Now I know this is likely to ruffle some feathers but that is not the intention of this post. I simply want to have a discussion around these ideas.
Many people use examples from The Weyland-Yutani Report to argue against AVP being canon but I find you can do quite the opposite. The Weyland-Yutani Report canonizes the 2014 Alien Novel Trilogy with it's reference to the events of Out of the Shadows and River of Pain (mentioning Captain D. Brackett by name).
Out of Shadows introduces an alien species other than the Xenomorphs - the Drukathi. The Drukathi play an important yet mysterious role in The Rage War Trilogy; an AVP story. The first book of the Rage War - Predator: Incursion mentions the events of Sea of Sorrows when Weyland-Yutani has been running a successful Xenomorph research program aboard the USS Evelyn-Tew following the recovery of samples from New Galveston.
River of Pain also makes reference to the comic series Fire and Stone when Anne assumes Cale, Dione, and Russell had slipped away to get to the Onager, an excavation vessel that some colonists of Hadley's Hope used as a makeshift escape vehicle to ferry themselves off planet when the colony was infested in Aliens: Fire and Stone.
So if you consider The Weyland-Yutani Report canon does that also make AVP canon?
There are also no references to the AvP films.
I can't offer anything more.
Maybe because the entire expedition was destroyed (except Lex) by a Predator self-destruct device and buried by ice and then the United States Army used a tactical nuclear strike on Gunnison, Colorado to destroy any evidence of the Xenomorph infestation. Perhaps this successfully kept the events under wraps?
Maybe the films aren't canon (I think they could be) but the new AVP canon is?
There is no reference the Weyland Corporation of AvP and its founder. There would be no need to cover this up.
You just love to revert to the same old arguments don't you? Haha that's okay.
There's no need to reference the spiritual predecessor of the Weyland Corporation (Weyland Industries) especially when it's going to make Peter and his corporation look all the more powerful. It also doesn't relate to Xenomorph XX121 and its historical interactions with mankind. Which is the purpose of Alien: The Weyland-Yutani Report as a technical guide.
But I'm talking about the Weyland-Yutani Report and how it relates to AVP novels and comics, not films, in this thread.
Does it reference DotS?
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 06:03:25 AM
You just love to revert to the same old arguments don't you? Haha that's okay.
There's no need to reference the spiritual predecessor of the Weyland Corporation (Weyland Industries) especially when it's going to make Peter and his corporation look all the more powerful. It also doesn't relate to Xenomorph XX121 and its historical interactions with mankind. Which is the purpose of Alien: The Weyland-Yutani Report as a technical guide.
But I'm talking about the Weyland-Yutani Report and how it relates to AVP novels and comics, not films, in this thread.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/srTYyZ1BjBtGU/giphy.gif)
Why would you even want to put AVP back into the canon?
For a lot of fans, there shouldn't even be an A without a P. :(
That they're inextricable. Like peas and carrots. Peanut butter and jelly. Pork and beans. Shepard and Vakarian.
Shepard and Vakarian's a five star restaurant quality meal, AVP's afterbirth.
@OP
No, the presence of the "Drukathi" (f**king d u m b) in OotS/RoP/SoS doesn't not therefore make AVP Canon anymore than Dwayne Hick's presence in Aliens makes ACM Canon, or any other myriad examples.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 21, 2019, 07:04:04 AM
Shepard and Vakarian's a five star restaurant quality meal, AVP's afterbirth.
That's harsh.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 21, 2019, 07:04:04 AM
Shepard and Vakarian's a five star restaurant quality meal, AVP's afterbirth.
@OP
No, the presence of the "Drukathi" (f**king d u m b) in OotS/RoP/SoS doesn't not therefore make AVP Canon anymore than Dwayne Hick's presence in Aliens makes ACM Canon, or any other myriad examples.
You have not given a rebuttal for the links I have provided between The Weyland-Yutani report (which you often site), the 2014 Alien Trilogy/The Rage War Trilogy and Fire and stone.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2019, 06:55:08 AM
For a lot of fans, there shouldn't even be an A without a P. :(
I definitely can and often do enjoy Alien and Predator separately but I also thoroughly enjoy AVP.
Incorrect. Conversation declined.
SM's correct, seeya.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 21, 2019, 07:47:22 AM
Incorrect. Conversation declined.
SM's correct, seeya.
Allllrighty then.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/1d97e8b2153a4a1c5425354df66b8033/tumblr_mjdv7kUeW31s39anxo1_250.gif)
Quote from: Oasis Nadrama on Feb 21, 2019, 06:50:44 AM
Why would you even want to put AVP back into the canon?
Because it's cool and good?
Was that a trick question? ???
Quote from: SM on Feb 21, 2019, 05:37:08 AM
There are also no references to the AvP films.
I can't offer anything more.
I'm not sure it can get any clearer than this?
I think OP is only referring to the recent AvP EU, not the films.
Oh, for sure, the Fire and Stone / Life and Death run are alluded to in the WYR. But it's not like one AvP = AvP.
But if even one AvP story is canon, doesn't that get the predators' proverbial foot in the door?
I should imagine so.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2019, 09:39:23 AM
I think OP is only referring to the recent AvP EU, not the films.
Yes I was indeed. Thank you.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2019, 09:46:03 AM
But if even one AvP story is canon, doesn't that get the predators' proverbial foot in the door?
This.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 21, 2019, 09:42:32 AM
Oh, for sure, the Fire and Stone / Life and Death run are alluded to in the WYR. But it's not like one AvP = AvP.
So you see Fire and Stone/Life and Death & the 2014 Alien Trilogy (and therefore The Rage War Trilogy) as canon or no? What do you mean by one AVP ≠ AVP.
Just because one story gets a mention doesn't mean the rest of everything else is fair game.
I was under the impression that all Alien (and vs. Predator) EU after Fire & Stone (comics) and Alien: Out of the Shadows (novels) was what was being considered as canon. Except Bug Hunt because that explicitly says only some are considered canon but unhelpfully doesn't specify. And SiL was correct as to what I meant.
Wait!
Fox has something to add to this:
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/fulprGaN6Tp2o/giphy.gif)
Okay, back to the conversation! ;D
Ah okay thanks for explaining. It's good to hear that you consider post Fire and Stone & Out of the Shadows AVP canon. I might make a list soon of which stories from the Bug Hunt anthology could fit fluently into the canon.
No where did I suggest that this means the AVP films are also canon. Though I do consider them so myself.
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 11:35:15 AM
Ah okay thanks for explaining. It's good to hear that you consider post Fire and Stone & Out of the Shadows AVP canon. I might make a list soon of which stories from the Bug Hunt anthology could fit fluently into the canon.
No where did I suggest that this means the AVP films are also canon. Though I do consider them so myself.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/tsgNNs93oIbwk/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c6ea49c56364e6149e0266e)
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 11:35:15 AM
No where did I suggest that this means the AVP films are also canon. Though I do consider them so myself.
It felt like it at first from the Weyland example.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 21, 2019, 01:33:03 PM
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 11:35:15 AM
No where did I suggest that this means the AVP films are also canon. Though I do consider them so myself.
It felt like it at first from the Weyland example.
My original post had no mention of Weyland. It was not until SM mentioned it that I gave a rebuttal.
I meant when you argued the point about the omission, but, fair point!
So confirmed Xenomorphs and Yautja exist in the same universe.
Indeed.
It would be safe to assume then that The Predator is a part of this new canon (post Fire and Stone and Out of the Shadows) and the film canonizes AVP (2004), right?
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 06:07:23 PM
It would be safe to assume then that The Predator is a part of this new canon (post Fire and Stone and Out of the Shadows) and the film canonizes AVP (2004), right?
Well I like my canon film-only / non-EU but I'll play along. :)
You're basing it on the spear? Did anyone photo compare them, basically to identify if the spears are indeed a match and it's the same spear from AvP (2004)? Because to me they look different, hence not a match, hence AvP (2004) has not been re-canonized.
This would mean AvP battles happened in this new canon, but not the exact events from AVP (2004).
(https://i.redd.it/5o59lnhahv021.jpg)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/4519532701726aa9c373614879fc674a/tumblr_inline_o5nnuk0tfW1roe2gd_540.png)
Unless you're going off of something else?
"Canonizes". Good to see that canon threads are still ongoing.
Quote from: SM on Feb 21, 2019, 05:37:08 AM
There are also no references to the AvP films.
He was talking about the AVP EU.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2019, 06:55:08 AM
For a lot of fans, there shouldn't even be an A without a P. :(
Many fans only got into the series due to the AVP concept, normally I see non-fans automatically associating one to another, despite the divorce many still see it as one. And this concept has always been a big part on here, AVPGalaxy started as a AVP2 site after all.
Would Ridley totally redeem himself if he brought predators into the fold in a third prequel?
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 06:07:23 PM
It would be safe to assume then that The Predator is a part of this new canon (post Fire and Stone and Out of the Shadows) and the film canonizes AVP (2004), right?
Nope. It only references the Fire and Stone story and by extension the Life and Death. But feel free to head canon as you like.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Feb 21, 2019, 06:32:29 PM
"Canonizes". Good to see that canon threads are still ongoing.
;D
QuoteMany fans only got into the series due to the AVP concept, normally I see non-fans automatically associating one to another, despite the divorce many still see it as one. And this concept has always been a big part on here, AVPGalaxy started as a AVP2 site after all.
Pick your favorite poison, Alien or Predator, I believe AvP has been very good for both franchises. I know someone myself who never was fond of either Alien or Predator, but the matchup between both enticed him. And the more fans brought into the fold, the better I say.
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 06:00:16 PM
So confirmed Xenomorphs and Yautja exist in the same universe.
That's been true since 'Predator 2'.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2019, 06:51:16 PM
Would Ridley totally redeem himself if he brought predators into the fold in a third prequel?
Is that bait? f**k it. I will take it.
That's... too unbelievable to even consider. As long as Ridley didn't try to mess with the Predator lore or put them there just to be stepped on by David I wouldn't mind. An AVP movie done by Ridley... I can't imagine how it would even be like. His mind is too random to be fully predicted. But I guess some good avp action might be more fun to watch than whatever Ridley is currently planning. Still it wouldn't be enough redeem him, he needs to undo his last decisions.
As much as I want the space jockey to be great again, I would prefer if Ridley just forgot the David made the alien thing on the next one.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 21, 2019, 06:56:18 PM
Pick your favorite poison, Alien or Predator, I believe AvP has been very good for both franchises. I know someone myself who never was fond of either Alien or Predator, but the matchup between both enticed him. And the more fans brought into the fold, the better I say.
My story is a little similar. :D
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 21, 2019, 06:57:08 PM
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 06:00:16 PM
So confirmed Xenomorphs and Yautja exist in the same universe.
That's been true since 'Predator 2'.
Doesn't P2 just mean that aliens inhabit the predator universe, but not necessarily vice-versa?
Quote from: Samhain13 on Feb 21, 2019, 07:01:41 PMAs much as I want the space jockey to be great again, I would prefer if Ridley just forgot the David made the alien thing on the next one.
It wouldn't surprise me if he's
already forgotten it. And if anyone tried to remind him of it in order to maintain continuity going forward, I also wouldn't be surprised if he told them to f**k off.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2019, 07:02:46 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if he's already forgotten it. And if anyone tried to remind him of it in order to maintain continuity going forward, I also wouldn't be surprised if he told them to f**k off.
Sounds about right :D
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2019, 07:02:46 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 21, 2019, 06:57:08 PM
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 06:00:16 PM
So confirmed Xenomorphs and Yautja exist in the same universe.
That's been true since 'Predator 2'.
Doesn't P2 just mean that aliens inhabit the predator universe, but not necessarily vice-versa?
