I've been rewatching the first Alien movie (again) and started thinking about the egg/facehugger which Kane disturbed.
The facehugger needs an orifice of a host to be able to impregnate it. It doesn't have any way of "piercing" or burrowing its way into a host, other than via an orifice. So...
How did it instinctively know to leap towards Kane's face?
It could have been a lot more "trial and error" flailing around the general vicinity, hoping to find *any* orifice. But it didn't. It went straight for Kane's helmet/face.
(It should be noted that in our universe (and in the universe of Alien) there is no gusrantee that other life forms - if encountered - will have a mouth, lips, teeth, tongue, ears, or even a face. So the facehuggers are harming their own survival by limiting themselves to evolve with a proboscus which targets ONLY THOSE living hosts in the cosmos, that happen to have a face, mouth, esrs etc...)
(https://i.redd.it/pvbb9nxkxwr51.jpg)
Just imagine if he'd tried sitting on it.
... because he stuck his face right over the egg? The thing would have to try to miss.
Yes, but the facehugger didn't know (yet) if the object approaching the egg (Kane) had a face with an orifice (mouth) into which it could shove its proboscis.
The egg was triggered either by an interruption of the mist layer / or proximity + approach of a moving object (Kane).
Kane's space hemlet was obscured by frost/fog and even if the facehugger had eyes, it probably wouldn't - from that angle - be able to view and "aim" it's leap and proboscis insertion.
Quote from: motherfather on Jan 08, 2024, 10:10:55 PMYes, but the facehugger didn't know (yet) if the object approaching the egg (Kane) had a face with an orifice (mouth) into which it could shove its proboscis.
If you go frame by frame you'll see it just rams its tubes (there are three) right through the face plate. It then melts through said faceplate to get to the face.
Seems to me their solution to the issue of not finding a hole is to make one by force or by acid. It got lucky and just happened to land on his face.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Jan 08, 2024, 08:00:34 PMhttps://i.redd.it/pvbb9nxkxwr51.jpg
bro.......this hurt lol
Well like any parasite, it has the inbuilt instinct to go for a living organism. We don't know for sure how a facehugger navigates the world. If it is by sensing air such as carbon dioxide, it should not be able to "see" kane due to his suit.
From what we say, the suit didn't hide or mask Kane's status as a potential host. So whatever the facehugger uses to see, it is good enough to detect kane and go for his face. So it must be able to detect where to go on a living organism.
I guess if you follow alien covenant it's because David created it and knew it would be used on humans. He was waiting to use the face huggers he created in Alien C
Wild fan theory:
The Blue Mist scanned Kane and relayed the information to the egg/facehugger.
This is where I do actually like the idea of the Aliens being a bioengineered weapon designed specifically to f**k up humanoids. Whether that be David as vengeance against humanity, or the Space Jockeys/something else against something else (the Engineers?). There's a logic to that I like.
But it's a parasite and like natural parasites, I'd imagine there's a level of evolved instinct to being able to propagate naturally.
Quote from: solace97 on Jan 11, 2024, 08:07:28 PMI guess if you follow alien covenant it's because David created it and knew it would be used on humans. He was waiting to use the face huggers he created in Alien C
He didn't. He created his own version, the Praeto-Facehugger. It's bigger than the original facehugger but less mobile.
Like the one in the film that was the same size as other huggers but way faster?
Have to agree, while it has some differences, it was more or less the same size and it was very agile.
The Eggs and Facehuggers of David are just outright superior, in form and function.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jan 18, 2024, 02:00:34 PMThe Eggs and Facehuggers of David are just outright superior, in form and function.
How so on the eggs?
I find both more aesthetically pleasing than their original incarnations but particularly the Egg, the Facehugger appears to be faster in nearly every regard.
