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Author Topic: AVP3 Ideas  (Read 198373 times)

The Old One
Nov 25, 2018, 05:45:05 PM
Reply #1575 on: Nov 25, 2018, 05:45:05 PM
Q
Oh c'mon, you know exactly what I mean.

It's a situation where Predator exists as a starter or side-dish to the Alien Franchise, and that's not a healthy relationship for either partner.

Predator inhabits the world of Alien quite a bit, but because Predator has no universe to speak of- 
Because Predator inhabits the world of Alien quite a bit Predator finds it difficult to stand on it's own two feet.
Predator ought to be performing in the same leagues as Halloween, Friday the 13th & A Nightmare On Elm Street.
Or go bigger and have a team of talented people extrapolate the Predator universe into something larger- Avatar-like.

But being tied to Alien for either of these potential scenarios does it no favours.
Because ultimately then, it's back to the beginning concept of- a Predator in the Alien Universe.
& Predator ought to be more than that.


Perfect-Organism
Nov 25, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Reply #1576 on: Nov 25, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Q
I think AVP has played itself out.  But mostly I think that is in terms of it having some sort of canonical merit.  Comics can still be fun, but crossing predators and any subject matter related to Prometheus are ill advised even in comics.  That was the problem with Fire, Stone, Life and death.

A literal adaptation of the original AVP series as a film would be cool.  No question.  But the key would be to make it non-canonical from the get-go.

Oh c'mon, you know exactly what I mean.

It's a situation where Predator exists as a starter or side-dish to the Alien Franchise, and that's not a healthy relationship for either partner.

Predator inhabits the world of Alien quite a bit, but because Predator has no universe to speak of- 
Because Predator inhabits the world of Alien quite a bit Predator finds it difficult to stand on it's own two feet.
Predator ought to be performing in the same leagues as Halloween, Friday the 13th & A Nightmare On Elm Street.
Or go bigger and have a team of talented people extrapolate the Predator universe into something larger- Avatar-like.

But being tied to Alien for either of these potential scenarios does it no favours.
Because ultimately then, it's back to the beginning concept of- a Predator in the Alien Universe.
& Predator ought to be more than that.

Yes, I tend to agree with this.  Predator doesn't build its own lore.  Mind you I'm so bored of Predators I haven't even seen the new film yet.

« Last Edit: Nov 25, 2018, 05:52:17 PM by Perfect-Organism »

Voodoo Magic
Nov 25, 2018, 06:18:18 PM
Reply #1577 on: Nov 25, 2018, 06:18:18 PM
Q
Oh c'mon, you know exactly what I mean.

I'm sorry, how should someone take calling the Predator franchise an "irrelevant corpse" other than literally, and as an effort to be coarse and belittling?

Quote
It's a situation where Predator exists as a starter or side-dish to the Alien Franchise, and that's not a healthy relationship for either partner.

Disagree. And often in AVP lore, Alien is the sidedish.

Quote
Predator inhabits the world of Alien quite a bit, but because Predator has no universe to speak of- 
Because Predator inhabits the world of Alien quite a bit

Its only natural and organic when your merging Alien and Predator lore to include major aspects of each.  And since Alien exists in the future, and the company... aka Weyland-Yutani Corp.. is such an intricate part of the Alien world, it had to be included... considering no such company existed in Predator, other than the US military and special divisions of said military. It would only make sense to bring in that intricate part of Alien, from a writer's perspective, when merging the two.

The net of it is though, nothing can change each other's mind, but let's try not to be rude about it please.

« Last Edit: Nov 25, 2018, 06:21:26 PM by Voodoo Magic »

The Old One
Nov 25, 2018, 06:33:16 PM
Reply #1578 on: Nov 25, 2018, 06:33:16 PM
Q
Quote
It's a situation where Predator exists as a starter or side-dish to the Alien Franchise, and that's not a healthy relationship for either partner.

Disagree. And often in AVP lore, Alien is the sidedish.


Nonsense- every AVP story is essentially an Alien story with a Predator dropped in.
That's inarguable.

Predator inhabits the world of Alien quite a bit, but because Predator has no universe to speak of- 
Because Predator inhabits the world of Alien quite a bit.

Its only natural and organic when your merging Alien and Predator lore to include major aspects of each.  And since Alien exists in the future, and the company... aka Weyland-Yutani Corp.. is such an intricate part of the Alien world, it had to be included... considering no such company existed in Predator, other than the US military and special divisions of said military. It would only make sense to bring in that intricate part of Alien, from a writer's perspective, when merging the two.

Seems like you're missing the point by a wide margin.

Predator ought to be performing in the same leagues as Halloween, Friday the 13th &
A Nightmare On Elm Street.
Or go bigger and have a team of talented people extrapolate the Predator universe into something larger- Avatar-like.

But being tied to Alien for either of these potential scenarios does it no favours.
Because ultimately then, it's back to the beginning concept of- a Predator in the Alien Universe.
& Predator ought to be more than that.



