Poll
Question:
Should normal Aliens have the capability of moulting into Queens?
Option 1: Screw the facehugger, only moulting!
votes: 0
Option 2: Preferably moulting or growing, but Royal Facehugger is fine
votes: 2
Option 3: Either or works
votes: 8
Option 4: Only in certain circumstances can moulting work
votes: 3
Option 5: Stick with the Royal Facehugger
votes: 5
Basically what it says on the tin.
As anyone whose read any of my numerous forum posts knows by now, I'm weirdly obsessed with Gender or Hive dichotomy regarding Aliens; It can be a fun topic, if not a bit unnecessary and sometimes outright confusing with so much superfluous supplementary material and conflicting trains of thought. I guess part of this stems from conundrum-In multiple cases, especially AVP 2010, we see Aliens capable of making the jump from the normal Warrior to the Queen, sometimes with the Praetorian as a sort of 'Middle Ground'. Personally, barring the exception of Six who was really just an exceptional Alien anyways, I'm not a fan of Aliens having the capability to turn into Queens-It both feels like it cheapens the actual value of a real Queen as well as the versatility or use of the Warrior or any of its many variations (ie why have a bunch of Warriors when you can have a whole HIVE of egg laying monsters?)
So what do you guys think? Should Aliens be able to morph into a Queen as a rule, as an exception, or should we stick with the Royal Facehugger and Royal Jelly? In addition, what do you guys think would be a cool route or development of the Warriors themselves if they can't morph into Queens?
Nah. The way it works in the films is fine.
In the EU, yes.
In the films, no.
I'm personally not against an Alien becoming a Queen given that it is supposed to be under specific circumstances anyways. Under normal circumstances the born Queen would be the one in charge but if someone has to take over, they do (as seen in Defiance). And otherwise it's noted that it's not something that can just happen, it does take a period of time before they become Queens. Some real insects have a life-cycle where it accounts for the death of a Queen and they can create another. It's not unheard of in nature.
So I'm not against it, but it should only happen under specific circumstances like;
-Lack of an existing Hive (one lone Alien)
-A dead Queen with a lack of Royal Facehuggers
-Through a Praetorian (which is basically what the old EU did) so not everyone is going to freak-out and molt at once
My head canon is that the eggmorphing method creates a Queen bearing egg, and this is the only way that normal Aliens have to propagate.
No.
I prefer the Royal Egg,
Royal Facehugger, Royal Adult.
Alien Propogation sequence.
Preferably moulting or growing, but Royal Facehugger is fine... mostly.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 06, 2019, 03:38:17 PM
Preferably moulting or growing, but Royal Facehugger is fine... mostly.
I see that Aliens reference
I prefer moulting as a concept, but as the films have already gone with a distinct royal caste, adding more just muddies things.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 06, 2019, 09:01:12 PM
I prefer moulting as a concept, but as the films have already gone with a distinct royal caste, adding more just muddies things.
It can be a bit confusing, but I think there can be a sort of happy medium between the two, like what has been suggested above.
Without a hive to establish I also see the possibility for the lone Adult to develop into a Royal form, or Eggmorph a host to create a Royal Egg containing a Royal Facehugger, containing the Royal variation of Plagarius Preapotents. But overall I prefer the standard method of creation.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 06, 2019, 10:08:33 PM
Without a hive to establish I also see the possibility for either the lone Adult developing into a Royal form, or Eggmorphing a host to create a Royal Egg containing a Royal Facehugger, containing the Royal variation of Plagarius Preapotents. But overall I prefer the standard method of creation.
I think for once we can agree then!
I agree with you on a lot, I think.
Quote from: Kenner_Alien_Kaste on Aug 06, 2019, 09:59:50 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 06, 2019, 09:01:12 PM
I prefer moulting as a concept, but as the films have already gone with a distinct royal caste, adding more just muddies things.
It can be a bit confusing, but I think there can be a sort of happy medium between the two, like what has been suggested above.
It's not so much that it's confusing as it is messy, it's not hard to keep track of or even reconcile the ideas (ie; not confusing), more that the films have established something and i'm not eager to see it diluted. I'll use one, both or neither option for my own purposes, as I please, but that's in the sandbox of pen and paper RPGs. Keep it simple in films and licensed media though.
