Damon Lindelof Paradise Script

Started by ikarop, Nov 14, 2012, 09:27:27 PM

Author
Damon Lindelof Paradise Script (Read 50,411 times)

Darth Vile

Darth Vile

#165
Quote from: SureSureSURE on Nov 26, 2012, 11:11:40 PM
It seems odd that most of the criticism here seems to be on the scientific accuracy or strange plot moves. I've got little problem with the plot, and smaller yet concern over the science behind the film. Alien was also ambiguous, which is why it is still so interesting today.
The issue with Lindelof's script is plainly the dialogue....it's atrocious in parts ("you can pay me...on the other side" - ugh). This pulled you back and snatched away any sense of realism. In my opinion the jarring cruddy conversations were far more damaging to the film than these scientific issues.

Even still...In my opinion it was a fine film....
I'd agree with that... However I'd posit that Scott/Lindelof were going for 'hyper-reality' rather than 'realistic'... hence some of that Star Trek type dialogue that doesn't sound like real people talking in a realistic way a la Alien.

ChrisPachi

ChrisPachi

#166
Quote from: Darth Vile on Nov 25, 2012, 10:46:58 PMNo - I'm pointing out that it's largely irrelevant to the masses of 'normal' moviegoers. Is the fact that Darth Vader takes a dissproprtionate amount of time to take a shot at Luke's X-Wing in the Death Star trench a massive script issue? Nope.

Gotcha, but Vader waxing lyrical before shooting Luke out of the sky is pretty much mandatory for a villain like that - screen villains have always done it, and for some baffling reason continue to do it. While Weyland's motives are clear in the end, there is still no presented weight behind his decision to follow Shaw's hunch, which would not of seemed like so much of a hunch if the script bothered with some basic setup. A good writer could of wound these things in without the kind of cumbersome exposition that Lindelof seems to hate so much. Five minutes, max.

And a lot of these gripes are not just fan gripes - they have come from all walks, we just care more.

Darth Vile

Darth Vile

#167
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Nov 27, 2012, 10:08:17 AM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Nov 25, 2012, 10:46:58 PMNo - I'm pointing out that it's largely irrelevant to the masses of 'normal' moviegoers. Is the fact that Darth Vader takes a dissproprtionate amount of time to take a shot at Luke's X-Wing in the Death Star trench a massive script issue? Nope.

Gotcha, but Vader waxing lyrical before shooting Luke out of the sky is pretty much mandatory for a villain like that - screen villains have always done it, and for some baffling reason continue to do it. While Weyland's motives are clear in the end, there is still no presented weight behind his decision to follow Shaw's hunch, which would not of seemed like so much of a hunch if the script bothered with some basic setup. A good writer could of wound these things in without the kind of cumbersome exposition that Lindelof seems to hate so much. Five minutes, max.

And a lot of these gripes are not just fan gripes - they have come from all walks, we just care more.
I hear what you are saying, but I just don't think an explanation as to why Weyland believed Shaw is necessary (even if done with minimal dialogue).... and it's certainly not a scripting issue IMHO, even if more exposition is desired. As mentioned before, from a narrative perspective, if we (the audience) did'nt get to see the Engineers at the start of the movie... then yes, the audience would need a modicum of understanding to clarify the driver for a multi billion $ mission into space. However, as we (the audience) already know Shaw is correct with her 'hunch' any further explanation of Weyland's reasons for believing her is moot.


ChrisPachi

ChrisPachi

#168
Quote from: Darth Vile on Nov 27, 2012, 11:39:13 AMHowever, as we (the audience) already know Shaw is correct with her 'hunch' any further explanation of Weyland's reasons for believing her is moot.

OK fine... One minute then? Thirty seconds? I don't choose the believe! :)

SureSureSURE

I don't really see him trusting or being convinced by Shaw etc as an issue. If it is too much of a stretch for us to go along with him being convinced by her scientific discovery and argument that's fine but it should also be recognised that, from my point of view, weyland is portrayed as being quite mad. It is more of the desperation for longer life that drives him rather than scientific or spiritual discovery, this is after all the most likely reason why the engineer kills him in the end.

zakzak

zakzak

#170
I have to admit some of the character motivations are plain bizarre. My guess is that the script had undergone so many changes & rewrites that nobody really know who and what anymore. There is a suggestion that Weyland has deeper connection to the Engineer's group. That Shaw & the crew are just experimental subjects not for Weyland but for the Engineers to fiddle with!

