Why do people hate Alien3?

[First Blood]

The Lost World being another fine example.

[SM]

It's rare that characters are as faceless as in Alien3.  Making them all bald isn't going to make them recognisable, and making them criminals isn't going to endear them very much. Therefore we're not going to care when they inevitably get offed by the Alien.

Heres where I personally dont really know an answer as to why the movie is disliked. Here are the most common arguments:

1. They killed Hicks and Newt
Thats a part of the story but doesnt make the movie a bad one. Sure, we bonded with the characters and didnt like the sight of them dying in a horrible crash, but thats part of the story and mood setter for this installment in the series. Plus, it presented a new challenge for Ripley, who lost everything twice by then and became completely drained.

2. Its too depressing
Again, it doesnt make a movie good or bad, it just a type of story. Depressing does not equal bad, nor does it equal good, its personal preference

3. faceless characters
I believe the characters that actually contribute to the story are fleshed out very well, which is a great accomplishment because theyre all bald and dressed the same way, yet its their personality that makes them distinctive. Morse, David, Golic, Dillon and on and on. The alien meat is faceless, but with so many prisoners why would we want everyone fleshed out?

4. magic egg
Lets not kid ourselves, the egg is there cause the movie needed an alien. As to how it got there or why in such position or where it was, look- its a movie, I know the first two took a great care in details but its no crime at all to take some cinematic liberties for storytelling purposes

You DO know the answer, because you've just provided them.

You might be able to rationalise/ ignore poor storytelling, but others can't or won't.  Hence the reason they don't like it.

It's pretty simple.

[StrangeShape]

3. faceless characters
I believe the characters that actually contribute to the story are fleshed out very well, which is a great accomplishment because theyre all bald and dressed the same way, yet its their personality that makes them distinctive. Morse, David, Golic, Dillon and on and on. The alien meat is faceless, but with so many prisoners why would we want everyone fleshed out?

In a movie like this, there are always going to be characters there just to fill in the numbers and are more or less there to get killed off. Happens in a lot of films, good and bad.

Right, exactly. there has to be a canon fodder in every movie that features more than a few characters

You DO know the answer, because you've just provided them.

You might be able to rationalise/ ignore poor storytelling, but others can't or won't.  Hence the reason they don't like it.

It's pretty simple.

But none of them are an example of poor storytelling. perhaps the circumstances of the appearance of the eggs are, but all the other one are just a matter of taste or agreeing with decisions within the story, not poor storytelling

[QuantumSheep]

Well, trying to flesh out every prisoner would require a four hour film.

[StrangeShape]

Well, trying to flesh out every prisoner would require a four hour film.

And would be pointless, considering that those were just story extras for alien to have someone to kill

[QuantumSheep]

I think they call them "Redshirts".

[SM]

No one is suggesting you need to flesh out every prisoner.  Alien3 did enough with the principal and supporting characters (Ripley, Clemens, Dillon, Andrews, Aaron, Morse and maybe throw in Golic depending on the version).  Clemens and Andrews are dead by the half way point, and no one liked Andrews anyway.  The others all survived until the climax.  Meaning we have nearly 20 deaths of people we can't tell apart and wouldn't care for if we could and therefore they don't have any real emotional impact.  They needed something to make them all different.  Even if it's only very slightly.  Can most people remember Wierzbowski?  No - but at least they remember the name.  Frost, Dietrich, Drake, Apone - all were just meatbags like the prisoners.  But they each got a moment here and there to endear them to the audience.

Boggs and Rains had an early scene with Golic - next time we see them they die.  Murphy gets a scene with Frank/ Spike - next scene he dies.  None of these characters are especially likeable.  Compare it to someone like Dillon - people cared when he bought it, and it wasn't just because his extra melanin set him apart.

But none of them are an example of poor storytelling. perhaps the circumstances of the appearance of the eggs are, but all the other one are just a matter of taste or agreeing with decisions within the story, not poor storytelling

That's just one aspect.

If your whole premise is terribly contrived and has extremely big consequences - it's going to piss people off and you need to work hard to get them back.  Instead Fincher went the other way and pissed them off even more.  A lot of people hated it at the time, and still hate it today.

I don't why others pretend they can't understand this.

[Hudson]

My head's in a whirlwind right now, only partly because I've had a few.

On these characters being faceless: Alien 3 is the closest to a slasher film that any of the Alien films are I think, and I can still distinguish all the bald British guys easier than anyone in any Jason, Freddy, or Michael movie.

On people hating Alien 3: Tell it to someone who's never heard anyone "preach it brother!" like you have. (and use parenthesis less in your posts, jesus!)