On it's own I think that's fair.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Feb 21, 2019, 07:01:41 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 21, 2019, 06:56:18 PM
Pick your favorite poison, Alien or Predator, I believe AvP has been very good for both franchises. I know someone myself who never was fond of either Alien or Predator, but the matchup between both enticed him. And the more fans brought into the fold, the better I say.
My story is a little similar. :D
Well there we go. More common than some may think! :)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2019, 07:02:46 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 21, 2019, 06:57:08 PM
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 06:00:16 PM
So confirmed Xenomorphs and Yautja exist in the same universe.
That's been true since 'Predator 2'.
Doesn't P2 just mean that aliens inhabit the predator universe, but not necessarily vice-versa?
Basically what all the nods in the Predator movies do.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 21, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
(https://i.redd.it/5o59lnhahv021.jpg)
https://66.media.tumblr.com/4519532701726aa9c373614879fc674a/tumblr_inline_o5nnuk0tfW1roe2gd_540.png
I can't believe I'm going to defend AVP.
Look, you're correct in that they're not identical but they're clearly intended narratively to be the same spear, so saying because there's minor aesthetic differences means that they're different spears seems like grasps at straws.
It seems rather explicit that AVP 2004, AVPR, The Predator and AVP 2010 are Canon to eachother.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 21, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 06:07:23 PM
It would be safe to assume then that The Predator is a part of this new canon (post Fire and Stone and Out of the Shadows) and the film canonizes AVP (2004), right?
Well I like my canon film-only / non-EU but I'll play along. :)
You're basing it on the spear? Did anyone photo compare them, basically to identify if the spears are indeed a match and it's the same spear from AvP (2004)? Because to me they look different, hence not a match, hence AvP (2004) has not been re-canonized.
This would mean AvP battles happened in this new canon, but not the exact events from AVP (2004).
(https://i.redd.it/5o59lnhahv021.jpg)
https://66.media.tumblr.com/4519532701726aa9c373614879fc674a/tumblr_inline_o5nnuk0tfW1roe2gd_540.png
Unless you're going off of something else?
That is what I was referring to thanks for the comparison. To me they look pretty much the same and its an obvious reference to the film's events.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 21, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 06:07:23 PM
It would be safe to assume then that The Predator is a part of this new canon (post Fire and Stone and Out of the Shadows) and the film canonizes AVP (2004), right?
Nope. It only references the Fire and Stone story and by extension the Life and Death. But feel free to head canon as you like.
But you said everything post Life and Death & Out of the Shadows is part of the new A/P/AVP canon so surely the latest Predator film, which also references the first AVP film, would be part of this canon? How would you prove that they are seperate? The Weyland-Yutani Report doesn't mention anything pre-Prometheus and The Predator was made way after the book was released so thats kind of a weak argument as to why The Predator isn't part of the new canon.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 21, 2019, 07:02:46 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 21, 2019, 06:57:08 PM
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 06:00:16 PM
So confirmed Xenomorphs and Yautja exist in the same universe.
That's been true since 'Predator 2'.
Doesn't P2 just mean that aliens inhabit the predator universe, but not necessarily vice-versa?
I take it to mean they all inhabit the same universe. Heck, we already know Predators inhabit the "Alien universe" by way of the Rage War trilogy, Fire & Stone, and Life & Death.
Crossovers. As is any other.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 03:32:42 AM
Crossovers. As is any other.
Ehh when they cross-reference each other as heavily as they do, I think it's pretty clear they're meant to be the same "universe", but to each their own.
Bad crossovers, no Batman Versus Predator either IMO.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 03:41:59 AM
Bad crossovers, no Batman Versus Predator either IMO.
I view the inter-company stuff as an entirely separate beast from AvP, but again, to each their own.
QuoteThe Weyland-Yutani Report doesn't mention anything pre-Prometheus
It talks about Weyland's work with robots, terraforming, hypersleep, FTL travel, etc.
Okay but you know what I mean it doesn't mention anything pre-Prometheus era. Pre 2012 if you want to get technical.
Weyland Corp was founded in 2012 - why would it go back further?
Quote from: SM on Feb 22, 2019, 04:14:59 AM
Weyland Corp was founded in 2012 - why would it go back further?
Thats the very point I'm trying to make. Why would it go back further?
I give up. Why?
What? No, it's a rhetorical question. I'm saying it shouldn't and doesn't need to go further back because it only needs to mention the creation of the Weyland Corp (not its spiritual predecessor) and then move on to the known historical encounters with the Xenomorph, which is the point of the in-universe technical guide.
You're arguing that because it doesn't mention Charles or Weyland Industries, this is evidence to support AVP isn't canon but you're also agreeing with me that it doesn't need to go further back, so I'm confused as to your point.
It doesn't go back further because there was no earlier spiritual predecessor.
& The logic falls flat on it's face when you realise, if AVP 2004 was Canon and that was therefore the first encounter with the Alien. It would rate a mention.
Indeed.
Even if it was just a passing mention of that famous Weyland fella who died in mysterious circumstances when a nuclear weapon was detonated on a subantarctic island.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 04:52:25 AM
& The logic falls flat on it's face when you realise, if AVP 2004 was Canon and that was therefore the first encounter with the Alien. It would rate a mention.
That's because it wasn't Weyland.
It was clearly Lance Hendrickson, hired by Weyland to play Weyland.
He spared no expense.
The reality is, AVP 2004, AVPR, AVP 2010 and The Predator were all conceived as being part of the same continuity. Prometheus and subsequently the new Alien Canon, is not.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 05:07:36 AM
The reality is, AVP 2004, AVPR, AVP 2010 and The Predator were all conceived as being part of the same continuity. Prometheus and subsequently the new Alien Canon, is not.
Thank goodness.
There's two AVP universes, the Charles bishop weyland universe and the peter weyland universe. AVP 2004, 2007, and the Predator definitely belong in the former, while Fire and stone belongs in the latter.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 05:07:36 AM
The reality is, AVP 2004, AVPR, AVP 2010 and The Predator were all conceived as being part of the same continuity. Prometheus and subsequently the new Alien Canon, is not.
Doesn't The Predator also reference the first two Predator films? And Predators references the first one.
Quote from: SM on Feb 22, 2019, 05:33:23 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 05:07:36 AM
The reality is, AVP 2004, AVPR, AVP 2010 and The Predator were all conceived as being part of the same continuity. Prometheus and subsequently the new Alien Canon, is not.
Doesn't The Predator also reference the first two Predator films? And Predators references the first one.
I think that means that Predator, Predator 2, and Predators could be in both the Charles bishop weyland universe and the Peter Weyland universe, while the Predator could only be in the Charles bishop universe.
Correct.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 04:52:25 AM
& The logic falls flat on it's face when you realise, if AVP 2004 was Canon and that was therefore the first encounter with the Alien. It would rate a mention.
My answer:
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 05:52:26 AM
Maybe because the entire expedition was destroyed (except Lex) by a Predator self-destruct device and buried by ice and then the United States Army used a tactical nuclear strike on Gunnison, Colorado to destroy any evidence of the Xenomorph infestation. Perhaps this successfully kept the events under wraps?
Quote from: SM on Feb 22, 2019, 04:55:18 AM
Indeed.
Even if it was just a passing mention of that famous Weyland fella who died in mysterious circumstances when a nuclear weapon was detonated on a subantarctic island.
Why would a report/technical guide to the species known as Xenomorph XX121 and its historical interactions with mankind mention this?
Quote from: yhe1 on Feb 22, 2019, 05:39:01 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 22, 2019, 05:33:23 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 05:07:36 AM
The reality is, AVP 2004, AVPR, AVP 2010 and The Predator were all conceived as being part of the same continuity. Prometheus and subsequently the new Alien Canon, is not.
Doesn't The Predator also reference the first two Predator films? And Predators references the first one.
I think that means that Predator, Predator 2, and Predators could be in both the Charles bishop weyland universe and the Peter Weyland universe, while the Predator could only be in the Charles bishop universe.
So you guys are telling me there are two AVP 'canons'?
One that contains: Predator, Predator 2, AVP (2004), AVPR, Predators, The Predator, AVP (2010) and I assume the Alien films minus the prequel films + the comics pre Fire and Stone.
The other contains: Predator, Predator 2, Predators, Prometheus, Alien Covenant, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection and novels/comics post Out of the Shadows/Fire and Stone.
Would this be correct?
Pretty much. The Predator didn't care that Peter weyland reversed global warming.
Seems like a bit of a hassle when you could easily make them work in one timeline.
No hassle when you just ignore the old EU.
And (both Canon's) AVP stuff, Alien DH Trilogy
Then you have a consistent Canon, with no garbage. Aside from AR, IMO.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 08:23:55 AM
No hassle when you just ignore the old EU.
And (both Canon's) AVP stuff, Alien DH Trilogy
Then you have a consistent Canon, with no garbage. Aside from AR, IMO.
Too bad you can't do that when considering official canon. But I respect your 'head-canon'. Even if my own does not align with it.
Actually you can, because Covenant makes it pretty explicit by what the Pathogen does that Fire and Stone/L&D wouldn't have happened, and if David indeed did make the Alien, then the Alien Novel Trilogy couldn't have happened either. Good stuff, almost makes me want to see David be reinforced as the definitive creator of the Alien for that alone.
That's a nuclear option.
It is, only in case of emergency of wiping out, really, really bad, contrived EU entries.
I must agree that what Fire and Stone does with the Black Pathogen is not so good. I personally don't include these comics in my 'canon'.
David has yet to be reinforced as the creator and I still hope that we never get this confirmation.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 08:39:05 AM
Actually you can, because Covenant makes it pretty explicit by what the Pathogen does that Fire and Stone/L&D wouldn't have happened
Ehhhh I'm not so sure on that, and I have a feeling this got brought up in another thread as well.
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 22, 2019, 03:03:35 AM
But you said everything post Life and Death & Out of the Shadows is part of the new A/P/AVP canon so surely the latest Predator film, which also references the first AVP film, would be part of this canon? How would you prove that they are seperate? The Weyland-Yutani Report doesn't mention anything pre-Prometheus and The Predator was made way after the book was released so thats kind of a weak argument as to why The Predator isn't part of the new canon.
I'm talking in terms of the Alien lore, not Predator. Everything post Fire and Stone/Out of Shadows with Aliens in them is canon to Alien.
The Predator may feature some small easter eggs to the AvP films but that doesn't connect them to the current Alien canon because the AvP films are not a part of that canon.
I hate canon discussions.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 22, 2019, 08:54:42 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 08:39:05 AM
Actually you can, because Covenant makes it pretty explicit by what the Pathogen does that Fire and Stone/L&D wouldn't have happened
I'm not so sure on that, and I have a feeling this got brought up in another thread as well.
Yeah but, not to be an asshole -but you'll argue that nearly everything can be Canon. And that's not a basis I want to challenge, when you've held to that idea since about 2007. It'll go exactly no-where constructive.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 22, 2019, 08:55:37 AM
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 22, 2019, 03:03:35 AM
But you said everything post Life and Death & Out of the Shadows is part of the new A/P/AVP canon so surely the latest Predator film, which also references the first AVP film, would be part of this canon? How would you prove that they are seperate? The Weyland-Yutani Report doesn't mention anything pre-Prometheus and The Predator was made way after the book was released so thats kind of a weak argument as to why The Predator isn't part of the new canon.
I'm talking in terms of the Alien lore, not Predator. Everything post Fire and Stone/Out of Shadows with Aliens in them is canon to Alien.
Are you saying Prometheus: Life and Death & Aliens: Life and Death are canon to Alien but Predator: Life and Death & Alien vs. Predator: Life and Death are not? Because that doesn't make much sense either, it all forms together to make one story.
