I'm just curious, what is the current dominant theory about Prometheus's storyline? I mean, when I was here checking this board a month ago, the theories regarding the plot, the engineers, specific characters seemed somewhat different. I'm up to date on the trailers, but feel I'm still missing some info. I'm just curious what the dominant theory is right now regarding the film's plot. My apologizes if this doesn't merit it's own thread, didn't want to spam an already existing one.
You sir are about to be told they entire storyline... in 3, 2, 1...
Everyone dies in the end. Mostly.
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 02, 2012, 06:22:32 AM
Everyone dies in the end. Mostly.
It would be ironic if everyone lived ;D
Spoiler
They all melting together into one big organic mass, so the SJ can grow to its full size in the chair...
Its the Smurfs. ;)
They find the jockeys,access holographic last records of the ship. snakehuggers share some love,people die and then probably get stranded on the surface. hold hands and sing songs while crying and fade to credits.
The engineer dude rapes Vickers in the chair. Then kicks her out of the derelict in the middle of the flight. Then the end credits.
Ask somebody from FOX 8)
The plot is very simmiliar to Lovercrafts Mountain of Madness,
SJ = Elder Things
Creature crouched next to SJ in mural = Shoggoths
Yet to be identified creature = Terrible evil being that drives people insane
You know, I'm not so sure I'd be happy seeing a tentacle monster... however wasn't the shaggoths a black slime? We do see black oily things coming out of the urns.
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 02, 2012, 09:54:18 AM
You know, I'm not so sure I'd be happy seeing a tentacle monster... however wasn't the shaggoths a black slime? We do see black oily things coming out of the urns.
You're right in the book they were slimy creatures. However, I assume they wont copy the Shaggoths that directly. I'm thinking more along the lines of a creature created to serve the SJ but eventually turns on them just like the Shaggoths did on the Elders.
Whole prometheus is in Predator training holo world. Before the ending credits kick in, the hiologram goes off, predator comes to shaw, gives her 16th century gun and says: "good work here you done"
Is Prometheus going to flat out state that humans were made by a higher intelligence being? Who all along has also been giving us knowledge? And that the universe is full of alien life. I remember a Ridley interview where he said that he believed it was mathematically improbable for man to be where man is without help. Then is he going to mix that with HP Lovecraft? Where we have us, then space jockeys and then the shit hits the fan and just keeps getting worse. Maybe even to the point that the entire reason we want the alien is because we need it to save our own skin? However all along no one wants to admit the truth to the public because it is just that horrible of a nightmare.
I think human development, the Engineers and the Xenos are all intertwined and the connetion are as dark and unplesant as you can imagine.
I went and read Mountains of Madness after it kept cropping up in discussions on here, and whilst I think it's a potentially good template for Prometheus (I reckon the Shoggoths are the xenos)....
BUT
I found Lovecraft's style to be utterly interminable, pompous and melodramatic. Just my opinion of course.
I do think that the SJ technology will revolve around symbiotic biology - they think nothing of popping on a facehugger as a breathing mask, or using members of their own race as receptacles for new biomechnoids.
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 02, 2012, 06:22:32 AM
Everyone dies in the end. Mostly.
Probably the perfect summary at this point!
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 02, 2012, 11:06:33 AM
Is Prometheus going to flat out state that humans were made by a higher intelligence being? Who all along has also been giving us knowledge? And that the universe is full of alien life. I remember a Ridley interview where he said that he believed it was mathematically improbable for man to be where man is without help. Then is he going to mix that with HP Lovecraft? Where we have us, then space jockeys and then the shit hits the fan and just keeps getting worse. Maybe even to the point that the entire reason we want the alien is because we need it to save our own skin? However all along no one wants to admit the truth to the public because it is just that horrible of a nightmare.
i just had a great idea.
Prometheus could be the starting point of a Space Jockey "invasion" so to speak. or maybe its just a rather small group of SJ remnants that want to attack earth and destroy it, so not a really big "invasion", but you know what i mean. the SJs want to destory earth.
so Weyland Corp pretty much f*cked this up, but simultaneously they find out about the ALIEN creature (maybe even in Prometheus?), which is the ultimate weapon, created by the Space Jockeys, and the only thing in the universe that could stop them.
so when Weyland Corp back on earth realise that earth is going to be attacked, they more or less spontaneously decide that one of their mining vessels, the Nostromo, goes to search for that ALIEN creature because mankind needs this bioweapon to survive.
this would also explain why in the first three alien movies the WY corp is so eager for the Xeno creature.
assuming that LV-426 was the only place where Xenos ever had been found, after Ripley nuked the place it was the Companys last chance to find Ripley on Fury 161 to get hold of their ultimate Weapon against the Space Jockeys.
so to sum this up:
ALIEN Trilogy = Weyland-Yutani's search for the anti-Space Jockey weapon
Prometheus (+sequels) = Weyland-Yutani's story of direct encounters and struggling with the Space Jockeys (maybe eventually they find another way to defeat them)
Quote from: EGM1966 on May 02, 2012, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 02, 2012, 06:22:32 AM
Everyone dies in the end. Mostly.
Probably the perfect summary at this point!
I think Shaw will survive..or Vickers...my bet is on Shaw.
Quote from: Zeta Reticuli on May 02, 2012, 02:40:36 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 02, 2012, 11:06:33 AM
Is Prometheus going to flat out state that humans were made by a higher intelligence being? Who all along has also been giving us knowledge? And that the universe is full of alien life. I remember a Ridley interview where he said that he believed it was mathematically improbable for man to be where man is without help. Then is he going to mix that with HP Lovecraft? Where we have us, then space jockeys and then the shit hits the fan and just keeps getting worse. Maybe even to the point that the entire reason we want the alien is because we need it to save our own skin? However all along no one wants to admit the truth to the public because it is just that horrible of a nightmare.
i just had a great idea.
Prometheus could be the starting point of a Space Jockey "invasion" so to speak. or maybe its just a rather small group of SJ remnants that want to attack earth and destroy it, so not a really big "invasion", but you know what i mean. the SJs want to destory earth.
so Weyland Corp pretty much f*cked this up, but simultaneously they find out about the ALIEN creature (maybe even in Prometheus?), which is the ultimate weapon, created by the Space Jockeys, and the only thing in the universe that could stop them.
so when Weyland Corp back on earth realise that earth is going to be attacked, they more or less spontaneously decide that one of their mining vessels, the Nostromo, goes to search for that ALIEN creature because mankind needs this bioweapon to survive.
this would also explain why in the first three alien movies the WY corp is so eager for the Xeno creature.
assuming that LV-426 was the only place where Xenos ever had been found, after Ripley nuked the place it was the Companys last chance to find Ripley on Fury 161 to get hold of their ultimate Weapon against the Space Jockeys.
so to sum this up:
ALIEN Trilogy = Weyland-Yutani's search for the anti-Space Jockey weapon
Prometheus (+sequels) = Weyland-Yutani's story of direct encounters and struggling with the Space Jockeys (maybe eventually they find another way to defeat them)
i like it!
Quote from: Zeta Reticuli on May 02, 2012, 02:40:36 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 02, 2012, 11:06:33 AM
Is Prometheus going to flat out state that humans were made by a higher intelligence being? Who all along has also been giving us knowledge? And that the universe is full of alien life. I remember a Ridley interview where he said that he believed it was mathematically improbable for man to be where man is without help. Then is he going to mix that with HP Lovecraft? Where we have us, then space jockeys and then the shit hits the fan and just keeps getting worse. Maybe even to the point that the entire reason we want the alien is because we need it to save our own skin? However all along no one wants to admit the truth to the public because it is just that horrible of a nightmare.
i just had a great idea.