I suppose you could say the egg was better in that it didn't require a Queen. (a bit grasping I suppose) but we don't know if it required resources that were limited. There didn't seem to be too many eggs for example.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 18, 2024, 03:30:34 PMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jan 18, 2024, 02:00:34 PMThe Eggs and Facehuggers of David are just outright superior, in form and function.
How so on the eggs?
I'd agree on the hugger being superior, but not sure about the ovomorphs. They're certainly larger with morphological differences, but beyond that I didn't notice any benefits myself, unless of course regular ovomorphs can't differentiate between humans and synthetics (though we haven't seen that in any of the movies).
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Jan 18, 2024, 09:55:45 AMQuote from: solace97 on Jan 11, 2024, 08:07:28 PMI guess if you follow alien covenant it's because David created it and knew it would be used on humans. He was waiting to use the face huggers he created in Alien C
He didn't. He created his own version, the Praeto-Facehugger. It's bigger than the original facehugger but less mobile.
I mean I don't like to think he is the creator but it seems like that's what Ridley intended. It's hard to compare them saying one is larger when that just has to do with the studio prop size. I doubt that was a planned intention and is just a fan take.
It's a smidge more than a fan-take as it seems to be from the RPG. By the same token it also doesn't appear to be based on any source material.
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2024, 12:55:42 AMIt's a smidge more than a fan-take as it seems to be from the RPG. By the same token it also doesn't appear to be based on any source material.
It is indeed from the RPG.
If David made the eggs/face huggers - those are David's Eggs on the Derelict.
Same beastie.
Quote from: Highland on Jan 21, 2024, 01:26:27 AMIf David made the eggs/face huggers - those are David's Eggs on the Derelict.
Same beastie.
Where is it ever explicitly stated David invented the Alien? It not. In fact what is explicitly stated is he DIDNT create the Alien. There's a huge mural in Prometheus with an Alien/Decon on it.
It's implied he created a 'version' of the Alien.
Both Ridley Scott, the director of Covenant and the film itself says so.
Mural had a deacon, not an Alien. The black goo created things with similar characteristics. Neomorph for example.
If the mural's a Deacon or a Neomorph, it's not the Alien.
Quote from: Jonjamess on Jan 23, 2024, 12:45:52 PMQuote from: Highland on Jan 21, 2024, 01:26:27 AMIf David made the eggs/face huggers - those are David's Eggs on the Derelict.
Same beastie.
Where is it ever explicitly stated David invented the Alien? It not. In fact what is explicitly stated is he DIDNT create the Alien. There's a huge mural in Prometheus with an Alien/Decon on it.
It's implied he created a 'version' of the Alien.
The film explicitly states it.
Quote from: SM on Jan 23, 2024, 01:37:25 PMQuote from: Jonjamess on Jan 23, 2024, 12:45:52 PMQuote from: Highland on Jan 21, 2024, 01:26:27 AMIf David made the eggs/face huggers - those are David's Eggs on the Derelict.
Same beastie.
Where is it ever explicitly stated David invented the Alien? It not. In fact what is explicitly stated is he DIDNT create the Alien. There's a huge mural in Prometheus with an Alien/Decon on it.
It's implied he created a 'version' of the Alien.
The film explicitly states it.
"I found perfection here. I've created it. Perfect Organism"
Quote from: SM on Jan 23, 2024, 01:37:25 PMQuote from: Jonjamess on Jan 23, 2024, 12:45:52 PMQuote from: Highland on Jan 21, 2024, 01:26:27 AMIf David made the eggs/face huggers - those are David's Eggs on the Derelict.
Same beastie.
Where is it ever explicitly stated David invented the Alien? It not. In fact what is explicitly stated is he DIDNT create the Alien. There's a huge mural in Prometheus with an Alien/Decon on it.
It's implied he created a 'version' of the Alien.
The film explicitly states it.
The film does have an out - Walter points out that David has a funny relationship with truth and accuracy: "Byron." "Shelley."
His lies and mistakes are exposed in the film - that wasn't one of them.