Also Alien: Sea of Sorrows leads into Predator: Incursion so I don't get it.
Okay to avoid any possible confusion, here is the list of things that are canon to Alien as far I know. In no particular order
Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien Resurrection
Prometheus
Alien Covenant
Alien Isolation
Alien Blackout
Alien Out of the Shadows
Alien Sea of Sorrows
Alien River of Pain
The Rage Wars (All 3 entries)
Alien The Cold Forge
Fire and Stone (all titles within)
Life and Death (all titles within)
Aliens Defiance
Aliens Dust to Dust
Aliens Dead Orbit
Aliens Resistance
Some of Bug Hunt but I don't know which so really it's pointless to include for discussion purposes but whatever.
And I've heard back from Fox. I asked them about putting together a list of what is considered canon because I'm sick of these arguments. That's apparently going on the Alien Universe website in the next month or so.
Next month? Hallelujah!
I wonder if the whole David creating the Alien thing and it's ramifications upon;
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 22, 2019, 09:26:30 AM
Alien Out of the Shadows
Alien Sea of Sorrows
Alien River of Pain
The Rage Wars (All 3 entries)
Fire and Stone (all titles within)
Life and Death (all titles within)
Will be addressed.
(Aka, the terrible stuff.)
I'm curious about how they're going to handle that myself. I was asked about my opinions on all that but it just ultimately came down to "depends on what Scott is going to do with the next film."
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 22, 2019, 09:26:31 AM
Okay to avoid any possible confusion, here is the list of things that are canon to Alien as far I know. In no particular order
Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien Resurrection
Prometheus
Alien Covenant
Alien Isolation
Alien Blackout
Alien Out of the Shadows
Alien Sea of Sorrows
Alien River of Pain
The Rage Wars (All 3 entries)
Alien The Cold Forge
Fire and Stone (all titles within)
Life and Death (all titles within)
Aliens Defiance
Aliens Dust to Dust
Aliens Dead Orbit
Aliens Resistance
Some of Bug Hunt but I don't know which so really it's pointless to include for discussion purposes but whatever.
And I've heard back from Fox. I asked them about putting together a list of what is considered canon because I'm sick of these arguments. That's apparently going on the Alien Universe website in the next month or so.
Cheers, I truly do appreciate your responses. And sorry that these discussions annoy you. I enjoy them but I understand that they can become annoying when people (including myself) get too passionate.
At the risk of annoying you further; why wouldn't the latest Predator movie be part of the canon list when there are Predators in this universe?
It will be interesting to see how Fox develops the Alien Universe website.
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 22, 2019, 09:39:04 AM
Cheers, I truly do appreciate your responses. And sorry that these discussions annoy you. I enjoy them but I understand that they can become annoying when people (including myself) get too passionate.
My problem with the discussions is that people don't often seem to care about what actually is canon. It's more "this is my idea of canon, I want confirmation that mine is the right one and if not, oh well, that's how it's always going to be for me." I find that attitude frustrating.
QuoteAt the risk of annoying you further; why wouldn't the latest Predator movie be part of the canon list when there are Predators in this universe?
Just because the Predators exist in the Alien universe as seen in Fire and Stone/ Life and Death, it doesn't equate to all the Predator films being considered canon. As far as I know, it's only the Alien films they consider canon.
I don't think its that people don't care but they don't know because there hasn't really been any official statements from Fox.
Hm, you would think that the new Predator film would be part of the new canon, especially considering that they were going to involve Ripley/Newt into that ending.
I would never expect them to be a part of the Alien canon. I also believe those endings were never intended to be taken seriously. I think that was pure studio politics. Give them 2 even more stupid ideas so they go with the one less stupid idea.
Technically AVP canon at the moment, right?
Interesting theory about the studio politics. I had not thought of that.
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 22, 2019, 10:10:46 AM
Technically AVP canon at the moment, right?
What do you mean?
Wouldn't you call it the current AVP canon as it involves both Alien and Predator in it's stories?
ALIEN Universe. 8)
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 22, 2019, 10:13:50 AM
Wouldn't you call it the current AVP canon as it involves both Alien and Predator in it's stories?
That the Predator is a part of AvP canon? Honestly, I don't know. I'd assume so. But I don't really know much about the state of the Predator side of things.
I'm not even sure there is a Predator side of things, just throwing shit at a wall and seeing if it sticks.
Quote
Why would a report/technical guide to the species known as Xenomorph XX121 and its historical interactions with mankind mention this?
Same reason it details the background and history of Peter Weyland.
Quote from: SM on Feb 22, 2019, 10:23:15 AM
Quote
Why would a report/technical guide to the species known as Xenomorph XX121 and its historical interactions with mankind mention this?
Same reason it details the background and history of Peter Weyland.
You want to take the discussion in that direction? Okay, I'll bite.
The Weyland-Yutani Report states that the company was founded when Weyland Corp absorbed the Yutani Corporation. However this is inaccurate — it was in fact Yutani's founder, Hideo Yutani, that oversaw a hostile takeover of Weyland Corp. Since the Weyland-Yutani Report is written from an in-universe perspective by Weyland-Yutani, it could be theorized that the report is based on inaccurate information or has been deliberately written to present a false narrative for reasons unknown. This same theory can be applied to the reason why any information about Charles or Weyland Industries are left out.
But that's nonsense, because then the Report would serve no purpose as any employee could just look up the facts for themselves elsewhere.
As Charles Bishop Weyland's existence and Peter Weyland's existence would be a matter of public record, as would the merger for that matter.
That is merely a case of something coming later with erases the information before. A retcon.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/b7/cf/35b7cf14d5cfa1dc450600b05d0c875a.jpg)
Unfortunately, in that case.
Yeah, should've looked like Gash's rendition.
Maybe somewhere down the line they still will.
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 22, 2019, 10:49:46 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 22, 2019, 10:23:15 AM
Quote
Why would a report/technical guide to the species known as Xenomorph XX121 and its historical interactions with mankind mention this?
Same reason it details the background and history of Peter Weyland.
You want to take the discussion in that direction? Okay, I'll bite.
The Weyland-Yutani Report states that the company was founded when Weyland Corp absorbed the Yutani Corporation. However this is inaccurate — it was in fact Yutani's founder, Hideo Yutani, that oversaw a hostile takeover of Weyland Corp. Since the Weyland-Yutani Report is written from an in-universe perspective by Weyland-Yutani, it could be theorized that the report is based on inaccurate information or has been deliberately written to present a false narrative for reasons unknown. This same theory can be applied to the reason why any information about Charles or Weyland Industries are left out.
You know perfectly well however, that isn't the case and you're arguing simply for the sake of arguing.
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 08:59:14 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 22, 2019, 08:54:42 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 22, 2019, 08:39:05 AM
Actually you can, because Covenant makes it pretty explicit by what the Pathogen does that Fire and Stone/L&D wouldn't have happened
Ehhhh I'm not so sure on that, and I have a feeling this got brought up in another thread as well.
Yeah but, not to be an asshole -but you'll argue that nearly everything can be Canon. And that's not a basis I want to challenge, when you've held to that idea since about 2007. It'll go exactly no-where constructive.
I was more of referring to Covenant being "pretty explicit" in what the Pathogen does, and how that affects the comics you don't like.
Also I'm not sure what you mean "since about 2007". ???
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 22, 2019, 09:48:44 AM
My problem with [canon] discussions is that people don't often seem to care about what actually is canon. It's more "this is my idea of canon, I want confirmation that mine is the right one and if not, oh well, that's how it's always going to be for me." I find that attitude frustrating.
It's almost as if canon is not a useful concept at the end-user level. :P
Seriously though, I touched on this when I got interviewed for the "inside the members studio" thread recently - the very notion of "canon" can be viewed as defining what is "real" within something that is inherently not real. To copy-paste what I said:
"I think canon arguments (for any fandom, not just AvP) spiral out of control partly because people want to be "right", and by doing so it makes them feel a stronger connection to what they're a fan of. "Canon" also makes things seem more "real", as if there's a knowable structure to the fiction, with "facts". Facts inherently imply truth or reality, even for something that isn't real. If everyone agrees on what is "canon", it makes it easier to agree on what the "facts" are, and things seem more real. When someone disagrees on what's canon, it starts to break the illusion and people get really defensive as a reaction."Ultimately, people
shouldn't care about what is "actually canon", because at the end of the day it doesn't matter.
It's plenty useful at the end-user level for understanding what is or isn't meant to be going on, especially when there's contradictory or vague information. It's useful for putting people on the same page so people aren't dragging up irrelevant information in conversation.
Hicks is frustrated by people asking what "is" canon according to the license holders, then ignoring the answer because it doesn't suit what they want to believe. If one is going to argue about what the official canon is when they're given a pretty straight answer, just don't ask what is or isn't canon. Either be prepared for the fact there is an answer, or don't act like you actually care.
("You" is used in the third-person non-specific sense here).
It feels like the example you gave in your interview answer is meant to say that the people who insist what is or isn't canon are desperately holding to something -- but it really applies to the people who ask what canon is, then get upset when it's not the answer they wanted.
Same as it ever was.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2019, 12:16:27 PM
It's plenty useful at the end-user level for understanding what is or isn't meant to be going on, especially when there's contradictory or vague information. It's useful for putting people on the same page so people aren't dragging up irrelevant information in conversation.
Sure, but that's still on a case-by-case basis, in the same way this forum is structured for "Alien movies", or "literature", etc. None of that hinges on what is "actually canon", because that's a nonsense-concept that doesn't matter. What matters for discussion is "what is canon for the purposes of this particular discussion".
If what was "actually canon" mattered and we expected people to follow it for the purposes of all discussions, we wouldn't segregate EU materials into their own subforum - they'd be fair game to bring up in movie-related discussions in a greater capacity than just a trivia footnote like they are right now.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2019, 12:16:27 PM
It feels like the example you gave in your interview answer is meant to say that the people who insist what is or isn't canon are desperately holding to something -- but it really applies to the people who ask what canon is, then get upset when it's not the answer they wanted.
I'm not sure there's a difference. People want confirmation that what they like is "real" - the most satisfying way to get that confirmation is from the "official" owners, but another way is simply learning that other people agree with what you think is "real". My interview answer was my opinion of why people (subconsciously) care.
I'll admit to being a (mild) hypocrite when it comes to Star Wars, as an example. I used to slavishly follow the EU and gobble up every detail I could find, and then Disney hit the reset button. i was pretty annoyed at first that all the stories I liked were no longer "true", and it took me a while to recognize that it didn't matter. I still have the comics and novels and games from the old EU that I like, and they're always going to be part of the "real" Star Wars for me, and by and large I haven't gotten myself to care about the "new" EU except for some minor things. That said, I still get a momentary thrill when old EU stuff gets "re-canonized", even though I know ultimately it doesn't matter. It's a subconscious validation that things I like are "real" again.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2019, 12:16:27 PM
Hicks is frustrated by people asking what "is" canon according to the license holders, then ignoring the answer because it doesn't suit what they want to believe.
Flute playing robot invents aliens is canon. *sighs* I hate the idea, I don't want to believe it .... but its what they said is the case...
I hope they retcon that one *lol*
Quote from: Russ on Feb 22, 2019, 01:26:39 PM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2019, 12:16:27 PM
Hicks is frustrated by people asking what "is" canon according to the license holders, then ignoring the answer because it doesn't suit what they want to believe.
Flute playing robot invents aliens is canon. *sighs* I hate the idea, I don't want to believe it .... but its what they said is the case...
I hope they retcon that one *lol*
the Pied Piper of paradise.
