So few thing from the trailer. It seems Ridley didnt forget to play his old smart puzzle philosophy game.
Look at that painting behind David:
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Its a painting called Nativity - Adoration of the Child by Piero della Francesca.An oil painting from the 1470's that shows the birth of Jesus Christ. That figure of the shepherd is pointing to the sky! Fine Christmas reference from Ridley! Even the song Nature boy (cover by Aurora) starts with Davids eye and that scene with painting in the background. First verse: There was
a boy - referring to David, but Christ is a baby boy on that painting behind David. So... Ridley put that painting purposefully! Both Christ and David are strange and enchanted boys. We ll see what this parallel actually means.
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QuoteThis scene shows Mary kneeling in adoration before a newly-born Christ who is laid on her cloak (important symbols). Five angels sing welcoming his birth - two of them play lutes. Beside them a donkey appears to bray, while an Ox peers down solemnly at Christ.
Two shepherds are present (their faces have lost detail, possibly through over-zealous cleaning by previous owners). One of the shepherds points heavenwards, clutching his staff like a sceptre. Joseph is shown in deep contemplation, with his leg crossed over his knee.
Each person, angel and animal shows a different attitude of reverence towards the infant Christ. Even the magpie, well-known in Piero's native Tuscany for its constant chatter, seems changed and looks to be struck silent.
Piero has added other touches from his native region - Bethlehem itself has a distinctly Tuscan feel. The flat land on top of the hill where they stand evokes Tuscany, as does the winding valley to the left. Meanwhile the skyline on the right, dominated by the basilica, could almost be the outskirts of Piero's home town Borgo Sansepolcro.
The influences here come from further a field than Tuscany. The painting shows the impact of Northern European painting. Piero painted with tempera early in his career, but for later works like this one he began working in oil. Along with the use of brown under-painting for the figures, this shows a familiarity with Netherlandish and Flemish work. This is reinforced by the slim figure of Christ, who lacks the square muscularity of contemporary depictions from Italy, and is more reminiscent of paintings by artists like Hugo van der Goes.
Piero has also experimented with perspective. It is the only one of his works that shows a building askew from the rest of the composition: this is the simple shed, which reminds the viewer of Christ's humble beginnings. DAVID'S HUMBLE BEGINNINGS ;)
We ll analyse symbolism behind this painting and its meaning in the movie a bit later. Let us processed to the next hidden detail.
(https://i.imgur.com/t2Nfppa.png)
Even that chair David is sitting on is pretty filled with symbolic meaning.
That round circle back with black dot and those elongations.... :laugh: :laugh: Very smart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circled_dot
WHEAT ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/y8XEkcA.png)
Wheat scattered upon the ground symbolizes a wasted life/ future. Can also signify the menacing presence of persons who commit devilish deeds
Dictionary of symbolism.More coming soon :)
The nativity painting is very important IMO.
In prometheus, the crew said that about 2000 years ago was when the engineers had originally intended to travel to earth with the black goo in order to destroy it. The theory for the reason why the engineers wanted to destroy earth is because of the crucifixion/murder of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was the son of God - the engineers. Could the engineers have been planning an act of revenge against humanity for killing one of their greatest creations - a gift sent to the humans to bring great salvation and enlightenment? It's not really theory, though, as Scott has confirmed this as being fact but did not want to make is so obvious in the movie. In the Bible, it is a sin to create and worship false idols. I believe David is a false idol. The humans destroyed a god among men, and then created their own in David. That's probably why the Engineer in Prometheus attacked David. I believe David will be responsible for creating the xenomorph, proving that humans were wrong to worship a false idol who will ultimately create the instrument of their destruction.
I remember hearing about that. Seems a bit on the nose but as you say it wasn't really fleshed out much as an idea. Didn't the Engineers "engineer" their own demise though? Seems less Judeo-Christian and more Norse (IMO). Kind of an allusion to Ragnarok?
That's all pretty cool. I look forward to reading more. Ridley does have a fascination with religious symbolism in his films. Blade Runner is my favorite.
