I'm sure this has already been done to death, but here it goes...
The question of all questions,
How did the egg get on board the Sulaco, hence starting the events of Alien3?
My theory is a simpler one... a chestburster hitched a ride with the Queen onto the dropship (obviously this chestburster hatched from one of the Marines - probably Apone or Deitreich). The chestburster crawls off, grows into an adult Xenomorph, and then does some kind of egg-morphing thing, and puts the egg on the Sulaco. The Xenomorph could have morphed some food on the Sulaco into an egg, or perhaps a Warrior Xenomorph can grow one egg inside itself and then lay it. Or, it may have morphed into a Queen and this Queen was able to lay a few eggs. Whatever this Xenomorph was, it was left behind when the shuttle detaches from the Sulaco.
But, still a question. What made the egg open up and hatch the face hugger? Motion is required for this to happen. And on the side of things, why do the cryo chambers in Alien3 look different than they did in ALIENS? I'll have to watch the ending of ALIENS again, I think I remember the cryo chambers looked different at the end than they did at the beginning, so maybe they were in a different cryo room.
However, I get the feeling that the common answer around here will be that Bishop put the egg on the Sulaco. It does make sense. In Alien3 when Ripley plugs the broken droid in, Bishop seems disturbed by something. It's like he doesn't want Ripley to know he put the egg on the Sulaco, which is why he urges her to permanently disconnect him. He's afraid she'll force him to reveal how the egg got on board. Bishop did have plenty of time in ALIENS to have recovered an egg and put it aboard the Sulaco, in fact this likely would have occurred BEFORE the initial battle.
I also think it makes sense that the Facehugger in Alien3 was able to use two hosts, instead of dying after using one host. A facehugger carrying a Queen embryo is special. It impregnates someone with a regular Xenomorph, and that Xenomorph is born and prepares the way for the Queen, while that same Facehugger crawls off and impregnates someone with this Queen. A pretty good safety measure.
Nice explanation though I personally....Dont wanna think of Bishop....as a "bad guy" lol....XD Though its plausible and actually does make sense, be interesting to hear what ppl think about the egg, and the requiring motion to hatch the facehugger is a very good point, that does open a few posibilities. Good job :)
The explanation I always went with is that the Queen laid an egg (or two) in the landing gear, and then for whatever reason they just... hatched. It always made the most sense to me.
Jones put it here.
Isn't there a topic 'Egg on Sulaco' already?
I say it was the Queen. She already laid the egg while the dropship was returning to the mothership and she stuck it up the undetermined corridor, while the humans were inside. While she sensed that they were coming outside the ship, she quickly hid inside and injured herself. :laugh:
Wow! You guys are usually quite educated, but I'm surprised you didn't know more about this one. On the IMDB boards, they've ripped this plot hole to shreds.
1) It doesn't make sense that the Queen on Sulaco can lay eggs. Her egg sack had been ripped from her. Her body is quite skinny, so it would take some time for her to produce an egg and force it out of her body. That time frame just doesn't exist in the movie. The Queen also came directly out of the dropship.... she had no time to run around the Sulaco and plant an egg, in fact Ripley, Bishop, and Newt would have seen the Queen do this. It doesn't fit with the Queen's biology that she can just force an egg out of her body without the sac attached.
2) The egg we see onboard the Sulaco in Alien3 is not on board the dropship.... it's on board the Sulaco itself.
The only good explanation is the Bishop explanation.... and what I said about the conversation between Bishop and Ripley in Alien3 seems to imply it. Bishop has to take orders from the company.... Burke was the company man. Bishop is an android and can't really think for himself. So he may have had to take the order to plant an egg on board, even if he didn't want to. But, problems arise here. There are only a couple limited timeframes Bishop had to retrieve an egg and plant it on the ship. And where exactly did he find this egg? That is quite a problematic question if he did this all before the Marines' first battle with the Xenomorph. They didn't know where the eggs were. The only other chance was when he was waiting for Ripley to find Newt and save her from being impregnated (when he was flying the drop ship while the facility was exploding - end of the movie). At this point, it is very possible he was able to find an egg. But the problem here is there just isn't enough time for him to fly to the Sulaco, plant the egg, and return to save Ripley and Newt.
It would make more sense if he just took one of the face huggers the colonists had locked away, and brought that to the Sulaco. But that's not what happened here since there is an EGG present on the Sulaco as well.
Another issue (although maybe one easier to answer), is how Bishop could retrieve an egg without causing it to hatch? And really.... why leave the egg out in the open where it could be discovered by Ripley, Newt, and Hicks? Why risk disrupting the crew's stasis on the way back to earth, when he just could have frozen the egg somewhere, so that when they arrive back on earth, the company can deal with it?
Too many questions in a movie full of plot-holes.
BTW, I just rewatched some scenes from ALIENS, and the cryo pods at the end are the same as in the beginning. There's some things I wanna check out regarding this in Alien3 tomorrow.
In the original 'Egg on Sulaco' thread they've dissected this plot hole in its smallest parts. 26 pages! You can find it here (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg9#msg9).
How do you know that it was on the Sulaco itself?
The dropship could have had the name Sulaco on it too.
Bishop could have gone to take an egg while Ripley went inside to rescue Newt. When she returned, he wasn't there. He emerged from the lower levels of the facility, where Ripley just came from.
He might have taken an egg and stuck it at a place where the rest of the crew wouldn't really go. Like the weapons shaft.
Hicks was injured and all three of the humans would be in their hypersleeps.
Bishop was an android, so the facehugger would never attack him.
Or perhaps there could have been a sneaky Alien on board as well.
"Was there an Alien on board?
"Yes. It was there all the time."
A: CM says that there was a party of humans that arrives after the crew was in stasis. They had Alien specimens of their own but something goes wrong and they all end up dying (or facehugged). There is no Queen in Sulaco at the moment and one of the Aliens might have done the magic tricks of molting eggs into super facehugger eggs on one of the later-crew.
That facehugger than spits acid around and impregnates Ripley.
Revenge!
Quote from: StayFrosty on Oct 30, 2011, 09:50:32 AM
The only good explanation is the Bishop explanation....
"I cannot harm, nor by omission of action allow to come to a harm, a human being."
QuoteIt would make more sense if he just took one of the face huggers the colonists had locked away, and brought that to the Sulaco. But that's not what happened here since there is an EGG present on the Sulaco as well.
Also there were only two alive. And they both got wasted.
Aaand Burke didn't speak for the Company -- he was a representative, yes, but he was there solely to assess the situation. Otherwise he was flying solo.
QuoteBTW, I just rewatched some scenes from ALIENS, and the cryo pods at the end are the same as in the beginning. There's some things I wanna check out regarding this in Alien3 tomorrow.
The pods are different in A³. It was a creative decision by Fincher.
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Oct 30, 2011, 10:06:37 AM
The dropship could have had the name Sulaco on it too.
The dropship has a cockpit and a hold for the APC, both of which we see in
Aliens, neither of which even vaguely look like a long pale-coloured corridor like we see in
Alien³.
I like to think the Queen took an egg with her from the hive, one that didn't get burnt, and stuck it on her back for the journey to the Sulaco. It's bullshit of course, but it doesn't seem too far-fetched to me that she could piggyback one with her.
Did anyone even bother to read my last post?
I'd really recommend reading some of the 26-page thread OmegaZilla linked to. The discussion there shows us there really is no answer.
The whole argument is fubar. After everything the Marines had gone through, it makes no sense that Ripley didn't do some kind of ship scan to make sure there were no other aliens on board, after the Queen had been eliminated. It would have been COMMON SENSE to scan the ship and look for invaders before going into hyper sleep.
QuoteI like to think the Queen took an egg with her from the hive, one that didn't get burnt, and stuck it on her back for the journey to the Sulaco. It's bullshit of course, but it doesn't seem too far-fetched to me that she could piggyback one with her.
Yes, part of that seems realistic. But the Queen had no time to take that egg and put it somewhere else on the Sulaco. In Alien3, the egg was definitely not on the drop ship. There are other problems with your theory too, but I won't go into them. Even if we assume the egg WAS on the dropship, the dropship would have been likely closed and sealed. So how did the face hugger get out? And most importantly, *what* made the egg open up in the first place?
Unless the egg was somewhere near the cryo room, the face hugger would have had to spit TONS of acid and open all these doors into order to get in there and impregnate Ripley. But still, no answer to why the egg opened in the first place.
Quote
"I cannot harm, nor by omission of action allow to come to a harm, a human being."
This doesn't matter in the least. When Bishop said that line, he was stating he cannot harm a human being on his own accord. But he is a *robot*. He has to taken orders from *someone*. He is property of the *company*. There is no reason to believe that Bishop, a robot, has freewill.
What would Bishop do if say, Hudson went A-WOL and started trying to stab Newt? What if the only way to stop Hudson from doing this, was to harm Hudson? By your logic, Bishop wouldn't be able to do anything, because he cannot harm a human being. You're taking his words out of context.
Plus, what if Bishop was lying that he cannot harm a human being? What if he was just saying what the company wanted to say to shut Ripley up?
I do believe Bishop cared about Ripley, the crew, and humanity in general. But he still does not have freewill, and he has to obey orders. He worked for a greedy, manipulative company that did not care about Ripley, the crew, or humanity.
Even if Bishop was property of the military, and not the company directly, he still could have been reprogrammed *before* the Marines sent out on the journey to LV-426.
QuoteAlso there were only two alive. And they both got wasted.
Aaand Burke didn't speak for the Company -- he was a representative, yes, but he was there solely to assess the situation. Otherwise he was flying solo.
Ok, you are right about the two face huggers being killed. But we saw from Burke's actions later in the film that he was willing to do ANYTHING to bring the alien back. We don't know how Bishop may have been reprogrammed before the Marines came to LV-426.
Either way, you may be right. If that's the case, then that just further exposes this plot-hole in Alien3, because the Bishop answer is really the best one.
QuoteThe pods are different in A³. It was a creative decision by Fincher.
I don't understand why the directors blatantly put these plot-holes into the movie. What were his reasons for making this creative decision?
I suppose it makes sense that the cryo tubes slid into different casing on board the Sulaco's shuttle (we see this happening at the beginning of Alien3), but I believe it showed them on board the Sulaco *before* they slid into the shuttle, so it still doesn't make sense.
Quote
Bishop could have gone to take an egg while Ripley went inside to rescue Newt. When she returned, he wasn't there. He emerged from the lower levels of the facility, where Ripley just came from.
He might have taken an egg and stuck it at a place where the rest of the crew wouldn't really go. Like the weapons shaft.
Hicks was injured and all three of the humans would be in their hypersleeps.
Bishop was an android, so the facehugger would never attack him.
There wasn't enough time for Bishop to do all that when Ripley was rescuing Newt. I agree he could have grabbed an egg within this time frame and hid it aboard the shuttle, but there was no time to hide it on the Sulaco itself. It's already been stated here that the egg was *not* on board the shuttle when we see it in Alien3. And I've already raised further questions about this, like how the egg itself opened up, or how the face hugger would be able to get off the shuttle.
If Bishop did just hide the egg on board the shuttle, there was no time for him to take it and hide it somewhere on board the Sulaco. Bishop is attacked and decimated by the Queen as soon as the shuttle returns.