Quote from: Russ on Feb 22, 2019, 01:26:39 PM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2019, 12:16:27 PM
Hicks is frustrated by people asking what "is" canon according to the license holders, then ignoring the answer because it doesn't suit what they want to believe.
Flute playing robot invents aliens is canon. *sighs* I hate the idea, I don't want to believe it .... but its what they said is the case...
I hope they retcon that one *lol*
*Flute playing sexually frustated friendzoned robot with daddy issues invents aliens as a way to compensate for not having a willy is canon.
So deep.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/c3e418a8fbdb06eeecfdecf94f63d026/tenor.gif)
Quote from: Samhain13 on Feb 22, 2019, 05:52:36 PM
Quote from: Russ on Feb 22, 2019, 01:26:39 PM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2019, 12:16:27 PM
Hicks is frustrated by people asking what "is" canon according to the license holders, then ignoring the answer because it doesn't suit what they want to believe.
Flute playing robot invents aliens is canon. *sighs* I hate the idea, I don't want to believe it .... but its what they said is the case...
I hope they retcon that one *lol*
*Flute playing sexually frustated friendzoned robot with daddy issues invents aliens as a way to compensate for not having a willy is canon.
**Flute playing sexually frustated friendzoned robot with daddy issues invents aliens as a way to compensate for not having a willy is one possible interpretation of the canon.
Well the Covenant novelization did fix that.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 22, 2019, 07:14:52 PM
**Flute playing sexually frustated friendzoned robot with daddy issues invents aliens as a way to compensate for not having a willy is one possible interpretation of the canon.
#notmycanon
ADF went rogue.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 22, 2019, 07:25:32 PM
ADF went rogue.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6FmJSCBd7N8/WtU3VideFGI/AAAAAAAAAM4/ymGQXkth5bcghotOdpgjxO7gpDJJ543rwCLcBGAs/s1600/-191%2Bcopy.jpg)
Well at least we still have ACM in canon.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 22, 2019, 07:51:04 PM
Well at least we still have ACM in canon.
(https://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1179/11799911/2904815-pitchford.jpg)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 22, 2019, 07:14:52 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Feb 22, 2019, 05:52:36 PM
Quote from: Russ on Feb 22, 2019, 01:26:39 PM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2019, 12:16:27 PM
Hicks is frustrated by people asking what "is" canon according to the license holders, then ignoring the answer because it doesn't suit what they want to believe.
Flute playing robot invents aliens is canon. *sighs* I hate the idea, I don't want to believe it .... but its what they said is the case...
I hope they retcon that one *lol*
*Flute playing sexually frustated friendzoned robot with daddy issues invents aliens as a way to compensate for not having a willy is canon.
**Flute playing sexually frustated friendzoned robot with daddy issues invents aliens as a way to compensate for not having a willy is one possible interpretation of the canon.
(https://i.imgur.com/1rm6wd8.jpg)
The sun will shine on us again one day.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 22, 2019, 07:25:32 PM
ADF went rogue.
Perhaps, but FOX allowed and published it.
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/intermediary/f/ab8b16a6-28c4-4536-9837-440e8e93e86e/d303r0e-225f4e37-bcb3-413d-97bb-6ff9014168b4.jpg/v1/fill/w_873,h_916,q_70,strp/space_jockey_sketch_by_harnois75_d303r0e-pre.jpg)
Or GTFO
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 22, 2019, 03:03:35 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 21, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 06:07:23 PM
It would be safe to assume then that The Predator is a part of this new canon (post Fire and Stone and Out of the Shadows) and the film canonizes AVP (2004), right?
Well I like my canon film-only / non-EU but I'll play along. :)
You're basing it on the spear? Did anyone photo compare them, basically to identify if the spears are indeed a match and it's the same spear from AvP (2004)? Because to me they look different, hence not a match, hence AvP (2004) has not been re-canonized.
This would mean AvP battles happened in this new canon, but not the exact events from AVP (2004).
(https://i.redd.it/5o59lnhahv021.jpg)
https://66.media.tumblr.com/4519532701726aa9c373614879fc674a/tumblr_inline_o5nnuk0tfW1roe2gd_540.png
Unless you're going off of something else?
That is what I was referring to thanks for the comparison. To me they look pretty much the same and its an obvious reference to the film's events.
Maybe. I don't want to be one of those people who are so demanding for precision they'll argue ridges or something.
One has four ridges, the other has five. No match! :) But the shape is different. The end of the shaft is different. The wrap color is different.
I guess what I'm saying is, if Shane Black told that prop maker "I want to see Lex's spear in the glass", that prop maker clearly didn't follow instructions. ;)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 22, 2019, 09:46:02 PM
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 22, 2019, 03:03:35 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 21, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
Quote from: Frosty Venom on Feb 21, 2019, 06:07:23 PM
It would be safe to assume then that The Predator is a part of this new canon (post Fire and Stone and Out of the Shadows) and the film canonizes AVP (2004), right?
Well I like my canon film-only / non-EU but I'll play along. :)
You're basing it on the spear? Did anyone photo compare them, basically to identify if the spears are indeed a match and it's the same spear from AvP (2004)? Because to me they look different, hence not a match, hence AvP (2004) has not been re-canonized.
This would mean AvP battles happened in this new canon, but not the exact events from AVP (2004).
(https://i.redd.it/5o59lnhahv021.jpg)
https://66.media.tumblr.com/4519532701726aa9c373614879fc674a/tumblr_inline_o5nnuk0tfW1roe2gd_540.png
Unless you're going off of something else?
That is what I was referring to thanks for the comparison. To me they look pretty much the same and its an obvious reference to the film's events.
Maybe. I don't want to be one of those people who are so demanding for precision they'll argue ridges or something. One has four ridges, the other has five. No match! :) But the shape is different. The end of the shaft is different. The wrap color is different.
I guess what I'm saying is, if Shane Black told that prop maker "I want to see Lex's spear in the glass", that prop maker clearly didn't follow instructions. ;)
Staying true to things that have come before was not a strong point of that movie
Ah, very true. Good point.
The canon debate is weird to me because it's trying to make a unified timeline when that just doesn't work these days. Unfortunately Prometheus and Covenant screwed things up so it just doesn't work.
I look at it like this;
Alien (includes Quadrilogy and the Prequels)
Predator (includes Predator films and AVP)
On the Predator front you can also choose among yourselves if Darkhorse's reboot affects things or if the old EU suits you.
Trying to make a unified timeline wont work when they made flute-bot create the Alien. Two timelines just make things a bit more seamless.
You mean fortunately considering the quality of AVP and AVPR.
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Feb 27, 2019, 12:51:48 AM
The canon debate is weird to me because it's trying to make a unified timeline when that just doesn't work these days. Unfortunately Prometheus and Covenant screwed things up so it just doesn't work.
I look at it like this;
Alien (includes Quadrilogy and the Prequels)
Predator (includes Predator films and AVP)
On the Predator front you can also choose among yourselves if Darkhorse's reboot affects things or if the old EU suits you.
Trying to make a unified timeline wont work when they made flute-bot create the Alien. Two timelines just make things a bit more seamless.
It sure is a weird debate, but for the reason that it's already been established and accepted for the last three decades that a single shared universe exists, and Prometheus and Covenant sure doesn't contradict this rather obvious fact (although they definitely confused and upset people).
Noting that David very clearly did NOT create the Aliens, but he merely produced his own variants and based them upon the black goo pathogen created by the Engineers and a pre-existing Ovomorph (Alien Egg) also created by the Engineers as revealed by the novel and an early script so that's settled already, and even if he did create them then that would be no problem either since The Predator declared time-travel as being a thing.
The actual canon objectively contains all twelve films (including Alien, Aliens, Predator, Predator 2, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, Alien vs. Predator, Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, Predators, Prometheus, Alien: Covenant, and The Predator) regardless of what anyone thinks of any of these entries into this overall franchise. You can of course settle for your own head canon if you want but objectively this is the way it is and I prefer to take in the entire buffet as it actually is as I was never any big fan of head canons or fan-fiction or dividing already established cinematic universes.
The Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus series are all connected, they're all canon, and that rubs some people the wrong way for some odd reason but it's the truth nevertheless, and I always thought this idea of two or more separate universes was pure unnecessary, confusing, inconsistent, nonsense. Because I take the natural route and simply assume continuity between all films and any other material from games, comics, novels and so on I have no problem. Just let this canon nonsense rest already.
But to answer the question of the thread, yes, the Weyland-Yutani Report further confirms the canonicity of Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus.
AVP, AVPR, The Predator and AVP 2010's not part of the continuity or canon of the Alien Universe, it's objectively the fact of the whole situation, if whether you like it or do not like it is inconsequential.
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 06:36:08 PM
But to answer the question of the thread, yes, the Weyland-Yutani Report further confirms the canonicity of Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus.
If you're talking strictly Alien film canon, AvP was indeed a canon prequel to Alien at one time, but Ridley has since retconned it out with Prometheus. Sorry.
Now if you're talking Alien EU: Cast members in The Predator confirmed that all six films were Predator canon: 4 Predators, 2 AVPs, all canon. On the Alien side, Prometheus retcons out AvP and the Predator creature, only to rope AvP and the Predator creature back into Alien EU canon per the Weyland-Yutani Report via Fire and Stone and subsequent stories. Of course, adding anything Predator related in Alien EU is canon to the first 1987 Predator film, which is subsequently canon to the AvP films, ultimately snapping the AvP films back into the Alien EU canon.
So in the Alien EU, in a very sloppy way, you stand correct. :)
Just because Alien 1979's canon to Predator 1987, obviously does not mean anything canon to Alien's then canon to Predator, especially as each's considered canonically separate at times.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/wDeR5t8wT0XO8/giphy.gif)
Also nothing actually says one's definitively canon to the other, honestly to most people behind the camera and in front of the camera so to speak, it's considered three separate continuities or more if you count entries no longer considered part of continuity or canon by any party.
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Feb 27, 2019, 12:51:48 AM
The canon debate is weird to me because it's trying to make a unified timeline when that just doesn't work these days. Unfortunately Prometheus and Covenant screwed things up so it just doesn't work.
I look at it like this;
Alien (includes Quadrilogy and the Prequels)
Predator (includes Predator films and AVP)
On the Predator front you can also choose among yourselves if Darkhorse's reboot affects things or if the old EU suits you.
Trying to make a unified timeline wont work when they made flute-bot create the Alien. Two timelines just make things a bit more seamless.
It sure is a weird debate, but for the reason that it's already been established and accepted for the last three decades that a single shared universe exists, and Prometheus and Covenant sure doesn't contradict this rather obvious fact (although they definitely confused and upset people).
Noting that David very clearly did NOT create the Aliens, but he merely produced his own variants and based them upon the black goo pathogen created by the Engineers and a pre-existing Ovomorph (Alien Egg) also created by the Engineers as revealed by the novel and an early script so that's settled already, and even if he did create them then that would be no problem either since The Predator declared time-travel as being a thing.
The actual canon objectively contains all twelve films (including Alien, Aliens, Predator, Predator 2, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, Alien vs. Predator, Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, Predators, Prometheus, Alien: Covenant, and The Predator) regardless of what anyone thinks of any of these entries into this overall franchise. You can of course settle for your own head canon if you want but objectively this is the way it is and I prefer to take in the entire buffet as it actually is as I was never any big fan of head canons or fan-fiction or dividing already established cinematic universes.
The Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus series are all connected, they're all canon, and that rubs some people the wrong way for some odd reason but it's the truth nevertheless, and I always thought this idea of two or more separate universes was pure unnecessary, confusing, inconsistent, nonsense. Because I take the natural route and simply assume continuity between all films and any other material from games, comics, novels and so on I have no problem. Just let this canon nonsense rest already.
