Why do people hate Alien3?

Started by Basher917, Oct 30, 2011, 05:06:06 PM

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Why do people hate Alien3? (Read 237,992 times)

StrangeShape

StrangeShape

#885
Well, Alien was a a story that has been told numerous times before. spacehsip getting a signal on distance planet, landing to investigate, parasite getting onboard, killing them one after another, no weapons, ending with monster being blown into space. But its about HOW you tell the story that makes the difference

TheMonolith

TheMonolith

#886
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Mar 14, 2012, 06:45:41 PM
Said 'some' to play it safe; I have never seen Halloween.
That, and Myers got 'blown out of the goddamn airlock'?

;D
Both movies end with the monster getting shot by a projectile weapon and falling out of a door, and that is the last you see of them. At the end of Halloween, Michael gets shot by a revolver and falls out of a door and off a balcony. In Alien, the alien gets harpooned out the airlock door and out into space.
Even several of the shots in these scenes are virturally identical.
That is just the beginning of the similarities of the climax.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#887
Alien's climax however was scripted before Halloween was written, filmed, or released. Serendipitous similarities, on that one.

TheMonolith

TheMonolith

#888
Really?
Suprising. A point by point break down really shows how close the two endings are.
And when I say close. I mean really close.

1, male and female characters wander off alone
(Bob and Lynda in Halloween, Parker and Lambert in Alien)

2, the male is killed first when the monster picks them up and dispatches them

3, the female is killed second.

4, the main character hears the female killed over a speaker system
(a speaker phone in Halloween, the loud speaker in Alien)

5, goes to their location to see if they are okay
(across the street in Halloween and down the hall in Alien)

6, and finds their bodies positioned in a macabre manner.
(In a bedroom in Halloween, in the coolant room in Alien)

7, the character rushes to escape the carnage
(back across the street in Halloween and to the shuttle in Alien)

8, only for the monster to confront them
(hiding behind a couch in Halloween, standing at the airlock in Alien)

9, and suffer a false death.
(a sewing pin to the neck in Halloween, the Nostromo explosion in Alien)

10, thinking everything is over, the main character lets down their guard, only to be confronted by the monster who was hiding in plain sight.
(Walking up the stairs in Halloween, hiding in the pipes in Alien)

11, the main character hides in a closet

12, and uses the contents of the closet to defend herself
(a coat hanger in Halloween and a harpoon gun in Alien)

13, and the monster is shot out of a door, ending the film.

StrangeShape

StrangeShape

#889
Hmm

Valaquen

Valaquen

#890
Quote from: TheMonolith on Mar 14, 2012, 07:57:38 PM
Really?
Suprising. A point by point break down really shows how close the two endings are.
Really. It's an interesting coincidence. Alien's first draft was finished in 1975, and the ending didn't really change at all from there until its final draft and filming, except that in the final film Ripley isn't sucked out of the airlock with the Alien and made to do battle with it before climbing back inside the shuttle - and that sequence was dropped for time and budget reasons.

TheMonolith

TheMonolith

#891
Another thing that caused me to make the connection was that O'Bannon and Carpenter had worked together before.
They were good friends in film school and made Dark Star as their big debut. Carpenter directed, O'Bannon wrote and starred in it.
I figured, being old pals, they may have met up and bounced ideas off of each other. Filmmakers do that all the time.
Given the close relationship of the two, I find it harder to believe that the similarities in the final acts of both films are coincidence.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#892
Allegedly they didn't talk much post-Dark Star. There was a fall out of sorts. There's interview segments of O'Bannon dissing Carpenter to some degree.
Even if they did talk, which they apparently didn't do, correlation does not imply causation. It's better to find out if the writers/directors make the connection explicit themselves.

TheMonolith

TheMonolith

#893
Had no idea about that.
Carpenter was very complimentary of Alien and spoke highly of it in the commentary for The Thing, and O'Bannon never gave an inkling of any ill will when mentioning Dark Star in the Alien docos I have seen.
But it is clear you have looked into this more than I have.
Despite the uncanny similarities to the final acts of these movies, it looks like you are right.

Would have loved to see that space suit scene.

Cvalda

Cvalda

#894
Carpenter said in a DARK STAR interview that he didn't work with O'Bannon again because O'Bannon was too controlling and demanded too much control for Carpenter's taste.

Eva

Eva

#895
There's also the fact that some major changes were made to Dan O'Bannons original script by Giler and Hill and then studio head Alan Ladd jr - changes that remained in the final film. I don't think O'Bannon had much influence with editing, pacing, framing, mood, design and other vital and memorable parts of the film experience that would eventually become Alien. That was basically Ridley and his crew etc. Not trying to diminish O'Bannons role and his fantastic original story...  :)

I would love to see Carpenter back to his 80s abilities and sensibilities again. Pretty much every film I've seen of his from the last 2 decades, have been underwhelming to put it mildly. Such a shame....

TheMonolith

TheMonolith

#896
Except for In the Mouth of Madness, easily his best film from the 90s and one of my personal favorite Carpenter films.

StrangeShape

StrangeShape

#897
Quote from: Eva on Mar 14, 2012, 09:43:02 PM
There's also the fact that some major changes were made to Dan O'Bannons original script by Giler and Hill and then studio head Alan Ladd jr - changes that remained in the final film. I don't think O'Bannon had much influence with editing, pacing, framing, mood, design and other vital and memorable parts of the film experience that would eventually become Alien. That was basically Ridley and his crew etc. Not trying to diminish O'Bannons role and his fantastic original story...  :)

I would love to see Carpenter back to his 80s abilities and sensibilities again. Pretty much every film I've seen of his from the last 2 decades, have been underwhelming to put it mildly. Such a shame....
[/quote

Actually Obannon was on the set all the time and was closely working with Ridley. Obannon was there through pre and production

First Blood

First Blood

#898
Quote from: TheMonolith on Mar 14, 2012, 09:47:21 PM
Except for In the Mouth of Madness, easily his best film from the 90s and one of my personal favorite Carpenter films.

The 90s also brought about the return of Snake Plissken in a rather disappointing and long awaited sequel. Although I was always a fan of the rather short Bruce Campbell – Dr. Frankenstein subtext from that movie. :(

Salt The Fries

Salt The Fries

#899
To me, In The Mouth of Madness was - ultimately - average. It had some individual clever ideas and the concept was nice, but there were also some cliches present there and the whole movie had B-movie feel to it. It ended up being a genre movie. And while I think They Live also had B-movie feel to it, it was better than it. I'd agree with Eva.

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