Prometheus could be the starting point of a Space Jockey "invasion" so to speak. or maybe its just a rather small group of SJ remnants that want to attack earth and destroy it, so not a really big "invasion", but you know what i mean. the SJs want to destory earth.
so Weyland Corp pretty much f*cked this up, but simultaneously they find out about the ALIEN creature (maybe even in Prometheus?), which is the ultimate weapon, created by the Space Jockeys, and the only thing in the universe that could stop them.
so when Weyland Corp back on earth realise that earth is going to be attacked, they more or less spontaneously decide that one of their mining vessels, the Nostromo, goes to search for that ALIEN creature because mankind needs this bioweapon to survive.
this would also explain why in the first three alien movies the WY corp is so eager for the Xeno creature.
assuming that LV-426 was the only place where Xenos ever had been found, after Ripley nuked the place it was the Companys last chance to find Ripley on Fury 161 to get hold of their ultimate Weapon against the Space Jockeys.
so to sum this up:
ALIEN Trilogy = Weyland-Yutani's search for the anti-Space Jockey weapon
Prometheus (+sequels) = Weyland-Yutani's story of direct encounters and struggling with the Space Jockeys (maybe eventually they find another way to defeat them)
great idea, but there's a problem, the Derelict wasn't destroyed by the nuke; it was really far from there
Quote from: escroto on May 02, 2012, 05:06:56 PM
Quote from: Zeta Reticuli on May 02, 2012, 02:40:36 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 02, 2012, 11:06:33 AM
Is Prometheus going to flat out state that humans were made by a higher intelligence being? Who all along has also been giving us knowledge? And that the universe is full of alien life. I remember a Ridley interview where he said that he believed it was mathematically improbable for man to be where man is without help. Then is he going to mix that with HP Lovecraft? Where we have us, then space jockeys and then the shit hits the fan and just keeps getting worse. Maybe even to the point that the entire reason we want the alien is because we need it to save our own skin? However all along no one wants to admit the truth to the public because it is just that horrible of a nightmare.
i just had a great idea.
Prometheus could be the starting point of a Space Jockey "invasion" so to speak. or maybe its just a rather small group of SJ remnants that want to attack earth and destroy it, so not a really big "invasion", but you know what i mean. the SJs want to destory earth.
so Weyland Corp pretty much f*cked this up, but simultaneously they find out about the ALIEN creature (maybe even in Prometheus?), which is the ultimate weapon, created by the Space Jockeys, and the only thing in the universe that could stop them.
so when Weyland Corp back on earth realise that earth is going to be attacked, they more or less spontaneously decide that one of their mining vessels, the Nostromo, goes to search for that ALIEN creature because mankind needs this bioweapon to survive.
this would also explain why in the first three alien movies the WY corp is so eager for the Xeno creature.
assuming that LV-426 was the only place where Xenos ever had been found, after Ripley nuked the place it was the Companys last chance to find Ripley on Fury 161 to get hold of their ultimate Weapon against the Space Jockeys.
so to sum this up:
ALIEN Trilogy = Weyland-Yutani's search for the anti-Space Jockey weapon
Prometheus (+sequels) = Weyland-Yutani's story of direct encounters and struggling with the Space Jockeys (maybe eventually they find another way to defeat them)
great idea, but there's a problem, the Derelict wasn't destroyed by the nuke; it was really far from there
And aren't Jockeys extict race allready??
Well, I'm not going to lie, none of these posts really made me feel more 'updated' on current theories. "They all die in the end." Really now, how clever.
- Ridley Scott:
The surprise is in the story.
This particular screenplay is about... who made us... where do we go afterwards and how valid is that?
The characters find an establishment which is not what they expected it to be. A civilization, but what we find in it, is very uncivilized behaviour
This is imo the core of the film - the ramifications of us figuring out what sinister agenda our Gods/makers had in mind when they made or shaped us. How deeply will our discovery affect us and what are we going to do about it?
Oh God, this makes me think we were bred just to have stuff put inside of us.
Quote from: Eva on May 02, 2012, 05:26:58 PM
- Ridley Scott:
The surprise is in the story.
This particular screenplay is about... who made us... where do we go afterwards and how valid is that?
The characters find an establishment which is not what they expected it to be. A civilization, but what we find in it, is very uncivilized behaviour
This is imo the core of the film - the ramifications of us figuring out what sinister agenda our Gods/makers had in mind when they made or shaped us. How deeply will our discovery affect us and what are we going to do about it?
We must remember technological achievements do not have to equal moral advancement. But yeah, that is a good 'core' for the film. Now I'm getting excited for this again!
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 02, 2012, 05:37:06 PM
Oh God, this makes me think we were bred just to have stuff put inside of us.
Yeah... I mean, I don't buy the 'standard alien invasion' idea - it's been done to death in like 500 films already and I don't think that concept interests Ridley in the slightest.
What would be extremely unsettling, controversial and
new ground, is the idea that humans were made just to be part of a biomechanoid lifecycle of a higher being. Like the various parasites existing in nature, growing inside other animals as part of their natural lifecycle...
Those facehuggers in Alien sure were a perfect match for a humanoid head, weren't they? And there were thousands of them on that single ship... :'( ;)
^^ I think you may have hit the nail on the head.....
Perhaps the Derelict ship was on its way to seed Earth for the next generation of Space Jockey when something went wrong with the new batch.
Well I think Holloway's answer to David's question of "why make me?"
Spoiler
"Because we could."
That may be just why the Engineers made humanity/terraformed Earth. The Engineer is supposed to be beyond good and evil after all.
Quote from: atlantis on May 02, 2012, 06:47:14 AM
Spoiler
They all melting together into one big organic mass, so the SJ can grow to its full size in the chair...
Im pretty sure that's eerily similar to the plot of a dodgy Dean Koontz novel! :laugh:
Quote from: Zeta Reticuli on May 02, 2012, 02:40:36 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 02, 2012, 11:06:33 AM
Is Prometheus going to flat out state that humans were made by a higher intelligence being? Who all along has also been giving us knowledge? And that the universe is full of alien life. I remember a Ridley interview where he said that he believed it was mathematically improbable for man to be where man is without help. Then is he going to mix that with HP Lovecraft? Where we have us, then space jockeys and then the shit hits the fan and just keeps getting worse. Maybe even to the point that the entire reason we want the alien is because we need it to save our own skin? However all along no one wants to admit the truth to the public because it is just that horrible of a nightmare.
i just had a great idea.
Prometheus could be the starting point of a Space Jockey "invasion" so to speak. or maybe its just a rather small group of SJ remnants that want to attack earth and destroy it, so not a really big "invasion", but you know what i mean. the SJs want to destory earth.
so Weyland Corp pretty much f*cked this up, but simultaneously they find out about the ALIEN creature (maybe even in Prometheus?), which is the ultimate weapon, created by the Space Jockeys, and the only thing in the universe that could stop them.
so when Weyland Corp back on earth realise that earth is going to be attacked, they more or less spontaneously decide that one of their mining vessels, the Nostromo, goes to search for that ALIEN creature because mankind needs this bioweapon to survive.
this would also explain why in the first three alien movies the WY corp is so eager for the Xeno creature.
assuming that LV-426 was the only place where Xenos ever had been found, after Ripley nuked the place it was the Companys last chance to find Ripley on Fury 161 to get hold of their ultimate Weapon against the Space Jockeys.
so to sum this up:
ALIEN Trilogy = Weyland-Yutani's search for the anti-Space Jockey weapon
Prometheus (+sequels) = Weyland-Yutani's story of direct encounters and struggling with the Space Jockeys (maybe eventually they find another way to defeat them)
Sorry but I just can't go along with this one, it makes WY sound like good guys who's real motivations are to save humanity.
The idea of the space jockey "farming" humans would make for a good story but it doesn't fit well into the Prometheus myth. Also Pandora is connected as they apparently open up a box of horror while on the planet that could make the xeno mankind's bet last hope. Hence we probably do see one at the end. The xeno could also be the higher god. Although it'll probably just be a weapon in the jockey's arsenal. A middle tier one at that.