In terms of the films, we wont ever see any growth and molting occur since it's just too long a process.
Sure we could have that for the final act but then that leads to issues with the creature being beaten mere moments after it's born or the narrative trip of "why didn't you just lead with that?".
Sure we expect the regular Aliens to grow quicker, but the Queen is much larger than the others and we can just have a Queen, we don't need to see the molting or growth occur just like we don't need to see the standard Alien do it. To me it comes off pedantic to show everything about the process when the GA gets it anyways and existing media doesn't seem to give a shit one way or the other how we get a Queen. It's just messy when we could cut right to the chase. It's pretty much why it'll only show up in whatever we're calling continuity today since novels, games, and comics, get more time to work with and so can show a process.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 06, 2019, 10:40:54 PM
I agree with you on a lot, I think.
Sorry, that came across as really rude on my end-I guess I felt a lot of my ideas and such tend to go against the grain of what you tend to think/agree upon (ie Fire and Stone was cool vs Fire and Stone was garbage) Granted, a lot of my ideas can leave something to be desired so I'm probably being unfair here, but I just sorta noticed that in some topics we tend to disagree. Then again it wouldn't be a discussion if we didn't disagree and therein we can have conversation. Regardless, I think you hit the nail on the head regarding the whole issue of molting or eggmorphing
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 06, 2019, 10:55:28 PM
Quote from: Kenner_Alien_Kaste on Aug 06, 2019, 09:59:50 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 06, 2019, 09:01:12 PM
I prefer moulting as a concept, but as the films have already gone with a distinct royal caste, adding more just muddies things.
It can be a bit confusing, but I think there can be a sort of happy medium between the two, like what has been suggested above.
It's not so much that it's confusing as it is messy, it's not hard to keep track of or even reconcile the ideas (ie; not confusing), more that the films have established something and i'm not eager to see it diluted. I'll use one, both or neither option for my own purposes, as I please, but that's in the sandbox of pen and paper RPGs. Keep it simple in films and licensed media though.
In hindsight I should have said messy, yeah.
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Aug 06, 2019, 11:37:07 PM
In terms of the films, we wont ever see any growth and molting occur since it's just too long a process.
Sure we could have that for the final act but then that leads to issues with the creature being beaten mere moments after it's born or the narrative trip of "why didn't you just lead with that?".
Sure we expect the regular Aliens to grow quicker, but the Queen is much larger than the others and we can just have a Queen, we don't need to see the molting or growth occur just like we don't need to see the standard Alien do it. To me it comes off pedantic to show everything about the process when the GA gets it anyways and existing media doesn't seem to give a shit one way or the other how we get a Queen. It's just messy when we could cut right to the chase. It's pretty much why it'll only show up in whatever we're calling continuity today since novels, games, and comics, get more time to work with and so can show a process.
It also begs the question of what novels and books and games are more 'canon'-Do we make them canon because of tone, author affiliation (ie are they with Fox or not?) personal views, realism, etc? I probably oughta know the answer to this (tone compared to films and author affiliation) but I've seen differing opinions so I'unno.
Oh it is garbage I think, but I yet believe the majority of your posting worth my time, agree or disagree with the hypothesis you submit. Your idea conceptualisation is often as good as possible in my opinion but a number of them I won't agree with regardless of the excellent presentation.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 07, 2019, 01:12:54 AM
Oh it is garbage I think, but I yet believe the majority of your posting worth my time, agree or disagree with the hypothesis you submit. Your idea conceptualisation is often as good as possible in my opinion but a number of them I won't agree with regardless of the excellent presentation.
That's honestly fair-The fact you consider them at all is touching imo
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 07, 2019, 01:12:54 AM
Oh it is garbage I think, but I yet believe the majority of your posting worth my time, agree or disagree with the hypothesis you submit. Your idea conceptualisation is often as good as possible in my opinion but a number of them I won't agree with regardless of the excellent presentation.
Yeah this.
Not gunna lie, when I saw your user name Kenner, I thought "oh for f**k's sake, here we go" but it turns out you're using a lot of really well researched and sensible ideas in your posts.
