http://www.scified.com/site/aliensvspredator/could-20th-century-fox-be-planning-to-retcon-the-alien-saga (http://www.scified.com/site/aliensvspredator/could-20th-century-fox-be-planning-to-retcon-the-alien-saga)
Completely baseless and utterly pointless.
They're movies. Just make do and move on if you don't like them.
Love alien 3 , don't care too much for resurection.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 29, 2014, 12:43:27 PM
Completely baseless and utterly pointless.
They're movies. Just make do and move on if you don't like them.
Sure, but WB retconned Superman III and IV for 'Returns.
Fox could do the same if there was financial mileage in it (and I don't see why there wouldn't be). I was intrigued by the idea of this to be honest.
I think Nicole Kidman would be a great post-Aliens Ripley. I saw a film with her... oh... yes! Dead Calm and I was amazed at how much I thought she resembled Alien-era Weaver. Not that physical resemblance should be the main thing, of course, but you know, in the name of stunt-casting and all that...
Of course, a ret-con probably won't happen, but it would be really nice if it did. Maybe off the back of the Aliens TV show we were postulating earlier *lol* It'll be like Marvel only better!
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 29, 2014, 12:43:27 PM
Completely baseless and utterly pointless.
They're movies. Just make do and move on if you don't like them.
I wouldn't have been so kind.
What utter drivel.
Place one vote into the hell yea lets retcon alien³ and A|R pile. However, the damage has already been done. Let's just move on to making better alien movies that people would love to watch. I'd prefer them to be horror/sci-fi rather than a romantic drama though.
Quote from: SM on Sep 29, 2014, 08:29:05 PM
What utter drivel.
Pretty much, not to mention that James Moore has pretty much confirmed that Fox changed their minds about retconning those films when they made him work A3 and A:R into Sea of Sorrows.
I'd like to see who the source of this rumour is.
The synopsis written there has potential, but considering how creatively bankrupt 'Colonial Marines' and 'Prometheus' turned out to be, I'd be very apprehensive about this. It'd be a real gamble and the writing would have to be top drawer for the characterisations of Ripley, Hicks and Newt.
Retcons are always a very high stakes game. You could erase something which you consider to have been poorly done, but at the potential expense fo replacing it with something worse.
The synopsis has legs, however... If it's done right, I wouldn't be averse and the magically appearing egg, Sulaco's cryotubes reverting to he style of the Nostromo's and Ripley's literal metamorphosis into being part-Alien, all have the obvious elements of a dream. 'Isolation' is, if nothing else, also demonstrating there's a large appetite out there for something made in the style of the originals and could easily be used as a stylistic template.
Huge gamble, though. I'm not sure who I'd feel safe with helming such a project.
Honestly, a part of me has always been fond of that original 'Alien 3' trailer: "On Earth, everyone can hear you scream..." :)
We all know perfectly well that there are no plans to retcon Alien3 and Resurrection (or just Resurrection), but the article, without a shred of evidence tries to suggest that it's something that Fox might be considering.
Because X-Men kinda, sorta did it?
QuoteI'd like to see who the source of this rumour is.
I can't get the page to load again for some reason, but what rumour? I don't actually recall seeing anything in the piece that even alluded to a rumour.
It's simply wank, and any mention of writing off films as dreams is 20+ year old wank.
If Weaver ends up doing a 5th film.. it'll be with her as an older Ripley 8.
Fans will just have to "deal with it".
Quote from: Russ on Sep 29, 2014, 03:22:26 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 29, 2014, 12:43:27 PM
Completely baseless and utterly pointless.
They're movies. Just make do and move on if you don't like them.
Sure, but WB retconned Superman III and IV for 'Returns.
By their very nature it's almost expected that a comic book movie franchise gets some sort of update or overhaul every so often. It happens in the comics all the time.
With the Alien films, each one is very much its own thing. They're sequels following up on one another and continuing a narrative, sure, but they are also, for the most part, pretty self contained stories and a product of the unique circumstances that went into making each one. Each film reflects (or, in the case of
Alien 3, somewhat subverts) the very specific visions that the creative teams involved had in mind. I'm much more interested in these differing products and the reflections of the people that made them than I am in somebody's desire to knock the latter ones out of continuity and [probably] just retread
Aliens.
God I hope not. If you want an 80's style action flick that's what The Expendables is for.
I expect a reboot that simply ignores what isn't liked about the Alien franchises.
Retconning though would be pretty stupid.
If you have to retcon something you are out of ideas and have hit creative bankruptcy.
Why would it even need to be retconned? Just use different characters at a different time like Prometheus did.
indeed pirate
indeed
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 29, 2014, 09:56:13 PM
I'd like to see who the source of this rumour is.
It kind of frames this:
"A true Alien 3, probably set 30+ years after the events of 1986's Aliens with a "mature" Weaver and Biehn, accompanied by a late 30s actress in the role of Newt settled on Earth, with the evil Weyland-Yutani somehow getting their hands on their long coveted prize, possibly from the crashed derelict Juggernaut on Acheron LV-426."
as a quote.
I'll write and ask?
The only potential retcon I've ever read about with regards to the ALIEN franchise, was back then when Ridley and Cameron played with the idea of making a sequel together, possibly picking up the story where ALIENS left the characters. Whether that concept was a pure Ridley/Cameron thing or the studio had any involvement, I have no idea.
As Ultramorph said, the fact Fox specifically decided not to undo the third and fourth films when they oversaw Sea of Sorrows kinda blows this one out of the water.
As for whether they should do it, we already had one massive retcon with Hicks' miracle resurrection in ACM, and look what a steaming pile that was. Just leave them dead and stop pandering to the kids who just want Aliens 2.
Quote from: Russ on Sep 30, 2014, 09:59:53 AM
It kind of frames this:
"A true Alien 3, probably set 30+ years after the events of 1986's Aliens with a "mature" Weaver and Biehn, accompanied by a late 30s actress in the role of Newt settled on Earth, with the evil Weyland-Yutani somehow getting their hands on their long coveted prize, possibly from the crashed derelict Juggernaut on Acheron LV-426."
as a quote.
I'll write and ask?
That's what I was curious about, yeah. It's like they were quoting from someone/somewhere, but forgot who to attribute it to.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 30, 2014, 10:05:57 AM
As Ultramorph said, the fact Fox specifically decided not to undo the third and fourth films when they oversaw Sea of Sorrows kinda blows this one out of the water.
As for whether they should do it, we already had one massive retcon with Hicks' miracle resurrection in ACM, and look what a steaming pile that was. Just leave them dead and stop pandering to the kids who just want Aliens 2.
That they were considering it, speaks volumes. Someone got cold feet, but it's clear there was motivation from higher up to see whether it could be viable to go down that creative road. If they considered it in a serious fashion once, it's possible they'll do so again.
Also, let's keep in mind nobody bothered to point out to Scott all the various similarities with the first of the AVP films, back when '
Prometheus' was being made. It seems they've become very hands-off, creatively. If someone was handed the reins and decided to retcon the third and fourth films into a dream, I can see Fox simply shrugging proverbial shoulders and going with it.
Quote from: Eva on Sep 30, 2014, 10:05:11 AM
The only potential retcon I've ever read about with regards to the ALIEN franchise, was back then when Ridley and Cameron played with the idea of making a sequel together, possibly picking up the story where ALIENS left the characters. Whether that concept was a pure Ridley/Cameron thing or the studio had any involvement, I have no idea.
I've a book that talks about it.
Scott/Cameron were going to do two movies written together. Scott was actually going to do the big sequel with them going out to the Alien's homeworld and smacking the Aliens around, and Cameron was going to do the slower paced lost in space trapped in a spaceship sequel. From memory they both were supposed to have the Ripley 8 and Call characters in them.
Somebody got the bright idea to do AvP instead.
I thought Cameron said he had raised the idea to Scott but had not heard anything back. Then Fox announced AvP and that derailed any plans. Cameron was going to write it, Scott direct.
according to this dude they both were going to direct one.
Even though I'm not entirely sure how well this dude researched his shiznit. Its full of things I've never heard of before and I consider myself an above average fan in terms of knowing about movie history, even the unwritten and unused stories out there.
book was dissecting aliens by John L Flynn.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 30, 2014, 06:27:22 PM
Quote from: Eva on Sep 30, 2014, 10:05:11 AM
The only potential retcon I've ever read about with regards to the ALIEN franchise, was back then when Ridley and Cameron played with the idea of making a sequel together, possibly picking up the story where ALIENS left the characters. Whether that concept was a pure Ridley/Cameron thing or the studio had any involvement, I have no idea.
I've a book that talks about it.
Scott/Cameron were going to do two movies written together. Scott was actually going to do the big sequel with them going out to the Alien's homeworld and smacking the Aliens around, and Cameron was going to do the slower paced lost in space trapped in a spaceship sequel. From memory they both were supposed to have the Ripley 8 and Call characters in them.
Somebody got the bright idea to do AvP instead.
The story I heard was that it was going to be one film with Cameron writing & producing and Scott directing (since he can't write). Now it sounds like Scott was basically going to do Alien
s 2 and Cameron do Alien 2.