Voodoo Magic
Nov 25, 2018, 06:49:03 PM
Reply #1579 on: Nov 25, 2018, 06:49:03 PM
Q
I've suggested myself that Predator can adopt the slasher model successfully, and Aliens have been sometimes reduced to cannon fodder prey in some AvP EU... aka sidedish.

But you're missing my point by a wide margin. We can agree to disagree, but be respectful about it.

« Last Edit: Nov 25, 2018, 06:53:21 PM by Voodoo Magic »

The Old One
Nov 25, 2018, 07:04:56 PM
Reply #1580 on: Nov 25, 2018, 07:04:56 PM
Q
I'm sorry my corpse comment offended so much, it was only intended as a jovial jab.
(Much like your Blade-Runner comment.)
If I hated Predator or considered it really irrelevant, I'd say it's only future is with AVP.
Because of association to Alien. (But I believe precisely the opposite.)


Voodoo Magic
Nov 25, 2018, 07:36:28 PM
Reply #1581 on: Nov 25, 2018, 07:36:28 PM
Q
I'm sorry my corpse comment offended so much, it was only intended as a jovial jab.
(Much like your Blade-Runner comment.)
If I hated Predator or considered it really irrelevant, I'd say it's only future is with AVP.
Because of association to Alien. (But I believe precisely the opposite.)


Appreciate it.  Cheers  :)


D. Compton Ambrose
Nov 25, 2018, 10:37:41 PM
Reply #1582 on: Nov 25, 2018, 10:37:41 PM
Q
The characters by themselves command such a powerful aura of authority and nobility within fandom, that they both have virtually limitless wells from which to draw literary material.


SuperiorIronman
Mar 05, 2019, 11:15:03 PM
Reply #1583 on: Mar 05, 2019, 11:15:03 PM
Q
I don't think the Alien actually benefits from an AVP story as much as the Predators do. The Alien is typically played as this ultimate prize where the Hunter(s) have to kill one to be worth a damn. Except in an AVP story the Aliens are torn down rather easily and the films make it a note that the more experienced Predator has no trouble at all until it comes to the Hybrid or Queen.

To that end it means that the Alien has less to gain from the experience than the Predator does because it ultimately becomes fodder.

The Predator however greatly benefited from an expanded mythology which also included the ultimate hybrid between the two, the PredAlien. The Predators hunting Xenomorphs becomes as a result this manhood ritual in-universe. It also benefited from the symbolism of a boy becoming a man by metaphorically claiming his penis. The Alien being this symbol of unchecked male aggression and sexual violence is used to convey that that the boy has become a man, and that in slaying the dragon he has proven himself master of his domain. He has proven him worth the respect of peers. And because this is conveyed in the subsequent films it means that the Predators get to embellish themselves. Make no mistake, this is the underlying reason the Predators are even present in the original comic. You become a man by proving your dominance. And to that end I say that works astoundingly well for the franchise which is why it was never jettisoned even after Prometheus screwed the timeline up.

So what needs to happen in an AVP 3?

The Knight needs to slay the Dragon.

The Knight needs to come in on his white horse and save the princess from the Dragon.
In short what this film needs to do is simple, have one Predator and have one Alien. The Alien is a threat because it will takeover eventually given enough time and she can spread fast which creates obstacles for the Predator. Said obstacles can be metaphors for feats the Predator must perform to gain access to the Dragons's lair (the hive). Because they take traits of their host, they really can represent that. Be it the elements, or strength, speed, courage, etc. The Predator only has to come in and prove his worth to the Princess (the clan, the humans, or himself). The Predator (the Knight) then confronts the dragon and this battle then decides if he is worthy of his honor. Does he prove himself?

To that end AVP isn't about the humans, it's about the Predator. The Predator's story is the important part which serves as the narrative catalyst, and the means to its end.

AVP 3 does not have to be this all-inspiring epic nor does it have to be straight horror. AVP is at its core a knight slaying the dragon.


Kimarhi
Mar 09, 2019, 05:39:59 AM
Reply #1584 on: Mar 09, 2019, 05:39:59 AM
Q
AvP gets on my nerves when it becomes an excuse to show one or two action set pieces centered around humans spilling exposition.


I think the franchise as a standalone could work (discounting the Anderson and Strause AvPs) if they actually tried to establish the human characters with the pred an alien only being shown primarily working against them with maybe a few shots of the predator on it's own do to it being more relatable as a humanoid. 

Like a cross of AvP2 (game) worldbuilding mixed with the original comic.

So Noguchi is the head of a brand new WY research post that is looking at old derelict tech and suddenly finds herself actually being responsible for the facility when it comes into contact with Preds and Aliens in conflict. 

I think the concessions would have to be made.  To me the Pred universe is more macho, so you'd have to either make the Aliens universe MORE macho OR make the Predator universe more scary.  So I see the Preds being more of a horror creature in what I would look for in an AvP universe.