But to answer the question of the thread, yes, the Weyland-Yutani Report further confirms the canonicity of Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus.
It's objectively not a single shared continuity.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Mar 16, 2020, 06:52:07 PM
AVP, AVPR, The Predator and AVP 2010's not part of the continuity or canon of the Alien Universe, it's objectively the fact of the whole situation, if whether you like it or do not like it is inconsequential.
But there's no evidence for this.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 16, 2020, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 06:36:08 PM
But to answer the question of the thread, yes, the Weyland-Yutani Report further confirms the canonicity of Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus.
If you're talking strictly Alien film canon, AvP was indeed a canon prequel to Alien at one time, but Ridley has since retconned it out with Prometheus. Sorry.
Now if you're talking Alien EU: Cast members in The Predator confirmed that all six films were Predator canon: 4 Predators, 2 AVPs, all canon. On the Alien side, Prometheus retcons out AvP and the Predator creature, only to rope AvP and the Predator creature back into Alien EU canon per the Weyland-Yutani Report via Fire and Stone and subsequent stories. Of course, adding anything Predator related in Alien EU is canon to the first 1987 Predator film, which is subsequently canon to the AvP films, ultimately snapping the AvP films back into the Alien EU canon.
So in the Alien EU, in a very sloppy way, you stand correct. :)
Nothing has been retconned.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Mar 16, 2020, 07:38:11 PM
Just because Alien 1979's canon to Predator 1987, obviously does not mean anything canon to Alien's then canon to Predator, especially as each's considered canonically separate at times.
There is no clear line separating any entry from the canon.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 16, 2020, 07:48:15 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/wDeR5t8wT0XO8/giphy.gif
XD
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Mar 16, 2020, 08:06:16 PM
Also nothing actually says one's definitively canon to the other, honestly to most people behind the camera and in front of the camera so to speak, it's considered three separate continuities or more if you count entries no longer considered part of continuity or canon by any party.
They're separate series, yes, but they officially take place within the same universe.
Quote from: SM on Mar 16, 2020, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Feb 27, 2019, 12:51:48 AM
The canon debate is weird to me because it's trying to make a unified timeline when that just doesn't work these days. Unfortunately Prometheus and Covenant screwed things up so it just doesn't work.
I look at it like this;
Alien (includes Quadrilogy and the Prequels)
Predator (includes Predator films and AVP)
On the Predator front you can also choose among yourselves if Darkhorse's reboot affects things or if the old EU suits you.
Trying to make a unified timeline wont work when they made flute-bot create the Alien. Two timelines just make things a bit more seamless.
It sure is a weird debate, but for the reason that it's already been established and accepted for the last three decades that a single shared universe exists, and Prometheus and Covenant sure doesn't contradict this rather obvious fact (although they definitely confused and upset people).
Noting that David very clearly did NOT create the Aliens, but he merely produced his own variants and based them upon the black goo pathogen created by the Engineers and a pre-existing Ovomorph (Alien Egg) also created by the Engineers as revealed by the novel and an early script so that's settled already, and even if he did create them then that would be no problem either since The Predator declared time-travel as being a thing.
The actual canon objectively contains all twelve films (including Alien, Aliens, Predator, Predator 2, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, Alien vs. Predator, Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, Predators, Prometheus, Alien: Covenant, and The Predator) regardless of what anyone thinks of any of these entries into this overall franchise. You can of course settle for your own head canon if you want but objectively this is the way it is and I prefer to take in the entire buffet as it actually is as I was never any big fan of head canons or fan-fiction or dividing already established cinematic universes.
The Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus series are all connected, they're all canon, and that rubs some people the wrong way for some odd reason but it's the truth nevertheless, and I always thought this idea of two or more separate universes was pure unnecessary, confusing, inconsistent, nonsense. Because I take the natural route and simply assume continuity between all films and any other material from games, comics, novels and so on I have no problem. Just let this canon nonsense rest already.
But to answer the question of the thread, yes, the Weyland-Yutani Report further confirms the canonicity of Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus.
It's objectively not a single shared continuity.
Which is of course an unsubstantiated claim.
SM is the one who substantiates.
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 09:36:32 PM
Nothing has been retconned.
Anderson indicated AvP was prequel to Alien. Now fast forward to Ridley Scott's return. Prometheus writer Damion Lindeloff brought up the concern to Ridley that their movie would be contradicting AvP:
Lindeloff: "When I said to [Ridley Scott], 'You know, Weyland was a character in one of the Alien Vs. Predator movies,' he just sort of looked at me like I had just slapped him in the face. That was the beginning, middle and end of all Alien Vs. Predator references in our story process."
Prometheus is your retcon.
Now cinematically Predator and AvP are officially the same canon.
(https://i.ibb.co/cFJ77H6/IMG-20200316-171937.jpg)
Alien film canon is separate at least for the moment. Things may change yet again. Who knows.
Now Alien EU canon on the other hand has brought Predator back into the fold and is super screwy to say the least. :)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 16, 2020, 09:54:00 PM
SM is the one who substantiates.
Unless the evidence contradicts it.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 16, 2020, 10:29:23 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 09:36:32 PM
Nothing has been retconned.
Anderson indicated AvP was prequel to Alien. Now fast forward to Ridley Scott's return. Prometheus writer Damion Lindeloff brought up the concern to Ridley that their movie would be contradicting AvP:
Lindeloff: "When I said to [Ridley Scott], 'You know, Weyland was a character in one of the Alien Vs. Predator movies,' he just sort of looked at me like I had just slapped him in the face. That was the beginning, middle and end of all Alien Vs. Predator references in our story process."
Prometheus is your retcon.
Now cinematically Predator and AvP are officially the same canon.
(https://i.ibb.co/cFJ77H6/IMG-20200316-171937.jpg)
Alien film canon is separate at least for the moment. Things may change yet again. Who knows.
Now Alien EU canon on the other hand has brought Predator back into the fold and is super screwy to say the least. :)
But that's not a retcon nor a contradiction, just a decision to ignore previous movies. It's as of yet an unsubstantiated claim that Alien and Prometheus would be separate from Predator and AVP.
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 09:36:32 PM
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Mar 16, 2020, 06:52:07 PM
AVP, AVPR, The Predator and AVP 2010's not part of the continuity or canon of the Alien Universe, it's objectively the fact of the whole situation, if whether you like it or do not like it is inconsequential.
But there's no evidence for this.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 16, 2020, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 06:36:08 PM
But to answer the question of the thread, yes, the Weyland-Yutani Report further confirms the canonicity of Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus.
If you're talking strictly Alien film canon, AvP was indeed a canon prequel to Alien at one time, but Ridley has since retconned it out with Prometheus. Sorry.
Now if you're talking Alien EU: Cast members in The Predator confirmed that all six films were Predator canon: 4 Predators, 2 AVPs, all canon. On the Alien side, Prometheus retcons out AvP and the Predator creature, only to rope AvP and the Predator creature back into Alien EU canon per the Weyland-Yutani Report via Fire and Stone and subsequent stories. Of course, adding anything Predator related in Alien EU is canon to the first 1987 Predator film, which is subsequently canon to the AvP films, ultimately snapping the AvP films back into the Alien EU canon.
So in the Alien EU, in a very sloppy way, you stand correct. :)
Nothing has been retconned.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Mar 16, 2020, 07:38:11 PM
Just because Alien 1979's canon to Predator 1987, obviously does not mean anything canon to Alien's then canon to Predator, especially as each's considered canonically separate at times.
There is no clear line separating any entry from the canon.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 16, 2020, 07:48:15 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/wDeR5t8wT0XO8/giphy.gif
XD
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Mar 16, 2020, 08:06:16 PM
Also nothing actually says one's definitively canon to the other, honestly to most people behind the camera and in front of the camera so to speak, it's considered three separate continuities or more if you count entries no longer considered part of continuity or canon by any party.
They're separate series, yes, but they officially take place within the same universe.
Quote from: SM on Mar 16, 2020, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Feb 27, 2019, 12:51:48 AM
The canon debate is weird to me because it's trying to make a unified timeline when that just doesn't work these days. Unfortunately Prometheus and Covenant screwed things up so it just doesn't work.
I look at it like this;
Alien (includes Quadrilogy and the Prequels)
Predator (includes Predator films and AVP)
On the Predator front you can also choose among yourselves if Darkhorse's reboot affects things or if the old EU suits you.
Trying to make a unified timeline wont work when they made flute-bot create the Alien. Two timelines just make things a bit more seamless.
It sure is a weird debate, but for the reason that it's already been established and accepted for the last three decades that a single shared universe exists, and Prometheus and Covenant sure doesn't contradict this rather obvious fact (although they definitely confused and upset people).
Noting that David very clearly did NOT create the Aliens, but he merely produced his own variants and based them upon the black goo pathogen created by the Engineers and a pre-existing Ovomorph (Alien Egg) also created by the Engineers as revealed by the novel and an early script so that's settled already, and even if he did create them then that would be no problem either since The Predator declared time-travel as being a thing.
The actual canon objectively contains all twelve films (including Alien, Aliens, Predator, Predator 2, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, Alien vs. Predator, Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, Predators, Prometheus, Alien: Covenant, and The Predator) regardless of what anyone thinks of any of these entries into this overall franchise. You can of course settle for your own head canon if you want but objectively this is the way it is and I prefer to take in the entire buffet as it actually is as I was never any big fan of head canons or fan-fiction or dividing already established cinematic universes.
The Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus series are all connected, they're all canon, and that rubs some people the wrong way for some odd reason but it's the truth nevertheless, and I always thought this idea of two or more separate universes was pure unnecessary, confusing, inconsistent, nonsense. Because I take the natural route and simply assume continuity between all films and any other material from games, comics, novels and so on I have no problem. Just let this canon nonsense rest already.
But to answer the question of the thread, yes, the Weyland-Yutani Report further confirms the canonicity of Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus.
It's objectively not a single shared continuity.
Which is of course an unsubstantiated claim.
The Weyland Corporation in Prometheus is completely divorced from the Weyland Corporation of AvP. Peter Weyland created Weyland Corp in Prometheus/ Alien; not Charles Bishop Weyland who did it in the AvP continuity.
David created the Xenomorph in Prometheus/ Alien. In AvP they've been around a lot longer.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Mar 16, 2020, 10:37:04 PM
SM substantiated the fact 20th Century Fox no longer counts AVP or AVPR as part of Alien's continuity and canon.
Except he never did.
Ridley Scott did.
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 10:30:34 PM
But that's not a retcon nor a contradiction, just a decision to ignore previous movies.
Did you just say that? Now you get this gif too.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/wDeR5t8wT0XO8/giphy.gif)
Quote from: SM on Mar 16, 2020, 10:39:12 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 09:36:32 PM
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Mar 16, 2020, 06:52:07 PM
AVP, AVPR, The Predator and AVP 2010's not part of the continuity or canon of the Alien Universe, it's objectively the fact of the whole situation, if whether you like it or do not like it is inconsequential.
But there's no evidence for this.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 16, 2020, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 06:36:08 PM
But to answer the question of the thread, yes, the Weyland-Yutani Report further confirms the canonicity of Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus.
If you're talking strictly Alien film canon, AvP was indeed a canon prequel to Alien at one time, but Ridley has since retconned it out with Prometheus. Sorry.
Now if you're talking Alien EU: Cast members in The Predator confirmed that all six films were Predator canon: 4 Predators, 2 AVPs, all canon. On the Alien side, Prometheus retcons out AvP and the Predator creature, only to rope AvP and the Predator creature back into Alien EU canon per the Weyland-Yutani Report via Fire and Stone and subsequent stories. Of course, adding anything Predator related in Alien EU is canon to the first 1987 Predator film, which is subsequently canon to the AvP films, ultimately snapping the AvP films back into the Alien EU canon.
