Poll
Question:
What is the Standard Alien Design In Your Opinion?
Option 1: "Alien"
Option 2: "Aliens"
Option 3: "Alien: Resurrection"
Option 4: "AVP"
Option 5: "AVP:R"
The designs in all 4 alien (and avp movies) have all varied. I was just wondering what everyone agrees is the basic design of the alien... if there is one. Or maybe WHY there are design differences (e.g. surroundings, just the way the aliens are). I've always wondered what people think of when they think of a xenomorph.
Designs from the first two films are what I think fo when I talk about the Alien.
As far as design differences go, I'd divide them in types.
Alien -- type A
Aliens -- type A, possibly type B
Alien3 -- Same as Aliens
Alien Resurrection -- Mutated type A/B
Alien Vs. Predator -- type C
AvPR -- type C, possibly deformed
Yeah, I always think of the translucent head and the spiny tail such as the one in Rez. Although in Rez the aliens' mouth were able to move from side to side... kind of weird for me.
Well the real life reasons are that in Aliens they tried to slightly move away from a man of the suit look, thus redoing hands and using puppets, and found the head designs interesting, thus removing dome. From then on its pretty much different designers trying to put their stamps on the creature, kinda like doing a cover of a song
Here are torsos and body designs of all the aliens, click to enlarge
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa277%2Flovegunner%2FAVP%2FALIENBODYCHART.jpg&hash=b2192a79363ab467544ecd605ad3802e05b8072c)
Comic books as well had many different variants, except for some artists who faithfully recreated designs from certain movies. I guess the only standard for alien design is that it has a long head, ribcage , no eyes and double mouth.
I just think of Cameron's Aliens. They are pretty much what everyone else draws in comic books. When it comes to video games they are the most used as well, and I don't doubt that any other medium would use Cameron's design most of the time.
Thanks for the pics strange shape. And yeah it seems that Cameron's aliens are used an awful lot in most other media.
well - since they are shaped by the host as much as anything else -- and they arent clones -- um, they just look different.
To me, when I think of the Alien, I always think of the one in the first movie. Its the scariest and best looking (in my opinion, of course), and while the Aliens variant may be the one used in most media, the design from Alien is the original; without it, we wouldn't have had any of the other designs (the good ones or the bad ones).
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Jun 20, 2012, 03:39:54 AM
To me, when I think of the Alien, I always think of the one in the first movie.
Me too, but I think today the general audience thinks of ADI design with the pointy head. hell, even the Deacon has a lot in common with ADI aliens rather than Giger/Winston aliens
I'm not going to lie, I really have no problem at all with the Aliens from AR and AVP. I mean, they have nothing on the original, but they don't look bad at all. And in the case of AR, I'm fine thinking of the differences in looks/actions as being side effects of the cloning process.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Jun 20, 2012, 03:51:03 AM
I'm not going to lie, I really have no problem at all with the Aliens from AR and AVP. I mean, they have nothing on the original, but they don't look bad at all. And in the case of AR, I'm fine thinking of the differences in looks/actions as being side effects of the cloning process.
Well, I hate them with passion for taking out ALL the biomechanicality and the sexuality out of the design, but lets not dwell into it
You mean like how they started taking it out with the very Alien depicted in your avatar...
What are you gunna do?
Quote from: SM on Jun 20, 2012, 04:21:55 AM
You mean like how they started taking it out with the very Alien depicted in your avatar...
What are you gunna do?
It was just the neck with the runner. The body had a nice Gigerish designs
The more upswept ribs, more organic mouth and lack of dorsal tubes all detracted from the mechanical part of biomechanical.
Quote from: SM on Jun 20, 2012, 04:57:12 AM
The more upswept ribs, more organic mouth and lack of dorsal tubes all detracted from the mechanical part of biomechanical.
Ok yeah, but the lips added to the sexuality of the creature and the head was still of a phallic shape. And again, they compensated for lack of mechanical aspect on the body with Gigerish texture
All the heads have the phallic shape.
No idea what 'Gigerish texture' actually means in this instance.
Quote from: SM on Jun 20, 2012, 05:07:52 AM
All the heads have the phallic shape.
No, they didnt. Starting with A:R their head was pointy and lost the 'tip' part of it. Now it was just a long head
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa277%2Flovegunner%2FAVP%2Falienshapesmall.jpg&hash=079a21ab8f5810430a8313132b40018dc3474a1e)
QuoteNo idea what 'Gigerish texture' actually means in this instance.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa277%2Flovegunner%2FAVP%2Frunner.png&hash=27e82c22bd9d6110a7238e1d49d4605bd9bdf668)
So not really much different from Resurrection.
And flattening off one bit of the head doesn't suddenly make it not phallic anymore. Just not as phallic as other versions.
Quote from: SM on Jun 20, 2012, 05:22:13 AM
So not really much different from Resurrection.
Id say its plenty different. Runner had those airbrushed designs on its body, anything from A:R on didnt have anything. Just muscles
Like those highly prevalent shoulder muscles in your avvy pic, that weren't there on earlier designs?
For me, Aliens.
When I think of aliens I think of camerons first.
However there seems to be a consensus occurring here. The more designers try to remove the biomechanical life from the alien and replace it with an organic look the more it becomes a generic movie monster.
