Do you think a King Alien is something we should see in future Alien films?
Or do you think that a King would be too much like a Queen?
Nope, hate the whole concept. King, Queen, whatever. Eggmorphing was the more horrifying way of reproduction and it should return.
Quote from: genocyber on Jun 06, 2016, 04:23:23 PM
Do you think a King Alien is something we should see in future Alien films?
Or do you think that a King would be too much like a Queen?
You mean the Jurassic World philosophy?
It belongs in the garbage bin along with the empress (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Empress) and queen mother (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Queen_Mother). I also could do without praetorians (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Praetorian) and all the other needless variations of the basic adult solider unless said variations are due to the host they birthed from.
I like the William Gibson 2.0 script for Alien 3 because of how the unaltered alien treated the hybrid. :)
I could do without an actual dedicated "Alien King". I liked the way the EU handled it because it made it clear that it was a genetically-engineered, man-made monstrosity and not naturally-occurring, and that Alien hives don't tolerate that shit and try to kill it on sight. :P
I'm pretty okay with higher Queens and Praetorians, though.
I don't see how a king could "naturally" work. The Queen reproduces without a mate and she already has warriors, drones, and other such so a king would serve no purpose.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 06, 2016, 07:44:35 PMI could do without an actual dedicated "Alien King". I liked the way the EU handled it because it made it clear that it was a genetically-engineered, man-made monstrosity and not naturally-occurring, and that Alien hives don't tolerate that shit and try to kill it on sight. :P
So it really is the Alien version of an Indominus Rex? :laugh:
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 06, 2016, 07:44:35 PMI'm pretty okay with higher Queens and Praetorians, though.
Is there any EU concept that isn't so terrible that even you would reject it? Seriously.
Quote
So it really is the Alien version of an Indominus Rex?
The "Rogue" in the old EU? Yeah, pretty much.
I will say that Sideshow's "Alien King" statue is visually interesting, even if I don't care for the concept that much.
QuoteIs there any EU concept that isn't so terrible that even you would reject it? Seriously.
I wasn't a big fan of the super-mutating Royal Jelly stuff in the Colonial Marines comic series, and then 'Prometheus' happened (and then Fire and Stone happened) and pretty much made it "canon" via the Black Goo, soooo here we are. :P
I think one of the 'Predators' sequel comics had a four-armed Predator for some reason? That was some wacky shit.
But there really isn't anything I've outright "rejected". I'm pretty tolerant of the Alien series having goofy shit I sometimes don't like, because there's a little something for everybody and if anything it's more "realistic" - real life is chock-full of distasteful stuff people don't like or doesn't make sense or is just plain stupid, so I don't mind when it happens in fiction. I'd much rather have authors and artists take chances and risk a swing-and-a-miss but still be creative, rather than "playing it safe" and letting things get stale.
I should re-read the older EU stuff and see if my tastes have changed, because there's a ton of it that I haven't read in years and I'm possibly basing my opinions on a rose-tinted memory from the last time I read it or whatever.
No to the King but I'd be fine with a few more variations of Alien. Perhaps those Praetorians or albino aliens Cameron had in mind for Aliens.
I thought Cameron wanted little tiny 'worker bee' aliens played by children or midgets. ??
Quote from: Gash on Jun 07, 2016, 06:39:32 AM
I thought Cameron wanted little tiny 'worker bee' aliens played by children or midgets. ??
I, uh... thought they were a little smaller but not that small.
The albino drones always seemed like a waste of a host to me.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 06, 2016, 07:44:35 PM
I'm pretty okay with higher Queens and Praetorians, though.
Does anyone know if SM ever approved/ratified the higher Queens and Praetorians? In other words, are they considered canonical?
I'm pretty sure Aliens Defiance is in-canon for the moment and they are doing Praetorians and eggmorphing.
I'm going to guess that fox considers them canon at least for the time being.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 08, 2016, 02:05:44 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 06, 2016, 07:44:35 PM
I'm pretty okay with higher Queens and Praetorians, though.
Does anyone know if SM ever approved/ratified the higher Queens and Praetorians? In other words, are they considered canonical?
Too bad this message board doesn't support "mentions" so we can bat signal SM whenever we need him to make a definitive ruling in a thread.