This is according to that guy. You would have to read it to see whether you agree or not.
I give him the benefit of the doubt since some of the stuff about the unused Alien 3 and original Peter Briggs drafts was indeed true. The unused stuff though about new Alien movies though, his book is literally the only one I've ever seen them discussed.
I think its hinted at that Cameron would write both installments, just that they would flip the directing responsibilities to do something other than their strong suits. Cameron more horror, Ridley more action.
There was also another Aliens knockoff he mentioned where the Aliens made it to a space elevator and the Marines had to stop the Aliens from reaching the bottom and invading the surface of Earth. Was supposed to be one of the better Aliens knockoff scripts around.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 30, 2014, 07:19:22 PM
The story I heard was that it was going to be one film with Cameron writing & producing and Scott directing (since he can't write). .
..and Cameron
can?
Quote from: Gash on Sep 30, 2014, 07:53:43 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 30, 2014, 07:19:22 PM
The story I heard was that it was going to be one film with Cameron writing & producing and Scott directing (since he can't write). .
..and Cameron can?
Compare their writing credits on IMDb. Cameron has Terminator, Aliens, Titanic and Avatar. Ridley has...
Boy and Bicycle.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 30, 2014, 07:19:22 PM
The story I heard was that it was going to be one film with Cameron writing & producing and Scott directing (since he can't write).
That's also what I read.
As for Riddles not being a good writer, he would be the first one to point that out himself (and he has done so in interviews). He's stressed the importance on allying yourself with good writers on several occasions.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 30, 2014, 08:54:15 PM
Quote from: Gash on Sep 30, 2014, 07:53:43 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 30, 2014, 07:19:22 PM
The story I heard was that it was going to be one film with Cameron writing & producing and Scott directing (since he can't write). .
..and Cameron can?
Compare their writing credits on IMDb. Cameron has Terminator, Aliens, Titanic and Avatar. Ridley has...Boy and Bicycle.
Oh I know the credits, I just think it's debatable that those credits suggest Cameron is a good writer. Ridley sticks to what he knows he excels at, Cameron branches out and dilutes his talent. IMHO.
James Cameron recently mentioned it when he was on reddit that he and Scott did start talking about it. They did actually meet face to face. But Fox went with AvP instead.
It's all so disappointing.
The last direct quote I saw from Cameron had him say he was writing the draft, hadn't heard anythng back from Scott about it (and never uktimately did), then mentioned it to someoneat Fox, who casually mentioned they were doing an AVP concept film: They had been naware Scott/Cameron were planning a fifth movie. He said it took his inspiration away or someting (but that, after seein it, it wasn't the Godzilla-alike toy adver he thought it would be, after all).
From that, my reading of the situation is that Cameron was ultimately the only entity involved who was actively trying to do something about getting it made. My guess is that Fox may well have gone with their concept instead of Anderson's, if they had known about it in advance. Weaver has mentioned having diners with Scott where the ideaof a fifth movie was brought up several times, but nothing about Cameron. So, I'm guessing it was just the two of them whe were making plans.
As for Cameron's writing skills, he's churned some excellent stuff out, script-wise, but he's always been an avid reader of science-fiction and my guess is that the better quality stuff rubbed off on him.
At this point I would love it if Fox decided to do a remake/reboot of the franchise, providing they actually have a long term plan like many other studios are doing with their franchises. There is still a lot of potential in this franchise (despite what Ridley Scott says) as long as Fox doesn't half-ass it
Ripley's story is finished. Shes a walking Jesus metaphor with her beginning (Alien) life (Aliens) death and resurrection. If ever another alien movie is considered, It needs to be a fresh story with maybe some hints to the previous films. And no fan wank hints either, I want hints that are relevant and legit to the plot. If the story was about revisiting LV-426 100 years later, a mention of the marines and their ill fated mission could be mentioned. Just enough reference to give us the bumps but nothing more.
Quote from: Jango1201 on Oct 03, 2014, 01:42:17 AMRipley's story is finished. Shes a walking Jesus metaphor with her beginning (Alien) life (Aliens) death and resurrection.
Alien 5 could be her Second Coming to save the world during an alien apocalypse?
But it's science fiction not fantasy.
If they ever did retcon Aliens, I want the creatures from the arcade game to be featured.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 03, 2014, 06:39:43 PM
Quote from: Jango1201 on Oct 03, 2014, 01:42:17 AMRipley's story is finished. Shes a walking Jesus metaphor with her beginning (Alien) life (Aliens) death and resurrection.
Alien 5 could be her Second Coming to save the world during an alien apocalypse?
I think that would be a little over the top. Plus the alien apocalypse has already happened years before her resurrection so shes a little late.
Quote from: Jango1201 on Oct 04, 2014, 02:56:53 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 03, 2014, 06:39:43 PM
Quote from: Jango1201 on Oct 03, 2014, 01:42:17 AMRipley's story is finished. Shes a walking Jesus metaphor with her beginning (Alien) life (Aliens) death and resurrection.
Alien 5 could be her Second Coming to save the world during an alien apocalypse?
I think that would be a little over the top. Plus the alien apocalypse has already happened years before her resurrection so shes a little late.
Really? When?
I've been thinking about this along with the TV show discussion elsewhere on the forum.
On the one hand I don't think there's any need for a retcon. I initially hated what they did with AL III EN, but they did what they did and it totally fits. It might be a shit way for Hicks and Newt to go out but there we have it.
What really muddies the water for me is the abomination of Alien Resurrection. The big deletion and all that crap. I'd love to have that movie deleted because it makes its own internal logic work with the bullshit deletion and Ripley clones and all that crap, but of course wrecks it everything else (I bet they've dealt with that in the EU stuff?).
On the other hand, saying that Hicks, Newt and Ripley sailed off into the sunset and retired to a farming planet somewhere feels better. It serves a jumping off point for new adventures that has some connection to the old stories. I think the connection is key.
For instance - Superman Returns really felt like a sequel (threequel?) to Superman II. Even though there were different actors and it was many years after the event, it had that connection (the music, Lex's land obsession, Spacey's take on Hackman's portrayal, Routh's Reeve-a-like - it worked. Despite the rubbish costume and a mis-cast Lois).
The Aliens universe is huge and we know that the EU stuff has proven that you can have totally unrelated stories, but for me, I love a bit referencing and connection to the source.
So whilst we don't need a retcon - I'd like one. But that's purely subjective - I'm confident that retconned or not, there are more stories to be told on big and small screen.
Quote from: Jango1201 on Oct 04, 2014, 02:56:53 AMI think that would be a little over the top. Plus the alien apocalypse has already happened years before her resurrection so shes a little late.
Except
Resurrection specifically says there's been no contact with the Xenomorphs between
Alien 3 and then.
I was referencing the EU.
I invite everyone who is interested in a continuation of the series where Aliens left off to join the Facebook fanpage in support of this idea here:
https://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change (https://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change)
Also, this topic was earlier discussed on this forum here:
"Aliens Continuity Change"
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=51020.60 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=51020.60)
What if we actively hate the idea of rectonning the films just because fanboys want an Aliens 2?
You are welcome to set up your own facebook, twitter, or whatever page to promote your idea. It's 2014, the options are limitless. But in a world where bad press is good press, the net result is that you will be promoting the Aliens retcon anyway.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 06, 2014, 12:59:07 PM
What if we actively hate the idea of rectonning the films just because fanboys want an Aliens 2?
I'm more than happy to have Resurrection retconned out of existence but Alien 3, for me personally at least, is a good film and a fantastic ending to the Ripley story arc.
I think the franchises (Predator included) are suffering because of retcons. I started to lose hope for the canon/continuity when Aliens: Colonial Marines came out. And that hope is pretty much dwindling further and further since the old EU was tossed in favor for a new one for Prometheus's sequel films.
Retconning the continuity is such bull, if you ask me and it excludes fans who enjoyed certain particular stories. I was genuinely surprised to learn that Alien 3 and Resurrection were considered for the chopping block. Alien 3 and Resurrection do have a lot of hate for them, though I'd think the former.. fans started to forgive Alien 3. Resurrection? From what I know, not many fans forgive it but the movie does have it's fans.
Enough of the damn retconning.. If anything move those stories to an AU and they'd still be somehow canon in the grand scheme of things. Wasn't Colonial Marines enough of a retcon disaster as it was and still is?
RETC0N ALL TEH STUFF I DUNT LIEK!
Let's retcon everything that happened after 1980.
Nah, lets go all the way back and retcon O'Bannon.
You mean back to "They Bite"?
Was they bite a scriptment before starbeast?
vague recollections
A Dan O'Bannon story where this creature changes shapes could be a tire or just about anything. He also had one about Gremlins on a plane.
O' Bannon was an imaginative fellow.
Quote from: Darwinsgirl on Oct 06, 2014, 10:17:03 PM
A Dan O'Bannon story where this creature changes shapes could be a tire or just about anything. He also had one about Gremlins on a plane.
IIRC, that one was actually animated as a segment in Heavy Metal.