Quote from: SM on Jan 24, 2024, 11:37:03 PMHis lies and mistakes are exposed in the film - that wasn't one of them.
When one note is off, it destroys the whole symphony.
Media literacy is truly dead.
Cremated, the ashes eaten by pigs and shat out.
Look to be fair someone could use that line as a way out.
Covenant doesn't.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 25, 2024, 10:18:37 AMLook to be fair someone could use that line as a way out.
Covenant doesn't.
David barely speaks a word of truth throughout
Covenant; scarcely anything he says can be taken as reality. He's entirely self-aggrandizing ("And are you that next visionary?" "I'm glad you said it.") and is likely lying about creating the Xenomorph. It is there.
In light of expanded sources, it's somewhat apparent that David succeeded where the Engineers failed in creating a Xenomorph, just not the original. He surpassed the mainline model in some respects, but fell short of it in others.
And then another pig ate the first pigs poo.
The films do not give a rats ass about the expanded material. This is not news.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 23, 2024, 02:31:56 PMQuote from: SM on Jan 23, 2024, 01:37:25 PMQuote from: Jonjamess on Jan 23, 2024, 12:45:52 PMQuote from: Highland on Jan 21, 2024, 01:26:27 AMIf David made the eggs/face huggers - those are David's Eggs on the Derelict.
Same beastie.
Where is it ever explicitly stated David invented the Alien? It not. In fact what is explicitly stated is he DIDNT create the Alien. There's a huge mural in Prometheus with an Alien/Decon on it.
It's implied he created a 'version' of the Alien.
The film explicitly states it.
"I found perfection here. I've created it. Perfect Organism"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YypOJvThyqk
Sorry just because he says he's created the perfect organism it doesn't mean he outright created the Alien and that he was the first one to do it.
He THINKS he's created the Alien because he hasn't seen any others like it. Does not at all mean they don't exist. He just hasn't come across them.
It would be like me thinking I've invented something and I'm the first because I haven't seen anything else like it in person. Doesn't mean it doesn't already exist and someone's patented it! It's just I haven't seen one!
No.
The movie walks us through his entire creation process. It's not saying he thinks he did it, it's saying he did it.
Maybe they'll change it later.
But the film is very clear in saying David makes the Alien. Not an Alien. Not his version. The Alien.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 25, 2024, 12:59:13 PMNo.
The movie walks us through his entire creation process. It's not saying he thinks he did it, it's saying he did it.
Maybe they'll change it later.
But the film is very clear in saying David makes the Alien. Not an Alien. Not his version. The Alien.
As much as I'm not sold on the idea,
this ^^^. Alien: Covenant tells us David made the Aliens. He's wrong about other things, the movie points this out. It doesn't do this when it comes to the Aliens.
There are many possible ways to retcon this in the future. Hopefully they do.
When the trailer fist hit for Prometheus a lot of people ( me included) thought that maybe David would be responsible for the Alien as in - he gets infected and the resulting organism is part alien machine part android so the idea was floating around even at the very start.
I actually like this idea better than what we got.
That's what I'm fearful Scott would do in a 3rd movie. The Space Jockey in the Derelict ends up being David inside an Engineer suit and that's how the Alien becomes biomechanical.
Yeah... no thank you.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 02, 2024, 03:28:49 PMThat's what I'm fearful Scott would do in a 3rd movie. The Space Jockey in the Derelict ends up being David inside an Engineer suit and that's how the Alien becomes biomechanical.
Yeah that's a step too far :-\ . I still would have liked to have him to complete the movies though.
I don't trust him not to do that, so I really don't want him to.
Ridley can't wait to put David in the Space Jockey suit. You can just feel it. He thinks it's going to be the ultimate masterstroke of his long career.
Hicks knows this.
That would make David breedable in a way.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 03, 2024, 06:19:36 PMRidley can't wait to put David in the Space Jockey suit. You can just feel it. He thinks it's going to be the ultimate masterstroke of his long career.
