I know many of us are saying it goes against canon and continuity, but how? To me it seems reasonable that a juvenile queen has baby chestbursters/embryos/whatever inside of her and will eventually birth them asexually. As it matures, her body will eventually encase those embryos inside facehuggers and then encase the facehuggers in eggs.
Um.... where to start....
A. It shows onscreen something overly gory, terribly unnecessary to the film, the literal apex of disgusting things, and I could go on.
B. It f**ks up the precedents set in all other Alien films.
C. It's shot brutally bad.
D. It sucks.
QuoteWhy do people hate the Predalien embryo implantation into the pregnant women?
The question itself has the answer in it... ::) This reminds me of Doom! ;D ;D ;D
Well Omega just nailed it and there is not much to add but from very geeky point of view. How da f**k alien that came out from predator have reproductive system that clearly is related with earth-like for of pregnancy?
Well here I go.
Reason 1: If a young queen can reproduce like this, why the hell would it ever need to bother with the whole egg, facehugger thing anyway. Completely f**ks with everything we have learned about the alien life cycle.
Reason 2: The whole idea that it impregnates pregnant women is f**king mind numbingly idiotic? Why just pregnant women? Why cant it do it to any human? What happens if there are no pregnant women just conveniently in the vicinity? But wait there is, in a maternity ward, and oh look the Predalien has stumbled across this maternity ward. Brilliant.
Reason 3: Its a pathetic attempt to include some shocking gore, but it has the opposite effect. Theyve thrown it in there for the sake of it, but havnt really thought it through and to be honest it doesnt really make any sense. But hey its gory so just leave it in. Pillocks.
Another reason: it's apperently a trait "taken" from the Predator. What bullshit. You don't see human born Aliens humping everything the see.
Omega & Keg, I take my hat of to you both! Well said.
IMO, the whole scene was just for shock and gore, over-the-top, added nothing to the movie, and it is just plain stupid. The scene itself just left a bad taste in my mouth.
Just another one of Salerno's inept ideas that actually got through. Well, he really can't take the full blame, it was a Fox executive who told him to write it. This idea/concept of belly bursters was taken from one of the aborted Alien 3 scripts I believe. Can't remember which one though.
It was from an Alien Comic.
Labyrinth, if I'm not wrong.
Its the execution that makes it even worse though. So the Predalien stumbles across the pregnant woman in the diner and lays its embryos inside her. That i suppose isnt too far fetched. But to then do the same to an entire maternity ward was the biggest WTF moment ive ever seen. Ive said it before in other topics where this has come up. Did the Predalien suddenly realise that pregnant women made the best hosts and so it made its way to the hospital and then found the maternity ward? Think about that for a moment and you will realise how f**king stupid that is. so it understands what a hospital is does it? it understands that there will be a maternity ward full of heavily pregnant women, ripe for the face f**king?
OH DEAR!
How this was allowed to go ahead and how nobody picked up on how nonsensical that whole subplot was is beyond me. even putting aside established life cycles and canon it still makes no sense whatsoever. some idiot obviously came up with the idea, thought it sounded cool, gory and unexpectedly shocking, and they never bothered to think it through to see if it would actually work. Yeah the audience will dig that........................erm no!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_FmADVggCk
It's dreadful, disgusting and disturbing. I seem to find rape a close word for it. Not to mention, it goes against the normal productive cycle of aliens.
We don't know for sure that egg-barfing only works on pregnant women, there could have been some offscreen barfing. The predalien in the Predalien Builder game at avp-r.com launches facehuggers from its mouth. I still don't see how it disregards the alien life-cycle. ???
Essentially, the only things i consider canon from AVPR:
- Wolf Predator
- Predator homeworld
- Gov drops bomb on town
- Wolf & Predalien both die
- Plasma caster given to Miss Yunti
Anything and everything else, nope.
I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call the games canon. To be honest, I disregard anything that isn't the movie to be canon. Just my view.
Quote from: predxeno on May 25, 2010, 08:33:18 PM
We don't know for sure that egg-barging only works on pregnant women, there could have been some offscreen barfing. The predalien in the Predalien Builder game at avp-r.com launches facehuggers from its mouth. I still don't see how it disregards the alien life-cycle. ???
Yeah we dont know that. Egg barfing may work on others too. so then why the f**k does it do it to a pregnant lady in a cafe and then somehow, stumble across a maternity ward full of preggars women. That is the big of a suspension of disbelief and too big a coincidence for me to swallow. So either way its f**king retarded.
Why?
Quoteit goes against canon and continuity
And it's pointless. And cheap. And nasty. In every respect.
If - as has been mooted - the PredAlien (may its name be forever cursed) is really a Queen for reelz - she already had two evil minions from the hunter and his son. First thing it should've done was set up a hive to get ready to lay eggs, while the two Aliens bring hosts. If the egg barfing shit had occurred at the start of the film in order to get a bunch of Aliens quickly to set up a hive, it might have had a shred of logic.
As it stands - it has none. No least of all how shit the size of golf balls can get into a womb without tearing the mothers insides to pieces and killing her long before any Aliens are ready to pop.
Apparently, someone high up thought the Alien's lifecycle was not an obvious enough perversion of human pregnancy.