Quote from: rabidranger on Dec 30, 2016, 03:30:06 AM
I remember hearing about that. Seems a bit on the nose but as you say it wasn't really fleshed out much as an idea. Didn't the Engineers "engineer: their own demise though? Seems less Judeo-Christian and more Norse (IMO). Kind of an allusion to Ragnarok?
Ragnarok and Apocalypse have the same underlining meaning - destruction and then a reconstruction or rebirth. The black goo destroys life, but in the wake of that destruction, something new is created. ...perhaps the xenomorphs?
i REALLY hope those deeper questions and philosophical themes are still present in Covenant!!! Thats one HUGE reason why Prometheus is one of my favorite films ever!
Quote from: PLOTBURSTER on Dec 30, 2016, 03:47:17 AM
Quote from: rabidranger on Dec 30, 2016, 03:30:06 AM
I remember hearing about that. Seems a bit on the nose but as you say it wasn't really fleshed out much as an idea. Didn't the Engineers "engineer: their own demise though? Seems less Judeo-Christian and more Norse (IMO). Kind of an allusion to Ragnarok?
Ragnarok and Apocalypse have the same underlining meaning - destruction and then a reconstruction or rebirth. The black goo destroys life, but in the wake of that destruction, something new is created. ...perhaps the xenomorphs?
Someone (was it you?) had the thought that the objective of the Engineers carpet bombing earth with the black goo was the elimination of all life while preserving the planet itself. I do have this lingering idea though that what we think of as the xenomorph is the Engineers' "higher power" and that it's life cycle is part of their religion. Shoot, maybe the "God" of this story isn't the Engineers but some cthulhu like entity?
(https://i.imgur.com/b5thFNz.jpg)
Caves, wilderness, cloaks/robes,... playing gods,kings and masters.
Pretty similar if you ask me.
David is wearing that slim emerald green colored suit in Paradise, and white one back on Earth.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/44/f8/5f/44f85f7199b283c891d6e0a670de2f28.jpg)
Emerald green color
Satan's color, color of fertility and transformation. Satan wore emerald crown
and was represented as green-feathered serpent. Maybe Ridley wants to show
us somewhat different vision of God and Satan as one entity...
Also don't forget the Wetland/ Yutani patch!!
(https://images.moviepilot.com/images/c_limit,q_auto,w_710/j6m31l2dgqlsupii2i6c/it-looks-like-prometheus-2-is-going-to-use-religious-imagery-after-all-for-alien-covenant.jpg)
Features the Ark of the Covenant — the biblical wooden chest which held the stone tablets bearing the Ten Commandments. Clearly the Weyland Corp aren't giving up on their search for the gods, even after the untimely death of their CEO.
Whereas the Ark of the Covenant features angels holding their wings above the chest, the Covenant arm patch has them holding their arms protectively around a planet. Is this supposed to represent Earth, or the Engineer's homeworld, the dark paradise?
Does this mean the crew of the ship Covenant are going to pick up Shaw's mantle and discover the Engineer's version of the Ark?
Yes, that patch is full of symbolism...
Prometheus one was also full of hidden clues.
A bit different interpretation of the Ark of Covenant:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZzEMb5J.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7kPTjZ8.jpg)
Quote... Here is the esoteric meaning of the Ark of the Covenant.
First of all it is important to realize that Moses never constructed a golden box known as the Ark, and he didn't converse with a separate omnipotent being above the Mercy seat. Rather these components of the Exodus narrative describe something that happens in your head on the way to your own Promised Land.
The true Ark of the Covenant rests atop your shoulders. More specifically, the Ark represents your brain. Even as Jesus was crucified at Golgotha (the place of the skull), representing part of the ascension process that takes place in your head, so too does the Ark. And in order to truly commune with God, that communion must take place within the confines of your mind. As we'll soon see, communing with God has nothing to do with talking with a separate being. It has much more to do with becoming ONE with something much bigger than you!
As Jesus said stated:
"that all of them may be one , Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us..." (John 17:21).
How could the church preach the above verse any way but metaphysical?
Now let's break down the image of the Ark. Two Cherubim's faced each other on top of the lid. But what's significant here is that the wings of the Cherubim are spread over the ark, covering and protecting what lies beneath. There is one on the left and one on the right. Now consider that your brain is made up of a left and right hemisphere. The covering of your brain is the cerebrum. So just as the Cherubim covered something significant inside the ark (the brain) so too does the left and right cerebrum cover some very important glands that serve as a link between our physical and spiritual natures. One such component is the pineal gland, also known as the third eye.