D88M
Mar 10, 2019, 02:57:59 PM
Reply #1585 on: Mar 10, 2019, 02:57:59 PM
Q
I don't think the Alien actually benefits from an AVP story as much as the Predators do. The Alien is typically played as this ultimate prize where the Hunter(s) have to kill one to be worth a damn. Except in an AVP story the Aliens are torn down rather easily and the films make it a note that the more experienced Predator has no trouble at all until it comes to the Hybrid or Queen.

To that end it means that the Alien has less to gain from the experience than the Predator does because it ultimately becomes fodder.

The Predator however greatly benefited from an expanded mythology which also included the ultimate hybrid between the two, the PredAlien. The Predators hunting Xenomorphs becomes as a result this manhood ritual in-universe. It also benefited from the symbolism of a boy becoming a man by metaphorically claiming his penis. The Alien being this symbol of unchecked male aggression and sexual violence is used to convey that that the boy has become a man, and that in slaying the dragon he has proven himself master of his domain. He has proven him worth the respect of peers. And because this is conveyed in the subsequent films it means that the Predators get to embellish themselves. Make no mistake, this is the underlying reason the Predators are even present in the original comic. You become a man by proving your dominance. And to that end I say that works astoundingly well for the franchise which is why it was never jettisoned even after Prometheus screwed the timeline up.

So what needs to happen in an AVP 3?

The Knight needs to slay the Dragon.

The Knight needs to come in on his white horse and save the princess from the Dragon.
In short what this film needs to do is simple, have one Predator and have one Alien. The Alien is a threat because it will takeover eventually given enough time and she can spread fast which creates obstacles for the Predator. Said obstacles can be metaphors for feats the Predator must perform to gain access to the Dragons's lair (the hive). Because they take traits of their host, they really can represent that. Be it the elements, or strength, speed, courage, etc. The Predator only has to come in and prove his worth to the Princess (the clan, the humans, or himself). The Predator (the Knight) then confronts the dragon and this battle then decides if he is worthy of his honor. Does he prove himself?

To that end AVP isn't about the humans, it's about the Predator. The Predator's story is the important part which serves as the narrative catalyst, and the means to its end.

AVP 3 does not have to be this all-inspiring epic nor does it have to be straight horror. AVP is at its core a knight slaying the dragon.


This is very interesting.

AvP gets on my nerves when it becomes an excuse to show one or two action set pieces centered around humans spilling exposition.


I think the franchise as a standalone could work (discounting the Anderson and Strause AvPs) if they actually tried to establish the human characters with the pred an alien only being shown primarily working against them with maybe a few shots of the predator on it's own do to it being more relatable as a humanoid. 

Like a cross of AvP2 (game) worldbuilding mixed with the original comic.

So Noguchi is the head of a brand new WY research post that is looking at old derelict tech and suddenly finds herself actually being responsible for the facility when it comes into contact with Preds and Aliens in conflict. 

I think the concessions would have to be made.  To me the Pred universe is more macho, so you'd have to either make the Aliens universe MORE macho OR make the Predator universe more scary.  So I see the Preds being more of a horror creature in what I would look for in an AvP universe.

Yeah this is pretty much it, the focus have to be the humans for the movie to work. In fact the story that i am slooowly making is exactly what you mention, a mix of AVP2 with the original comic book and AVPR (in the sense that is a place with a population being overrun basically, nothing else)

The trick of the movie should be making good human characters and have the creatures in the background, a blend of Aliens with Predator should be ideal, with little touches of Predator 2, Alien and Alien 3, mainly an horror action suspense science fiction movie.


Space_Dementia
Mar 10, 2019, 11:52:53 PM
Reply #1586 on: Mar 10, 2019, 11:52:53 PM
Q
I've always wanted to see a adaption of sorts of AvP 2, the PC game... the game scared the life out of me and always wanted to see it recreated on the big screen... I would also like to see it purely based in space, which would make it more interesting as in how would a group of military personal try and take on a predator within the confines of a ship (without firing a bullet through the hull)...

The AVP movies we got were never the movies I really wanted as a fan, so hopefully one day we may see a reboot of these particular movies, because if done right with enough passion and talent behind them... they could be pretty darn good.



Space_Dementia
Mar 11, 2019, 12:29:16 AM
Reply #1588 on: Mar 11, 2019, 12:29:16 AM
Q
I've always wanted to see a adaption of sorts of AvP 2, the PC game... the game scared the life out of me and always wanted to see it recreated on the big screen...

You aren't the only one.  :)

I just love the slow gradual build up to the reveal of the Predator and Alien... I feel the game really captured the atmosphere and vibe of the original movies. It's been years since I played the game last, was in my early teens when I first played it and always remembered thinking "wow this would make a great movie".


The Old One
Mar 11, 2019, 12:47:36 AM
Reply #1589 on: Mar 11, 2019, 12:47:36 AM
Q
The VG's excellent but perhaps the love's half nostalgia?


 

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