Another strange line of dialogue involves David saying" If we don't wear a suit, you people wouldn't be comfortable.." Now there is a lot parallel drawn between David & the Engineers, that they are servants for Higher Authority.That kind of line is too loaded to be thrown around before the most suspenseful part of the movie, the first trip to the temple. The Engineers themselves wear a suit, the elephantine suit, so that they look "agreeable" in the presence of the Higher Authority: the Ganesha/Giant Space Jockey of the original ALIEN.

Peakius Baragonius

Quote from: zakzak on Nov 27, 2012, 09:34:11 PM
I have to admit some of the character motivations are plain bizarre. My guess is that the script had undergone so many changes & rewrites that nobody really know who and what anymore. There is a suggestion that Weyland has deeper connection to the Engineer's group. That Shaw & the crew are just experimental subjects not for Weyland but for the Engineers to fiddle with!

Another strange line of dialogue involves David saying" If we don't wear a suit, you people wouldn't be comfortable.." Now there is a lot parallel drawn between David & the Engineers, that they are servants for Higher Authority.That kind of line is too loaded to be thrown around before the most suspenseful part of the movie, the first trip to the temple. The Engineers themselves wear a suit, the elephantine suit, so that they look "agreeable" in the presence of the Higher Authority: the Ganesha/Giant Space Jockey of the original ALIEN.

Nice theory ;) That's actually really interesting?

180924609

180924609

#172
To be honest, I love Lindelof's Paradise script!

Not because it makes any scientific or logical sense, no.

But, because...Life on Earth began in Scotland!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i05k9p_MMBg#

Space Jock.

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#173
Quote from: 180924609 on Nov 28, 2012, 07:39:14 PM
But, because...Life on Earth began in Scotland!
Yup. Valaquen first rose from the grounds.

ChrisPachi

ChrisPachi

#174
Quote from: 180924609 on Nov 28, 2012, 07:39:14 PMBut, because...Life on Earth began in Scotland!

As my gran-daddy always said: Remember your roooots boy!

Zenzucht

Zenzucht

#175
It's probably off-topic, but it does seems to me that the audiences are no longer able to figure the things out by themselves.. They want everything "on the golden plate", on-the-nose dialogue and show & tell scenes.

.. and that's the complete opposite of what the movies should be.

Deuterium

Deuterium

#176
Quote from: Zenzucht on Nov 30, 2012, 11:28:25 PM
It's probably off-topic, but it does seems to me that the audiences are no longer able to figure the things out by themselves.. They want everything "on the golden plate", on-the-nose dialogue and show & tell scenes.

.. and that's the complete opposite of what the movies should be.

Hi Zenzucht,

There exists wonderfuly provocative films of great subtlety, which contain intricate layers and meanings, and which motivate one's imagination to search for deeper meanings and messages.  Prometheus is NOT one of these films, IMHO.

Rather, it is an example of lame story-telling on the part of the writer(s), and poor execution on the part of the Director.  It is rife with plot-holes, inconsistent and non-sensical character behavior, ridiculous dialogue, and a fundamentally incoherent narrative that is built on a house of cards.  In sum...it is a complete and utter mess.  Again, IMHO.


Darth Vile

Darth Vile

#177
Quote from: Deuterium on Dec 01, 2012, 05:18:19 AM
Quote from: Zenzucht on Nov 30, 2012, 11:28:25 PM
It's probably off-topic, but it does seems to me that the audiences are no longer able to figure the things out by themselves.. They want everything "on the golden plate", on-the-nose dialogue and show & tell scenes.

.. and that's the complete opposite of what the movies should be.

Hi Zenzucht,

There exists wonderfuly provocative films of great subtlety, which contain intricate layers and meanings, and which motivate one's imagination to search for deeper meanings and messages. 
Not in the Alien franchise there isn't - IMHO.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#178
Quote from: Darth Vile on Dec 01, 2012, 04:02:57 PM
Not in the Alien franchise there isn't - IMHO.
Don't think many -if any- of them were reaching for this effect. Bar Prometheus.

Darth Vile

Darth Vile

#179
Quote from: Valaquen on Dec 01, 2012, 06:01:20 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Dec 01, 2012, 04:02:57 PM
Not in the Alien franchise there isn't - IMHO.
Don't think many -if any- of them were reaching for this effect. Bar Prometheus.
Not sure Prometheus was ever trying to be that... to be fair...

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