Do you think we'll get like updated Pulse rifles and Smartguns? aka Pulse Rifle MKII etc?
If they have Pulse Rifles and Smart Guns I just as soon they don't touch anything. Those designs are flawless as is.
One of the most annoying things to me in Colonial Marines was seeing the Pulse Rifle done up like an AR-15 pattern rifle with the stupid rails and irons added on it. No.
Nah - that made sense. It had no sights. Not even iron sights. And you never saw it used with their HUDs. It was a silly concept as a weapon.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 16, 2015, 12:49:20 PMNah - that made sense. It had no sights. Not even iron sights. And you never saw it used with their HUDs. It was a silly concept as a weapon.
It fairness, we never really see it all that clearly in the film. I always just assumed it had some iron sights in the groove along the top of the carry handle - something
ACM added to the few oldschool Pulse Rifles that were in the game.
OT: All these "do you think this will be in the new film?" threads crack me up. How the
hell do we know what will be in the new film and what won't? We don't even know what the new film's about yet.
Better yet, we never really seee that much of any of the weapons. I suppose the only real clip we get of the Pulse Rifle is from this scene
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Favp%2Fimages%2F5%2F58%2FAliens-m41a-pulse-rifle-12.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130525170447&hash=ac2d8708b46982989bfd7dfea51d9d7b6c29c665)
I suppose the grove on top of the handle is where you look through to aim.
It really depends on how many years are meant to have passed - if any.
No years.
Leak in cryotubes caused advanced aging.
Expect Aliens level tech. Including sharp sticks.
Aliens takes place over two hundred years in the future. Can't we get something a little more advanced?
Interesting that you say that. The treatment for Aliens indicates that the intention originally was that the USCM weapons were plasma-energy based and not "10MM explosive tipped caseless." :)
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 16, 2015, 11:47:29 PM
Aliens takes place over two hundred years in the future. Can't we get something a little more advanced?
Aliens takes place 57 years after Alien, actually.
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:54:19 PM
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 16, 2015, 11:47:29 PM
Aliens takes place over two hundred years in the future. Can't we get something a little more advanced?
Aliens takes place 57 years after Alien, actually.
...And? It still takes place roughly two hundred years in the future. :)
If this is an Aliens sequel the M41A pulse rifle had better be in it. :P
Also, I thought the thing kind of aimed themselves, like the smart guns did? Just point and shoot, and things end up dead.
If laser weapons can be done tastefully like in Prometheus sure, but I'd really like to see realistic weapons akin to the pulse rifle honestly, the weapons from the Halo series would be good inspiration.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 17, 2015, 10:54:48 PM
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 17, 2015, 03:54:19 PM
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 16, 2015, 11:47:29 PM
Aliens takes place over two hundred years in the future. Can't we get something a little more advanced?
Aliens takes place 57 years after Alien, actually.
...And? It still takes place roughly two hundred years in the future. :)
I missed that. :P
Just keep the Industrial look of everything.
Motion Tracker!!
I honestly do like the kind of weapons shown in 'District 9' and 'Chappie'. They were futuristic, but also totally plausible. Advanced technology can do very nasty things to organic flesh.
If the pulse rifle does feature, I'd actually like it to be shown having a ridiculously overpowered effect when it hits a human being. The rounds are meant to penetrate armour and explode. Exactly the kind of effects we saw in 'District 9' and something which would make people appreciate how Aliens can hold up to them in a limited fashion.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 18, 2015, 02:40:56 PMIf the pulse rifle does feature, I'd actually like it to be shown having a ridiculously overpowered effect when it hits a human being. The rounds are meant to penetrate armour and explode.
Actually what we see in
Alien 3 is probably quite accurate. Armour-piercing rounds are generally pretty crap against people, because they go straight through soft flesh without causing much damage. The W-Y guys in the film have to unload on Aaron to actually put him down because the explosive-tips don't do their thing.
Of course, if it was guy with heavy body armour on, they'd likely go boom inside...
Quote from: Vermillion on Mar 16, 2015, 11:22:37 PM
No years.
Leak in cryotubes caused advanced aging.
A leak in the cryotubes that ages them all, Lion-O style? You can count me out.
Thunder
Thunder
Thundercats!
HO!!!!!!
I said you can count me out!
I guess we can just count you out of everything huh?
I'll go .......
I suppose so. Given the aging actors this will probably have a later setting and it makes sense for weapons and such to advance.
