The Queen in AVP was BIGGER than the one in A2

Started by Meathead320, Jan 10, 2007, 08:33:51 PM

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The Queen in AVP was BIGGER than the one in A2 (Read 18,431 times)

Meathead320

Meathead320

The Queen in AVP was BIGGER than the one in A2.

I know on the collector's DVD the commentary says she is the same size, or 16ft, as the one in Aliens was 16ft, BUT she looked much bigger on screen.

Looking at the one in AVP I got the feeling she was even more T-Rexoid in build, except for having a bigger set of primary arms which a T-Rex obviously did not have. Oddly enough the secondary arms of a queen actually are reminiscent of a T-Rex.

The design changes were more than just giving her a smaller waist to make her more streamline.

A closer look reveals that her legs, which were not shown much in A2 any way, were made much larger on the AVP Queen, and it gives her a sturdier look.

As a general rule of anatomical physics, the larger an animal is, especially a bipedal one, the larger the legs have to be in proportion to the over all size to support its weight.

Example: if your 6ft and 200 pounds, you may only need 40% of your mass in your legs, if you're 20ft and 8000 pounds, your legs would need to be 60% of your mass.

I'm not sure if they considered this when making the Queen for AVP, as that is looking into it pretty far, but looking at her wire frame, made by Stephane Paris, sure enough the legs are proportionally bigger.

Other changes were that the primary arms of the Queen no longer are attached to her back close to her spine, but instead the shoulder inserts on the sides like on a regular humanoid, or the warrior/drone aliens.

When I first watched the movie, I got the impression that the primary arms seemed a little smaller in proportion to the Queen, but again a closer look reveals that it is just the rest of the Queen (aside from her waist) that is bigger.

Even her head, which was made from scratch this time, looked bigger.

Another design change was the adding of the crescent shaped "neck crest" that regular warriors have, that the A2 queen lacked. There were other details I am leaving out of this, but you can see they at least paid respect to the original design, and did not change it so much you cannot recognize it as a Queen.

So now how on earth can "both queens be 16 foot" and one clearly look larger than the previous one?

Simple: the Queen from A2 was 16 foot when standing completely erect. The Queen from AVP was 16'when standing at a 45 degree (or less) angle.

The scene where the AVP Queen stood erect, before she fell through the house sized building; she clearly was taller than it. Well over 16 foot.

So there you have it, the AVP queen was 16 foot, so was the A2 Queen, but only if the A2 queen was standing vertical and the AVP queen was hunched over.

I will add that personally I liked the design change for the Queen. We hardly saw her, and most of the aliens lack a lot of the qualities that we liked from the earlier films, but the AVP Queen did look better IMHO.

Meathead320

Meathead320

#1
Here are a couple pics to illustrate what I am talking about.

http://www.hollywoodcostumesandparty.com/morris/ar302.jpg  _ A2 Queen lifesize prop standing 16 foot. Made from the same molds as the A2 Queen I believe.

AVP Queen images:

http://taz.3dvf.net/Taz_web/queen.htm   

http://www.3dvf.com/modules/publish/Interviews_1339_2.html

http://www.3dvf.com/modules/publish/Interviews_1339_3.html

http://www.3dvf.com/modules/publish/Interviews_1339_4.html

of note is the sceen of the Queen Chasing Lex, Clearly the Queen looks bigger than the one in A2.

FACEBOX

I always thought of the Queen in AVP as an Empress, rather than a regular Queen seen in ALIENS. That explained everything for me. The change in size/design/ and crest.

Clearly, the AVP version looks bigger. She is also more aggressive!
I wonder if she came from a Predator instead of a human. That would also explain the increase in size.

Meathead320

Meathead320

#3
When I first saw her I was wondering the same thing, but after seeing the PredBurster at the end I changed my mind.

I think her host was human, or at least not predator. I think the movie canon has it pretty clear that an alien hosted from a predator has at the very least mandibles on the sides of their primary jaws.

As far as I know she is still a regular Queen, but as an "explanation theory" I would just say she is fully grown.

It is possible that after several months a Queen will "molt", or just continue to grow until she is roughly 16ft tall and 40ft in length when standing hunched over like a T-Rex with her tail straight, and roughly 20ft tall when standing erect or about as big as She looked in AVP.

Unlikely we would ever see an Empress in a movie, I think the AVP type Queen is as close as we will ever get.

I can see movie producers looking at that concept as sort of "Godzilla style", and not fitting for an Alien movie. Also she would make the regular warrior aliens seem like even more of canon fodder.