@SM
I PM'd SM to let him know that you guys need him, no need to thank me :)
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 08, 2016, 02:12:57 PM
I'm pretty sure Aliens Defiance is in-canon for the moment and they are doing Praetorians and eggmorphing.
I'm going to guess that fox considers them canon at least for the time being.
I've always been ok with eggmorphing (and the normal Queen) since we can safely consider anything that appears in the films as canon. But the Praetorians and Higher Queens have always sounded a bit iffy to me. Also, I'm a bit wary with what Fox considers canon though, didn't they consider Aliens: Colonial Marines as canon at one point?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 08, 2016, 02:23:07 PM
[Too bad this message board doesn't support "mentions" so we can bat signal SM whenever we need him to make a definitive ruling in a thread.
@SM
If I remember correctly, Xenomrph had the honour of working with SM on a project in the past. Maybe he would know SM's professional opinion on the matter?
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 08, 2016, 02:31:46 PM
I PM'd SM to let him know that you guys need him, no need to thank me :)
Now, that's just rude Buddy! Shame on you!
Well with this franchise being under Fox's control, canon has been and is fluid and ever changing. What is canon today probably won't be this time next year.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 08, 2016, 02:47:16 PMIf I remember correctly, Xenomrph had the honour of working with SM on a project in the past. Maybe he would know SM's professional opinion on the matter?
Perhaps they're both hard at work collaborating on the Grand Unification Project to merge all the Alien EU seamlessly with the canon and don't have time for our silliness.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 08, 2016, 02:50:03 PM
Well with this franchise being under Fox's control, canon has been and is fluid and ever changing. What is canon today probably won't be this time next year.
This. As it stands, Defiance is currently canon so we have our Praetorian-ish, kinda Alien. And we'll get our eggmorphing when that issue hits the stands. but it all just change.
Ugh. So what does this new Praetorian look like?
Posted a pic, turns out it isnt the Praetorian lol just a pic Tristan did of the spitter in ACM
Aliens: Defiance has been excellent so far... I highly recommend picking up the first 2 issues if anyone is interested.
Fugly.
The Sideshow figure is pretty cool but pure fanfiction.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.toyark.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F4%2F2016%2F05%2FAlien-King-Maquette-Sideshow-003.jpg&hash=1f29818b641a9a5de2e0a432e5c19e0cc428eedf)
I am not a fan of this, or the predalien or indeed other variations of the Xeno based on the host, or the Queen facehugger, eggmorphing, or the queen mother, or the albino alien.
Queen > Egg > Facehugger > Host > Chestburster > Xeno is enough of a life cycle for me.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 08, 2016, 02:05:44 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 06, 2016, 07:44:35 PM
I'm pretty okay with higher Queens and Praetorians, though.
Does anyone know if SM ever approved/ratified the higher Queens and Praetorians? In other words, are they considered canonical?
You could message SM and ask him. :P
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 08, 2016, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 08, 2016, 02:05:44 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 06, 2016, 07:44:35 PM
I'm pretty okay with higher Queens and Praetorians, though.
Does anyone know if SM ever approved/ratified the higher Queens and Praetorians? In other words, are they considered canonical?
Too bad this message board doesn't support "mentions" so we can bat signal SM whenever we need him to make a definitive ruling in a thread.
@SM
I haven't seen that feature on many boards, to be honest.
I'm not so sure about "definitive rulings", though. An opinion, sure. ;)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 08, 2016, 02:02:53 PM
The albino drones always seemed like a waste of a host to me.
For some reason in my head I always pictured the albino drones as being akin to those dog-sized red-and-black beetles from 'Starship Troopers' that you see carrying around the Brain Bug, to the point that they didn't even look like xenomorphs in the conventional sense. NECA's upcoming action figure really caught me off guard because it's not what I pictured in my head at all.
QuoteAlso, I'm a bit wary with what Fox considers canon though, didn't they consider Aliens: Colonial Marines as canon at one point?
They did, and they considered the old EU to be canon (and apparently still consider parts of it to be canon). If you don't like what FOX considers canon, just do what everyone does and decide for yourself. :)
QuoteIf I remember correctly, Xenomrph had the honour of working with SM on a project in the past.
