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Aliens: Colonial Marines retcons Hadley's Hope. It is a first-person shooter that scratches the 26-year old itch for Colonial Marine fans. (Like underwear sticking to your body on a hot summer day.)

Prometheus retcons the space jockey. It is a visually stunning film that leaves the audience asking for more. (Like a cold winter night with no fire.)

The community has been sharply divided by these two recent entries into the Alien franchise. How do they make you feel as a fan of the original films?


*The voting poll is not about what FOX considers canonical, but what do you personally accept as canon to the original films. It is subjective in this case.

As a fan of both ALIENS (1986 film) and ALIEN (1979 film) I can safely say neither Prometheus or A-CM are canon.

I never bought into this whole ALIENS-CM being "the true sequel" to ALIENS bs.

Its a videogame- nothing more and going by early walkthroughs on YouTube its not a very good one at that.

PS- sorry for my bland reply- but I'd rather play ALIENS- ZX Spectrum/C64 again than A-CM for the first time- and thats a compliment to the ZX title.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKq1b9CzToE# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKq1b9CzToE#)

They're both derivative fanwanks that should never have seen the light of day, and hope that I never have to experience anything as excruciatingly f**king awful as either of them ever again.

Seriously, I'd of rather had another AVP or Alien:R than Prometheus or A:CM.

Quote from: Elicas on Feb 10, 2013, 10:14:23 PM
They're both derivative fanwanks that should never have seen the light of day, and hope that I never have to experience anything as excruciatingly f**king awful as either of them ever again.

Seriously, I'd of rather had another AVP or Alien:R than Prometheus or A:CM.

I agree.

Prometheus is a god awful movie that is even worse than both AvP movies combined, one of the biggest disappointments in the history of film.

Aliens: Colonial Marines isn't quite as bad of an experience as Prometheus (not saying much), but it sure as hell isn't going to be considered canon by me that's for sure.

Alien and Aliens are still the only two that I consider to be "canon", but at least Alien 3 was well made, just a shame it tainted the conclusion of Aliens.

Quote from: Elicas on Feb 10, 2013, 10:14:23 PM
They're both derivative fanwanks that should never have seen the light of day

LOL!

What pains me is; that its not that hard to make a decent ALIEN/ALIENS/PREDATOR film.

If you dissect any of the above three titles what is the 3 elements that makes those movies?
ALIEN-
Characters
The audience could relate and care about the strengths and weaknesses of the characters. Blue collar workers in an extraordinary situation.
Setting
Seeing interesting stuff such as how we might live and work in the future (which is much further away than we think give or take your belief of space programme in reality- fake moon/Mars landings en all).
Concept
Excellent planning all around- looking at the themes of the time. Corporate greed/ethics, mistrust of technology- oh and the ALIEN itself.

PREDATOR
Characters
The best action cast ever assembled- period.
Setting
Cold war paranoia- threat of soviet invasion- post Vietnam war trauma symbolism. Men can relate to the fear of being drafted to a jungle hell-hole to be killed or much worse/
Concept
Fear of third world countries- encapsulated in the PREDATOR.

Now look at that hack job Prometheus
Characters
Pretentious crap- over-rated, unbearable "actresses" Noomi Rapace (god awful in Sherlock Holmes 2), Charlize Theron  picked only because of her looks., token black/asia guys. A bunch of Star Trek red-shirts that make the AVP cast Oscar worthy.
Their on-screen personas are just as unlikeable. A bunch of corporate morons/unethical scientists who deserved to die.

Setting
Looked just like modern day Earth and no effort to "alien-ise" the shooting location.

Concept
A pretentious piece of crap designed to appeal to trendy- latte swigging, hipsters, who visit modern art galleries, wear skinny jeans.
In fact Prometheus reminds me of modern art. Crap sold as chocolate.

Prometheus is definately canon, the question is, to what extent - well Scott calls it a prologue and plans at least one more prequel to Alien and a new Blade Runner sequel. Whats not clear is if he'll use those two to merge both narratives or do a whole seperate movie doing so.
In all my time with Alien and Blade Runner its always been considered that Blade Runner was somehow linked, just at an earlier stage - but in the Prometheus BR you see a message by P. Weyland describing Eldon Tyrell as his mentor and the differing paths they took. With synthetic lifeforms - Tyrell with genetic androids and Weyland with Robotic ones. Tyrell was into offworld colonialism and Weyland with terraforming.
Theres so much material here for such wonderful sci-fi heres hoping Fox will grow up and let Scott finish this, right up to bridging it with Alien.

Really had balanced expectations GBX would take it from A3 onwards with the games but A:CM just ended up being a fanboy statement of re-mashed Aliens sets and narrative.

Quote from: Omega1 on Feb 10, 2013, 10:23:32 PM

Quote from: Elicas on Feb 10, 2013, 10:14:23 PM
They're both derivative fanwanks that should never have seen the light of day, and hope that I never have to experience anything as excruciatingly f**king awful as either of them ever again.

Seriously, I'd of rather had another AVP or Alien:R than Prometheus or A:CM.

I agree.

Prometheus is a god awful movie that is even worse than both AvP movies combined, one of the biggest disappointments in the history of film.

Aliens: Colonial Marines isn't quite as bad of an experience as Prometheus (not saying much), but it sure as hell isn't going to be considered canon by me that's for sure.

Alien and Aliens are still the only two that I consider to be "canon", but at least Alien 3 was well made, just a shame it tainted the conclusion of Aliens.

I'm actually perfectly fine with A3, as I preferred the one xeno that pretty much can't be killed approach. The only real issues I had with A3 were that I felt Hicks would have been better served dying protecting Ripley and Newt, and that the egg really should have been shown opening inside the housing of the shuttle in the loading bay. The fact that Newt and Hicks died I've got no issue with, the way they died however, was cheap.

