Somebody once shared a tier list that was upheld by Fox as to what is and isn't canonical and for Alien, Predator, alternate cuts, comics, novels video games, and how cross overs are considered else world or something to that affect, wonder what category the novels are considered, can I ask if certain things introduced in any of the books were made canonical in any of the films after? Not counting the Alan Dean Foster Novel tie ins.
Resurrection has elements from the early Dark Horse comics insofar as they were studying caged Aliens, which every second comic was about for a while. However, there's really nothing in the film that can be directly drawn from any comic.
Films have always gone against the comics, so much so that it often seems deliberate. From killing Ripley, Hicks and Newt, saying Ripley effectively wiped the Aliens out, right the way through to the direction in which a Jockey ship flies.
With Predator it's a little more obvious with the Alien skull in the second film referencing the comics.
Quote from: SM on Nov 23, 2023, 10:09:55 PMFilms have always gone against the comics, so much so that it often seems deliberate. From killing Ripley, Hicks and Newt, saying Ripley effectively wiped the Aliens out, right the way through to the direction in which a Jockey ship flies.
But the Big Deletion though.
It was more a Small to Medium Deletion.
It was fr a mid deletion, no cap.
Is there a way to explain how the "Modern" EU in the late 2190ties and 2200-ties forgot the Earth invasion from 2189?
But about making it to the films, I guess Predator 2 was influenced by Predator: Concrete Jungle, and of course, AvP was similar to the first AvP comics.
Alien: Isolation was very influential, but mostly for other EU. But, some references might end up in Alien: Romulus.
I can't conceive of any way to reconcile the current EU and an Earth invasion. Although it was being planned at one point with a bunch of invasion related stories (a la World War Z among other things). There would have been room for the United Systems to memory hole the entire thing and reduce it to conspiracy theory by the time of Resurrection.
Yeah, it never happened.
Aliens The Original Series and William Gibson's Alien³ are alternate continuities to the films as far as I'm concerned.
They do not fit, no point in trying to make them fit, they exist in the context of Alien 1979 and Aliens 1986 as released before 1992 and nothing further.
I feel that people remember things with rose-tinted nostalgia goggles sometimes... I re-read Aliens the Original Series recently (first time since loving it as a kid)... it's pretty damn terrible to be honest. 😅 It amuses me when still seeing people cite this as what we "should have had" over Alien 3...
It also... just ends, without a proper resolution, and the other alternate take released after the fact just ends up being confused and diluting the Alien.
I easily prefer what we got.
Quote from: XENOMORPHOSIS on Nov 23, 2023, 03:19:10 PMSomebody once shared a tier list that was upheld by Fox as to what is and isn't canonical and for Alien, Predator, alternate cuts, comics, novels video games, and how cross overs are considered else world or something to that affect, wonder what category the novels are considered, can I ask if certain things introduced in any of the books were made canonical in any of the films after? Not counting the Alan Dean Foster Novel tie ins.
Romulus may be the first Alien from to introduce some things; otherwise no, the films haven't taken anything from the EU.
Predator 2 made AvP a thing and obviously the AvP films stem from that original idea. It also basically adapted the first issue of
Concrete Jungle but developed it in a different direction.
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Nov 26, 2023, 11:44:57 AMI feel that people remember things with rose-tinted nostalgia goggles sometimes... I re-read Aliens the Original Series recently (first time since loving it as a kid)... it's pretty damn terrible to be honest. 😅 It amuses me when still seeing people cite this as what we "should have had" over Alien 3...
The sad thing is
Alien 3 was pretty much the best outcome of all the proposed sequels. It was the only one that felt like they didn't just say f**k it and go off the rails completely.
Yep.
I can still appreciate a lot of what the OG comics did even after all this time and I still think the first two series are among the best Dark Horse produced but it's much easier to see the problems now and the third series really went off the rails.
But Sam Kieth though.
Because Sam Kieth though.
I love them for what they are but there was always things I didn't like about them. I missed out on Earth War when I was a kid thankfully. When I started collecting again in my late 20's I finally picked it up and was pretty shocked at how bad it was.
