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I would rather see it retconned after Aliens or place with the other 4 films.

I would rather see it take place after the four movies. I'm not in favor of a retcon.

Does anybody know of any movies that went a different direction with a retcon and turned out really good?

None of this damaging retcon nonsense.  It's divisive and damaging in the extreme for no gain other than needlessly bringing back a pair of characters that have already run their distance. 

Finish off the series with a direct sequel  to 'ALIEN: Resurrection'.  Wrap it all up properly and put Ripley 8 (Ripley in general.) to rest, finally.  There is so much potential here to finish the series responsibly without relying on comic book variety indulgent tangential fan wank.

-Windebieste.

With other Alien films. Dreams, alternate realities can bite it.

Either first or fourth options.

according to the poll once again people want Ripley 8.

is it coll or call ??

anyways we might see Winona rider come back !!??

LOL

Because Ripley 8 has some real potential to get interesting. Her connection to the Aliens and her alienation from humanity could be really fun to play with. And I imagine Sigourney would love that kind of thing.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 25, 2015, 08:29:06 AM
Because Ripley 8 has some real potential to get interesting. Her connection to the Aliens and her alienation from humanity could be really fun to play with. And I imagine Sigourney would love that kind of thing.

Yeah, I guess. I personally hate Ripley 8. The majority of the running time spent with her in A:R was watching a woman who was so disconnected there was no way to relate to anything about her. The only seen that ever got a heartbeat for me at all was the cloning scene (and the one brief moment where 8 cried over the picture of the little girl... Which was a deleted scene.)


I voted for a retcon.

We don't have to be able to connect to them. Just find them interesting.

That's where Prometheus faltered. It insisted we had to have a connection.

Voted number 1. I want a true Alien 5 and the only way that would work is if it came after the fourth movie. You can't just retcon 3 + 4 and put in number 5. It doesn't add up.

Not an Alien sequel, but Prometheus 2 all the way.

i voted retcon because i thought thats  what most people wanted. i sorta did want a retcon but the script writing for alien 3 showed they basically had no where else to go - after 13 scripts they ended up with alien 3. so i agree with going after alien 4.

i always thought closing the story of Ripley would have worked nice if r8 went and discovered Ripley's life (history) and then understood she(r8)  received the payoff for it(for Ripley sacrificing her life) - super strong - super adaptable- and became what the bio weapons devision always wanted. but now WY no longer existed so perhaps she decides to right the wrong of WY ala pretender style.

Quote from: Marty1987 on Feb 20, 2015, 10:06:49 PMDoes anybody know of any movies that went a different direction with a retcon and turned out really good?

I was wondering about this myself.

How did Superman Returns go down? I'm not really a fan so I never saw it.

Superman Returns was great right up until the end of the title sequence.

Quote from: Marty1987 on Feb 20, 2015, 10:06:49 PM
Does anybody know of any movies that went a different direction with a retcon and turned out really good?

from the little i know - i dont thinks so

does x men count ??.

---

was star trek retconned ??

Quote from: oduodu on Feb 25, 2015, 09:22:52 AMdoes x men count ??

I saw the latest one of those just recently.

I honestly couldn't believe they didn't even attempt to explain how Patrick Stewart was still alive. It's like they were saying, "F*ck it, the audience is too dumb to ask questions."

Quote from: oduodu on Feb 25, 2015, 09:22:52 AMwas star trek retconned ??

Sort of... it was kind of a rebootquel. But then time travel is a well-established trope in that franchise. I don't want it in Alien.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 25, 2015, 09:26:00 AM

Quote from: oduodu on Feb 25, 2015, 09:22:52 AMdoes x men count ??

I saw the latest one of those just recently.

I honestly couldn't believe they didn't even attempt to explain how Patrick Stewart was still alive. It's like they were saying, "F*ck it, the audience is too dumb to ask questions."

why does fans of x men fans never complain about this ?? the whole canon thing ?? oh shit i am a fan. cant explain it.