I genuinely enjoy them, even though you may have noticed I prefer neat ideas like yours to be part of a mystery toolbox rather than the more codified take you go for - however I'd have no cool stuff to steal for my mystery toolbox if it wasn't for theory-crafters such as yourself, so fair play and keep at it.
And since your name has Kenner in it and I always like to post my work in any thread I can, please enjoy these 28mm miniature recreations of the Kenner Gorilla, Boar and Panther Aliens:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/gzp0xRR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nTkUdVE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nUpo8sa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/R8VO1ur.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cT1RSya.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IOlcmtr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/53RXT9r.jpg)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 06, 2019, 01:13:21 PM
My head canon is that the eggmorphing method creates a Queen bearing egg, and this is the only way that normal Aliens have to propagate.
Yeah, that's my main theory too. But wasn't another egg morphing scene planned for Alien 3?
It was in the script and they even build a prop for a new cocoon.
So, maybe a Xeno is able to do this, even with a (embryonic) queen around. Could be that a mature queen releases a hormone that stops the drones and warriors from doing this...
Gesendet von meinem TA-1053 mit Tapatalk
I think it's only logical.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 07, 2019, 08:22:48 AM
Yeah this.
Not gunna lie, when I saw your user name Kenner, I thought "oh for f**k's sake, here we go" but it turns out you're using a lot of really well researched and sensible ideas in your posts.
I genuinely enjoy them, even though you may have noticed I prefer neat ideas like yours to be part of a mystery toolbox rather than the more codified take you go for - however I'd have no cool stuff to steal for my mystery toolbox if it wasn't for theory-crafters such as yourself, so fair play and keep at it.
And since your name has Kenner in it and I always like to post my work in any thread I can, please enjoy these 28mm miniature recreations of the Kenner Gorilla, Boar and Panther Aliens:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/gzp0xRR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nTkUdVE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nUpo8sa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/R8VO1ur.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cT1RSya.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IOlcmtr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/53RXT9r.jpg)
Thank you, I enjoy the theory crafting myself-And I guess that is part of what's so great about the franchise. With so much supplementary material to work with as well as a basis in Science Fiction, you can come up with some pretty nifty stuff that still can make sense and doesn't break Canon too bad (especially if you try to take the time to apply it tonally) I guess that's kinda what's great about Xenomorphs-They're such Swiss Army Knives of sexuality, insects, and lovecraftian horror that their utility/versatility is near endless, and is probably what's kept them so timeless.
Quote from: Doctor Ash on Aug 07, 2019, 01:08:11 PM
Yeah, that's my main theory too. But wasn't another egg morphing scene planned for Alien 3?
It was in the script and they even build a prop for a new cocoon.
So, maybe a Xeno is able to do this, even with a (embryonic) queen around. Could be that a mature queen releases a hormone that stops the drones and warriors from doing this...
Gesendet von meinem TA-1053 mit Tapatalk
I had actually come up with a workaround/Theory around that to keep that from happening (or at least nullify the chances of another Queen in case of defectors to the Hive) that's been posted in my old 'King' thread.
Agreed, that- and H.R Giger's timeless design.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 07, 2019, 01:35:44 PM
Agreed, that- and H.R Giger's timeless design.
The amount of knockoffs and imitators it has spawned is almost unreal.
