User Information

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Mechanics Needing To Be Changed  (Read 58039 times)

Xenomorphine
Jan 21, 2010, 02:27:51 AM
Topic on: Jan 21, 2010, 02:27:51 AM
In the latest video examples, I'm presuming these are the latest versions of whatever the finished product will end up using. Initially, various things were debated on here and, in some cases, there were assumptions that a few of them were just place-holder graphics.

In the cases of a few things, there have definitely been some improvements. There's ore fluidity, for one thing. The Alien encountered in the Marine campaign also needs a lot more hits to take it down, compared to the early footage, which is a good thing. The dying animations also look smoother. The video in the 'strip club' is actually a lot more impressive than the 'first 10 minutes' stuff and I felt an unexpected pang of nostalgia at seeing how, this time, they've got the flares to be purple (although, they don't seem to last nearly as long as th eones Ripley used!).

Simple things and a great deal of atmosphere, as a direct result.

I could mention more, but what are the things you've seen in these latest examples, which you thought and might even have expected them to change, but are puzzled why, after all this time, they still haven't been? Or are there things which have been added and you've felt have somehow made it worse?

My list would be:

Alien 'growls': Eh... The hissing is fine. Even a scream, if the creature is in some sort of hectic and exciting moment (defeats the purpose of stealth with it doing so for no apparent reason aside from jumping, though). But hearing those 'Resurrection'-like growls makes it feel... I don't know. Not Alien. Like a different creature. Surely, it'd be better to save these for action sequences and not every time it leaps on a surface or through a vent?

Predator HUD: We still have the lines! And we still have the unauthentic zooming! What's wrong with the cool 'snapshot' effect, seen in the films? Surely, this slower, more time-consuming zoom is less well-suited for combat? I know they did it this way in the other games, but that's why I thought they would have changed that, by now. It shouldn't take much of a change to the code, after all. Just eliminate the transition and add a whipcrack sound. If the red lines are there to remind the user they're zoomed in, then they can be replaced with something a lot less intrusive.

Marine animations: It's difficult to explain, but while I love how they've got the hands and fingers to randomly stretch, you still get this feeling of the weapon being taped to the screen, rather then being held. This isn't all that important, but it'd be nice to get rid of that, for the sake of atmosphere.

Predator vision: I still say that a much better way to allow the user to 'see' on the human wavelength, would be to allow that if the user switches to third-person view, but prevent it if only seeing from the creature's perspective. Since they're not doing that, however, I'm going to be hand-waving it as one of those 'silly, but what can you do' things, like the magically appearing facehuggers. What is weird, however, is that they're including the Predators apparently seeing things in that way, as part of the cinematics! See that 'mask recording' of one they're playing? What was wrong with portraying that part exclusively in thermal?

Predator functions: From the looks of it, the Predator can't use blades and cannons at the same time. It literally has to operate the wrist computer in order to do so. Wouldn't it have been better to have these combined? 'Button 1' using the blades and 'button 2' pressed once to laser a target and a second time to fire the guns? Something like that would both make it more of an authentic experience and eliminate the time consumed between 'switching' those weapons. Yes, I realise some of you are going to say that would do away with a 'light'/'heavy' attack choice, but stuff like that could easily be context-sensitive, along the lines of how 'Batman: Arkham Asylum' automatically figures out how the cahracter would apply combat moves.

Predator voice mimic: Sounds very good! But... How the heck is it able to 'throw' its voice? It doesn't make sense, scientifically and they don't do that in the films. This seems like another one of those things where, while forcing an unnecessary 'balance' in one area (kills taking you out of invisibility), they give the creautre an added advantage it doesn't need. Surely, allowing the creature to mimic things but with the disadvantage of the sound coming from its own position, would be fine?

There are other things I could mention, but this isn't about aspects which would require overhauling things in general. Just factors which would probably only need slightly modifying of what's already there.

« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2010, 02:48:01 AM by Xenomorphine »

Giger_Incubator
Jan 21, 2010, 02:38:43 AM
Reply #1 on: Jan 21, 2010, 02:38:43 AM
We already have people nitpicking over everything all over the site, do we need a thread completely dedicated to it?


Xenomorphine
Jan 21, 2010, 02:44:08 AM
Reply #2 on: Jan 21, 2010, 02:44:08 AM
We already have people nitpicking over everything all over the site, do we need a thread completely dedicated to it?

It's not bitching for the sake of it. I'm interested in this from a mechanics-specific view. Not people hating the look of how a piece of equipment was designed or something, but constructive opinions on what easy-to-change aspects others were expecting to have been changed, but obviously haven't been.

For instance, I pointed out the Predator HUD, but offered an opinion on how this could easily be changed, at minimum cost to the actual code: Eliminate the red lines and transition animation and replace it with a snapshot sound.