It's not so much the use of a pregnant woman as Alien fodder; every mistake was in execution. From the egg-barfing to the Predalien's own design, man-in-a-suit vibe and silly behaviour, that scene reeked of artificial horror.
You could make that scene hold so much more impact, although at that stage of production I guess it was already too late.
A redesigned, lithe, creepy Predalien hangs over the pregnant woman, observing her. The lights are flickering on and off as emergency power fails, but the Alien is clever enough to have chosen an especially enshrouded corner to lurk in, its long tail imitating hospital equipment in the shadows. But the woman caught a glimpse. She knows something's in the room with her. And she's in labour.
Her screaming and weeping carries down the desolate, abandoned hallways like the echo of a ghost until, finally, her child is born. The lights flicker and lightning strikes outside, and the Alien looms above her, holding her child. Curious. An experimental application of finger pressure crushes the child, blood and innards escaping from its ruined corpse wherever they can. The Alien, appearing a little disappointed if anything, moves back into its dark place and begins observing the woman again.
The scene was disgusting.
Are we also supposed to assume the PredAlien killed all the babies in the nursery as well off camera? And if not, surly they would be wiped out in the nuclear explosion.
Damn, that movie is such a low point for both franchises. :'(
Quote from: First Blood on May 26, 2010, 01:04:55 AM
The scene was disgusting.
Are we also supposed to assume the PredAlien killed all the babies in the nursery as well off camera? And if not, surly they would be wiped out in the nuclear explosion.
Damn, that movie is such a low point for both franchises. :'(
I thought the murders of the children added a sense of realism to the storyline. Many movies try to distance themselves from the murders of children and pregnant women. This is perhaps the most realistic film in the whole franchise. Many humans don't act rationally. There could be many reasons why the Predalien only started egg-barfing later into the movie. She might not have been fully developed to reproduce yet, similar to how a human needs to go through puberty before having children. Anyways, since many of us can see this method as following or not following continuity, let's move on to a different subject. Does anyone think we'll be seeing references to this method in future movies, games, comics, etc.? What are our opinions of this?
QuoteA redesigned, lithe, creepy Predalien hangs over the pregnant woman, observing her. The lights are flickering on and off as emergency power fails, but the Alien is clever enough to have chosen an especially enshrouded corner to lurk in, its long tail imitating hospital equipment in the shadows. But the woman caught a glimpse. She knows something's in the room with her. And she's in labour.
Has potential.
QuoteHer screaming and weeping carries down the desolate, abandoned hallways like the echo of a ghost until, finally, her child is born. The lights flicker and lightning strikes outside, and the Alien looms above her, holding her child. Curious. An experimental application of finger pressure crushes the child, blood and innards escaping from its ruined corpse wherever they can.
This however, is just revolting.
Speaking of which...
Quotei thought the murders of the children added a sense of realism to the storyline. Many movies try to distance themselves from the murders of children and pregnant women. This is perhaps the most realistic film in the whole franchise.
It's not realism to show such things - it simply creates disgust. In Aliens dozens of womean and children died. Cameron didn't even have any dead children as hosts. We don't need to see it happen to appreciate it.
QuoteDoes anyone think we'll be seeing references to this method in future movies, games, comics, etc.? What are our opinions of this?
f**k... I hope not. Ill conceived shit like this shouldn't even be excused let alone reinforced.
Quote from: predxeno on May 26, 2010, 01:08:02 AM
Does anyone think we'll be seeing references to this method in future movies, games, comics, etc.? What are our opinions of this?
f**k no.
Let this shit be buried with its equally shit movie and hopefully someone down the line will reboot the AVP movie franchise. Can't see why anyone in their right mind, be it new movies, comics or novels would want to associate a future AVP project with AVPR.
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 26, 2010, 12:57:56 AM
Her screaming and weeping carries down the desolate, abandoned hallways like the echo of a ghost until, finally, her child is born. The lights flicker and lightning strikes outside, and the Alien looms above her, holding her child. Curious. An experimental application of finger pressure crushes the child, blood and innards escaping from its ruined corpse wherever they can. The Alien, appearing a little disappointed if anything, moves back into its dark place and begins observing the woman again.
This is why filmmakers shouldn't listen to fans.
We come up with retarded shit like this. Repeatedly.
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 26, 2010, 12:57:56 AM
holding her child. Curious. An experimental application of finger pressure crushes the child, blood and innards escaping from its ruined corpse wherever they can. The Alien, appearing a little disappointed if anything, moves back into its dark place and begins observing the woman again.
I'd agree that the description had potential until you had to eggmorph into a Strause and show it over the top,effectively turning it into unsubtle disgust.
Quote from: SiL on May 26, 2010, 05:55:11 AM
This is why filmmakers shouldn't listen to fans.
We come up with retarded shit like this. Repeatedly.
I dunno, I thought Labyrinth's take on Alien curiosity was really good.
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 26, 2010, 06:42:59 AM
Quote from: SiL on May 26, 2010, 05:55:11 AM
This is why filmmakers shouldn't listen to fans.
We come up with retarded shit like this. Repeatedly.