QuoteA: CM says that there was a party of humans that arrives after the crew was in stasis. They had Alien specimens of their own but something goes wrong and they all end up dying (or facehugged). There is no Queen in Sulaco at the moment and one of the Aliens might have done the magic tricks of molting eggs into super facehugger eggs on one of the later-crew.
That facehugger than spits acid around and impregnates Ripley.
Revenge!
Who's CM?
This theory is just silly. It's been covered before, like in the 26 pages that have already been discussed in the other thread. Even if another party had recovered alien eggs, it makes no sense that they'd just bring them to the Sulaco, hide them there, and hope everything plays out the way they want it to. If the company recovered eggs, they would be studying them in their own labs. There would be no reason to bring them to the Sulaco, especially hide them there and then leave. There are so many problems with this theory it's not even worth going into. Plus, in Alien3 Bishop says the Alien was with them ALL THE WAY.... as in, as soon as they left LV-426.
Quote
1) It doesn't make sense that the Queen on Sulaco can lay eggs. Her egg sack had been ripped from her. Her body is quite skinny, so it would take some time for her to produce an egg and force it out of her body. That time frame just doesn't exist in the movie. The Queen also came directly out of the dropship.... she had no time to run around the Sulaco and plant an egg, in fact Ripley, Bishop, and Newt would have seen the Queen do this. It doesn't fit with the Queen's biology that she can just force an egg out of her body without the sac attached.
We don't know that the egg sac is a requirement, and there could very well have been enough time for the Queen to crank out an egg on the trip up to the Sulaco. We see an egg inside the Sulaco somewhere, but it's also implied that the opening to 'Alien3' could be a dream sequence on Ripley's part. It's also implied that what we're seeing is not in chronological order - it's meant to be disorienting, both for the audience and for Ripley. Really the only "reliable" thing you can take from the opening is the stuff Ripley learns *after* waking up:
- there was an Alien onboard
- there was a fire, the cryopods got ejected
- she got facehugged at some point
- Hicks and Newt died in the crash
The blu-ray menu actually addresses it by putting the egg in the dropship's landing gear.
QuoteAfter everything the Marines had gone through, it makes no sense that Ripley didn't do some kind of ship scan to make sure there were no other aliens on board, after the Queen had been eliminated. It would have been COMMON SENSE to scan the ship and look for invaders before going into hyper sleep.
Alternately, she may have simply been so exhausted (and her friends were wounded) and she just needed to let the adrenaline die down. Makes plenty of sense that she'd have overlooked doing a shipwide scan, especially after she just ejected a Queen out of the airlock using a mechanical loader.
QuoteUnless the egg was somewhere near the cryo room, the face hugger would have had to spit TONS of acid and open all these doors into order to get in there and impregnate Ripley. But still, no answer to why the egg opened in the first place.
Assuming it would have had to open any doors in the first place. As for why it opened, perhaps it just... opened. I really don't have a problem with that, to be honest.
QuoteThis doesn't matter in the least. When Bishop said that line, he was stating he cannot harm a human being on his own accord. But he is a *robot*. He has to taken orders from *someone*. He is property of the *company*.
He's actually USCM property - the Marines all knew him and had served with him before. And even when taking orders, the First Law overrides that.
QuoteWhat would Bishop do if say, Hudson went A-WOL and started trying to stab Newt? What if the only way to stop Hudson from doing this, was to harm Hudson? By your logic, Bishop wouldn't be able to do anything, because he cannot harm a human being. You're taking his words out of context.
He'd likely have to make a judgment call, but that's an extreme case. That doesn't mean he'd knowingly endanger the characters by putting an Alien egg or two onboard the Sulaco. Doing so would violate the First Law.
QuoteHe worked for a greedy, manipulative company that did not care about Ripley, the crew, or humanity.
As mentioned, the entire project was Carter Burke's doing. If anyone were to reprogram Bishop, it would have had to have been him (assuming he could have gotten to him).
Quotehe still could have been reprogrammed *before* the Marines sent out on the journey to LV-426.
But to assume that is circular reasoning. You're assuming he's reprogrammed so you can use it as evidence that he planted the eggs, but the only way to justify him planting the eggs is to say he's been reprogrammed. That's circular.
I mean from a quick POV, the Queen brought it on somehow. But if she did, then she didn't have enough time to secretly plant it somelace where no one would see it. The most logical and sensible place she had any realistic time to plant the egg is in the dropship, which needless to say isn't where the egg is shown in Alien 3.
But for a logical POV, the best theory is Bishop or another xeno somehow planted the egg. Bishop could have lied about how long it took for the dropship to arrive, took some time (maybe a different egg nursry?) to grab an egg, hide it in the dropship, then go resuce Ripley and the others.
I personally don't like to think of Bishop as a bad guy. But if we believe he has no freewill, then he is just being used for bad purposes.
QuoteThe most logical and sensible place she had any realistic time to plant the egg is in the dropship, which needless to say isn't where the egg is shown in Alien 3.
This assumes we take what we see in the opening of 'Alien3' literally, which may not be the case. As mentioned, the blu-ray shows the egg in the dropship's landing gear.
Well from what I've read all over the net, on IMDB, forums, and in that 26-page thread, this all is just more reason for me to disregard Alien3 (and thus, Resurrection) as canon. I sure hope if another Alien movie is made, it does not follow Ripley after the events of Resurrection. I'd prefer a new Alien franchise to begin, with entirely different characters. They could easily forget the derelict as well, and find some eggs on another planet, and completely ignore the continuity of the four films we have.
Likewise, I don't know why it was so hard to come up with a good Alien3 script. So I hear, 3/4 out of the scripts that were created involved some egg magically appearing on the Sulaco. They could have done something with alien eggs being discovered on some other planet, and Ripley being involved. My Alien3 idea is to have Ripley, Hicks, Bishop and Newt return to Earth. Perhaps they are all good friends, or even a family. Several years after they return to earth, the company arrives with some eggs they've recovered from some planet. Everything goes out of control, as usual, and the aliens begin to take over a futuristic earth. Ripley (Hicks, Newt, Bishop) naturally gets involved, due to her prior knowledge on the alien.
Actually, come to think of it, what if Ripley, Hicks, Newt and Bishop did return to Earth, and the company scans the Sulaco, and finds Alien DNA aboard the ship from the Queen, and clones it? The characters and their clothing could have been covered in alien DNA, due to their encounters with the aliens.
Alien3 is really quite boring and not really entertaining. I don't really need it.
I'm entirely surprised there are no EU theories about how the egg got on board. Doesn't the EU have anything to say about this?
QuoteI'm entirely surprised there are no EU theories about how the egg got on board. Doesn't the EU have anything to say about this?
Let's wait for Aliens: Colonial Marines.
QuoteWell from what I've read all over the net, on IMDB, forums, and in that 26-page thread, this all is just more reason for me to disregard Alien3 (and thus, Resurrection) as canon.
Your call to make, I guess. :)
The IMDb forums are a cesspit of idiocy and unmitigated garbage, though. Just sayin'. In the grand scheme of internet forums, they're barely one step above the GameFAQs forums.
QuoteLikewise, I don't know why it was so hard to come up with a good Alien3 script.
The thing is that the 'Alien3' script we got isn't "bad", especially if the only problem you're finding with it is "where did the egg come from?". It's a problem, but it's certainly not unsolvable - as mentioned, the blu-ray menu fixes it with pretty much no effort at all. :P
QuoteAlien3 is really quite boring and not really entertaining. I don't really need it.
Diff'rent squids for diff'rent kids, I guess. 'Alien3' is my favorite Alien film.
QuoteI'm entirely surprised there are no EU theories about how the egg got on board. Doesn't the EU have anything to say about this?
Nope, mostly since the EU doesn't follow Ripley's story (other than the initial trilogy of comics that got retconned after 'Alien3' came out. Really there wasn't any reason for the EU to touch on it.
With the upcoming Colonial Marines game promising to take us back to the Sulaco, though, we might see it addressed somehow. Maybe the characters will board the Sulaco and find an egg on the inside of the dropship's landing gear, who knows?
By accepting that Bishop is the reason, youre accepting that:
1) Bishop got hold of an egg somehow. He couldnt get it in the lab because the lab only had facehuggers, not eggs. He also couldnt go into the hive - we see remotely piloting the dropship and he doesnt go anywhere else. Then Ripley goes into the hive, theres no Bishop there. He didnt follow her and even of he did somehow, Ripley blasted all the eggs anyway. And he couldnt land anywhere there anyway
2) He hid it on the dropship and went to pick up Ripley
3) They return to the Sulaco, land, then Bishop gets ripped in half by the queen
4) After the survivors (including Bishop) are in stasis, he somehow wakes up (despite the fact that Ripley programmed the tubes), drags himself out of the stasis chamber and drags himself to the dropship.
5) He then hauls himself aboard the dropship, finds his hiding spot for the egg, hauls it out of the dropship and into the armory on the Sulaco (an impressive feat with no legs and just 2 arms to move himself and the egg!)
6) He then somehow sticks it upside down under the table or something, whilst still basically just being an upper torso.
7) He then drags himself back to the stasis pods and climbs back in.
Its much easier to accept that the queen simply laid an egg while on Sulaco to ensure the survival of the species. This theory is also filled with holes but its still more logical and plausible
Also Alien eggs can use their tendrils for locomotion.
Jussayin'
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Oct 31, 2011, 05:22:40 PM
Also Alien eggs can use their tendrils for locomotion.
Jussayin'
Really? :o
If not, they can also open the petal-like parts and fly off like helicopters.
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Oct 31, 2011, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Oct 31, 2011, 05:22:40 PM
Also Alien eggs can use their tendrils for locomotion.
Jussayin'
Really? :o
If not, they can also open the petal-like parts and fly off like helicopters.
And lastly if the first and second fail, they can fall on their side and roll over to whatever direction, propelling the movement with both tendrils and petals!
;D
Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2011, 03:06:48 PMThe thing is that the 'Alien3' script we got isn't "bad", especially if the only problem you're finding with it is "where did the egg come from?". It's a problem, but it's certainly not unsolvable - as mentioned, the blu-ray menu fixes it with pretty much no effort at all. :P
Xenomrph, was it just your implication, that opening sequence of A^3 could be Ripley's dream, or was it stated by anyone involved into its production? Nice conception anyway! :-)
Quote from: StayFrosty on Oct 31, 2011, 02:13:11 PM
My Alien3 idea is to have Ripley, Hicks, Bishop and Newt return to Earth. Perhaps they are all good friends, or even a family. Several years after they return to earth, the company arrives with some eggs they've recovered from some planet. Everything goes out of control, as usual, and the aliens begin to take over a futuristic earth.