We worked on an EU timeline over a decade ago.
QuotePerhaps they're both hard at work collaborating on the Grand Unification Project to merge all the Alien EU seamlessly with the canon and don't have time for our silliness.
I'd be fine with working with SM again, but I doubt the feeling is mutual. :P
I also doubt he'd support a Grand Unification Project anyway, he's been pretty against it in the past. I've been championing that idea for years (and making it work through "fuzzy continuity").
QuoteI am not a fan of this, or the predalien or indeed other variations of the Xeno based on the host
How do you feel about 'Alien3'?
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 08, 2016, 02:05:44 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 06, 2016, 07:44:35 PM
I'm pretty okay with higher Queens and Praetorians, though.
Does anyone know if SM ever approved/ratified the higher Queens and Praetorians? In other words, are they considered canonical?
I don't have any authority to ratify anything - just suggest and advise. And, no.
Unless one defines a Praetorian as an adolescent Queen (and not the more common definition of 'royal guard'). To the extent of my knowledge, the thing in Defiance #2 was a young Queen. Tristan would obviously know more than me since he drew it.
Quote from: SM on Jun 08, 2016, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 08, 2016, 02:05:44 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 06, 2016, 07:44:35 PM
I'm pretty okay with higher Queens and Praetorians, though.
Does anyone know if SM ever approved/ratified the higher Queens and Praetorians? In other words, are they considered canonical?
I don't have any authority to ratify anything - just suggest and advise. And, no.
Unless one defines a Praetorian as an adolescent Queen (and not a the more common definition of 'royal guard'). To the extent of my knowledge, the thing in Defiance was #2 a young Queen. Tristan would obviously know more than me since he drew it.
He posts on this board on occasion, doesn't he? I haven't been reading Defiance (I have neither the money nor space to buy comics in single issues that I know I'm going to get in collected volumes later) but I remember someone mentioning in the Defiance thread that a Praetorian was featured in the Free Comic Book Day story.
The "young queen" and "royal guard" ideas aren't entirely incompatible - older EU sources sometimes depicted Praetorians as both anyway.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 08, 2016, 10:18:57 PM
I'd be fine with working with SM again, but I doubt the feeling is mutual. :P
I also doubt he'd support a Grand Unification Project anyway, he's been pretty against it in the past. I've been championing that idea for years (and making it work through "fuzzy continuity").
How does fizzy continuity work?
Quote from: SM on Jun 08, 2016, 10:29:50 PM
I don't have any authority to ratify anything - just suggest and advise. And, no.
Still as pathologically modest as Nelson Bighetti (https://twitter.com/siliconvallism/status/621401095127101440).
We don't necessarily know "the truth", we know approximations of it with varying degrees of certainty. Think of it like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, Schroedinger's Cat, or quantum superposition - it allows seemingly contradictory information to coexist because elements of both may be true, even if they're seemingly mutually exclusive. Every source adds to a more complete picture of "the truth" even if certain details are seemingly contradictory.
A practical example:
How do you feel about the multiple versions of each of the Alien movies?
I love the look of the Alien King, the design and detailing is perfect.
Don't need it in my movies though. The Queen is still top of the bill as far as I'm concerned.
Quote
How do you feel about 'Alien3'?
I like it as a movie, but The Runner opened the floodgates for the idea that the alien changed with the host, and we get the Kenner toy line and designs which, in my opinion anyway, don't stand up to the original. I thought an interesting thing was the human skull at the front of the head in the original, like an echo of it's 'parent.' I've often thought what it might look like if there was a dog's skull visible at the front and so on, but that might look a bit crap.
Alien 3 is a film I appreciate more with every watch, but a lot of that is knowing that it is Ripley's requiem, and the hell Fincher had to go through.
Oh God please no. The only way I could see a "King Alien" working is some psychopathic corporate businessman or politician wants to play god so he decides to inject himself with the Hivemother's Royal Jelly and it begins to mutate him - slowly and painfully - into a human/alien hybrid.
I'd prefer him look more human than Alien, however. Basically superhuman, the maniac basically becomes an uber-version of Ripley 8 on steroids.