However, there was another comic I missed out on as a kid... DotS!! Growing up I weaved a story in my head based only on the cover art of this series, I always loved that art. Never could I imagine that it was even worse than Earth War, pure nonsense.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Nov 26, 2023, 11:48:25 PMHowever, there was another comic I missed out on as a kid... DotS!! Growing up I weaved a story in my head based only on the cover art of this series, I always loved that art. Never could I imagine that it was even worse than Earth War, pure nonsense.
Can you explain it to me?
Their is no explanation, it can only be experienced.
DotS?
AvP: The Deadliest of the Species
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 27, 2023, 03:36:58 PMAvP: The Deadliest of the Species
Thanks Corporal... I had a brain fart 🤣 (you wouldn't think I'd only just re-read that one less than a month ago!)
Wait I thought everybody likes aliens earth wars. Like the comic earth wars? This is all new to me.
I get the appeal, but I'm not really hot on the Earth War stuff. Same applies to the followup run, despite my username here deriving from it (as a kid I read the Perry novelizations and dug them [I hadn't yet read the comics at that point], hence going with "Nightmare Asylum" for a name here, but my overall enjoyment of those stories in both their original Newt/Hicks comic form and Billie/Wilks novel form has waned over the years. NA's comic art is pretty rad, though).
I agree that the comic art was great it was back when people actually put an effort into the art rather than Greg land
Even Sam Keith got some redemption on the art front, with his work on Inhuman Condition (which is one of the very best of Dark Horse's output IMO).
He was, iirc, a very popular artist at the time. He just didn't suit Alien - until Inhuman Condition.
I have never read Inhuman Condition.
I never even read DOTS and I personally think it's the best story dark horses ever made 8)
Be upset you know I'm right
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 27, 2023, 05:35:46 PMI never even read DOTS and I personally think it's the best story dark horses ever made 8)
Be upset you know I'm right
You could be right for all I know. I don't even understand DotS and no one will sufficiently explain it to me. :(
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 27, 2023, 06:02:26 PMQuote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 27, 2023, 05:35:46 PMI never even read DOTS and I personally think it's the best story dark horses ever made 8)
Be upset you know I'm right
You could be right for all I know. I don't even understand DotS and no one will sufficiently explain it to me. :(
"Clearly you don't have the high enough IQ to understand this magnificent item" - Rick and Morty fan
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 27, 2023, 04:20:33 PMEven Sam Keith got some redemption on the art front, with his work on Inhuman Condition (which is one of the very best of Dark Horse's output IMO).
The art was rubbish on that too. It just had better writing that Earth War.
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Nov 27, 2023, 03:48:49 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 27, 2023, 03:36:58 PMAvP: The Deadliest of the Species
Thanks Corporal... I had a brain fart 🤣 (you wouldn't think I'd only just re-read that one less than a month ago!)
That's just your brain protecting you.
Is that why you won't explain it to me? Is DotS a cognitohazard?
Quote from: SM on Nov 27, 2023, 10:04:23 PMQuote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 27, 2023, 04:20:33 PMEven Sam Keith got some redemption on the art front, with his work on Inhuman Condition (which is one of the very best of Dark Horse's output IMO).
The art was rubbish on that too. It just had better writing that Earth War.
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Nov 27, 2023, 03:48:49 PMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 27, 2023, 03:36:58 PMAvP: The Deadliest of the Species
Thanks Corporal... I had a brain fart 🤣 (you wouldn't think I'd only just re-read that one less than a month ago!)
That's just your brain protecting you.
Yup, instant memory wipe 🤣
A Big Deletion to the brain is the only defence.
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 27, 2023, 05:35:46 PMI never even read DOTS and I personally think it's the best story dark horses ever made 8)
Be upset you know I'm right
You should buy a first edition trade paperback. You'll love it.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 27, 2023, 10:54:14 PMQuote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 27, 2023, 05:35:46 PMI never even read DOTS and I personally think it's the best story dark horses ever made 8)
Be upset you know I'm right
You should buy a first edition trade paperback. You'll love it.
It's a classic... up there with Aliens vs Predator vs The Terminator...
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 27, 2023, 10:54:14 PMQuote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 27, 2023, 05:35:46 PMI never even read DOTS and I personally think it's the best story dark horses ever made 8)
Be upset you know I'm right
You should buy a first edition trade paperback. You'll love it.