On Ripley demanding the cremation: Ripley doesn't know shit about Aliens. Yeah I'll type that again if you want. Ripley witnessed nothing but a little monster coming out of Kane in Alien. That's it. Other than that she got raped by a robot, saw a couple dead bodies, and blew the Alien out the airlock. After that she sat in a big car while a bunch of people got killed, fought off a facehugger which she was only scared of because one had dropped onto her shoulder 60 years ago, blew a bunch of Aliens away in MedLab, blew a bunch of Aliens away in the hive. First time she ever saw an Alien egg in person was when she was rescuing Newt, first time she new Facehuggers came out of them. Killed the Queen because it was giant and scary and was on the Sulaco.

f**king of course she wanted those bodies burned to ashes. She had no idea what the hell was going to happen next, much like audiences. 

[QuantumSheep]

The best way of killing something is to burn it...unless it's some kind of mystical fire demon.

[Hudson]

The best way of killing something is to burn it...unless it's some kind of mystical fire demon.

Or Mad Cow...

[TheMonolith]

Alien 3s reputation is growing.
I believe SM said it best. Underrated by the general public but overrated by fans.
I like the cremation scene. It remains one of my favorite scenes in the series.
My argument was she should have just pitched them in right away without the autopsy.
In retropsect, perhaps this argument was made a bit hastily.

[Hudson]

Yeah, I don't know. If she thought an Alien was going to pop out and kill the guy who was doing the autopsy...what did she think she was going to do in response? Relive the Nostromo tragedy again? Kind of weird.

[StrangeShape]

No one is suggesting you need to flesh out every prisoner.  Alien3 did enough with the principal and supporting characters (Ripley, Clemens, Dillon, Andrews, Aaron, Morse and maybe throw in Golic depending on the version).  Clemens and Andrews are dead by the half way point,

people like Drake, Frost and Apone were dead very early on, despite being interesting and likeable characters too

None of these characters are especially likeable.

I dont think theyre suppose to be, theyre rapists and murderers. I think only Dillon is the one who truly turned around. 85 and Clemens were also likeable, and 85's death is very dramatic

Can most people remember Wierzbowski?  No - but at least they remember the name.  Frost, Dietrich, Drake, Apone - all were just meatbags like the prisoners.  But they each got a moment here and there to endear them to the audience.

There were more prisoners than marines. Marines also had meatbags like Crowe and Wierzbowski, and so the Prison had a bigger share of them because of the larger numbers of the characters. Its a colony basically, you cant (and why would you) make everyone memorable?

But none of them are an example of poor storytelling. perhaps the circumstances of the appearance of the eggs are, but all the other one are just a matter of taste or agreeing with decisions within the story, not poor storytelling

That's just one aspect.

If your whole premise is terribly contrived and has extremely big consequences - it's going to piss people off and you need to work hard to get them back.  Instead Fincher went the other way and pissed them off even more.  A lot of people hated it at the time, and still hate it today.

In many sequels the circumstances are contrived in order for the sequel to have a story, thats just natural so in this regard I dont think its that much different than some sequels to other movies. I also dont think he wanted to piss people off, rather to take them on a route they didnt expect and take the story into a new territory

[SM]

people like Drake, Frost and Apone were dead very early on, despite being interesting and likeable characters too

They weren't interesting- we know next to nothing about them - just likeable.  And that's all you need.

And I said as much myself.

I dont think theyre suppose to be, theyre rapists and murderers.

Thus illustrating the point that no one's going to give a shit when they die.

I think only Dillon is the one who truly turned around. 85 and Clemens were also likeable, and 85's death is very dramatic

Aaron only becomes likeable because of his death.  Prior to that he's a fairly pathetic idiot.

There were more prisoners than marines. Marines also had meatbags like Crowe and Wierzbowski, and so the Prison had a bigger share of them because of the larger numbers of the characters. Its a colony basically, you cant (and why would you) make everyone memorable?

And yet Wierzbowski had a prominent fansite dedicated to him.  The problem isn't the numbers.  You can't give them all equal screen time and nor should you.  However, you needed to give a couple of the supporting characters a bit more to do (preferably ones who didn't attack Ripley - David and Kevin would do) in order to make the audience care.  Frank would've been an ideal choice because he's essentially the first one with any real screen time.

Once again - having them all grubby bald Poms makes them difficult to tell apart on first viewing.  And if you didn't like the first viewing, you're unlikely to go back and watch it again.

In many sequels the circumstances are contrived in order for the sequel to have a story, thats just natural so in this regard I dont think its that much different than some sequels to other movies. I also dont think he wanted to piss people off, rather to take them on a route they didnt expect and take the story into a new territory

There's no black and white on contrivances.  Some are easy to accept (Aliens) and others aren't (Alien3).  They should be applauded for taking the road less travelled - but anyone who's surprised that a lot of people didn't like it, has their head in the sand.

[stephen]

Well said SM.