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Author Topic: DNA assimilation  (Read 5073 times)

Eidotemit
Jan 23, 2007, 02:45:25 PM
Topic on: Jan 23, 2007, 02:45:25 PM
Q
As we've seen, the aliens take some of the characteristics from their host, but how much does it change them?

I think that it would affect size and some characteristics of the face, but not much else, nor behavior.

The runner alien from A3 was born of an ox (or dog depending on the version you watch, I like the SE better so im goin with ox, it doesnt matter anyway) and clearly was much different that the aliens we've seen before. However, I believe the majority of the differance was less to do with the species that bore it, but the type it was. It was born of a special 'queen' facehugger that birthed two aliens, a queen and the runner, perhaps it moved and acted different as a result of its job in the society being to ensure a safe birth for the queen.

Reasons for this? First, the hands. The hands developed in the same 4 finger fassion as all the other aliens (I know, it was six in A3, but I've just started counting as four since the new ones and if you count the conjoined fingers as a single digit, each alien from each film all had four fingers, avoiding a small and stupid plot-hole). The oxs hoof (or dogs paw) had no affect on this. This is just on example of how its clear the aliens have characteristics that are predetermined.

Further more the runner was without the dorsal spines. There is nothing in humans to justify that as a trait aquired from human DNA, so it is a trait of the aliens. However the runner was without, and since they are not from the hosts DNA it supports the notion that the different look and behavior was less because of the different species and more with it being a special type of alien.

Its clear that there is some assimilation that hapens during gestation, Im not disputing that at all, just the degree of change from host to host. Im hoping that the PredAlien that will surely be in AvP2 will have little different to it beyond a larger size, stronger, and the mandibles (i.e.: I hope they dont give it a smaller head and dreads ala the video games. I also hope its going to act with the rest of the aliens and behave like them, for the most part, not be a rouge alien going against both species)

« Last Edit: Jan 23, 2007, 06:00:04 PM by Eidotemit »

AtR
Jan 23, 2007, 02:51:55 PM
Reply #1 on: Jan 23, 2007, 02:51:55 PM
Q
I like the idea of a safe birth for the Queen. Sounds true enough.


Meathead320
Jan 30, 2007, 10:48:51 PM
Reply #2 on: Jan 30, 2007, 10:48:51 PM
Q
I tend to think that the way it works is not uniform. It will vary a lot depending on the species.

Putting an actual scientific prediction on it sounds impossible, as we are trying to understand alien DNA. For all we know the “Blue Print Particles” in their body’s are not even technically DNA.

That is how ALIEN they could be to us, so this would be very hard to predict in future generations of Aliens.

They may have environmental changes as well. Color of their background environment may alter their appearance like a chameleon. Look at the environments in the different movies.

A1: Lots of dark mechanical places, blackish grey alien.
A2: similar to the mechanical looking environment of A1, similar color scheme.
A3: Brown color all over, brown Alien,
A4: Mutation, but they did seem to reflect the iron color backgrounds a lot too, brown again. Keep in mind these ones were contaminated with too much human DNA.

AVP: dark Bluish pyramid, Dark Black, with slight tint of blue aliens.

OR this change may be totally due to something else, moisture levels etc...

We just do not know.

Now if lets say there was a world of Giants, with a facehugger susceptible organ, it would be logical that the adult aliens here would be equally gigantic. Probably even bigger than their host. It would make sense that they try to keep a size advantage over whatever their host species is.
            This is one of the reasons why I consider the theatrical version of A3 to be cannon. If the aliens failed to pick up the trait of giant size on a world of Giants, than they are going to turn into smoldering piles of squishy acidic plop.

Some of the EU, such as AVP extinction says that only the regular adults can pick up host traits, but Queens are pure DNA. This is not cannon and just an assumption.

Now Going by the way the Queen looks and her function, I think that is reasonably safe to assume, or at least she mimics FAR LESS traits from her host. . The one in AVP was just fully grown, that is why she looked a little different, was more sturdy and bigger. To be conservative I am going to assume her host was human.

I for one assume the Queen’s DNA (if that is even what it is), is about 99.9% pure, and that her overall size may still be affected by host type, but nothing more, and she would always pass on the full 99.9% of pure alien DNA to next generation Queens, which would still keep the purity. The reason to have her size be affected by host type is so that she keeps her relative size advantage as compared to any species world that she may be forced to fight for her life on. Even on a world of Giants.

This is the whole reason why even having a mild bit of DNA assimilation. To be able to survive on the world of, and hunt for your host species.

Could it be that there is no such thing as a full strand of alien DNA, except what is in the facehuggers? Maybe without any host DNA at all that is what the alien is.

So 80% of the what an adult alien is, and 99.9% of what a Queen is, are the only predetermined parts, and that is the DNA that is passed on to further generations.

Successive generations would just fill in those 20% and .1% gaps respectively, with whatever their host species DNA was, and so on.

