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Author Topic: Randy Pitchford Talks Aliens: Colonial Marines  (Read 31032 times)

Sully
May 06, 2012, 03:19:43 PM
Reply #30 on: May 06, 2012, 03:19:43 PM
There is no f**king atmosphere on LV-426, and there is no Hadleys hope.  Its back to Alien-status, that is to say, the derelict is there with no atmosphere.  Thats the whole f**king reason Dallas' crew were wearing space-suits.

And if my memory serves, the reason the pod was ejected from the Sullaco is because of acid causing a fire, clearly depicted in the opening credits of Alien3.


SpreadEagleBeagle
May 06, 2012, 03:21:00 PM
Reply #31 on: May 06, 2012, 03:21:00 PM
It depends on the hbo show.

Just because in alien 3 they "found God" doesn't mean I should magically start caring about these monsters (the cast). The one character besides ripley that was like able was Clemens, and they killed him midway.

HBO shows are usually teeming with "monsters" and "garbage" who more than not are the main-characters of each show. A perfect example here would be the HBO classic OZ, where every single character is more or less the worst that society and mankind created. Yet you cared for a lot of them because in the end they were only people with really fawked up lives trying to survive in a prison. And just as you started to understand and sympathize with some character, he was  killed by one of the inmates. All the nice prison guards and prison staff quit their job, got killed or were fired only to be replaced by some really sadistic and/or corrupt megalomaniac. That was an excellent show and I know that I'm not the only one who appreciated it.
 

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As for alien3 being a far better film then aliens, your are entitled to your own opinion. The alien 3 being called an underrated movie really annoys the hell out of me ;D

That was not a respond to your post but to Mechafist's post.

Well, it is an underrated movie no matter whether you love Alien 3 or hate it. The reason I say that is due to the kind of mass psychosis chain-reaction that entailed its release. The almost zealously negative criticism it received, at least here in the US, was out of proportion and the years of Alien 3 bashing that followed was just as ridiculous. I know a lot of people have grown up with Aliens and had their first proverbial non-sexual hard-on when they watched Aliens the first time (me included!), so by snuffing Hix n' N00t, nixing guns altogether, bringing back the solitaire Alien, which in this installation was hunting down bald Brits in a run-down prison facility, was like being bitch-slapped followed by a kick in the groin. The logical response to this was of course to declare that Alien 3 must be the worst movie ever made from the day it was shot all the way till the end of time! Of course times have changed and more and more people have started to realize that maybe it isn't as bad as Aliens fans and critics have wanted us to think. It is different than Aliens, yes, but that doesn't make it a bad movie, it just makes it a different movie.


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Alien and aliens are considered by many, fans and just general movie goers, as instant classics both highly rated. Alien 3 is not. Not by a long shot.

Well, general movie goers want some good old Hollywood entertainment and that's about it. What I'm saying is that the general movie goer would rate the Transformers movies higher than let's say Eric Rohmer's Six Moral Tales...

Aliens is highly rated, yes, and Alien 3 not so much. The reason behind this is that Cameron is Hollywood's golden boy - everybody loves his stuff - yeah! He knows exactly what fans and the general movie goers want, and here comes his true skill - he knows how to merge the two into movies that are indeed super commercial action movies that don't feel cheap and derivative, something that Michael Bay and Bruckheimer never will be able to do. Kudos to Cameron!


[/quote]Oh yeah, it has some really great moments. But when someone dies, I just don't care, at all. Which is sad, because in my opinion, you should care about the cast of characters.[/quote]

I have the same problem with Aliens as well - I don't care when the marines die. The only person I cared for, except for Ripley, was Bishop the robot.


SM
May 06, 2012, 11:07:46 PM
Reply #32 on: May 06, 2012, 11:07:46 PM
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Its back to Alien-status, that is to say, the derelict is there with no atmosphere.  Thats the whole f**king reason Dallas' crew were wearing space-suits.


The AP station blowing up isn't instantly going to undo 20 years worth of terraforming.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 12:34:54 AM by SM »

Iceycold
May 06, 2012, 11:35:19 PM
Reply #33 on: May 06, 2012, 11:35:19 PM
Bless him, Pitchford really does talk shit when he opens his mouth.