Quote from: Elicas on Feb 10, 2013, 10:37:02 PM

Quote from: Omega1 on Feb 10, 2013, 10:23:32 PM

Quote from: Elicas on Feb 10, 2013, 10:14:23 PM
They're both derivative fanwanks that should never have seen the light of day, and hope that I never have to experience anything as excruciatingly f**king awful as either of them ever again.

Seriously, I'd of rather had another AVP or Alien:R than Prometheus or A:CM.

I agree.

Prometheus is a god awful movie that is even worse than both AvP movies combined, one of the biggest disappointments in the history of film.

Aliens: Colonial Marines isn't quite as bad of an experience as Prometheus (not saying much), but it sure as hell isn't going to be considered canon by me that's for sure.

Alien and Aliens are still the only two that I consider to be "canon", but at least Alien 3 was well made, just a shame it tainted the conclusion of Aliens.

I'm actually perfectly fine with A3, as I preferred the one xeno that pretty much can't be killed approach. The only real issues I had with A3 were that I felt Hicks would have been better served dying protecting Ripley and Newt, and that the egg really should have been shown opening inside the housing of the shuttle in the loading bay. The fact that Newt and Hicks died I've got no issue with, the way they died however, was cheap.

Yeah it wouldn't have taken much to fix Alien 3, but even as flawed as I find the movie it still comes nowhere close to being as bad as Prometheus.

A:CM is not canon it's just a game for fun personally it needs to be a movie to be canon or it doesn't work.  Prometheus was a masterpiece in the visual department.  Prometheus is canon i don't understand how so many people can call it crap and say its an insult for crying out loud Ridley scott made the film the sam man who made alien and besides its not a direct prequel its in the same universe what happened in prometheus did not in any way affect the alien movies except maybe telling us what was in the jockey chair. Prometheus is canon and A:CM is not.

I've yet to find anything in Prometheus that would definatively excise it from the Alien continuity.

With A:CM - lol colony...

To be fair to A:CM on the colony front, the place is trashed.

Your favourite locales from Aliens are conveniently intact, by and large, but the rest is a scrapheap.

It should've been vapourised.

I'm beyond being fair to these arrogant hacks.

Both are canon.

HICKS is ALIVE bitches! :laugh:

insert deal with it gif here.

...Nah not really..  :laugh: just trolling...

Does it make Alien 3 better?

Unfortunately A:CM campaign was canonized by Fox... Its not a spinoff or what if. Aliens was bad enough, bug hunt mentality, with yehah marines. I'm ex-military those marines are pure BS. Now after seeing Blackhawk down - imagine what Aliens would've been if Ridley had've done it? None of the bullshit inconsistancies plaguing the narrative would exist.

I can also say that in 1986 when I went to the cinema to watch this people wouldn't have felt so jipped either.

People didn't feel gipped when they saw the movie.

Or jipped.

I beg to differ. I was there at the premier and loads of people expecting a sequel to Alien walked out of the theatre dissapointed. In fact anyone over 16 that wasn't male were visibly conused. No one wants to admit it but the Rambo director had put a serious spanner in the franchises works. Loads of mature movie goers were alienated and Fox took those numbers of people flocking to see the sequel to a movie not long gone cult as a sign that Aliens treatment of the canon was popular. It wasn't really. People honestly thought Fox could be trusted not to f**k up Alien by giving Cameron a go.

-edit- ok, I ask you in all honesty. Has anything been the same since? A3 was a great movie but even bringing it back to basics couldn't reign it in.

Clearly it was popular, based on the critical success, financial success, franchise success, and licensing success that Aliens directly spawned.

Some people were butthurt. Boo f**king hoo. Saying that it was unpopular, however, is as moronic as it is demonstrably false. Pull your head out. Or stop trolling. Whichever.

And Alien3 was a well shot mess.

Quote from: RaisingCanon on Feb 10, 2013, 11:18:08 PM
Does it make Alien 3 better?

No.

It makes it worse, by presuming that it needed to be made better in the first place.

That attitude tells people that FOX, via promoting A:CM as Canon and allowing Pitchford and Co to decree it as such at every opportunity, are admitting, actively or tacitly, that Alien 3 had something wrong with it. That it needed fixing. That 20 years later someone felt the need to revisit the amazing film that is Alien 3 and try to "make it a better film".

And all that does is tell people that it's worse.

Quote from: SM on Feb 10, 2013, 11:34:47 PM
And Alien3 was a well shot mess.

And Alien Resurrection was Alien Resurrection.

The franchise managed to spawn plenty that wasn't an Aliens wannabe, or grossly warped by its presentation. Stuff more like Alien, or stuff in weird and wonderfully horrific directions that few would've considered before.

That Aliens: Labyrinth exists at all -- even with its military characters -- should stand as testament to the fact that Aliens didn't ruin shit.

Quote from: SM on Feb 10, 2013, 11:34:47 PM
And Alien3 was a well shot mess.

Though still a better sequel than Aliens was. Not that I don't love Aliens of course, it's a great sci fi actioner. But it's a shitty Alien film.

Oh for God's sake.

Quote from: SiL on Feb 10, 2013, 11:32:43 PM
Clearly it was popular, based on the critical success, financial success, franchise success, and licensing success that Aliens directly spawned.

Some people were butthurt. Boo f**king hoo. Saying that it was unpopular, however, is as moronic as it is demonstrably false. Pull your head out. Or stop trolling. Whichever.