Aliens gots'a have more tubes and rolls royce parts!
the first films design.
Everything that followed is a variation.
For me Aliens is standard, its just been used more.
In a perfect world Id rather see this without eyesockets.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gavinrothery.com%2Fstorage%2F01061_Alien_Sibthorp.jpg%3F__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION%3D1317985247897&hash=e895318548c5b95a8a894205c8886884622002c3)
Kane's son, the perfect design.
Hate the revisions of elongated fingers and domeless head.
The first three films have the best designs for sure. The original is about as good as a monster design can get. The Winston design has grown on me. I'm really starting to like the skull ridges and weird arm blades. The only thing that really bothers me about the dog Alien is the tail dagger is way too long.
I guess the Resurrection design doesn't bother me TOO much, but the hands are the worst. Basically this and the AVP films are where they started to get too rubbery and fleshy. Just guys in suits. They lost a lot of elegancy.
I was hoping we'd get something biomechanical and wonderful in Prometheus but instead we get Pumpkinhead Jr. :-\
Mostly, when I hear Alien, it's usually the 'Cameron' Alien. Mostly.
Quote from: SM on Jun 20, 2012, 05:22:13 AM
And flattening off one bit of the head doesn't suddenly make it not phallic anymore.
for dogs maybe.
I had done an outlining of the phallic shape in the Res Alien... Wonder where it went. Buh. Either way most of the lines are still there, they just elongated and flattened the lower part of the 'tip'.
Quote from: Aceburster on Jun 20, 2012, 09:43:02 PM
For me Aliens is standard, its just been used more.
In a perfect world Id rather see this without eyesockets.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gavinrothery.com%2Fstorage%2F01061_Alien_Sibthorp.jpg%3F__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION%3D1317985247897&hash=e895318548c5b95a8a894205c8886884622002c3)
So ...
Aliens then?
Love this guy
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg425%2Fmrmagoo6%2F33422_442273734103_241390299103_5930399_2711910_n.jpg&hash=c1e17139c35206db5ffd54fbbaec03c9f008b7f5)
And this one too
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg425%2Fmrmagoo6%2Fpicture005.jpg&hash=169b939d53d74584f17805aa282132b39d6e6cfc)
Kane's son, hands down
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 24, 2012, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: Aceburster on Jun 20, 2012, 09:43:02 PM
For me Aliens is standard, its just been used more.
In a perfect world Id rather see this without eyesockets.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gavinrothery.com%2Fstorage%2F01061_Alien_Sibthorp.jpg%3F__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION%3D1317985247897&hash=e895318548c5b95a8a894205c8886884622002c3)
So ... Aliens then?
Love this guy
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg425%2Fmrmagoo6%2F33422_442273734103_241390299103_5930399_2711910_n.jpg&hash=c1e17139c35206db5ffd54fbbaec03c9f008b7f5)
And this one too
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg425%2Fmrmagoo6%2Fpicture005.jpg&hash=169b939d53d74584f17805aa282132b39d6e6cfc)
Sorta I guess. The Aliens head is ridged but its a little simplified tho, the jaw is a bit different too. But the Cameron Alien doesnt have the contrasting meat on bone detail at all, its all one color.
Gigers is way taller and lankier, the detail on the Giger Alien beats it hands down, I like the original feet compared to the Cameron Aliens, I dont like the arm blades at all, and prefer the original tail too. If they crossbred the hand style of the original with the length of the Cameron Aliens fingers for a bit more length and creepiness then it would be nice.
Personally the original for the most part and only a tweak to the head which was always under there. For generalizing yea, Camerons Alien because of the head ect.
Quote from: Aceburster on Jun 24, 2012, 11:34:24 PM
Gigers is way taller and lankier,
Actually its the other way around. Winston's "hero" alien (animatronic puppets) is taller and much slimmer than Giger's "hero" alien (Badejo) - http://www.jamescamerononline.com/AlienWarrior.htm
(http://www.jamescamerononline.com/AlienWarrior.htm)
Quotethe detail on the Giger Alien beats it hands down,
But Winston aliens have actually every single piece of Gigers design on them, its just that the material is different/simplified
QuoteI like the original feet compared to the Cameron Aliens
,
Same
QuoteI dont like the arm blades at all, and prefer the original tail too.
Some had longer ones, which worked for the great silhouettes shots, some had the same length blades as Gigers
QuoteIf they crossbred the hand style of the original with the length of the Cameron Aliens fingers for a bit more length and creepiness then it would be nice.
The hands actually I like much more from Winston. I agree with his statement that the shape and look of the original was too glove-like. Its all opinion of course
QuotePersonally the original for the most part and only a tweak to the head which was always under there. For generalizing yea, Camerons Alien because of the head ect.
I love what Giger had done underneath the dome so I enjoy it when those designs are exposed in Aliens. BUT, I do also love the smooth, creepy dome
The animatronic stuff is one thing but the practical suits are what im basing the differences on.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yourprops.com%2Fmovieprops%2Foriginal%2F42759b00244fd%2FAliens-1986-costumes-wardrobe.jpg&hash=ce3bd03c781dce7bb8d8870e18b5287fbb603a3e)
It probably came down to needing something quick and tough for action shots and stunts but that stubby simple look is... ouch.