As expected, honestly.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 07, 2019, 11:55:24 PM
As expected, honestly.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind having moulting being implemented regularly if there is either a catalyst for it (ie lots of Royal Jelly or similar secretions) and for a way to expand upon the dynamic and ramifications that this would have. For example, a Hive COULD in theory hold more than one Queen or reproductive Alien, but the matter of space and the lack of relatedness between Warriors and Drones born from Workers means that the more distantly related workers could start fighting, or outright trying to dethrone the current Queen (or her Princesses/Praetorians). Which is where I got the idea of the sterilized/pseudo-male Ergatoid caste from; They had been evolved as enforcers of the current Queen's rule. Big, territorial Xenos buffed up on a secretion/pheromone that acts like a steroid and evolves her more trusted Warriors in a way that ensures they don't pose a threat of moulting into a Queen and help to sniff out and destroy any defecting Xenomorphs or Royal Eggs that hadn't been lain by the current Queen. This in turn could extend to acting as undertakers in regard to diseased Xenomorphs, or be extended via spraying or smearing the traitorous Aliens with pheromones so the loyal daughters go into a frenzy and tear the smeared one apart (and maybe some humans can try and use this against the Hive by smattering the Queen or her own personal clutch with the substance, making her Inquisitors/Centurions turn on her)
Ironically, something similar had been done via Prodos Games' Royal Guard Xenomorphs-Immature/not true Praetorians, with only some of them having the capability of turning into a Queen (or that the Royal Guards are more 'false' versions of the Praetorians). All things considered, I think they did a good job-They have a lot of variety while still sticking to a two caste system (Stalkers/Crushers are basically Warriors born from a Quadrepedal host, and act as such. The Monstrosity/The King is basically that-a humongous chimera of freakish proportions built to be a humongous and deadly force that is still second to the Queen). At the very least, I can appreciate them trying to do something with the Hive dynamic in a unique way that adds to the competitive survivalist nature of the creatures that doesn't fall into Kennerization.
Indeed, I myself though always thought the Alien race hibernated underground after a planetary victory, pushing other species to near extinction and waiting until the planet repopulated to do it again, and the behaviour is applicable to any area, even galactically speaking.
Quote from: Kenner_Alien_Kaste on Aug 08, 2019, 02:43:42 AM
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 07, 2019, 11:55:24 PM
As expected, honestly.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind having moulting being implemented regularly if there is either a catalyst for it (ie lots of Royal Jelly or similar secretions) and for a way to expand upon the dynamic and ramifications that this would have. For example, a Hive COULD in theory hold more than one Queen or reproductive Alien, but the matter of space and the lack of relatedness between Warriors and Drones born from Workers means that the more distantly related workers could start fighting, or outright trying to dethrone the current Queen (or her Princesses/Praetorians). Which is where I got the idea of the sterilized/pseudo-male Ergatoid caste from; They had been evolved as enforcers of the current Queen's rule. Big, territorial Xenos buffed up on a secretion/pheromone that acts like a steroid and evolves her more trusted Warriors in a way that ensures they don't pose a threat of moulting into a Queen and help to sniff out and destroy any defecting Xenomorphs or Royal Eggs that hadn't been lain by the current Queen. This in turn could extend to acting as undertakers in regard to diseased Xenomorphs, or be extended via spraying or smearing the traitorous Aliens with pheromones so the loyal daughters go into a frenzy and tear the smeared one apart (and maybe some humans can try and use this against the Hive by smattering the Queen or her own personal clutch with the substance, making her Inquisitors/Centurions turn on her)
Ironically, something similar had been done via Prodos Games' Royal Guard Xenomorphs-Immature/not true Praetorians, with only some of them having the capability of turning into a Queen (or that the Royal Guards are more 'false' versions of the Praetorians). All things considered, I think they did a good job-They have a lot of variety while still sticking to a two caste system (Stalkers/Crushers are basically Warriors born from a Quadrepedal host, and act as such. The Monstrosity/The King is basically that-a humongous chimera of freakish proportions built to be a humongous and deadly force that is still second to the Queen). At the very least, I can appreciate them trying to do something with the Hive dynamic in a unique way that adds to the competitive survivalist nature of the creatures that doesn't fall into Kennerization.
Does this not strike you as unnecessarily complicated?
Quote from: SM on Aug 08, 2019, 04:12:14 AM
Does this not strike you as unnecessarily complicated?
I'll admit it kind of is a bit on the complex side in all fairness, but I found it cool and a way to expand upon the Hive dynamic without deviating too much from the 'two-caste' system people seem to prefer. That, and the Aliens and their entire 'dynamic' and how they tick is complex as hell-A long and lengthy process to produce an egg to make a facehugger that has to find a host and produce a viable adult, not even getting into the different ways an egg can come to be, or who even gets to MAKE the egg given moulting and eggmorphing are all 'viable'. In my opinion, having bodyguards that are completely loyal to you and ensure your genetic bloodline survives above all else seems like a solid survival strategy, and no more complex than anything else the Aliens do.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 08, 2019, 04:04:02 AM
Indeed, I myself though always thought the Alien race hibernated underground after a planetary victory, pushing other species to near extinction and waiting until the planet repopulated to do it again, and the behaviour is applicable to any area, even galactically speaking.