Yes he was. :)
Not to high jack this thread further. He was asked to work on a project "Bloody Noses" which was a comedy based on Ed Gein of Psycho fame. He even wanted to act in it. Never happened to my knowledge.
I'm a fan of Mr. O'Bannon...I'll stop before I continue to babble on. ;D
Local Trouble do you mean the movie "Heavy Metal"?
Retcon the beach ball
beachball best part of darkstar
Quote from: Darwinsgirl on Oct 06, 2014, 10:36:47 PMLocal Trouble do you mean the movie "Heavy Metal"?
Sorry to answer for him, but yes, he does :)
Thank You HuDaFuk for responding.
I see about renting it :)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 07, 2014, 07:33:28 AM
Quote from: Darwinsgirl on Oct 06, 2014, 10:36:47 PMLocal Trouble do you mean the movie "Heavy Metal"?
Sorry to answer for him, but yes, he does :)
I don't get it. Was I unclear? ???
There was a running comic back in the day as well that could've featured his stories.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 07, 2014, 05:23:37 PM
I don't get it. Was I unclear? ???
My oversight of "animated" in your post :P
I tend to think of printed material 1st rather then film. So I was thinking Heavy Metal Magazine which has featured O'Bannon's work. 8) I believe "The Long Tomorrow" was the O'Bannon story Moebius illustrated. There may be others too.
Well if worse comes to worse, some other Film Company can just buy the rights to keep it alive.
New story, new characters, new cast. and make sure it isnt crap
Fans of a retcon which includes Hicks and Newt are invited to join facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change. We post all the latest information on the Alien 5 movie...
You already posted that in another thread -- think it's enough.
As much as I would love hicks back (and in a way that wasn't A:CM) I don't want to see Alien 3 retconned, depressing as it is and subpar compared to the first two movies, it was powerful in its own way.
It was powerfully depressing. :P
Of course, it shows that heroes don't always live happily ever after, the point of the movie was hopelessness.
That's supposed to make me like it?
Point is it's meant be depressing. You're not meant to like it. It's like complaining that Alien is scary and wanting a reboot where the Alien is less threatening.
F*** Hicks and Newt.I'm glad they've been dealt with,Hicks too closely resembled the Reese character from the Terminator-having the same actor come back to play a similar role was a mistake imo.Might have been a more interesting part played by the original choice-and Newt was just plain annoying.I didn't think so at the time,but ALIEN3 is a breath of fresh air after ALIENS.No reboots or sequels please!
QuoteYou're not meant to like it.
That's the problem! QuoteF*** Hicks and Newt.
They did.
It's not the problem.
Again, like bitching that Alien is scary. That's the point.
Alien 3's grimdarkness is one of the few things I actually like about it.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 15, 2015, 12:50:57 AM
It's not the problem.
Again, like bitching that Alien is scary. That's the point.
I find myself somewhat disagreeing with this assessment. While, yes, it's supposed to be like that, I don't think that's a particularly apt comparison in this instance. Audience expectation is a factor in some of these choices, or at the very least should be considered by the creatively wise. Of course, Fox wasn't exactly being "creatively wise" with Alien 3. Setting dates in stone without deciding on what script you're gonna shoot is just plain dumb.
Complaining that Alien scared you is dumb because you should be aware of what genre the film is before you see it. It's horror, expect to be scared, etc...
Complaining that Alien 3 killed two characters we spent a whole other movie getting to know is merely expressing disappointment with a creative choice that wasn't necessarily
the best one. Especially wherein Newt is concerned. It goes against most of what the previous film was about and in a bad way. Ripley's self sacrifice at the end of the film grows from the themes, not just of Alien 3, but of the series as a whole, including tying back into the companies very cold hearted interest in the specimen from the first film. Hicks and Newt weren't killed to set a dark tone. They were killed because they were seen as an obstacle to the plot that they were trying to go for.
Saying it's depressing and therefor bad is dumb because it's meant to be depressing. Which is what a lot of people are saying.
It only works because of the previous film, because the previous film set up the idea that maybe you can Rambo your way out of a hellish situation. Third one starts by showing you can get out, but that doesn't mean you're safe. If we hadn't spent two hours watching Ripley and Newt attach to each other, tearing them apart would have been emotionally void.
Ripley tried so hard and succeeded, only to have everything torn away. It absolutely ties into her decision to sacrifice herself at the end -- what's taking the chance to maybe save herself going to achieve? f**k all. She might live, but for what? So the Company can keep being shit and bad things can keep happening to her and others? f**k that, she has a choice to change things and she takes it. And losing Newt plays into that.
It's horror, expect for people to die. It's horror, expect for bad things to happen to good people. It's horror, expect horror.
If a movie's going to unceremoniously drown a nine-year-old in the first five minutes, no-one's safe. Pretty sure that sets a tone.
As for Hicks, he'd run his course before Aliens had even reached its closing credits. He could've died in the elevator and the last act wouldn't be appreciably different. Why Cameron didn't keep his original ending with Hicks dying, I don't know.
I could kick someone in the balls and tell them "Hey, it's supposed to hurt, that's the point" Doubt that would make them appreciate what I did.
Comparing Alien 3 to a kick in the balls proves what a badass movie it is. :laugh:
Quote from: Kelgaard on Feb 15, 2015, 11:12:03 AM
I could kick someone in the balls and tell them "Hey, it's supposed to hurt, that's the point" Doubt that would make them appreciate what I did.
A kick in the nuts isn't a piece of fiction you didn't write.
QuoteHicks and Newt weren't killed to set a dark tone. They were killed because they were seen as an obstacle to the plot that they were trying to go for.
This right here. I seriously doubt their deaths were meant to teach us some profound lesson about the unfairness of life.
Quote from: Kelgaard on Feb 15, 2015, 11:40:39 AM
profound lesson about the unfairness of life.
That is Act 1.
If that
is the lesson, then I find it condescending. I'm well aware that unexpected tragedy looms out there for all of us. I don't need to be told that by my escapist entertainment.
Quote from: Alien³ on Feb 15, 2015, 11:19:14 AM
Comparing Alien 3 to a kick in the balls proves what a badcheap ass movie it is. :laugh:
Fixed. ;D
Quote from: SiL on Feb 15, 2015, 11:25:59 AM
A kick in the nuts isn't a piece of fiction you didn't write.
Doesn't change my point so I agree!
Quote from: SiL on Feb 15, 2015, 04:54:05 AMSaying it's depressing and therefor bad is dumb because it's meant to be depressing. Which is what a lot of people are saying.
Yeah, this. Saying you don't like the movie because it's depressing is absolutely fair enough. That's your right. But saying it's
bad because it's depressing is missing the point. Depressing movies can still be engaging films. Look at
Se7en - I don't think anyone's ever said that's shit because it's so damn bleak and miserable.
Alien 3 clearly has faults, but its being depressing isn't one of them.
I never missed the fact that the movie is supposed to have a depressing tone. I just don't think it has anything else going for it. And the fact that it's "supposed" to be depressing doesn't make it immune from criticism on that point.
Like I said, it's your right to dislike it because it's depressing, but simply being depressing is not automatically a negative thing.
Quote from: Kelgaard on Feb 15, 2015, 01:13:46 PMI just don't think it has anything else going for it.
Beautiful cinematography, the magnificent funeral and Ripley death scenes, the best score in the entire franchise, a stellar performance from Weaver (arguably her best), a neat twist on the Alien creature...
That's not to say there aren't blatant problems, but it has a
lot going for it.
I'd be more than happy to see Alien Resurrection and the AvPs retconned out of the series but touching Alien, Aliens or Alien 3 is sacrilege!
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 15, 2015, 01:28:52 PM
Like I said, it's your right to dislike it because it's depressing, but simply being depressing is not automatically a negative thing.
Quote from: Kelgaard on Feb 15, 2015, 01:13:46 PMI just don't think it has anything else going for it.
Beautiful cinematography, the magnificent funeral and Ripley death scenes, the best score in the entire franchise, a stellar performance from Weaver (arguably her best), a neat twist on the Alien creature...
That's not to say there aren't blatant problems, but it has a lot going for it.
Alien 3 gets too much hate, especially when there are other films more deserving of it...
I will be first to say Alien 3 is not my favorite but I loved the gritty atmosphere of it, the hopelessness theme, how it shows you that reality ensures, that the good guys can die, anyone can, Clemen's death surprised me. I thought he would last longer.
I like the twist on the Alien as well, it shows how adaptive they are, I think this film would have been better received if another film was made before it, Cameron set the bar too high I think, so anything else after it would have seemed bad in comparison, especially when the intro kills off characters the audience grew to love, so I think there is bitterness involved which influenced the reception.
I actually think Alien 3 is an excellent film. But it's an excellent film as a stand alone. I mean, if you were to start watching the Alien series from film 3, I think you would think that it is one badass film. Its the fact that the Aliens film had so much emotional baggage attached to it that made Alien 3 so indigestible. I mean Aliens basically had a fairy tale ending like "and they lived happily ever after". So Alien 3 just demeans the emotional investment that the viewers made into the characters and the story. Does that make Alien 3 a bad film? There will never be a consensus on this.