Hicks knows this.
Nah it's Tennessee in the suit. He's the pilot after all.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 02, 2024, 03:28:49 PMThat's what I'm fearful Scott would do in a 3rd movie. The Space Jockey in the Derelict ends up being David inside an Engineer suit and that's how the Alien becomes biomechanical.
If he does that in an hypothetical 3rd movie, I would burn my copies of Prometheus and Covenant
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 03, 2024, 05:41:27 PMI don't trust him not to do that, so I really don't want him to.
At this stage I'm not confident he's going to get the chance.
It's a tacky idea, just like how they linked the Engineers to humans. I wouldn't put it past Ridley to make David the Jockey, but I would at least hope he'd want to leave the first film directly untouched and not go that route.
Quote from: PsyKore on Feb 07, 2024, 11:16:54 AMIt's a tacky idea, just like how they linked the Engineers to humans. I wouldn't put it past Ridley to make David the Jockey, but I would at least hope he'd want to leave the first film directly untouched and not go that route.
According to
Alien: Icarus, David became a messianic figure among synthetics. I'd be more interested in seeing how that came about.
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Feb 07, 2024, 12:54:39 PMQuote from: PsyKore on Feb 07, 2024, 11:16:54 AMIt's a tacky idea, just like how they linked the Engineers to humans. I wouldn't put it past Ridley to make David the Jockey, but I would at least hope he'd want to leave the first film directly untouched and not go that route.
According to Alien: Icarus, David became a messianic figure among synthetics. I'd be more interested in seeing how that came about.
When I was reading it I wasn't sure that was THE David, but it makes sense.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 02, 2024, 03:28:49 PMThat's what I'm fearful Scott would do in a 3rd movie. The Space Jockey in the Derelict ends up being David inside an Engineer suit and that's how the Alien becomes biomechanical.
If Scott were to stage it like that, it would be further unbelievable and illogical.
The androids were not used as breeding grounds by the aliens in the films because they are not organic living beings.
If David were to sink into the black slime together with an alien and the biomechanical being was formed out of it, it would at least still be understandable in the context of Prometheus.
Due to the new directions, especially in Hawley's series, this will no longer be clarified anyway or will even be completely reinterpreted.
no matter how,
Everything, really everything is better than what the Strausse brothers had in mind with the Space Jockey.
I hope that they are never allowed to touch our beloved franchise again...
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2024, 03:15:50 PMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Feb 07, 2024, 12:54:39 PMQuote from: PsyKore on Feb 07, 2024, 11:16:54 AMIt's a tacky idea, just like how they linked the Engineers to humans. I wouldn't put it past Ridley to make David the Jockey, but I would at least hope he'd want to leave the first film directly untouched and not go that route.
According to Alien: Icarus, David became a messianic figure among synthetics. I'd be more interested in seeing how that came about.
When I was reading it I wasn't sure that was THE David, but it makes sense.
It's not exactly explicit and I wouldn't go as far as to say the comic depicts him as a messianic figure for them all, but they're certainly aware of a figure called David and have access to his teaching.
Quote from: Neila on Feb 08, 2024, 11:30:06 AMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 02, 2024, 03:28:49 PMThat's what I'm fearful Scott would do in a 3rd movie. The Space Jockey in the Derelict ends up being David inside an Engineer suit and that's how the Alien becomes biomechanical.
If Scott were to stage it like that, it would be further unbelievable and illogical.
The androids were not used as breeding grounds by the aliens in the films because they are not organic living beings.
If David were to sink into the black slime together with an alien and the biomechanical being was formed out of it, it would at least still be understandable in the context of Prometheus.
I'm sure it would involve him using the goo on himself in some fashion, but I wholly believe that to have been his endgame.
In spite of a plot point in Prometheus being that his immunity allowed him to use Charlie Holloway as a test subject, and the crew at large generally, to see what the stuff does?