Oh, and despite how iconic they are, flamethrowers should be used sparingly as most soldiers today don't use them.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 18, 2015, 09:35:04 PMOh, and despite how iconic they are, flamethrowers should be used sparingly as most soldiers today don't use them.
Because a Smartgun is such a realistic weapon...
As I recall, at least in some of the early drafts and behind the scenes stuff, the flamethrowers were more Ripley's idea. (Taken from her brief.)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 18, 2015, 02:50:31 PM
Actually what we see in Alien 3 is probably quite accurate. Armour-piercing rounds are generally pretty crap against people, because they go straight through soft flesh without causing much damage. The W-Y guys in the film have to unload on Aaron to actually put him down because the explosive-tips don't do their thing.
Of course, if it was guy with heavy body armour on, they'd likely go boom inside...
I'd assume they'd have fuse settings by that time, so that they'd explode when registering penetration.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Mar 18, 2015, 09:35:04 PM
Oh, and despite how iconic they are, flamethrowers should be used sparingly as most soldiers today don't use them.
I'm actually hoping that it will be canonised flamethrowers have
zero effect on an Alien's health. That they might veer away from it because of proverbial sensory overload, but little else. So many comics and, especially, games, have Aliens being killed with flamethrowers, but we never actually saw it in the films (if anything, the lack of harm from the escape shuttle's thrusters should indicate fire wouldn't do much).
Something I was pleasantly surprised to see '
Alien Isolation' did.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 18, 2015, 09:58:00 PM
Because a Smartgun is such a realistic weapon...
It is when you have motion tracker technology. :) In terms of 1986, it was a logical man-portable extension of CIWS systems for navy ships, like the Phalanx.
As of today, you could probably make something rather like a smartgun. We'd probably use thermal imaging for the guidance system.
However, Cameron got his technological predictions
slightly wrong... What are now being made are guided
bullets. Primarily for sniper use, but I can't imagine it will be very long before the basic technology starts to become standard.
Then again, who's to say they weren't firing those from pulse rifles, too? :) Technically, they don't even call Vasquez's and Drake's weapons 'smart guns' on screen. They could be retconned as just about anything in another film, including a massively powerful and heavy gun which simply needs the harness to haul it about.
I really hope they keep it realistic and small scale and limited. I know Blomkamp is known for what made the weapons in Alien so goddamn beautiful, but I just hope he goes overboard in appropriate ways. I don't know. As long as he keeps it interesting with the weaponry being able to kill Aliens, but killing an Alien won't save you. And model with existing silhouettes of actual weaponry, like they did with the Pulse Rifle, materials that reduce recoil taken into consideration, and the fact this has to make sense from a perspective of this is a future of cutting costs but streamlining and making more efficient past technology. Weaponry would be no exception.
Weapons like the Corner Shot Holdings', LLC USA brandname CornerShot Grenade Launcher (In service by Azerbailan Special Forces Beijing Special Weapons and Tactics Unit, Delhi Police Special Weapons and Tactics, Israel [Their own model] across their armed services, Mexico's Cuerpo de Fuerzas Especiales, Russia across their armed services, A non-lethal version employed by US law enforcement, And the South Korean Special Forces using the Israeli model). It just looks like something that fits right into what set the mood for military technology in Aliens. Using something similar in silhouette and material, would be good.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F1%2F1d%2FCornershot_eurosatory2006.jpg&hash=63da41ba3ba4f2bf80fbac72c8948fe37df1193a)
I think an idea they should go towards is the ability to mix and match weaponry. Just sliding attachments in an out quick, an ability present in most weaponry today, but in the future of Aliens, could be much more streamlined.
The only problem with that last point, and it may be minor to some, is does it make sense from the rules that the universe has laid down? The guns in Aliens aren't particularly modular. So are we to believe that we went from the smooth evolution of today, of weapons systems becoming highly modular and adaptable, to more mainstay/locked designs, back to modular and adaptable weapons?
I think it might be smarter to just follow the evolution of the weapons seen in Aliens, if indeed this is going to be a direct sequel to Aliens set sometime afterward.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 18, 2015, 11:16:02 PM
The only problem with that last point, and it may be minor to some, is does it make sense from the rules that the universe has laid down? The guns in Aliens aren't particularly modular. So are we to believe that we went from the smooth evolution of today, of weapons systems becoming highly modular and adaptable, to more mainstay/locked designs, back to modular and adaptable weapons?
I think it might be smarter to just follow the evolution of the weapons seen in Aliens, if indeed this is going to be a direct sequel to Aliens set sometime afterward.