It's exactly what I have been pondering over for years, since I first saw Alien^3 back in 92-93. I even managed to concort some story this summer, however it's not the Earth and it's not the family. If you are interested to take a look, I'll show you it (after translating) ;-)
Quote from: StrangeShape on Oct 31, 2011, 04:43:43 PM
By accepting that Bishop is the reason, youre accepting that:
1) Bishop got hold of an egg somehow. He couldnt get it in the lab because the lab only had facehuggers, not eggs. He also couldnt go into the hive - we see remotely piloting the dropship and he doesnt go anywhere else. Then Ripley goes into the hive, theres no Bishop there. He didnt follow her and even of he did somehow, Ripley blasted all the eggs anyway. And he couldnt land anywhere there anyway
2) He hid it on the dropship and went to pick up Ripley
3) They return to the Sulaco, land, then Bishop gets ripped in half by the queen
4) After the survivors (including Bishop) are in stasis, he somehow wakes up (despite the fact that Ripley programmed the tubes), drags himself out of the stasis chamber and drags himself to the dropship.
5) He then hauls himself aboard the dropship, finds his hiding spot for the egg, hauls it out of the dropship and into the armory on the Sulaco (an impressive feat with no legs and just 2 arms to move himself and the egg!)
6) He then somehow sticks it upside down under the table or something, whilst still basically just being an upper torso.
7) He then drags himself back to the stasis pods and climbs back in.
Its much easier to accept that the queen simply laid an egg while on Sulaco to ensure the survival of the species. This theory is also filled with holes but its still more logical and plausible
Well, ANY theory is filled with plot-holes. There's just no way to explain this nonsense.
But, just for the sake of it...
No, my theory was that while Ripley was off saving Newt, Bishop grabbed an egg, took it to the Sulaco, and hid it somewhere on board. That's all. He did all this BEFORE the Queen cut him in half. Re-read what I said for further explanation.
It's also possible Bishop did all this before the original dropship flown by Ferro and Spunkmeyer crashed. How he located an egg, I don't know. In this theory, Bishop finds an egg and gets Ferro and Spunkmeyer to fly him to the Sulaco, where he plants it there and flies back with them. They don't know about it.
What we do know is that there WERE eggs in other places besides where the Queen lays them. We see a few colonists cocooned in other places in the facility, with eggs in front of them. Obviously, the Queen lays the eggs and then the Warrior aliens take them somewhere else.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Oct 31, 2011, 05:22:40 PM
Also Alien eggs can use their tendrils for locomotion.
Jussayin'
I'd more readily believe that than I'd believe that Bishop planted any eggs. :P
QuoteXenomrph, was it just your implication, that opening sequence of A^3 could be Ripley's dream, or was it stated by anyone involved into its production? Nice conception anyway! :-)
No one has outright stated it, no. I suspect the only person who could give a definitive answer (David Fincher) will never comment on it.
The simplest theory in my opinion is:
A facehugger hitchs a ride with the queen.
The queen is able to through survival of the species kinda thing to lay one egg without her eggsac (if you wish to believe that this is a queen facehugger go right ahead).
She lays that egg in the drop ship landing gear.
She hops out and has her fisticuffs with ripley.
the face hugger that hitched the ride moves the egg (by dragging it with its tail) and does this out of instinct - "don't be where your enemy expects you to be".
Ripely puts everyone into hypersleep.
Egg hatches
We now have two facehuggers - one gets ripley and the other gets the dog.
All other theories don't really explain with any real plausibility (in my opinion) the location of the egg. A super facehugger theory explains the two aliens but not the egg location.
Quote from: stephen on Nov 01, 2011, 01:08:11 AM
The simplest theory in my opinion is:
A facehugger hitchs a ride with the queen.
The queen is able to through survival of the species kinda thing to lay one egg without her eggsac (if you wish to believe that this is a queen facehugger go right ahead).
She lays that egg in the drop ship landing gear.
She hops out and has her fisticuffs with ripley.
the face hugger that hitched the ride moves the egg (by dragging it with its tail) and does this out of instinct - "don't be where your enemy expects you to be".
Ripely puts everyone into hypersleep.
Egg hatches
We now have two facehuggers - one gets ripley and the other gets the dog.
All other theories don't really explain with any real plausibility (in my opinion) the location of the egg. A super facehugger theory explains the two aliens but not the egg location.
Actually, your theory just gave me an idea.
Like in my original theory, a chestburster hitched a ride with the Queen onto the dropship. The Queen lays an egg on the dropship. By the time everyone goes into hypersleep, the chestburster is a full-grown alien. This Alien takes the egg and moves it to where we see it on the Sulaco in Alien3. The egg hatches, and the facehugger breaks into Ripley's cryo tube. The cryo tubes are all moved into the escape shuttle, and the facehugger goes with it. But the alien that moved the egg stays behind on the Sulaco, eventually starving to death.
I do believe it's even possible for a chestburster to crawl inside the Queen and live in her temporarily. As a kid when I saw the Kenner Alien Queen figure and the small arms sticking out of her chest, I actually thought it was supposed to be a chestburster living inside her, like she was storing it there while it grows. My mom told me that's what it was.
But... I do think it's clear in Alien3 that there was only one face hugger. As I've posted already, it makes sense that a Queen face hugger can lay two embryos - first a regular alien which prepares the way for the Queen, then the Queen itself. Queen face hugger.
I still don't understand why Ripley didn't scan the ship to make sure the coast is clear from aliens, but this assumes it's actually possible to scan the ship for lifeforms.
So your theory + my theory seems to make sense to me now. I just don't like the idea of a face hugger being intelligent enough to move an egg... face huggers are just stupid little parasites with very limited reasoning. Is all they think about is impregnating someone to satisfy what it obviously a strong and intense mating (sexual) desire. I'm sure the face huggers gain a lot of pleasure while impregnating someone.... a lot of orgasms.
But, the idea of a chestburster being on board and growing up to move the egg works.
And obviously, the full-grown alien is what 'told' the egg to hatch.
Why a full grown alien or chestburster?
Why are facehuggers stupid? they don't necessarily have to be smart - just instinctual.
Quote from: stephen on Nov 01, 2011, 02:02:42 AM
Why a full grown alien or chestburster?
Why are facehuggers stupid? they don't necessarily have to be smart - just instinctual.
Why is it hard to believe a chestburster hitched a ride onto the dropship with the Queen? The Chestburster grows and matured into a Xenomorph, and moves the egg. It doesn't make sense if the Facehugger moves the egg. The egg was hidden on a ceiling or something! Imagine how it would look if the facehugger climbed the wall with the egg. It doesn't make sense, and I think everyone will see it that way.
Your theory + my theory works. Good job. The theory works way better if a chestburster is involved. There is no reason to believe a chestburster could not have been with the Queen on the dropship. And we all know chestbursters mature into a full-grown alien.
There would be no reason for a facehugger to move the egg, either. Is all it has to do is hatch, leave the egg, and impregnante Ripley. But that raises questions like how the facehugger got out of the dropship in the first place? And what made the egg hatch? With an alien, it makes sense that an alien is able to break open the drop ship, carry the egg, and even tell the egg to open for the facehugger to hatch.
I don't like it. Where did the chestburster come from? Why did it think to hitch a ride on the Queen? When did it even get the opportunity, as the whole place was exploding and on-fire? We don't see any other hosts or whatever, and all the colonists' bodies were at the hatchery where the Marines got ambushed. It couldn't have been any of the captured Marines, either.
I still prefer the "Queen cranked out an egg or two" explanation, it really is the simplest one.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 01, 2011, 03:35:07 AM
I don't like it. Where did the chestburster come from? Why did it think to hitch a ride on the Queen? When did it even get the opportunity, as the whole place was exploding and on-fire? We don't see any other hosts or whatever, and all the colonists' bodies were at the hatchery where the Marines got ambushed. It couldn't have been any of the captured Marines, either.
I still prefer the "Queen cranked out an egg or two" explanation, it really is the simplest one.
Yes, but again the question arises of how that egg got from the dropship to the Sulaco and managed to hatch itself.
I don't buy your dream theory at all. The egg on the dropship is not in the movie, just on some crappy DVD menu.
Even if the egg was on the dropship, we don't know why the egg hatched or how the facehugger managed to get from the dropship all the way to the cryo chambers.
Also, you told me elsewhere that you believe there were colonists being kept alive elsewhere, even while the Marines were on LV-426. It's possible one of the colonists outlived some of the Marines. The chestburster hatches from one of the colonists, and rides with the Queen onto the Sulaco. The Queen is supposed to be extremely smart... I read elsewhere that in the EU, a queen was given some kind of human-equivilent IQ test, and passed higher than most humans. The Queen obviously communicates with the aliens telepathically and can control what they do... even a chestburster. So, the queen orders the chestburster to come to her, knowing with her high intelligence that she can sneak it past the humans without them noticing it. Then the Queen pops out an egg as well. Problem solved. This theory solves all the problems.
"Queen cranks out an egg" is the simplest explanation, but needs something extra to compliment it. Even with my theory, questions do arise, and it's even far-fetched, but it clears up the plot-hole.
QuoteYes, but again the question arises of how that egg got from the dropship to the Sulaco and managed to hatch itself.
It doesn't have to have moved, that assumes what we're seeing in the opening titles is meant to be taken literally. It might not be.
As for why the egg opened, ultimately I don't think it matters. I really don't have a problem with an egg opening by itself, or having other triggers we don't know. The egg near Newt opened only after she woke up, despite her being in the same proximity and not moving for quite some time. Why didn't it open the moment she was cocooned? Why did it wait until she was awake? Likewise, the egg near Ripley on her way out of the Queen's chamber opened pretty much of its own accord, when it (or any of the others Ripley snuck past) could have opened at pretty much any moment. Why did that particular one choose that particular moment? We don't know.
QuoteThis theory solves all the problems.
Well, except for the problem that we have no evidence of a chestburster (or the resultant adult Alien). :P
Quotejust on some crappy DVD menu.
You can pooh-pooh it, but it's still the official blu-ray menu. If that's how FOX is choosing to sort out the plot-hole in a way that makes perfect sense, I'm inclined to buy it. :P
QuoteAlso, you told me elsewhere that you believe there were colonists being kept alive elsewhere, even while the Marines were on LV-426.
No I didn't. :) Hudson points out that he found all the colonist PDTs in one location. Obviously the PDTs keep transmitting after death, since Hudson was able to pick them up. After scanning the whole colony, he found them all in one area.
Well... this is getting redundant now. But I'll add a little bit more...
The eggs that opened near Newt and Ripley at the end of the film were in close proximity to the Queen. The Queen could have 'ordered/told' those eggs to open.
When I said colonists being kept elsewhere, I didn't entirely mean 'elsewhere'. Hudson saw all the colonists in one area, yes... but he also said IIRC "All of them, I *think*". He may have not scanned the entire facility, and didn't bother to scan the rest when he found the vast majority of them there. But you did tell me you believe there were other colonists who may have given birth to other aliens, even if they were all in that area. That sector seemed to be pretty big. I assume this because all the colonists are supposed to be there, yet how many of them do we see? So the area was probably big enough that all the colonists weren't necessarly killed in the first battle. I don't personally believe this though. But... by your own admission, the aliens took days or weeks to actually use some of the colonists they captured as hosts. The "ALIENS" "Cocooned Woman" was still alive when the Marines arrived. For whatever reason, she wasn't used by the aliens until later. So, Apone and Deitreich might not have been used as soon as they were captured either. But.... it's obvious in ALIEN it took a good few hours for Kane to be impregnated and for the Alien to become full grown. In ALIENS, after Detreich and Apone are taken, there's maybe only 6-8 hours before the Queen ends up on the drop ship. There might be a few holes in what I'm saying here, but the point is it's very possible a chestburster could be in existence while the Queen is fighting Ripley and Newt.