There was an author who once wrote a great tale about a young man who pursued an haughty and unattainable woman. After all of the trials and tribulations, she finally realized what a great guy he was and she accepted him. In turn, he wished her well and went off on his way alone. But after a reader invested himself so much emotionally into that story professed to being not happy with the sad ending, the author changed the ending and its implied that they reconnected. That author was Charles Dickens, and that story was Great Expectations. Which version was better? Modern literary criticism is split over the matter.
Exactly, that is what I mean, Aliens raised the bar and got people get expecting the same from a sequel, when it didn't deliver in the way they hoped, bitterness ensued.
The man wishing her well sounds good, its like he realized doing all that just for someone's affection is not worth it, kind of realistic to me.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Feb 15, 2015, 09:02:22 PMExactly, that is what I mean, Aliens raised the bar and got people get expecting the same from a sequel, when it didn't deliver in the way they hoped, bitterness ensued.
Personally, the fact they went another way with it is my favourite thing about the third film. It's like how the second film was tonally so different from the first. They didn't just mindlessly retread the same territory, but, for better or worse, tried something different.
Alien 3 was a complete train wreck. Some beautiful cinematography and a decent score, but still a train wreck. Crap CGI, characters that nobody gave a toss about, huge plot holes and of course the moronic decision to kill off or doom everyone who survived Aliens in the opening credits. Obviously, you couldn't have an Alien 3 without something going awry after the end of Aliens, but there were so many other directions they could have gone which would have been far better than what they went with.
Alien Resurrection was undeniably bollocks, but I fail to see how it could have been anything else considering it's predecessor had left the series with nowhere to go. Retconning those two films from existence is the only way to go...
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 15, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Crap CGI,
Alien3 is going to be 23 years old this May, and people still don't know that it's a suit and a puppet.
The only CGI is used for the cracks on the Alien's dome at the end.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Feb 15, 2015, 09:43:27 PM
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 15, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Crap CGI,
Alien3 is going to be 23 years old this May, and people still don't know that it's a suit and a puppet.
The only CGI is used for the cracks on the Alien's dome at the end.
Whatever it was, it looked f***ing awful for most of the film. Most noticeably in the leadworks scenes. Sadly not the worst thing about the film by a long shot...
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 15, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Alien Resurrection was undeniably bollocks, but I fail to see how it could have been anything else considering it's predecessor had left the series with nowhere to go. Retconning those two films from existence is the only way to go...
Ditching Weaver would have been a nice start. And Alien 3 did leave some threads dangling if they really wanted to make a fourth. Instead of Ripley's blood samples, just say they found the facehugger's carcass and cloned the aliens from that.
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 15, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Alien 3 was a complete train wreck. Some beautiful cinematography and a decent score, but still a train wreck. Crap CGI, characters that nobody gave a toss about, huge plot holes and of course the moronic decision to kill off or doom everyone who survived Aliens in the opening credits. Obviously, you couldn't have an Alien 3 without something going awry after the end of Aliens, but there were so many other directions they could have gone which would have been far better than what they went with.
Your rightfully given opinion aside, the characters were not immemorable in my own opinion, Dillion, Morse, Clemens spring to mind, speaking for myself here but when I first watched it, I never expected Clemens to bite it that soon or at all maybe, he was second on the credits after all and seemed like a main character, well saying that, shouldn't rely on credits since Dallas bit it as well. As for plot holes, only two spring to mind right now, the egg and the one facehugger = two hosts, the latter was solved by it being a queen facehugger capable of implanting two embryos into two different hosts, one a queen and the other a soldier to protect it.
Its true there were different directions, though a wooden planet is pushing it a bit and Fox wasn't helping matters.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 15, 2015, 09:58:08 PM
Ditching Weaver would have been a nice start. And Alien 3 did leave some threads dangling if they really wanted to make a fourth. Instead of Ripley's blood samples, just say they found the facehugger's carcass and cloned the aliens from that.
I agree, the franchise could have continued after Weaver, in fact that was the original plan, Hicks was to be the new protagonist.
As for the Facehugger, hmm not bad idea especially considering that said facehugger was a queen carrier and could start an infestation but never really been comfortable with the cloning storyline.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 15, 2015, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 15, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Alien Resurrection was undeniably bollocks, but I fail to see how it could have been anything else considering it's predecessor had left the series with nowhere to go. Retconning those two films from existence is the only way to go...
Ditching Weaver would have been a nice start. And Alien 3 did leave some threads dangling if they really wanted to make a fourth. Instead of Ripley's blood samples, just say they found the facehugger's carcass and cloned the aliens from that.
Honestly not a fan of the whole cloning thing although, other than continuing with an all new cast, it was the only way they could go. Would have been far better imo to have Aliens' happy ending taken away from Ripley and co by having something happen to separate them. Could have had some sort of malfunction on the Sulaco or some WY shenanigans involved. You'd then have Ripley trying to track down Hicks and co leading to another encounter with the Xeno's (perhaps WY force Hicks to lead an expedition to another planet inhabited by Xeno's?). Or maybe Ripley and Newt do get their "happy ending" and the series continues with Hicks as the main protagonist. Just spit-balling really but 20+ years on, it still amazes me how badly wrong they got it with Alien 3....
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 15, 2015, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Feb 15, 2015, 09:02:22 PMExactly, that is what I mean, Aliens raised the bar and got people get expecting the same from a sequel, when it didn't deliver in the way they hoped, bitterness ensued.
Personally, the fact they went another way with it is my favourite thing about the third film. It's like how the second film was tonally so different from the first. They didn't just mindlessly retread the same territory, but, for better or worse, tried something different.
Well, as I said, I really do like Alien 3. I do recognize what they were going for. But its kind of as if Return of the Jedi went off on a completely different tangent. Imagine that movie started with the death of Han Solo, and Princess Leia and culminated with the death of Luke Skywalker? Its a very post-modern take, but one can understand how it left a lot of people unsatisfied and basically damaged the momentum of the story for future sequels.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 15, 2015, 11:32:33 PMBut its kind of as if Return of the Jedi went off on a completely different tangent. Imagine that movie started with the death of Han Solo, and Princess Leia and culminated with the death of Luke Skywalker?
I'm not sure that's an accurate comparison... We only had one film with Hicks and Newt, not two. They weren't yet as secure in the franchise as the Star Wars characters were by the end of the second entry. If
Empire Strikes Back had done that it would be comparable, and to be honest it would probably fit with the tone of that film, because it's really dark.
Maybe Lando being killed at the start of
Return of the Jedi would be more accurate.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 16, 2015, 08:47:42 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 15, 2015, 11:32:33 PMBut its kind of as if Return of the Jedi went off on a completely different tangent. Imagine that movie started with the death of Han Solo, and Princess Leia and culminated with the death of Luke Skywalker?
I'm not sure that's an accurate comparison... We only had one film with Hicks and Newt, not two. They weren't yet as secure in the franchise as the Star Wars characters were by the end of the second entry. If Empire Strikes Back had done that it would be comparable, and to be honest it would probably fit with the tone of that film, because it's really dark.
Maybe Lando being killed at the start of Return of the Jedi would be more accurate.
I think the two franchises are vastly different. Star wars is not a horror franchise nor does it try much to be realistic. Both are sci-fi but the alien franchise flows much more naturally than star wars and bad things happen naturally. In star wars there's the force; in alien there's nothing.
I feel if they have to have Weaver in the movie then they have no choice but to make it a sequel to A|R. Both hicks and newt are dead and personally I'm tired of zombie movies.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 15, 2015, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 15, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Alien Resurrection was undeniably bollocks, but I fail to see how it could have been anything else considering it's predecessor had left the series with nowhere to go. Retconning those two films from existence is the only way to go...
Ditching Weaver would have been a nice start. And Alien 3 did leave some threads dangling if they really wanted to make a fourth. Instead of Ripley's blood samples, just say they found the facehugger's carcass and cloned the aliens from that.
I really liked the idea of Morse captalizing on his experience. Or maybe it could have returned to Alien a little bit and it turned out the Runner had eggmorphed someone and Michael Bishop found it when they were closing the facility.
If Star Wars got the Alien 3 treatment...
In the opening scene, we'd see a stormtrooper sneaking around the Milleneum Falcon. He'd sabotage the ship, causing it to crash. Han, Leia, and Chewbacca would all be dead, the droids smashed hopelessly beyond repair. Luke would later revive R2D2 just long enough to ask him WAS there a stormtrooper on board instead of the obvious HOW did a stormtrooper get there in the first place.
The rest of the film would be a boring but pretty slog until Luke finally decides to sacrifice himself because of dark midichlorians growing inside him , only his sacrifice is undermined by the fact he is doomed anyway and there's no one around to appreciate it.
Fans would praise the film as a masterpiece, thanking GOD himself that it wasn't just another dumb action flick. The stormtroopers are threatening again! Not just cannon fodder! The series is back on track after the previous film ruined it with that stupid lightsaber battle! They'd berate other fans for complaining about the deaths of their beloved characters, with all the courage that comes with internet anonymity. They're dead! Move the f**k on! Han served his purpose! Leia was sooo annoying, because she's a girl. You're not supposed to like it. Get over it!