One minute he's trying desperately to convince us that Duke Nukem was an excellent game.
It wasn't.

Then he's saying that this game is canon on the level of the Alien movies.
It's not.

Then he's saying that Ridley Scott's Prometheus isn't in the same canon.
It is; Scott publicly stated that the film wasn't a prequel (by some definitions, I assume he means) but would take place in the same universe.

As for making Alien 3 a better movie...you'd have to give it a different opening, introduce sympathetic characters, and lose the grim, emo, immature nihilism that forms the bedrock of the film.
...unlikely.



Predaker
May 07, 2012, 01:29:13 AM
Reply #35 on: May 07, 2012, 01:29:13 AM
Bless him, Pitchford really does talk shit when he opens his mouth.

One minute he's trying desperately to convince us that Duke Nukem was an excellent game.
It wasn't.

Then he's saying that this game is canon on the level of the Alien movies.
It's not.

Then he's saying that Ridley Scott's Prometheus isn't in the same canon.
It is; Scott publicly stated that the film wasn't a prequel (by some definitions, I assume he means) but would take place in the same universe.

As for making Alien 3 a better movie...you'd have to give it a different opening, introduce sympathetic characters, and lose the grim, emo, immature nihilism that forms the bedrock of the film.
...unlikely.

The game is canon because FOX says it is, not because of anything Randy Pitchford said.

Alien3 is emo? :laugh:


Xenomrph
May 07, 2012, 02:25:01 AM
Reply #36 on: May 07, 2012, 02:25:01 AM
And in all my years I've never heard 'Alien3' referred to as "immature".

First time for everything I guess.


Barringer
May 07, 2012, 02:34:30 AM
Reply #37 on: May 07, 2012, 02:34:30 AM
I think the concept of canonicity or whatever that has become increasingly prevalent over the past twenty or so years has become really harmful to narrative. I don't think it really matters one way or another whether ACM is "canon" unless Fox is planning to make another Alien film which takes place after Aliens/Alien 3 and is mutually exclusive with ACM. Otherwise, what difference does it make, except for fan arguments?


Xenomrph
May 07, 2012, 03:26:36 AM
Reply #38 on: May 07, 2012, 03:26:36 AM
Ultimately it doesn't. Some people like it when stuff they enjoy is "canon", for other people it doesn't matter because they'll decide for themselves what is/is not canon anyway.


Barringer
May 07, 2012, 03:42:10 AM
Reply #39 on: May 07, 2012, 03:42:10 AM
I think that's why the concept of canon is harmful... people place value on stories based upon their perceived or actual canonicity rather than their merit.

I find that in many storytelling universes, stories that I think of as "good" aren't always the ones that are canon, and the ones that are canon are sometimes "bad," and I wish canon was based more upon merit than more arbitrary reasons, or at least that canon was more aligned with my choice of good stories. I think it's mostly unfortunate when a story that is considered canon is really destructive with the sandbox -- it takes the toys off the shelf and breaks them. I think that's part of the reason why Alien 3 is so polarizing.

I prefer to think of each story as its own universe, with the influence of other stories only extending as far as the story permits. It's the optimal way to enjoy each story on its own. But I don't deny that there is a desire to categorize stories as existing as part of a cycle/saga/series.


SM
May 07, 2012, 03:56:35 AM
Reply #40 on: May 07, 2012, 03:56:35 AM
Problem with including stories in a canon based on 'merit' or if they're 'good' is that it's too subjective.

What's really needed is for stories to be commissioned to fit within the existing established framework and continuity - and hopefully be good as well.

That generally doesn't happen with Alien.


Fujimaster
May 07, 2012, 04:15:40 AM
Reply #41 on: May 07, 2012, 04:15:40 AM
No. This in no way will make alien 3 "better". Nothing will ever make a movie about a bunch of pathetic prisoners better. Maybe it will clear up a few things about the beggining, and that's all fine and dandy, but it still won't make it better.