The animatronics in all of the movies are amazing to me in their details, regardless of design.
That 'simple stubby look' isn't evident in the film so it doesn't make much difference.
Quote from: SM on Jun 25, 2012, 12:19:25 AM
That 'simple stubby look' isn't evident in the film so it doesn't make much difference.
Right. You see them as something like this
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jamescamerononline.com%2Fredshadow.png&hash=39bec65b555364d1b961f9808f26d31f5ba64db0)
Plus, if you wanna discard animatronics as the main aliens then discard Badejo from alien as well. After all he only played in two scenes, the rest was done by people same size of the guys from aliens. Hell, even same exact people like Eddie Powell who played the alien in the Brett and Dallas scene and was one of the aliens in Aliens as well
I can tell with the one that jumps on Dietrich, the practical ones in the ceiling, the jumpers during the last stand, the one that drake shoots and the sentry gun victims. It may just be that ive seen them too much, but for as long as i can remember I thought they were short and stubby.
Edit: and yea the Alien is a composite depending on scene, the quality of the original, practical or otherwise is much better than in Aliens. Its still my favorite move so do I care not really. Just pointing it out. :laugh:
The one Drake shoots is barely visible behind flames and is on screen for less than a second... ???
Quote from: Aceburster on Jun 25, 2012, 12:26:57 AM
I can tell with the one that jumps on Dietrich, the practical ones in the ceiling, the jumpers during the last stand, the one that drake shoots and the sentry gun victims. It may just be that ive seen them too much, but for as long as i can remember I thought they were short and stubby.
Well they werent. Judging by pictures , they were about the size of Cameron who is 6'2. And again, its the same guy who was Alien in Brett and Dallas scenes. And we dont actually see them in relation to a human, not the stunt people, only puppets. Same principle as in the first movie - for revealing sshots and shots that showed the size, a hero alien was used. Bolaji in Alien for Lambert and Narcissus interior scenes, and puppets in Aliens, many, many times.
That selectivism that you do can be applied to the first movie as well, where you can say that the same "chubby and small" guy looks terrible. After all, same guy had probably as much screentime as alien in Alien as Bolaji
Quote from: SM on Jun 25, 2012, 12:31:42 AM
The one Drake shoots is barely visible behind flames and is on screen for less than a second... ???
Do you dislike my attention to detail?
No, just your odd selection of data to support your argument.
And of course, I use the term chubby sarcastically cause none of those people were out of shape. They were dancers and gymnasts in top notch shape naturally. I just simply dont like those false legends like "warrior is a complete redesign from scratch, aliens in Aliens were fat midgets, original alien had nothing to do with insects and Kanes son was actually a space Jack the Ripper" etc
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 25, 2012, 12:38:27 AM
And of course, I use the term chubby sarcastically cause none of those people were out of shape. They were dancers and gymnasts in top notch shape naturally. I just simply dont like those false legends like "warrior is a complete redesign from scratch, aliens in Aliens were fat midgets, original alien had nothing to do with insects and Kanes son was actually a space Jack the Ripper" etc
Oh I hear ya, its like the "acid spittting" myth lol. I cant say that the Aliens were out of shape, just effectively 2 feet shorter than how the first one was portrayed. Predators suffer some of the same problems, some of it is how scenes were shot, who was in the suit, how much of it was revealed in frame. Really its the detailing of the suit that sticks out to me as well as how deeply seated the head is into the neck, length of the legs compared to the torso.
Quote from: Aceburster on Jun 25, 2012, 12:53:06 AM
Oh I hear ya, its like the "acid spittting" myth lol. I cant say that the Aliens were out of shape, just effectively 2 feet shorter than how the first one was portrayed.
Cant say I agree with that. In both movies in scenes where theyre next to people, everyone looks up very high
There's an "acid spitting myth"?
Quote from: SM on Jun 25, 2012, 12:58:37 AM
There's an "acid spitting myth"?
Of course, people said it way before it showed up in one of the movies lol
The what now?
i can only assume that refers to alien 3, or perhaps, the queen before she stabs bishop.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Jun 25, 2012, 01:20:14 AM
i can only assume that refers to alien 3, or perhaps, the queen before she stabs bishop.
Well in Alien 3 he does spit acid
Nah, people said it before Alien 3 existed, my friends and I made note of it after seeing it in the theater. Its like the "Luke I am your father" thing, was always there, but was wrong.
Who said it before Alien3?
Im trying to find quotes actually, but much more comes up from A:R, I recall not only friends and parents describing acid spit in regard to the Alien, but lines from TV shows, commercials, newspapers, tv guide descriptions, game magazines when describing Aliens and Alien type creatures. It was one of those things I would laugh about when I read or heard it.
Feel free to tell me im wrong though, this one really doesnt even matter.
Don't have the faintest clue what you're on about. Anything written about acid spit before Alien3 came about was speculation, anything after, wasn't.
Did the facehugger "acid spit" to get inside Kane's helmet? Just asking. Probably not relevant to the convo, seeing as it's not an "adult".