So in the Alien EU, in a very sloppy way, you stand correct. :)
Nothing has been retconned.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Mar 16, 2020, 07:38:11 PM
Just because Alien 1979's canon to Predator 1987, obviously does not mean anything canon to Alien's then canon to Predator, especially as each's considered canonically separate at times.
There is no clear line separating any entry from the canon.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 16, 2020, 07:48:15 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/wDeR5t8wT0XO8/giphy.gif
XD
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Mar 16, 2020, 08:06:16 PM
Also nothing actually says one's definitively canon to the other, honestly to most people behind the camera and in front of the camera so to speak, it's considered three separate continuities or more if you count entries no longer considered part of continuity or canon by any party.
They're separate series, yes, but they officially take place within the same universe.
Quote from: SM on Mar 16, 2020, 08:56:59 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Feb 27, 2019, 12:51:48 AM
The canon debate is weird to me because it's trying to make a unified timeline when that just doesn't work these days. Unfortunately Prometheus and Covenant screwed things up so it just doesn't work.
I look at it like this;
Alien (includes Quadrilogy and the Prequels)
Predator (includes Predator films and AVP)
On the Predator front you can also choose among yourselves if Darkhorse's reboot affects things or if the old EU suits you.
Trying to make a unified timeline wont work when they made flute-bot create the Alien. Two timelines just make things a bit more seamless.
It sure is a weird debate, but for the reason that it's already been established and accepted for the last three decades that a single shared universe exists, and Prometheus and Covenant sure doesn't contradict this rather obvious fact (although they definitely confused and upset people).
Noting that David very clearly did NOT create the Aliens, but he merely produced his own variants and based them upon the black goo pathogen created by the Engineers and a pre-existing Ovomorph (Alien Egg) also created by the Engineers as revealed by the novel and an early script so that's settled already, and even if he did create them then that would be no problem either since The Predator declared time-travel as being a thing.
The actual canon objectively contains all twelve films (including Alien, Aliens, Predator, Predator 2, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, Alien vs. Predator, Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, Predators, Prometheus, Alien: Covenant, and The Predator) regardless of what anyone thinks of any of these entries into this overall franchise. You can of course settle for your own head canon if you want but objectively this is the way it is and I prefer to take in the entire buffet as it actually is as I was never any big fan of head canons or fan-fiction or dividing already established cinematic universes.
The Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus series are all connected, they're all canon, and that rubs some people the wrong way for some odd reason but it's the truth nevertheless, and I always thought this idea of two or more separate universes was pure unnecessary, confusing, inconsistent, nonsense. Because I take the natural route and simply assume continuity between all films and any other material from games, comics, novels and so on I have no problem. Just let this canon nonsense rest already.
But to answer the question of the thread, yes, the Weyland-Yutani Report further confirms the canonicity of Alien, Predator, AVP, and Prometheus.
It's objectively not a single shared continuity.
Which is of course an unsubstantiated claim.
The Weyland Corporation in Prometheus is completely divorced from the Weyland Corporation of AvP. Peter Weyland created Weyland Corp in Prometheus/ Alien; not Charles Bishop Weyland who did it in the AvP continuity.
David created the Xenomorph in Prometheus/ Alien. In AvP they've been around a lot longer.
There is no evidence that Charles Weyland and Peter Weyland are not related to each other but various evidence exists to suggest a connection, and likewise there is no evidence that David created the Xenomorphs and even if he did that wouldn't contradict AVP due to Predators clearly being capable of time travel as per The Predator.
Quote from: SM on Mar 16, 2020, 10:41:36 PM
Ridley Scott did.
No, I'm pretty sure he never did.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 16, 2020, 10:42:42 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 16, 2020, 10:30:34 PM
But that's not a retcon nor a contradiction, just a decision to ignore previous movies.
Did you just say that? Now you get this gif too.
https://media.giphy.com/media/wDeR5t8wT0XO8/giphy.gif
I did just say that. Merely ignoring certain events is not equal to retconning or contradicting. Sorry for any confusion.
-Abort and delete my reply from orbit
It is the only way to be sure.
QuoteThere is no evidence that Charles Weyland and Peter Weyland are not related to each other but various evidence exists to suggest a connection, and likewise there is no evidence that David created the Xenomorphs and even if he did that wouldn't contradict AVP due to Predators clearly being capable of time travel as per The Predator.
None of what you've just said is "objective". It's fanon.
Quote from: SM on Mar 16, 2020, 11:14:09 PM
QuoteThere is no evidence that Charles Weyland and Peter Weyland are not related to each other but various evidence exists to suggest a connection, and likewise there is no evidence that David created the Xenomorphs and even if he did that wouldn't contradict AVP due to Predators clearly being capable of time travel as per The Predator.
None of what you've just said is "objective". It's fanon.
Pretty sure it's not.
The fact you're only "pretty sure" tells me all I need to know.
You want it on your feet or on your knees?
Quote from: SM on Mar 16, 2020, 11:24:48 PM
The fact you're only "pretty sure" tells me all I need to know.
It's called sarcasm. You may have heard of it.
How's that working out for you so far?
Quote from: SM on Mar 17, 2020, 12:02:49 AM
How's that working out for you so far?
How do you mean?
Is anyone taking your arguments seriously?
*Friendly Fire - Enabled*
Quote from: SM on Mar 17, 2020, 09:31:35 PM
Is anyone taking your arguments seriously?
Judging from past experience I've seen quite a lot of people siding with me, so yeah, though the validity of my arguments is not determined by the degree to which they are accepted by any number of people (adding that their motivation seems to be because they understand the apparent validity of my arguments and also desire to keep a unified fanbase and a consistent universe).
It's not going magically to give your arguments any validity, but best of luck.
Quote from: SM on Mar 18, 2020, 10:22:48 AM
It's not going magically to give your arguments any validity, but best of luck.
"What" is not going to give my arguments validity?
Because it's wrong. Are you the same person who was arguing with us on the Facebook group the other day? Seems like you are.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 18, 2020, 04:28:02 PM
Because it's wrong. Are you the same person who was arguing with us on the Facebook group the other day? Seems like you are.
What do you mean "because it's wrong"? I asked WHAT, not WHY, in case you read my question wrong. Also, yes, I'm pretty sure I am the same individual. Why?
I did indeed read it wrong. My appologies.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 18, 2020, 07:55:02 PM
I did indeed read it wrong. My appologies.
No worries. Mistakes happen.
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 18, 2020, 04:27:09 PM
Quote from: SM on Mar 18, 2020, 10:22:48 AM
It's not going magically to give your arguments any validity, but best of luck.
"What" is not going to give my arguments validity?
You choosing to ignore contrary points because you're "pretty sure".
If you're not going to discuss in good faith, then there's little point in discussing. Even if Hicks read you wrong - you're still wrong.
SM isn't suffering fools lately.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F08%2Fdr-mccoy-and-captain-kirk-approve.gif&hash=1fee813964e30a665fa7f20810c9c2d236828007)
We already suffered this argument through on the Facebook group.
Suffered, I tell you!
I find them painful. It makes me sad. No-one is ever interested in the actual official stances.
Do you ever feel like Sisyphus?
Nah, I don't normally get involved. I know it's a pointless discussion to get into, and ultimately it means nothing to me. I just let myself get sucked into it yesterday.
I was referring to your car.
I think it'd be easier to just walk rather than pushing your car up a hill.
I'm sure there's a metaphor for this discussion in there somewhere.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 09:05:29 AM
I was referring to your car.
We'll see what breaks on her next. She's fine after the last work now.
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 01:28:37 AM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 18, 2020, 04:27:09 PM
Quote from: SM on Mar 18, 2020, 10:22:48 AM
It's not going magically to give your arguments any validity, but best of luck.
"What" is not going to give my arguments validity?
You choosing to ignore contrary points because you're "pretty sure".
If you're not going to discuss in good faith, then there's little point in discussing. Even if Hicks read you wrong - you're still wrong.
That made no sense. I haven't ignored any "contrary points" but I always address whatever counterarguments I encounter, and my comment that I was "pretty sure" was still sarcasm communicating that my case seems relatively solid, hence my confidence and strong conviction. When have I not been sincere in our discussion? You're still left with the requirement of reconciling the inconsistencies between your assertions and Fox's products which seems to prove you wrong. If anyone is refusing to operate under good faith then that would seem to be you in this case, and it seems highly unreasonable to expect that I'm supposed to just drop my convictions and arguments merely by you telling me "You're wrong!" and insisting upon it. But by all means, feel free to disregard my arguments and refuse to discuss these matters, it doesn't matter to me if you leave the conversation (except it makes things more interesting to hear your responses), and I'll just take that as a declaration of surrender on your part. I mean it's your call.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 19, 2020, 08:17:25 AM
We already suffered this argument through on the Facebook group.
I mean, needless to say, I didn't find your arguments very compelling.
There's no arguments to be made. Just facts to be told that people such as yourself ignore for your own preferences. Which is perfectly fine, but it's the inability to acknowledge that the way you see things isn't the way Fox/Studios did, that makes these "discussions" insufferable for some folk.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 19, 2020, 11:05:22 AM
There's no arguments to be made. Just facts to be told that people such as yourself ignore for your own preferences. Which is perfectly fine, but it's the inability to acknowledge that the way you see things isn't the way Fox/Studios did, that makes these "discussions" insufferable for some folk.
That's not an argument though (and I would just make the same "argument" the other way around), but it's just a variant of the "You're wrong!" response, and it's still extremely doubtful that I would be in any way persuaded by this type of reasoning.
So I guess I'm missing all the "fun" not being on Facebook.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/nXxOjZrbnbRxS/giphy.gif)
Predator film canon - All 4 Predator films and both AvPs
Alien film canon - Both Prequels and all 4 Alien films.
EU, have at it and go crazy.
Easy-peasy
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 19, 2020, 11:05:22 AM
There's no arguments to be made. Just facts to be told that people such as yourself ignore for your own preferences. Which is perfectly fine, but it's the inability to acknowledge that the way you see things isn't the way Fox/Studios did, that makes these "discussions" insufferable for some folk.
That's not an argument though (and I would just make the same "argument" the other way around), but it's just a variant of the "You're wrong!" response, and it's still extremely doubtful that I would be in any way persuaded by this type of reasoning.
You're right. It's not an argument, as I said. There is no argument to made about it. It's a simple fact. You don't like the official stance, you're welcome not to. You're welcome to your own fanon - which is what it is - but let's not pretend that Fox didn't have their own take on the situation which has been numerously relayed by people working with/for/associated with Fox.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2020, 11:28:30 AM
So I guess I'm missing all the "fun" not being on Facebook.
Just another repeat of the same tiring "conversation".
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2020, 11:28:30 AM
So I guess I'm missing all the "fun" not being on Facebook.
https://media.giphy.com/media/nXxOjZrbnbRxS/giphy.gif
Predator film canon - All 4 Predator films and both AvPs
Alien film canon - Both Prequels and all 4 Alien films.
EU, have at it and go crazy.
Easy-peasy
Alternatively, and perhaps more reasonable, the canon goes as follows;
Primary Canon - Movies (Alien, Aliens, Predator, Predator 2, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, Alien vs. Predator, Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, Predators, Prometheus, Covenant, The Predator)
Secondary Canon - Expanded Universe (games, comics, novels, books etc.)