This is what Jesus referenced when he stated:
"The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light" (Matt. 6:22).
And the opening shoot of Davids scene in Alien COVENANT is:
(https://i.imgur.com/Qem0Gt3.jpg)
QuoteAs if the above information wasn't enough, I am now going to give you plain scriptural information that will confirm that the ark is symbolic of the human brain. Consider that the stone tablets making up the Ten Commandments were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant. Now remember that the ark symbolizes the mind and brain.
The Ten Commandments are universal in nature. When one becomes enlightened, the Ten Commandments are realized and lived out from within. This is especially true after the awakening of the third eye, or pineal gland. Now consider the scripture below from Jeremiah:
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write in on their hearts" (Jeremiah 31:31)
The prophet Jeremiah is declaring that the law is meant to be in the mind and heart permanently, not something which should be obeyed from an external law book or outward code. This is about something that happens "within" you. Let's also read the very next verse:
"No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me..." (Jeremiah 31:34).
Someone who has experienced enlightenment no longer serves the ego. The law was written for the ego, but the spiritual man who is not under the operation of the ego lives by grace (enlightenment / Christ consciousness.)
This is the entire reason the Ten Commandments were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant; it was to serve as a symbolic image of what was to truly be experienced by a true Israelite (spiritually enlightened person).
Let me take you back to the image of the Cherubim for a moment. Have you ever wondered why God placed Cherubim to the entrance of the Garden of Eden to protect it? If you have read my article on how Adam and Eve represent different aspects of consciousness, then you understand that the Garden of Eden wasn't a literal place either. It's a state of the mind. Since the cerebrum serves as a covering for the spiritual glands located underneath their covering, then it makes sense that God would place Cherubim to guard the entrance to Eden. In order for us to get back to Eden, we have to be awakened! We should also note that the Cherubim held a flaming sword. This fiery sword represents the logos, or cosmic energy that is responsible for awakening the third eye! Full article at: http://www.spiritofthescripture.com/id790-the-true-meaning-of-the-ark-of-the-covenant.html (http://www.spiritofthescripture.com/id790-the-true-meaning-of-the-ark-of-the-covenant.html)
Quote"The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.."
― John Milton, Paradise Lost
At the end...
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Great article about this: http://www.gnosisperth.com/2016/06/06/deciphering-michelangelos-creation-of-adam/ (http://www.gnosisperth.com/2016/06/06/deciphering-michelangelos-creation-of-adam/)
The mind is everything.
Nicely done Enoch (especially the painting stuff!) but you went too far with the symbolism of cloak. Sorry, but it's just a cloak :).
No... its an Engineer cloak, so, mind whats you are saying.
There is a symbolism there and its obvious. There is even a symbolism
regarding his clothing - emerald suit and white suit.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 30, 2016, 04:29:53 PM
No... its an Engineer cloak, so, mind whats you are saying.
I know it's an Engineer cloak and I know what I'm saying Enoch :) David wears it because of the weather. In this scene he's without it.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Alien-Covenant-Teaser-Trailer-084.jpg)
On the other hand David wearing Engineer cloak says that
created became creator.
You have to be careful with symbolism because its interpretation might turn your mind into wishful thinking. Sometimes people see what they want to see. t's matter of perception but you might cross the line of rationality and see "hidden" messages everywhere.
What would you say about those mountains? How would you interpret them? I would say: it's an amazing view :). That's all.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Alien-Covenant-Teaser-Trailer-029.jpg)
the back wall reminds me of the image screen that Vickers had in her quarters in Prometheus.
No harm done however we interpret movie details, Ingwar ;)
Cloak is for the weather obviously, but at the same time it could bear a lot
of symbolical meanings... Cloak is a disguise, to dissimulate evil and may be worn by Satan.
So that interpretation is not wrong at all considering what we know about David. ;)
You can see how carefully the colors are picked, first that slim white outfit and then that emerald green.