Quote from: oduodu on Feb 25, 2015, 09:22:52 AMwas star trek retconned ??

Sort of... it was kind of a rebootquel. But then time travel is a well-established trope in that franchise. I don't want it in Alien.

well i love both of those franchises and those things never seem to get discussed.

agree on the time travel thing it just messes everything up.

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 25, 2015, 09:07:18 AM

Quote from: Marty1987 on Feb 20, 2015, 10:06:49 PMDoes anybody know of any movies that went a different direction with a retcon and turned out really good?

I was wondering about this myself.

How did Superman Returns go down? I'm not really a fan so I never saw it.

Yea it went swell. They made Superman into a douche. Well even worse, they made him a deadbeat dad and gave him a mutant special needs son.

Oh wait you meant the retcon, yea no one notice and frankly I think it was welcomed. But Alien3 and AR are not Superman 3 and 4. Those movies didn't even fit into the series as it were.

Quote from: oduodu on Feb 25, 2015, 09:22:52 AM

Quote from: Marty1987 on Feb 20, 2015, 10:06:49 PM
Does anybody know of any movies that went a different direction with a retcon and turned out really good?

from the little i know - i dont thinks so

does x men count ??.

---

was star trek retconned ??

Thing is they all work within their franchise.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 25, 2015, 09:51:56 AM
Yea it went swell. They made Superman into a douche. Well even worse, they made him a deadbeat dad and gave him a mutant special needs son.

None of which are things that are tied to the idea of a retcon itself.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 25, 2015, 09:53:53 AM

Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 25, 2015, 09:51:56 AM
Yea it went swell. They made Superman into a douche. Well even worse, they made him a deadbeat dad and gave him a mutant special needs son.

None of which are things that are tied to the idea of a retcon itself.

Yep, my bad. Thought he was asking why it sucked. However both superman 3 and 4, aside from numbering them didn't really have anything to do with each other. To me they were just stand alones and really bad movies at that. I remember no one cared. However both Alien 3 and A|R were made to follow the previous movies and the 3rd movie isn't bad. That's why I have no problem with the returns retcon but don't like the idea of an alien retcon. However superman returns kind of stunk, imo. Shit if they do retcon alien3 and A|R he had better make sure not to f**k it up.

corporal hicks

i guess the burning question is then:

why does a3 and a4 not work well in the alien franchise ?

apologies: i assume thats what you meant !!

Quote from: oduodu on Feb 25, 2015, 10:01:17 AM
corporal hicks

i guess the burning question is then:

why does a3 and a4 not work well in the alien franchise ?

apologies: i assume thats what you meant !!

I mean the retcons work. Both properties play with timeline and multiple realities. What I mean is that wouldn't really feel right with the Aliens series.

How do people feel about the Terminator retcon? I mean, to me, it's basically shitting on the original 2 movies. However I don't see all that much anger over it. Is that because it is a time travel series?

Again, it all works within series. Technically every single film should be an alternate reality but with all the pre-destination style stuff in there as well it's just convoluted. Whether or not its any good... :-\

Quote from: Gash on Feb 25, 2015, 09:20:51 AM
Superman Returns was great right up until the end of the title sequence.

It was a pretty boring movie. Superman not once threw a punch.

Say what you will about III and IV, but at least Superman FOUGHT someone in those.

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 25, 2015, 10:27:57 AMSay what you will about III and IV, but at least Superman FOUGHT someone in those.

Off topic, but terrible or not, watching Superman IV whilst slightly drunk with a good friend is one of the best movie-going experiences of my life. I maintain it's one of the greatest comedies ever made.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 25, 2015, 10:13:36 AM
How do people feel about the Terminator retcon? I mean, to me, it's basically shitting on the original 2 movies. However I don't see all that much anger over it. Is that because it is a time travel series?

I don't acknowledge the existence of any Terminator film after 2. That was the perfect place to end it for me (plus everything that's come since has been shite)...