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jun 25, 2012, 02:08:46 AM
Did the facehugger "acid spit" to get inside Kane's helmet? Just asking. Probably not relevant to the convo, seeing as it's not an "adult".
That could very well be where it came from in all honesty.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jun 25, 2012, 02:08:46 AM
Did the facehugger "acid spit" to get inside Kane's helmet? Just asking. Probably not relevant to the convo, seeing as it's not an "adult".
Secrete more than spit I'd reckon.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Jun 25, 2012, 01:20:14 AMthe queen before she stabs bishop.
I think that's from Ripley going apeshit and shooting up the nest. She was probably wounded. She did tear off her eggsac.
It's not very clear in Alien 3, but it was still growing at that time, so maybe it just squirted some acid while molting.
It's very clear it's "Alien venom" in Resurrection.
It's spit in Alien3.
Unknown why the Queen was bleeding on the dropship. Unlikely to be from damage back at the colony. Prolly cut herself on some piece of landing gear equipment.
Quote from: Gilfryd on Jun 25, 2012, 02:16:26 AM
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Jun 25, 2012, 01:20:14 AMthe queen before she stabs bishop.
I think that's from Ripley going apeshit and shooting up the nest. She was probably wounded. She did tear off her eggsac.
It's not very clear in Alien 3, but it was still growing at that time, so maybe it just squirted some acid while molting.
It's very clear it's "Alien venom" in Resurrection.
The script actually says it spits acid
Quote from: SM on Jun 25, 2012, 02:19:11 AMUnlikely to be from damage back at the colony. Prolly cut herself on some piece of landing gear equipment.
How's it unlikely when Ripley was shooting a machine gun and throwing grenades everywhere? But landing gear, that makes more sense. ::)
Flight time from the Sulaco to the colony is 50 minutes. Likely to be the same (if not longer) on the way back.
So she bled that whole time with no apparent damage to the dropship?
Considering the extremely quick healing of the hugger in Alien, and the fact the Queen didn't continue to bleed all over the Sulaco hangar, it's more than likely was a very recent injury that healed quickly.
Best rethink using that rolley eyes smiley lest you look like a twat...
Quote from: SM on Jun 26, 2012, 01:23:25 AMSo she bled that whole time with no apparent damage to the dropship?
It's obvious it wasn't a huge, gaping wound. Just a little dribble. Plus it's a movie.
QuoteBest rethink using that rolley eyes smiley lest you look like a twat...
Yeah, nice job editing that in.
no mods here.
QuoteIt's obvious it wasn't a huge, gaping wound. Just a little dribble. Plus it's a movie.
Translation: "I have no adequate response, so I'll resort to the 'it's a movie' cop out."
Quote from: SM on Jun 26, 2012, 10:41:51 PMTranslation: "I have no adequate response, so I'll resort to the 'it's a movie' cop out."
QuoteIt's obvious it wasn't a huge, gaping wound. Just a little dribble.
I don't mean to argue but I'm just going by what's presented in the movie.
And, as I said, considering Aliens heal quick and a dribble all the way up from the planet would've caused a hull breach or damage to the landing gear - it's unlikely to be damage from the nest.
Let's remain civil. Annnd on topic.
Alien3 isnt much to talk about, since its a dog alien in that flick. Aliens feauture mostly warrior-aliens, and Alien rez, features all of them. what you think of when hearing the word Alien is entirely up to you, but two things people often forget is that the
aliens are kind of bio-mechanical creatures, they have "tubes" and such going around their body, and secondly, they have six fingers, bu theyhld them together, so they look like they have three fingers. In Avp, they didnt look very bio-mech, and they suddenly had three fingers instead of six.
Quote from: Edvin on Jun 29, 2012, 04:47:07 PM
Alien3 isnt much to talk about, since its a dog alien in that flick. Aliens feauture mostly warrior-aliens, and Alien rez, features all of them. what you think of when hearing the word Alien is entirely up to you, but two things people often forget is that the
aliens are kind of bio-mechanical creatures, they have "tubes" and such going around their body, and secondly, they have six fingers, bu theyhld them together, so they look like they have three fingers. In Avp, they didnt look very bio-mech, and they suddenly had three fingers instead of six.
They werent biomech in Res either, also AVP and Rez aliens are the same, just repainted. To show an example, heres a shoulder of Giger alien and Rez alien
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jamescamerononline.com%2F79shoulder.jpg&hash=cf7931a2a0ab7e1d63e749d06265d354e69b9ab2)(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa277%2Flovegunner%2FAVP%2Fresshoulder.jpg&hash=d4b73f1fb6ff1dffcd71dbf9e8a063b88de32154)
Giger neck and Rez neck
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jamescamerononline.com%2Fneck1979.jpg&hash=272c2fec85fc1423f14c7b444bc1373fd98bec61)(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa277%2Flovegunner%2FAVP%2Fresneck.jpg&hash=70dbb07bfeeb08b0b7773fa380162f586aeacb80)
well, the Rez alien looks all covered in slime, but i guess you right, Ressurection gave the Alien these "dinosaur-legs" and that was also totally insane.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 29, 2012, 05:27:44 PM
Quote from: Edvin on Jun 29, 2012, 04:47:07 PM
Alien3 isnt much to talk about, since its a dog alien in that flick. Aliens feauture mostly warrior-aliens, and Alien rez, features all of them. what you think of when hearing the word Alien is entirely up to you, but two things people often forget is that the
aliens are kind of bio-mechanical creatures, they have "tubes" and such going around their body, and secondly, they have six fingers, bu theyhld them together, so they look like they have three fingers. In Avp, they didnt look very bio-mech, and they suddenly had three fingers instead of six.