I dunno, I thought Labyrinth's take on Alien curiosity was really good.
I'm pretty sure there was a panel of an Alien holding dead undeveloped bursters.
But never turning a human baby into a gore bomb.
Yeah. Dude. Srsly...
Who is going to even film that, let alone want to watch it? Especially considering the relative restraint of the original films.
Baby or no, Parker got the same treatment.
But the point is less holding up a baby and more observing human pregnancy and the human lifecycle. If you don't want a crushed kid, then that's fine 'cause it's completely beside the point.
Quoterelative restraint
Tell that to Kane. And pre-edited scene Parker. And Lambert's sound effects.
Kane's scene was a lot less gory than it could've been.
Ditto Parker (who wasn't squeezed to death like your baby).
And Lambert doesn't even enter into the equation cos it was all off screen.
That's what I mean by "restraint". Whatever it was doing to Parker is unknown till it bites him in the bonce because it's all done in close up on his face.
The Alien observing has merit - especially posing as some medical equipment a la hanging in the chains before it nailed Brett. The rest is just gore porn. A baby crying off screen - that suddenly stops crying off screen would do - if there was a need to slaughter new born children.
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 26, 2010, 06:42:59 AM
I dunno, I thought Labyrinth's take on Alien curiosity was really good.
Yes, it was.
But what you just posted is very, very far away from that.
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 26, 2010, 06:55:24 AM
Baby or no, Parker got the same treatment.
Blood and guts didn't shoot from every hole.
So no.
QuoteIf you don't want a crushed kid, then that's fine 'cause it's completely beside the point.
You made it part of the point.
Which is the same reason people hate AvPR.
Quote from: SM on May 26, 2010, 07:09:15 AM
Kane's scene was a lot less gory than it could've been.
Ditto Parker (who wasn't squeezed to death like your baby).
And Lambert doesn't even enter into the equation cos it was all off screen.
The Alien observing has merit - especially posing as some medical equipment a la hanging in the chains before it nailed Brett. The rest is just gore porn.
Agreed. i liked the idea of it hiding and not being seen while it observes, but the rest was just as bad as what we got in the final film, if not worse.
for me the biggest reason why the maternity ward scene doesnt work is that it flat out makes no sense on a couple of levels. one is why would an alien creature only be able to use pregnant women as hosts? It doesnt make sense. And for those that say it may have been able to do it to others then why did it go and seek out pregnant women after it came across the one in the cafe? and thats the second reason why it makes no sense. its idiotic to believe that a creature that can only reproduce using pregnant women, just happens to stumble across a maternity ward. far too convienient.
All this isnt even taking into account the unneccessary and childish attempt at shocking the audience or the complete disregard of canon and established facts about the creatures in 7 previous films.
anybody who doesnt mind the predalien and/or its reproductive method is probably a teenager who has seen the AVP movies first and doesnt have the appreciation for the series that others do. if theres blood and gore, plenty of monsters and some "cool" deaths, these morons are happy, and unfortunately it was these people that AVPR was aimed at.
QuoteBlood and guts didn't shoot from every hole.
So no.
Perhaps this is a part of the misinterpretation. The kid was never meant to spurt, just crumple and bleed.
QuoteYou made it part of the point.
Rescinded, if that pleases you.
QuoteKane's scene was a lot less gory than it could've been.
Doesn't really say much. Just because Kane's death scene could've been gorier doesn't mean it was restrained. Slamming down twelve shots of vodka isn't restrained if you know you can go to sixteen. It's still irresponsible and likely to end in stupidity.
QuoteThat's what I mean by "restraint". Whatever it was doing to Parker is unknown till it bites him in the bonce because it's all done in close up on his face.
If memory serves, he was beginning to just
bleed from what we could see. Given the Alien's posture, grip and strength, it's pretty safe to assume he was being squeezed to death, as per a restrained version of what was originally going to happen.
(But that doesn't count, 'cause Riddles wanted the unrestrained version. S'just that the studio put its foot down hard).
Alien has subtlety, but that's different from restraint. It did what was effective, everyone be damned (mostly).
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 26, 2010, 07:28:43 AM
Perhaps this is a part of the misinterpretation. The kid was never meant to spurt, just crumple and bleed.
That's just as bad.
And any way you cut it, doing that to a
newborn baby is infinitely worse than, and wholly incomparable to, doing it to a grown adult.
QuoteDoesn't really say much.
Says plenty.
They
could've gone for broke. They chose not to. Ergo it was restrained.
QuoteIf memory serves, he was beginning to just bleed from what we could see.
He is bleeding from his mouth.
It's entirely possible that was the tail to his gut, however.
Quote(But that doesn't count, 'cause Riddles wanted the unrestrained version. S'just that the studio put its foot down hard).
And the movie was all the better for it.
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 26, 2010, 12:57:56 AM
Apparently, someone high up thought the Alien's lifecycle was not an obvious enough perversion of human pregnancy.
It's not so much the use of a pregnant woman as Alien fodder; every mistake was in execution. From the egg-barfing to the Predalien's own design, man-in-a-suit vibe and silly behaviour, that scene reeked of artificial horror.
You could make that scene hold so much more impact, although at that stage of production I guess it was already too late.