Reboot = Unimaginative & Cheap
Retcon = Lazy & Cheap

this retconing could make a really decent South Park episode

I just cant accept it taking place after the 4 alien movies bc that would require picking up after Resurrection......which was trash.  And so is the character of Ripley 8.  Sorry.

Quote from: Adam802 on Feb 26, 2015, 12:03:17 AMAnd so is the character of Ripley 8.

The character of Ripley 8 is one of the few truly decent things about that movie. She just wasn't explored anything like as well as she should have been.

Indeed. Ripley 8 has some amazing potential to delve into. Her connection between humanity and the truly Alien could be a wonderful canvas to paint on.

I would love to see Prometheus 2, but I had to choose between a retconned Alien 5 after Aliens I would pick that, provided it starred Sigourney Weaver and Michael Biehn again.  I have wanted to see a legitimate sequel to Aliens for almost thirty years.

I've wanted to see a worthy sequel to  A L I E N  for 36 years. If we're supporting retconning, let's go all the way and excise Aliens too.

Quote from: Gash on Feb 26, 2015, 10:30:38 AM
I've wanted to see a worthy sequel to  A L I E N  for 36 years. If we're supporting retconning, let's go all the way and excise Aliens too.

Good god. I'd love to see that discussion.

I actually find that idea particularly interesting. Not because I agree with Gash on Aliens, but just because there was an entire world of horror and mystery within Alien that we have never actually seen explored, at all, not even remotely.

Yea it did just become a bug hunt with a final boss. I'd actually like to see something different, sans the queen. I mean I love aliens but I don't want another aliens, I want something more horrifying I guess than action suspense. I'd like to see a different bred of alien or maybe another life cycle. That's past cocooning and mutation.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 26, 2015, 12:07:10 PM
Yea it did just become a bug hunt with a final boss. I'd actually like to see something different, sans the queen. I mean I love aliens but I don't want another aliens, I want something more horrifying I guess than action suspense. I'd like to see a different bred of alien or maybe another life cycle. That's past cocooning and mutation.

Agree that doing another Aliens with a new crew of Marines as xeno-fodder would be a bad idea. Couldn't possibly improve on Aliens, wouldn't progress the story and it would just be lazy. I would prefer to see elements of both Alien and Aliens in there. Blomkamp's concept art seemed to show a victim of egg-morphing so it would be interesting to see that expanded on in the film...

I think this might be one of the most telling examples of how the more "hardcore" fans differ from the more general fanbase. The idea of continuing after Alien: Resurrection is winning by a landslide here, but most other places I've seen this being discussed at are eagerly hoping for Alien 3 and A:R to be retconned out of existence.

Personally, I'd be open to just about any approach for a new Alien sequel, provided that it was executed well. However for argument's sake, I voted for this to act as a sequel to Aliens and erase A3 and A:R from the canon. Surprising as it might sound to folks here, I actually think it's probably the easiest route available for the series to produce a new and truly well-done sequel.

It's really not as hard as a lot of people here make it out to be: Alien -> Aliens -> Blomkamp's Alien.

If it were a sequel to Resurrection, I think it'd be really tricky and difficult to actually produce a quality film that will go over well with the general audiences. Things got... weird with A:R, and I think that the only way to continue that story and make it both compelling and a quality film would be to only delve deeper into that oddity. If pulled off properly, it could make for a cool film, but I think it'd be far too easy to screw something like that up. Moreover, even if it were done well, I'm not sure how well it'd go over with the general fans.

Meanwhile, creating a new story that follows Aliens not only keeps things simple, but it also provides plenty of possibilities for a compelling storyline too. Let's consider that for a moment: Alien introduces Ripley as a natural survivor who barely escapes the "dragon," Aliens continues her arc by presenting her as someone struggling with PTSD, as a mother and ultimately confronting her fears head-on.

Where do you take Ripley after Aliens? Where is she emotionally and mentally thirty-plus years later? I have a feeling that's been a big part of what Sigourney Weaver and Neill Blomkamp have been discussing over the past year in planning out this new story.

Mmmm, delicious necrophilia and cannibalism...