They werent biomech in Res either, also AVP and Rez aliens are the same, just repainted. To show an example, heres a shoulder of Giger alien and Rez alien
http://www.jamescamerononline.com/79shoulder.jpghttp://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/lovegunner/AVP/resshoulder.jpg
Giger neck and Rez neck
http://www.jamescamerononline.com/neck1979.jpghttp://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/lovegunner/AVP/resneck.jpg
My goodness that is one HELL of a shit-awful re-design. I mean, they could hardly have done worse if they had
intentionally set out to make a terrible design.
Quote from: AlienatedPredator on Jun 29, 2012, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 29, 2012, 05:27:44 PM
Quote from: Edvin on Jun 29, 2012, 04:47:07 PM
Alien3 isnt much to talk about, since its a dog alien in that flick. Aliens feauture mostly warrior-aliens, and Alien rez, features all of them. what you think of when hearing the word Alien is entirely up to you, but two things people often forget is that the
aliens are kind of bio-mechanical creatures, they have "tubes" and such going around their body, and secondly, they have six fingers, bu theyhld them together, so they look like they have three fingers. In Avp, they didnt look very bio-mech, and they suddenly had three fingers instead of six.
They werent biomech in Res either, also AVP and Rez aliens are the same, just repainted. To show an example, heres a shoulder of Giger alien and Rez alien
http://www.jamescamerononline.com/79shoulder.jpghttp://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/lovegunner/AVP/resshoulder.jpg
Giger neck and Rez neck
http://www.jamescamerononline.com/neck1979.jpghttp://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/lovegunner/AVP/resneck.jpg
My goodness that is one HELL of a shit-awful re-design. I mean, they could hardly have done worse if they had intentionally set out to make a terrible design.
And imagine they actually said theyve done a better job than Giger and that people dont understand the term biomechanical
Quote from: Edvin on Jun 29, 2012, 05:32:57 PM
well, the Rez alien looks all covered in slime,
Even so, all the biomech elemnts were removed and flesh was added. The skeletal torso was a separate piece, here its molded with arms with muscles. All the little tubes on the hands and grates were removed or molded into the flesh. Giger called their design an unshaped puddle of mud
I agree with Giger. The more and more organic it becomes, the worse it looks. Plus, it becomes even more generic. The biomechanical designs of the first make it original, and much creepier.
Quotewell, the Rez alien looks all covered in slime, but i guess you right, Ressurection gave the Alien these "dinosaur-legs" and that was also totally insane.
Just as insane as an Alien Queen having them.
I wouldn't say that its the leg design per se that's ridiculous, just that it doesn't fit the Alien Resurrection design. It worked very well on the Queen in Aliens.
Why does it fit the Queen (and Fiorina Alien) and not the Auriga Alien?
I don't know, exactly. Maybe its just that the "regular" Aliens prior to Alien Resurrection never had legs built like that, but the Queen had it from the start.
So where did she get it from?
I just chalk it up to that being the traditional look for an Alien Queen, regardless of host.
And is the Auriga Alien 'traditional'?
No, the Auriga Aliens were, obviously, clones. Their DNA was tampered with, and human DNA (Ripley, to be specific) was thrown into the mix. Which is why I don't really understand the legs, other than that it was simply the design choice of the makers. No Aliens (Queen aside) before had legs like that, and I think its safe to say that Ripley didn't either.
I guess, if you really look into it, you could say the legs ended up that way because, in the mess of DNA that caused the whole little science experiment on the Auriga, it could be explained that the legs were like that because of Queen DNA.
Really, it doesn't matter to me why they are like that. Just that they are, and I accept it, but prefer the older versions.
Quoteit could be explained that the legs were like that because of Queen DNA.
Bingo! I knew we'd get there eventually. ;D
does anyone know what DNA even is on this site anymore
DNA mix, genetic crossing; all the same for purposes of discussion.
it's getting annoying now. we used to ignore nature to make this work, not intentionally smear it.
I imagine it's been annoying for anyone with knowledge of such things for a long time. I also imagine it won't change anytime soon.
Quote from: AlienatedPredator on Jun 29, 2012, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 29, 2012, 05:27:44 PM
Quote from: Edvin on Jun 29, 2012, 04:47:07 PM
Alien3 isnt much to talk about, since its a dog alien in that flick. Aliens feauture mostly warrior-aliens, and Alien rez, features all of them. what you think of when hearing the word Alien is entirely up to you, but two things people often forget is that the
aliens are kind of bio-mechanical creatures, they have "tubes" and such going around their body, and secondly, they have six fingers, bu theyhld them together, so they look like they have three fingers. In Avp, they didnt look very bio-mech, and they suddenly had three fingers instead of six.