It's the difference between name-calling and constructive criticism with the benefit of hindsight. :)


Giger_Incubator
Jan 21, 2010, 02:56:56 AM
Reply #3 on: Jan 21, 2010, 02:56:56 AM
We already have people nitpicking over everything all over the site, do we need a thread completely dedicated to it?

It's not bitching for the sake of it. I'm interested in this from a mechanics-specific view. Not people hating the look of how a piece of equipment was designed or something, but constructive opinions on what easy-to-change aspects others were expecting to have been changed, but obviously haven't been.

For instance, I pointed out the Predator HUD, but offered an opinion on how this could easily be changed, at minimum cost to the actual code: Eliminate the red lines and transition animation and replace it with a snapshot sound.

It's the difference between name-calling and constructive criticism with the benefit of hindsight. :)

No, I get what you meant, and I'm sure YOU have good intentions.  Problem is, there have been three very similar threads to this, and all three have turned into the opposite of constructive criticism.

I just don't understand constructive criticism at this point.  The bitching I understand, but the design of the game has been fought over by the developers and implemented.  What your talking about won't be patched.  It's over.


l3awl3ag
Jan 21, 2010, 03:07:30 AM
Reply #4 on: Jan 21, 2010, 03:07:30 AM
I agree with all of your points appart from the predator vision one. I don't have any legitimate reason to other than that I absolutely hate games that allow you to switch between first and third person perspective, sorry lol. It's a bit of an immersion killer for me. I know that's kinda daft, what with the fact that I'll be playing an alien, but still..

Also I find it causes problems online. Players using the predator would be able to "corner camp", i.e. hide behind cover and observe the area infront of them without actually exposing themselves. That might not be a huge problem in a game as fast paced as this, other than the possibility of plasma caster abuse, but after playing G.R.A.W I've grown to hate it.

 

« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2010, 03:13:24 AM by l3awl3ag »

z0diac
Jan 21, 2010, 03:11:07 AM
Reply #5 on: Jan 21, 2010, 03:11:07 AM
How can we assume this is a near final build?  We have no idea when or where the footage surfaced from (besides the MSXbox site).  Besides, it even gives indication of being a "Work in Progress" via the watermark.

Though you do bring up some valid points that I too questioned while watching the videos, but nevertheless, all of these are just assumptions until the final build/retail version is released and reviewed.


specter
Jan 21, 2010, 03:16:42 AM
Reply #6 on: Jan 21, 2010, 03:16:42 AM
How can we assume this is a near final build?  We have no idea when or where the footage surfaced from (besides the MSXbox site).  Besides, it even gives indication of being a "Work in Progress" via the watermark.

Though you do bring up some valid points that I too questioned while watching the videos, but nevertheless, all of these are just assumptions until the final build/retail version is released and reviewed.

Get somebody who plays it at SFX Weekender to tell you if its different. By then, its bound to be the final build.


RidgeTop
Jan 21, 2010, 03:19:51 AM
Reply #7 on: Jan 21, 2010, 03:19:51 AM

You may be able to remove the HUD from the game view. 


Spaghetti
Jan 21, 2010, 03:22:14 AM
Reply #8 on: Jan 21, 2010, 03:22:14 AM
As usual 'Morphene you make some good points. Agree with you completely on the Predator vision and zooming.

We already have people nitpicking over everything all over the site, do we need a thread completely dedicated to it?

Don't mean to be offend, but your talk of meaningless threads is kinda hypocritical.


l3awl3ag
Jan 21, 2010, 03:26:21 AM
Reply #9 on: Jan 21, 2010, 03:26:21 AM
As usual 'Morphene you make some good points. Agree with you completely on the Predator vision and zooming.

We already have people nitpicking over everything all over the site, do we need a thread completely dedicated to it?

Don't mean to be offend, but your talk of meaningless threads is kinda hypocritical.
I think the whole "meaningless thread" theme he has going is just a more polite and code of conduct friendly way of saying "shut up". As are most things people say on forums lol.


Private W Hudson
Jan 21, 2010, 03:34:50 AM
Reply #10 on: Jan 21, 2010, 03:34:50 AM
I've never nitpicked on this game yet, But after seeing the alien gameplay for 10mins i was a little dissapointed with how it's working out the AI is pretty bad.. what happend to all the panic and screams from avp1, What's with the workers not moving when they see a alien. Dare i say it i even saw a glitch or somthing the alien was climbing and was performing a stealth kill but nothing happend the marine just dropped dead was pretty bad. The voice acting ain't the greatest either, and when you harvest and the facehugger is fininshed the bodies flop like something is wrong with the physics or is that just they're nerves. Honestly the best campaign i've seen so far is the marine one. The noobie players make it worse.