Ok well, lets agree to disagree here. I can see you've got a huge post count so you've been around for ages and rather than throw your exact same remarks back at you I'm gonna stop.

I never said it wasn't popular just that people were dissapointed they got what they thought was a war movie for teenage boys rather than a sequel to Alien. It was obviously popular as hell just not instantly and the rest of its success over many years was undoubtably due to bro-ism. Anyway thats how I read it al things considered.

Quote from: SiL on Feb 10, 2013, 11:41:27 PM
Oh for God's sake.

Just because something is popular, doesn't necessarily make it automatically great. Reference: Any number of the COD games, Halo games, or summer blockbusters going back the last 25 years like the utter mindrapes that the Transformer movies were.

Quote from: Paladinrja on Feb 10, 2013, 11:43:10 PM
I never said it wasn't popular just that people were dissapointed they got what they thought was a war movie for teenage boys rather than a sequel to Alien.

Some people. Some. Not all. Not a majority. For your one "I and the people I saw it with were disappointed" story I have half a dozen from people I know who were amazed by it and thought it was a brilliant sequel. And these were all people who saw Alien when it came out and enjoyed it.

QuoteIt was obviously popular as hell just not instantly

Its success, and the success of its licensed materials, would say otherwise.

Which movie has a line of action figures, lunch box, nearly a cartoon series and had instant demand for a sequel? Oh yeah. Aliens.

To deny it's success, and popularity, is to deny common sense. Whether you agree with the direction it took the series on the other hand, is entirely worth debate. Entirely. In fact, I might even agree that a more interesting series of horror movies could have been, had Scott been the one to continue the saga right off Aliens.

But that's... Water under the bridge.  :)

SiL thats just not true man. Fox can spin it any way they want once the numbers come out from booths but it took nearly a month for all the Alien fans from 7 yrs before to get through the cinemas for Aliens. Loads not just one or two weren't happy.
I am not sure of how old you are, but if you were around at the time action movies got a bum wrap right off the bat.
My kid sister wanted to see it and my mum wouldn't allow it, til she heard from her friend that it was 'pretty much an action movie for kids'. Still didn't let her go see it.

Quote from: Paladinrja on Feb 11, 2013, 12:00:10 AM
SiL thats just not true man.

The people I asked lied to me? You met them?

QuoteLoads not just one or two weren't happy.

I'm not saying one or two. But they were clearly vastly outnumbered by those who were perfectly happy. Some of them are on this board; they saw the movies in theater and they liked them both just fine. As did the people they saw it with.

Average audience didn't care. Casual fans didn't care. Some people who were really, really into Alien might have, but those that did were, and remain, a minority.

QuoteI am not sure of how old you are, but if you were around at the time action movies got a bum wrap right off the bat.

They sold well. As did the comics. AvP broke record sales three years after Aliens came out.

Ahhh ok man, thats cool :)

Quote from: Elicas on Feb 10, 2013, 11:44:08 PM

Quote from: SiL on Feb 10, 2013, 11:41:27 PM
Oh for God's sake.

Just because something is popular, doesn't necessarily make it automatically great.

No, but the near universal praise from punters and critics, and an ongoing legacy of influecing a shit tonne of media that followed is a pretty good indicator.

That's why it's so in vogue for film snobs to hate it.

Seeing as it's more of a personal thing until another entry abides by its existence, I consider whatever I can take seriously as 'canon', so naturally, A:CM doesn't count for me... along with Alien Resurrection and the AvP films.

I really liked Prometheus but like the Aliens Colonial Marines, I don't think they are canon. For me, Aliens Colonial Marines is "what would happen if". I don't know if you guys understand me. 

Prometheus, Alien, Aliens, Ali3n, Aliens: Colonial Marines, Alien Resurrection.

1 of these doesnt quite belong. :laugh:  But it does have the presence of Michael Biehn, Lance Henriksen.. and brings back a fan favourite character. It's also a buggy, mediocre, ocasionally fun but terribly animated game with ocasional good lines and situations amidst a spotty, flawed story. It's ending sets up the death of the Company by the time of A: Resurrection... it also introduces silly designs for the xenomorphs and more "classes".. Spitter? Crusher? They are too kenner like...

So...
Canon until it gets shot out of a canon by another film or by Jim Cameron's opinion of it. :laugh:

Prometheus was good and should be canon because it opens up the alien universe and dosent hurt it at all unlike A:CM which completley changes what we know and in a way ruins the alien universe so i look at A:CM as a what if scenario for fun in a gmae not to be taken seriously but promethues can be taken seriosly since it strengthens the alin universe.

ruins the alien universe? how so?

Quote from: Blacklabel on Feb 11, 2013, 02:45:41 AM
ruins the alien universe? how so?

Well it changes things and makes them just seem stupid and pointless I watched the ending of the game on youtube and it was bad really bad and made me angry when you see the ending of the game you will understand personally I think  the alien universe is perfect as it is and then A:CM try's to change for no good reason.

I keep hearing time and time again how Ali3n ruined Aliens by killing newt, hicks, bishop and ripley. The universe was ruined already in the eyes of some people. :P So what gives? (an opinion i dont share btw)

2 Masterpieces, 2 ok flicks, 1 film that is really a mediocre mixed bag and 1 game that is also a mediocre mixed bag.
(opinions may vary on which is which).

With Ali3n.. it became a flawed universe with magical stowaway eggs. A: CM is but another in a series of flawed products.

Quote from: Blacklabel on Feb 11, 2013, 03:15:35 AM
I keep hearing time and time again how Ali3n ruined Aliens by killing newt, hicks, bishop and ripley. The universe was ruined already in the eyes of some people. :P So what gives?