It'd be cool if he was a 'Patrick Bateman' type character (maybe even played by him), his skin could turn gray, his hands and feet turn into talons, and his teeth elongate, so he has the trademark 'Alien smile'... but other than that he looks human and can control the Aliens or something.
....but beyond that, no 'King Alien'. The idea is so corny. Hell, even my idea is kind of corny.
Quote from: SM on Jun 08, 2016, 10:29:50 PM
I don't have any authority to ratify anything - just suggest and advise.
We know, but you've probably already forgotten more about the Alien franchise than most members on here will ever know. Or Fox for that matter.
That makes you the go-to guy. :P
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 08, 2016, 10:38:47 PM
He posts on this board on occasion, doesn't he?
Yes, his user name is
tyrannosaurusjones
Quote from: Bughunter S. Thomson on Jun 09, 2016, 02:33:09 PM
Quote
How do you feel about 'Alien3'?
I like it as a movie, but The Runner opened the floodgates for the idea that the alien changed with the host,
To be fair, the idea that the host influences the Alien is an idea that was present in the filmmakers' minds dating back to 'Alien' - both Ridley Scott and James Cameron talked about it in interviews (and both used the hypothetical example of the Alien popping out of Jones). Alien3 was just the first time we saw it explicitly shown to the audience, since it was the first time the Alien had come from a non-human host.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 09, 2016, 03:22:28 PM
Quote from: Bughunter S. Thomson on Jun 09, 2016, 02:33:09 PM
Quote
How do you feel about 'Alien3'?
I like it as a movie, but The Runner opened the floodgates for the idea that the alien changed with the host,
To be fair, the idea that the host influences the Alien is an idea that was present in the filmmakers' minds dating back to 'Alien' - both Ridley Scott and James Cameron talked about it in interviews (and both used the hypothetical example of the Alien popping out of Jones). Alien3 was just the first time we saw it explicitly shown to the audience, since it was the first time the Alien had come from a non-human host.
I did not know that. Huh.
It introduces some interesting thematic elements when you think about it: if the dog-alien acted "feral" and "dog like" because it came from a dog, what does it say about humans when the human-born Big Chap in 'Alien' is a literal sexual predator and potentially rapes Lambert to death?
The families of Hadleys Hope made one big family :D
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 08, 2016, 11:17:34 PM
We don't necessarily know "the truth", we know approximations of it with varying degrees of certainty. Think of it like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, Schroedinger's Cat, or quantum superposition - it allows seemingly contradictory information to coexist because elements of both may be true, even if they're seemingly mutually exclusive. Every source adds to a more complete picture of "the truth" even if certain details are seemingly contradictory.
A practical example:
How do you feel about the multiple versions of each of the Alien movies?
I think they're confusing. They make my head hurt. I guess I lack the capacity for doublethink.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 09, 2016, 03:22:28 PM
To be fair, the idea that the host influences the Alien is an idea that was present in the filmmakers' minds dating back to 'Alien' - both Ridley Scott and James Cameron talked about it in interviews (and both used the hypothetical example of the Alien popping out of Jones). Alien3 was just the first time we saw it explicitly shown to the audience, since it was the first time the Alien had come from a non-human host.
If the runner had been designed according to Ridley's intentions, it should have had an elongated snout like a dog. I'm actually glad it didn't because the head is the most iconic aspect of the alien and should remain as close to the original design as possible. ADI and their "refinements" be damned.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 09, 2016, 04:13:32 PM
It introduces some interesting thematic elements when you think about it: if the dog-alien acted "feral" and "dog like" because it came from a dog, what does it say about humans when the human-born Big Chap in 'Alien' is a literal sexual predator and potentially rapes Lambert to death?
It says that without the trappings of morality and civilization to restrain it, the alien is just as shockingly inhumane to us as we are to each other. Then again, the intelligence level of the host
shouldn't determine the alien's or cause it to act counter to its instincts because that would undermine its ability to reproduce. That's why it was stupid for Fincher to decide that the runner killed simply to eat.
Personally I had the idea that any drone alien could become a xenomorph if they were to live for a long enough time. An evolution if you will.
Quote from: genocyber on Jun 10, 2016, 12:39:59 AM
Personally I had the idea that any drone alien could become a xenomorph if they were to live for a long enough time. An evolution if you will.
