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I think we're long overdue for a female protagonist, who actually fight the Predator in the last act.

This poll is completely fair and not loaded passively aggressively at all.

It would put a different spin on things to have a female protagonist, that's for sure. Just as long as she's not an Anna/Isabelle clone or archetype. I've sort of had enough of those, especially the latter. If we do have a female protagonist, let her be her own character.

Quote from: darcevil on Jul 12, 2014, 09:30:51 PM
This poll is completely fair and not loaded passively aggressively at all.

Well, if anyone can think of a non-sexist reason to be opposed to protagonists of a specific gender, then I'm all ears. I can understand being opposed to the casting of specific actresses in the lead role, but women in general? That's a different story. Don't let the second option in the poll intimidate you, though. If you're not a misogynistic loser, then you surely must have sound reasoning to be opposed to female protagonists.

In my case, I prefer female protagonists, but I can enjoy male ones.

I don't care who's the protagonist as long as it's a good fkn movie.

As long as she's a badass from the start. I don't want another rip off of ripley.

A character that changes - like Ripley - over the course of the film would be preferable.  Unlike someone like Lex.

Quote from: DUB1 on Jul 12, 2014, 11:56:11 PM
In my case, I prefer female protagonists, but I can enjoy male ones.

Any reason why you have the general preference?  :)

I think Alice Braga did just fine holding her own with the boys in Predators. Given she was one of two survivors and was pretty important to bringing down the last Predator, even though she was shaking off paralysis, i'd say she did pretty damn good.

Quote from: bloodinthemud on Jul 13, 2014, 12:41:36 AM
As long as she's a badass from the start. I don't want another rip off of ripley.

Indeed. This would be my concern. With the Predator movies i've pretty much heard it said both of Glover and Brody that they just didn't measure up or come off as nearly as believable going against the Predator after Arnie's character was so badly jacked up.

From that context one has to ask themselves, if a 200+ pound slab of muscle like Dutch is turned into a whimpering, crawling-for-his-life, victim by the Predator. What's going to happen to a 140 pound warrior woman? That's really the tricky part here. The toughest male specimens in the world were almost utterly powerless against a Predator. You'd need a new spin on it to really sell it to the audience. They tried that with Royce's character by making him more about silence, stealth, speed. Gave him a chance to act as a foil for typical Predator hunting behavior. You could incorporate my idea of a near-future scenario where humans are becoming wise to Predators and start hunting them down, turning the tables. Have a Sarah Connor type who's seen them butcher her comrades and with her experience is able to track them.

Quote from: SM on Jul 13, 2014, 02:07:51 AM
A character that changes - like Ripley - over the course of the film would be preferable.  Unlike someone like Lex.

I don't think anyone was suggesting she'd be static. Just avoid the "goes from a novice to a badass" arc. There are other stories to tell.

In films like this?  Not really.

Quote from: DUB1 on Jul 12, 2014, 02:29:46 PM
I think we're long overdue for a female protagonist, who actually fight the Predator in the last act.

Nah...we had that in AvP and Requiem. I think Predator films work best with strong male leads.

Of course, there are women out there who'd give Arnold a run for his money
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Quote from: happypred on Jul 13, 2014, 12:47:39 PM

Quote from: DUB1 on Jul 12, 2014, 02:29:46 PM
I think we're long overdue for a female protagonist, who actually fight the Predator in the last act.

Nah...we had that in AvP and Requiem. I think Predator films work best with strong male leads.

Of course, there are women out there who'd give Arnold a run for his money
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"Tu face the predator ju are going tu need tu eat allot'uh shicken n' ryse."

Quote from: OpenMaw on Jul 13, 2014, 02:11:55 AM
Any reason why you have the general preference?  :)

Indeed. This would be my concern. With the Predator movies i've pretty much heard it said both of Glover and Brody that they just didn't measure up or come off as nearly as believable going against the Predator after Arnie's character was so badly jacked up.