They werent biomech in Res either, also AVP and Rez aliens are the same, just repainted. To show an example, heres a shoulder of Giger alien and Rez alien
http://www.jamescamerononline.com/79shoulder.jpghttp://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/lovegunner/AVP/resshoulder.jpg
Giger neck and Rez neck
http://www.jamescamerononline.com/neck1979.jpghttp://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/lovegunner/AVP/resneck.jpg
My goodness that is one HELL of a shit-awful re-design. I mean, they could hardly have done worse if they had intentionally set out to make a terrible design.
Heres more of the "brilliant" ADI redesign. Gigers/Winstons on top, ADI on the bottom. Talking about completely discarding biomechanicality, eh?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa277%2Flovegunner%2FAVP%2Fphoto-8.jpg&hash=ce11e77f334be496db58cde4dbcdc972cb872221)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa277%2Flovegunner%2FAVP%2Fadiflesh.jpg&hash=2280240de3805c1a1b3e83b94de9ea83b3c2b2a3)
that it does IT DOES look like a mutated abomination. but nobody, ever, ever wanted to see that in the first place.
i think the worst part is the attitude they had regarding it.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Jul 02, 2012, 03:27:07 AM
that it does IT DOES look like a mutated abomination. but nobody, ever, ever wanted to see that in the first place.
i think the worst part is the attitude they had regarding it.
Of course, what should have happened is the suits seeing these things in pre-production and then saying "Your incompetent asses are fired. We'll get Winston or someone else with a functioning cerebrum". Unfortunately that didn't happen.
A. The Resurrection Aliens were mutants, a consequence of the imperfect cloning process;
B. What ADI designed and built was approved by the director.
i meant the audiences. the general reception for those designs was poor at best. they were very lazy and unsatisfying as designs and very generic as monsters.
I was not replying to your post, bro. :)
Quote[A. The Resurrection Aliens were mutants, a consequence of the imperfect cloning process;
B. What ADI designed and built was approved by the director.
And that includes Fincher. Who, it would seem, didn't quite know what he wanted.
General audience reception is neither here nor there. The average punter will recognise the same basic shape as the original Alien and not get hung up on all the minor changes.
Quote from: SM on Jul 02, 2012, 11:27:52 PM
And that includes Fincher. Who, it would seem, didn't quite know what he wanted.
Indeed! It was him who wanted the 'literal' mechanical parts (real tubes and pipes) gone (see here (http://www.michaelbiehn.co.uk/data/articles/aliens/aliens5403.html), the square right above the Alien's tail) -- that would be why the Runner relies most on airbrushing for its textures.
Additionally, I also remember about the dorsal tubes -- did not want them at first, then he wanted them when the suits were completed, saw the suits with the tubes, did not like them and decided to go back to the tubeless look. At least that's what I remember, not entirely sure though.
I always thought the dorsal tubes were removed from the get-go because logically they would prevent the Alien's head from being able to swivel. I didn't know there was to and fro about that. I think even Giger's design didn't have dorsal tubes if I remember right.
I really like the runner design, though. It's still very exoskeletal and I liked its very sleek head. ADI really took the design too far off the chart after that, though.
As a side note, notice in the video games now they make the dorsal tubes on the human born aliens bend out of the way of the head?
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jul 03, 2012, 10:54:07 AM
see here (http://www.michaelbiehn.co.uk/data/articles/aliens/aliens5403.html)
That makes me so angry. >:(
Quote from: Alien³ on Jul 03, 2012, 09:36:17 PM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jul 03, 2012, 10:54:07 AM
see here (http://www.michaelbiehn.co.uk/data/articles/aliens/aliens5403.html)
That makes me so angry. >:(
Agreed! Stick to the films!
Like your avatar picture by the way :D
QuoteAt least that's what I remember, not entirely sure though.
Correct. Article in Empire back when Alien3 came out.
Quote from: AcidForBlood on Jul 03, 2012, 10:22:45 PM
Quote from: Alien³ on Jul 03, 2012, 09:36:17 PM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jul 03, 2012, 10:54:07 AM
see here (http://www.michaelbiehn.co.uk/data/articles/aliens/aliens5403.html)
That makes me so angry. >:(
Agreed! Stick to the films!
Like your avatar picture by the way :D
Thank you kind sir.
Is there any noticeable difference between queen chestburster and warriors from humans? Because Rippley knew the one inside her was a queen...
Quote from: AcidForBlood on Jul 04, 2012, 02:52:01 AM
Is there any noticeable difference between queen chestburster and warriors from humans? Because Rippley knew the one inside her was a queen...
I don't think there's a difference in appearance, but there's a clear difference in gestation time. That Alien was in her for days, a week even (I don't exactly remember the time span of
Alien 3). Its safe to assume that there was something different about it.
Gestation was 3-4 days. Plus it has the start of a Queen's crown.
Quote from: SM on Jul 04, 2012, 02:59:00 AM
Plus it has the start of a Queen's crown.
I thought so considering the boxart, but for some reason all I could remember was the Queen Chestburster in
Alien Resurrection. Although, thinking about it now, its obvious that it doesn't have the crown because it was removed premature.
Yup.
