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Poll

What should Rebellion do? [1 vote for the mechanic & 1 for the availability]

decrease the range of it
58 (26.1%)
change the way of the activaition (hold the button for 2 seconds for example)
31 (14%)
decrease the range and change the activaition
30 (13.5%)
make an option to turn it off
40 (18%)
just usable against rines
0 (0%)
remove it
6 (2.7%)
no fix needed
57 (25.7%)

Total Members Voted: 171

Author Topic: [POLL] About the future of the stealthkill  (Read 7967 times)

provost
Feb 23, 2010, 01:03:23 PM
Reply #30 on: Feb 23, 2010, 01:03:23 PM
Q
Toggle On or Off via cvar for dedicated server (assuming we ever get these)

When it's Off, regular melee has increased % dmg if you attack someone in the back ie: 1 strong attack on your opponents back

Marine stays as is.


Zakharov
Feb 23, 2010, 01:10:04 PM
Reply #31 on: Feb 23, 2010, 01:10:04 PM
Q
I had some game against an alien who constantly tried to circle around me and "stealth" kill me. Every single time. And each time his name showed up on the display when he killed someone, it was a stealth kill. That's annoying. A good player can counter that but inexperienced gamer will be frustrated by such freaks and lose interest in the game. Same problem with the disc.

I'd suggest that, if the enemy appeared on your screen there should be a countdown of a few seconds in which he can't stealth kill you. This way he can't circle around and "e-death" you. But if you lose track of him when those seconds are over and he is behind you, he can stealth kill you.

Beside that I think the teleporting is due to the online connection. There is always some sort of delay, so on his screen you're not turning around and seeing him. From his point of view he really stealth kills. I experienced pretty often that I got shoot by a marine though I was already behind the next corner and therefore out of range (from my point of view). But I guess on his screen I was still in range due to the delay.

Perhaps one could add another option. No stealth kill while the victim runs. At least in my opinion stealth kill should be all sneaky. Doing it while the victim rushes over the map doesn't appear that sneaky to me. But that's a point of view.


Viem
Feb 23, 2010, 09:53:38 PM
Reply #32 on: Feb 23, 2010, 09:53:38 PM
Q
The game plays as it should be and is closest to reality than ever... Why ruin it..?
Stealth kills should stay as they are, it adds to the realism!


Some_Guy
Feb 23, 2010, 10:14:38 PM
Reply #33 on: Feb 23, 2010, 10:14:38 PM
Q
I think the range should be nerfed, it's kinda ridiculous that you can teleport behind your opponent, also make so that the SK really only work from behind, there's been far too many times when i've turned around and saw an Alien/Predator glide towards and then just suddenly turn me around and SK me, sometimes i've even managed to hit my opponent with a LA during this "glide" period, bad connection and/or lag could be the reason for this but i doubt it, it's happened way too many times, even i have sometimes managed to do it to some poor chaps, if someone's trying to SK you but you manage to turn around and face them before they actually grab you, it should try to do a TK instead of magically turning you a 180 degrees and SK'ing you.

But other than that i don't have any complaints, they just need to tune the range and make them really only work from behind.


Valheru
Feb 23, 2010, 10:48:58 PM
Reply #34 on: Feb 23, 2010, 10:48:58 PM
Q
Hey thats an idea Some_Guy!...if you turn around in time, it converts to a trophy kill and if you have enough health you can counter it, if not then they get their TK converted SK.

I think the core of the problem is that people are actually after a challenge, to pit their skills against other players. Getting SK removes any skill from the equation and enjoyment of the game's dynamic fighting system, sure it's cinematic and cool to watch but that's about it...people didn't buy a game to sit back and watch, they want to interact and have options to tactfully use and come out above, winning against their opponent and having a sense of achievement, so I think a simple counter to the SK would fix this issue.

They got it right with TK where you can shove them off if you have enough health and hit the counter button in time, if you don't have enough health and they manage to get you then that's fair, you were obviously loosing that battle anyway and the outcome was already decided. If they could implement the same system for SK it would really clean up the game in terms of cheap SK and the angst it creates.

Cheers!