On second thought farming could fit in and Prometheus could be a jockey that fell in love with his creation and maybe even hid us from other sentient beings. In a way he stopped the asteroids from falling. Ridley did say the crew goes back to the beginning of time and does not deal with going forward. So we get to see why the alien universe even exists at all in Prometheus. :)
Weyland being the good guys? That would be a shocker wouldn't it? :P :laugh:
Quote from: jonc2006 on May 02, 2012, 10:22:05 PM
Sorry but I just can't go along with this one, it makes WY sound like good guys who's real motivations are to save humanity.
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 02, 2012, 10:29:35 PM
Weyland being the good guys? That would be a shocker wouldn't it? :P :laugh:
well, it depends on your point of view ;)
assuming the Prometheus mission afterall really was Peter Weyland's personal agenda, meaning that he is taking advantage of being the most influencial person on earth and being leader of the most advanced company, just so he could mess around with an alien race that is much more powerful than we are and thus putting all of mankind in danger - we wouldn't have any problems without Weyland in the first place.
and we wouldn't know - does the WY corp really just want to use the Xeno to defeat the Engineers, or do they still want to overthrow them and steal their technology?
would it be a "good" thing if Weyland-Yutani takes over the technology of the Engineers?
it is obvious that the outcome of the Prometheus mission will be kept a secret. so i doubt any future actions of the Company will be driven by kindhearted motivations.
Quote from: Eva on May 02, 2012, 05:53:03 PM
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 02, 2012, 05:37:06 PM
Oh God, this makes me think we were bred just to have stuff put inside of us.
Yeah... I mean, I don't buy the 'standard alien invasion' idea - it's been done to death in like 500 films already and I don't think that concept interests Ridley in the slightest.
What would be extremely unsettling, controversial and new ground, is the idea that humans were made just to be part of a biomechanoid lifecycle of a higher being. Like the various parasites existing in nature, growing inside other animals as part of their natural lifecycle...
Those facehuggers in Alien sure were a perfect match for a humanoid head, weren't they? And there were thousands of them on that single ship... :'( ;)
Weird, I quoted that similiarity when the first screen with prometheus face popped up, but because I don't have girl photo next to my nickname, they flamed me ;D
Quote from: Ruzena on May 02, 2012, 11:43:14 PM
Weird, I quoted that similiarity when the first screen with prometheus face popped up, but because I don't have girl photo next to my nickname, they flamed me ;D
Well, Eva does have a hot avatar, so flaming would be a bit redundant. :laugh: :P
Quote from: Eva on May 02, 2012, 05:53:03 PMWhat would be extremely unsettling, controversial and new ground, is the idea that humans were made just to be part of a biomechanoid lifecycle of a higher being.
I love this idea and I would buy it, but why would they 'guide' and 'upgrade' us if they only intended for us to be biological husks for breeding new aliens? It kind of throws the whole gods and cave paintings angle out the window (where it belongs IMO). By helping our evolution they must of intended for us to develop into a technological civilization for some reason.
If I had to guess this was all part of a master plan to get us to the point where we
could find them - they wanted us to. That point in our advancement is somehow significant to their plan. Maybe we aren't part of the lifecycle but the biological 'blank' that the engineers augment with their own biology, and maybe that biology is entirely alien and the engineers that we see are a humanoid species no dissimilar to ourselves who have been assimilated by the enigmatic goo.
Maybe the black ooze is pulling all of the strings, like some viruses in nature that do the same, just on much larger scale.
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 02, 2012, 10:29:35 PM
Ridley did say the crew goes back to the beginning of time and does not deal with going forward. So we get to see why the alien universe even exists at all in Prometheus. :)
the crew themselves won't be "at the beginning of time" - that is a scene that explains how the earth we're made inhabitable. and with "not going forward but backwards" ridley did meant the story, the terrain of prometheus. the origin-story.
Quote from: Eva on May 02, 2012, 05:53:03 PM
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 02, 2012, 05:37:06 PM
Oh God, this makes me think we were bred just to have stuff put inside of us.
Yeah... I mean, I don't buy the 'standard alien invasion' idea - it's been done to death in like 500 films already and I don't think that concept interests Ridley in the slightest.
What would be extremely unsettling, controversial and new ground, is the idea that humans were made just to be part of a biomechanoid lifecycle of a higher being. Like the various parasites existing in nature, growing inside other animals as part of their natural lifecycle...
Those facehuggers in Alien sure were a perfect match for a humanoid head, weren't they? And there were thousands of them on that single ship... :'( ;)
I agree, if the Jockey/Engineer will turn out to b our creators then the idea they would come to conquer Earth seems silly. It has also been done to death as you said.
I also agree that the idea we were bred to be biological incubators would be a great plot device, I remember the first time I saw the Matrix and the idea that humans were being bred to be biological batteries was pretty unsettling. I think we as humans being the apex predator on earth think very highly of ourselves. To find out that we are not special snowflakes, would make for a great movie.
Ummmmm where has this been done to death in a movie?
Quote from: EXTERMINATUS on May 03, 2012, 09:07:51 AM
Ummmmm where has this been done to death in a movie?
Farming humans, or using them as a host has been done in a number of very popular films, enough so that you could not say you were being original if you tried to incorporate those elements in another film.
e.g.:
Invasion of the Body Snatchers,
The Thing
The Blob
The Matrix
Alien
None of these deal with aliens using planets to farm humans - but the films more or less would cover the idea. That, and if that were their motivation - I don't see why they wouldn't simply do something far more direct - like putting the ship right on Earth. Besides, Lindelof had described the planet in Prometheus as a sort of way station for these superbeings.
I can't say that you're wrong - but if that were to happen, I am sure Ridley would be disappointing a lot of people, myself included.
ROFL.Ok invasion humans were replicated not farmed.If anything the pods were farmed so wrong there.The Thing absorbed and assimilated beings.So wrong on 2.The blob absorbed or consumed people and got bigger.Again where is the farming.wrong also.3 The matrix u may have minor point but since everything turned out to be a simulation your wrong on that too.Not to mention we were farmed by our own creation in the simultaion.Not whats going on in this movie.That is all.
Oh yeah and none of the movies except alien used people as hosts.Also there was no people farming in Alien and only one person was a host.
I think it would be best to mold our knowledge around the key questions and the myth. This should really be the only starting point, rather than what the eggs mean in Alien, or what the SJ is all about, or what the connection between the two films is.
How is it related to the myth Prometheus?
He stole fire from the Gods to give it as a type of technology to mankind.
Most importantly, what is the fire in this movie? (Try to answer this fundamental question before speculating that Vickers is an alien-cyborg who plans to use SJs to travel back in to time rescue the dinosaurs.)
Scott had said before, that the ship represents a challengeto the gods, and that by crossing that line, very bad things start to happen.
What is this challenge, or how do they cross the line?
Also - the main reason why this expedition takes place is due to Weyland's/Shaw's desire to find the answer of our origin. They are convinced that they left behind maps to come and find them to join them. Why are they wrong? Why are the maps on Earth not an invitation?
One answer is to simply say that there is no fire, that the Aliens/Engineers simply used the planet as a mechanism to stop their creation from getting too advanced (whereby if they were able to travel so far away), and as such send a Juggernaut back to Earth to stop their advancement. This I believe is the most putative response. From here I believe we can add, deduct, and morph the concept based on other things we have heard/seen from trailers, interviews, etc.
Quote from: EXTERMINATUS on May 03, 2012, 10:13:56 AM
ROFL.Ok invasion humans were replicated not farmed.If anything the pods were farmed so wrong there.The Thing absorbed and assimilated beings.So wrong on 2.The blob absorbed or consumed people and got bigger.Again where is the farming.wrong also.3 The matrix u may have minor point but since everything turned out to be a simulation your wrong on that too.Not to mention we were farmed by our own creation in the simultaion.Not whats going on in this movie.That is all.
Oh yeah and none of the movies except alien used people as hosts.Also there was no people farming in Alien and only one person was a host.