Conversely, I think it's more likely that a xenomorph could become a drone alien.
QuoteI think they're confusing. They make my head hurt. I guess I lack the capacity for doublethink.
How is it doublethink?
And you see my point with multiple versions of the movies, I take it? Like, we don't even have to stray into the EU to have practical applications of "fuzzy continuity". :)
Another example that's slightly more EU-centric would be expanding the scope of 'Alien' to include both versions of the films, the script, the Illustrated Story adaptation, and the novelization. Nominally all of those things are depicting the same characters and series of events, even if they slightly differ on the finer details.
QuoteI'm actually glad it didn't because the head is the most iconic aspect of the alien and should remain as close to the original design as possible. ADI and their "refinements" be damned.
I agree for the most part. I'm okay with changes as long as the general shape is still present. I think the idea that the Alien doesn't necessarily have One True Form is an interesting one.
QuoteIt says that without the trappings of morality and civilization to restrain it, the alien is just as shockingly inhumane to us as we are to each other.
Pretty much, yeah. :)
QuoteThen again, the intelligence level of the host shouldn't determine the alien's or cause it to act counter to its instincts because that would undermine its ability to reproduce. That's why it was stupid for Fincher to decide that the runner killed simply to eat.
What if the instinct was to protect the still-unborn Queen? That would lead directly to reproduction.
I mean yeah I get that the obvious answer is "why didn't the Runner just immobilize everyone for future implantation, that's more productive than a killing spree", but I'm willing to chalk it up to "literal alien intelligence we can't fathom". :P
A slight tangent, but the idea of Aliens taking host species' behaviors came up with regard to the Predalien in AvP Requiem, specifically the semi-deleted shots showing that the Predalien had skinned some of the Predators on the crashed ship. People pointed out that it seemed like a bizarre thing for the Predalien to do because it's not an instinctual behavior, but I considered the idea, "what if it IS instinctual?" I mean we even see the Wolf Predator do it when it might not be intellectually advantageous to do so, but if it's an instinctual thing that Predators just do as a callback to some kind of survival mechanism from when they were less evolved, then it makes a lot more sense. Like, by definition that's what instinct is. And if skinning victims is an instinctive behavior, and Aliens pick up instinctive behavioral traits, then suddenly it makes sense that the Predalien would do it.
I can totally get why people might not like having the Alien be influenced by host instincts, that it could "dilute" the Alien's behavior, but I personally think it makes them more interesting. Ash's line about "unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality" isn't saying the Alien is doing what *IT* wants to do without restraint, it's saying that the Alien acts as a dark mirror where it does what *YOU* want to do without restraint, even if you're unwilling to admit it or even recognize it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 10, 2016, 07:33:16 AM
QuoteI think they're confusing. They make my head hurt. I guess I lack the capacity for doublethink.
How is it doublethink?
How is it
not? The runner either came from an ox or a dog. You can't have it both ways without resorting to doublethink.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 10, 2016, 07:33:16 AM
What if the instinct was to protect the still-unborn Queen? That would lead directly to reproduction.
Then why didn't it capture Ripley immediately after discovering that she was carrying a queen embryo and cocoon her until she popped? Moreover, it's counter-productive to kill the only organisms on the planet that could serve as hosts for the queen's eggs.
If they wanted to emphasize that the runner was protecting the queen, I always thought it would have been cool to see it show up during the gang rape scene and slaughter Ripley's attackers. Imagine seeing the alien as an unintentional anti-hero.
QuoteHow is it not? The runner either came from an ox or a dog. You can't have it both ways without resorting to doublethink.
Not necessarily, which is where fuzzy continuity comes into play. Did it come from an ox or a dog? We don't know, and we have ample evidence to believe either scenario despite being mutually exclusive, so the answer becomes "both". Is visible light a particle or a wave? Depending on how you're observing it, it can be one or the other despite those two things being mutually exclusive, so it ends up being both. Is Schroedinger's cat alive or dead? Until you observe it, the answer is "both".
"Fuzzy continuity" is just a philosophy for looking at fiction and worldbuilding - there's actually a couple franchises that officially ascribe to it. When asked about contradictions in Warhammer40k lore, Games Workshop basically said, "all sources are true, but not all sources are necessarily equally reliable, and we're not saying which are which. That's up to the individual reader to decide for themselves."