Valheru


Dusk
Feb 23, 2010, 10:57:15 PM
Reply #35 on: Feb 23, 2010, 10:57:15 PM
Q
An idea I had, if Rebellion doesn't shorten the stealth kill animation, is to make the player able to quickly throw the corpse.

So for example, you stealth kill someone from behind, of course you'll be unable to go anywhere for a few seconds, if you happen to see someone coming at you from the front, you could quickly tap Focus+Heavy attack and throw the corpse at the targeted person. Simply knocking the attacker over.

Of course if someone comes at you from behind, your screwed as always.


CONKERSBADFURDAY
Feb 24, 2010, 01:50:05 AM
Reply #36 on: Feb 24, 2010, 01:50:05 AM
Q
An idea I had, if Rebellion doesn't shorten the stealth kill animation, is to make the player able to quickly throw the corpse.

So for example, you stealth kill someone from behind, of course you'll be unable to go anywhere for a few seconds, if you happen to see someone coming at you from the front, you could quickly tap Focus+Heavy attack and throw the corpse at the targeted person. Simply knocking the attacker over.

Of course if someone comes at you from behind, your screwed as always.
The reason stealth kills and trophy kills take so long is because of balance. They are not going to change the speed of which they take place or allow you to counter people mid stealth kill. It would ruin game balance.

You stealth kill someone, you make a trade off. A free kill vs being open to attacks for a few seconds.


#6.0
Feb 24, 2010, 06:27:10 AM
Reply #37 on: Feb 24, 2010, 06:27:10 AM
Q
got any good ideas for more stealth kills?
kinda off topic i no.
as alien, grad flip around, acid spit in face.


FrontlinerDelta
Feb 24, 2010, 06:45:54 AM
Reply #38 on: Feb 24, 2010, 06:45:54 AM
Q
Ok, first post but been reading here awhile.

First off I must say Im an absolute sucker for the SK/TK animations. Not only do they look fantastic, to me it adds a much needed cinematic/lore feature to the multiplayer.

Now, does it get abused? Hell yeah, mainly when people just try and circle to your back.

I also know that a lot of people don't like the range but maybe we're thinking of this the wrong way. What if, instead of decreasing range you made it a minimum distance requirement to keep someone who's spamming E from grabbing you when the autoaim throws you past them.

Now, Im also not so sure about the no skill part, it really doesn't take a whole lot more skill to focus pounce+light attack=Dead enemy. They are there for when you see an enemy not paying attention and then grab them.

I'm rarely stealth killed but I use it when I can as long as its strategic and won't get me killed (hopefully). I mean it just feels right, if an alien runs up behind you, it isn't gonna claw at you a couple times giving you time to turn around, its going to headbite or shove its tail up your body and out your mouth!

Just my 2 cents.   ;)


AJL
Feb 24, 2010, 06:52:44 AM
Reply #39 on: Feb 24, 2010, 06:52:44 AM
Q
1. Activation range should be cut down...

2. Activation only possible while standing still or walking...

3. Actication not possible withing ~1 second of using Jump or Sprint...

4. "Stealth Zone" timer. (No need to hold down the button for 2 seconds,
    but you should need to be behind the enemy for some +1 seconds...)


Dusk
Feb 24, 2010, 09:22:03 AM
Reply #40 on: Feb 24, 2010, 09:22:03 AM
Q
You stealth kill someone, you make a trade off. A free kill vs being open to attacks for a few seconds.

And why would we need a trade off? You managed to sneak up on someone from behind. It's not any different as if you'd knife someone from behind in Battlefield. There's no reason why there should be a long stealth kill animation, especially when I can dispatch Marines quicker by rushing them and then finishing them off on the ground. I've quickly disposed of Marines like that when I played the MP. So where's the balance there? Either of it is a sure kill when I catch someone off guard.


hardwired
Feb 24, 2010, 11:47:52 AM
Reply #41 on: Feb 24, 2010, 11:47:52 AM
Q
You stealth kill someone, you make a trade off. A free kill vs being open to attacks for a few seconds.