That's actually pretty smart, and makes a lot of sense. This actually occurs in certain species of i/Ea usocial Insects, where instead of the Queen leaving her brood to die in the cold or lack of resources the entire Hive rests/overwinters, with some of the Royal/Alate breeds helping to keep the workers and each other fed via regurgitating/sharing food. It's almost heartwarming...if not still disgusting and bad for everyone else involved.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 08, 2019, 04:04:02 AM
Indeed, I myself though always thought the Alien race hibernated underground after a planetary victory, pushing other species to near extinction and waiting until the planet repopulated to do it again, and the behaviour is applicable to any area, even galactically speaking.
That's a cool idea, I heard similar stuff before, always liked it's implication. That's some Lovecraftian cosmic horror potential right there. How many times has our galaxy been stripped away to the bone, lifeless, only to let us (and the few other sentient species) grow again to a space-faring civilization as the aliens wake up again to repeat the cycle.
Oh, Destroying Angels, how I miss you... The Tyranids in 40k are a ripoff of the aliens in more ways than one and yet they got the cosmic horror aspect down quite well.
I don't care for the story myself, but I like the concept as you describe it. Countless, and very Lovecraftian indeed.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 08, 2019, 11:58:05 AM
I don't care for the story myself, but I like the concept as you describe it. Countless, and very Lovecraftian indeed.
It's kind of like a folk-tale of sorts; The survivors begin to forget as they try to forge a new life from the ruined planet. And over time, it works...they start to rebuild, even prosper a little, and the legends of monstrous beasts that dragged off innocent people in the night become known more as wive's tales....and then they return.
Also, Tyranids are awesome.
Absolutely.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 08, 2019, 01:41:24 PM
Absolutely.
Truth be told I'm half tempted to try and write a fan-story with any of my brainstorms-I don't know how actually good it would be or well received it would be, but it might be a fun experiment.
I hope the studio eventually utilizes the idea.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 08, 2019, 02:04:19 PM
I hope the studio eventually utilizes the idea.
I'm honestly not sure what they're gonna do
Nobody is.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 08, 2019, 03:25:18 PM
Nobody is.
SM's got a Fox connection so I've heard-Maybe they know what's up.
I doubt it, everything is being turned over I think. Rebuilt from the ground up.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 08, 2019, 04:00:02 PM
I doubt it, everything is being turned over I think. Rebuilt from the ground up.
I'm honestly excited for what that could mean-but as much as I'm interested I The new direction I do hope fans of the old series and my this aren't forgotten entirely.
QuoteI'll admit it kind of is a bit on the complex side in all fairness, but I found it cool and a way to expand upon the Hive dynamic without deviating too much from the 'two-caste' system people seem to prefer. That, and the Aliens and their entire 'dynamic' and how they tick is complex as hell-A long and lengthy process to produce an egg to make a facehugger that has to find a host and produce a viable adult, not even getting into the different ways an egg can come to be, or who even gets to MAKE the egg given moulting and eggmorphing are all 'viable'. In my opinion, having bodyguards that are completely loyal to you and ensure your genetic bloodline survives above all else seems like a solid survival strategy, and no more complex than anything else the Aliens do.
But this seems like talking it up to be complex when it isn't.
Eggs aren't a big deal - the Queen lays them, or at a pinch a host can be morphed if we go down that road, which takes a couple of hours or so.
Adult Aliens come from a host in under 24 hours.
And there doesn't need to be a special caste of 'loyal bodyguard' when an normal adult can do the job.
Quote from: SM on Aug 08, 2019, 05:29:48 PM
QuoteI'll admit it kind of is a bit on the complex side in all fairness, but I found it cool and a way to expand upon the Hive dynamic without deviating too much from the 'two-caste' system people seem to prefer. That, and the Aliens and their entire 'dynamic' and how they tick is complex as hell-A long and lengthy process to produce an egg to make a facehugger that has to find a host and produce a viable adult, not even getting into the different ways an egg can come to be, or who even gets to MAKE the egg given moulting and eggmorphing are all 'viable'. In my opinion, having bodyguards that are completely loyal to you and ensure your genetic bloodline survives above all else seems like a solid survival strategy, and no more complex than anything else the Aliens do.