All those examples which you cite as being
wrong are in fact examples of humans being little more than live stock. They're used to expand an alien threat akin to animal live stock.
In The Blob it uses humans to grow. That's exactly what people do with cattle.
In The Thing it uses humans to replicate and procreate itself.
In Body Snatchers any time they duplicated a human, they were using that human as food, basically.
Alien is most definitely an example of humans being little more than live stock for the alien.
The Matrix is probably the biggest example here of humans being used as livestock. We are used to power the entire robot empire! We're cultivated, bred for that one purpose.
Quote from: Qwertify on May 03, 2012, 10:40:59 AMMost importantly, what is the fire in this movie?
Maybe the 'invitation' is a counter measure to ensure that we never reach our full potential. Conversely to 2001, the aliens might of left the clue not to signal that we were ready for something, but rather that we had over stepped our bounds and needed to be put back in our place. There is no literal stolen fire, just a level of technology that we were never meant to attain.
Kind of like leaving a key inside a locked rat cage, with an alarm on the lock that signified when it was turned. If the rats figure out how to use the key then holy shit you better stomp on those f**kers, because that is outright terrifying. ;)
Quote from: EXTERMINATUS on May 03, 2012, 10:13:56 AM
ROFL.Ok invasion humans were replicated not farmed.If anything the pods were farmed so wrong there.The Thing absorbed and assimilated beings.So wrong on 2.The blob absorbed or consumed people and got bigger.Again where is the farming.wrong also.3 The matrix u may have minor point but since everything turned out to be a simulation your wrong on that too.Not to mention we were farmed by our own creation in the simultaion.Not whats going on in this movie.That is all.
Oh yeah and none of the movies except alien used people as hosts.Also there was no people farming in Alien and only one person was a host.
Ok, before you start to ROFL and reply, read the entire post next time, please. If it appears that something is obviously wrong to you - then it probably sounded wrong to the person writing it, which means that they either have another or alternate point, or they are just wrong and don't know it.
My point was that Scott doesn't want to tread over old ideas, and that includes combining different ideas from different films. If you take an amalgam of those separate elements from those films, you more or less can get the idea of aliens farming humans. My second point was that, since farming tends to be very cyclical, although it is not impossible to say the aliens are farming Earth, it just seems like a very clunky and indirect way of doing it.
Again - I cannot say you or wrong, not do I think it is a bad idea. In a sense I agree with you. My personal opinion on the matter is that different from yours. I mean - we all know that ship is headed for Earth with ill intent - so there are only so many reasons we can come up with anyways.
EDIT:
I guess a lot of this has just been covered by OpenMaw - but I'm going to post anyways.
My two cents on one of the elements of the story with the cobra vagiana things we have seen in the new trailer these cobra things latch on to charcters and seem to infect them and theyy seem to make the head melt or explode now we have seen shaw infected with something but it makes her stomach swell like pregnace and we have seen dangaling over her head a alien that more closely resembles the facehugger we have seen in other movies so my theory is because shaws a woman she can give the alien infection a more tradional birth but more accelerated.
so they do a suzerain out pops the facehugger we all no and love and this will help move us aloong into the last 8 minutes that have the alien dna
Most of the movies mentioned use humans in one way or another, the idea that would be a great plot device is that the Jockeys/Engineers created and nurtured us in ways similar to both God and a Cattle rancher. This even in the Matrix has not been done... the machines simply turned on us and used us (we already existed, and the battery scene wasn't in a simulation is was in the real world.
We were literally created from nothing to incubate Alien experiments. We were then raised and tended... only not because we were loved or prized creations but so we could be used like a resource. It would be a very overt assertion that we are not the apex in the universe, which most people subconciously believe. In every other invasion movie, you still get the sense that humans are superior for whatever reason; our compassion, love, etc. Aliens are normally represented as merely having superior technology that we must overcome.
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on May 03, 2012, 01:07:36 PMIt would be a very overt assertion that we are not the apex in the universe, which most people subconciously believe.
Alien pretty much made that assertion already.
Yeah well maw was incorrect also.Completely off base.
Quote from: EXTERMINATUS on May 03, 2012, 04:30:22 PM
Yeah well maw was incorrect also.Completely off base.
No, I wasn't. We've explained to you how and why it works. Drop your ego for a minute and think about it, please.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 03, 2012, 02:13:33 PM
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on May 03, 2012, 01:07:36 PMIt would be a very overt assertion that we are not the apex in the universe, which most people subconciously believe.
Alien pretty much made that assertion already.
What I mean is, if I were to take on a 700 lbs. Tiger hand to hand I would lose, if I was to take on a 20 ft. Great White Shark I would lose... Not that man is the apex predator in the sense that physically I can dominate other species but rather I know that with a rifle I could kill a Tiger or a shark. Alien teaches that there are even more exotic creatures much more physically capable than what we know, but Ripley still wins and humans are still apex.
Now if it turns out that the timeless question of why am I here, what is my purpose leads to -----> I'm a meatsack to incubate alien science projects etc. Then suddenly I feel much less entitled as I wonder through existence.
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on May 03, 2012, 07:37:55 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 03, 2012, 02:13:33 PM
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on May 03, 2012, 01:07:36 PMIt would be a very overt assertion that we are not the apex in the universe, which most people subconciously believe.
Alien pretty much made that assertion already.
What I mean is, if I were to take on a 700 lbs. Tiger hand to hand I would lose, if I was to take on a 20 ft. Great White Shark I would lose... Not that man is the apex predator in the sense that physically I can dominate other species but rather I know that with a rifle I could kill a Tiger or a shark. Alien teaches that there are even more exotic creatures much more physically capable than what we know, but Ripley still wins and humans are still apex.
Now if it turns out that the timeless question of why am I here, what is my purpose leads to -----> I'm a meatsack to incubate alien science projects etc. Then suddenly I feel much less entitled as I wonder through existence.
This is a very interesting point. Ash had stated that it was a "perfect organism." What does 'perfect' really mean though? Because he mentions that it is a 'survivor' and that it is 'hostile,' we putatively link this to who wins in game of live or die, or who the master the given the laws of evolution. In almost every Alien invasion film, humans outsmart the "smarter" alien life forms
Spoiler
(except for, I'm thinking War of the World where microorganisms do the trick, or in '82 The Thing, where everyone just freezes).
So, if Ripley is a better "survivor" or "fighter" than this alien - it would appear that that is the message. From the director's point of view, I agree with you that they are under heavy pressure to make humans the winners. Letting the aliens win is too easy to do in a story - and also pointless and unsatisfying. Nevertheless - occurrences which you cannot account for, or the randomness of events, always makes everything a coin toss. Sometimes the underdog will win even though it is in every sense, the inferior team. More specifically, ninety-nine times out of a hundred it will lose, but that every hundredth game, it will be able to come out on top due to luck, essentially. So as Ash says, "I can't lie to you about your chances, but you have my sympathies," it makes us wonder how much of the conclusion is a result of chance?
Did Ripley just get lucky - or are we just the better team? The average movie goers will think we're just better - while on the directors side, Ridley likely let Ripley get lucky.
Quote from: Qwertify on May 03, 2012, 08:03:42 PM
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on May 03, 2012, 07:37:55 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 03, 2012, 02:13:33 PM
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on May 03, 2012, 01:07:36 PMIt would be a very overt assertion that we are not the apex in the universe, which most people subconciously believe.
Alien pretty much made that assertion already.
What I mean is, if I were to take on a 700 lbs. Tiger hand to hand I would lose, if I was to take on a 20 ft. Great White Shark I would lose... Not that man is the apex predator in the sense that physically I can dominate other species but rather I know that with a rifle I could kill a Tiger or a shark. Alien teaches that there are even more exotic creatures much more physically capable than what we know, but Ripley still wins and humans are still apex.
Now if it turns out that the timeless question of why am I here, what is my purpose leads to -----> I'm a meatsack to incubate alien science projects etc. Then suddenly I feel much less entitled as I wonder through existence.