Enoch, your observations are lending credence to my idea that the scene being referred to above is infact a dream sequence. white is color associated with innocence, being untouched, cleanliness and divinity. That entire scene really looks like David may just be dreaming about his "father" Weyland and he is the "boy" (innocence in white).
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 30, 2016, 07:19:50 PM
No harm done however we interpret movie details, Ingwar ;)
Cloak is for the weather obviously, but at the same time it could bear a lot
of symbolical meanings... Cloak is a disguise, to dissimulate evil and may be worn by Satan.
Satan? Cloaks are worn by monks and priests. Jesus and disciples wore cloaks. It doesn't proof anything.
Doesn't David have long hair in certain parts of the movie? Kind of reminds me of an angel.
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Even though in other scenes it's obvious it's shorter.
Yes, David has a longer hair during that cloak/hood scene from the trailer.
Its probably at the very beginning of the movie. He changed his hair after
that.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 30, 2016, 08:15:39 PM
Yes, David has a longer hair during that cloak/hood scene from the trailer.
Its probably at the very beginning of the movie. He changed his hair after
that.
Can synthetic grow hair? :)
Ask Michael Fassbender or Ridley.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 30, 2016, 08:27:09 PM
Ask Michael Fassbender or Ridley.
I wish I could.
Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 30, 2016, 08:25:16 PM
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 30, 2016, 08:15:39 PM
Yes, David has a longer hair during that cloak/hood scene from the trailer.
Its probably at the very beginning of the movie. He changed his hair after
that.
Can synthetic grow hair? :)
That's a good point. None of the synthetics have had long hair. At least in the movies.
But I don't see why not. Maybe that's something the company built into their systems to make them more life like.
If the dude eats and highlights his hair regularly to maintain the color then I'm pretty certain that hair of his is real. I mean how could it be possible that a society that achieves FTL, curing 98% of cancer and the putting of cats in space be unable to have cured balding? There's state of the art tech at work here . :P
Oh and Ridley will totally hit it on the nose with religion this time. How do I know this? Cause that was what he wanted to do in Prometheus before being talked out of it.
I'd love to see this video done with David's creepy voice. :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NylTt9m7U8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NylTt9m7U8)
obviously Davids hair grows... he was bleaching his roots in Prometheus ;)
Speaking about philosophy and undertones in Covenant, we completely forgot to
discuss the possible meaning of Covenant/ Ark of Covenant in this Alien movie, especially
now when we have more knowledge about the overall story.
Is this Covenant in fact an alliance between David and Xenomporhs... How to connect
the whole hidden story of Covenant with that of Prometheus? There is obviously hidden
story about Satan/Prometheus/God and the fall of Humans in this movies...
ECLIPSE
(https://i.imgur.com/lCax4Nc.jpg)
(https://hollywoodsubliminals.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/prometheus-2012-666.jpg)
If the Engineers from the Prometheus (not those from the beginning) are
the bad guys... what the hell happened to them before they left for Earth?
There are some bursted bodies on LV-223 and yet, the goo alone can not cause that.
so they must have been infected/impregnated in some other way.
Scene before the planet/ship/eclipse shoot.
(https://i.imgur.com/LyxhdYx.jpg)
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Quote"The most primitive and fundamental of all symbols is the dot." — Manly P. Hall; Lectures on Ancient Philosophycircumpunct
The ancient symbol known as the dot in the circle, circled dot, circle with a point, or a circumpunct, is one of the oldest symbols known to humans.
According to Gnostics, it is the most primal aspect of God. To Greek philosophers and the Pythagoreans, the circumpunct represents God, or the Monad - the point of the beginning of creation, and eternity. It is the sun of astrologers and astronomers; the alchemical gold of the alchemist, and the Keter of the Kabbalah.
The circle around the dot is the universe or world in which we live. A blank canvas to draw from the circle that which we wish to create. A place to also retreat back from the world when things in life get too chaotic. Erase our problems in 'order' to have a clean slate. In a sense, redeeem our souls.
As you can see, the circumpunct is a symbol that can help evolve our souls to become truly illuminated. An enlightened soul who is "I AM."
More at: http://gnosticwarrior.com/circumpunct.html (http://gnosticwarrior.com/circumpunct.html)