2 Masterpieces, 2 ok flicks, 1 film that is really a mediocre mixed bag and 1 game that is also a mediocre mixed bag.
(opinions may vary on which is which).

With Ali3n.. it became a flawed universe with magical stowaway eggs. A: CM is but another in a series of flawed products.

The way I look at it alien3 and alien resurrection are wonderful additions to the alien series.  Alien 3 showed the alien series dark side by killing off these beloved characters and brought ripleys story arc to a nice end and brought the series back to suspense and horror.  Alien resurrection is a fun movie that brings back ripley to fight the aliens in a awesome way.  So these two movies fit well into the alien universe but A:CM changes alien 3 and makes no sense so i  bet that the people who despised alien 3 will love the story of the game but I loved alien 3 and dislike A:CM story but thats my opinion on the game but i can tell you now this gaem wont be canon in probally a yar when people forget about it.

Quote from: Paladinrja on Feb 10, 2013, 11:18:24 PM
Unfortunately A:CM campaign was canonized by Fox... Its not a spinoff or what if. Aliens was bad enough, bug hunt mentality, with yehah marines. I'm ex-military those marines are pure BS.

LAWL.

I smile seeing all these people bitching and moaning about Prometheus. I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. Now, as for A: CM, I'm gonna have to play the f**king game first to make judgements.

Prometheus and A:CM are clearly on different levels, but there are some amusing similarities. The revelations in each are more frustrating than gratifying. Also, the writers of each raise many more questions than they answer. This isn't in itself a negative, as long as the story obeys its own internal logic, or any logic for that matter. Prometheus does its damnedest to avoid scrutiny by not answering anything, while A:CM offers half-ass dialogue to lampshade its boldest plot point.

"Whose body was in the EEV, Hicks?"

"Long Story. Hey look, my shotgun! Why isn't the barrel melted?"

If Gearbox wished to radically alter [retcon] crucial and long-established lore, they are obligated to sufficiently explain it. Prometheus doesn't contradict anything we already know so much as expand upon that knowledge in an inevitably controversial fashion. From the comments I've seen here, that makes it no different from Aliens and Alien 3.

Prometheus, despite its shortcomings, is at least a decent film (who can argue with Roger Ebert?), while Colonial Marines is a mediocre game at best—one that overzealously chases fan service at the expense of logic. As far as canon is concerned, there was probably a time when Fox considered AVP canon, so let's not be too concerned with that label.

I think that both are wonderful Spin-offs to the franchise, but most likely neither will ever be given that much thought if another Alien film goes into development. Prometheus 2 though? Different story. The dead truth is, the 4 directors of the original films took into consideration the previous films, then did their totally own thing with their film. Lets say Alien 5 gets announced tomorrow, set into production immediately. Sure A:CM will be given a good once over, we can agree that it MAY get a mention, or perhaps a squad or two of marines as cannon fodder, but as for the story being a crucial part of the film? No. Never. I wouldn't be able to take any self respecting director serious if they're calling a VIDEO GAME canon and having to abide by the events of the story affecting how he makes HIS OWN FILM.






also, on a more personal note.

Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Feb 10, 2013, 10:32:04 PM
Concept
A pretentious piece of crap designed to appeal to trendy- latte swigging, hipsters, who visit modern art galleries, wear skinny jeans.
In fact Prometheus reminds me of modern art. Crap sold as chocolate.

So because I happen to wear skinny jeans, drink lattes, and appreciates Prometheus does that make my opinion of the film invalid to you? F@#k you man, what does ones clothing style, taste in coffee and art have ANYTHING to do with the validation of Prometheus. I guess I liked the film to be trendy and vogue or something.

Quote from: Byohzrd on Feb 11, 2013, 05:45:35 AM
also, on a more personal note.

Quote from: AVP-CAPCOM on Feb 10, 2013, 10:32:04 PM
Concept
A pretentious piece of crap designed to appeal to trendy- latte swigging, hipsters, who visit modern art galleries, wear skinny jeans.
In fact Prometheus reminds me of modern art. Crap sold as chocolate.

So because I happen to wear skinny jeans, drink lattes, and appreciates Prometheus does that make my opinion of the film invalid to you? F@#k you man, what does ones clothing style, taste in coffee and art have ANYTHING to do with the validation of Prometheus. I guess I liked the film to be trendy and vogue or something.

Thank you. This irritated me too. The hipster has become a contemporary boogeyman, and the label itself is a catch-all to represent anything outside of the user's comfort zone. Speaking for those effete, tight-trousered types, no one would confuse a film with space cobras and ancient aliens for high art. Does this blanket condemnation of modern art extend to Giger?

'Prometheus' is an odd kettle of fish... I still say the skeletal nature of the original Space Jockey's mouth makes it seem like an obvious once-living entity, but we've no idea if the Engineer's based the look of their suits on something before them, possibly out of reverence. Other main oddity is all the holographic stuff not fitting with what's on Gateway Station and the Sulaco and, obviously, why the authorities didn't just use the dream-scanning device to verify Ripley's testament as not being made up.

It's a messy story, but I'm on the 'undecided' pile as regards whether it can be considered canon. As I've said before, the do-whatever-the-writers-want-it-to nature of the black ooze makes the Predalien's breeding method strangely more plausible than before, so... It's got weird consequences.

'Colonial Marines', I'll wait for full walkthrough videos to go up before making a definitive decision, one way or the other, but it doesn't look nearly as authentic as was being proclaimed. Definitely erring on the 'not canon' side for that, right now.

The explanation for the colony existing... I still don't understand that. If the explosion was beneath ground, then look at videos of real underground nuclear tests - the entire area just collapses. The colony might not have been physically vaporised if that is what happened, but it certainly shouldn't have been standing, structurally-speaking.