From that context one has to ask themselves, if a 200+ pound slab of muscle like Dutch is turned into a whimpering, crawling-for-his-life, victim by the Predator. What's going to happen to a 140 pound warrior woman? That's really the tricky part here. The toughest male specimens in the world were almost utterly powerless against a Predator. You'd need a new spin on it to really sell it to the audience. They tried that with Royce's character by making him more about silence, stealth, speed. Gave him a chance to act as a foil for typical Predator hunting behavior. You could incorporate my idea of a near-future scenario where humans are becoming wise to Predators and start hunting them down, turning the tables. Have a Sarah Connor type who's seen them butcher her comrades and with her experience is able to track them.

I prefer female protagonists in part because I don't need main characters to be the same gender, race or sexual orientation as me to care about them, to relate to them, and in part because I'm a straight guy. I hope that didn't come off as sexist. I do respect women. A female protagonist can have nearly everything a male one can, plus a little more. They also tend to always be more refreshing as protagonists, since they're still less common, and in the Predator franchise, they'd be even fresher, since we're yet to have one.

Secondly, what you say about big men like Arnold being physically helpless against Predators just shows that no human, woman or man, can really hope to defeat a Predator with their bare hands anyway. So gender doesn't make much of a difference when fighting a Predator. Why couldn't a woman use her wits, traps and weapons to kill a Predator? Like Jill Valentine in Resident Evil 3, who defeated Nemesis, a creature that I consider much more powerful and durable than a Predator.

Quote from: happypred on Jul 13, 2014, 12:47:39 PM
Nah...we had that in AvP and Requiem.

Really? The female protagonists actually fought the Predators to the death? How the hell could I have missed that? Oh yeah, you must be talking about that part where Lex defeats Scar by giving it it's plasma caster back. Damn, that was one intense fight scene right there.

QuoteReally? The female protagonists actually fought the Predators to the death? How the hell could I have missed that? Oh yeah, you must be talking about that part where Lex defeats Scar by giving it it's plasma caster back. Damn, that was one intense fight scene right there.

And so with a hovering cursor above the post button and a swift click on the mouse our Straight Guy protagonist now embarks on a series of patronizing posts. What will this thread have instore?  Tune in next post on AvP Gala-xy! (Read last sentence out loud with same intonations as the epilogue narrator of Dragon Ball Z)

  No because ...

Quote from: happypred on Jul 13, 2014, 12:47:39 PM

I think Predator films work best with strong male leads.

   ...and I'm not a misogin .

Honestly, aside from Ripley, most female heroines are annoying in alien movies. It just seems so contrived. Predators did make it believable but there still was a man in the lead. That being said, I think it is about time they put a female predator on scene. Surely they exist right? Then we can find out once and for all who is in charge of the Predator species. Maybe the men are just lazy couch potatoes.

AVP Galaxy: Tumblr Edition

Retarded poll, why not just say Yes or No? If we are really talking about equality it shouldn't matter which I choose whereas this poll implies there is a right and wrong choice.

Quote from: Xenoscream on Jul 14, 2014, 02:04:11 PM
Retarded poll, why not just say Yes or No? If we are really talking about equality it shouldn't matter which I choose whereas this poll implies there is a right and wrong choice.

Retarded poll made by a retard, to some people its not about equality but about everyone else having to agree with them otherwise they must be losers.

Quote from: Ghostface on Jul 12, 2014, 11:58:37 PM
I don't care who's the protagonist as long as it's a good fkn movie.

This.

If she's believable, I'm in. They would have to get a really good actress.

It depends on the sort of action they want.  If Arnie gets beaten up by a Predator, it's silly to expect a woman to go toe-to-toe physically with a Predator.  If that isn't an issue, then there's no reason you couldn't have a woman in the lead role.

Mind you, no matter how the woman wins, you'll get complaints from the guys who dig big glistening muscles (in a totally hetero way) whining that the Predator has been emasculated (once they look up the meaning of emasculated).

Quote from: SM on Jul 14, 2014, 10:02:49 PM
It depends on the sort of action they want.  If Arnie gets beaten up by a Predator, it's silly to expect a woman to go toe-to-toe physically with a Predator.  If that isn't an issue, then there's no reason you couldn't have a woman in the lead role.

Mind you, no matter how the woman wins, you'll get complaints from the guys who dig big glistening muscles (in a totally hetero way) whining that the Predator has been emasculated (once they look up the meaning of emasculated).

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QuoteThat Got dang Predator will look like a sissy I tell ye'hwat!