It doesn't matter if there's no evidence of a chestburster. This chestburster is basically needed for the theory to work, because in your theory the Facehugger gets off the dropship, crawls through the Sulaco, and ends up in the cryo stasis room. That implies it opened a bunch of doors.
I will admit now that the Queen could have TOLD the egg to open shortly after she laid it on board the dropship... meaning the Face hugger could have been outside of the egg before the Queen was sucked into space. But it still would be trapped on board the dropship.
BUT.... this re-raises an old question. Why wasn't this egg and face hugger sucked out into space with the Queen? Even in my theory, the chestburster and egg should have been sucked out.
So, still NONE of it makes sense.
FOX clears up a plot hole by creating a Blu-Ray menu? It shows just how bad the situation is in the first place that they admit to this plot hole. It's even more pathetic that they try to fix it with some meaningless menu screen. Their "fix" still doesn't work because the egg should have been sucked out into space. Yet, when it comes to this at least, my Bishop theory still works. The egg was contained closed in an entirely different room, and thus was not sucked out. This implies that there were in fact doors sealing parts of the Sulaco off from other rooms.
In any event, if there were no doors between the dropship area and the cryo area, most/all of items onboard the ship would have been sucked out into space, unless they were held down. So there were clearly doors sealing off the ship, meaning your facehugger had to open these doors and crawl though the ship.
I'm still going to go with my chestburster theory. I'm gonna believe that Ripley hit a button to close the dropship as soon as the Queen came out, thus nothing would be sucked out (Hicks was also clearly sealed in the dropship). But you can't use this explanation for your theory, because that means the facehugger had to open a bunch of doors.
QuoteBut you did tell me you believe there were other colonists who may have given birth to other aliens, even if they were all in that area.
Yes, but even if one of the colonists in the hatchery gave birth to an Alien, that's still nowhere near the Queen's chamber.
QuoteBUT.... this re-raises an old question. Why wasn't this egg and face hugger sucked out into space with the Queen? Even in my theory, the chestburster and egg should have been sucked out.
Not if they were affixed well inside the landing gear, no. Maybe it got wedged in the landing gear and couldn't get sucked out. I'm not seeing the problem.
QuoteIn any event, if there were no doors between the dropship area and the cryo area, most/all of items onboard the ship would have been sucked out into space, unless they were held down. So there were clearly doors sealing off the ship, meaning your facehugger had to open these doors and crawl though the ship.
That assumes any of the doors remained closed when Ripley put everyone in cryosleep. Even if they were open when the airlock was open, stuff isn't going to get sucked around corners to go out of the ship. The airlock wasn't open for THAT long. We have no indication that there were any closed doors between the dropship hangar and the cryotubes.
QuoteFOX clears up a plot hole by creating a Blu-Ray menu? It shows just how bad the situation is in the first place that they admit to this plot hole.
At least they fixed it. Really that's the important part.
QuoteTheir "fix" still doesn't work because the egg should have been sucked out into space.
Sure it works - why did it have to be sucked out into space? I've got no problems believing that it wouldn't have been.
QuoteYet, when it comes to this at least, my Bishop theory still works.
No it doesn't, because it assumes a fundamental change in Bishop's character that's not supported anywhere else in the film, and it assumes someone was somehow able to reprogram him when we've got no evidence that he was ever reprogrammed. It's circular reasoning - the only reason you think he'd have been reprogrammed was so he could plant the egg, but the only way he could have planted the egg was if he'd been reprogrammed. You can't prove either of those, and using one to prove the other doesn't work.
QuoteI'm gonna believe that Ripley hit a button to close the dropship as soon as the Queen came out, thus nothing would be sucked out (Hicks was also clearly sealed in the dropship).
That assumes the landing gear needs to be a pressurized, sealable environment as opposed to the crew/passengers area. If the diagrams and blueprints of the dropship in the tech manual are any indication, that is not the case.
QuoteI'm still going to go with my chestburster theory.
You still haven't shown any indication that there even was a chestburster (or the resultant Alien). I could make up a theory where there was another corporate stooge working with Burke who was on LV-426 too, and he was the one who planted the egg. There's just as much evidence for that as there is for some sort of chestburster or whatever.
Which is to say, there IS no evidence. :P
I think the beginning of the Alien 3 book should be rewritten so that we can all have a firm explaination for it! I think it would be imposible to reshoot the first few minutes of the film (unless they did it totally animated)..
As per page 1 - we have a thread for this already. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg9#msg9)
Quote from: StayFrosty on Oct 31, 2011, 12:43:43 PM
What would Bishop do if say, Hudson went A-WOL and started trying to stab Newt? What if the only way to stop Hudson from doing this, was to harm Hudson? By your logic, Bishop wouldn't be able to do anything, because he cannot harm a human being.
"... or by
omission of action allow to come to harm ..."
Bishop could incapacitate Hudson without harming or killing him. He's clearly faster than a human.
QuotePlus, what if Bishop was lying that he cannot harm a human being? What if he was just saying what the company wanted to say to shut Ripley up?
What if the egg just
magicked itself into existence aboard the ship? I'll take what's said and shown in the film over wild and baseless supposition from someone trying to substantiate an idea that should've done a good enough job proving itself wrong straight out of the gate.
QuoteEven if Bishop was property of the military, and not the company directly, he still could have been reprogrammed *before* the Marines sent out on the journey to LV-426.
By who?
Burke's out for the Aliens, not the Company. This is made
abundantly clear several times throughout the movie.
QuoteI don't understand why the directors blatantly put these plot-holes into the movie. What were his reasons for making this creative decision?
He preferred the look of the pods from
Alien -- same reason he made sure the Alien had a dome on it. It's not a plot hole; a continuity error, sure, but it's not a plot hole.
A wizard did it.
This egg problem has been bothering me for years, just like everyone else. I've thought up various theories and read even more. Maybe the Queen laid an egg; maybe Bishop did it; maybe there were a few synthetics hiding on the Sulaco that swooped down and grabbed some eggs when no one was looking, ect. The idea I have been going with for some time is that another alien was hiding in the landing gear of the drop ship; it's not great but, whatever.
I've recently come up with a new idea. This idea was spawned from what little we have learned about Aliens: Colonial Marines and Aliens: Infestation. The makers of A:CM are saying that they are intending to answer some of the series' questions; hopefully the magic egg is one of them. So I got thinking how they might do this. One thing they have done at least in Aliens: Infestation is to introduce the UPP. I have heard that the UPP may be responsible for bringing the eggs onboard. Although as others have mentioned. If the UPP managed to swing down and grab some eggs before the atmosphere processer blew, why the hell would they bother boarding the Sulaco? What's the point? I don't particularly like this scenario, so I pieced together a different one, which still involves the UPP. Now this idea may be a little out there but here it goes.
After the start of the infestation at Hadley's Hope a person sympathetic to the UPP got a message to them before they lost communication. In this message they are told of a new life form that may be of value to them. But the learn little else of what it is or how it works. Still they decide to check it out. So the UPP sends a team to investigate. But by the time they get there the Sulaco is already in orbit. The UPP keeps its distance and monitors the situation. Shortly after their arrival the AP plant goes up and moments later a drop ship is seen leaving LV-426's orbit and docking with the Sulaco. The UPP thinks they have missed their chance and are preparing to leave when the Sulaco's dock doors open and a large life form is seen being jettisoned from the ship. The UPP after scanning the Sulaco and finding that the crew is in hyper-sleep decides to go and check it out. They find the Queen who despite having already started to freeze up is still alive. They decide to bring her aboard and try to container her. Of course this goes very wrong; she escapes their grasp and kills a number of the crew. In the chaos a few UPP soldiers get off a couple of lucky shots. The Queen does not die but manages to splash acid blood everywhere before disappearing into the bowels of the ship. The blood has managed to damage the life-support systems beyond repair leaving the UPP crew in dire straits. They can't make it back to their base and they can't land on LV-426 due to radiation. So they decide to dock with the Sulaco and wait for help to come. Some of the crew wants to set the UPP vessel to self destruct, but the captain wants the Queen. He hopes with renewed forces they can catch and study the Queen. But of course the Queen manages to get back aboard the Sulaco, and all hell breaks loose. The Queen starts laying eggs and before long the UPP are wiped out. In the process a facehugger gets cut on Newt's cryotube and starts a fire, another impregnates Ripley. Ripley and crew are sent to the EEV along with one more facehugger. The Sulaco is left drifting in space, while the EEV lands on Fury 161. W-Y send the Panta to collect Ripley thinking it is their best chance to capture a Queen, but that falls through. They then locate the Sulaco and confirm that there are Aliens onboard. They tug the Sulaco back to LV-426 and set up a radiation resistant research station planet side. They begin studying the Sulaco, Hadley's Hope and the Xenomorphs. Once again all hell breaks loose and the Sephora is sent in to investigate.
Ok there it is, feel free to pick it apart.
DemonicD13,
although your theory sounds complecated, nevertheless I find it to be more colourful, than materialised from the thin air egg or two-faced Bishop. Yes, intrusion of another space vessel and intentional or contingent infestation of the Sulaco could sort of solve titled problem, but on the other hand it would come into contradiction with Bishop's affirmation that Alien "was all the way with them" (meant, it hitchhiked its way to Fury aboard the EEV as well).
And, I thought you should know that after explosion on LV 426, there was left a big, 30 km-radius pit at the place where Hadley's Hope existed before... And there was gone all last local Xenos!
QuoteI've recently come up with a new idea. This idea was spawned from what little we have learned about Aliens: Colonial Marines and Aliens: Infestation. The makers of A:CM are saying that they are intending to answer some of the series' questions; hopefully the magic egg is one of them.
The story they've come up with isn't terribly coherent. I wouldn't hold my breath they had any solid answers.
I know some of the stuff we've seen has raised some questions. But, I still am holding out some hope. If done right it could be satisfying. I think 2012 will be a big year for Alien fans.
Quote from: SM on Nov 02, 2011, 11:04:28 PM
QuoteI've recently come up with a new idea. This idea was spawned from what little we have learned about Aliens: Colonial Marines and Aliens: Infestation. The makers of A:CM are saying that they are intending to answer some of the series' questions; hopefully the magic egg is one of them.
The story they've come up with isn't terribly coherent. I wouldn't hold my breath they had any solid answers.
It's not even like it's difficult to answer. You're scouting the Sulaco, you get to the hangar bay, you find an egg inside the dropship's landing gear. Problem solved. :)
... and then pick the egg up and glue it to the ceiling of a nearby corridor? ???
Then again I guess a game that's asking us to believe the colony withstood a ten megaton blast a few kilometres (only half a kilometer in the script, but whatever) away isn't afraid to assume its audience will gladly eat retarded ideas for breakfast.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 03, 2011, 11:42:48 AM
... and then pick the egg up and glue it to the ceiling of a nearby corridor? ???
I'm just taking the route the blu-ray menu does, that the egg was actually in the landing gear (which makes sense), but what we see in the movie (which doesn't make sense) may not be meant to be taken literally.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 03, 2011, 03:59:11 PM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 03, 2011, 11:42:48 AM
... and then pick the egg up and glue it to the ceiling of a nearby corridor? ???