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 16, 2015, 01:33:09 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 15, 2015, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 15, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Alien Resurrection was undeniably bollocks, but I fail to see how it could have been anything else considering it's predecessor had left the series with nowhere to go. Retconning those two films from existence is the only way to go...
Ditching Weaver would have been a nice start. And Alien 3 did leave some threads dangling if they really wanted to make a fourth. Instead of Ripley's blood samples, just say they found the facehugger's carcass and cloned the aliens from that.
I really liked the idea of Morse captalizing on his experience. Or maybe it could have returned to Alien a little bit and it turned out the Runner had eggmorphed someone and Michael Bishop found it when they were closing the facility.
That too. There were a multitude of better potential alternatives to cloning Ripley's blood. Although, I wouldn't want to see the alien get loose on the Patna. I'd much rather see a theatrical realization of a lot Mark Verheiden's best ideas.
This is why I don't agree with A|R, there are so many other possibities such as the derelict or other planets and so on, yet they chose to go down the ridicules path that crossed the science fiction line into borderline supernatural, just to have "Ripley" in it, I love Signourney as much as the next fan but her storyline was over in Alien 3, let the character rest along with substitutes. You don't need a Ripley to make an Alien film.
One thing I noticed recently is that Ripley and her decendants are shoehorned into stuff. Ripley and Ash did not need to be in Out of Shadows, Decker storyline was unbelievable, a psychic? :P may as well change the genre to supernatural now.
When Alien: Isolation was announced along with the protagonist, I was originally thought the same about Amanda, that it was another stupid move but I was pleasantly suprised with both the character and storyline, its realistic, trying to find out what happened to your parent, that would make most go out and search or investigate.
Gavin singleton
Snorks
You got it right !!
Credit where credit is due !!
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 16, 2015, 10:26:33 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 16, 2015, 01:33:09 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 15, 2015, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: Rankles75 on Feb 15, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Alien Resurrection was undeniably bollocks, but I fail to see how it could have been anything else considering it's predecessor had left the series with nowhere to go. Retconning those two films from existence is the only way to go...
Ditching Weaver would have been a nice start. And Alien 3 did leave some threads dangling if they really wanted to make a fourth. Instead of Ripley's blood samples, just say they found the facehugger's carcass and cloned the aliens from that.
I really liked the idea of Morse captalizing on his experience. Or maybe it could have returned to Alien a little bit and it turned out the Runner had eggmorphed someone and Michael Bishop found it when they were closing the facility.
That too. There were a multitude of better potential alternatives to cloning Ripley's blood. Although, I wouldn't want to see the alien get loose on the Patna. I'd much rather see a theatrical realization of a lot Mark Verheiden's best ideas.
Yes Verheiden's early graphic novels were to me still the best possible stories for the series. And then in the end, everything could come together full circle, where we finally have the characters of the Aliens series square off against the Engineers...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 23, 2015, 07:39:21 PMYes Verheiden's early graphic novels were to me still the best possible stories for the series. And then in the end, everything could come together full circle, where we finally have the characters of the Aliens series square off against the Engineers...
I honestly don't get the overwhelming love for those stories. I thought the starting off point was great, but it rapidly got silly and very fan-fictiony. Granted I've only ever read summaries of what happens, not the comics themselves, but still.
Ok I can see where this is going.
I suggest we all retract from any future online, in print or in person conversations, about the possibility of there being a retcon until there is some official announcement.
I'm doing this starting now, because I remember all the BS 'Is it or isn't it a Prequel' crap that surrounded PROMETHEUS for so long and I don't want to relive that for the next two years!!!
Please, lets all stop talking about this NOW before we have to deal with it becoming some hype-conversation surrounding this movie. I don't care which side of the fence you are on. Let's just agree to shut up about it before this gets worse and before there is some official info or announcement.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 23, 2015, 07:47:20 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 23, 2015, 07:39:21 PMYes Verheiden's early graphic novels were to me still the best possible stories for the series. And then in the end, everything could come together full circle, where we finally have the characters of the Aliens series square off against the Engineers...
I honestly don't get the overwhelming love for those stories. I thought the starting off point was great, but it rapidly got silly and very fan-fictiony. Granted I've only ever read summaries of what happens, not the comics themselves, but still.
They went down hill as soon as Ripley showed up.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 23, 2015, 07:47:20 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 23, 2015, 07:39:21 PMYes Verheiden's early graphic novels were to me still the best possible stories for the series. And then in the end, everything could come together full circle, where we finally have the characters of the Aliens series square off against the Engineers...
I honestly don't get the overwhelming love for those stories. I thought the starting off point was great, but it rapidly got silly and very fan-fictiony. Granted I've only ever read summaries of what happens, not the comics themselves, but still.
OMG HuDaFuk! You have got to read those. I was trying to understand for the life of me why you're so set against the idea of Hicks and Newt and Ripley coming back. I think a large part of why I want this to happen is because my introduction to the Aliens universe started in 1986 after the second film, and then that was followed up with the initial Dark Horse stories. So my attachment to those characters stems from there. Trust me, the initial run of 3 graphic novels was not lame. Verheiden's writing was very dark and perfectly cynical. But you can only pick up these nuances by reading the graphic novels, not their reviews. Verheiden truly understood the Alien mythos. I think the Aliens series from Dark Horse went off the rails as soon as Verheiden stopped writing. We were left with comical vignettes that have nothing to do with the main story. Anyway, the first 3 series of graphic novels set up the core of an EU that many fans truly embraced. Alien 3 did away with all of that. Dark Horse tried to retcon the series of books to make them still work in a post-Alien 3 world, but that effort fell flat. Hicks became Wilks. Newt became Billie. So if you are thinking of giving these books a read, I recommend you get the original versions entitled as follows:
Aliens: Book one
Aliens: Book two
Aliens: Earth War
I would avoid anything that has the Wilks / Billie retcon in them. That includes the novelizations. They were also calling Hicks as Wilks which was just lame.
All I am saying is that if you ever want to truly understand why so many fans want to bring back Hicks, I think it is largely because of these graphic novels. I can't recommend them highly enough. Book one captures the moody feel of Alien (it is best read in Black & White). Book two precisely captures the look and style of Aliens. Aliens Earth War becomes a little strange artistically, and while it is to me the weakest of the series, it does tie up the story reasonably well.
(The main point of difference with the post-Prometheus canonical reality is that the Space Jockeys were really Elephant-nosed aliens in these books, but you can overlook that)
Retconning and rebooting a franchise is lazy and unimaginative and completely cheapens and waters down the brand and it's concept(s) and contents. Especially when it comes to movies.
Doesn't matter if it is Batman, Terminator, Superman or in this case Alien.
Hopefully A5 will make due and continue where A:R ended, with or without Ripley 8. Despite A:R's flaws I'm still interested in seeing what happens next.
Alien 3 already retconned the fantastic Aliens series that was done in comic format by Verheiden. In 1988, it was simply technologically impossible to tell that story, but with today's technology, all things considered, Verheiden's story would have blown away Alien 3 by a wide margin. The Aliens series would have been on par with Star Wars.
Alien 3 was a cash grab for Fox. I still love the movie, but I am ok with retconning it and telling a different tale...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 23, 2015, 09:08:25 PM
Alien 3 already retconned the fantastic Aliens series that was done in comic format by Verheiden.
Excuse me, but that is a ludicrous claim. Alien(s) is by default a MOVIE franchise, and thus comics/games/novels will always take the back seat in favor of future movie sequels, ergo A3 didn't retcon anything - it took up where ALIENS left.
Aliens comics series fantastic? They were pretty cheesy.
QuoteIn 1988, it was simply technologically impossible to tell that story, but with today's technology, all things considered
A3 was made, Verheiden's crap-fest wasn't.
QuoteVerheiden's story would have blown away Alien 3 by a wide margin.
Let's agree that we strongly disagree on this one.
QuoteThe Aliens series would have been on par with Star Wars.
Is that a good or bad thing?
QuoteAlien 3 was a cash grab for Fox.
How was it more of a cash grab than anything else in the Alien franchise? A cash grab would've been making ALIENS 2 - now that's a cash grab!
QuoteI still love the movie,
Really doesn't sound like it...
Quotebut I am ok with retconning it and telling a different tale...
Why?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 23, 2015, 07:47:20 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 23, 2015, 07:39:21 PMYes Verheiden's early graphic novels were to me still the best possible stories for the series. And then in the end, everything could come together full circle, where we finally have the characters of the Aliens series square off against the Engineers...
I honestly don't get the overwhelming love for those stories. I thought the starting off point was great, but it rapidly got silly and very fan-fictiony. Granted I've only ever read summaries of what happens, not the comics themselves, but still.