And why would we need a trade off? You managed to sneak up on someone from behind. It's not any different as if you'd knife someone from behind in Battlefield. There's no reason why there should be a long stealth kill animation, especially when I can dispatch Marines quicker by rushing them and then finishing them off on the ground. I've quickly disposed of Marines like that when I played the MP. So where's the balance there? Either of it is a sure kill when I catch someone off guard.

Are you serious?! No difference?! 

1. In Battlefield meleekills happens not often. In AVP3 the whole time.

2. As alien and pred you move a whole lot faster than in Battlefield, so for preds and  aliens its no big deal to get near and finally behind an enemy.

3. Battlefield is an FPS with a knife-kill now and then, in AVP melee is a essential part of the gameplay. It got a real system for that, even if its often annuled by the stealthkill.

4. Its a game about predators and aliens. No standard-soldiers like in Battlefield. I dont think that aliens and predators deserve it to get killed by this push-the-button-to-kill-feature.

5. If the stealthkill would work faster, it would be a stealthkill-fest. Wow. Its allready a mess in many matches (average map with 9 preds and 9 aliens->The time to take the rine and score, with less danger of getting stealthkilled).

Really, whats the point of a complex meleesystem, where meleefights take some time and you are mostly surrounded (not on every map ore maparea or playeramount <-that makes the difference) with enemys, if someone other just have to push a button to kill you. Its nothing about stealth.

You are mostly screwed as pred/alien if a alien/pred hits you with an heavy attack from behind (what I usually do, to avoid frustrating aliens/preds, that are allready in a melee by using the stealthkill).
I think thats clearly enough. You only got the half of HP if someones do that and if you are allready on the half of that points you are dead. Thats something im really fine with.

I played a game yesterday, where noone used the stealthkill and it was impressive how much more fun it is without it.  It was great if an alien fighted 2 preds or vice versa, without the danger to get killed by that "stealthkill".

It was a huge map with just a few players. So everyone stalked and tried to being stealthy. No hectic no chaos and no paranoia/fear about getting a tail or whristblade in the back,  cause noone used the instantkillbutton. Tactic, tension and epic meleefights.
Reminded me of AVP2 (with AJL-Mod) where this was always possible, just with no real meleesystem.
If someone thinks different, OK, but in my eyes thats the way it should be.  ;D

I got no problem, if I get killed the whole time. The question is how I get killed.

That discussion reminds me of an Mortal Kombat-fan, who actually tried to tell me, that the balance and complexity and the overall fightsystem of Mortal Kombat is as good as the one in Virtua Fighter....Yeah. For sure. LOL

1. Activation range should be cut down...

2. Activation only possible while standing still or walking...

3. Actication not possible withing ~1 second of using Jump or Sprint...

4. "Stealth Zone" timer. (No need to hold down the button for 2 seconds,
    but you should need to be behind the enemy for some +1 seconds...)

I would like, that its not usable, if you are allready in a meleefight. Apart from that i like that solution.

But i hope just for an option to turn it off. If aliens become underpowered, cause of that, they can boost other skills of it.



« Last Edit: Feb 24, 2010, 11:55:00 AM by hardwired »

hardwired
Feb 24, 2010, 12:00:36 PM
Reply #42 on: Feb 24, 2010, 12:00:36 PM
Q
Another idea in combination with AJLs ideas.

Make the stealthkills much faster.

Make it an instantkill on rines.

Aliens and preds just loose the half of their health.

Or:

The ability for preds and aliens to block it in any way.


AJL
Feb 24, 2010, 12:51:30 PM
Reply #43 on: Feb 24, 2010, 12:51:30 PM
Q
1. Activation range should be cut down...
2. Activation only...

5A. Stealth/Trophy Kills, KILL should happen when the actual killing move
is done, NOT when you grab the enemy. So if the killer is killed the victim
maybe saved... or...

5B. The Killer should not get the Kill, Points, Xp, ... from the kill IF he is
killed in the process...

6. It should be possible to abort Stealth and Trophy kills...


Eldritch
Feb 24, 2010, 02:20:22 PM
Reply #44 on: Feb 24, 2010, 02:20:22 PM
Q
All the while they are cool and gory, I feel that they don't belong in this type of game.. Remove is my vote :)


 

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