I'm just taking the route the blu-ray menu does, that the egg was actually in the landing gear (which makes sense), but what we see in the movie (which doesn't make sense) may not be meant to be taken literally.
The only thing that would make sense is, if the egg we see in the movie was a different egg.
Ok according to people watching the blu-ray anthology of alien 3, apparently the menu clearly shows that the queen put the eggs in the landing gear. now i dont know, let alone believe that the queen put them their, but i think it was lazily chosen on the directors part. They state she put 2 eggs on the landing gear of the dropship, so unless they were on her back or they were sneakily snuck up her snatch, its the only logical place an alien would of been placed.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=35629.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=35629.0) (For reinforcement of the Blu-Ray menu)
Wait I thought we solved this yesterday? There was never any eggs. It was all just a dream Ripley had. Face hungers are like cockroaches, a few scuttled on board and hid out for a while.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 04, 2012, 07:47:02 AM
Wait I thought we solved this yesterday? There was never any eggs. It was all just a dream Ripley had. Face hungers are like cockroaches, a few scuttled on board and hid out for a while.
Hey, i only just got here. i just skimmed through most of the post
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 04, 2012, 07:47:02 AM
Wait I thought we solved this yesterday? There was never any eggs. It was all just a dream Ripley had. Face hungers are like cockroaches, a few scuttled on board and hid out for a while.
This is a different thread. You're talking about this (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=40793.msg1256127#new).
Also, thanks, I think it makes more sense now:
There was no egg. The Queen got in and so did a Facehugger (or two), and while in hypersleep or even on Fury while in sleep, Ripley's subconscious is trying to make sense out of it.
Whoops I really should have used the spoiler tag. :P
But yea it was all just Ripley's subconscience trying to make sense of the smothering sensation of being face-hugged. Just as Kane alluded to in alien. Hence one huge dream sequence. That's what the director pretty much said. So no egg. It also ties into alien since Cameron added the scuttling face hugger noises at the end of aliens.
The scuttling sound was just an easter egg. Either way, it still doesnt explain why Ripley, knowing a Queen smuggled in, would make a bioscan of the ship and go to sleep without thoroughly checking for more hitchhikers
Not to mention the Hugger being able to open the doors.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jan 04, 2012, 03:17:21 PM
Not to mention the Hugger being able to open the doors.
And use elevators. I highly doubt cryo chamber was on the same level. Not to mention activate power and overpass the computer (to make doors work). According to novels (and common logic), all systems are dead/in a freeze mode when cryosleep is on. No doors or anything works, only the basic functions and life support to conserve energy
And its not only a question of how did it got into the chamber, but how did he found it as well
It(they) crawled through the ceiling ducts.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 05, 2012, 01:44:14 AM
It(they) crawled through the ceiling ducts.
So, what activated the egg.
Quote from: xeno_alpha_07 on Jan 05, 2012, 01:47:33 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 05, 2012, 01:44:14 AM
It(they) crawled through the ceiling ducts.
So, what activated the egg.
Egg-sac-ly. The first two movies showed us the egg opens only if it feels a host near it. Kane had to tinker with it pretty long until it opened. And all of them were closed, laying dormant for who knows how many years
That's the thing, according to fincher there was no eggs. The eggs we see and hear was Ripley having a dream.
Yea seriously. :P
Fincher said that?
Probably his interpretation of Fincher talking about wanting the intro to have more of a dream quality.
I figured. Exceedingly broad interpretation.
I like the idea that it's her subconsciousness, whether it was said or not. A very cool idea!
Quote from: SM on Jan 05, 2012, 04:32:51 AM
Fincher said that?
He didn't outright say it but he definitely alluded to it. The way I took what he said was that "he" was baffled how no one figured it out by now. The beginning was a dream sequence, after all she was asleep and in a way was looking from the outside in. That ripley imagined it but that was not how it actually happened. I think he's referring to how numbers appear backwards in dreams OR how eggs can appear on unfamiliar walls. Which is why no one here knows where the egg we see actually is on the ship. Because the compartment and the egg on the wall "does not" exist except in Ripley's mind. That's also why no one that worked on it knows either. After all these years of bishop did it and ceiling eggs I kind of gave up. So a face hugger got on and that's it. Ripley was wrong at the end of aliens, it was not safe to dream after all.
Works for me is all I'm saying. :P
QuoteI like the idea that it's her subconsciousness, whether it was said or not. A very cool idea!
it would certainly explain things better than a literal interpretation of the events would.
So, after all these years, case solved?
No, because there's still a msytery over how the egg got on board, whether Alien 3 shows us a literal or dream interpretation the mystery still stands. And of course, it's inherently unanswerable.
Quote from: Valaquen on Jan 05, 2012, 08:57:20 PM
No, because there's still a msytery over how the egg got on board, whether Alien 3 shows us a literal or dream interpretation the mystery still stands. And of course, it's inherently unanswerable.
We could always tie the director up and have him listen to Micheal Bolton music till he tells us if it was a dream or not. However wasn't alien 3 his first major project? No self-respecting director in hind-sight would ever admit to using a dream sequence in a film; as it's regarded as one of the most cheesiest ploys. Which is why I take his hints at it a little more literary.
Of course this debate has been going on for sometime and lol could you imagine fanboys having to accept that it was all just a dream. The only winners would be bishop would never have done it fans. :P
Before you can find out how the egg got on board you must first prove there was ever an egg in the first place.
Again, all roads lead to stupid. The writing was lousy, and as far as I am concerned the audience may feel free to see Alien 3 and Resurrection as apocryphal or not. From what we know though, I think the facts lean more towards supporting the Apocrypha position.
Quote from: The Xenoborg on Jan 05, 2012, 08:40:29 PM
So, after all these years, case solved?
I wouldn't call a directorial allusion to this:
"That's the thing, according to fincher there was no eggs. The eggs we see and hear was Ripley having a dream.
Yea seriously"
So, no. Not really.
Nyahaha, okay then.
Rinse and repeat!
i kinda thought that the queen would have a sort of back up egg up her alien pie , and when she was lifting floor panels lookin for newt she could have stuck it under one of them with super sticky alien slobbers , none of those floor panels were lifted by the vacuum , and if you go with the "directors" edition which i personally prefer then one egg is all that was needed, think of it as her back up heir to the throne if you will , would explain its need for 2 embryos and why ripley got the queen first , give it longer to cook while a servant alien was hatched from a host ... works in my mind anyway
If she stuck an egg under while lifting up tiles, either Newt, Bishop or the audience would've seen it.
maybe but newt was hiding, and as for bishop ; he wasnt the most mobile he had been in a while at that point
Nevertheless we see him watching the Queen.
true
I recently and ironically had a (bad) dream, concerning this whole "egg on the Sulaco" equivocal topic, and just want to relate what I've seen and which conclusions I came to straight away after it. Not that I have nightmares because of Alien series, this one seemingly was the 1st in ages, if I remember correctly ;)
Well, what I saw was just the sequence of intertwined opening scenes of Alien^3 on board of the Sulaco with a little supplement, i.e. I heard gasping sounds of someone of the crew or probably of all of them, catching the breath, in time of their transportation to the E.E.V. Oxygenic supply and heating must not be working in full swing meanwhile the crew members are sleeping in cryo chamber, so it's possibly might have happen to them. Anyway, listening to those sounds was quite unsettling, moment after I woke up, and the picture of events somehow composed into something integral for me, described in the paragraph below.
There was never any egg aboard the warship, it was the single facehugger, that was brought with the Queen here and wandered presumably a week (or so) on the ship's desks untill it accidentally occured near the sleeping pods and sensed living beings inside. With the the cryotubes, hugger was pushed to the EEV, landed on the Fury and took its time untill the ox's/dog's maw appeared in front of it. And what about the Ripley's Queen chestburster? - I really hate to say this, but we never've seen Newt undergoing scanning, Dietrich has performed only surficial examination to her... Well, I read Vincent Ward's script, which had burster's embryo climbing out of Newt into Ripley's mouth, when they were plunging into the ocean and Newt was drowning (or correct me, please, whose screenplay version it was). So if to suppose, that Newt was yet infected in Hafley's Hope with Queen chestburster (maybe that's why she was left alive)... :-\
Thus, you don't need the strange-looking egg and two-embryos superfacehugger to explain the premise of A^3 events. They could be sent on account of Ripley's dream, as well as altered Sulaco's external and internal sights. ;)
Once the queen snuck on and sensed all her children have died and she was the last one left she decided to lay her backup egg or last egg that every queen would carry so the species may continue. If the queen were getting old and was still attached to her egg sack the last egg she lays is a queen one so the species may go on
Quote from: Queen7 on Jan 17, 2012, 09:49:59 PM
Once the queen snuck on and sensed all her children have died and she was the last one left she decided to lay her backup egg or last egg that every queen would carry so the species may continue. If the queen were getting old and was still attached to her egg sack the last egg she lays is a queen one so the species may go on
The problems are:
1. When does she lay the egg, since New and more so Bishop is watching her all the time
2. Where does she lay the egg, since its stuck upside down
3. How come Ripley and Bishop dont search for any more aliens knowing one snuck in and dont do bioscan. Surealy the dropship wouldve been taken apart to check if anything else came through
It is a plot hole that will never truly be answered there will only be assumptions
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jan 18, 2012, 11:04:19 PM
The problems are:
1. When does she lay the egg, since New and more so Bishop is watching her all the time
2. Where does she lay the egg, since its stuck upside down
3. How come Ripley and Bishop dont search for any more aliens knowing one snuck in and dont do bioscan. Surealy the dropship wouldve been taken apart to check if anything else came through
1. She lays the egg in the drop ship landing gear enroute to the Sulaco.
2. Once she has laid the egg and the dropship has docked, she hops out and has her fisticuffs with Ripley, at some point, a facehugger that hitched a ride with her, moves the egg by wrapping its tail around it. Once in location, the egg has EXTREMELY LIMITED movement and attaches itself upside down. The facehugger moves the egg (perhaps sensing that it is a queen facehugger) to not be where your enemy expects you to be and out of a survival instinct.
3. This is answered by number 2. Although we don't see it, we can assume that Ripley searched the dropship landing gear where the queen was and found nothing because the egg had been moved by the facehugger.
My theory in more detail:
A facehugger hitchs a ride with the queen.
The queen is able to through survival of the species kinda thing to lay one egg without her eggsac (if you wish to believe that this is a queen facehugger go right ahead).
She lays that egg in the drop ship landing gear.
She hops out and has her fisticuffs with ripley.
the face hugger that hitched the ride moves the egg (by dragging it with its tail) and does this out of instinct - "don't be where your enemy expects you to be".
Ripely puts everyone into hypersleep.
Egg hatches
We now have two facehuggers - one gets ripley and the other gets the dog.
All other theories don't really explain with any real plausibility (in my opinion) the location of the egg. A super facehugger theory explains the two aliens but not the egg location.
Why would the hugger move the egg?
"don't be where your enemy expects you to be".
The egg wasn't quite ready to hatch yet. The facehugger, perhaps sensing that this was a "queen" egg, needed to move the egg from it's last known location.