But this seems like talking it up to be complex when it isn't.
Eggs aren't a big deal - the Queen lays them, or at a pinch a host can be morphed if we go down that road, which takes a couple of hours or so.
Adult Aliens come from a host in under 24 hours.
And there doesn't need to be a special caste of 'loyal bodyguard' when an normal adult can do the job.
I was going under the idea of having a very large Hive that could be undergoing turmoil or interspecific competition (like how the red army was formed from defecting Aliens). And the idea of reverse-castrati xenomorphs seemed appropriately twisted for the job (strong workers that ensure your lineage stays safe and can't turn against you by becoming Queens)
"Reverse-castrati" is the kind of thing I'm talking about with overcomplicating it.
The Genocide faction scenario isn't too out there because two new Queens rose at the same time to replace the departed Queen.
That aside - why would they compete?
Quote from: Kenner_Alien_Kaste on Aug 08, 2019, 01:37:10 PM
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 08, 2019, 11:58:05 AM
I don't care for the story myself, but I like the concept as you describe it. Countless, and very Lovecraftian indeed.
It's kind of like a folk-tale of sorts; The survivors begin to forget as they try to forge a new life from the ruined planet. And over time, it works...they start to rebuild, even prosper a little, and the legends of monstrous beasts that dragged off innocent people in the night become known more as wive's tales....and then they return.
Also, Tyranids are awesome.
Sounds like Old One Eye.
Quote from: SM on Aug 08, 2019, 06:31:10 PM
"Reverse-castrati" is the kind of thing I'm talking about with overcomplicating it.
The Genocide faction scenario isn't too out there because two new Queens rose at the same time to replace the departed Queen.
That aside - why would they compete?
Y'know what you're right, this was a bit over the top. Thanks for talking me down from it. Sorry about making a mess of it.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 08, 2019, 07:16:26 PM
Quote from: Kenner_Alien_Kaste on Aug 08, 2019, 01:37:10 PM
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 08, 2019, 11:58:05 AM
I don't care for the story myself, but I like the concept as you describe it. Countless, and very Lovecraftian indeed.
It's kind of like a folk-tale of sorts; The survivors begin to forget as they try to forge a new life from the ruined planet. And over time, it works...they start to rebuild, even prosper a little, and the legends of monstrous beasts that dragged off innocent people in the night become known more as wive's tales....and then they return.
Also, Tyranids are awesome.
Sounds like Old One Eye.
Old One Eye's awesome, but I always liked the Swarmlord (for obvious reasons)
QuoteY'know what you're right, this was a bit over the top. Thanks for talking me down from it. Sorry about making a mess of it.
Apologies are entirely unnecessary. :)
Quote from: SM on Aug 08, 2019, 11:25:50 PM
QuoteY'know what you're right, this was a bit over the top. Thanks for talking me down from it. Sorry about making a mess of it.
Apologies are entirely unnecessary. :)
I still kinda feel bad-Like, I worry I come across as this complete moron spouting stupid ideas that really only piss everyone else off. So if nothing else the fact I don't annoy you or piss you off is honestly pretty nice.
You're not pissing anyone off so stop second guessing yourself. Discussing ideas can lead to better ideas.
Indeed. It does.
Quote from: SM on Aug 09, 2019, 12:23:37 AM
You're not pissing anyone off so stop second guessing yourself. Discussing ideas can lead to better ideas.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 09, 2019, 01:22:04 AM
Indeed. It does.
Thanks-I guess I'm just unreasonably paranoid. Here's hoping one of my ideas strikes home.
Yes, I hope so.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 09, 2019, 02:48:05 AM
Yes, I hope so.
Same here-Although I admit I worry I'm beating a dead horse
Quote from: Kenner_Alien_Kaste on Aug 09, 2019, 02:03:40 AM
Here's hoping one of my ideas strikes home.
I'm definitely inspired/will steal elements from them for my own projects.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 09, 2019, 08:20:36 AM
I'm definitely inspired/will steal elements from them for my own projects.