On the other hand, underground tests don't produce the blinding flare effect we saw the dropship flying from...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1f6vbiuUt0# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1f6vbiuUt0#)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4D0-s8OsI#)

As for people claiming the Cameron's sequel ruined/destroyed anything (it never negated anything; only added to it), I suggest they read the following:

http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/alien-alumni-on-aliens/ (http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/alien-alumni-on-aliens/)

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 11, 2013, 07:17:02 AMOther main oddity is all the holographic stuff not fitting with what's on Gateway Station and the Sulaco and, obviously, why the authorities didn't just use the dream-scanning device to verify Ripley's testament as not being made up.

Salient point.  Maybe there was another "Big Deletion" after Prometheus.

Other thing is that Bishop did warn, back in 'Aliens', about the area literally becoming "a cloud of vapour". That, along with the flare, definitely seems to indicate above-ground detonation.

Is there any reason to believe that the reactor was underground?  All we know for sure is that part of the cooling system was.

Good catch with the dream scanner. Maybe the Company did collect Ripley's dreams as part of the psychometric probation mentioned in the director's cut. I'm not sure what Lindelof/Spaihts intended, but I would guess that the subjective memories the device culled from sensory experience would not be reliable evidence. Given how fallible memory is, the scene we see from Shaw's childhood may not have been a literal reconstruction of past events. Perhaps the subject's mental state would also effect the projections. The readings for a drugged or insane person might produce wildly different results. If Weyland psychologists in 2079 recorded a xenomorph in Ripley's dreams, they may have written it off as a delusion.

Quote from: RaisingCanon on Feb 11, 2013, 12:54:45 AM
That's why it's so in vogue for film snobs to hate it.

Film snobs... a vast majority found Aliens, whilst entertining on whatever personal level, to be a no-brainer. To cite Alien fans unhappy with the film as film snobs is to invalidate the movies completely.

Quote from: Queen7 on Feb 11, 2013, 02:53:55 AM.. and it was bad really bad and made me angry when you see the ending of the game you will understand personally I think  the alien universe is perfect as it is and then A:CM try's to change for no good reason.

Quote from: Birth_Machine on Feb 11, 2013, 04:17:44 AMColonial Marines is a mediocre game at best—one that overzealously chases fan service at the expense of logic.

I felt exactly the same way, so much so I took the game back as instantaneously as possible.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 11, 2013, 07:29:39 AM
Other thing is that Bishop did warn, back in 'Aliens', about the area literally becoming "a cloud of vapour". That, along with the flare, definitely seems to indicate above-ground detonation.

Yah, a 40 megaton surface level blast would've turned an area the size of a major city into a pyroclastic cloud. Anyone know what the distance of the derelict was in relation to Hadley's hope?
I was under the impression it wasn't that far, just that the beacon had gone silent.

Quote from: Paladinrja on Feb 11, 2013, 08:35:22 AM

Yah, a 40 megaton surface level blast would've turned an area the size of a major city into a pyroclastic cloud. Anyone know what the distance of the derelict was in relation to Hadley's hope?
I was under the impression it wasn't that far, just that the beacon had gone silent.

Likely more than 30 kilometers away. Possibly around 2 to 6 days drive from HH.

There have been people living in Hadley's Hope for over 20 years. I'm sure all terrain within a 30 kilometer radius would have been thoroughly explored and mapped during that time. The derelict isn't exactly tiny.

Besides, would you call anything within 30 clicks from your house "the middle of nowhere?"

Quote from: ST on Feb 11, 2013, 10:38:05 AM
Likely more than 30 kilometers away. Possibly around 2 to 6 days drive from HH.

Has to be closer. Jordan would've popped long before he reached the colony if it were 2 or more days away.

Quote from: SiL on Feb 11, 2013, 10:42:04 AM

Quote from: ST on Feb 11, 2013, 10:38:05 AM
Likely more than 30 kilometers away. Possibly around 2 to 6 days drive from HH.

Has to be closer. Jordan would've popped long before he reached the colony if it were 2 or more days away.

How long was Caine's gestation period - from initial contact with the facehugger to "popping"?

Quote from: ST on Feb 11, 2013, 10:56:37 AM

Quote from: SiL on Feb 11, 2013, 10:42:04 AM

Quote from: ST on Feb 11, 2013, 10:38:05 AM
Likely more than 30 kilometers away. Possibly around 2 to 6 days drive from HH.

Has to be closer. Jordan would've popped long before he reached the colony if it were 2 or more days away.

How long was Caine's gestation period - from initial contact with the facehugger to "popping"?

If I remember correctly, Parker and Brett ask for 24 hours to fix the ship right? And Kane pops after things are fixed and they're back in space (though Dallas cuts them a little short, hence the lack of cctv on level 3 in the novelization) add several hours of bringing him back from the derelict, Ash's checking him over after the facehugger drops off and the meal prep time, I'd estimate maybe day and a half?

Quote from: Elicas on Feb 11, 2013, 11:05:37 AM

Quote from: ST on Feb 11, 2013, 10:56:37 AM

Quote from: SiL on Feb 11, 2013, 10:42:04 AM

Quote from: ST on Feb 11, 2013, 10:38:05 AM
Likely more than 30 kilometers away. Possibly around 2 to 6 days drive from HH.

Has to be closer. Jordan would've popped long before he reached the colony if it were 2 or more days away.

How long was Caine's gestation period - from initial contact with the facehugger to "popping"?