In this more objectively and logically sound system the Primary Canon establishes the foundation for this fictional universe and does not rely on the Secondary Canon, whereas the Secondary Canon merely provides additions and expansions to the universe and does rely on the Primary Canon.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 19, 2020, 11:35:58 AM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 19, 2020, 11:05:22 AM
There's no arguments to be made. Just facts to be told that people such as yourself ignore for your own preferences. Which is perfectly fine, but it's the inability to acknowledge that the way you see things isn't the way Fox/Studios did, that makes these "discussions" insufferable for some folk.
That's not an argument though (and I would just make the same "argument" the other way around), but it's just a variant of the "You're wrong!" response, and it's still extremely doubtful that I would be in any way persuaded by this type of reasoning.
You're right. It's not an argument, as I said. There is no argument to made about it. It's a simple fact. You don't like the official stance, you're welcome not to. You're welcome to your own fanon - which is what it is - but let's not pretend that Fox didn't have their own take on the situation which has been numerously relayed by people working with/for/associated with Fox.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2020, 11:28:30 AM
So I guess I'm missing all the "fun" not being on Facebook.
Just another repeat of the same tiring "conversation".
That's still not an argument. From my perspective, I'm looking at this objectively, disregarding fanon and false claims, and I'm afraid your efforts here are pointless unless you can properly account for the inconsistencies between SM's claims and Fox's products, and you still can't seriously expect me to be persuaded by your mere insistance that I'm wrong.
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 11:39:31 AM
That's still not an argument. From my perspective, I'm looking at this objectively, disregarding fanon and false claims, and I'm afraid your efforts here are pointless unless you can properly account for the inconsistencies between SM's claims and Fox's products, and you still can't seriously expect me to be persuaded by your mere insistance that I'm wrong.
You're not looking at it objectively. You're looking at it from a desire on your part to fit it all together, inserting your own explanations and insisting that's objective. There's nothing wrong with trying to fit it together - you can insert your own views on it, but it just doesn't make it official or objective.
By your reckoning, there's a chance we could end up with some witch/Alien hybrids in an Alien film, because the Predator once fought Archie. These things are allowed to exist in isolation, and it doesn't diminish their value or entertainment because they might not be canon.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 19, 2020, 12:06:59 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 11:39:31 AM
That's still not an argument. From my perspective, I'm looking at this objectively, disregarding fanon and false claims, and I'm afraid your efforts here are pointless unless you can properly account for the inconsistencies between SM's claims and Fox's products, and you still can't seriously expect me to be persuaded by your mere insistance that I'm wrong.
You're not looking at it objectively. You're looking at it from a desire on your part to fit it all together, inserting your own explanations and insisting that's objective. There's nothing wrong with trying to fit it together - you can insert your own views on it, but it just doesn't make it official or objective.
By your reckoning, there's a chance we could end up with some witch/Alien hybrids in an Alien film, because the Predator once fought Archie. These things are allowed to exist in isolation, and it doesn't diminish their value or entertainment because they might not be canon.
I do undoubtedly desire to fit everything together, but my arguments are most certainly objective, and they are based on the official products, not on any personal concepts and preferences. Noting that I also desire to see the Blade Runner, Terminator, and Robocop franchises be incorporated into the Alien/Predator Universe but you don't see me arguing for this being true because there's no actual evidence (outside of a comic and some easter egg) to suggest a connection. Noting further that Archie is not owned by Disney/20th Century Studios, but such comics only happened because Dark Horse Comics had the licenses to both Predator and Archie, and in this case because they are not owned by the same company it becomes harder to suggest any canonical value to it, hence this and any other similar crossovers would fit into the Soft Canon category and could potentially take place in alternate universes if Fox would make such an announcement (though I doubt they will and I doubt they care). Also, this is hardly comparable to something as well-established as the Alien/Predator Universe which 20th Century Fox clearly endorsed.
The second you said The Predator shows that Predators can time-travel kind'a sucked any power out of the "I'm being objective" argument. Of all the things the film showed, that wasn't one of them.
Ah, but you see, we found out about some deleted scenes that Fox never wanted out there that implies time travel(?)! So it's 100% in there and relevant.
This sounds like a canon war. Is this a canon war?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 19, 2020, 12:47:15 PM
Ah, but you see, we found out about some deleted scenes that Fox never wanted out there that implies time travel(?)! So it's 100% in there and relevant.
Ohhh, we're playing that game.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 19, 2020, 12:45:46 PM
The second you said The Predator shows that Predators can time-travel kind'a sucked any power out of the "I'm being objective" argument. Of all the things the film showed, that wasn't one of them.
Except the film clearly showed the Predators being capable of bending space-time and the deleted scenes would clearly confirm this intention.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 19, 2020, 12:47:15 PM
Ah, but you see, we found out about some deleted scenes that Fox never wanted out there that implies time travel(?)! So it's 100% in there and relevant.
Technically yes.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 19, 2020, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 19, 2020, 12:47:15 PM
Ah, but you see, we found out about some deleted scenes that Fox never wanted out there that implies time travel(?)! So it's 100% in there and relevant.
Ohhh, we're playing that game.
It's going to be good! ^^
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
This sounds like a canon war. Is this a canon war?
It might very well be my friend.
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 12:59:00 PM
Except the film clearly showed the Predators being capable of bending space-time and the deleted scenes would clearly confirm this intention.
The film shows them creating holes to travel through space, not time. The Ripley and Newt endings were never used. Your argument isn't objective; they clearly avoided the time warping endings to go with the killer suit, so the film has taken deliberate steps to avoid time travel.
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 12:59:00 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
This sounds like a canon war. Is this a canon war?
It might very well be my friend.
Then you need Xenomrph. You can't have a true canon war without him.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 01:12:25 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 12:59:00 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
This sounds like a canon war. Is this a canon war?
It might very well be my friend.
Then you need Xenomrph. You can't have a true canon war without him.
:D. Indeed!
Quote from: SiL on Mar 19, 2020, 01:05:53 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 12:59:00 PM
Except the film clearly showed the Predators being capable of bending space-time and the deleted scenes would clearly confirm this intention.
The film shows them creating holes to travel through space, not time. The Ripley and Newt endings were never used. Your argument isn't objective; they clearly avoided the time warping endings to go with the killer suit, so the film has taken deliberate steps to avoid time travel.
Fair enough, but the thing about creating holes to travel through space is that in such a process you are unavoidably travelling through time and if you can bend space then you can travel through time, and the Ripley and Newt endings surely were never used, but they would clearly be used to further the point of the timetravelling aspect of the Predators' technology, and so it doesn't really matter whether they removed it or not seeing as the mere knowledge of these scenes reinforced this already suggested concept.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 01:12:25 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 12:59:00 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
This sounds like a canon war. Is this a canon war?
It might very well be my friend.
Then you need Xenomrph. You can't have a true canon war without him.
Can't go without him!
So TurokSwe, serious, honest question: When people in The Predator, in the actual movie, literally say there are 6 movies in Predator canon.... that actually means nothing to you? You just presume to know better?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
This sounds like a canon war. Is this a canon war?
It was bound to happen again sooner or later.
AvP should be its own universe. Trying to link the two together causes to many problems. Even Ridley Scott purposely contradicted AvP when he made Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2020, 01:33:09 PM
So TurokSwe, serious, honest question: When people in The Predator, in the actual movie, literally say there are 6 movies in Predator canon.... that actually means nothing to you? You just presume to know better?
No, I don't presume to know better, and no, it doesn't mean "nothing" to me, but what needs to be pointed out in this instance is that what the crew has been referring to here is not the actual Alien/Predator canon but merely the movies featuring the Predator, not all the movies in any shared universe, but solely focusing on Predator in this instance, and technically in the Predator franchise there are six films, in the Alien franchise there are eight films, and then we have the lesser categories of the AVP franchise which consists of two films but counts for both Alien and Predator, and finally there's the Prometheus franchise which is more connected to Alien than it is to Predator.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 19, 2020, 01:33:57 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
This sounds like a canon war. Is this a canon war?
It was bound to happen again sooner or later.
It always is it would seem.
Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Mar 19, 2020, 01:40:08 PM
AvP should be its own universe. Trying to link the two together causes to many problems. Even Ridley Scott purposely contradicted AvP when he made Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.
I don't see any genuine problems that it supposedly causes, and I would argue that attempting to separate these into several universes causes considerably more problems than uniting them would. Ridley Scott also did not "purposely contradict" AVP, he just ignored it without caring if he affirmed it or contradicted it, and FYI he did in fact NOT contradict AVP with either Prometheus or Covenant.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 19, 2020, 01:33:57 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
This sounds like a canon war. Is this a canon war?
It was bound to happen again sooner or later.
To me, it's a strange time to do so though. Never has reality been this clear.
Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Mar 19, 2020, 01:40:08 PM
AvP should be its own universe. Trying to link the two together causes to many problems. Even Ridley Scott purposely contradicted AvP when he made Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.
"Should" is opinion, and that's exactly what has gotten us into trouble over the years.
Fan desire projected as reality versus reality. But AvP was canon to both Alien and Predator, and still is where Predator is concerned. Multiple players from The Predator have stated as such. I turned Keegan-Michael Key's quote into a graphic below:
(https://i.ibb.co/cFJ77H6/IMG-20200316-171937.jpg)
https://www.cnet.com/news/keegan-michael-key-takes-on-the-predator-q-and-a/
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 01:46:57 PM
No, I don't presume to know better, and no, it doesn't mean "nothing" to me, but what needs to be pointed out in this instance is that what the crew has been referring to here is not the actual canon but merely the movies featuring the Predator
I seem to see the word "canon" used above, so... you were saying? :P
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2020, 01:52:27 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 19, 2020, 01:33:57 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
This sounds like a canon war. Is this a canon war?
It was bound to happen again sooner or later.
To me, it's a strange time to do so though. Never has reality been this clear.
Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Mar 19, 2020, 01:40:08 PM
AvP should be its own universe. Trying to link the two together causes to many problems. Even Ridley Scott purposely contradicted AvP when he made Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.
"Should" is opinion, and that's exactly what has gotten us into trouble over the years. Fan desire projected as reality versus reality. But AvP was canon to both Alien and Predator, and still is where Predator is concerned. Multiple players from The Predator have stated as such. I turned Keegan-Michael Key's quote into a graphic below:
(https://i.ibb.co/cFJ77H6/IMG-20200316-171937.jpg)
https://www.cnet.com/news/keegan-michael-key-takes-on-the-predator-q-and-a/
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 01:46:57 PM
No, I don't presume to know better, and no, it doesn't mean "nothing" to me, but what needs to be pointed out in this instance is that what the crew has been referring to here is not the actual canon but merely the movies featuring the Predator
I seem to see the word "canon" used above, so... you were saying? :P
Let me clarify that I was attempting to refer to the mere focus on single series, in which case there are technically six Predator films (with a main series of four films) and eight Alien films (with a main series of four films), but two AVP films (which counts as both Alien and Predator films) and two Prometheus films (which mostly only counts as Alien films), and yet they all are parts of an even larger shared universe, and you'll find this sort of classification here and there in media and interviews.
There is a creative bible created by Fox and handed to licensees that specifically states - Alien and Prometheus are the same universe.
No AvP.
Enjoy ur fanon.
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 08:44:46 PM
There is a creative bible created by Fox and handed to licensees that specifically states - Alien and Prometheus are the same universe.
No AvP.
Enjoy ur fanon.
I might need some verification of this. Where can I read this supposed "creative bible" and its contents and when was it written and by whom? I don't think your tone is very helpful.
Pretty sure most such "bibles" are for in-house reference only, not public consumption.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_(screenwriting) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_(screenwriting))
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 09:49:40 PM
Pretty sure most such "bibles" are for in-house reference only, not public consumption.
Yeah, it's pretty much what I'm getting at, as there's no verification as to the existence of this "bible" (though I don't necessarily doubt that there is one), its contents, its authors, the circumstances of its supposed creation and purpose etc.