This way there is always a consistent look to the aliens, no watering down of DNA etc...

Or maybe there are no DNA gaps at all? Maybe they all have pure DNA, but the phenotype is affected by the host. The part of DNA that is passed on would always be there, but it assembles itself into specific phenotype by mimicking the host DNA pattern.

In the end they are ALIENS, so we just don’t know. I kind of like the mystery of it, and would prefer no exact math is ever put forth as cannon.


Eidotemit
Jan 30, 2007, 10:54:21 PM
Reply #3 on: Jan 30, 2007, 10:54:21 PM
Q
Im right there with ya on that aliens may have a slight skin pigment ability to blend with their background for the very reasons you listed. Also that their size would be affected by the host. Im not suggesting that aliens are pure and will look like what weve seen no matter what the host, just that there is less assimilation than what tend to be the general opinion.

That the Ox (or dog) alien looked more the way it did because it was a special type of alien from the Queen Facehugger to protect the gestating queen, than because of its host, not to say the host didnt play a part.


Meathead320
Jan 30, 2007, 11:03:00 PM
Reply #4 on: Jan 30, 2007, 11:03:00 PM
Q
True. We never see in the movie weather or not the alien is truly killing its victims either. I mean a lot of blood loss etc... but who knows there could be a coagulant in the alien’s saliva that keeps a potential host alive, even in a messed up way.
           This way even after a nasty head bite, the victim, although brain dead, or lobotomized would still be alive for a host.

The A3 alien may have even been starting a nest somewhere with missing inmates on the walls, just waiting for the Queen’s eggs once they start hatching.

I tend to think the Alien in A3 was not the brightest bulb in the box, so to speak, as it should have just kidnapped Ripley, taker her and restrained her on the wall. Hid her from the inmates, and then just waited.



Darkness
Jan 30, 2007, 11:07:25 PM
Reply #5 on: Jan 30, 2007, 11:07:25 PM
Q
Quote
That the Ox (or dog) alien looked more the way it did because it was a special type of alien from the Queen Facehugger to protect the gestating queen, than because of its host, not to say the host didnt play a part.

I never thought of the Super Facehugger angle. I just assumed the characteristics from the runner was down to it being a hybrid. From the dog. Faster, more agile and would have been like that regardless of what type of Facehugger it was.


Eidotemit
Jan 30, 2007, 11:07:59 PM
Reply #6 on: Jan 30, 2007, 11:07:59 PM
Q
maybe it felt it was safer to let her roam free in case she got killed resisting? Who knows. Maybe it was always just around, watching and waiting, protecing her, in a way.

good idea though about the coagulent in the saliva, cause their wounds in any movie would have made them bleed out. I thought that it was hiving them somewhere too.


I never thought of the Super Facehugger angle. I just assumed the characteristics from the runner was down to it being a hybrid. From the dog. Faster, more agile and would have been like that regardless of what type of Facehugger it was.

It very well could be, but since it was a special type of facehugger its possible it was a special alien that would clear the way and get ready for the queen. My theory works best when using the SE as canon as the alien was born of an ox and not a dog, since it compares little to an ox. Since the Queen Facehugger is only in the SE (and it is a much better version all together IMO) I use it as the canon version.

« Last Edit: Jan 30, 2007, 11:12:11 PM by Eidotemit »

SM
Jan 30, 2007, 11:15:54 PM
Reply #7 on: Jan 30, 2007, 11:15:54 PM
Q
Quote
I just assumed the characteristics from the runner was down to it being a hybrid. From the dog.

That was the original intent.  Going right back to O'Bannon and Scott on Alien, and echoed by Fincher on Alien3.

« Last Edit: Jan 30, 2007, 11:28:15 PM by SM »

Darkness
Jan 30, 2007, 11:17:19 PM
Reply #8 on: Jan 30, 2007, 11:17:19 PM
Q
It very well could be, but since it was a special type of facehugger its possible it was a special alien that would clear the way and get ready for the queen. My theory works best when using the SE as canon as the alien was born of an ox and not a dog, since it compares little to an ox. Since the Queen Facehugger is only in the SE (and it is a much better version all together IMO) I use it as the canon version.

I still consider the theatrical to be the canon one. It makes more sense that it came from a dog because of the speed. Ox's aren't very fast.  :P

Will definitely be interesting to see how the Predalien in AvP2 changes your theory about hybrids.


Eidotemit
Jan 30, 2007, 11:22:01 PM
Reply #9 on: Jan 30, 2007, 11:22:01 PM
Q
It makes more sense if you dont subscribe to my theory  ;D

but ya, as long as they dont change too much I think I could keep it reasonable, but I doubt it. I've already preped myself to see some freak alien with dreads, and a more rotund head and whatever else.

Im betting htough, it will bury this theory o' mine


Meathead320
Jan 30, 2007, 11:30:31 PM
Reply #10 on: Jan 30, 2007, 11:30:31 PM
Q
As much as I really love the SE of A3, I have to consider the theatrical version cannon, because that is the one that most people who have seen the movie remember.