If I remember correctly, Parker and Brett ask for 24 hours to fix the ship right? And Kane pops after things are fixed and they're back in space (though Dallas cuts them a little short, hence the lack of cctv on level 3 in the novelization) add several hours of bringing him back from the derelict, Ash's checking him over after the facehugger drops off and the meal prep time, I'd estimate maybe day and a half?

So if a Daihotai Tractor can average around 10km's per hour over LV426 terrain they should be able to cover about 120 kilometers in half-a-day (12hrs).

My "less" comment had to do with the days given, not kilometers.

Alien Resurrection makes it pretty clear the derelict was toast, though.

Quote from: SiL on Feb 11, 2013, 11:31:29 AM
My "less" comment had to do with the days given, not kilometers.

Lydecker mentioned "last week" so could be as little as only two days. Less than two he would have given hours or said yesterday, surely?

Quote from: SiL on Feb 11, 2013, 11:31:29 AM
Alien Resurrection makes it pretty clear the derelict was toast, though.

Yeah, but did Ripley nuke it after she got back to the Sulaco or was it destroyed in the AP explosion?

Quote from: ST on Feb 11, 2013, 11:45:29 AM
Lydecker mentioned "last week" so could be as little as only two days. Less than two he would have given hours or said yesterday, surely?

Often takes longer to get somewhere the first time than to get back from it. A week there, realise the best route back, one day back. Happens a lot.

QuoteYeah, but did Ripley nuke it after she got back to the Sulaco or was it destroyed in the AP explosion?

Novels say the former, films say nothing.

Quote from: SiL on Feb 11, 2013, 12:07:37 PM

Often takes longer to get somewhere the first time than to get back from it. A week there, realise the best route back, one day back. Happens a lot.

Good point - especially true in very mountainous terrain (as shown in Director's Cut).

Quote from: SiL on Feb 11, 2013, 12:07:37 PM

Novels say the former, films say nothing.

Interresting... what is the most popular theory on these boards?

Quote from: SiL on Feb 11, 2013, 12:07:37 PM
Often takes longer to get somewhere the first time than to get back from it. A week there, realise the best route back, one day back. Happens a lot.

Not to mention the difference between scouting, and hauling ass. ... That must have been one helluva ride home.

My take on it is that there could have been air transport, which would have both had a much more direct - and faster - journey. Ferro makes reference to a "landing field", if memory serves correctly.

Also just common sense for a colony to be outfitted with one for more common emergency airlift situations.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 12, 2013, 01:55:18 AM
My take on it is that there could have been air transport, which would have both had a much more direct - and faster - journey. Ferro makes reference to a "landing field", if memory serves correctly.

Also just common sense for a colony to be outfitted with one for more common emergency airlift situations.

There is an airfield, it's where the dropship drops off the APC. You can also find some of Cobb's art for it lying around.

QuoteI read that you were given access to Prometheus and the script and Ridley Scott himself before that movie came out. Are there any connections between Colonial Marines and Prometheus?

There really isn't any connection with Prometheus. It's definitely hugely different time frames. But in our game, we do go to the derelict ship, you know, the one that we think we saw in Prometheus. Definitely the one that we saw in Alien and Aliens. And we get to go explore that. We get to go inside and see what's inside one of those things. So that's pretty exciting.

So even you guys aren't sure whether that was actually the same ship?

Right [laughing]. Yeah, we're not even privy to that knowledge.

http://www.complex.com/video-games/2013/02/interview-aliens-colonial-marines-design-director-on-the-legacy-prometheus-and-making-a-modern-game/page/2 (http://www.complex.com/video-games/2013/02/interview-aliens-colonial-marines-design-director-on-the-legacy-prometheus-and-making-a-modern-game/page/2)

D'oh. If you watch the film then you should intrinsically know that they're not the same ships.

QuoteHow long was Caine's gestation period - from initial contact with the facehugger to "popping"?

In the 16-20 hour ballpark.

QuoteIs there any reason to believe that the reactor was underground?  All we know for sure is that part of the cooling system was.

Primary heat exchangers were around sub level 1 at their lowest point (and there's around 8 sub levels).  At least 40 levels above ground.

As for the Jorden's getting back, as I've often said, you could easily cover 30-40 kms in a few hours if you know where you're going.

I didn't see Prometheus yet, but are those Red ball scanning things that float around the derelict from it

Yes they are.

Prometheus is cannon cause its a prequel to Alien.

Except it is its own thing.

So it isn't cannon.

But its also a Alien prequel.

So it IS cannon but not cannon.

Who are the four people that voted for A:CM?  :laugh:

Quote from: Cal427eb on Feb 17, 2013, 06:38:39 AM
Who are the four people that voted for A:CM?  :laugh:

Committing seppuku in shame. ;)

Quote from: cloverfan98 on Feb 17, 2013, 06:29:51 AM
Prometheus is cannon cause its a prequel to Alien.

Except it is its own thing.

So it isn't cannon.

But its also a Alien prequel.

So it IS cannon but not cannon.

It shares the same universe but that's pretty much about it.
I don't think many consider that AVP & AVP-R are canon, yet they share the same universe.

Hi just registered so I could contribute to this discussion. Firstly I do consider Prometheus canon as it doesn't change a lot in the Alien film series but elaborates on the space jockey and derelict/juggernaughts from a different point of view which I think was important for the Alien films, in my opinion, not to include as it would have taken out the mystery of the purpose of the derelict ship and its cargo.

As for the incubation/gestation period in relation to distance from the colony in aliens, (Spoilers below for anyone who hasn't yet seen Aliens/Alien 3 if thats relevant for anyone on this site lol).

