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Author Topic: All Star Wars  (Read 1780605 times)

Highland
Feb 11, 2019, 11:38:49 PM
Reply #20685 on: Feb 11, 2019, 11:38:49 PM
Q
I find using super human reflexes to participate in a sport humans normally can't compete in way more impressive than marry poppinsing brooms.

Also Luke did it in Empire without any training in that regard as far as I know.

People overestimate the training aspect in SW in general. Luke is the best example. The formal training he got has to be minimal.


He still got basic lessons then he could hardly move the Saber 4 feet and that's one whole movie later. That's the whole point of Obi Wan, he's the mentor, even if it's only a few scenes.




Local Trouble
Feb 11, 2019, 11:56:49 PM
Reply #20686 on: Feb 11, 2019, 11:56:49 PM
Q
I think latter-day Star Wars placed way too much emphasis on the importance of dedicated lightsaber training.

Based on what Obi-Wan said and Luke demonstrated in ANH, I always figured that the ability to use the Force was all one needed in order to wield a lightsaber (or pilot a spaceship) with preternatural skill.

« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2019, 12:00:12 AM by Local Trouble »

Highland
Feb 12, 2019, 12:23:17 AM
Reply #20687 on: Feb 12, 2019, 12:23:17 AM
Q
I think latter-day Star Wars placed way too much emphasis on the importance of dedicated lightsaber training.

Based on what Obi-Wan said and Luke demonstrated in ANH, I always figured that the ability to use the Force was all one needed in order to wield a lightsaber (or pilot a spaceship) with preternatural skill.

Possibly. Although Dooku does say to Yoda that the battle will have to be decided via skills with the lightsaber. Also Mace Windu is clearly a notch above regular Jedi.



Vertigo
Feb 12, 2019, 12:38:33 AM
Reply #20688 on: Feb 12, 2019, 12:38:33 AM
Q
I think the point's supposed to be that lightsaber duels are about combining physical skills and Force strength. Very civilised.

(Otherwise Vader and Obi Wan's duel would just have been them trying to choke each other from opposite ends of the corridor.)


Local Trouble
Feb 12, 2019, 01:07:54 AM
Reply #20689 on: Feb 12, 2019, 01:07:54 AM
Q
The Force controls your actions and obeys your commands.  One's strength in the Force therefore determines their skill with a lightsaber.

Hell, Vader even implies as much when he taunts Obi-Wan with "your powers are weak, old man."

And by "latter-day," I meant the prequels too.


SM
Feb 12, 2019, 01:32:57 AM
Reply #20690 on: Feb 12, 2019, 01:32:57 AM
Q
Dooku says much the same in AOTC to Yoda.

And there was the deleted stuff in Empire:



SM
Feb 12, 2019, 02:00:27 AM
Reply #20692 on: Feb 12, 2019, 02:00:27 AM
Q
"It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force... but by our skills with a lightsaber."


Local Trouble
Feb 12, 2019, 02:03:39 AM
Reply #20693 on: Feb 12, 2019, 02:03:39 AM
Q
Yeah, I remember that.  I thought you meant something else.

Incidentally, the very next page from the TESB comic adaptation shows even more.  Note the captions.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2019, 02:11:27 AM by Local Trouble »

Highland
Feb 12, 2019, 04:41:35 AM
Reply #20694 on: Feb 12, 2019, 04:41:35 AM
Q
The old trilogy supports the idea that it's the force ( because Luke shouldn't be able to fight Vader), but the new films seem to indicate it's also skill.

I like a mix of both personally. I don't like the idea that the force just controls you, since that's my beef about Rey. I kinda like the whole Obi-Wan/Yoda approach.


AhabPredator
Feb 12, 2019, 09:33:50 AM
Reply #20695 on: Feb 12, 2019, 09:33:50 AM
Q
Why is force downloading a thing now? Rey and Kylo in the novelization of TLJ. Why does ththe sequel trilogy require so much extra media just to understand basic movie plot points? How can we even go forward in the franchise? Starkiller base deleted most of the New Republic. The First Order destroyed the Resistance. The heroes are down to one ship and a handful of people.  Nobody answered their distress hail. The First Order has hundreds of capital ships and millions of troopers (Star Wars Battlefront 2017 campaign and DLC)

« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2019, 09:36:32 AM by AhabPredator »

SiL
Feb 12, 2019, 09:46:29 AM
Reply #20696 on: Feb 12, 2019, 09:46:29 AM
Q
To be fair, I had no idea what the f**k was going on at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith because I didn't watch any of the shows in-between. I mean, yeah, I understood "The clone wars are still on", but that was about it. I was thrown in the middle of something and expected to give half a shit about this new Big Bad Grievous when my entire knowledge of him was "cyborg with asthma". The first mildly threatening thing he did was about halfway through the movie, if not more -- yet everyone was talking about him like he'd been in the story since Phantom Menace.


Highland
Feb 12, 2019, 10:24:28 AM
Reply #20697 on: Feb 12, 2019, 10:24:28 AM
Q
Streching it a bit there Sil. I mean he's just just the bad dude.

Saying that I didn't think I needed any extra material for the new ones because the material I got on screen was enough that I didn't like it anyway. I honestly didn't understand the whole secret plan thing the first and only time I watched it. It was only on watching youtube reviews that they all kinda brought up the same weird plot points.

Them getting put in the jail next to the only other code breaker in the universe after not meeting the only code breaker in the universe was just too space balls for me. Maybe if they cut that whole middle section out I might have handled it better lol


SiL
Feb 12, 2019, 11:10:53 AM
Reply #20698 on: Feb 12, 2019, 11:10:53 AM
Q
Streching it a bit there Sil. I mean he's just just the bad dude.
Not at all. I  walked out of the theatre feeling like I'd watched half a movie because all of the shit needed to bridge 2 and 3 happened in EU. Everyone's going on about this bad dude who does nothing terribly bad, or badass, the whole film. He's a pretty major part of the third movie, but if you haven't seen any Clone Wars stuff you don't have any idea of who he is or what he's capable of. You end up feeling like you've watched the last two acts of a story and missed a pretty major act 1.


Fiendishly Inventive
Feb 12, 2019, 11:34:58 AM
Reply #20699 on: Feb 12, 2019, 11:34:58 AM
Q
Yes, but we know where the CIS came from- what they're about and why they exist, how they were funded. As per AOTC, and to a lesser extent TPM. The only new element in ROTS is General Grievous himself, whom is the leader of the droid army- and to be perfectly honest, aside from the fact that he was a Kaleesh Warlord that joined Count Dooku for the challenge, augmenting himself until he was more machine than man- we don't know all that much about his backstory from TCW either.

But at the end of the day he's just a General with an interesting design that the baton was passed to at the last second when Dooku dies, he doesn't really matter all that much aside from being the last major figurehead to the CIS.
Which you can all gather from watching the film.

It's a different situation than the Sequels where I can't suspend my disbelief because you haven't told me how The First Order, is bigger and badder than the Empire was in every respect whilist... coming from the ruins of the Empire? Complete with an Emperor stand in, we know nothing about either- not that we necessarily needed to by it might've helped me believe in the scenario if the former two questions were answered through his motivations, and where he came from, got all this immense technology.

The New Republic has the exact same problem, but the opposite dynamic. It's just clear as day the writers ignored what logically should have happened, because they wanted their oppressive Empire Vs Rebels again- damn the world building, and that's killed my enthusiasm for the whole thing personally, because I'm not interested in any story surrounding the Sequel Trilogy mythos because frankly, I don't buy the premise.


Well, that and TLJ just generally being pretentious shit.

« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2019, 11:37:08 AM by The Old One »

 

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