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Feb 09, 2024, 10:04:30 AMIn spite of a plot point in Prometheus being that his immunity allowed him to use Charlie Holloway as a test subject, and the crew at large generally, to see what the stuff does?
Funnily enough, the 26 Draconis Strain can affect synthetics as well and turn them into biomechanoid Abominations, and even Perfected.
Not only do I sttongly dislike the strain concept itself, I feel that in particular just comes across as nonsensical.
Prometheus wasn't consistent on a lot of things but David touching goo with no effect was preeeeetty clear.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Feb 09, 2024, 10:09:44 AMNot only do I sttongly dislike the strain concept itself, I feel that in particular just comes across as nonsensical.
How so? It's like any pathogen or virus; it evolves and mutates, and can be tampered with.
Quote from: Neila on Feb 08, 2024, 11:30:06 AMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 02, 2024, 03:28:49 PMThat's what I'm fearful Scott would do in a 3rd movie. The Space Jockey in the Derelict ends up being David inside an Engineer suit and that's how the Alien becomes biomechanical.
If Scott were to stage it like that, it would be further unbelievable and illogical.
The androids were not used as breeding grounds by the aliens in the films because they are not organic living beings.
If David were to sink into the black slime together with an alien and the biomechanical being was formed out of it, it would at least still be understandable in the context of Prometheus.
Due to the new directions, especially in Hawley's series, this will no longer be clarified anyway or will even be completely reinterpreted.
no matter how,
Everything, really everything is better than what the Strausse brothers had in mind with the Space Jockey.
I hope that they are never allowed to touch our beloved franchise again...
What the Strausse brothers had in mind for the Space Jockey? I've never heard nothing about that, at least that I remember
Quote from: SiL on Feb 09, 2024, 10:34:02 AMPrometheus wasn't consistent on a lot of things but David touching goo with no effect was preeeeetty clear.
Alien also had pretty clear that the Derelict had thousands of years and the Space Jockey was fossilized, and Ridley gives a sh*t about that. He also established that the Facehugger needs many hours attached to a person and the Chestburster takes many hours to come out, in Alien Covenant he does all the opposite
Quote from: Slutty Badger on Feb 09, 2024, 10:57:23 AMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Feb 09, 2024, 10:09:44 AMNot only do I sttongly dislike the strain concept itself, I feel that in particular just comes across as nonsensical.
How so? It's like any pathogen or virus; it evolves and mutates, and can be tampered with.
Alternative take: please stop bringing up the RPG in film discussions as it is beyond irrelevant.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Feb 09, 2024, 10:04:30 AMIn spite of a plot point in Prometheus being that his immunity allowed him to use Charlie Holloway as a test subject, and the crew at large generally, to see what the stuff does?
It's Ridley. It doesn't matter!
Quote from: SiL on Feb 09, 2024, 11:13:40 AMQuote from: Slutty Badger on Feb 09, 2024, 10:57:23 AMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Feb 09, 2024, 10:09:44 AMNot only do I sttongly dislike the strain concept itself, I feel that in particular just comes across as nonsensical.
How so? It's like any pathogen or virus; it evolves and mutates, and can be tampered with.
Alternative take: please stop bringing up the RPG in film discussions as it is beyond irrelevant.
I think it's interesting to be aware of what the other lore is doing, as long as the poster is aware it wont impact the films.
I do think as it is, the goo can't/wouldn't have any effect on an android. That's been made abundantly clear since Prometheus.
Given all of David's experimenting before/during/presumably beyond Covenant, though, I have to imagine that the concept would have been that by "Awakening," he would have discovered some way to modify the pathogen to the point where he can use it on himself, in order for the film to end with him in the chair and being defeated by his own creation (or, depending on how they spun the "David as creator" angle, by the thing he only thought he created but had actually existed long before him).
So break the one rule Prometheus showed then? No thanks.