The main takeaway being that "strict continuity" is less important than 'interesting storytelling".
Incidentally it's also the way theologists explain contradictions in religious texts (you know, where the very concept of "canon" comes from :P) - it's more important to pay attention to the individual stories and their messages than it is to fixate on whether everything fits together perfectly during a line-by-line analysis.
And at the end of the day it's all fiction anyway. :P
QuoteThen why didn't it capture Ripley immediately after discovering that she was carrying a queen embryo and cocoon her until she popped? Moreover, it's counter-productive to kill the only organisms on the planet that could serve as hosts for the queen's eggs.
Like I said, I'd handwave it as "unpredictable, unfathomable alien intelligence". The Alien has been doing wacky stuff like that since 'Alien'; the Alien being unknowable and weird is one of the core tenets in the first movie, which is part of what makes it unpredictable and scary. From a storytelling perspective, it's why the Alien took out Parker and Lambert simultaneously when 'logic" said it should have gone after Ripley.
So when the Alien does stuff that doesn't "make sense" to human logic, I'm pretty forgiving of it.
QuoteIf they wanted to emphasize that the runner was protecting the queen, I always thought it would have been cool to see it show up during the gang rape scene and slaughter Ripley's attackers. Imagine seeing the alien as an unintentional anti-hero.
While I agree that would have been cool, it would have only worked if they reshuffled the order of events pretty significantly. When Ripley gets attacked by the inmates, she isn't even sure there's an Alien around yet. You'd almost have to use that scenario as the Alien's big reveal, because if you save it for after Ripley and the inmates know there's an Alien running around killing people, do you really think the prisoners are going to take the time to casually rape Ripley when there's an 8-foot-tall murder monster on the loose? :P And if you use it as the Alien's big reveal, it might be difficult to not tip the audience off too early that Ripley is carrying a Queen.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 11, 2016, 01:24:11 AMNot necessarily, which is where fuzzy continuity comes into play. Did it come from an ox or a dog? We don't know, and we have ample evidence to believe either scenario despite being mutually exclusive, so the answer becomes "both". Is visible light a particle or a wave? Depending on how you're observing it, it can be one or the other despite those two things being mutually exclusive, so it ends up being both. Is Schroedinger's cat alive or dead? Until you observe it, the answer is "both".
I think I would hate that since I tend to prefer straight answers, especially in fiction.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 11, 2016, 01:24:11 AMLike I said, I'd handwave it as "unpredictable, unfathomable alien intelligence". The Alien has been doing wacky stuff like that since 'Alien'; the Alien being unknowable and weird is one of the core tenets in the first movie, which is part of what makes it unpredictable and scary. From a storytelling perspective, it's why the Alien took out Parker and Lambert simultaneously when 'logic" said it should have gone after Ripley.
Why would that have been more logical?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 11, 2016, 01:24:11 AMWhile I agree that would have been cool, it would have only worked if they reshuffled the order of events pretty significantly. When Ripley gets attacked by the inmates, she isn't even sure there's an Alien around yet. You'd almost have to use that scenario as the Alien's big reveal, because if you save it for after Ripley and the inmates know there's an Alien running around killing people, do you really think the prisoners are going to take the time to casually rape Ripley when there's an 8-foot-tall murder monster on the loose? :P And if you use it as the Alien's big reveal, it might be difficult to not tip the audience off too early that Ripley is carrying a Queen.
When it comes to Alien 3, I have no problem with reshuffling events if it resulted in a more interesting movie. As it is, Alien 3 might be nice to look at, but it's so boring and devoid of suspense that it shouldn't even be considered horror.
QuoteI think I would hate that since I tend to prefer straight answers, especially in fiction.
Fair enough. :)
QuoteWhy would that have been more logical?