Or
Perhaps the actual queen told it too (in whatever language the aliens speak).
Quote from: stephen on Jan 19, 2012, 03:07:12 AM
1. She lays the egg in the drop ship landing gear enroute to the Sulaco.
This doesnt look like a dropship landing gear tho
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa277%2Flovegunner%2FAVP%2Funtitled-4.jpg&hash=365c48a8ba1365e7fb4357642516bfa59b35be5d)
And problem still remains why no bioscan of the ship, and why not checking the dropship thoroughly, ESPECALLY the landing gear where the Queen hid. That would be the first place to check
Quote2. Once she has laid the egg and the dropship has docked, she hops out and has her fisticuffs with Ripley, at some point, a facehugger that hitched a ride with her, moves the egg by wrapping its tail around it.
The problem is, in order for this to work, there would need to be a facehugger there.
Then theres the question of facehugger lifting a giant egg and sticking it upside down. Then theres Bishop who would surely see a huge egg being pushed (?) or lifted (?) by a facehugger. And then of course the facehugger would try to hug Ripley or Newt asap
QuoteOnce in location, the egg has EXTREMELY LIMITED movement and attaches itself upside down.
The egg attaches itself ???
Quote3. This is answered by number 2. Although we don't see it, we can assume that Ripley searched the dropship landing gear where the queen was and found nothing because the egg had been moved by the facehugger
.
Which still doesnt explain why no bioscan. Alien 3 shows us that bioscan of the ship and detection of alien lifeforms on Sulaco is perfectly possible. The onboard computer knew the facehugger was there and even knew it went into cryotube. The bluray menu itself presents a bioscan of the ship locating the egg
QuoteMy theory in more detail:
A facehugger hitchs a ride with the queen.
Which is all fanon and never supported by script, novelization or any of the filmmakers involved in the movie
QuoteThe queen is able to through survival of the species kinda thing to lay one egg without her eggsac (if you wish to believe that this is a queen facehugger go right ahead).
Valaquen lately explained to me that egg cant be laid without eggsac
QuoteShe lays that egg in the drop ship landing gear.
She hops out and has her fisticuffs with ripley.
the face hugger that hitched the ride moves the egg (by dragging it with its tail) and does this out of instinct - "don't be where your enemy expects you to be".
The egg isnt from plastic. Its huge and heavy, theres no way a facehugger could move it with its entire body, let alone the tail. And not to mention lifting it and reaching up. And move it in lighting speed since the docking bay is large and open for view, and it would be a miracle if no one would see a giant egg moving throughout an entire hangar. And of course, facehuggers instinctively try to impregnate the nearest viable host. Hicks and then Newt and then Ripley. Fight or not itd crawl on the suit and bam.
QuoteRipely puts everyone into hypersleep.
Without bioscan of the ship?
QuoteEgg hatches
Why? First two movies showed us that the eggs dont open unless someone gets very close to it. In the first movies they lay there for years if not centuries. Kane had to tinker with it for it to open. They dont open spontaneously
QuoteWe now have two facehuggers - one gets ripley and the other gets the dog.
Again, the second hugger is fanon, would not make sense for it not to attack immediately AND why would it be waiting two weeks?
My answers to the questions raised would be the following:
1. Dont have any answer
2. The egg got into the position in question because of the suction from the open airlock. The suction pulled it and it got stuck on something
3. Dont have an answer
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jan 19, 2012, 04:00:58 AM
This doesnt look like a dropship landing gear tho
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa277%2Flovegunner%2FAVP%2Funtitled-4.jpg&hash=365c48a8ba1365e7fb4357642516bfa59b35be5d)
And problem still remains why no bioscan of the ship, and why not checking the dropship thoroughly, ESPECALLY the landing gear where the Queen hid. That would be the first place to check
I know, which is why I said that the facehugger moved the egg.
My theory has the egg no where near the landing gear of the dropship because the facehugger moved the egg.
QuoteThe problem is, in order for this to work, there would need to be a facehugger there.
Then theres the question of facehugger lifting a giant egg and sticking it upside down. Then theres Bishop who would surely see a huge egg being pushed (?) or lifted (?) by a facehugger. And then of course the facehugger would try to hug Ripley or Newt asap
Again, if you read my theory in detail before responding you would know that I theorised that a facehugger hitched a ride with the queen. Also regarding the egg being upside down, I answered this.
Bishops focus was (rightly so) on the actual queen, what happened behind him was of little importance to him at that stage.
As for the facehugger hugging someone asap, why? Why could it not give more importance to the "queen" egg and making sure that was protected.
Quote
The egg attaches itself ???
Yes.
Quote
Which still doesnt explain why no bioscan. Alien 3 shows us that bioscan of the ship and detection of alien lifeforms on Sulaco is perfectly possible. The onboard computer knew the facehugger was there and even knew it went into cryotube. The bluray menu itself presents a bioscan of the ship locating the egg
Umm not sure exactly what you're referring to here. Are you referring to Bishop saying that there was an alien on board or are you referring directly to the bioscan of Ripley?
Either way, that can be explained by Bishop reading the data directly from the bioscan of Ripley and therefore knowing that there was an alien on board.
Or, perhaps what Bishop was reading was a movement sensor. Therefore when Ripley scanned the ship she scanned it at such a time as the facehugger wasn't moving and therefore didn't pick it up.
As far as the blu ray menu - I haven't seen it and don't consider it canon at this point.
Quote
The egg isnt from plastic. Its huge and heavy, theres no way a facehugger could move it with its entire body, let alone the tail.
Says who?
QuoteAnd move it in lighting speed since the docking bay is large and open for view, and it would be a miracle if no one would see a giant egg moving throughout an entire hangar.
You don't give aliens enough credit. Aren't these things experts at going unnoticed.
Also, it doesn't have to be out in the open, it just has to slide down behind something that blocks the view and can practically go anywhere it wants.
QuoteAnd of course, facehuggers instinctively try to impregnate the nearest viable host. Hicks and then Newt and then Ripley. Fight or not itd crawl on the suit and bam.
Perhaps. I theorise that it gave more importance to the queen egg, given that it was the last egg and therefore needed to be protected. It could facehug anyone later.
Quote
Without bioscan of the ship?
Answered above.
QuoteWhy? First two movies showed us that the eggs dont open unless someone gets very close to it. In the first movies they lay there for years if not centuries. Kane had to tinker with it for it to open. They dont open spontaneously
Granted.
Perhaps with the other facehugger there, it knew there were viable hosts around and therefore hatched.
QuoteAgain, the second hugger is fanon, would not make sense for it not to attack immediately AND why would it be waiting two weeks?
Huh??
Sorry you've lost me.
I do admit though that a second facehugger is not surpported directly by the film and is purely my theory. A theory that happens to fit the facts.
QuoteMy answers to the questions raised would be the following:
1. Dont have any answer
2. The egg got into the position in question because of the suction from the open airlock. The suction pulled it and it got stuck on something
3. Dont have an answer
Well perhaps.
I've theorised otherwise.
I still don't understand why the hugger would move the egg.
If it's that smart, it should've left the egg in the landing gear well and hid nearby. While Ripley and co are searching for, and then find, the egg - bam, it attacks from a different direction.
Well I've explained why.
For survival because the egg being a "queen" egg wasn't ready to hatch yet. It needed a little longer to incubate.
How could it be born if it still needed time to incubate?
well, the egg has been laid, but not ready to hatch yet.
Quote from: stephen on Jan 19, 2012, 03:46:39 AM
"don't be where your enemy expects you to be".
The egg wasn't quite ready to hatch yet. The facehugger, perhaps sensing that this was a "queen" egg, needed to move the egg from it's last known location.
Or
Perhaps the actual queen told it too (in whatever language the aliens speak).
I cann't see facehuggers to be familiar with any stratagem of war campaign, as well as I don't reckon them to be suit for playing in the team, they are rather driven by the instict to impregnate someone asap, than to participate in ruses. Also, I have doubts about whether they can sense Queen at all to abide by her behest, i.e. huggers are totally useless for purposes of building hive and fighting enemy (other than rendering someone moveless), than why to complecate their physiology with unproductive extra organs?
At any rate the view of hugger, dragging the egg with its tail, would look facetious to me (good fill for parody, but I couldn't take it seriously for the film) ;)
Quote from: stephen on Jan 19, 2012, 04:17:02 AM
why would it be waiting two weeks?
Huh??
Sorry you've lost me.
[/quote]
The Sulaco incident happened two weeks after they left the LV 426 orbit
Quote
The Sulaco incident happened two weeks after they left the LV 426 orbit
Where exactly is this stated?
Quote from: aliennaire on Jan 19, 2012, 09:38:41 AM
I cann't see facehuggers to be familiar with any stratagem of war campaign, as well as I don't reckon them to be suit for playing in the team, they are rather driven by the instict to impregnate someone asap, than to participate in ruses.
They don't have to be strategists or even all that intelligent. They just have to have an instinctual drive.
Why can't they have an instinctually drive in them to move an egg?
Doesn't sound all that far fetched to me at all.
QuoteAlso, I have doubts about whether they can sense Queen at all to abide by her behest, i.e. huggers are totally useless for purposes of building hive and fighting enemy (other than rendering someone moveless), than why to complecate their physiology with unproductive extra organs?
Why? Their aliens. we have no idea at all as to their biological makeup or whatever.
QuoteAt any rate the view of hugger, dragging the egg with its tail, would look facetious to me (good fill for parody, but I couldn't take it seriously for the film) ;)
Good thing then that you don't have to see it.
QuoteWhere exactly is this stated?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably closer to 10-11 days.
3 weeks back to Gateway, but they were still a fair way from Earth when the fire occurred. Could've been earlier - no way to be sure.
Xenomorphs are not sentient, they are instinctual (though do have intelligence) and a facehugger's instinct is to impregnate something, they can exercise patience i think but they will still go after a host.
i just simply say the queen layed an egg but for how it got there one could just say that during the vacuum the egg was pulled away from where ever it was laid and it hit the ceiling.
The egg got aboard because of a plot inconsistency ;D
Bishop brought one aboard and hid it , not knowing it was an egg. Bishop never saw an egg up close so he wouldn't of known. I support that theory more than the queen laying it! She wasn't carrying one and she didn't give birth to one during the entire fight. But wait....Bishop didnt pick one up either so this leads us back to Plot inconsistency! :D
Imo the alien queen has laid her last "special" egg just before giving hunting Newt. Bishop is innocent. The site of deposition is not the cryogenic room, but a place in the Sulaco's hangar.
With Bishop and, partly, Newt watching her moves.
she would have laid it while she was in the dropship landing gear not while newt was hiding but then that leaves how the egg got onto the ceiling, which while just a wild guess it could be from the vacuum. but bad production problems is another possible reason
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Jan 21, 2012, 01:05:21 AM
Xenomorphs are not sentient, they are instinctual (though do have intelligence) and a facehugger's instinct is to impregnate something, they can exercise patience i think but they will still go after a host.
Why can't a facehuggers instinct also include protection of a "queen" egg?
Quotei just simply say the queen layed an egg but for how it got there one could just say that during the vacuum the egg was pulled away from where ever it was laid and it hit the ceiling.