Alright for I can't judge the book since I never read it but the white hybrid things that was made by the AI... what? Aren't all xenomorph hybrid in some form.
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 27, 2023, 11:03:14 PMAren't all xenomorph hybrid in some form.
Most of them don't talk or have rayguns.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 27, 2023, 11:04:53 PMQuote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 27, 2023, 11:03:14 PMAren't all xenomorph hybrid in some form.
Most of them don't talk or have rayguns.
And sword duel, man that concept is a lot dumber I remember. You know what would have work, remember that scene with failed experiments in Alien Resurrection
Nah, it wouldn't have worked at all with the rest of the story. The Bugmen fit in perfectly, that just tells you how f**ked the rest is.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 27, 2023, 11:56:51 PMNah, it wouldn't have worked at all with the rest of the story. The Bugmen fit in perfectly, that just tells you how f**ked the rest is.
But Spaghetti Bastard rank the hybrid king in Filth (better if you weren't born) (https://64.media.tumblr.com/998dac9ad113dee52ab0f923eaf34eb7/tumblr_pvcl0vue9B1qjabr0o1_1280.pnj) if that were the better part of the comic, how bad is the rest D:
No, it wasn't the better part of the story. I'm saying the story is so fundamentally broken and deranged that having a more sensible form of hybrid like the failed clones in Rez would have felt out of place, because there's not even an Alien or Predator narrative there to improve on.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 28, 2023, 12:47:29 AMNo, it wasn't the better part of the story. I'm saying the story is so fundamentally broken and deranged that having a more sensible form of hybrid like the failed clones in Rez would have felt out of place, because there's not even an Alien or Predator narrative there to improve on.
Oh god (https://i.imgflip.com/5rvbls.png)
Does this need a full rewrite to be good
No. It should just be forgotten entirely, except as the butt of an occasional joke.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 28, 2023, 01:06:12 AMNo. It should just be forgotten entirely, except as the butt of an occasional joke.
Seconded.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 28, 2023, 01:06:12 AMNo. It should just be forgotten entirely, except as the butt of an occasional joke.
Jesus is there anything worse than this comic?
Xenogenesis gives it a bit of a run for it's money, but even that has a vaguely coherent storyline.
Quote from: SM on Nov 27, 2023, 10:04:23 PMQuote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 27, 2023, 04:20:33 PMEven Sam Keith got some redemption on the art front, with his work on Inhuman Condition (which is one of the very best of Dark Horse's output IMO).
The art was rubbish on that too. It just had better writing that Earth War.
Not that I'm one to come to Sam Keith's defense but his style just suited that comic perfectly. It was a perfect match up.
I said what I said.
that art fits the story with the lead character not being quite there in the sanity department.
Anyway.
Let's put Queenscode in the movies. it's time.
Quote from: SM on Nov 28, 2023, 11:06:26 AMI said what I said.
I stand by my statement 100% as well. The style fits with the lead having a warped and distorted view on reality. It's better on a second read when you know that though.
I wonder how Earth War would be viewed today if Denis Beauvais had done the art for it.
"That story was quack but man it's pretty".
Quote from: SiL on Nov 28, 2023, 08:34:47 PM"That story was quack but man it's pretty".
Pretty much. It certainly would have been easier to stomach.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 28, 2023, 04:01:25 PMQuote from: SM on Nov 28, 2023, 11:06:26 AMI said what I said.
I stand by my statement 100% as well. The style fits with the lead having a warped and distorted view on reality. It's better on a second read when you know that though.
I've read it a number of times and the art is still awful. Sandman also has distorted views of reality and his art on that is rubbish too.
Everyone is better at drawing comics than Sam Kieth.*
* - except Tracey Larocca.
* - and Tracey Land
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Nov 26, 2023, 11:02:45 AMYeah, it never happened.
Aliens The Original Series and William Gibson's Alien³ are alternate continuities to the films as far as I'm concerned.
They do not fit, no point in trying to make them fit, they exist in the context of Alien 1979 and Aliens 1986 as released before 1992 and nothing further.
I think the Alien RPG handles it well - planets, people, organizations, locations, and some events are canon, broader things like the Aliens infesting earth are not.