I always believed Jordan was impregnated with the queen embrio which in Alien 3 I got the impression took longer to reach maturity seeing as though Ripley was impregnated first despite the runner xeno bursting out much sooner in comparison. Seemed to give Ripley a few days at the least so figured Jorden also gave "birth" to the queen in the colony which started the infestation. So in theory I always believed the derelict remained intact as it was out of range and would have liked to see how that played out on film.

Quote from: AiRo1988 on Feb 17, 2013, 06:53:30 PM

Spoiler

I always believed Jordan was impregnated with the queen embrio which in Alien 3 I got the impression took longer to reach maturity seeing as though Ripley was impregnated first despite the runner xeno bursting out much sooner in comparison. Seemed to give Ripley a few days at the least so figured Jorden also gave "birth" to the queen in the colony which started the infestation. So in theory I always believed the derelict remained intact as it was out of range and would have liked to see how that played out on film.

[close]

Welcome to AVPG.

Spoiler

Interesting theory regarding Jordan being impregnated by an queen embryo, it would make sense, though I'm unsure how much Cameron had planned (if any plans at all) for a Queen Embryo. I always though that was introduced with Alien3.

[close]

We'd really need a film/game as the colonists at Hadley's Hope to really find out.

Thanks and yes it was just the vibe I picked up from watching it and that maybe the FH that were obtained were caught "onsite" if you will as cant imagine them being so prepared to travel long distance with them captured on the derelict.

Quote from: cloverfan98 on Feb 17, 2013, 06:29:51 AM
Prometheus is cannon cause its a prequel to Alien.

Except it is its own thing.

So it isn't cannon.

But its also a Alien prequel.

So it IS cannon but not cannon.

Nothing is cannon.

Canon on the other hand...

Cannon is cannon.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Firanian.com%2Fdata%2Fimages%2F1267612501_cannon.jpg&hash=2dddd9576a47a45fe6a26750ffa9bbd0b995d162)

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-G96PgPdG-gY%2FTlRgZ2t8R1I%2FAAAAAAAABLY%2FlvpC9KLDyA4%2Fs1600%2Fspace-jockey-alien-1_1199392713.jpg&hash=0e61255a3427c3cb8071d9983e956443227697db)

Quote from: Le Celticant on Feb 17, 2013, 01:22:23 PM

Quote from: cloverfan98 on Feb 17, 2013, 06:29:51 AM
Prometheus is cannon cause its a prequel to Alien.

Except it is its own thing.

So it isn't cannon.

But its also a Alien prequel.

So it IS cannon but not cannon.

It shares the same universe but that's pretty much about it.
I don't think many consider that AVP & AVP-R are canon, yet they share the same universe.

I was being sarcastic about how Ridley and the writers went back and forth during the flim's development, but on the same note I will say that I think Prometheus is in the same universe as the AVP movies. It has ALWAYS been the Weyland-Yutani Corp, untill AVP where they introduced the original company Weylend industries. And in Prometheus we have the same Weyland Corp as opposed to the Weyland-Yutani one on the original series.

QuoteAnd in Prometheus we have the same Weyland Corp as opposed to the Weyland-Yutani one on the original series.

Different founder. And it's not "building a better future" like in AvP. Oh, it's also called a retcon.

A:CM is about as canon as Aliens vs Predator on Super Nintendo.

On screen, there isn't any indication of who the founder was. Just a narrative suggestion.

Hmm. People tend to deny canon to movies they dont like, as oppose to any other reason. I think its a bit of a tricky thing. WHO has the say to whats canon and whats not? Is it the creator of the universe, is it the license holder? I myself hate Resurrection, but since it doesnt flat out contradict anything major from previous movies, as much as I despise that movie, I cant discard it as non canon. It "offically" is, same goes for A:CM as well, but as far as A:CM, Im very indifferent to its story. I think they had some interesting ideas tho, like WY hiring mercs and starting war

There are what I call special cases, where one author IS the franchise end all and be all. I would not consider any Star Wars movie without Lucas canon, same goes for Terminator movies without Cameron, Matrix movies without Wachovsky Brothers or Inception without Nolans

If one set of media contradicts the continuity of the primary source material, especially if obviously, then it can't be regarded as canon.

And this does precisely that.

I consider Prometheus canon simply because I thought that film was f**king amazing.

A friend of mine doesn't think Alien 3 or Alien: Resurrection are canon because he thinks those movies are both garbage.

This usually comes down to what you like and what you don't like.

I don't think either AvP movies are canon, mostly because they weren't good, but also because the idea of aliens and predators fighting seems more fanfictiony than anything else. I love it as a concept, enjoyed the games, but that's as far as I go.

Plus, the movies were pretty bad.

I don't consider Aliens: CM canon, first because it's not a quality product, but also because what it does to the story is just bullshit stupid. It tries to undo things that simply cannot be undone given what happens in Aliens and Alien 3. Hadley's Hope was blown to shit and Hicks dies in Alien 3. Not much else to say there.

I suppose you could debate the canonical validity of the AvP films though. I, however, don't see any reason to :P

To me it just comes down to two four things:

-Whether Hicks has a 'longer story', and the Bishop line is tied to the Weyland gene pool
-Whether there are Predators
-Whether Wey-Yu is bought out by Wal-Mart

Aside from that, I can deal.

Quote from: Space Sweeper on Feb 19, 2013, 04:33:48 AM
-Whether Wey-Yu is bought out by Wal-Mart

Quote from: Space Sweeper on Feb 19, 2013, 04:33:48 AM
To me it just comes down to two things:

-Whether Hicks has a 'longer story', and the Bishop line is tied to the Weyland gene pool
-Whether there are Predators
-Whether Wey-Yu is bought out by Wal-Mart

Aside from that, I can deal.

That's three or four things.

Hah, when I was writing, my mind wandered. Turns out I'm a little more strict than initially written.