A redesigned, lithe, creepy Predalien hangs over the pregnant woman, observing her. The lights are flickering on and off as emergency power fails, but the Alien is clever enough to have chosen an especially enshrouded corner to lurk in, its long tail imitating hospital equipment in the shadows. But the woman caught a glimpse. She knows something's in the room with her. And she's in labour.
Her screaming and weeping carries down the desolate, abandoned hallways like the echo of a ghost until, finally, her child is born. The lights flicker and lightning strikes outside, and the Alien looms above her, holding her child. Curious. An experimental application of finger pressure crushes the child, blood and innards escaping from its ruined corpse wherever they can. The Alien, appearing a little disappointed if anything, moves back into its dark place and begins observing the woman again.
Serious. Dead serious, you've got problems. This isn't a horror film. As SM stated, in Aliens we KNEW children and women died but we didn't need to see them. True horror is what the imagination does with a horrific idea. This scene was just for a (failed) shock factor.
In regards to Chet's tail disguising itself like hospital equipment, have you ever been to a hospital? What f**king piece of equipment does an dark-colored, 4-5 ft, skeletal tail resemble? I have to tell you, I've seen my share of hospitals and I have yet to come across anything that resembles such.
@MadassAlex
That's even worse than what we got in the movie.
The idea of having a prego essentially strapped to a bed while something murderous watches on, is good horror. Her screaming in fear and being completely helpless to whats about to happen would make an intense scene (if you gave a toss about the character in question).
Forget about killing babies, period. There's horror and then there's disgust.
I think we get that MadassAlex has proved he should never suggest anything for anything ever again.
Let's ... move on.
The impregnation was like Omega already said over the top, had too gory consquences and what I really hate about it, is that you can tell that it's the fanboy-phantasy of the Strause Brothers come true in a very very sick, perverse and disgusting way.
It is part of the B-Movie character of the film and it ruined the character of the Alien.
The Alien always was a very "erotic" being in an abstract way. Giger deliberately painted it in a very controversial way. Yet the sexuality that was behind the creature was very very subtle and served the purpose of giving the people the creepy unknown.
The way the Predalien reproduces it's kind destroys this all because it's so unasthetic and so direct, nothing artistic about it like in Giger's vision...
Quote from: predxeno on May 26, 2010, 01:08:02 AM
This is perhaps the most realistic film in the whole franchise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU
A failed idea.
Quote from: Keg on May 26, 2010, 07:19:38 AM
for me the biggest reason why the maternity ward scene doesnt work is that it flat out makes no sense on a couple of levels. one is why would an alien creature only be able to use pregnant women as hosts? It doesnt make sense. And for those that say it may have been able to do it to others then why did it go and seek out pregnant women after it came across the one in the cafe? and thats the second reason why it makes no sense. its idiotic to believe that a creature that can only reproduce using pregnant women, just happens to stumble across a maternity ward. far too convienient.
All this isnt even taking into account the unneccessary and childish attempt at shocking the audience or the complete disregard of canon and established facts about the creatures in 7 previous films.
anybody who doesnt mind the predalien and/or its reproductive method is probably a teenager who has seen the AVP movies first and doesnt have the appreciation for the series that others do. if theres blood and gore, plenty of monsters and some "cool" deaths, these morons are happy, and unfortunately it was these people that AVPR was aimed at.
I find it interesting that everyone automatically assumed Carrie, women in cafe, was pregnant. We have no real evidence that indicates she was pregnant at all or that the Predalien didn't impregnate other nonpregnant people offscreen. I've been counting aliens and I am pretty sure that if the Predalien only impregnated Carrie, then there were way too many aliens before the Predalien even arrived at the maternity ward. I liked the movie and I appreciated the scene, I'm not some teenager, I'm 19 going on 20 in a couple of months. I guess I just like a lot of action. Though the storyline may not be that great, movies like Predator 2 and AVPR have great rewatching value when you just want to skip to the action. Movies like Alien and Predator build more on suspense and storyline than the actual action. I guess each movie has its own unique purpose. I know a lot of you will disaprove, but I found Madassalex's story to be interesting and an intriguing concept/alternate scene of the maternity ward scene in AVPR.
Quote from: predxeno on May 26, 2010, 02:07:56 PM
I find it interesting that everyone automatically assumed Carrie, women in cafe, was pregnant.
Maybe because she had a slightly
round belly... :P
Settle down gentlemen, I had a pretty terrible idea and I've rescinded it since.
Firmly put in my place.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on May 26, 2010, 02:12:15 PM
Quote from: predxeno on May 26, 2010, 02:07:56 PM
I find it interesting that everyone automatically assumed Carrie, women in cafe, was pregnant.
Maybe because she had a slightly round belly... :P
And because, even though it was deleted, she had baby bursters coming out.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on May 26, 2010, 02:12:15 PM
Quote from: predxeno on May 26, 2010, 02:07:56 PM
I find it interesting that everyone automatically assumed Carrie, women in cafe, was pregnant.
Maybe because she had a slightly round belly... :P
Exactly. Theres a scene where she specifically rubs both her hands on her very large and heavily pregnant belly. watch it again. the woman in the cafe is most definately pregnant.