In the state we've seen it, the pathogen has absolutely no effect on androids or other technology. But given where things were going, and the ultimate fusion of biological and mechanical components that is the Alien, I have to imagine that some sort of in-universe alteration would have been made to the pathogen in order to allow for that marrying of properties.
I agree, still think it is a profoundly shit idea, the stuff gets allowed to do way too much as it is.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 10, 2024, 03:29:05 AMIn the state we've seen it, the pathogen has absolutely no effect on androids or other technology. But given where things were going, and the ultimate fusion of biological and mechanical components that is the Alien, I have to imagine that some sort of in-universe alteration would have been made to the pathogen in order to allow for that marrying of properties.
Yeah, but something I guess I never though about til now, the Biomechnical part of the Alien comes from us, the viewer, based on Gigers work right? It's never actually mentioned in the films. Did Riddles just start coming up with this kind of line of thought in the Prometheus?
In '79 Scott said the biomech came from the Jockey.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 14, 2024, 05:15:10 AMIn '79 Scott said the biomech came from the Jockey.
As in the Jockey is Biomech or the Aliens are Biomech because of the Jockey
Well, both. Big Chap is a mix of the Jockey and Kane.
I have the feeling that Ridley Scott no longer attaches too much importance to what he once said in 1979
about the Rulebook:
Personally, I always prefer the film source and don't pay much attention to what comics, novels or games say.
But the FL rulebook is so well done and tries to reconcile almost everything in at least a somewhat plausible way.
Of course, with the next film or series everything can go in completely different directions.
Even though I like almost all films from the alien universe, unfortunately things became more and more chaotic after the first two parts. Especially with Prometheus and Covenant.
There is simply a lack of someone to provide clear direction and sensitively monitor the Alien brand.
You can't please everyone, but it would be nice if it were planned a little more solidly.
So you move from film to film and there are always new directions about the development of the creatures.
Oh he absolutely doesn't care what he said then.
I don't think Scott cares about what he said yesterday, let alone in 79 lol.
His thoughts on any given subject seem to evolve from moment to moment.
With Prometheus and Covenant (both of which I still like) too many wrong decisions were made that it's almost impossible to explain in an acceptable way.
The rule book for the role-playing game has put a lot of effort into it and at least made it very interesting.
Unfortunately, the series will have no reference to the prequels and will do its own thing.
This means that not only will there be confusion in the canon, but also the lovingly designed version of the rule book will most likely no longer be effective.
on the other hand,
even if Scott had finished his prequel trilogy, he would most likely have the events in the existing canon
ignored
(Queen and all...)
Quote from: 426Buddy on Feb 14, 2024, 01:02:29 PMI don't think Scott cares about what he said yesterday, let alone in 79 lol.
His thoughts on any given subject seem to evolve from moment to moment.
After that, the Alien is probably biomechanical thanks to David. I don't know what he thought now, but I wouldn't be surprised if the idea crossed his mind when he was making the prequels.
(https://s13.gifyu.com/images/SCGqF.gif)
I feel like we dodged a bullet here. David being the Space Jockey from Alien is my nightmare.
It's mine too. That and Ridley direct a sequel to Covenant.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Feb 14, 2024, 04:16:14 PMI feel like we dodged a bullet here. David being the Space Jockey from Alien is my nightmare.
I wonder if he was just going to do the whole - Davids going to bomb earth thing. Seems kind of too obvious considering the massive curve balls he threw us over the years.
Seems like it. I'm pretty sure Ridley himself would bomb earth if he could do so ;D
He'd just bomb all the filthy millenials on their phones.
The big mystery regarding the Facehugger's attachment to Kane is: how did the Facehugger get under Kane's hood..or where did Kane's hood go? ..also if the limbs of the Facehugger are so corrosive that it melts Kane's visor in a fraction of a second, then why doesn't it melt Kane's face.
Movie magic I guess... ;D
Probably a mechanism that it uses specifically for going through obstacles when necessary.