You really should pick up Aliens Omnibus 1. Some very good stuff in there. Some of the comics are fantastic, some not so much. I'd recommend grabbing the Omnibus books.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 23, 2015, 08:46:29 PMOMG HuDaFuk! You have got to read those.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 24, 2015, 08:35:25 AMYou really should pick up Aliens Omnibus 1. Some very good stuff in there. Some of the comics are fantastic, some not so much. I'd recommend grabbing the Omnibus books.
I'll be honest, what I've seen just hasn't appealed to me. As I said, I really loved how it kicked off with the idea of Newt being in an asylum and Hicks being a burned-out drunk - I thought that was great. Really good way of continuing from
Aliens. But then as the story went on it rapidly got silly and completely over the top, with Aliens taking over the entire planet, big fights on the Alien home world, everyone secretly being an android and mad generals with pet Aliens. I found it all daft. I honestly don't get why it's so revered, because the storyline reads like fan fiction to me.
Like I said, I haven't actually read the comic, just summaries of it's plot, so maybe my preconception is totally wrong. But I just can't get over my feelings that the story is just ridiculous.
When you put it like that, it does sound kinda daft. But you should really read them. The only bad thing about the original trilogy is Sam Keith's artwork in Female War. Go and buy Omnibus 1 and don't read it with your mind already made up. I command it.
I think you'll find I'm next in the chain of command.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 24, 2015, 08:57:52 AM
....everyone secretly being an android and mad generals with pet Aliens. I found it all daft. I honestly don't get why it's so revered, because the storyline reads like fan fiction to me.
Like I said, I haven't actually read the comic, just summaries of it's plot, so maybe my preconception is totally wrong. But I just can't get over my feelings that the story is just ridiculous.
Nothing like Alien Resurrection then, with its mad general, pet aliens and a secret android.
The comics are a really good read and things you describe above are really well done and - in its setting - logical. The homeworld stuff is brilliant, too - and there's a great twist in there as well.
Quote from: Russ on Feb 24, 2015, 10:11:36 AMNothing like Alien Resurrection then, with its mad general, pet aliens and a secret android.
That's kind of my point.
You don't want that retconned, though?
They just took those elements from somewhere they worked really well.
Quote from: Russ on Feb 24, 2015, 11:07:29 AMYou don't want that retconned, though?
Not when there's ample opportunity and potential to simply make a film that doesn't need it to be.
Not to mention the fact
Resurrection at least gave us an interesting lead character who isn't simply a rehash of Ripley Mk I.
HuDaFuk, this is just for you. I posted some of the below text somewhere else earlier. If you ever want to read the Verheiden story and get the full effect, do not read the omnibus. The omnibus is the edit version with Wilks and Billie....
The Verheiden novels are excellent stories. Mind you, I say "stories" and not "novels". You have to decide for yourself if you are willing to read graphic novels (i.e. comic books) or just novels. If you are ok with reading graphic novels, do yourself a favor and forego the actual novels and find the original graphic novels. Keep in mind that graphic novels have come a long way in terms of maturity in recent years and the original Aliens series back in the late 80's was part of the movement that paved the way for that.
If the novels are redeeming, its because the graphic novels were so over the top, extraordinarily good. The original graphic novels were excellent and they had superb stories that are what carry the novel adaptations. The art was top notch as well for the first 2 series and then it became a bit too experimental (cartoonish / abstract) for some people's tastes (though still very good and unique by any standards). So here is a quick review of the three mentioned graphic novels and what to expect. Keep in mind that this is just my opinion.
Aliens: Book One (Earth Hive)
This story was originally written before Alien 3 came out and so it already created a different continuity than what we have with Alien 3. It is a continuity that many people prefer to the current canon which kills of Newt and Hicks, but to each his own. The original story is a compilation of the complete six issues of Aliens by Mark A. Nelson and Mark Verheiden in addition to a short 8 page Aliens story from Dark Horse Presents 24. The original artwork was black and white with a cool duotone effect which added curious shading. It followed the story of Hicks and Newt 10 years after the film Aliens. I was in grade 8 or so when these comics came out and I enjoyed them immensely. Subsequently, when Alien 3 came out, it made the events of Book One incompatible with the film canon. So what happened was a desperate retcon which changed the names of Hicks and Newt to Wilks and Billie. In my opinion: awful. This really stretched the plausibility of the story. They also added color to the series at this time, which should be a great thing, but somehow the color palette was just all over the place with crazy wild colors. These colors were vastly inconsistent with the dark brown of the first Alien film and also the rich blues of the Aliens film. The retcon also made it into the novel adaptation of the Book One. If you really want to start with the excellent stories of Mark Verheiden as your jumping on point for Aliens graphic novels, I highly recommend finding an original copy of Aliens: Book One in black and white with Hicks and Newt. (The cover is blue). The retconned version of the book is in full color and is called Aliens: Earth Hive. Since both the retconned version and the original are now essentially non-canon anyway, I highly recommend finding the original version. You will enjoy it.
Aliens: Book 2 (Nightmare Asylum)
The second graphic novel is a compilation of the 4-issue series by Mark Verheiden and Den Beauvais. Den Beauvais artwork really captured the style of the Aliens film and is exquisitely detailed in full airbrushed color. It is a real work of art. Den Beauvais went to great lengths to ensure that little details such as the bullet count on a gun was consistent from page to page, panel to panel. In my opinion, this is one of the greatest graphic novels of all time from a visual stand-point. No other artist really captured that James Cameron visual sensibility. Again, this book was retconned along the lines of book one. Do yourself a favor and find Aliens: Book Two instead of Aliens: Nightmare Asylum. The change from Hicks to Wilks is really annoying and insults the reader's intelligence IMO. The two books are otherwise identical inside. Of course, the actual novel was based on the retcon instead of the original so it made it a frustrating read for me personally (though Steve Perry carried it well)
Aliens: Earth War (Female War)
Mark Verheiden remained as the writer so the story had the same feel as the first two books, but the art of new artist Sam Kieth was much more abstract and cartoonish. Still a great read and finishes off the story started in the first two books while introducing some new "non-canon" Aliens. Again, this graphic novel suffered the same retcon fate, so I highly recommend getting Aliens: Earth War instead of Aliens: Female War. Seeing the original intent of the author makes a huge difference. Keep in mind that the retcon actually meant that some of the original pages from the series are missing! It is not just a question of some name changes.
If you do want to read all three retconned graphic novels from Dark Horse, just pick up the Aliens Omnibus volume 1. They're all in there in full color. But as I said above, they are not what the author originally intended and maybe 20% as enjoyable. I am attaching the covers of the original Graphic Novels. These versions are the true originals and vastly superior to the retcon. Enjoy!
Thank you but I've already read some of them (albeit a long time ago), and they are in no way superior to A3, in fact I found them sub-par to all the movies.
And again A3 is not a retcon since Alien(s) is a movie franchise by default. That means that any future sequel movie will always be the actual (REAL) sequel and continuation of the movie-part of the franchise no matter the popularity and canon of an ongoing series of novels/comics/stories/games.
Aliens: Labyrinth #3 was a damn fine story in its own right. I'd suggest mining that whole issue for some nightmare fuel.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 24, 2015, 08:23:49 PM
Thank you but I've already read some of them (albeit a long time ago), and they are in no way superior to A3, in fact I found them sub-par to all the movies.
You sound pretty intolerant. Your avatar would be ashamed.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 24, 2015, 08:30:15 PM
Aliens: Labyrinth #3 was a damn fine story in its own right. I'd suggest mining that whole issue for some nightmare fuel.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 24, 2015, 08:23:49 PM
Thank you but I've already read some of them (albeit a long time ago), and they are in no way superior to A3, in fact I found them sub-par to all the movies.
You sound pretty intolerant. Your avatar would be ashamed.
I sound intolerant because I don't find Verheiden's stories vastly superior to A3? How is that intolerant? Please explain
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 24, 2015, 08:23:49 PM
Thank you but I've already read some of them (albeit a long time ago), and they are in no way superior to A3, in fact I found them sub-par to all the movies.
Well certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and you are entitled to yours, though I doubt the majority of Alien fans or even just casual fans would agree with you. In its hey-day, the Verheiden Aliens series was a very hot series with plenty of critical acclaim. The only negative reviews I recall about it had to do with the long periods of time in between issues. The popularity of Verheiden's writing on Aliens as well as the Predator series was so immense that it spawned the Aliens VS. Predator franchise which this very website and forum is based on. It was the comics which created the AVP idea as we know it today so certainly the comics had a tremendous influence. The basic story of the first AVP film is highly derived from the first AVP series of comics.
And again A3 is not a retcon since Alien(s) is a movie franchise by default. That means that any future sequel movie will always be the actual (REAL) sequel and continuation of the movie-part of the franchise no matter the popularity and canon of an ongoing series of novels/comics/stories/games.
Naturally, the films will always be canon over other media in the case of the AVP franchise... until such a time as when Fox decides to change the canon which is within their bailiwick. The priority status of a certain medium over another has no bearing on what is considered a retcon. That only impacts canon. For a retcon, only the date is concerned. Of course Alien 3 is a retcon of the Verheiden series of comics, though the film naturally has the canon status. As I said above, until Fox changes their mind, which I, as well as many other people hope will happen, and soon. The AVP films have already more or less been decanonized. Canon is like, Fox's opinion man!