This is a very interesting point. Ash had stated that it was a "perfect organism." What does 'perfect' really mean though? Because he mentions that it is a 'survivor' and that it is 'hostile,' we putatively link this to who wins in game of live or die, or who the master the given the laws of evolution. In almost every Alien invasion film, humans outsmart the "smarter" alien life forms Spoiler
(except for, I'm thinking War of the World where microorganisms do the trick, or in '82 The Thing, where everyone just freezes).
Did Ripley just get lucky - or are we just the better team? The average movie goers will think we're just better - while on the directors side, Ridley likely let Ripley get lucky.
In the original ending Ripley was killed by the Alien and it recorded her final entry in her voice... I believe that was Scott's idea, and the studio said she needed to live and that would be too dark that the audience would reject it. So with an additional 30 years it makes you wonder how Scott will end Prometheus?
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on May 03, 2012, 08:26:39 PM
Quote from: Qwertify on May 03, 2012, 08:03:42 PM
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on May 03, 2012, 07:37:55 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 03, 2012, 02:13:33 PM
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on May 03, 2012, 01:07:36 PMIt would be a very overt assertion that we are not the apex in the universe, which most people subconciously believe.
Alien pretty much made that assertion already.
What I mean is, if I were to take on a 700 lbs. Tiger hand to hand I would lose, if I was to take on a 20 ft. Great White Shark I would lose... Not that man is the apex predator in the sense that physically I can dominate other species but rather I know that with a rifle I could kill a Tiger or a shark. Alien teaches that there are even more exotic creatures much more physically capable than what we know, but Ripley still wins and humans are still apex.
Now if it turns out that the timeless question of why am I here, what is my purpose leads to -----> I'm a meatsack to incubate alien science projects etc. Then suddenly I feel much less entitled as I wonder through existence.
This is a very interesting point. Ash had stated that it was a "perfect organism." What does 'perfect' really mean though? Because he mentions that it is a 'survivor' and that it is 'hostile,' we putatively link this to who wins in game of live or die, or who the master the given the laws of evolution. In almost every Alien invasion film, humans outsmart the "smarter" alien life forms Spoiler
(except for, I'm thinking War of the World where microorganisms do the trick, or in '82 The Thing, where everyone just freezes).
Did Ripley just get lucky - or are we just the better team? The average movie goers will think we're just better - while on the directors side, Ridley likely let Ripley get lucky.
In the original ending Ripley was killed by the Alien and it recorded her final entry in her voice... I believe that was Scott's idea, and the studio said she needed to live and that would be too dark that the audience would reject it. So with an additional 30 years it makes you wonder how Scott will end Prometheus?
Interesting. Thanks for bringing this up. I did not know that - or have not heard of it. Do you know where it comes from? Is it the DVD commentary? (I haven't heard it yet.) I like this tidbit, that the alien has a great sense of its surroundings, and is very intelligent, as it would debunk Cameron's bastardized interpretation that the Alien is just a mindless bug - operating in a hive like manner, and that rifle to it is as good as a swatter to a fly.
It does make think about how he will end it. Nevertheless - I think that the lifeboat does take them back home - at least one person back. Scott has said he would like to do another film after this one in the same universe. If everyone dies on the other hand - it does leave a lasting impression of the horror encountered. On the other hand, again, Shaw is constantly referred to as a survivor - and I think the audience would relate to her too much at the end for it to make movie sense to just give her character the axe(see what I did there?).
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on May 03, 2012, 07:37:55 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on May 03, 2012, 02:13:33 PM
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on May 03, 2012, 01:07:36 PMIt would be a very overt assertion that we are not the apex in the universe, which most people subconciously believe.
Alien pretty much made that assertion already.
What I mean is, if I were to take on a 700 lbs. Tiger hand to hand I would lose, if I was to take on a 20 ft. Great White Shark I would lose... Not that man is the apex predator in the sense that physically I can dominate other species but rather I know that with a rifle I could kill a Tiger or a shark. Alien teaches that there are even more exotic creatures much more physically capable than what we know, but Ripley still wins and humans are still apex.
Now if it turns out that the timeless question of why am I here, what is my purpose leads to -----> I'm a meatsack to incubate alien science projects etc. Then suddenly I feel much less entitled as I wonder through existence.
I get you now. I guess it is pretty blatant that a young warrant officer can outsmart a creature that beat down an engineer,
three freaking times (with a little help here and there of course). No matter how superior Scott makes the engineers in the new film or how horrific the new monsters are, there will always be that pesky little fact; Ripley uses xeno blood to polish her god-damned boots. Maybe Scott should've killed her off after all. ;)
Ive been thinking about the SJ POV of things. They've already mastered things on the nano level. So over time their "plans" and line of thinking would be more MACROscopic instead of MICRO. This is their downfall though. Life finds a way. Like a virus, one rogue jockey infected them, and enchanced himself with the products (gene therapy).
When i think of the Prometheus heading to LV223, im thinking its like a sperm heading for an egg. (does the sperm know it will "die" and pretty much the only part left of it will be the combinations of its genetic data that SURVIVES the merger between itself and the egg's data?) most likely not.
The entire process of them going there is to create a new being or the next step of evolution. The crew (shaw) thinks they are going there for their own benefit and in a way they are.....but in truth, not for human reasons. (Not anymore atleast, not since the "betrayal", more on that later). I think what we have is one Jockey who is hellbent on creating a being, or merging itself with ALL dna's possible, hence the urns (trophies). He experimented on his crew members and they died (except one who got away), and has turned what was a garden into hell. He just waits for species to come there. He poses as God to the beings that arrive much to their demise. He is trying to become God by literally becoming made up of all things, Biological,Mechanical,and Spiritual. Just like an Android wanting a soul....to be human.
Its possible that human dna is a missing piece he's looking for (spirit)(ironic we are there to look for our missing piece) and decides to head to earth after witnessing their arrival, to "Harvest" it. ALL of it. He probably has done this lots of times to all the beings that he has urns for. Each of those planets on the SJ holo map are the DNA's/ worlds he has "conquered"/cataloged.
David or Weyland is our him and the same betrayal that the SJ commited is played out before our eyes with the humans. I think Vickers has knowledge of a beacon saying to stay away (LV426) but is not telling anyone directly because her mission is the same as Ash's was.
Its possible the Jockey that we meet is actually a Xeno Jockey and is NOT our true MAKER or SJ, they all died after his birth. He is the "King" Xenomorph. Weyland is all about this mission because he thinks he can actually pose a challenge to the King and take what he wants in one fell swoop instead of earning or actually gathering the data planet by planet as the SJ's did. The King did to the SJ's what Weyland is trying to do with him. ARROGANCE and THEFT.
He wants what we got and we want what he's got. The product of all of this? Internecivus raptus A murderous thief.
Quote from: GreatKnower on May 04, 2012, 12:57:28 AM
David or Weyland is our him and the same betrayal that the SJ commited is played out before our eyes with the humans. I think Vickers has knowledge of a beacon saying to stay away (LV426) but is not telling anyone directly because her mission is the same as Ash's was.
So they have knowledge of this beacon 30 years before space truckers are redirected to check it out, but they send their state of the art sicence vessel to check out this other place that is allegedly near where that signal is coming from?
Quote from: GreatKnower on May 04, 2012, 12:57:28 AM
The product of all of this? Internecivus raptus A murderous thief.
I think that interpretation is okay. I disagree that the main point is related to "Internecivus raptus." This is an invention of the people compiling the Alien Quadrilogy DVDs, and is something that bears little to no relation to Scott's original vision.
Also - the idea that some force out there is seeking perfection, divine power, and intergalactic dominance would not break new ground - something Ridley promises to do in Prometheus.
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 04, 2012, 12:39:54 PM
Quote from: GreatKnower on May 04, 2012, 12:57:28 AM
David or Weyland is our him and the same betrayal that the SJ commited is played out before our eyes with the humans. I think Vickers has knowledge of a beacon saying to stay away (LV426) but is not telling anyone directly because her mission is the same as Ash's was.