If I called any one I know who is not as big of an alien fan as I, who has seen the movie, and if I ask them what was the host of the A3 alien, they would say “a dog”.

Actually they would say “I thought you were a big fan of those movies, should you already know, it was a DOG”.

I think that the reason Fincher wanted to switch the Ox bursting scene with the Rottweiler, is that the end resulted adult alien resembled a dog far more than an ox. Not to mention the size.

Assuming it did use an OX for a host, I would have expected maybe hoofed hind feet, and possible horns coming out of the sides of a comparatively even longer head, an even longer tail, longer jaws, a scary ass sort of a “Minotaur alien”.

The Leadworks would have been its Labyrinth. Man if they would have had the bidget to do that!

If done with a bit of class I think that would have been cool as all hell.

They would still have to be respectful of the design enough for it to have looked alien, and not having picked up more bovine traits than a human hosted one gets human traits.

I would NOT want it to look like a carbon copy of the Hasbro Bull alien. More of a reworking of the same concept though. That thing looked dumb (just my opinion) because no thought was put into its design.

I mean if a dog hosted alien can walk bipedal than so should a Ox hosted one. It should at least have front “hands” like a normal alien, as regular alien hands don’t really look all that human. The tail should be even longer, as an ox has a lot more of a tail than a human has.

The thing could have been almost as big as the A2 Queen (NOT T-Rex sized Queen like in AVP), but faster and more flexible/agile.

That is what I would expect from an OX.


SM
Jan 30, 2007, 11:40:46 PM
Reply #11 on: Jan 30, 2007, 11:40:46 PM
Q
Quote
I think that the reason Fincher wanted to switch the Ox bursting scene with the Rottweiler, is that the end resulted adult alien resembled a dog far more than an ox. Not to mention the size.

It was down to the ox burster scene being sub par as detailed on the Quad DVDs.  Fincher contradicts himself over the issue of Spike - has has mocked the suggestion "Oh I know!  Let's make it come out of a dog!" and also supported it saying it helped explain the Alien's extra viciousness.  There was some resistance in some quarters due to similarities with The Thing.


Eidotemit
Jan 30, 2007, 11:52:25 PM
Reply #12 on: Jan 30, 2007, 11:52:25 PM
Q
This is what I made this originally to support just how much the alien takes from the host. If it was an ox, it would have had hoofed feet, or horns. Also if it were to have hoofed feet, why would it also not have paw like feet? That it was a roty, it made it more vicious. It possible, but first I dont support that the host has weigt on the mentality and furiocity of the alien, at their core they are the same. If the ox was the host it would havehad horns, but horns are the same type of thing s hair biologically, so it shoud have had fur if it were from a dog in this case.

Another reason I count the SE as canon, is every other SE is taken as such, why not A3. Its built into the minds of people that The Dragon was a dog alien, because its been called that for so long and the SE was only released recently.

My basic point is that aliens at their core are the same as other aliens, and have characteristics that will be shared by other aliens regardless of the host that bore them. Im not disputing that they do take from the host, as that is very very very clear, just the degree of which it affects them.


SM
Jan 31, 2007, 12:02:09 AM
Reply #13 on: Jan 31, 2007, 12:02:09 AM
Q
Quote
Another reason I count the SE as canon, is every other SE is taken as such, why not A3.

In my experience the only SE usually taken as canon is Aliens.  The rest are all over the place as to what people regard as canon.  Also the directors of Alien, Aliens and Resurrection (and JPJ has stated his SE is not a directors cut and that the theatrical version is the directors cut; Scott said the same for close on 2 decades as well) all had a hand in putting their SE's or DC's together.  Fincher had nothing to do with Alien3s and in fact his Workprint ditches Babe in favour of Spike.

Quote
Also if it were to have hoofed feet, why would it also not have paw like feet?

Do humans have four thumbs?

« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2007, 12:05:25 AM by SM »

Meathead320
Jan 31, 2007, 01:19:28 AM
Reply #14 on: Jan 31, 2007, 01:19:28 AM
Q
So Fincher considers the theatrical version to be cannon, that is just one more reason for it to be so.

Even though I too like the SE better. But the DNA assimilation does make more sense that the A3 Alien was a dog hosted alien.

I have a feeling that the Pred-Alien in AVP2 will support this notion.

Assuming the theatrical version of A3 is cannon, then I assume size and general preferred locomotion are a given. Aliens hosted by Predators resulting with mandibles is also now known

Like I said earlier; there may be no absolute pattern to the way the aliens assimilate DNA for all host species.

Maybe there is a "set in stone" pattern for a particular species of host, but a new species of host may get you an unpredictable result; when comparing its result to other, already known, host breeds.

« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2007, 01:25:37 AM by Meathead320 »

 

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