Thanks. I knew about the gestation time but... i don't know, kinda jumping to conclusions for me. But I agree, thanks.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jul 03, 2012, 10:54:07 AM
Quote from: SM on Jul 02, 2012, 11:27:52 PM
And that includes Fincher. Who, it would seem, didn't quite know what he wanted.
Indeed! It was him who wanted the 'literal' mechanical parts (real tubes and pipes) gone (see here (http://www.michaelbiehn.co.uk/data/articles/aliens/aliens5403.html), the square right above the Alien's tail) -- that would be why the Runner relies most on airbrushing for its textures.
Additionally, I also remember about the dorsal tubes -- did not want them at first, then he wanted them when the suits were completed, saw the suits with the tubes, did not like them and decided to go back to the tubeless look. At least that's what I remember, not entirely sure though.
The scan says he didnt want the tubes, but to be honest I have a hard time believing he would want to discard ALL the mechanical aspects of the creature alltogether. That still smells like ADI's idea
Fincher apparently buggerised around between ADI and Giger. It's very easy to blame ADI, but they're there to do a job under the direction of the director. If the Alien design isn't to someone's liking, then perhaps look to the guy who approved it; not just the guys who designed it.
I think if there was a lot of going back and forth with the design, perhaps Fincher couldn't exactly find what he was after and eventually had to settle for something. Who knows? I got the impression they were short on time also when watching that video about their intercommunication with Giger. So I think maybe Fincher wasn't totally in control with this but did have to make a decision at some point.
Quote from: SM on Jul 04, 2012, 05:14:13 AM
Fincher apparently buggerised around between ADI and Giger. It's very easy to blame ADI, but they're there to do a job under the direction of the director. If the Alien design isn't to someone's liking, then perhaps look to the guy who approved it; not just the guys who designed it.
The primary reason why I blame ADI, besides them actually designing it, is how in the interviews theyre so proud of their "perfected" alien design and how they slamm Giger's and say they got it better than him, and how they did a real biomech and people dont understand what it means. That sort of thing. And of course they went into that direction even further in subsequent movies. Not to mention their Rez and AVP designs look awfully similar to Pumpkinhead, their first creation
Oh man failure so hard with that Anderson quote. "Were going back to the original". Jesus christ what was he on!!??
Quote from: Sexy Poot on Jul 05, 2012, 02:15:21 AM
Oh man failure so hard with that Anderson quote. "Were going back to the original". Jesus christ what was he on!!??
He was on high doses of egotism, entitlement, and denial.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jul 04, 2012, 04:13:42 PM
Quote from: SM on Jul 04, 2012, 05:14:13 AM
Fincher apparently buggerised around between ADI and Giger. It's very easy to blame ADI, but they're there to do a job under the direction of the director. If the Alien design isn't to someone's liking, then perhaps look to the guy who approved it; not just the guys who designed it.
The primary reason why I blame ADI, besides them actually designing it, is how in the interviews theyre so proud of their "perfected" alien design and how they slamm Giger's and say they got it better than him, and how they did a real biomech and people dont understand what it means. That sort of thing. And of course they went into that direction even further in subsequent movies. Not to mention their Rez and AVP designs look awfully similar to Pumpkinhead, their first creation
I think its you being sensitive. I never heard them "slamm" nether giger or his original designs. and I watched
the most. and why shouldn't they be proud? their design is very cool
in its own right.
Quote from: bobby brown on Jul 05, 2012, 01:29:40 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jul 04, 2012, 04:13:42 PM
Quote from: SM on Jul 04, 2012, 05:14:13 AM
Fincher apparently buggerised around between ADI and Giger. It's very easy to blame ADI, but they're there to do a job under the direction of the director. If the Alien design isn't to someone's liking, then perhaps look to the guy who approved it; not just the guys who designed it.
The primary reason why I blame ADI, besides them actually designing it, is how in the interviews theyre so proud of their "perfected" alien design and how they slamm Giger's and say they got it better than him, and how they did a real biomech and people dont understand what it means. That sort of thing. And of course they went into that direction even further in subsequent movies. Not to mention their Rez and AVP designs look awfully similar to Pumpkinhead, their first creation
I think its you being sensitive. I never heard them "slamm" nether giger or his original designs. and I watched the most. and why shouldn't they be proud? their design is very cool in its own right.
Trust me , its there. If someone can post those quotes itd be great, and theyre actually the reason why I dislike those people so much. I always hated their designs from A:R on, but defended them , thinking that not everyone can be Giger or Winston, and that theyre doing their best, so I cant yank them for not being as good as some of the biggest design names in movies. But after IOve read how theyve done a better job than Giger, everything turned around for me
QuoteIf someone can post those quotes itd be great
Why don't you post them?
I've never heard them "slamm" Giger's work.
Quote from: SM on Jul 07, 2012, 02:49:05 AM
QuoteIf someone can post those quotes itd be great
Why don't you post them?
I've never heard them "slamm" Giger's work.
I dont have them saved. I first read them when valaquen posted em
Here, found it but for source you have to go to val
I don't mean to be pompous, but his own suit wasn't accurate to his paintings. Our goal was to sculpt Giger's designs into repeating organic textures, almost like dear antlers. We also put more colour into the Alien, which was originally just black and sepia. Since the effects of Alien 3 wouldn't have the spectacle of the last film, we wanted to make this creature into a believable organism.'Alec Gillis.