Two problems:
Where did she lay the egg?
And going off that, where exactly and how exactly did the egg end up where it is? I understand you're talking about the vacuum and all that but exactly how does it end up where it is?
If these questions can be answered plausibly, then I'd go along with this as another possible theory (that being the egg laid has a super face hugger that can impregnate both a queen alien into Ripley AND and normal alien into the dog.)
Quote from: SM on Jan 20, 2012, 02:03:35 PM
QuoteWhere exactly is this stated?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably closer to 10-11 days.
3 weeks back to Gateway, but they were still a fair way from Earth when the fire occurred. Could've been earlier - no way to be sure.
Well I don't think there's anything to say what the timeframe is.
Therefore I'd argue that maybe a day. 2 at the very most.
QuoteTwo problems:
Where did she lay the egg?
And going off that, where exactly and how exactly did the egg end up where it is? I understand you're talking about the vacuum and all that but exactly how does it end up where it is?
Well the first answer is she didn't lay an egg! She climbed into the landing gear of the dropship and held on for dear life until she got to the sulaco! Even so when the ship has landed if she had layed an egg it would of fallen onto the floor considering she was hanging upside down!
Secondly the entire time she's fighting ripley and chasing newt not once does she make a sound like this *plop* I think even if she did Ripley would you know, notice!
So i'm still going with my bad plot answer ;D
Quote from: CSM101 on Jan 23, 2012, 12:39:12 AM
Well the first answer is she didn't lay an egg! She climbed into the landing gear of the dropship and held on for dear life until she got to the sulaco! Even so when the ship has landed if she had layed an egg it would of fallen onto the floor considering she was hanging upside down!
Secondly the entire time she's fighting ripley and chasing newt not once does she make a sound like this *plop* I think even if she did Ripley would you know, notice!
So i'm still going with my bad plot answer ;D
Well we all know that it's a bad plot and that it was a screw up.
But, call it a hobby, I like to answer plot holes. We're simply surmising how, with what we know from the films, it could have happened.
*sees a member commit suicide after trying to find answers* now look at what you lot have gone and done, that is the 68th member to do that in the last couple of hours. :laugh: don't worry, there is plenty more.
Well she could have still laid it and held it one of her arms, she has four remember and well she didn't have to hold on for dear life because the landing gear or whatever retracts into drop-ship, she would have been basically inside it.
Bishop put it there, or the queen did. Take your pick. I'd bet bishop more only because of the fact of how desprate he was at the end of Alien 3 for the queen chestburster, and how he was missing in some parts of the movie and the only one who controlled the dropship in the short amount of time in aliens ofc. Not to mention theres a part in aliens that bishop quoted burke keeping the specimens alive. So he was following burke and the companies orders. His only a robot after all he has to follow orders, Another thing is how weird and quick to get ripley to pull the plug on him in Alien 3 when he was hooked back up. He couldnt handle the truth of what he had done.
And thats the truth can i get a AMEN!
BISHOP
Mr. Burke have instructions that they were to be kept alive in stasis for return to the company labs. He was very specific.
That's what he said i believe.
Quote from: Private W Hudson on Jan 28, 2012, 12:22:47 AM
Bishop put it there, or the queen did. Take your pick. I'd bet bishop more only because of the fact of how desprate he was at the end of Alien 3 for the queen chestburster, and how he was missing in some parts of the movie and the only one who controlled the dropship in the short amount of time in aliens ofc. Not to mention theres a part in aliens that bishop quoted burke keeping the specimens alive. So he was following burke and the companies orders. His only a robot after all he has to follow orders, Another thing is how weird and quick to get ripley to pull the plug on him in Alien 3 when he was hooked back up. He couldnt handle the truth of what he had done.
And thats the truth can i get a AMEN!
BISHOP
Mr. Burke have instructions that they were to be kept alive in stasis for return to the company labs. He was very specific.
That's what he said i believe.
Yeah but Ripley must have stopped him or told otherwise as she trusted him by the end of the film. Well i still believe it was the queen.
Quote from: Valaquen on Jan 05, 2012, 08:57:20 PM
No, because there's still a msytery over how the egg got on board, whether Alien 3 shows us a literal or dream interpretation the mystery still stands. And of course, it's inherently unanswerable.
It had to be real. She was impregnated with a queen embryo from the hugger. It really did not have a dream like quality(to me). This subject will be going on forever lol
QuoteIt really did not have a dream like quality(to me).
Neither did the scene, when she hits a pipe thinking it was an Alien.
Quote from: Deathly_rYaN on Jan 29, 2012, 06:16:57 AM
Quote from: Valaquen on Jan 05, 2012, 08:57:20 PM
No, because there's still a msytery over how the egg got on board, whether Alien 3 shows us a literal or dream interpretation the mystery still stands. And of course, it's inherently unanswerable.
It had to be real. She was impregnated with a queen embryo from the hugger. It really did not have a dream like quality(to me). This subject will be going on forever lol
I think someone mentioned that dreamlike part was just the egg scene.
QuoteBISHOP
Mr. Burke have instructions that they were to be kept alive in stasis for return to the company labs. He was very specific.
That's what he said i believe.
How does this equate to "Bishop, just nip over to the AP Station and snag an egg for me. There's a good chap"?
Those specimens were freed by Burke and later killed.
Quote from: SM on Jan 30, 2012, 04:01:34 AM
QuoteBISHOP
Mr. Burke have instructions that they were to be kept alive in stasis for return to the company labs. He was very specific.
That's what he said i believe.
How does this equate to "Bishop, just nip over to the AP Station and snag an egg for me. There's a good chap"?
Those specimens were freed by Burke and later killed.
I think they are trying to say is that burke or the company ordered bishop to grab an egg, which i don't believe.
in my point, the queen did it, its the more likeliest explanation or at least the easiest.
Of course the Queen did it.
Bishop can't obey an order that would put a human at risk of harm, no matter who ordered him to.
that is right, he says he cannot harm a person or by inaction allow harm to come to a person or something like that. anyway, Alien 3 on wikipedia uses the queen theory and they try to deal mostly with facts and not speculation.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Jan 30, 2012, 07:44:06 PM
that is right, he says he cannot harm a person or by inaction allow harm to come to a person or something like that. anyway, Alien 3 on wikipedia uses the queen theory and they try to deal mostly with facts and not speculation.
Which facts exactly ?
The invisible queen who goes around the Sulaco laying invisible eggs ?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on Feb 01, 2012, 04:03:59 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Jan 30, 2012, 07:44:06 PM
that is right, he says he cannot harm a person or by inaction allow harm to come to a person or something like that. anyway, Alien 3 on wikipedia uses the queen theory and they try to deal mostly with facts and not speculation.
Which facts exactly ?
The invisible queen who goes around the Sulaco laying invisible eggs ?
I think you mean the very visible queen that was on the sulaco and likely did lay an egg.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 10:45:19 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on Feb 01, 2012, 04:03:59 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Jan 30, 2012, 07:44:06 PM
that is right, he says he cannot harm a person or by inaction allow harm to come to a person or something like that. anyway, Alien 3 on wikipedia uses the queen theory and they try to deal mostly with facts and not speculation.
Which facts exactly ?
The invisible queen who goes around the Sulaco laying invisible eggs ?
I think you mean the very visible queen that was on the sulaco and likely did lay an egg.
This is the queen
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh167%2Fdeezelboy%2FA3%2Fcap013.jpg&hash=d3226e74b32b4793d8d850e548c875c7823a1c17)
This is the egg
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh167%2Fdeezelboy%2FA3%2Fcap044.jpg&hash=562298cda68a1b1ddfaaf434964a424fafdd6323)
Obviously the SAME place
That is the part we are trying to figure out, its widely accepted that the queen laid the egg but what we are trying to find out is why its where it is.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on Feb 02, 2012, 02:10:50 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 10:45:19 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on Feb 01, 2012, 04:03:59 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Jan 30, 2012, 07:44:06 PM
that is right, he says he cannot harm a person or by inaction allow harm to come to a person or something like that. anyway, Alien 3 on wikipedia uses the queen theory and they try to deal mostly with facts and not speculation.
Which facts exactly ?
The invisible queen who goes around the Sulaco laying invisible eggs ?
I think you mean the very visible queen that was on the sulaco and likely did lay an egg.
This is the queen
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h167/deezelboy/A3/cap013.jpg
This is the egg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h167/deezelboy/A3/cap044.jpg
Obviously the SAME place
Ahh actually no it's not obviously the same place.
It is in fact obviously two different locations - which is the problem.
I believe Max used a considerable dose of sarcasm in that sentence.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 03, 2012, 12:31:47 AM
I believe Max used a considerable dose of sarcasm in that sentence.
I was just about to say that as well before noticing your post. :laugh:
anyway most accept its due to the queen, the only thing that puzzles me it the location of egg, in this or the other thread, i threw just a wild theory that the vacuum could have possibly pulled the egg from where it was and onto the ceiling but like i said, that is just a wild theory.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 03, 2012, 01:10:22 AM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 03, 2012, 12:31:47 AM
I believe Max used a considerable dose of sarcasm in that sentence.
I was just about to say that as well before noticing your post. :laugh:
anyway most accept its due to the queen, the only thing that puzzles me it the location of egg, in this or the other thread, i threw just a wild theory that the vacuum could have possibly pulled the egg from where it was and onto the ceiling but like i said, that is just a wild theory.
The location sure isnt in the docking bay/hangar anywhere. There are many pictures of the entire bay and theres nothing that would resemble that thing. So that leaves dropship which then again makes no sense since SURELY it wouldve been both checked visually AND bioscanned
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 03, 2012, 12:31:47 AM
I believe Max used a considerable dose of sarcasm in that sentence.
Ahh. My apologies to Max then. Rereading it, his post is dripping with sarcasm. Don't know why I didn't see it the first time.
Sorry Max!
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 03, 2012, 01:47:05 AM
The location sure isnt in the docking bay/hangar anywhere. There are many pictures of the entire bay and theres nothing that would resemble that thing. So that leaves dropship which then again makes no sense since SURELY it wouldve been both checked visually AND bioscanned
Well I don't think we've seen enough of the docking bay/hanger at all to be sure. I don't think it looks anything like being on the dropship.
Quote from: stephen on Feb 03, 2012, 05:33:06 AM
Well I don't think we've seen enough of the docking bay/hanger at all to be sure.
We did. There are many good and high resolution pictures available of the entire hangar as well as pics of the set. Some examples of
many(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_IYihBiTh-cM%2FTKyy6RHMfYI%2FAAAAAAAACDE%2FdTR9mT8mrLI%2Fs1600%2Fsulacointerior2.jpg&hash=c614db2a3f16cc99d3f47e2a8d9b6960242b260a)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_l4ybcqc14p1qa1o5zo1_500.jpg&hash=87aefe929558e79b6310b317348ad0e407622486)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_IYihBiTh-cM%2FTKyy3KC7GjI%2FAAAAAAAACC8%2FiK2a7cV-jzc%2Fs1600%2Fsulacoset2.jpg&hash=643ec8b6e458bf8137bcdca6f15ae671492b40e0)
The lights there are from the sides. Theres nothing that would have lighting from the top
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa277%2Flovegunner%2FAVP%2Funtitled-4.jpg&hash=365c48a8ba1365e7fb4357642516bfa59b35be5d)
It SLIGHTLY resembles the armory
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg43.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv132%2FHissing-Sid%2FAliens%2520Armoury%2Fweapons10.jpg&hash=dd023df5e3687f65cb8a76231bbb6cae3f9e3897)
But the Queen didnt go there
you got to realise as well that the crew from alien 3 might not have had access to the original set.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 01:03:20 AM
you got to realise as well that the crew from alien 3 might not have had access to the original set.
