10, 2013, 01:13:42 PM
Q
LOL That's a f**king abomination.  Worst retcon in the history of movies.

The Space Jockey wasn't retconned in Prometheus.

Well no, it has to be at least 50,000 years old or at least as old as the oldest painting found (which I think was the Scottish one).

The painting yes, but that doesn't explain the age of the facility on LV-223. The only hint we get of that is the body of the Engineer that 2000 years old approx.

« Last Edit: Mar 10, 2013, 01:22:03 PM by Alien³ »

Highland
Mar 10, 2013, 01:51:29 PM
Reply #264 on: Mar 10, 2013, 01:51:29 PM
Q
and you have nothing to support yours....?

My argument is that without any evidence to the contrary they are the same type of ship and the same type of pilot, so discussions about their differences are relevant and (considering that this is a thread about the potential sequel) ripe for exploring. Your argument has been that while they are the same type of ship and the same type of pilot there is an immense amount of time separating them, so discussions about their differences can be easily explained away and are therefore irrelevant.


Well no, one ship housed eggs, one ship housed jars. It's a newer ship = it looks different?

Let's play devils advocate and both ships looked exactly they same. Are we to assume that the Jockey's f**ked up not once, but twice in the quest to wipe out humans? A bit far fetched even for sci fi mate....?  :D   

Quote
The painting yes, but that doesn't explain the age of the facility on LV-223. The only hint we get of that is the body of the Engineer that 2000 years old approx.

Dude. Think about what your saying. What is portrayed in the cave paintings???  ??? 

The paintings are pointing at the facility. Or of course it might be just a fluke.....  ??? :P


« Last Edit: Mar 10, 2013, 01:53:15 PM by Highland »

Alien³
Mar 10, 2013, 01:57:27 PM
Reply #265 on: Mar 10, 2013, 01:57:27 PM
Q
Quote
The painting yes, but that doesn't explain the age of the facility on LV-223. The only hint we get of that is the body of the Engineer that 2000 years old approx.

Dude. Think about what your saying. What is portrayed in the cave paintings???  ??? 

The paintings are pointing at the facility. Or of course it might be just a fluke.....  ??? :P

The paintings depict them visiting us and pointing the planet system that contains LV-223 I understand. But they also depict the Engineers being nice to us. Who's to say on LV-223 (at that point in history) the facility is even built? In that time anything could have been there. This is all pointless anyway.


DontRelaxJustYetMarines
Mar 10, 2013, 02:09:44 PM
Reply #266 on: Mar 10, 2013, 02:09:44 PM
Q
LOL That's a f**king abomination.  Worst retcon in the history of movies.

The Space Jockey wasn't retconned in Prometheus.

That looks like a retcon to me.  Visual proof.  Unless you want to argue that their complex society allows for that. 


Alien³
Mar 10, 2013, 02:25:29 PM
Reply #267 on: Mar 10, 2013, 02:25:29 PM
Q
LOL That's a f**king abomination.  Worst retcon in the history of movies.

The Space Jockey wasn't retconned in Prometheus.

That looks like a retcon to me.  Visual proof.  Unless you want to argue that their complex society allows for that.

Nope, I'll say this...

How do you know that the Space Jockey (seen in Alien) isn't the creator of the Engineers, who based their ships and technology on their creator? The only way the Space Jockey will ever be retconned is if Alien is remade and they change the design of the Space Jockey to look like the Engineer. I don't see that happening.

« Last Edit: Mar 10, 2013, 04:27:41 PM by Alien³ »

irn
Mar 10, 2013, 02:59:53 PM
Reply #268 on: Mar 10, 2013, 02:59:53 PM
Q
The only way the Space Jockey will ever be retconned is if Alien is remade and they change the design of the Space Jockey to look like the Engineer. I don't see that happening.

I agree with you. Another way could be if the derelict and Jockey on LV-426 from Alien is shown in a Prometheus sequel and is changed to look like the LV-223 ones.


Alien³
Mar 10, 2013, 03:05:50 PM
Reply #269 on: Mar 10, 2013, 03:05:50 PM
Q
The only way the Space Jockey will ever be retconned is if Alien is remade and they change the design of the Space Jockey to look like the Engineer. I don't see that happening.

I agree with you. Another way could be if the derelict and Jockey on LV-426 from Alien is shown in a Prometheus sequel and is changed to look like the LV-223 ones.

Exactly, which is why I don't understand this whole "ZOMFG Prometheus has ruined the Space Jockey!" business. The Space Jockey is still a mystery, and hopefully, always will be.

« Last Edit: Mar 10, 2013, 03:07:44 PM by Alien³ »

 

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