For PC gamers it seems that when you crawl fast the marines notice you but if you move slowly they don't we don't have thumbsticks on PC, so i'm guessing they will add a walk button hopefully. Hope they give PC some TLC(Tender Loving Care).

« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2010, 03:38:14 AM by Private W Hudson »

Zephon
Jan 21, 2010, 03:41:24 AM
Reply #11 on: Jan 21, 2010, 03:41:24 AM
Where is this alien vid everyone talks about? :(



l3awl3ag
Jan 21, 2010, 03:43:11 AM
Reply #13 on: Jan 21, 2010, 03:43:11 AM
The only worry I had with the alien video was the facehugger animation. I seriously hope it doesn't use that same animation every time or that's going to become a bit boring. I mean fair enough I only say it being done twice but absolutely everything was identical, from the angle that the facehugger came into shot and how it jumped, to how the body landed afterwards. Other than that I think it looked tip top.

And yeah I agree Private W Hudson, the players aren't exactly showing the game at it's best. They're shite. I suppose that's fair enough though, I mean it's not like they're official developer walkthroughs. Christ they're not even supposed to be out.

And here's one Zephon, shit quality but it's a video lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFZWDRLOVuM




Eidotemit
Jan 21, 2010, 03:46:19 AM
Reply #14 on: Jan 21, 2010, 03:46:19 AM
My list would be:

Alien 'growls': Eh... The hissing is fine. Even a scream, if the creature is in some sort of hectic and exciting moment (defeats the purpose of stealth with it doing so for no apparent reason aside from jumping, though). But hearing those 'Resurrection'-like growls makes it feel... I don't know. Not Alien. Like a different creature. Surely, it'd be better to save these for action sequences and not every time it leaps on a surface or through a vent?

Absolutely agree on this. Hell, I don't even mind an occasional growl, but the fact that it happens with every move that you make is a bit annoying and I would much rather have them not do it.

Quote
Predator HUD: We still have the lines! And we still have the unauthentic zooming! What's wrong with the cool 'snapshot' effect, seen in the films? Surely, this slower, more time-consuming zoom is less well-suited for combat? I know they did it this way in the other games, but that's why I thought they would have changed that, by now. It shouldn't take much of a change to the code, after all. Just eliminate the transition and add a whipcrack sound. If the red lines are there to remind the user they're zoomed in, then they can be replaced with something a lot less intrusive.

I would also prefer the snapshot zoom seen in the original movies. What is in the game now doesn't really bother me, but I would rather have it be like movies. The lines, I don't really mind those at all.

Quote
Marine animations: It's difficult to explain, but while I love how they've got the hands and fingers to randomly stretch, you still get this feeling of the weapon being taped to the screen, rather then being held. This isn't all that important, but it'd be nice to get rid of that, for the sake of atmosphere.

I don't see it.

Quote
Predator vision: I still say that a much better way to allow the user to 'see' on the human wavelength, would be to allow that if the user switches to third-person view, but prevent it if only seeing from the creature's perspective. Since they're not doing that, however, I'm going to be hand-waving it as one of those 'silly, but what can you do' things, like the magically appearing facehuggers. What is weird, however, is that they're including the Predators apparently seeing things in that way, as part of the cinematics! See that 'mask recording' of one they're playing? What was wrong with portraying that part exclusively in thermal?

This doesn't bother me at all, I find it perfectly reasonable that the predator mask can have a visible light mode. I do somewhat agree on that opening video, but meh.

Quote
Predator functions: From the looks of it, the Predator can't use blades and cannons at the same time. It literally has to operate the wrist computer in order to do so. Wouldn't it have been better to have these combined? 'Button 1' using the blades and 'button 2' pressed once to laser a target and a second time to fire the guns? Something like that would both make it more of an authentic experience and eliminate the time consumed between 'switching' those weapons. Yes, I realise some of you are going to say that would do away with a 'light'/'heavy' attack choice, but stuff like that could easily be context-sensitive, along the lines of how 'Batman: Arkham Asylum' automatically figures out how the cahracter would apply combat moves.

I think what they have is fine.

Quote
Predator voice mimic: Sounds very good! But... How the heck is it able to 'throw' its voice? It doesn't make sense, scientifically and they don't do that in the films. This seems like another one of those things where, while forcing an unnecessary 'balance' in one area (kills taking you out of invisibility), they give the creautre an added advantage it doesn't need. Surely, allowing the creature to mimic things but with the disadvantage of the sound coming from its own position, would be fine?

Yeah, I thought the voice throw was strange. Why can't the pred be the source? Wouldn't it have been fine to mimic something and then you move? Add a bit more challenge, and is more authentic.




 

Facebook Twitter Instagram Steam RSS Feed