Again, is that a good or bad thing? The so called hey-day of the Aliens franchise produced such amounts of cheap cheese it's not even funny. Verheiden's stories mirror all that I hate about the Alien(s) franchise and the crap affiliated with it.
No, the movies will always be there, despite what FOX says. Movies are movies, man. Retconning and rebooting a movie franchise just produces multiple canons and continuities, which cheapens the franchise as a whole. It's cheap because it is lazy and opens up the floodgates to mangle the original till it's beyond watered down and turn into genetic drivel where everything goes.
So no. A3 didn't retcon anything, it's a movie sequel.
Another one with common sense. Maybe we (and franchise) aren`t doomed afterall.
I think Alien Resurrection already cheapened the franchise as a whole.
And Alien3 (as much as I love it) can't be considered a strong sequel to build off of. Not even the majority of the 18,000 Alien/Predator fans here like it. The movie required an assembly cut to even make sense, and even then it has major holes. and we're still discussing retcon explanations for events in a movie that came out in 1992. We may like it, but (as I said elsewhere) if you were financially responsible for the success of Alien 5, what would you do? I doubt you would rely on the general audience's awareness/acceptance of Alien3. Unless you just hated money.
Unfortunately sometimes as fans we latch on to something because it's not popular, spend countless hours trying to fabricate explanations, take it personally when those explanations are disputed, and rail against the audacity of the movie studio doing something new with "our" franchise. It's the crappy side of being a fan(atic).
This is just me trying to set realistic expectations of what will happen. However, if they do a movie without Ripley and Hicks, then all bets are off the table and A3 and (unfortunately) Alien Resurrection are fine.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 24, 2015, 09:00:32 PM
Again, is that a good or bad thing? The so called hey-day of the Aliens franchise produced such amounts of cheap cheese it's not even funny. Verheiden's stories mirror all that I hate about the Alien(s) franchise and the crap affiliated with it.
No, the movies will always be there, despite what FOX says. Movies are movies, man. Retconning and rebooting a movie franchise just produces multiple canons and continuities, which cheapens the franchise as a whole. It's cheap because it is lazy and opens up the floodgates to mangle the original till it's beyond watered down and turn into genetic drivel where everything goes.
So no. A3 didn't retcon anything, it's a movie sequel.
Of course it's a good thing. It's the best possible thing for the franchise other than James Cameron actually coming back to take the helm. Verheiden's epic was not cheap cheese. It would have literally been impossible to film most of those scenes back in 1988. It was a grand, and bold vision which fully explored all the right questions, such as "what happened to the derelict?". Alien 3 did not even include provisions to bring back some of the key characters. Whether that was due to monetary restrictions or some other recondite casting decision, I don't know, but what I do know that the end result was one of the most divisive films of all time. I say this over and over, I do like Alien 3, but it is good as a stand-alone film and not in the context of the grand Alien tapestry. It should have been decanonized ages ago.
The floodgates to mangle up the original have been opened by Alien 3. This film destroyed everything that was built in Aliens and failed to explore anything that was proposed with Alien. I'm increasingly of the idea that it is ok to have multiple canons and story tangents. It is along the idea of "what if?" At the end of the day, movies are fiction. A retcon is not a lie, it is just an opportunity to take a different direction in something that was obviously open-ended anyway. What is the problem? It's not like somebody is going to come over and take away your copy of Alien 3 and AR. The studio just recognizes the truth, which is that they took the series in a terrible direction in 1992 and painted themselves into a corner with what they could do with the series. The sooner we retcon Alien 3 the better. It's loooong overdue. Full retcon baby! With none of that it was all a dream nonsense.
On the contrary, only alien fans care about such things as egg placement and origins. Most of casual viewers don`t care and focus on the plot. Wanting Newt an Hicks back in butthurt in purest form. Their funeral scene is one of the most impresive in whole franchise, best you could do with their characters without getting repetitive.
Quote from: Master on Feb 24, 2015, 09:34:34 PM
On the contrary, only alien fans care about such things as egg placement and origins. Most of casual viewers don`t care and focus on the plot. Wanting Newt an Hicks back in butthurt in purest form. Their funeral scene is one of the most impresive in whole franchise, best you could do with their characters without getting repetitive.
We can agree to disagree and that's cool, but I think your approach would doom the franchise. Anyway, either position we take (yours or mine) its just a fanboy argument on both sides. The only way we'll know what an impact a retcon will have on the series is if it actually happens. We'll just have to wait and see and hope for the best. Believe me, I am very trepidant that they will screw up my favorite film series with a retcon. If handled the wrong way, a retcon can easily be a debacle. But to not do the retcon is a debacle from the get-go by definition.
Quote from: Master on Feb 24, 2015, 09:34:34 PM
On the contrary, only alien fans care about such things as egg placement and origins. Most of casual viewers don`t care and focus on the plot. Wanting Newt an Hicks back in butthurt in purest form. Their funeral scene is one of the most impresive in whole franchise, best you could do with their characters without getting repetitive.
No one outside this forum cares or even knows that there was a funeral scene in Alien3. And only Alien fans care about egg placement and origins because only Alien fans remember anything about the movie aside from
possibly "Ripley was bald."
I think the real "butthurt" here is the possibility of a movie that was poorly received and forgotten by the general public, but latched onto by the fanbase and endlessly debated and deconstructed for years to the point where we staunchly defend it, could be dismissed by FOX.
Again, I like Alien3 (it wasn't always that way). But I'm trying to remain realistic about it's chances at being rebooted out of the continuity.
Quote from: Mister Skeezler on Feb 24, 2015, 09:43:28 PM
Quote from: Master on Feb 24, 2015, 09:34:34 PM
On the contrary, only alien fans care about such things as egg placement and origins. Most of casual viewers don`t care and focus on the plot. Wanting Newt an Hicks back in butthurt in purest form. Their funeral scene is one of the most impresive in whole franchise, best you could do with their characters without getting repetitive.
No one outside this forum cares or even knows that there was a funeral scene in Alien3. And only Alien fans care about egg placement and origins because only Alien fans remember anything about the movie aside from possibly "Ripley was bald."
I think the real "butthurt" here is the possibility of a movie that was poorly received and forgotten by the general public, but latched onto by the fanbase and endlessly debated and deconstructed for years to the point where we staunchly defend it, could be dismissed by FOX.
That is exactly where the butthurt is. I think some fans have just gone hipster Serpico and forgot why they love the Alien franchise to begin with. They embraced Alien 3 and to some extent AR as some sort of post-modern films with greater meaning and subtext where there is none. Some fans actually convinced themselves A3 is better than Alien or Aliens, and they are hurting in the behind at the prospect of these films being taken out behind the shed. Anyway, to each his own, but if Fox understands what the majority of people and fans want they will retcon the s$*t out of Alien 3 and AR...
Fan or not that egg placement is noticeable as f**k. The average movie goer is smart enough to realize that.
Wanna know what majority wants? Go check out poll about retcon. You'll be surprised.
Yes, 37 of the 18,403 registered members of this forum are against a retcon. Even if it was a majority of the entire membership of this board, the majority here is a very small minority of the movie-going public. We're a bunch of Alien-obsessed fanatics who hypothesize every minute detail of these films and write essays on movies that no one else discusses. That poll is fun but useless.
3 and 4 to be retconned?!
Spoiler
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/7625a90c156c9d04ebe21e2a6b69a570/tumblr_inline_mzg9ne4p6d1rmt6v1.gif)
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Feb 24, 2015, 09:00:32 PM
Again, is that a good or bad thing? The so called hey-day of the Aliens franchise produced such amounts of cheap cheese it's not even funny. Verheiden's stories mirror all that I hate about the Alien(s) franchise and the crap affiliated with it.
No, the movies will always be there, despite what FOX says. Movies are movies, man. Retconning and rebooting a movie franchise just produces multiple canons and continuities, which cheapens the franchise as a whole. It's cheap because it is lazy and opens up the floodgates to mangle the original till it's beyond watered down and turn into genetic drivel where everything goes.
So no. A3 didn't retcon anything, it's a movie sequel.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthefuturebuzz.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2Fbill-gates-quote.jpg&hash=afeeefbd91306f0b82ec85d1966c6fd13940171e)
No, I don't think just because it's lazy it's cheap. And I don't think it necessarily means lower quality. Because, as in this situation, a quick "fix" opens up a bunch of cool story possibilities that could give us a strong script and story.
And I know that it's only a "could", but it seems Blomkamp believes it as well. From the looks of his concept art. And he managed to sell Fox on it and got things moving VERY quick. So it's something they're excited about.
I think more people should give the retcon a chance. I know some people will not entertain it at all, but until we get more info we shouldn't worry about it.
Its mind blowing and mind numbing at the same time. Some fans won't give the retcon idea a chance as if they think the Alien 3 story was somehow pre-ordained as an integral part of the story from the beginning in 1979. This is not a cohesive vision of one artist like George Lucas. This is a bunch of random drivers getting in and out of the same car and taking it for a spin. There is no reason why Neill Blomkamp can't come in and undo the mistakes that were made so that we can have an awesome ongoing Aliens franchise.