Quote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Feb 26, 2015, 12:33:52 PM
I think this might be one of the most telling examples of how the more "hardcore" fans differ from the more general fanbase. The idea of continuing after Alien: Resurrection is winning by a landslide here, but most other places I've seen this being discussed at are eagerly hoping for Alien 3 and A:R to be retconned out of existence.

Truth is, the internet rounds up all of us disparate fanboys and throws us into one large echo chamber where we all think the same thing (Alien canonicity) is important. It's not.

Biggest irony for me is the pro-Alien 3 "Get over it crowd" suddenly becoming flabbergasted and incensed at the idea of killing off Alien 3 :P

Quote from: Valaquen on Feb 26, 2015, 06:00:57 PM

Quote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Feb 26, 2015, 12:33:52 PM
I think this might be one of the most telling examples of how the more "hardcore" fans differ from the more general fanbase. The idea of continuing after Alien: Resurrection is winning by a landslide here, but most other places I've seen this being discussed at are eagerly hoping for Alien 3 and A:R to be retconned out of existence.

Truth is, the internet rounds up all of us disparate fanboys and throws us into one large echo chamber where we all think the same thing (Alien canonicity) is important. It's not.

Biggest irony for me is the pro-Alien 3 "Get over it crowd" suddenly becoming flabbergasted and incensed at the idea of killing off Alien 3 :P

Explain what's ironic about it? Apples and pears / fałse equivalency.

Quote from: Gash on Feb 26, 2015, 10:30:38 AM
I've wanted to see a worthy sequel to  A L I E N  for 36 years. If we're supporting retconning, let's go all the way and excise Aliens too.

With Aliens being one of my most favorite films of all time, I could actually get behind this if it was gone right.  Maybe we could get back to the alien being a psycho-sexual, perpetually decaying avatar of nihilism that it was originally intended to be.

It's ironic to me because those folks typically explain folk should accept Alien 3 or at least stop bawling that it disregarded Aliens. When it's announced that another film will ignore Alien 3, hyperbole like "cash grab" and "disrespect" and "fanwank" starts flying all over the place.

You seem upset. I don't expect measured responses right now. But remember telling Aliens fans that Alien 3 didn't remove the second film from their collections? Yeah. I can only say the same.

Quote from: Valaquen on Feb 26, 2015, 06:15:29 PM
It's ironic to me because those folks typically explain folk should accept Alien 3 or at least stop bawling that it disregarded Aliens. When it's announced that another film will ignore Alien 3, hyperbole like "cash grab" and "disrespect" and "fanwank" starts flying all over the place.

You seem upset. I don't expect measured responses right now. But remember telling Aliens fans that Alien 3 didn't remove the second film from their collections? Yeah. I can only say the same.

Like I said: apples and oranges / false equivalency.

Retconning (erasing) two movies is not the same as making a direct sequel that chooses to not to be a copy if the previous movie. So I don't know what you're talking about.

Nice jab btw...

Personally, while I'm upset they're apparently retconning the later films (although I'm still waiting for the studio to actually confirm this), at the end of the day, if that's what's being done, I'm excited to be getting a new movie. I'm not gonna lose sleep over it, even if I do think it was a lame move that just unnecessarily muddies the waters. It's not like my being angry and resentful will change anything. I just hope Blomkamp has some decent ideas for his film.

Of course, if the new movie sucks, then I'll be genuinely pissed.

Basically, if the character of Ripley is in it, I guess it has to be a sequel to Aliens. Resigned to it. I'd have preferred all new characters.

I'd rather Hicks and Newt weren't in it, I felt that direction, the family motif was always at odds with warrant officer Ripley. I don't know if the character profile of Ripley in ALIEN has her as a mother, but I thought it strange that a women would leave her daughter for 3 years at a time to do Nostromo hauls.

Still, I can see Blomkamp loving all the possibilities of advancing power-loader tech. Hmmm, I must admit I can't get all that enthused but if he respects Giger's original design, there could be some nice visuals at least.