So they have knowledge of this beacon 30 years before space truckers are redirected to check it out, but they send their state of the art sicence vessel to check out this other place that is allegedly near where that signal is coming from?
Thats what im postulating. If Vickers is up out of cryo or woken up before everyone else its possible that her and/or david receive the transmission as they approach the star system. Vickers relays this back to earth, in which the response is her "new" mission. She immediately starts doing pushups obsessively to cope with her new orders. She knows there's a threat and that they will all die down there,mostly. David tells the humans this at some point later on when it starts hitting the fan. David might even lead the charge, protecting the humans, David and Goliath style. This could be why she throws him up against the wall. Her failure could be why they send Ash to do it 30 years later, he wont have the same.....moral barriers that a human or series 8 might have.
The push ups and exercise is part of coming out of cryo. The crew do some exercises to loosen up their joints and stuff.
I'm just pointing out, why exactly would it take them 30 years to get around to checking out that other signal, why would they send an ill equipped team to handle it? Just a lot of questions raised by it, honestly. :)
As i said its just a possibility, im not claiming it to be canon by all means.
Her doing pushups like that dont seem to be the kind of "stretching" one would do to loosen up....she is going at it....hardcore.
What would cause them (weyland) to do all of this? Arrogance. "Doing anything and everything to get your answers."
as for the time gap? its possible no one survives,no data is sent back to earth. The signal is picked up as the nostromo nears the same star system. Mother relays the message to HQ/Earth. Rinse, repeat. The rescue part is a lie....partly.(rescuing survivors of prometheus)....Weyland knows they sent a classified mission there 30 years prior. Also its 30 years Earthtime. The nostromo couldve been in stasis for any number of earth years. To the crew, prometheus ends, they ship out and on the way back...enter Alien.
Quote from: GreatKnower on May 04, 2012, 02:07:10 PM
As i said its just a possibility, im not claiming it to be canon by all means.
What would cause them (weyland) to do all of this? Arrogance. "Doing anything and everything to get your answers."
I'm speaking from the standpoint of logic.
Why would they wait 30 years to intercept a signal from another planet, and why would they use an ill equipped space craft and crew to do so?
Also, the remark about doing anything and everything was David speaking to Holloway and Holloway's motivation, very clearly. :)
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 04, 2012, 02:12:24 PM
Quote from: GreatKnower on May 04, 2012, 02:07:10 PM
As i said its just a possibility, im not claiming it to be canon by all means.
What would cause them (weyland) to do all of this? Arrogance. "Doing anything and everything to get your answers."
I'm speaking from the standpoint of logic.
Why would they wait 30 years to intercept a signal from another planet, and why would they use an ill equipped space craft and crew to do so?
Also, the remark about doing anything and everything was David speaking to Holloway and Holloway's motivation, very clearly. :)
That and the link would be too strong between the two films. They take place in the same universe - not on the same planet. Scott does say there is a link - but he says only keen fans will see it. If the Derelicht is the Juggernaut, you don't really need to even be a fan to make the association.
Maw you were way off base by over generalizing what has been done before and now in prometheus.You try to encompass all of the films listed into one idea thats been done before.When even the ones u listed are all very different.The only more general statement u could make is saying this thing with outer space and some sort of alien creature has been done so many times.LOL.Getting my point now?
Quote from: EXTERMINATUS on May 04, 2012, 05:18:44 PM
Maw you were way off base by over generalizing what has been done before and now in prometheus.You try to encompass all of the films listed into one idea thats been done before.When even the ones u listed are all very different.The only more general statement u could make is saying this thing with outer space and some sort of alien creature has been done so many times.LOL.Getting my point now?
Except we weren't. It's quite clear that in ALL those films, man comes up as little more than a resource to be exploited. They all are influenced by Lovecraft in one way or another, and they all are variations on that theme. Man is the prey. The sheep to the slaughter.
Hell The Thing's tagline was "Man is the warmest place to hide."
I'm pretty confident that Prometheus won't tie into Alien territory plotwise. Ridley has been pretty adamant that he had no desire to ret-con Alien with this film. We'll get some insight into what the space jockey was all about (and we might get a little tidbit on the actual derelict ship on LV-426 - or we might not) and otherwise, the connection will be visual homages, small character nods, designs etc. somewhat reminescent of the Alien films.
From what we've seen, Vickers comes through as a non-beliver with little interest in the whole ordeal, until she'll finds herself smack in the middle of it, making some tough calls. I can't see her character with a convoluted plot leading into Alien territory at all. Neither do I believe she's an android.
But that's just my $0.02 anyway... ;)
Quote from: EXTERMINATUS on May 04, 2012, 05:18:44 PM
Maw you were way off base by over generalizing what has been done before and now in prometheus.You try to encompass all of the films listed into one idea thats been done before.When even the ones u listed are all very different.The only more general statement u could make is saying this thing with outer space and some sort of alien creature has been done so many times.LOL.Getting my point now?
We get your point. Yet, it is hard to move forward with the argument when your rebuttal is just you restating your original argument. You do not engage with anything we've said save for saying that the films are very different from one another. This is irrelevant as we've said they take elements, single concepts, from the films, not the whole body of work. This could not have been clearer. As such, your original idea that Space Jockeys are farming humans is new is in fact just a mash up of old ideas. We are not saying that this is not the case per se. We are saying that it can be explained when you take old elements from films and mash them up. The list was a list of examples of a series of elements you can mash up to get that idea. I don't see how you can deny that. just to be clear, you can use a different set of films even i.e. War of the Worlds, Screamers, and The Island. They are the same elements, but when you mash them up you get the same final idea you had.
Let me break it down:
The Island - creation of people just to be farmed later
Screamers - replication of alien life form by using a human model
War of the Worlds - aliens land on Earth to use humans to grow their species
I would go into how in fact, alien invasion, using humans/Earth as a source to extend an alien agenda, using human bodies for proliferation, etc. have been done many time before, in what films, and how those elements in that case are not original, however you seem to have some sort of problem with this in that in a way that is not really clear to me. Is alien invasion not overdone? Has alien proliferation through use of the human body never been done before? Has farming humans like cattle never been covered? Is the idea that aliens created us, or that we come from an alien planet so new? The answer to all of these is no. They have been covered in film, talked about by scientists, students, critics, written about in novels, and in expository pieces, etc., and to a good extent. So, if you want to say that the idea of aliens creating humans to be farmed is new and original, I would agree with that as far as it is a combination of things that has never been combined before. At the core however, I would say I disagree - it is neither new nor original, and thus not groundbreaking. Scott himself said the secret in the film would be groundbreaking, and so it would be disappointing if all is was, was a new mash up of old things.
I read on another forum an idea that perhaps the Space Jockey doesn't exist in the film. His race is all dead yet his DNA still exists in the urns or worms whatever. Holloway infects himself making himself into somekind of SJ / Human hybrid in an attempt to elevate himself to that of the Gods. The scene where you see the SJ ship taking off and Prometheus is chasing is piloted by the HollowayGod Hybrid. He plans to take himself back to Earth and procalim himself a God to humanity and with the Juggernaught and its high technology dominates over the Earth.
In the myth of Prometheus, the Gods would never have told the humans about fire because then they would have gotten fire a lot more easily. Why then would the ancient people have written down the location of the planet in which Prometheus takes place. Clearly the Jockeys (the Gods) would have known that they would find the "fire." So why would they invite them? I'm thinking that the Space Jockeys gave them a warning, not to go there, but the ancient people took it as something else.
But the biggest question is what exactly is the "fire" in this movie. There are several possible options. The commonest idea is that they'll discover the Xenomorph, but I find that unrealistic considering all the "It's more of in a different universe" talk from the creators of the film. It might also have something to do with David. We know that David thinks he's superior to the humans.That might come into play. But it might also be space flight in general, or it may have to do with terraforming. It will definitely have to do with the origins or progressions of life, I'm going with progression.