We tried to give it an organic, sculptural feel and remain truer to his [Giger's] concepts than he had been. Some of the things he had done in the first film were completely serendipitous.'Alec Gillis
They also calim their AVP:R aliens had better head designs/ridges than Gigers/Winstons
I actually sculpted the original Alien head for Cameron's version, so I think what we've done this time has been more expertly sculpted than what I did last time, because the guy was better. [laughs] But also, it was just more interesting shapes.
You have a funny definition (and spelling) of "slam". Especially when the guy points out he's not trying to be pompous.
If you look at the original inspiration for the Alien in the Necronom piece, the ADI design is closer to it. Giger had others like Riddles putting their two cents in for stuff like the dorsal pipes which Giger didn't dare for. ADI didn't seem to have the same level of interference. And their design for Alien3 is extremely close to Giger's design for that film anyway.
Quote from: SM on Jul 07, 2012, 03:04:39 AM
You have a funny definition (and spelling) of "slam". Especially when the guy points out he's not trying to be pompous.
And then he IS pompus. Its like saying " I dont wanna be intrusive, but" and being it. Theyre always so smug about their work that they successfully incorporated their beloved original design of Pumpkinhead into alien, eventually turning one into another
QuoteIf you look at the original inspiration for the Alien in the Necronom piece, the ADI design is closer to it.
No, none of them were close. The Necronom looked like a decaying human body, it didnt look like the skeleton with engine parts or a skeleton with muscles and big neck
QuoteGiger had others like Riddles putting their two cents in for stuff like the dorsal pipes which Giger didn't dare for.
Either way, the kind of biomechanicality that we see in the original alien didnt come from Ridley, and was always part of Gigers art. he didnt accidentally come up with such great stuff, and also didnt aim to faithfully reconstruct the necronomicon figure. He incorporated ideas from the painting and came up with new, biomech design, very much in vein of what he was always doing
the most recognizable elements from their designs, the hips, the shoulders, the massive jaw and the protruding ribcage came from absolutely nowhere, i can't find a single painting or concept with them before A:R.
Hey guys, I added a pole up top. Vote if ya like. ;D
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Jul 07, 2012, 03:11:36 AM
the most recognizable elements from their designs, the hips, the shoulders, the massive jaw and the protruding ribcage came from absolutely nowhere, i can't find a single painting or concept with them before A:R.
Check their own design of Pumpkinhead
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa277%2Flovegunner%2FAVP%2Fpumpkin.jpg&hash=724dfd5c9759f81650077aecacb5001898a007b6)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa277%2Flovegunner%2FAVP%2F2nmy68.jpg&hash=16b0f8d57aee5e6bfa7a39a1dc8d38262efa610b)
Looks like the A:R was reused to me. No differences (that I see) in design except color of course.
Tis amusing the lengths people will go to to slate ADI, simply because they don't like their designs... :laugh:
Not saying don't like them. Just saying the similarities are there...
Wasn't aimed at you.
Quote from: SM on Jul 07, 2012, 03:16:33 AM
Tis amusing the lengths people will go to to slate ADI, simply because they don't like their designs... :laugh:
I read their comments as pompous and belittling others work, while making their own seem grander. I find their redesigns offensive to the original biomechanoid of Gigers. I mean, how can you go from one to another and claim yours better, with all the flesh and warts as oppose to biomechanicality
And I dont think its a coincidence that their alien resembles Pumpkinhead so much. I think theyre so in love with their own design that they shoehorned it into alien movies
Could be true, not that they'll admit it. Not taking sides though.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jul 07, 2012, 03:14:42 AM
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Jul 07, 2012, 03:11:36 AM
the most recognizable elements from their designs, the hips, the shoulders, the massive jaw and the protruding ribcage came from absolutely nowhere, i can't find a single painting or concept with them before A:R.
Check their own design of Pumpkinhead
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/lovegunner/AVP/pumpkin.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/lovegunner/AVP/2nmy68.jpg
yeah i know. i just wonder what paintings SM said they were taken from.
ADI´s aliens still doesn't look bad, and their actual effects, animatronics and stuff is very impressive. (AVPR excluded)
perhaps it is indeed a shame they didn't use more classic designs, but that's the directions they where given.
People who say ADI sucks simply because their designs is not their favoured, simply strikes my as retarded.
Quote from: bobby brown on Jul 07, 2012, 01:34:50 PM
ADI´s aliens still doesn't look bad, and their actual effects, animatronics and stuff is very impressive. (AVPR excluded)
perhaps it is indeed a shame they didn't use more classic designs, but that's the directions they where given.
People who say ADI sucks simply because their designs is not their favoured, simply strikes my as retarded.
I dont believe its a coincidence that just about every director of every alien movie that featured ADI wanted fleshy design, and I also dont believe its a coincidence its so close to Pumpkinhead design, so I dont buy that the directors wanted it. I think ADI suggested it. And again, normally I wouldnt rag on ADI for having inferior designs, not everyone can be Giger or Winston, thats unfair, but I dislike them for their attitude and delusions of grandeur