Quote from: SM on Jul 14, 2014, 10:02:49 PM
Mind you, no matter how the woman wins, you'll get complaints from the guys who dig big glistening muscles (in a totally hetero way) whining that the Predator has been emasculated (once they look up the meaning of emasculated).

These guys can always try and convince themselves that the Predator who lost to the woman was also female.

And hell, it's not like we can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Predators we've seen were indeed male. I'd love to see how those guys would react if every Predators that we know of were revealed to have been female ones.

Quote from: SM on Jul 14, 2014, 10:02:49 PM
It depends on the sort of action they want.  If Arnie gets beaten up by a Predator, it's silly to expect a woman to go toe-to-toe physically with a Predator.  If that isn't an issue, then there's no reason you couldn't have a woman in the lead role.

Mind you, no matter how the woman wins, you'll get complaints from the guys who dig big glistening muscles (in a totally hetero way) whining that the Predator has been emasculated (once they look up the meaning of emasculated).

The heroine could try to outsmart the Predator, it's not need to be a completely physical confrontation.

In all honesty, if it is a straight up one on one, the human should come up on the dead end. Arnie only won because of a chance opportunity and Harrigan because that predator was stupid. In short humans win by taking advantage of opportunities as they appear, not because of what is or is not hanging between their legs.

The way I see it, you can't really do it, because it messes up the whole thematic element of the two franchises. Predator movies feature big strong men fighting vagina mouthed lizard men, and Alien features strong women fighting penis-headed rape monsters. You can't mix your film metaphors, damnit.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Jul 15, 2014, 03:35:32 AM
The way I see it, you can't really do it, because it messes up the whole thematic element of the two franchises. Predator movies feature big strong men fighting vagina mouthed lizard men, and Alien features strong women fighting penis-headed rape monsters. You can't mix your film metaphors, damnit.

^ win

Quote from: Magegg on Jul 15, 2014, 03:55:29 AM

Quote from: OpenMaw on Jul 15, 2014, 03:35:32 AM
The way I see it, you can't really do it, because it messes up the whole thematic element of the two franchises. Predator movies feature big strong men fighting vagina mouthed lizard men, and Alien features strong women fighting penis-headed rape monsters. You can't mix your film metaphors, damnit.

^ win

Can't argue with that.

Although what ever would a guy do with a vagina mouth...

It really depends what they want to do with the story. If they're going for the normal formula then no, it probably wouldn't work. Yes, there can be woman as big and strong as Arnie but I really don't think Fox would think it'd suit the demographic.

However, if they tried something different involving smarts then maybe because physical size wouldn't be an issue but that might be too much an issue for the fans if it moved away from the formulaic Predator approach. But, we've had female main characters in the films so that's not really anything new.

I say yes, but they lose to the predator and get skinned alive and show it onscreen and then some meathead is the main protagonist, like in the friday the 13th remake where the beginning is everyone 'dying'

A human male or female will never match a predator physically, their key to victory is wit, strategy etc and a good lead can convincingly utilise these skills regardless of gender.

What I would prefer to see is someone who has the confidence and resourcefullness to convincingly take on a predator from the start rather then uncover these hidden traits out of necessity later in the movie. A predator should not be taken out by a cornered survivor but a hardened battle tested warrior imo.

So just copy the first film?

Quote from: whiterabbit on Jul 13, 2014, 08:50:03 PM
Honestly, aside from Ripley, most female heroines are annoying in alien movies.

That's usually because they're being written by guys who interpret them as prone-to-being-scared, less physically capable men.

Buffy Summers? Vast improvement in her television show incarnation. Sarah Connor? Absolutely. We could also say Jamie Lee Curtis in 'Virus' and so on. None of them are annoying when they're written/interpreted well - just like a male character.

QuoteIt just seems so contrived. Predators did make it believable but there still was a man in the lead.

And the way she was paralysed to effectively remove her from taking part in the action was, well... Contrived, yes?

Personally, I liked 'Predators', but it seems odd to complain about that and then use an example of it. :)

QuoteThat being said, I think it is about time they put a female predator on scene. Surely they exist right?

How do you know the ones we've already seen aren't all female - or that they even have more than one gender?