I looked at Carrie again. If you are looking for her to be pregnant, yeah, I can sort of see a roundness to her belly. I can't be completely sure, though. Seriously, has anyone counted the aliens? After the sewer incident there were only three aliens; two human aliens and one Predalien. One human alien went with the Predalien into the cafe where the cook/guy was killed and Carrie impregnated. The other one went to the powerplant. Does anyone know whether Wolf killed the alien at the Powerplant? While the fight at the powerplant was commencing, an alien (possibly the one from the cafe) went into the pool and killed two bullies. However, there is also an alien attacking Molly, Kelly, and the dad afterwards. Is that the alien from the powerplant? If not, where did it come from? This may indicate that either there were more pregnant women around or the egg-barfing works on nonpregnant hosts as well.
Quote from: predxeno on May 26, 2010, 05:52:46 PM
I looked at Carrie again. If you are looking for her to be pregnant, yeah, I can sort of see a roundness to her belly. I can't be completely sure, though.
Get your eyes checked if you cant be completely sure. Shes 100% heavily pregnant. The point is even rammed home when she cradles her belly with her hands.
Quote from: predxeno on May 26, 2010, 05:52:46 PM
This may indicate that either there were more pregnant women around or the egg-barfing works on nonpregnant hosts as well.
Where are you getting this shit from? Puzzled much?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthemindperspective.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F07%2Fpuzzled.jpg&hash=4b3a8358ec5073af41669d5fe095554196a0c4b4)
I'm using logic. I counted the aliens and there's a sort of discrepancy. I looked closer at the powerplant scene and they don't show you the death of the alien so it is assumed that it escaped Wolf. Three aliens came out of Carrie, which I want to note now that Darcy said that Carrie's stomach was gone. This suggests that the embryos were placed in her stomach and not her womb. However, Darcy is merely as frightened civilian and witness testimony can be very inaccurate. Wolf killed the alien at the pool so that leaves the powerplant alien and the Carrie's three children. The Wolf Predator onscreen kills three drones at the store, we don't know what happened to the fourth, though. All in all, before the maternity ward scene, there were four alien max running rampant throughout the city. It's not very believeable that four aliens and a predalien were able to control a city of population 5476 (according to the trailer). It has always been hinted throughout the movie that there were a large amount of alien that were doing all the destruction. I know the capabilities of the alien and all the damage that a lone alien can do, but four drones and one predalien mastering this city by themselves doesn't seem very probable.
There's nothing saying it only works on pregnant ladies besides the Bros' commentary, and that thing is f**king stupid.
"There's more room in a pregnant woman!"
No there isn't you dumbasses, it's taken up by a friggin' baby.
Dumb c**ts...
QuoteIt's not very believeable that four aliens and a predalien were able to control a city of population 5476 (according to the trailer).
Why not?
You have a PredAlien (may its name be forever cursed) and two normal adults. If the PredAlien (may it name be forever cursed) is - is some seem to indicate - a Queen; why isn't it setting up shop and laying eggs like Queens are supposed to do? Queens are supposed to be full size and laying after about 3 days. Gunnison seems to have lits of places to hide. Once the Queen's producing the two Aliens go out and get hosts. You could have dozens of Aliens in a matter of days. And their numbers will continue to swell as the human numbers dwindle.
Of course the chance to show a large population being taken a la Hadley, which a lot of fans have been crying out to see, was utterly wasted. Quel surprise.
Predalien was a junior queen, not quite fully molted/grown.
But for something that is supposed to go from one foot long to what eighteen feet tall? - did it ever change size from the time it was on the Predator ship till the bomb gets dropped?
I really don't see anything in the film that tells us it was in any way a Queen.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on May 25, 2010, 05:44:08 PM
Um.... where to start....
A. It shows onscreen something overly gory, terribly unnecessary to the film, the literal apex of disgusting things, and I could go on.
B. It f**ks up the precedents set in all other Alien films.
C. It's shot brutally bad.
D. It sucks.
QuoteWhy do people hate the Predalien embryo implantation into the pregnant women?
The question itself has the answer in it... ::) This reminds me of Doom! ;D ;D ;D
I guess........overly gory tho? Thats kinda puss for a fan of these two franchises. That's not the nastiest scene i can recall. More like when they introduce the newborn in "Ressurection".
What was gory about that?
Unless you mean when it bit the top of Gediman's head off. Which is only very briefly on screen.
Quote from: Keg on May 25, 2010, 06:02:01 PM
Well here I go.
Reason 1: If a young queen can reproduce like this, why the hell would it ever need to bother with the whole egg, facehugger thing anyway. Completely f**ks with everything we have learned about the alien life cycle.
Reason 2: The whole idea that it impregnates pregnant women is f**king mind numbingly idiotic? Why just pregnant women? Why cant it do it to any human? What happens if there are no pregnant women just conveniently in the vicinity? But wait there is, in a maternity ward, and oh look the Predalien has stumbled across this maternity ward. Brilliant.
Reason 3: Its a pathetic attempt to include some shocking gore, but it has the opposite effect. Theyve thrown it in there for the sake of it, but havnt really thought it through and to be honest it doesnt really make any sense. But hey its gory so just leave it in. Pillocks.