You mean attacking Ripley instead of Lambert/Parker? Attacking solitary targets is safer and easier, and seemed to be the Alien's "modus operandi" up to that point (Brett, then Dallas). From a storytelling perspective, the audience is supposed to assume Ripley is going to get picked off next given the pattern, and then the Alien does the unexpected and goes for Parker and Lambert at the same time.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 11, 2016, 03:14:46 AMYou mean attacking Ripley instead of Lambert/Parker? Attacking solitary targets is safer and easier, and seemed to be the Alien's "modus operandi" up to that point (Brett, then Dallas). From a storytelling perspective, the audience is supposed to assume Ripley is going to get picked off next given the pattern, and then the Alien does the unexpected and goes for Parker and Lambert at the same time.
Well, in the alien's defense, Brett and Dallas stumbled into
its personal space. And Lambert was making one hell of a racket with all those metal canisters.
In fact, the alien wasn't really all that aggressive in the first movie. At least, no more so than a bear defending its cave.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 10, 2016, 12:46:35 AM
Quote from: genocyber on Jun 10, 2016, 12:39:59 AM
Personally I had the idea that any drone alien could become a xenomorph if they were to live for a long enough time. An evolution if you will.
Conversely, I think it's more likely that a xenomorph could become a drone alien.
Er, I meant to say any drone alien could become a King Alien. Sorry.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 11, 2016, 09:57:28 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 11, 2016, 03:14:46 AMYou mean attacking Ripley instead of Lambert/Parker? Attacking solitary targets is safer and easier, and seemed to be the Alien's "modus operandi" up to that point (Brett, then Dallas). From a storytelling perspective, the audience is supposed to assume Ripley is going to get picked off next given the pattern, and then the Alien does the unexpected and goes for Parker and Lambert at the same time.
Well, in the alien's defense, Brett and Dallas stumbled into its personal space. And Lambert was making one hell of a racket with all those metal canisters.
In fact, the alien wasn't really all that aggressive in the first movie. At least, no more so than a bear defending its cave.
I don't disagree with any of that, there's certainly ways to rationalize the Alien's behavior if you want. But it could be argued that you can rationalize the Alien's behavior in any of the movies (or any source, really) if you want to. I'd argue that doing so kind of misses the point, though.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 11, 2016, 09:57:28 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jun 11, 2016, 03:14:46 AMYou mean attacking Ripley instead of Lambert/Parker? Attacking solitary targets is safer and easier, and seemed to be the Alien's "modus operandi" up to that point (Brett, then Dallas). From a storytelling perspective, the audience is supposed to assume Ripley is going to get picked off next given the pattern, and then the Alien does the unexpected and goes for Parker and Lambert at the same time.
Well, in the alien's defense, Brett and Dallas stumbled into its personal space. And Lambert was making one hell of a racket with all those metal canisters.
In fact, the alien wasn't really all that aggressive in the first movie. At least, no more so than a bear defending its cave.
I definitely agree with that, especially considering the fact that the alien was suppose to get fascinated with flashing light, like a bug. He was presented as an animal/insect, young, confused and out of his environment according to some sources, not a hunter, so what we see on screen (or dont, when it comes to alien hunting or picking up the crew) supports that
I think the fact that Jones is untouched after being up close and personal with the Alien shows it had an agenda as opposed to indiscriminate killing.
The scene in Alien 3 where you see the Runner feeding off a fresh kill really surprised me. In my mind it only bit to kill. I never thought of them needing sustinence. Which is a bit stupid of me actually.
There's no real indication that he's chewing to eat though. Dogs chew on things as a form of 'play.'
Quote from: Bughunter S. Thomson on Jun 15, 2016, 11:24:23 AM
I think the fact that Jones is untouched after being up close and personal with the Alien shows it had an agenda as opposed to indiscriminate killing.
The scene in Alien 3 where you see the Runner feeding off a fresh kill really surprised me. In my mind it only bit to kill. I never thought of them needing sustinence. Which is a bit stupid of me actually.
They are still animals though. Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusette specifically mention in the
Alien Evolution documentary that they intended for the creature to be an animal.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 26, 2016, 09:01:49 PM
There's no real indication that he's chewing to eat though. Dogs chew on things as a form of 'play.'
Agreed, but didn't Fincher proclaim that it was eating them?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 27, 2016, 09:27:16 PM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 26, 2016, 09:01:49 PM
There's no real indication that he's chewing to eat though. Dogs chew on things as a form of 'play.'
Agreed, but didn't Fincher proclaim that it was eating them?
Yep, confirmed by him and ADI guys