All good points Xenomorphine. So the solution to all of our problems is simple, a female director is what's needed. :)

No wimminz in mah muscle men movies!!11!

There hasn't been much muscles in movies since the 80's.

Dis neez to get bck to da rootz - no chickz aloud lol

Quote from: whiterabbit on Jul 29, 2014, 03:49:10 AM
All good points Xenomorphine. So the solution to all of our problems is simple, a female director is what's needed. :)

Lexi Alexander?

You can't really win. Have a man and it's the same as what's come before, have a woman and it'll probably feel like you're having a woman just for the sake of it.

You know what guys, I'm not even going to try and lie. I don't even know a single female director. I know that they exist but could not name a single one.

No, the idea of having a female director is that if you are going to go with a female lead perhaps a female director could make it actually work better than most dudes can.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Jul 29, 2014, 11:18:17 AMNo, the idea of having a female director is that if you are going to go with a female lead perhaps a female director could make it actually work better than most dudes can.

No it isn't. Kathryn Bigelow made Point Break. That has an almost entirely male cast.

Aliens was made by a bloke and has an incredibly strong female lead character.

If the director's good and in touch with the production it does't matter what sex they are.

I said most. :P

Joking aside it was just a suggestion.

True, but I'm pretty happy with Shane Black!

Quote from: whiterabbit on Jul 29, 2014, 11:18:17 AM
You know what guys, I'm not even going to try and lie. I don't even know a single female director. I know that they exist but could not name a single one.

How about Lana Wachowski white rabbit?  :laugh:

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 29, 2014, 11:04:21 AM
You can't really win. Have a man and it's the same as what's come before, have a woman and it'll probably feel like you're having a woman just for the sake of it.

That's like homosexual and ethnic minority characters, though.

I remember the writers of that 'Battlestar Galactica' remake kept protesting that they couldn't have a gay character, because they felt obligated to write the entire episode's story revolving around one, if they did. I just kind of sighed and shook my head, back when I read that, because I thought the obvious solution was to simply include the character and not make a big deal about it. Just mention their sexuality in a casual way - if at all.

Then, later, they made 'Razor' and did exactly that: A casual demonstration, almost blink-and-you-miss-it, which didn't intrude much at all on the story.

Actually, it's worth remembering that Ripley, in 'Alien', was originally written as a male character. To the viewer, her gender is almost irrelevant in the first film. It's probably that the Alien is typically represented as skeletal, while the Predator is usually portrayed as muscular, which plays into most viewers' expectations, but both creatures are fully capable of tearing a grown man to pieces. If a woman can repeatedly face off against the Alien, then a woman can face off against a Predator, too.

QuoteAliens was made by a bloke and has an incredibly strong female lead character.

Who required a man to reach her full potential.

Quote from: SM on Jul 30, 2014, 03:16:29 AM

QuoteAliens was made by a bloke and has an incredibly strong female lead character.

Who required a man to reach her full potential.

Are you talking about character or actor?

Quote from: DUB1 on Jul 12, 2014, 02:29:46 PM
I think we're long overdue for a female protagonist, who actually fight the Predator in the last act.

how about a female protagonist fighting a female predator that ends with a pillow fight in a pool full of jello

i do not want a female in the predator movie because if she fought the predator she will die quicker then boys.

Quote from: predalien100 on Nov 26, 2014, 02:44:44 PM
i do not want a female in the predator movie because if she fought the predator she will die quicker then boys.

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No for me.

No thanks.

Meh I prefer to have a male lead role take on a predator but that's just me. Don't think that makes me a misogynist though since people just love to throw that word around these days at others who would dare have their own preference and not have the same outlook as they do.

Every single Hollywood movie there HAS to be a women and some kissing and maybe sex.Predator was unique(and The Thing)I wish it stays that way Predators had a lead female character but thank god there was no romance.Not being sexist just saying that predators style should stay the same(now the MOD wants female soldiers in the UK army)

The only thing that really matters is if whoever they pick for the lead, whether they be male or female, is the epitome of badass. Arnold was great in Predator, not because he was a man, but because he was a total badass. If the person they pick does happen to be a female, it doesn't really matter, as long as she is a commanding presence, and convinces the audience that she could in fact take on a Yautja, and maybe beat it. I really wasn't a fan of Isabelle in Predators, but that wasn't because she was a woman- it was because she wasn't really that intimidating. But along with that, I also didn't find Royce convincing or really all that badass, and he was a man. Plus, as we've seen with the Alien series, a female lead works perfectly fine.