A pregnant human offers more sustanence to the embryo, idk, use ur f**kin imagination dwebe boy, wut kinda geeks r u guys anyway? U guys need to be more open to new stuff. Or is everyone here like 35 and older. That shit was disgustingly awesome and shocking. It's like when u see the chestburster in "Alien" for the first time, except it wasn't AS awesome as that.
Quote from: SiL on May 26, 2010, 05:55:11 AM
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 26, 2010, 12:57:56 AM
Her screaming and weeping carries down the desolate, abandoned hallways like the echo of a ghost until, finally, her child is born. The lights flicker and lightning strikes outside, and the Alien looms above her, holding her child. Curious. An experimental application of finger pressure crushes the child, blood and innards escaping from its ruined corpse wherever they can. The Alien, appearing a little disappointed if anything, moves back into its dark place and begins observing the woman again.
This is why filmmakers shouldn't listen to fans.
We come up with retarded shit like this. Repeatedly.
I can't help but wonder, but mostly everytime i've seen u comment from the past, up until just now, it's some negative shit. U need a hug bro. I never ever see u offer ur version of a change of scene or maybe how u woulda done somethin different. I'm callin u out Silvester! Gimmie somethin other than negative rant's, how bout some creative thinking or sumthin. Wut would the Sil "Alien", or "Predator", or "AvP" plotline be all about. Curious........
Sil's AvP wouldn't exist. ;D
Quote from: SM on May 27, 2010, 01:15:02 AM
What was gory about that?
Unless you mean when it bit the top of Gediman's head off. Which is only very briefly screen.
Nah, i meant that introducing the newborn was to me WAY worse than anything they did in the "AvP" movies.
----> There's the door..
Quote from: Puks on May 27, 2010, 01:32:05 AM
Sil's AvP wouldn't exist. ;D
Puks, get that big titty girl photo off of there, it's distractin me from science fiction dammit!
QuoteI can't help but wonder, but mostly everytime i've seen u comment from the past, up until just now, it's some negative shit.
QuoteI never ever see u offer ur version of a change of scene or maybe how u woulda done somethin different.
Don't read much, eh?
QuoteA pregnant human offers more sustanence to the embryo, idk, use ur f**kin imagination dwebe boy, wut kinda geeks r u guys anyway?
Don't burn yourself on that irony.
Quote from: Puks on May 27, 2010, 01:33:27 AM
----> There's the door..
Oh please, u didn't think everyone was gonna jump on the same d*ck and be a hater against the "AvP" franchises. And no, i'm not just doin it for jollies. I genuinely like both movies. They coulda been better in some area's, but i definatly don't hate them, nor do i subconsciously remove them from continuity to make myself sleep better at night.
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on May 27, 2010, 01:35:47 AM
Quote from: Puks on May 27, 2010, 01:32:05 AM
Sil's AvP wouldn't exist. ;D
Puks, get that big titty girl photo off of there, it's distractin me from science fiction dammit!
Mission accomplished.
Quote from: SM on May 27, 2010, 01:38:02 AM
QuoteI can't help but wonder, but mostly everytime i've seen u comment from the past, up until just now, it's some negative shit.
QuoteI never ever see u offer ur version of a change of scene or maybe how u woulda done somethin different.
Don't read much, eh?
QuoteA pregnant human offers more sustanence to the embryo, idk, use ur f**kin imagination dwebe boy, wut kinda geeks r u guys anyway?
Don't burn yourself on that irony.
Yeah, ok smart ass, i was away for awhile between my last argumentative discussions with the likes of you SM and ur lackey Sil, or is it the other way around? How long the two of you been co-signin on each other's shit? By the way, "Predators" is gonna blow the "Alien" prequel out of the water!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fchzhappychairishappy.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F05%2F129189464608387765.jpg&hash=8335321ab827f31bd9b6eae73f42621a410aefd2)
Disapproving kayak disapproves of troll.
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on May 27, 2010, 01:26:59 AM
I never ever see u offer ur version of a change of scene or maybe how u woulda done somethin different.
Not
my fault you can't be bothered reading my posts.
QuoteGimmie somethin other than negative rant's, how bout some creative thinking or sumthin. Wut would the Sil "Alien", or "Predator", or "AvP" plotline be all about. Curious........
I'm up to page 83 of the first draft of an AvP script that I started Saturday. It involves Predators hunting Aliens in a decommissioned mining colony.
Quote from: SiL on May 27, 2010, 05:23:31 AM
I'm up to page 83 of the first draft of an AvP script that I started Saturday. It involves Predators hunting Aliens in a decommissioned mining colony.
Is it one of those funny ones like you wrote before? :D
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on May 27, 2010, 01:40:48 AM
Quote from: Puks on May 27, 2010, 01:33:27 AM
----> There's the door..