I actually got the opposite idea from the years watching Aliens. Everything seems modular sure, it looks streamlined, but the BDUs of the marines, the shoulder lamp, the video camera on Apone's helmet, the prop of the motion tracker, the kit Huson pulls out to unlock the barrier into the colony, everything looks like it could be attached to something to me. Slid, or hooked on. That's how they made most of the props, and it shows. Even the colony always had that aesthetic to me. But I suppose you're right? I mean it's really hard to tell, the scenes I took that from are more of an assumption built up from the look of everything, especially when there's so many props in a scene, like in the APC. Hell, the APC even rolls out of the Cheyenne. I just always assumed that what was being put across, but you could be right.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 18, 2015, 10:49:35 PMI'd assume they'd have fuse settings by that time, so that they'd explode when registering penetration.
Not according to the Tech Manual.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 18, 2015, 10:49:35 PMIt is when you have motion tracker technology. :) In terms of 1986, it was a logical man-portable extension of CIWS systems for navy ships, like the Phalanx.
I wasn't talking about in the context of the film. My point was Born Of Cold Light said flamethrowers are unrealistic because people don't use them in the real world. But he's trying to use that argument against a
science-fiction film.
And regardless of the fact the technology to theoretically build a Smartgun might exist, it doesn't change the fact the design is one of the most impractical weapons ever created for a film. It would be utterly useless in real-world combat. Far too cumbersome, and it leaves the operator
completely exposed when in use.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 19, 2015, 08:39:04 AM
And regardless of the fact the technology to theoretically build a Smartgun might exist, it doesn't change the fact the design is one of the most impractical weapons ever created for a film. It would be utterly useless in real-world combat. Far too cumbersome, and it leaves the operator completely exposed when in use.
I actually raised the latter point some time ago, and someone posted a sketch of how the SG can be used while in a crouched position. Effectively letting the operator fire from behind cover without exposing most of their body/not having to look.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 19, 2015, 03:01:12 PMI actually raised the latter point some time ago, and someone posted a sketch of how the SG can be used while in a crouched position. Effectively letting the operator fire from behind cover without exposing most of their body/not having to look.
I've seen that sketch. It's in the Tech Manual, and it's kind of silly. There's also one for firing the gun while prone, which involves the user lying on their back. (!)
The Smartgun is a laughably cumbersome weapon that only serves to inhibit the user's movement and leave them wide open to enemy fire as they lope around. The ability to automatically track a target has practically no advantage compared to a well-dug-in machine gun or a trained sharpshooter who can aim his weapon and stay concealed in cover whilst doing so.
I mean it's cool in
Aliens and all, but the Smartgun would be less than useless in a real combat scenario.
That goes back to a point I made earlier too about the evolution of the technology in the Alien universe. Here in the 21st Century most modernised military forces, particular elite operators, are all but using a single weapon system to fulfill the tasks of many. Something like the HK416 which can customised to do the job of all the major classes in a squad. The weapons in Aliens don't really indicate that kind of modularity in design at all. Nothing on the Pulse Rifle can be migrated to the Smart Gun, or vice versa. They're individual weapon systems all their own.
I've also questioned whether the smart gun was not designed as a weapon for pest control. That's the way it always came off to me.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 19, 2015, 03:12:38 PMI've also questioned whether the smart gun was not designed as a weapon for pest control. That's the way it always came off to me.
That's the only really logical use for it. You certainly wouldn't want to take one into battle against an opponent who can shoot back.
I mean, I can look past all that in the film, because it's sci-fi. But in reality a Smartgun would be more of a hindrance than a benefit. Not to mention they'd be the prime target for
everybody on the opposing side. As soon as they showed up everyone would just mow them down. And then the gun's strapped to a corpse so it can't be retrieved.
An interesting point to bring up, is the destructive capabilities of the APC's Independently Targeting Particle Beam Phalanx, something that could independently shoot, probably invisible, kinetic accelerated particles that f**k up anything in its path moleculaly, let's say you have multiple APC's.
Whoever is in front of an APC would be doomed, and if we're not talking orbital bombardment of strategic locations that would send reinforcements to a ground engagement. I think, in terms of human on human combat, it doesn't matter how cumbersome the smart gun is, based on how often costs are cut in this world, I'm assuming that's the case with the smart gun, but cut because feet on the ground would probably come in to clean up what ever the hell that was left after a "Fry half a city with this puppy"
Jury rigged flamethrowers, cattle prods and grappling hooks. That sort of thing.