If someone said to me, "hey, we are going to release a monster into a prison loaded with a bunch of murders and rapists and your supposed to care about the people", I would have replied with, "go ahead, I'll enjoy watching garbage die, but I don't care one bit about them". 

Somehow, it's still better then resurrection.

But to get back on topic, I am still looking forward to the game, but I have a bad feeling it will be mediocre like the last avp game.  As for explaining the egg from alien 3, it will be interesting to see how that is handled.

But what about 85? He's got a wife, a kid! He goes home on the next rotation.


Barringer
May 07, 2012, 04:18:20 AM
Reply #42 on: May 07, 2012, 04:18:20 AM
Problem with including stories in a canon based on 'merit' or if they're 'good' is that it's too subjective.

What's really needed is for stories to be commissioned to fit within the existing established framework and continuity - and hopefully be good as well.

That generally doesn't happen with Alien.

Well, my familiarity with the Alien franchise doesn't expand beyond the films -- I read the Perry trilogy a long time ago and I don't remember it beyond a very general understanding of the plot and I played a few of the AVP games but I don't remember their stories at all -- but I suppose I agree that the films themselves haven't been very respectful toward the intent of their predecessor for the purpose of storytelling opportunity, whether it be the queen alien or the deaths of Hicks and Newt.

As for merit being subjective -- I think in franchises that there are certain stories that are pretty well regarded by most, if not all. A way to approach any established franchise and set up an agreeable canon, IMO, would be to make those stories canon, and exclude the others.

Like I mentioned at the end of the second paragraph of my prior post, I think the biggest issue in any franchise is the story that takes the toys off the shelf and breaks them. Denying Hicks and Newt for future stories is asinine when you can easily write your way around it (they were put on a different EEV that doesn't crash on Fury 161). Does the emotional poignance of their deaths outweigh future storytelling potential? I don't think so. Perhaps it's a mistake on my part to be placing a higher premium on characters than the horror genre allows. But despite that I think it could have been done better. Alan Dean Foster found a way to save Newt while making her a non-factor in the overall story, and since they paid Biehn a similar salary as he received for Aliens, they could have had him come back for his character to die on-screen.

I know that in another SF franchise, the Star Wars Expanded Universe, my participation was severely reduced when they opted to similarly kill off a rather important character for the sake of a specific plotline. This type of storytelling makes me prefer there was no sense of canon because now future stories are denied access to the character.


SM
May 07, 2012, 04:39:10 AM
Reply #43 on: May 07, 2012, 04:39:10 AM
I can't honestly see them writing off the main source material - ie. the films - in order to accommodate novels and video games.

Fox have gone this long not caring about continuity and short of Prometheus doing Avatar style business, I can't imagine that changing any time soon.


Barringer
May 07, 2012, 04:48:44 AM
Reply #44 on: May 07, 2012, 04:48:44 AM
I can't honestly see them writing off the main source material - ie. the films - in order to accommodate novels and video games.

Fox have gone this long not caring about continuity and short of Prometheus doing Avatar style business, I can't imagine that changing any time soon.

I don't think that would happen or change either, but my desire prior to Prometheus coming to fruition was to see a Superman Returns style film reboot in which a sequel to Aliens is made in the same vein, and you could bring back Biehn and recast Newt. Other than that, you're stuck with Ripley-8 and Call and I think fans of the franchise are more invested in Hicks and Newt than them. Who knows if Sigourney would go for that type of thing also, and return as Ripley post-Aliens sans Fury-161.

At this point I don't care, although I'd be interested to see if Prometheus would feed the Alien mythos to allow more storytelling opportunities there. Despite all the talk about ACM's creators seeing the script to Prometheus, I have to wonder how much influence, if any, Prometheus has had on ACM. I think it would be infinitely more interesting if the separate threads of the Colonial Marines and the Space Jockeys came together through the Colonial Marines' investigation of the events on LV-426, rather than what I think it will be, which is that Prometheus informed ACM's usage of the derelict. Or at least have perhaps some other bioweapons in the derelict that create different creatures than the xenomorph.

But if Fox doesn't care about canon, why should we?


 

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