That being said, I don't want a female Yautja in The Predator. Not that it wouldn't be interesting, it's just the fact that the gender of the Predator has absolutely no bearing on the story, and to be honest, would look kind of weird.

Quote from: SM on Jul 30, 2014, 03:16:29 AM

QuoteAliens was made by a bloke and has an incredibly strong female lead character.

Who required a man to reach her full potential.

To learn how to pull a trigger - she already came with the balls  :laugh:

Quote from: OpenMaw on Jul 15, 2014, 03:35:32 AM
The way I see it, you can't really do it, because it messes up the whole thematic element of the two franchises. Predator movies feature big strong men fighting vagina mouthed lizard men, and Alien features strong women fighting penis-headed rape monsters. You can't mix your film metaphors, damnit.

Done. *slow clap*

Should add a fourth option for "As long as the protagonist is well written gender don't matter".
This thread reeks of...
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Quote from: draken161 on Mar 10, 2016, 11:28:26 AM
Should add a fourth option for "As long as the protagonist is well written gender don't matter".

Ultimately this is what it should come down to. I think there's just a general view of Predator being a "masculine" franchise. As long as it's a good lead, I couldn't give a rats.

True but there are actors I'd love to see in new Predator like Vin Diesel, Karl Urban and Dwayne Johnson.

A strong, male lead for me.

It just works better with the Predator, and i imagine a woman getting it's ass kicked by a Predator in a fist fight just wouldn't look right to me.

I'm all good with emancipation and stuff, but this isn't for the Ladys.

Honestly I think it would be cool just to keep the themes the way they've been for each franchise. Alien has strong female lead. Predator has strong male lead. Don't deviate. The more FOX "tries new things" or "switches things up," the bigger the potential for the movies to fail, budget wasted, and the franchise loses respect and gets shelved for another 15 years.

Look at the success of the new Star Wars. Star Wars has always had great mix of male and female actors and the new movie stuck close to the franchise's roots and it worked. Likewise, for the Alien and Predator movies, they have each had their success. Keep to what makes them awesome and don't change up too much.

Oh God please let this one stay away from it's roots. New SW was poor copy of ANH with some bits from ROTJ, like Predators was of Predator. Nothing new nor really exciting. I don't want that.

Go crazy into new direction. Let the new films be new.

Quote from: Master on Mar 14, 2016, 08:17:22 AM
Oh God please let this one stay away from it's roots. New SW was poor copy of ANH with some bits from ROTJ, like Predators was of Predator. Nothing new nor really exciting. I don't want that.

Go crazy into new direction. Let the new films be new.

You really didn't like the new Star Wars? I'm not one to get upset over people's opinions of movies but if you didn't like the film overall, respectfully, I think you need to lower your standards and remember how to enjoy fun movies ;)

Here's the thing. Predator is highly regarded as a pop culture classic. Both "sequels" add to the franchise and lore while not being as well-received. When people think of the Predator, they think the first film because it has such an appeal to it. The trick is, how do you capture that magic that makes the first film so great while not being a carbon copy like Predators or a weak sequel like Predator 2 (and I like Predator 2)?

When you say new direction, and I know you're not speaking of the band (lol), what would you want to see that would capture the magic but be fresh enough you would be satisfied overall?   

Predators was not a carbon copy of Predator. *head explodes* It had similar beats and some (shudders) reused dialogue but it was not a carbon copy by any long stretch. That is always completely over-exaggerated.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 15, 2016, 08:37:41 AM
Predators was not a carbon copy of Predator. *head explodes* It had similar beats and some (shudders) reused dialogue but it was not a carbon copy by any long stretch. That is always completely over-exaggerated.

Yeah I think a lot of the issue is that how do you make the 'Stalking segment' different from Predator without making it seem like they're directly copying it? Apart from that, (and the reused dialogue) the movie wasn't a carbon copy of the original in any sense.

we're overdue for the a female protagonist, a good director and a good actress can pull it off.  Going through the thread, I've not read anything convincing as to why a female protagonist wouldn't work in a predator film.