The Aliens crew didnt have access to Narcissus set either, yet they faithfully recreated it from photos and footage in the movie
Quote from: StrangeShape on Feb 04, 2012, 02:50:27 AM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 01:03:20 AM
you got to realise as well that the crew from alien 3 might not have had access to the original set.
The Aliens crew didnt have access to Narcissus set either, yet they faithfully recreated it from photos and footage in the movie
True but not all people go to great lengths to preserve continuity either. with the production hell of alien 3 i doubt anyone would have had time to bother remaking a perfect replica of the sulaco's interior.
They had time to make something that looked nothing like the interior of the Sulaco...
easier to build perhaps or it was a already made set that was simply redone.
The story goes that Fincher preferred the original hypersleep pod design.
Quote from: SM on Feb 04, 2012, 03:12:36 AM
The story goes that Fincher preferred the original hypersleep pod design.
You mean the ones from the first film?
I mean those.
I see, well that is another error then.
The director of A:R is the reasons we had brown aliens in that film, he wanted to give them a more insect look.
While i would always prefer a director to be in charge and do his/her work than the interfering studios, they need to keep to the continuity.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 03:39:00 AM
The director of A:R is the reasons we had brown aliens in that film, he wanted to give them a more insect look.
The Aliens were of that color because Jeunet has his color style, which is sepia/yellow.
Unless you have a source.
The dvd quadrilogy set, the making of alien rez mentions that someone on A:R probably the director ( i can't remember at the moment ) wanted to give the aliens a more insect look, so the xenomorphs were painted brown with a greenish tint, it more noticeable on the queen. Well in-universe we could just put this down to genetic crossing.
I don't remember any interview in the making of featurettes stating that the Aliens were given a brown color scheme because the director wanted them to be more insect like. I watched them plenty of times - not to mention a quote of such a statement would've been smashed upon my face already.
What was the name of the featurette you heard this in?
it might have been in the making of alien rez, check all areas. I'm sure i have heard somewhere that the colour scheme was for a more insect look.
Thought the shimmering look was from all the slime.
Just did a little digging and got this from wikipedia. " An adult queen was to reappear in Alien Resurrection. The original mechanical head previously used in Aliens was provided by Bob Burns. It was repainted with a blend of green and brown, giving it a shimmering, insect-like quality.[11] This color concept would be abandoned in Alien versus Predator in favour of the original black color scheme.[11]"
I couldn't remember where i saw it, so it was either in the quadrilogy, me or someone needs to double check that or it was another source and according to wiki it was from alien vs predator behind the scenes with the adi.
Just checked the Audio Commentary for Resurrection (which Wikipedia cites as a source), in the scenes in which the Queen appears, and Alec Gillis says that they repainted her with 'shining, interesting colors', unless I heard wrong.
yes they wanted a shimmering effect and they wanted to make them look more like an insect. if you look at beetles, their backs have a brown/black and green/blue colour to them depending on the light.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 04:09:28 PM
yes they wanted a shimmering effect and they wanted to make them look more like an insect.
Again, I've heard nothing about them wanting the Aliens 'to look more like an insect'. Alec Gillis said that they used 'shining and interesting colors', or something along the lines thereof. Again, no mention of insects.
The excerpt on Wikipedia could've easily been modified.
That, and all the Aliens of the series have had a color scheme that fluctuated depending on the light they were shot with.
That is true all aliens have had a different colour scheme but if you look at my previous posts, one of them mentions the insect thing, its what they said on alien vs predator, wiki just used alien vs predator as a source and to be fair to wikipedia, they do try to be as accurate as possible though they are a frequent target of vandalism.
Checked AvP: The Creature Effects of ADI, and there it is:
"When she appeared again in Alien Resurrection, a blend of pearlescent paints were used, incorporating brown and green tones into her overall appearance. This gave a shimmery bug-like quality to her surface. This time around, we chose to go back toward her original color and once again created a color scheme of rich blacks in the deeps and blues and silvers for highlights."
But it goes no further than that.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 04, 2012, 07:15:41 PM
Checked AvP: The Creature Effects of ADI, and there it is:
"When she appeared again in Alien Resurrection, a blend of pearlescent paints were used, incorporating brown and green tones into her overall appearance. This gave a shimmery bug-like quality to her surface. This time around, we chose to go back toward her original color and once again created a color scheme of rich blacks in the deeps and blues and silvers for highlights."
But it goes no further than that.
yes that is what i meant, when you look at a blue bottles or beetles their colours change in a different light or angle so they appear with a l blue or green tint to the brown or black body. the adult aliens were a brownish colour though and it is from that point on that xenomorphs walked mostly on all fours instead of being bipedal despite its origin.
In reality, the Resurrection Aliens did walk in a bipedal fashion - see the one walking over Elgyn's corpse. When they walked on all fours it was either in the duct when Vriess sees one or when one crawls in an escape pod. Nothing the Hadley Aliens haven't done.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 04, 2012, 07:31:35 PM
In reality, the Resurrection Aliens did walk in a bipedal fashion - see the one walking over Elgyn's corpse. When they walked on all fours it was either in the duct when Vriess sees one or when one crawls in an escape pod. Nothing the Hadley Aliens haven't done.
hmm i will rewatch it again soon, i haven't seen the films in awhile but i do know avp made them crawl on all fours in certain scenes (the game avp 2010 made them quadruped stance despite their human host origin) and they had a metallic black colour scheme. its also their feet that changes as well, they switch from plantigrade to digitigrade.
Yeah, in AvP they crawl and move around like the Alien3 Alien.
Their feet are digitigrade in Resurrection only.
Hi there,
I realize I'm about 5 years late to this discussion. But I looked through this thread and don't recall seeing a Henry about what I will call "colonist extraction theory". It goes as follows: you see Bishop performing a detailed dissection on the parasite in the colonists' lab. Wetland Yutani kept many things under raps when it came to their engagement with the derelict space craft on LV 426. In all likelihood here would have been a number of eggs or post-natal xenomorphs in their infancy on ice. Keeping in mind the colonists were there already for decades setting up he atmosphere processors (furthermore, we are not told when they engaged the ship where Kane was overtaken) so one could easily assume that aside from making the planet breathable, they were consumed with researching the xenomorphs' DNA structure (since they worked for the company) either for their own benefit or their own. It could be that if intent was in fact for the bio-weapons division...but due to their radio silence with the colony and the company hub, Burke was dispatched as a contingency plan to somehow get the animal specimens past WCC quarantine. Here comes the colonists extraction theory:
Under Burke's instruction or by his own internal, company-mandated directives, Bishop uncovered what the colonists had placed into cryogenic stasis or some kind of incubator and possibly had Farro and Spunkmeyer quickly bring it back to the Sulaco with a measure of subterfuge and plant it inconspicuously on the Sulace as a part of some company driven contingency plan for getting the species off the planet and onto a company ship (of course for this possible part of the scenario, it would depend on e elapsed time between the APC's initial landing on LV 426 and the marines' engagement with Newt and the rest of the aliens, as well as the radio transmissions between Apone/Hicks and Farro/Spunkmeyer-as it would be a broken up transmission from space). Another option is that Bishop used the "working transmitter from the APC" (if you'll recall Hudson's comment after Farro crashes that it, the transmitter for remote controlling the dropship, was on the APC) and remote controlled the other drop-ship while the marines did their thing, many hours likely went by, and did the whole thing by himself--having got the viable egg onto the Sulaco, perhaps delivering it to a company research team/or android that travelled with the marines to LV 426 for this very contingency plan. Or maybe he simply remote piloted the ship down to surface, went up to stash the egg, then returned to research the specimens in the colony labs. (Perhaps when Bishop says he can't by mission of action harm a human, this is just a cover up for all of his company programmed sub routines).
One must, in this case, have faith that the colonists had a sincere interest in he xenomorphs, though they were not warned about gem by Burke, who had knowledge they were there, and had first dibs on and monetary reward--perhaps it was this animosity that led to Burke's neglect to warn he colonists of the threat. At any rate, just consider this: how did Bishop get the face-hugger in the first place? This was quite early in the films action packed events. Bishop wasn't sent down with he other marines to engage but somehow got his hands on this parasite... How? No one has asked as far as I can tell, perhaps this s the key to unravel the whole mystery. Lets theorize that the colonists had a wide variety of specimens in their labs, somehow they got out of control and lead to their demise, as the xenomorphs are mostly uncontainable. Ergo, colonists extracted the eggs and specimens, Bishop reaped where they had sown as well as their benefits. Just a theory.
Thanks.
The only possible explanations for how the egg got there are:
1. An Alien wizard did it...
2. It was all a dream. This would also explain a few other inconsistencies, like the different colour lettering on the Sulaco, the different looking hypersleep chambers and the *cough*super-facehugger*cough*. Would also mean Alien 3 never actually happened, which is just fine with me... :)
3. Ripley inexplicably took leave of her senses and despite:
a) knowing how sneaky the alien is at stowing away
b) having seen the Queen Alien lay dozens of eggs on LV426
c) being responsible for the safety of three other people
and
d) having absolutely no reason to rush into hypersleep, considering the length of the journey back to Earth
failed to check the ship for any unpleasant surprises, when even a cursory scan would have probably been enough, considering the egg wasn't exactly well hidden. Let's face it, if you'd been through the things Ripley had in Alien and Aliens, you wouldn't be going to sleep until you'd checked every inch of that ship... :p
My own personal theory that I use as an explanation is not only did the queen get on the drop ship but a drone as well and the queen had time during the voyage back to the Sulaco to lay one last egg. After the queen got jettisoned out the airlock and Ripley and co are in hypersleep the drone moves the egg to the hypersleep area and inadvertently the drone dies in the electrical fire, I mean who says the queen can't lay one emergency egg without her sac, please correct me if I'm wrong and it is stated some where in the extended universe that she can't.
While Ripley was looking for Newt, Bishop was on a Easter Egg hunt. That'swhy Hicks was sedated. The fool tried to stop Bishop when his Bruke.app booted up. This also explains why Bishop wasn't waiting on the perfectly -at the time- sound platform.
Of course considering Bishop was just half a bot; how the hell the egg got up there is another conspiracy. :laugh:
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 16, 2016, 09:48:01 AM
While Ripley was looking for Newt, Bishop was on a Easter Egg hunt. That'swhy Hicks was sedated. The fool tried to stop Bishop when his Bruke.app booted up. This also explains why Bishop wasn't waiting on the perfectly -at the time- sound platform.
Of course considering Bishop was just half a bot; how the hell the egg got up there is another conspiracy. :laugh:
Bishop had Spider-Man finger upgrades which allowed him to scale the wall.