No chance of that though. Big machine guns and exosuit silliness I guess.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 19, 2015, 08:39:04 AM
Not according to the Tech Manual.
Fan-fiction, at best. :)
I remember those speculative data-sheet things when before they got collected into a book. Originally, they had the smart gun as a laser weapon which fired bursts of a light beam (the writers figured the battery was the 'magazine', rather than what powered the guidance system). It got changed because of readers writing complaint letters.
So, they're nice to look at, but I in no way consider them canonical. Only what showed up on screen can count.
Quote from: Gash on Mar 19, 2015, 04:38:37 PM
Jury rigged flamethrowers, cattle prods and grappling hooks. That sort of thing.
No chance of that though. Big machine guns and exosuit silliness I guess.
I like the way you think. : )
Alien: Isolation did a good job of marrying the Alien universe with some Alien concepts, but not taking it too far. You got your flamethrower and cattle prod, but you also got your shotguns and wheel guns. Just enough firepower to make their presence felt without dominating everything. You'll also notice how much more tense a scene is when the Marines only have pistols and shotties and flamer units. Take the machine guns and grenade launchers away and you've got instant tension.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 20, 2015, 11:25:04 PMFan-fiction, at best. :)
As opposed to someone randomly suggesting the rounds have a fuse setting based on... no real evidence?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 21, 2015, 01:08:28 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 20, 2015, 11:25:04 PMFan-fiction, at best. :)
As opposed to someone randomly suggesting the rounds have a fuse setting based on... no real evidence?
Indeed.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 21, 2015, 01:08:28 PM
As opposed to someone randomly suggesting the rounds have a fuse setting based on... no real evidence?
I never said it was definite. I speculated a theory, based on how things are going in
real-life. Explosive rounds with fuse settings designed to deal the most damage are hardly radical technology. :)
Also, reality has already out-paced the Technical Manual, somewhat.
As long as Hicks gets another shotgun and wastes at least one alien the same way he did the terminator at Tech Noir, saving Ripley from certain death at the last nek minit.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview%2F655725%2Fterminator-tech-noir-o.gif&hash=6fabf3e4e2016521e5c09a1808239ff6d70f5361)
The smartgun might not be a practical weapon but at least it seems to make some sense in the context of a semi-realistic movie like Aliens. The flamethrower's presence in Aliens could be explained by the fact that since those in charge of organizing the LV-426 mission believed that alien lifeforms might be involved, a flamethrower might be good in eradicating any kind of harmful contagions. But especially in the EU, flamethrowers are sometimes almost as common as pulse rifles even when they are not very practical at all in much modern warfare. I also wholly agree with the sentiment that flamethrowers should not be able to inflict much damage on adult Aliens, as I feel that it would make them appear to be too weak. Also, it would add an extra layer of horror to the first film, as you would realize that the characters in it truly had no chance.
One idea is to introduce weapons that are reminiscent of the weapons we saw in Aliens but which are clearly different. The first few Dark Horse stories have a number of good examples of this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/volume1-03.png)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rarecomicbooks.fashionablewebs.com%2FAliens%2FAliens%25201.jpg&hash=2157af1f11698e95a42fca8418dfd57c784ea203)
(https://franspopart.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/aliens2e.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Favp%2Fimages%2F4%2F41%2FBillie_suit_xnewt.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%2Fscale-to-width%2F200%3Fcb%3D20100425054009%255Bimg%255D%253Cbr%2520%2F%253E%253Cbr%2520%2F%253E%255Bimg%255Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Favp%2Fimages%2F2%2F2f%2FWilks2.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20100426211404&hash=5a44b57512208abf0f5fedbe10adda0fe9a18b36)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openlettersmonthly.com%2Ffourcoloropera%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F08%2F3.jpg&hash=369fc3ccf51ecfde91fb1209073e0a4893b195f2)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%2Favp%2Fimages%2Ff%2Ff1%2FNewtEarthWar.jpg&hash=4a605f0d58de2242413eedba6bf1913c593985d2)
Flamethrowers have their uses. Would imagine they'd probably have to be fine-tuned, depending on the oxygen content of a given planet's atmosphere.
Russia loves their 'flame-tanks'.
They aren't such a great idea on a spaceship with a limited oxygen supply though... :)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 16, 2015, 08:02:07 AM
They aren't such a great idea on a spaceship with a limited oxygen supply though... :)
Well, that wasn't what they were being used for.