Oh please, u didn't think everyone was gonna jump on the same d*ck and be a hater against the "AvP" franchises. And no, i'm not just doin it for jollies. I genuinely like both movies. They coulda been better in some area's, but i definatly don't hate them, nor do i subconsciously remove them from continuity to make myself sleep better at night.
u wanna fight boi
i take you down
Quote from: Private Hudson on May 27, 2010, 05:44:26 AM
Is it one of those funny ones like you wrote before? :D
I don't do 83-page pisstakes :P
Wait... the others were piss-takes?
just giving a quick spray to keep em at bay.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.city-data.com%2Fforum%2Fattachments%2Fnew-york-city%2F46872d1250060649-new-york-city-best-city-world-258troll_spray.jpg&hash=01841fe3914ec47016af219bc9d2573a28ec49b2)
Haha been at work and when i came back ive just witnessed the awesomely idiotic last few pages. Wolf Sazen I salute you, you utter wazzock.
Quote from: SM on May 27, 2010, 06:40:36 AM
Wait... the others were piss-takes?
Yes.
No way would Sean Pertwee be hurt. Ever.
Quote from: SiL on May 27, 2010, 05:23:31 AM
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on May 27, 2010, 01:26:59 AM
I never ever see u offer ur version of a change of scene or maybe how u woulda done somethin different.
Not my fault you can't be bothered reading my posts.
QuoteGimmie somethin other than negative rant's, how bout some creative thinking or sumthin. Wut would the Sil "Alien", or "Predator", or "AvP" plotline be all about. Curious........
I'm up to page 83 of the first draft of an AvP script that I started Saturday. It involves Predators hunting Aliens in a decommissioned mining colony.
Okay then, i'm interested..........except, no space marines???
Quote from: XenoVC on May 27, 2010, 05:54:54 AM
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on May 27, 2010, 01:40:48 AM
Quote from: Puks on May 27, 2010, 01:33:27 AM
----> There's the door..
Oh please, u didn't think everyone was gonna jump on the same d*ck and be a hater against the "AvP" franchises. And no, i'm not just doin it for jollies. I genuinely like both movies. They coulda been better in some area's, but i definatly don't hate them, nor do i subconsciously remove them from continuity to make myself sleep better at night.
Lol, yeah, i do enjoy a good heated romp every now and again. Bring it on Xeno! Better yet, anybody that wants to take my head can do so, every night on "AvP", xbox live. I go by Rusty Shanx, and i play every game mode except "mixed species deathmatch", so come and get it boyz.
u wanna fight boi
i take you down
Quote from: Keg on May 27, 2010, 06:58:30 AM
just giving a quick spray to keep em at bay.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/new-york-city/46872d1250060649-new-york-city-best-city-world-258troll_spray.jpg
Haha been at work and when i came back ive just witnessed the awesomely idiotic last few pages. Wolf Sazen I salute you, you utter wazzock.
Yeah, dare to be different right? Syke, wutever buttface, wutz a "troll", and wutz a "wazzock"?
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on May 27, 2010, 09:33:01 AM
Okay then, i'm interested..........except, no space marines???
Soldiers under contract to perform security duties while the place is disassembled.
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on May 27, 2010, 09:42:37 AM
Yeah, dare to be different right? Syke, wutever buttface, wutz a "troll", and wutz a "wazzock"?
^^^^^^
My point from the "What made you an AvP Galaxy member" thread proven.
Quote from: SiL on May 27, 2010, 05:23:31 AM
I'm up to page 83 of the first draft of an AvP script that I started Saturday. It involves Predators hunting Aliens in a decommissioned mining colony.
When you're all well and finished you're gonna share right?
Oh, my, no.
How many Predators and Aliens you got in this thing?
I'm rollin' two and seven deep up in this bitch.
Quote from: SiL on May 27, 2010, 10:03:33 AM
Quote from: Wolf Sazen on May 27, 2010, 09:33:01 AM
Okay then, i'm interested..........except, no space marines???
Soldiers under contract to perform security duties while the place is disassembled.
I can dig it so far
I notice that a lot of us think that it's "disgusting" for chestbursters to eat a human baby while it's in the womb or for aliens to kill human children, but those same people don't find it disturbing to eat fertilized chicken eggs or even veal (baby cow).
How do you know they don't? Lots of people don't approve of veal and LOTS of people don't eat eggs.
Unless the chick is actually partially developed, it's not really the same. At all.
And yeah, lots of people don't like veal.
Ok, my bad. I should say they may feel it's ok to eat veal, etc. And, yeah, I guess it may have been a little too presumptious for me to post that. It just infuriates me to think that it's ok for us to take advantage of other species over the presumption that we are superior to them, but it's not ok for species more superior to us to take advantage of humans. I go for the "live and let live" routine.
Of course we should put ourselves above other animals. It's our species.
There's also that it's grotesque to do such things to babies in the name of entertainment - Not a stance I agree with, mind, but there you go.
No, I mean if the situation were real-life.
I cannot see why someone would be incredulous that someone else would care more about an unborn human child being eaten by space parasites than an animal dying.
It's kind of hypocritical, don't you think? We can do things to other creatures just because we're better yet we refuse to allow a situation similar to that to happen to us should we be the victims. This is the basis for many bias in history, including black slavery and the internment of Jews during WWII.
Maybe it was ******
Quote from: predxeno on May 29, 2010, 01:50:47 AM
We can do things to other creatures just because we're better
Who said we're
better? No-one here.