Then how do you expect verification beyond SM's word? Do you think he's lying to you?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 09:58:32 PM
Then how do you expect verification beyond SM's word? Do you think he's lying to you?
It wouldn't be the first time I've been lied to, so I would say I ought to be cautious. I've learned my lesson there.
When one is so deep in a particular delusion, everything else seems like a lie.
The contents of the bible details nearly every piece of licensed content since Alien became an IP in 1979.
The purpose is that it's provided to licensees when creating new content.
The circumstances of its creation are because Fox wanted one.
The author is mostly me.
SiL can verify because he leant me his copy of DNA War to write the entry for it.
No, you can't see it.
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 10:08:52 PM
The author is mostly me.
:o
Now
that I did not know.
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 10:08:52 PM
SiL can verify because he leant me his copy of DNA War to write the entry for it.
DNA War is on it? :P
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 10:08:52 PM
When one is so deep in a particular delusion, everything else seems like a lie.
The contents of the bible details nearly every piece of licensed content since Alien became an IP in 1979.
The purpose is that it's provided to licensees when creating new content.
The circumstances of its creation are because Fox wanted one.
The author is mostly me.
SiL can verify because he leant me his copy of DNA War to write the entry for it.
No, you can't see it.
What is my "particular delusion" and when did I imply everything else was a lie? Is it not possible that I may not see compelling reasons to adopt your view from my perspective? You are here expecting me to take your word for it, while also describing yourself as the author, as if that shouldn't raise any red flags. Again, I do not think that your attitude is helpful, especially not if your intention is to persuade me to the point that I could agree with you.
It started as a fan-written unofficial EU bible that is now a help to Titan writers, but it's a bible that 20th Century Fox (now Pictures) doesn't adhere to.
(https://www.scified.com/u/Screenshot_20190101-125248_Instagram.jpg)
20th Century leads, we follow. ;D
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2020, 10:29:34 PM
It started as a fan-written unofficial EU bible that is now a help to Titan writers, but it's a bible that 20th Century Fox (now Pictures) doesn't adhere to.
(https://www.scified.com/u/Screenshot_20190101-125248_Instagram.jpg)
20th Century leads, we follow. ;D
NEWT!!!<333 I really wish I knew what was going on behind the scenes though...
Sure we do. SM said he started it on his own. And we know he has been proven incorrect by Fox's choices and has to adapt accordingly. It's not a bad thing.
Let me rephrase then, tell me your method of acquiring such information, for example it started as unofficial or official?
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 10:08:52 PM
When one is so deep in a particular delusion, everything else seems like a lie.
The contents of the bible details nearly every piece of licensed content since Alien became an IP in 1979.
The purpose is that it's provided to licensees when creating new content.
The circumstances of its creation are because Fox wanted one.
The author is mostly me.
SiL can verify because he leant me his copy of DNA War to write the entry for it.
No, you can't see it.
What is my "particular delusion" and when did I imply everything else was a lie? Is it not possible that I may not see compelling reasons to adopt your view from my perspective? You are here expecting me to take your word for it, while also describing yourself as the author, as if that shouldn't raise any red flags. Again, I do not think that your attitude is helpful, especially not if your intention is to persuade me to the point that I could agree with you.
It's not my job to persuade you of something that's a fact.
I was contracted by Fox to work on it. Whether that raises red flags for you is entirely irrelevant.
Won't you lose sleep tonight if you don't convince him though?
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 10:08:52 PM
When one is so deep in a particular delusion, everything else seems like a lie.
The contents of the bible details nearly every piece of licensed content since Alien became an IP in 1979.
The purpose is that it's provided to licensees when creating new content.
The circumstances of its creation are because Fox wanted one.
The author is mostly me.
SiL can verify because he leant me his copy of DNA War to write the entry for it.
No, you can't see it.
What is my "particular delusion" and when did I imply everything else was a lie? Is it not possible that I may not see compelling reasons to adopt your view from my perspective? You are here expecting me to take your word for it, while also describing yourself as the author, as if that shouldn't raise any red flags. Again, I do not think that your attitude is helpful, especially not if your intention is to persuade me to the point that I could agree with you.
It's not my job to persuade you of something that's a fact.
I was contracted by Fox to work on it. Whether that raises red flags for you is entirely irrelevant.
Well then I'm not sure what you hope to achieve through our conversation if nothing that you say is verifiable, and you merely respond by being condescending, and you claim not to care about persuading me when you seem to have been attempting to do just that time and time again, although by merely insisting upon your own authority.
So it is official.
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 10:59:11 PM
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 10:08:52 PM
When one is so deep in a particular delusion, everything else seems like a lie.
The contents of the bible details nearly every piece of licensed content since Alien became an IP in 1979.
The purpose is that it's provided to licensees when creating new content.
The circumstances of its creation are because Fox wanted one.
The author is mostly me.
SiL can verify because he leant me his copy of DNA War to write the entry for it.
No, you can't see it.
What is my "particular delusion" and when did I imply everything else was a lie? Is it not possible that I may not see compelling reasons to adopt your view from my perspective? You are here expecting me to take your word for it, while also describing yourself as the author, as if that shouldn't raise any red flags. Again, I do not think that your attitude is helpful, especially not if your intention is to persuade me to the point that I could agree with you.
It's not my job to persuade you of something that's a fact.
I was contracted by Fox to work on it. Whether that raises red flags for you is entirely irrelevant.
Well then I'm not sure what you hope to achieve through our conversation if nothing that you say is verifiable, and you merely respond by being condescending, and you claim not to care about persuading me when you seem to have been attempting to do just that time and time again, although by merely insisting upon your own authority.
One shouldn't argue in bad faith and not expect condescension.
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 11:02:34 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 10:59:11 PM
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: TurokSwe on Mar 19, 2020, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 10:08:52 PM
When one is so deep in a particular delusion, everything else seems like a lie.
The contents of the bible details nearly every piece of licensed content since Alien became an IP in 1979.
The purpose is that it's provided to licensees when creating new content.
The circumstances of its creation are because Fox wanted one.
The author is mostly me.
SiL can verify because he leant me his copy of DNA War to write the entry for it.
No, you can't see it.
What is my "particular delusion" and when did I imply everything else was a lie? Is it not possible that I may not see compelling reasons to adopt your view from my perspective? You are here expecting me to take your word for it, while also describing yourself as the author, as if that shouldn't raise any red flags. Again, I do not think that your attitude is helpful, especially not if your intention is to persuade me to the point that I could agree with you.
It's not my job to persuade you of something that's a fact.
I was contracted by Fox to work on it. Whether that raises red flags for you is entirely irrelevant.
Well then I'm not sure what you hope to achieve through our conversation if nothing that you say is verifiable, and you merely respond by being condescending, and you claim not to care about persuading me when you seem to have been attempting to do just that time and time again, although by merely insisting upon your own authority.
One shouldn't argue in bad faith and not expect condescension.
One shouldn't argue without sufficient justification and expect to be taken seriously.
Precisely the reason I can't take your arguments seriously.
Quote from: SM on Mar 19, 2020, 11:12:22 PM
Precisely the reason I can't take your arguments seriously.
What are you trying to do by resorting to this sort of juvenile response? I mean if the purpose is still to persuade me of the validity of your stance then you've most certainly failed miserably. I'm afraid I just don't understand what you're trying to do here but it doesn't seem very productive.
Just like it go.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 19, 2020, 10:29:34 PM
It started as a fan-written unofficial EU bible that is now a help to Titan writers, but it's a bible that 20th Century Fox (now Pictures) doesn't adhere to.
(https://www.scified.com/u/Screenshot_20190101-125248_Instagram.jpg)
20th Century leads, we follow. ;D
Huh. When you put it like that.
Is it over?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 19, 2020, 11:36:11 PM
Is it over?
Yes, I would say so. It doesn't seem like we're getting much further than this.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/60/6a/7b/606a7bb3645901f27a5f022b5b6db16e.jpg)
It was only a fool's hope.
It might have been just easier to show your link in regards to what you've been up to, i.e. helping with the Weyland-Yutani Report, and the Alien timeline you created now on Wordpress.
https://yutani.studio/2018/01/09/keeping-time/
https://alientimeline.wordpress.com
Nah, SM needs some Fox registered copyright or patent tattooed to him to be considered worthwhile by Turok. :-\
And the Newt thing never counts. It wasn't in the actual film. As interesting as deleted scenes are, they're never anything more than a curiosity unless they end up in some re-released version of the film.
I've got this barcode on the back of me bonce.
But can it be scanned and traced back to Fox?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 20, 2020, 08:39:51 AM
Nah, SM needs some Fox registered copyright or patent tattooed to him to be considered worthwhile by Turok. :-\
And the Newt thing never counts. It wasn't in the actual film. As interesting as deleted scenes are, they're never anything more than a curiosity unless they end up in some re-released version of the film.
Well sometimes it's all about the presentation. :)
And the Newt thing was more just a demonstrational tool that it is observational versus dictating, a timeline versus a bible, when it comes to the actual studio. But it obviously can be very helpful to Titan writers who aren't as knowledgeable as the most hardcore of fans of even their own sister product. :D
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 20, 2020, 09:29:29 AM
But can it be scanned and traced back to Fox?
Traced back to the mouse now.
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2020, 12:10:28 AM
It was only a fool's hope.
It sure was.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 20, 2020, 12:12:09 AM
It might have been just easier to show your link in regards to what you've been up to, i.e. helping with the Weyland-Yutani Report, and the Alien timeline you created now on Wordpress.
https://yutani.studio/2018/01/09/keeping-time/
https://alientimeline.wordpress.com
I think we're all already aware of his work and it doesn't really improve his position.
I think youre alone in your thinking TurokSwe
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 20, 2020, 08:39:51 AM
Nah, SM needs some Fox registered copyright or patent tattooed to him to be considered worthwhile by Turok. :-\
And the Newt thing never counts. It wasn't in the actual film. As interesting as deleted scenes are, they're never anything more than a curiosity unless they end up in some re-released version of the film.
Yeah, that seems about right, or at least provide some considerable evidence for his claims, which I figure would be tough. ^^ And you never know what might happen in the future, and regardless these deleted scenes are always very much noteworthy and relevant. I mean their mere existence makes a statement if anything.
Guy who works for/with Fox/Disney and has his name in the credits/thanks in books (maybe even some of the DVDs?) vs guy on the internet doggedly arguing his own fanon.
hmmmmm....
Quote from: 426Buddy on Mar 20, 2020, 12:33:05 PM
I think youre alone in your thinking TurokSwe
That's not the impression I've been given from all the people I've found supporting me over the years. Not to mention all those who came before me and inspired and motivated me.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 20, 2020, 12:37:17 PM
Guy who works for/with Fox/Disney and has his name in the credits/thanks in books (maybe even some of the DVDs?) vs guy on the internet doggedly arguing his own fanon.
hmmmmm....
But I'm not arguing my own fanon, I'm arguing from the evidence provided by Fox through their products, and SM's claims seems to be more fanon than my arguments, seeing as my arguments are at least consistent with Fox's products.
But you've not given any convincing "evidence."
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 20, 2020, 12:40:40 PM
But you've not given any convincing "evidence".
I'd beg to differ.
I beg to differ with your begging to differ.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 20, 2020, 12:42:20 PM
I beg to differ with your begging to differ.
Doesn't make any difference though.
I know it doesn't. You're still wrong. There is no unified grand Alien vs. Predator universe, nor has Fox had any intention of there being one over the last 6 years (at least).
And around the circle we go...
(https://i.redd.it/58sza6r3mjk21.jpg)