Heck in about 20 years we might even get a film with elephant-nosed Space Jockeys. So what? It's just somebody else's take on the Alien ideas.
I bet you in the future you'd still be able to buy the series in a boxed set of alternate stories. The "Halloween" series recently came out in boxed set. There are 2 or 3 retcons in there and yet they still come as one package. I don't understand what mental block prevents some people from enjoying alternate stories told by different people in a shared universe....
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 25, 2015, 01:30:49 AMIts mind blowing and mind numbing at the same time. Some fans won't give the retcon idea a chance as if they think the Alien 3 story was somehow pre-ordained as an integral part of the story from the beginning in 1979.
No, we just wholeheartedly disagree that there's a need to undo anything. It's not like the franchise has painted itself into a corner it can't get out of. There is literally
no need whatsoever to produce a retcon, as there is still endless potential for the franchise to proceed without scrapping what has come before just because some people apparently
still can't get over the fact Hicks is dead.
That said, if Fox does decide to scrap the films, I hop they just outright scrap them, instead of coming up with some stupid plot point to attempt to reconcile them.
The only reason the film needs to be retconned is so it can return to having Hicks and Newt alive.
There's a whole galaxy out there behind Resurrection with plenty of space to do what they want.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 25, 2015, 08:39:38 AMThere's a whole galaxy out there behind Resurrection with plenty of space to do what they want.
Exactly.
the company is the real big bad from the alien series. surely the best course of action is to explore more about the company and reveal the backstory to the first alien - how the company knew about the derelict and why the company wants the alien so badly. i would also like to see what the world/society is like rather then just another bunch of people stuck on a ship with an alien loose.
the problem with continuing on from resurection is...where do you go? with no company what is ripleys motivation? earth is already a wasteland so it isnt about stopping the alien from gettign there.
and furthermore that idea of continuing on from a film that was met with overwhelming crticial disappointment is not really enticing. That would be like doing a direct sequel to batman and robin instead of batman begins.
my opinion:
- retcon 3 and 4 and make a direct sequel to 2
- start fresh with new characters but not a remake.
I would argue the films are all about Ripley - so far. Alien 3 closed that off. Alien Resurrection re-opened it, albeit with a different Ripley, but still. Fox think Alien is about Ripley and it shows in the latest novels too.
Quote from: JPredator on Feb 25, 2015, 11:20:38 AM- retcon 3 and 4 and make a direct sequel to 2
- start fresh with new characters but not a remake.
Thing is though, if you're going to do #2, the isn't any need for #1.
Even if you don't wanna follow the fourth film, that still leaves 200 years of unexplored history into which you could put a new film with new characters.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 25, 2015, 11:36:01 AM
I would argue the films are all about Ripley - so far. Alien 3 closed that off. Alien Resurrection re-opened it, albeit with a different Ripley, but still. Fox think Alien is about Ripley and it shows in the latest novels too.
They do indeed. I think one of the (too many to count) flaws in Resurrection is that 8 is NOT Ripley. I've been thinking a lot about James Cameron's comments at the end of the Aliens commentary when he said that "she wanted to die, have sex with an alien ... etc etc" and she got to do all of that.
I wonder if her influence on A:R had something to do with that film's failings? Maybe she insisted on some things being in there that perhaps shouldn't have been (the whole film shouldn't have been, but that's another rant for another day).
I don't know how much of that stuff is out there to be found, but I'd be interested to hear from the resident experts on that - as in how much sway she had over that particular production.
These are different times though - she's a still a big star, no doubt about that, but would she have the same pull on the creative process as she did twenty odd years ago?
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 24, 2015, 03:42:56 PMHuDaFuk, this is just for you. I posted some of the below text somewhere else earlier. If you ever want to read the Verheiden story and get the full effect, do not read the omnibus. The omnibus is the edit version with Wilks and Billie....
Forgot to respond to this, sorry, but as you made such a lengthy post I figured it would only be polite to get back to you!
I am aware of the history behind the early comics - of Hicks and Newt become Wilks and Billie etc. - it's just the story itself that I don't especially like. It's so over the top and excessive, it's worlds away from the grittier, more realistic world seen in the films (the first three at least). I just find it excessive and kind of silly. It embodies a lot of the tropes I expressly dislike about expanded universe stuff.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 25, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 24, 2015, 03:42:56 PMHuDaFuk, this is just for you. I posted some of the below text somewhere else earlier. If you ever want to read the Verheiden story and get the full effect, do not read the omnibus. The omnibus is the edit version with Wilks and Billie....
Forgot to respond to this, sorry, but as you made such a lengthy post I figured it would only be polite to get back to you!
I am aware of the history behind the early comics - of Hicks and Newt become Wilks and Billie etc. - it's just the story itself that I don't especially like. It's so over the top and excessive, it's worlds away from the grittier, more realistic world seen in the films (the first three at least). I just find it excessive and kind of silly. It embodies a lot of the tropes I expressly dislike about expanded universe stuff.
Thanks HuDaFuk. I think our mutual opinions on the retcon are both valid. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things play out. Regarding the Verheiden series, naturally it is up to you. What Corporal Hicks (I think that's who it was if I recall correctly) and I were trying to point out is that the Verheiden series is incredibly well written from panel-to-panel. The way each character is built and the witty, profound, cynical dialogue of the characters is absolutely superb and spot on for the Alien universe. Verheiden captured the bleakness of Alien / Aliens like no other author ever has IMO. That can only be appreciated from reading as opposed to from a review. Cheers!
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 25, 2015, 03:23:27 PMThanks HuDaFuk. I think our mutual opinions on the retcon are both valid. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things play out. Regarding the Verheiden series, naturally it is up to you. What Corporal Hicks (I think that's who it was if I recall correctly) and I were trying to point out is that the Verheiden series is incredibly well written from panel-to-panel. The way each character is built and the witty, profound, cynical dialogue of the characters is absolutely superb and spot on for the Alien universe. Verheiden captured the bleakness of Alien / Aliens like no other author ever has IMO. That can only be appreciated from reading as opposed to from a review. Cheers!
Sure. I have made it clear I am basing my preconceptions on a plot summary only.
Despite my reservations, I probably will track the comic down eventually. I am genuinely curious. It's just not at the top of my to-do list right now.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 25, 2015, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 25, 2015, 03:23:27 PMThanks HuDaFuk. I think our mutual opinions on the retcon are both valid. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things play out. Regarding the Verheiden series, naturally it is up to you. What Corporal Hicks (I think that's who it was if I recall correctly) and I were trying to point out is that the Verheiden series is incredibly well written from panel-to-panel. The way each character is built and the witty, profound, cynical dialogue of the characters is absolutely superb and spot on for the Alien universe. Verheiden captured the bleakness of Alien / Aliens like no other author ever has IMO. That can only be appreciated from reading as opposed to from a review. Cheers!
Sure. I have made it clear I am basing my preconceptions on a plot summary only.
Despite my reservations, I probably will track the comic down eventually. I am genuinely curious. It's just not at the top of my to-do list right now.
I actually had some money to burn so I bought all three xD
Just buy the Omnibuses. Can't go wrong with £10er for 3+ comics in a single volume.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 25, 2015, 04:30:43 PM
Just buy the Omnibuses. Can't go wrong with £10er for 3+ comics in a single volume.
I strongly disagree with you on this one Hicks. Man you do not look just like I feel ;-)
The omnibuses 2-6 can definitely be enjoyed as they are presented in the combined volumes, but volume 1 is the retcon of the original Verheiden series and it just just butchers the original story. I say if anybody wants to enjoy the original Verheiden series, buy the three original graphic novels with Hicks and Newt instead of Wilks and Billie. Aliens Omnibus Vol. 1 is nothing but a farce.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 25, 2015, 04:47:22 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 25, 2015, 04:30:43 PM
Just buy the Omnibuses. Can't go wrong with £10er for 3+ comics in a single volume.
I strongly disagree with you on this one Hicks. Man you do not look just like I feel ;-)
The omnibuses 2-6 can definitely be enjoyed as they are presented in the combined volumes, but volume 1 is the retcon of the original Verheiden series and it just just butchers the original story. I say if anybody wants to enjoy the original Verheiden series, buy the three original graphic novels with Hicks and Newt instead of Wilks and Billie. Aliens Omnibus Vol. 1 is nothing but a farce.
The Wilks/Billie retcon was a bit stupid but I honestly don't think that it's that harmful to the enjoyment of the story.
Naturally that is a valid personal opinion but...
The Verheiden series was built on people's emotional investment in the Aliens film and its main characters. This is largely why the series was so successful. Are you sure you're not subconsciously substituting Wilks and Billie for Hicks and Newt as you read this retcon? Aliens Omnibus Volume 1 IMO is the worst sort of palimpsest imaginable. It is Dark Horse's most ignominious moment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th8os-IfZhg#ws (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th8os-IfZhg#ws)
The new film will be a reboot starting after Aliens. Thread locked (you can discuss further developments in the other threads).