If nothing else, that means a lot to me
Excellent. I say wait until the RPG releases it's section on the titular Alien, then redesign your idea around it.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 09, 2019, 02:52:13 PM
Excellent. I say wait until the RPG releases it's section on the titular Alien, then redesign your idea around it.
That's probably smart-this could also apply with my other ideas
Both.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Aug 09, 2019, 04:46:43 PM
Both.
I'm also okay with both so long as there's a catalyst or a serious case for it to occur-Otherwise I'm quite happy with Royal Facehuggers.
Complete Isolation for transformation over an extended period of time I say, Eggmorphing with a host in vicinity and with normal circumstances the Royal caste system is the primary method.
I'm happy for Aliens to not have endless "plan B"s for reproduction.
I've been championing 'egg morphed host to bear Queen hugger' thing for over thirty years as plan B.
And no plan C. They're not gods. If there's no host to morph, or bear the Queen - they die out, too bad.
Mmdeed.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 07, 2016, 07:10:09 PMThe aliens are also severely hamstrung by their reliance on other species for reproduction. While that might be fine for a biological weapon that was engineered to depopulate an ecosystem and then die out, it doesn't do the aliens themselves much good.
That does make sense-It's basically the best way to keep the Aliens from continuing to exist in a place where they shouldn't (following their intention as a bio-weapon). If there's no Queen to be made from the Royal Facehugger, nor are their hosts or resources to eggmorph and produce one AND a Warrior can't moult (and even then this only occurs after MASSIVE exposure to Royal Jelly) then yeah, no point in them living on the planet anymore. They've done their job.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 15, 2019, 07:10:08 AM
Mmdeed.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 07, 2016, 07:10:09 PMThe aliens are also severely hamstrung by their reliance on other species for reproduction. While that might be fine for a biological weapon that was engineered to depopulate an ecosystem and then die out, it doesn't do the aliens themselves much good.
What they do have in the favour is that it's likely the eggs can last a while to start everything up again.
Quote from: SM on Aug 15, 2019, 09:42:49 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 15, 2019, 07:10:08 AM
Mmdeed.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 07, 2016, 07:10:09 PMThe aliens are also severely hamstrung by their reliance on other species for reproduction. While that might be fine for a biological weapon that was engineered to depopulate an ecosystem and then die out, it doesn't do the aliens themselves much good.
What they do have in the favour is that it's likely the eggs can last a while to start everything up again.
True, the original
Alien had a massive clutch of viable eggs in the old Derelict-And if the Pilot Jockey was dead long enough to fossilize, that's a REALLY damn long time.
Genetic restart information hibernation.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 15, 2019, 09:54:10 PM
Genetic restart information hibernation.
The Neomorphs have this too in a sense-except they don't produce the spores.
That we know of.
Considering the organism is created by the Pathogen and then designed to clean a planet, I think not.
That's probably a safe assumption...probably.
Yeah, and the fact we know the nature of their initial creation, according to the RPG. By the Pathogen interacting with microbial ecology.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 16, 2019, 12:52:33 PM
Yeah, and the fact we know the nature of their initial creation, according to the RPG. By the Pathogen interacting with microbial ecology.
Could you imagine if Weyland-Yutani scientists got ahold of the Pathogen and started toying w/ it in a lab? Introducing it to microscopic lifeforms and making a new plague of Neomorphs aboard a ship? I think that'd be terrifying!
Terrifying yes. But such a scenario requires a careful hand, as the point of the series is essentially if humanity aqquires the Alien, it's over.
Quote from: Kenner_Alien_Kaste on Aug 16, 2019, 01:46:53 PM
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 16, 2019, 12:52:33 PM
Yeah, and the fact we know the nature of their initial creation, according to the RPG. By the Pathogen interacting with microbial ecology.
Could you imagine if Weyland-Yutani scientists got ahold of the Pathogen and started toying w/ it in a lab? Introducing it to microscopic lifeforms and making a new plague of Neomorphs aboard a ship? I think that'd be terrifying!
Good RPG session. Are you bad enough dudes to fight your way to the bridge and set a suicidal course for the nearest star?