Quote from: CONKERSBADFURDAY on Feb 19, 2013, 04:22:49 AM
This usually comes down to what you like and what you don't like.

Don't see why personal preference should enter into it. ???

I don't like the third and fourth film nearly as much as the first two, but I accept them as canon for the general series.

As do all people who like being taken at all seriously in a dicussion about Alien flicks.

:laugh:

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 19, 2013, 05:52:20 AM

Quote from: CONKERSBADFURDAY on Feb 19, 2013, 04:22:49 AM
This usually comes down to what you like and what you don't like.

Don't see why personal preference should enter into it. ???

But it usually does. Most people that discard some sequels as canon do it simply because they dont like them

In my experience "most" people don't.

"A sane man doesn't disregard that which he wishes did not exist." - Me.

;)

Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2013, 10:22:43 PM
In my experience "most" people don't.

How about this forum? Wouldnt you say its fairly often when people say they hate Alien 3 and they dont take it as cannon? Or people happily disregarding AVP movies as canon for not liking them?

Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 19, 2013, 11:36:59 PM

Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2013, 10:22:43 PM
In my experience "most" people don't.

How about this forum? Wouldnt you say its fairly often when people say they hate Alien 3 and they don't take it as cannon? Or people happily disregarding AVP movies as canon for not liking them?

People ignoring Alien 3 are usually the Hicks fanboys, similar to those responsible for the A:CM mess in the first place. AVP films are easy to ignore as they have basically f**k all to do with the existing mythos established in both franchises, they exist in their own vacuum of "alternate-universia".

To me canon runs - Alien Quadrilogy is nothing to do with the Aliens EU. Predator Trilogy is nothing to do with the Predator EU. AVP is it's own abomination. I've seen people tie themselves in f**king knots trying to make everything fit in with the established canon of the films, it's just not possible, there is too much shitty ideas in all the series. I think SM would agree with me. At least, that's how he always comes across to me.

I don't think anyone would seriously start an argument over what is or is not canon based off of some shitty comic tie-in that wasn't done as anything more than a little extra earner on the side from Fox while a movie wasn't in development.

Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 19, 2013, 11:36:59 PM

Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2013, 10:22:43 PM
In my experience "most" people don't.

How about this forum? Wouldnt you say its fairly often when people say they hate Alien 3 and they dont take it as cannon? Or people happily disregarding AVP movies as canon for not liking them?

No. Or 'canon' even.

AvP is a different kettle of fish and doesn't often factor into Alien only discussion.

Quote from: Elicas on Feb 19, 2013, 11:45:09 PM

People ignoring Alien 3 are usually the Hicks fanboys, similar to those responsible for the A:CM mess in the first place.

Right, so thats my point, that people discard movies as canon based on personal liking or disliking of the movie, rather than anything else

QuoteI don't think anyone would seriously start an argument over what is or is not canon based off of some shitty comic tie-in that wasn't done as anything more than a little extra earner on the side from Fox while a movie wasn't in development.

Most of them were god awful, but to be fair there were some golden nuggets there

Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2013, 11:48:30 PM
No. Or 'canon' even.

AvP is a different kettle of fish and doesn't often factor into Alien only discussion.

I'd say every person I've ever seen say they don't count A3 as canon have done so because they haven't liked it. What Forum are you frequenting?

Any forum over the last 15 years.  Most people who engage in Alien related discussion regard Alien3 and Resurrection as canonical whether they like them or not.

Most people who hate Alien3 and Ressurection to the point of not counting them as canon, don't hang around long.

I don't think people all necessarily hate the fact that hix n n00t were killed. Just the way him and Newt were killed. "I don't think she was conscious", then flashback to her clawing at her cryotube, mouth open, dead. It's like, "Guys shouldn't we give them any screen time and wrap up there--""--nope! Nope! Just kill 'em in the opening credits. Er...then have Ripley sort-of show emotion for two seconds, it'll work story wise! Oh! And also have a completely jarring transition between movies, that'll work too."

Quote from: thecaffeinatedone on Feb 20, 2013, 12:02:44 AM
I don't think people all necessarily hate the fact that hix n n00t were killed. Just the way him and Newt were killed. "I don't think she was conscious", then flashback to her clawing at her cryotube, mouth open, dead. It's like, "Guys shouldn't we give them any screen time and wrap up there--""--nope! Nope! Just kill 'em in the opening credits. Er...then have Ripley sort-of show emotion for two seconds, it'll work story wise! Oh! And also have a completely jarring transition between movies, that'll work too."

This... pretty much.  :P

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 19, 2013, 05:52:20 AM

Quote from: CONKERSBADFURDAY on Feb 19, 2013, 04:22:49 AM
This usually comes down to what you like and what you don't like.

Don't see why personal preference should enter into it. ???

I don't like the third and fourth film nearly as much as the first two, but I accept them as canon for the general series.

It's hard to accept the validity of something you don't like, I guess is what it boils down to. I don't accept the Buu saga in DBZ as canon because it was garbage and the level of power creep in it made f**kall sense, even less than the previous seasons.

I've seen enough people try and argue Prometheus out of the canon, and I've seen a handful do the same with Alien 3. Mostly came down to not liking the movies.

A:CM isn't canon because it breaks what is established in two Aliens movies though. Don't think there's room for debate there.

Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2013, 11:57:53 PM
Most people who engage in Alien related discussion regard Alien3 and Resurrection as canonical whether they like them or not.

Why on Earth are you reading his posts as a blanket statement about fans in general ??? He's clearly talking specifically about most people who disregard the last two movies. Their reasoning pretty much always boils down to "I don't like them".

Oh f**ked if I know...