What if (Two Queens in different areas who meet)

Started by A L I E N, Mar 07, 2010, 02:54:24 PM

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What if (Two Queens in different areas who meet) (Read 11,931 times)

MadassAlex

Inter-hive battles don't make a whole lot of sense:

- Aliens have proven to be co-operative with one-another. Given, they've all been of the same "spawning", but that doesn't mean that two groups of Aliens with different origins (whether in terms of time difference or space difference) would conflict. What benefit is there?

- Competition between animals isn't consistent between species. Some animals fight at the tip of a hat; others are co-operative to a fault. Competition between members of the same species is by no means a given thing, and is in fact not very conductive to self-preservation. Remember that animals that do tend to fight do so over mates and food. Aliens certainly don't mate, and they may or may not eat. And if they were to eat, then their nutritional requirements would be so high that they'd be more likely to battle as individuals for it rather than whole hives.

- Aliens can and do hibernate. There never needs to be competition for hosts because if there isn't enough to go around, one hive can simply take five.

This one's the kicker:

- Aliens are meant to be scary. You can analyse the data all you want, but the bottom line is that Aliens are a fictional creation, designed for high-octane villainry. Anything like a hive war would be counter-effectual, since it takes emphasis away from Aliens munching on humans. It simply breaks the feeling of dread coherence that all Aliens have possessed and the last thing the franchise needs is for another core element of the Alien to die in favour of an EU idea that doesn't know its ass from its elbow.

maledoro

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 01:31:57 AM
Inter-hive battles don't make a whole lot of sense
Not to you, but to them and to those who study animals.

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 01:31:57 AM
Aliens have proven to be co-operative with one-another. Given, they've all been of the same "spawning", but that doesn't mean that two groups of Aliens with different origins (whether in terms of time difference or space difference) would conflict.
No, it doesn't mean that, but creatures from rival groups tend to battle.

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 01:31:57 AM
What benefit is there?
By that thought, you are not being forensic; you are being philosophical. But, if you insist on why, it's very simple: to the victors go the spoils of victory. If your hive wins, they get all the resources.

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 01:31:57 AM
Competition between animals isn't consistent between species. Some animals fight at the tip of a hat; others are co-operative to a fault.
Cooperative within familial structures.

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 01:31:57 AM
Competition between members of the same species is by no means a given thing, and is in fact not very conductive to self-preservation.
It's pretty much a given thing, as they do fight amongst rival hives, packs, and other organized groups.

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 01:31:57 AM
Remember that animals that do tend to fight do so over mates and food.
And territory, water, and even sunlight.

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 01:31:57 AM
Aliens certainly don't mate, and they may or may not eat. And if they were to eat, then their nutritional requirements would be so high that they'd be more likely to battle as individuals for it rather than whole hives.
There are other reasons for competition besides food and reproduction privileges, as listed above and in the linked article.

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 01:31:57 AM
Aliens can and do hibernate. There never needs to be competition for hosts because if there isn't enough to go around, one hive can simply take five.
And to ensure the longevity of said hive, they must make sure other hives do not take their resources.

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 01:31:57 AM
Aliens are meant to be scary. You can analyse the data all you want, but the bottom line is that Aliens are a fictional creation, designed for high-octane villainry.
So, instead of exploring a plausible and natural explanation for the aliens and their habits, you've decided to cop out by breaking down the fourth wall. Nice.

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 01:31:57 AM
Anything like a hive war would be counter-effectual, since it takes emphasis away from Aliens munching on humans.
You made the same argument earlier. Reasserting the same claim doesn't make it correct.

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 01:31:57 AM
It simply breaks the feeling of dread coherence that all Aliens have possessed and the last thing the franchise needs is for another core element of the Alien to die in favour of an EU idea that doesn't know its ass from its elbow.
At least it's one thing that the EU had taken from the real world of animals. Sadly, like other things that are backed by the study of scientific models and other forms of evidence, people tend to deny the existence of these things just because they have a pet idea that they're fond of.

MadassAlex

The fourth wall argument is fine. I'm not going to treat Aliens like real creatures because they're, for one thing, not. For another thing, behavioural conventions that apply to terrestrial lifeforms aren't meant to apply to the Alien - hence its name.

maledoro

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 02:38:44 AM
The fourth wall argument is fine. I'm not going to treat Aliens like real creatures because they're, for one thing, not.
By not treating them as real creatures there is no reason for discussing them at all. We might as well stick to just story elements.

Quote from: MadassAlex on Mar 19, 2010, 02:38:44 AM
For another thing, behavioural conventions that apply to terrestrial lifeforms aren't meant to apply to the Alien - hence its name.
As I had explained to another user on another thread, we can't just argue from ignorance. But if we have to base a case on something, it would have to be on existing models. By throwing our arms up and saying, "I dunno! It's nothing we've seen before!", that would stop science and other forms of discovery dead in their tracks. And, from what we've seen, science has been moving forward since the past few centuries.

Getting back to basing the aliens' attributes on terrestrial models, by making the aliens more entomological, Cameron had opened the door to fans making parallels between the aliens and terrestrial insects; especially with the conversation between Hudson and Vasquez which narratively anticipated the appearance of the queen alien, in the hive, creating eggs with her egg sac, etc. (Nevermind the allusions given by the jargon during the briefing of the marines and the "nose art" on one of the dropships.)

Mus

Meh, I still like to think they'd join forces rather than brawl. It just sits better with me, as I'd like to think they're seeking to destroy any other species in an organized manner rather than fighting for authority inside their own kin.

Alien³

I think if two queens met and each had their own hives the queens would fight for their right to PAAARRRTTTY!!!!

But seriously I think they would fight and claim the other hive. There can only be one queen.

maledoro

Quote from: Mus on Mar 19, 2010, 08:30:23 AM
Meh, I still like to think they'd join forces rather than brawl. It just sits better with me, as I'd like to think they're seeking to destroy any other species in an organized manner rather than fighting for authority inside their own kin.
Why the hell not? That technique works well for religion and politics.

SiL

This is one of those "We just don't f**king know" situations where arguing back and forth about it is just wasting everyone's time.

Alien³

Quote from: SiL on Mar 19, 2010, 11:51:30 AM
This is one of those "We just don't f**king know" situations where arguing back and forth about it is just wasting everyone's time.

Ah come on SiL, it's using your imagination to create theories surrounding these fictional characters.

The Hyena

Wouldn't 2 Hives be counter-productive and increase the chance of genetic mutation (thus bad) anyway?

Mus

Sure, if more eggs is counter-productive. Genetic mutations are not always a bad thing either, look up evolution for further information. Assuming these things are prone to that in the first place.

#6.0

Two hives with two different queens would fight. Now one of two things would happen. One, one the queens would become the dominant and the the other would become a servant. This would only happen if they were basically the same breed, such as two queen from the derelict facing off. The alternative, the hives would fight and one queen would not surrender, the drones would just kill her, the queen would not spare her, or something and there would be only one queen. The other hives eggs, drones and hosts would now serve the new queen. Unless they had a queen to fall back on. In this case any survivors would flee and would be banished. If they did not have a fall back queen they would serve they new queen and their breed would die out eventually. The main reason they would do this, kill the queen that is, would be like a derelict hive, vs a res. hive two different.   

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