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 16, 2019, 08:42:27 PM
Terrifying yes. But such a scenario requires a careful hand, as the point of the series is essentially if humanity aqquires the Alien, it's over.
You'd think people would learn by now it's not a great idea to control the Aliens-For every success there's a huge pile of bodies. But that's not stopped people in the past or in real life so....
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 16, 2019, 08:54:53 PM
Good RPG session. Are you bad enough dudes to fight your way to the bridge and set a suicidal course for the nearest star?
Oooo, that does sound good-Keep the infection from spreading.
Indeed it's very realistic as such.
I mean, Predators HAVE tamed Aliens but...it rarely lasts very long.
Tamed or controlled?
Controlled is actually prolly more accurate.
The Queen on Bouvet was controlled for millennia if that's the case. As were her children.
Not a proponent of it even reaching that point.
Quote from: Kenner_Alien_Kaste on Aug 15, 2019, 12:51:02 PM
That does make sense-It's basically the best way to keep the Aliens from continuing to exist in a place where they shouldn't (following their intention as a bio-weapon). If there's no Queen to be made from the Royal Facehugger, nor are their hosts or resources to eggmorph and produce one AND a Warrior can't moult (and even then this only occurs after MASSIVE exposure to Royal Jelly) then yeah, no point in them living on the planet anymore. They've done their job.
Yeah. But i still wonder about is the biological lifespan of the Aliens. In the first movie it seems that they can live only for around 1 or 2 days but in the second one they might be around for months or longer if they aren't killed.
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Maybe the short lifespan was what was intended for it before the hive idea was established in Aliens.
It makes sense if you combine it with the removed eggmorphing scene. Big Chap completed his lifecycle and created the next generation of eggs, his sole purpose of procreation fullfilled. Kinda like a living sex organ.
Quote from: The Kurgan on Aug 17, 2019, 12:07:01 PM
Maybe the short lifespan was what was intended for it before the hive idea was established in Aliens.
It makes sense if you combine it with the removed eggmorphing scene. Big Chap completed his lifecycle and created the next generation of eggs, his sole purpose of procreation fullfilled. Kinda like a living sex organ.
Perhaps eggmorphing is strenuos for the Aliens and the physical stress is what is killing them prematurely.
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That would also be a good explanation.
But since they cut out the egg morphing and we know they last longer than a few days from Aliens, maybe old Big Chap was just tired :D
Quote from: The Kurgan on Aug 17, 2019, 12:07:01 PM
Maybe the short lifespan was what was intended for it before the hive idea was established in Aliens.
It makes sense if you combine it with the removed eggmorphing scene. Big Chap completed his lifecycle and created the next generation of eggs, his sole purpose of procreation fullfilled. Kinda like a living sex organ.
Quote from: Doctor Ash on Aug 17, 2019, 12:14:32 PM
Perhaps eggmorphing is strenuos for the Aliens and the physical stress is what is killing them prematurely.
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That makes sense-I can't imagine the average Warrior or Drone being very healthy after spending a massive amount of time building eggs that it isn't ordinarily supposed to make. Of course, even exhausted and on the edge of death doesn't seem to slow them down too much seeing as it continued chasing after Ripley.
And honestly, for all we know Aliens could simply just need time to recuperate-Having a workforce that can breed in addition to the Queen can lead to that many more eggs, which is both beneficial to the Hive (so long as the eggs are loyal to the Queen herself) and the Warriors themselves, seeing as they can keep their own genetic lineage up. Only question is...how do you think they eggmorph?
By injecting a version of Plagarius Preapotents into the victim via the tail tip.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 17, 2019, 02:21:58 PM
By injecting a version of Plagarius Preapotents into the victim via the tail tip.
That's more or less what I imagined-Basically injecting the unfertilized egg components and then having a method fertilizing them...something which I think I found from Giger's own portfolio. Which is...horrifying and adds a whole new dimension to the Alien.
I love the works of H.R Giger, I own H.R Giger's Alien and the book titled simply H.R Giger, but can't afford the diaries.
And I totally agree but it's like...damn. Not even Necronomicon IV can come close to some of the stuff he made in his final years.
Indeed, particularly the otherworld stuff.