Again over generalizing.LOL.rofl.If u can see it there is no helping you.Under your definition any other movie that involves aliens and humans has been done to death.That is all.LOL u compared the blob and the matrix.That is all.
That is the point.Whats this we stuff anyway.Your not speaking for everyone.
Quote from: EXTERMINATUS on May 05, 2012, 12:31:39 PM
Again over generalizing.LOL.rofl.
Hey, whatever helps you sleep better at night. :)
MAW.Ill give one more shot and be more specific.ORIGINALLY u said the Host and Farming thing had been done to death.YOU Cited THE THING, THE BLOB, INVASION,MATRIX AND ALIENS.The only one of those to even have a host albeit briefly is U GUESSED IT ALIEN and thats ridley's so he can expand on that ITS HIS!AHH The farming resource thing .So that part completely wrong.OK on to the next.Invasion of the body snatchers dont use people as food.If u found something different in some novel or script let me know.The blob and the thing pretty much eat people.AND THERE HAVE BEEN A THOUSAND SIENCE FICTION MOVIES TO DEAL WITH THAT.Tthere is where over generalizing comes in again.IF you said we have seen aliens eat people 1000s of times.Then u may have a point on past movies.But guess what so far it doesnt look like the aliens eat you in Prometheus.So again wrong.Your only good example of people being farmed as an actualy resource is the matrix.
What Pandora's Box has been opened here...?
Quote from: EXTERMINATUS on May 05, 2012, 03:22:12 PM
MAW.Ill give one more shot and be more specific.ORIGINALLY u said the Host and Farming thing had been done to death.YOU Cited THE THING, THE BLOB, INVASION,MATRIX AND ALIENS.The only one of those to even have a host albeit briefly is U GUESSED IT ALIEN and thats ridley's so he can expand on that ITS HIS!
Wrong. I reiterated and supporter another poster. I didn't cite them initially. I wasn't the originator of the idea.
Quote from: EXTERMINATUS on May 05, 2012, 03:22:12 PM
AHH The farming resource thing .So that part completely wrong.
...No. Nobody who was speaking of that idea was being literal. It's variations on a theme.
Why don't you slow down and better form your posts? A lot of what you're saying is all slurred together.
Hi,
Sorry if this has already be brought up but..
What if the true "Space Jockey" creature from Alien is a seperate species to the human-like "Engineers" that the Promethues crew encounters on LV-223? The explanation given could be that the Engineers has knowledge of the long extinct Space Jockey race and a cult faction of Enginers idolise them to the point that they even dress to appear like them (much like early humans have done to appear like certain totem animals). This would explain why the Engineers would design such an convoluted helmet and suit. This also raises the possibility that the Enginner group are trying to recreate a Space Jockey through bioengineering experiments. Those experiments may also be how the Xenomorph creature came to be (via lab accident in pursuit of the Space Jockey form). Perhaps the creature we have heard about in the finale of the film will be a living Space Jockey on the rampage against both the Engineer and the humans.
Also note that there are two alien spacecraft seen in the trailers. Each has a design philosophy distinct of each other suggesting different species of origin.
Quote from: uoh11odV on May 10, 2012, 05:41:36 AM
Hi,
Sorry if this has already be brought up but..
What if the true "Space Jockey" creature from Alien is a seperate species to the human-like "Engineers" that the Promethues crew encounters on LV-223? The explanation given could be that the Engineers has knowledge of the long extinct Space Jockey race and a cult faction of Enginers idolise them to the point that they even dress to appear like them (much like early humans have done to appear like certain totem animals). This would explain why the Engineers would design such an convoluted helmet and suit. This also raises the possibility that the Enginner group are trying to recreate a Space Jockey through bioengineering experiments. Those experiments may also be how the Xenomorph creature came to be (via lab accident in pursuit of the Space Jockey form). Perhaps the creature we have heard about in the finale of the film will be a living Space Jockey on the rampage against both the Engineer and the humans.
Also note that there are two alien spacecraft seen in the trailers. Each has a design philosophy distinct of each other suggesting different species of origin.
Interesting hypothesis but i see at least one problems with it.
How the xenomorph would be created by the humanoid engineers and yet but present in the ship of the giant Space Jockey from Alien, and went as far as impregnating and killing him ?
Fair point.
Spoiler
Perhaps something to do with the proto-facehugger that is extracted from Shaw.
I just think it would be a great twist to have us think that the Space Jockey is going to be human-like (and be be somewhat disappointed despite how cool he looks), then at the end we see the real SJ and all hell breaks loose.
From the sheer logistics of story telling, introducing a 'different' engineer/jockey species on top of the one we have, all the new creatures, plot, character building etc., it might be a problem to fit all that into a 2hour movie.
The saucer shaped craft in the prologue/beginning does make me wonder though, but then again, why would all their interstellar ships have the exact same shape? The various spaceships we've designed over a span of 50 years, are very different from eachother.
Quote from: uoh11odV on May 10, 2012, 11:22:01 AM
Fair point. Spoiler
Perhaps something to do with the proto-facehugger that is extracted from Shaw.
The problem with that is still that the Xenomorphs could not be created by the humanoid engineers and yet be able to do be present on the ship of a member of a long ago extinct race.
Because that would mean that the Xenomorphs existed long ago.
I just think it would be a great twist to have us think that the Space Jockey is going to be human-like (and be be somewhat disappointed despite how cool he looks), then at the end we see the real SJ and all hell breaks loose.
This could be an interesting twist as long as the Xeno were created/discovered by the original/real SJ.
Imagine the engineers recreated an original S.J who appears to be hostile and too powerful for the engineers to handle but through the sacrifice of several of them, they managed to stun it and hold it prisoner . Imagine that this S.J manage to break free because of Prometheus crew and then begins to wipe them out but is ultimately killed by the last engineer, who decide to avenge his brethen by wiping out man kind.
Though something tell me that Prometheus story would be very different.
Quote from: Eva on May 10, 2012, 12:30:42 PM
From the sheer logistics of story telling, introducing a 'different' engineer/jockey species on top of the one we have, all the new creatures, plot, character building etc., it might be a problem to fit all that into a 2hour movie.
The saucer shaped craft in the prologue/beginning does make me wonder though, but then again, why would all their interstellar ships have the exact same shape? The various spaceships we've designed over a span of 50 years, are very different from eachother.
True but if the movie stays close to the mythology of Prometheus there has to be four distinctly separate groups. In the myth there are the mortals, Prometheus the Titan, Zeus the God, and a "great eagle". In this movie it would seem that the corresponding groups should be: the Humans, the Engineer (the Titan), the Space Jockey (the God), and the Xenomorph (the Eagle).
Quote from: timiteh on May 10, 2012, 12:43:33 PM
Quote from: uoh11odV on May 10, 2012, 11:22:01 AM
Fair point. Spoiler
Perhaps something to do with the proto-facehugger that is extracted from Shaw.
The problem with that is still that the Xenomorphs could not be created by the humanoid engineers and yet be able to do be present on the ship of a member of a long ago extinct race.
Because that would mean that the Xenomorphs existed long ago.
I just think it would be a great twist to have us think that the Space Jockey is going to be human-like (and be be somewhat disappointed despite how cool he looks), then at the end we see the real SJ and all hell breaks loose.
This could be an interesting twist as long as the Xeno were created/discovered by the original/real SJ.
Imagine the engineers recreated an original S.J who appears to be hostile and too powerful for the engineers to handle but through the sacrifice of several of them, they managed to stun it and hold it prisoner . Imagine that this S.J manage to break free because of Prometheus crew and then begins to wipe them out but is ultimately killed by the last engineer, who decide to avenge his brethen by wiping out man kind.
Though something tell me that Prometheus story would be very different.