If they decide on a female protagonist I'd like seeing Gwendoline Christie with a chaingun. :)

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 15, 2016, 08:37:41 AM
Predators was not a carbon copy of Predator. *head explodes* It had similar beats and some (shudders) reused dialogue but it was not a carbon copy by any long stretch. That is always completely over-exaggerated.

It's funny because I literally just listened to the Podcast about things people hate and you love, and I got a chuckle just reading your reply since one of your items was Predators! While I agree that there was a lot of wasted potential to expand the idea of hunting other-worldy creatures like the River Ghost and the movie we got was far better than the original script, personally, I find the similarities to the original, including dialogue, jungle setting and character tropes (even the weaponry) undeniable to the point of almost calling it a rip off. Like you have said before, there are so many possibilities to use the Predator story in different time periods, locations, with or without cross over with the Alien franchise. I really feel that they could have been bold and tried something new, like the Wild West or Feudal Japan or in space with no gravity!

Case and point, two fans with two different opinions. I respect yours and you respect mine. Ironically, we both like the film lol. We're off topic though.

Quote from: Topazora on Mar 15, 2016, 04:32:41 PM
we're overdue for the a female protagonist, a good director and a good actress can pull it off.  Going through the thread, I've not read anything convincing as to why a female protagonist wouldn't work in a predator film.

It's not so much why they wouldn't work, but more about keeping a running theme going. Of course a woman can play any role a man can, if the story is written that way. I really liked the dynamic that played out at the end of Predators between Royce and Isabelle. Two person team would be fun to see, especially if you got drawn in to the character's relationship only to see one get their spine ripped out!

Quote from: PRJ_since1990 on Mar 16, 2016, 01:37:30 AM

Quote from: Topazora on Mar 15, 2016, 04:32:41 PM
we're overdue for the a female protagonist, a good director and a good actress can pull it off.  Going through the thread, I've not read anything convincing as to why a female protagonist wouldn't work in a predator film.

It's not so much why they wouldn't work, but more about keeping a running theme going. Of course a woman can play any role a man can, if the story is written that way. I really liked the dynamic that played out at the end of Predators between Royce and Isabelle. Two person team would be fun to see, especially if you got drawn in to the character's relationship only to see one get their spine ripped out!

The only theme to the Predator series is that there are space hunters seeking out prized trophies out of great warriors.  How would making the protagonist a woman break the running theme?  It would actually freshen the franchise and bring more people into the fandom.

Quote from: PRJ_since1990 on Mar 15, 2016, 01:18:33 AM

Quote from: Master on Mar 14, 2016, 08:17:22 AM
Oh God please let this one stay away from it's roots. New SW was poor copy of ANH with some bits from ROTJ, like Predators was of Predator. Nothing new nor really exciting. I don't want that.

Go crazy into new direction. Let the new films be new.

You really didn't like the new Star Wars? I'm not one to get upset over people's opinions of movies but if you didn't like the film overall, respectfully, I think you need to lower your standards and remember how to enjoy fun movies ;)

  Lower my standards to what level? One where I don`t care about films plot full of holes like swiss cheese because X-wings and tie fighters? Seriously Death Star was done in ANH. In ROTJ it was done to the death and after thirty years, best thing they could come up was blowing the third one? First act on Jakku was fine after that it was only worse, to the point you have to guess why things are happening.
  What is ressistance? Why there is ressistance? What planet First Order just blew up? What is the f**king state of the Galaxy 30+ years after ROTJ? We don`t know but we have 10 minutes long, slapstick Rathar escape. That`s great right? Wrong.

TFA was medicore film. For me it was only better then AOTC.

Quote
When you say new direction, and I know you're not speaking of the band (lol), what would you want to see that would capture the magic but be fresh enough you would be satisfied overall?   

I`ve been saying that for few years now and I`ll say it again. Do a reversed scenario where Predator is being hunted by small army of very well prepared humans who are aware what they are facing. Do Predator on the run, make viwer think this army have advantage then reverse it once more First Blood style. Set it on the desert or some other place with military conflict in the background, that is not jungle, and we`ll have one great action film.