If there would even be an Empress I think she would look like the Queen from AVP, but be even BIGGER at like 16m tall and 32m long. Also she would only lay eggs for new Queens. Only one Empress Per planet, her hive would be colossal, and she would have several normal adult Queens laying the eggs for warriors in her hive.

That is just my concept for an "Empress".

To others, especially fans of the extinction video game, she is just a big molted Queen. Sure, if that is your take on what an Empress should be, then the AVP Queen may have been one. 

Darkness

No, the Queen in AvP was definitely not a PredQueen. (I hate that concept so much  :P)

The Queen in AvP was definitely much bigger than in Aliens/A4. This could have been because she was in the pyramid frozen for hundreds of years. The ones in the Alien films were not that old.

The Ultimate Predator

Quote from: Darkness on Jan 12, 2007, 09:49:02 PM
No, the Queen in AvP was definitely not a PredQueen. (I hate that concept so much  :P)

The Queen in AvP was definitely much bigger than in Aliens/A4. This could have been because she was in the pyramid frozen for hundreds of years. The ones in the Alien films were not that old.

I agree. Shes a lot, lot older.

Meathead320

Quote from: Darkness on Jan 12, 2007, 09:49:02 PM
No, the Queen in AvP was definitely not a PredQueen. (I hate that concept so much  :P)

The Queen in AvP was definitely much bigger than in Aliens/A4. This could have been because she was in the pyramid frozen for hundreds of years. The ones in the Alien films were not that old.

This brings up another question, seeing how she is BIGGER and has slightly different structure, does she just grow, or molt?

ian36015

ian36015

#7
aperently so i guess.  an example would be a human baby, starts as a baby and slowly grows. in Aliens she could of been like a young women (teenager) or something and in AVP she is a full adult queen

simply response= the queen slowly grows/molts as would like a child into teen into adult (My thoughts)

Corporal Hicks

Could have been a result of those supposed hormones.

The Ultimate Predator

True. Though I think its age.

FACEBOX

I think she either molted, or came from a Predator. I prefer the first option though.

Queens are pure breeds, so no matter the host, the queen herself won't be affected.
Maybe in this case, she was. No mandibles or dreads, but an increase in size and hostility.

Meathead320

Quote from: FACEBOX on Jan 13, 2007, 06:13:47 PM
I think she either molted, or came from a Predator. I prefer the first option though.

Queens are pure breeds, so no matter the host, the queen herself won't be affected.
Maybe in this case, she was. No mandibles or dreads, but an increase in size and hostility.


That is NOT canon. There is no proof that a Queen does not pick up traits from its host.

That was said in the video game AVP: Extinction, but it is not canon as far as the movies go.

We have no evidence either supporting, or against a Queen being able to pick up host traits.

There are some theories about Queens needing to have pure DNA etc...But also just as much saying that one a certain portion of their DNA is pure and it is that portion always passed on;
                Such as 80% of her genes are already there, then the next 20% is taken from host. When she lays new "Queen bearing facehugger" eggs, she only gives them that 80% of her total DNA.

Again, that is just another "theory", we really do not know, and it is up to what the director wants in a movie. Until then, it is an unknown.

It is possible that the only true "pure aliens" are the facehuggers, and that every Queen always has the full set of DNA needed to make a "pure facehugger", and it is them who keep the species pure.

Regardless as to weather or not Queens pick up host traits, far as the AVP Queen goes, I highly doubt she was hosted by a Predator.

IMHO she was hosted by a regular humanoid, most likely human, thousands of years ago. 

FACEBOX

O well...... I tired.  :-\

Meathead320

Quote from: FACEBOX on Jan 14, 2007, 07:59:56 PM
O well...... I tired.  :-\

Hey its all good. It also did cross my mind that this Queen may have been a PredAlien until I saw what the predburster looked like at the end.

I loved AVP Extinction too.

I just wish the game also had Randomly generated levels, bigger boards, and more possible troops/aliens to have.


SiL

Seeing as a human-born Queen looks NOTHING like a human, I think it is relatively safe to assume that they don't pick up host traits.

I look at it like this: Normal Aliens would need the host traits because, presumably, it would help them be more efficient in their new environment. If they come across a four-legged host, then hey, maybe four legs is the way to go in this place.

A Queen, on the other hand, just sits on its ass all day pooping out eggs. That's it. It's not meant to move around or do stuff. Sit, poop, sit, poop. So long as she has an area large enough to house it and its ovipositer, it's set. So, it doesn't need to work efficiently in the environment it's in, so wouldn't need host traits.

That's how I see it, anyway.

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