I like that idea. Perhaps they thought the SJ would be peaceful or at least appreciative but no, it is sinister to the core and far too powerful.
I think someone already mentioned something along these lines, but I had a thought, as much as I like this idea the Jockeys maybe created us, I just wonder what could their true purpose of creating new life possibly be about. What if these Space Jockey's weren't gods at all, but simply creators of many things constantly looking for ways to better themselves. That their biomechanical look really comes from 1000's of years of evolution through their very own creations, that the creature we saw in Alien wasn't the Jockey at all, but just another hapless victim of their evolution, who thought they could take advantage of what seemed like a good will gesture. But somehow they escaped destruction to set up this signal to warn people about the Jockey's and what they are capable of. Maybe what the Jockeys are actually doing is creating life so they remain the perfect being, that no one must ever surpass and those who do become one with them without choice. So this INVITE means we have run our course, and now it's our turn to become one with them, but this also would mean the end for mankind. I can't think of anything more dangerous than being created for the purpose in which we die.
^^^ If they do create other living beings they probably do it for the same reasons as us. Because they can.Why do we want to create robots that look like us, behave like us, why do we want and fantasize about androids with artificial inteligence? I suspect the movie will make of this a plot point: just how the jockeys created us, just like that humanity now has the means to build another being in it's own image who thinks for itself. Granted David isn't what we consider a life form, it can't reproduce, still needs humans for maintenace, but it symbolizes man's capability to start creating things in it's own image, just like a god would and possibly in the future it will create a self sufficient being.
It's also possible that the Jockey race didn't create us, but only one member of this race, and he got punished for it, this possibly being the reason why they would want to come to earth now and exterminate us.
And i don't think they are creating life just so they can eventually incorporate that into them. It doesn't make sense. I think they do have the capabilities to enhance themselves to perfection and are just creating other life forms either as workers for their civilization, or as weapons. And with others they are simply experimenting to see what can be achieved, just like any scientist or engineer would experiment here on earth with medicine or tehnology in general. Who knows maybe we were created as a slave race for them without a conscience or free will and Prometheus gave us those things so we started to advance and he got punished. Or maybe we already existed on this planet in a primitive form and they enhanced us as a experiment to see how far we can go, and now that we visit them and they see we can now create artificial beings, they consider the experiment finished, they feel threatened and decide to end us.
I think it all depends on what Ridley meant by uncivilized behavior. For me uncivilized can mean anything from savages to religious folk. :P
Crazy thought...
Kind of mixing some things 'revealed' (if true) in the Twitter controversy with the link to ALIEN...
Spoiler
What if David is the Jockey we see in Alien and the only reason the xenomorph we know and love is part mechanical is because of David?
Why would the Engineer's have ever used 'mechanical' in any of their creations in the first place?
I'm thinking they didn't...and it wasn't until a bio life form combined with David that it created the xenomorph.
And...what if David could still see, when Dallas, Lambert and Kane visited the Derelict?
I know I haven't supplied the blanks that need to be filled in, but I thought this was worth throwing out there.
It could be that the proto form...snake hugger...didn't require a birthing...but rather transformed the organisms it lived in. Then once it infected David, it mutated and created a different life cycle.
But it couldn't exit through David's mouth...because apparently, he lost his head...(Twitter rumor)...so maybe he enters the Jockey suit as a way of trying to put himself back together.
I know it sounds crazy...infected and headless...David grabs his head and gets into the suit and chair...trying to take the ship that has crashed on LV-223 back to ???
He's able to take off, but as he tries to fly, the creature in him is trying to exit...
He is forced to land on LV-426...
The creature exists David via his chest...remember...no connection to his head...
From there...I'm not sure...maybe someone else is on the ship...
Ok...enough of my Friday afternoon mindless jabbering...
Feel free to play along or dissect it...
I can't help but notice how the other 3 jockey cryotubes have been sabotaged. Could the jockey just be another company guy who's mission was to return a specimen; all other priorities rescinded type of tool? That or a son who murdered is entire family because he went batshit insane with power. I mean that giant head... you'd have to be pretty unstable to erect that. :P
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 11, 2012, 10:57:54 PM
I can't help but notice how the other 3 jockey cryotubes have been sabotaged. Could the jockey just be another company guy who's mission was to return a specimen; all other priorities rescinded type of tool? That or a son who murdered is entire family because he went batshit insane with power. I mean that giant head... you'd have to be pretty unstable to erect that. :P
This has been one popular theory - but it runs in the vein of more it being a super genius scientist who is worshiped kind of as a master/idol who created the xenomorph. This is why in the ampule room you have the creator and his creations. That is not to say the Engineer there is the same as the super scientist - rather just another jockey working their plans with the xenos in which ever way they fit into the plot. Again - this is all theory.
I don't understand all the talk on these (and many other) boards on the issue of proto-this and proto-that.
I seriously doubt there will be a proto-anything in this movie...especially proto-xenomporphs, since we clearly see a fully-formed depiction of a xeno on the wall of the alien 'caves' (in the trailer).
I expect these are just different creatures, but with a similar look to them (and similar 'motives').
As an aside, I'll just be happy if no one has to get to 'minimum safe distance' at any time during the movie.
The creatures in this film CAN be next generation creations if you think about how long ago the eggs on the derelict had been there. I suspect that everything that goes down in the hologram happened thousands, maybe even millions of years ago. So it's possible that life on earth (Seeded by the surviving Jockeys?) and the crashing of the derelict happened around the same time.
So the traditional xenos we know are actually millions of years old, out dated, bio-tech. The company learns of the the derelict from the holograms and goes after it after the events of this film.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on May 12, 2012, 01:40:06 AM
The creatures in this film CAN be next generation creations if you think about how long ago the eggs on the derelict had been there. I suspect that everything that goes down in the hologram happened thousands, maybe even millions of years ago. So it's possible that life on earth (Seeded by the surviving Jockeys?) and the crashing of the derelict happened around the same time.
So the traditional xenos we know are actually millions of years old, out dated, bio-tech. The company learns of the the derelict from the holograms and goes after it after the events of this film.
That collides with AVP
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmemetshirts.com%2Fimages%2Ftrololo.jpg&hash=8d76fc6ef73976529f8a5dbb74bd32013a490896)
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on May 12, 2012, 01:40:06 AM
the crashing of the derelict happened around the same time.
Derelict on LV426 did not crash. It landed. - So says Ridley Scott. :)
Any thoughts about why would the world end if that ship reaches Earth?
I suppose it has the same eggchambers as the one in Alien....maybe we will see the chambers after the collision for a few minutes and there we will have the connection.
Quote from: szkoki on May 22, 2012, 10:30:28 PM
Any thoughts about why would the world end if that ship reaches Earth?
I suppose it has the same eggchambers as the one in Alien....maybe we will see the chambers after the collision for a few minutes and there we will have the connection.
All it would take is for a couple xeno cobras to get loose in the water, where they could probably reproduce very rapidly.
There's really about a dozen or so (at least!) reasonable scenarios or storylines that could fit the trailer. Some people here have posted some great ideas /themes that might even trump the actual storyline! Anyway, just think . . . . . . of all the possible directions this movie could go, Ridley & Co. only get ONE. I sure hope the story lives up to the awesome trailer. Who knows, maybe the Blue Ray/DVD will have an alternate ending.
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 22, 2012, 09:19:08 PM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on May 12, 2012, 01:40:06 AM
the crashing of the derelict happened around the same time.
Derelict on LV426 did not crash. It landed. - So says Ridley Scott. :)
Parked as he would also say. :D
Quote from: RoyaleDuke on May 23, 2012, 02:18:44 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on May 22, 2012, 09:19:08 PM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on May 12, 2012, 01:40:06 AM
the crashing of the derelict happened around the same time.
Derelict on LV426 did not crash. It landed. - So says Ridley Scott. :)
Parked as he would also say. :D
then it must landed after the events from prometheus and it is not fossilized. so we are all at the same point. we know nothing about derelict on lv426