Quoteyet we refuse to allow a situation similar to that to happen to us should we be the victims.
And?
This is part of my problem with PETA. It's okay to eat animals. They are there to eat and be eaten. Eating
people is kind of stupid -- Most animals shy away from cannibalism unless necessary. And it sure as shit ain't necessary.
Animals aren't there to be eaten anymore than humans are there for aliens to eat if they existed. I'm not saying it's ok for people to depict humans getting egg-barfed, neither am I saying it's not ok, I'm just saying that if we assume that we have the right to treat other animals in a brutish manner, why couldn't we be treated in the same way by other organisms like the alien if it existed?
I don't have a problem with it. It definitely is disturbing but that is the way Xenos are supposed to be.
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on May 29, 2010, 04:33:19 AM
I don't have a problem with it. It definitely is disturbing but that is the way Xenos are supposed to be.
It wasn't disturbing at all,the handling was really poor,it looked like a jazzed up Lifetime movie set and was pretty lulzy as a whole.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm237%2Froostir%2Favpr070.jpg&hash=01f55a2706f284d9d02bb4807d4264cdf0627cdf)
Ahhhh *rubs eyes* Why do people always say I am wrong when I defend/say something positive about this film?
Because there is nothing positive about his film. :D
About the thread: The scene was pointless, extravagant, spat in the eye of existing continuity, nonsensical, juvenile... shall I go on?
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on May 29, 2010, 05:04:28 AM
Ahhhh *rubs eyes* Why do people always say I am wrong when I defend/say something positive about this film?
Because you let them.
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on May 29, 2010, 05:04:28 AM
Ahhhh *rubs eyes* Why do people always say I am wrong when I defend/say something positive about this film?
I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact I encourage you to fight for your beliefs. I, too, enjoyed this movie as well.
None can be sued for enjoying very bad films... It`s a pity though ::)
Quote from: SpaceMarines on May 29, 2010, 05:06:19 AM
About the thread: The scene was pointless, extravagant, spat in the eye of existing continuity, nonsensical, juvenile... shall I go on?
You shall.
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on May 29, 2010, 08:32:46 AM
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on May 29, 2010, 05:04:28 AM
Ahhhh *rubs eyes* Why do people always say I am wrong when I defend/say something positive about this film?
Because you let them.
What do you mean.
Quote from: predxeno on May 29, 2010, 12:56:18 PM
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on May 29, 2010, 05:04:28 AM
Ahhhh *rubs eyes* Why do people always say I am wrong when I defend/say something positive about this film?
I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact I encourage you to fight for your beliefs. I, too, enjoyed this movie as well.
Thanks, but I ment
THEM people not you people.
QuoteWhy do people hate the Predalien embryo implantation into the pregnant women?
Well it is a little silly.
Quote from: SiL on May 28, 2010, 10:25:40 AM
Oh, my, no.
Not even a little peek?
C'mon dawg.
It's beautiful. *sniff*
QuoteFADE IN:
EXT. SPACE
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg27.imageshack.us%2Fimg27%2F9060%2Fpicture4nzo.png&hash=4d4be89588fb76886699f1ad6425039fced01675)
Wadda I gotta do man
^That.Post
You asked for a little peek.
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on May 29, 2010, 10:00:04 PM
Thanks, but I ment THEM people not you people.
A Horror Horde of Crawl-And-Crush Giants
Clawing out of the Earth
From Mile-Deep Catacombs!
THEM!(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fantascienza.com%2Fcinema%2Fassalto-alla-terra%2Fmedia%2FTHEM_PIC.JPG&hash=40a464cef4ffb264358ad2fa7c0a1bb103c4e25d)
Have you ever had veal? All the predalien was doing was giving its young a good solid meal of baby meat before birthing. I would tend to think that a pregnant woman with a belly full of soft meaty goodness to chew on would be a more suitable host for a meat eating creature than a man with a gut full of beer belly. Thats just my loose opinion.
Quote from: Fujimaster on May 30, 2010, 11:13:21 AM
All the predalien was doing was giving its young a good solid meal of baby meat before birthing. I would tend to think that a pregnant woman with a belly full of soft meaty goodness to chew on would be a more suitable host for a meat eating creature than a man with a gut full of beer belly.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.tinypic.com%2F10yicgk.gif&hash=f54661efd6983bd140151ac431eea1c0f4a02019)
Quote from: OmegaZilla on May 30, 2010, 11:18:22 AM
Quote from: Fujimaster on May 30, 2010, 11:13:21 AM
All the predalien was doing was giving its young a good solid meal of baby meat before birthing. I would tend to think that a pregnant woman with a belly full of soft meaty goodness to chew on would be a more suitable host for a meat eating creature than a man with a gut full of beer belly.
http://i49.tinypic.com/10yicgk.gif
Just the response I was hoping for ;)
Quote from: Fujimaster on May 30, 2010, 11:13:21 AM
Have you ever had veal? All the predalien was doing was giving its young a good solid meal of baby meat before birthing. I would tend to think that a pregnant woman with a belly full of soft meaty goodness to chew on would be a more suitable host for a meat eating creature than a man with a gut full of beer belly. Thats just my loose opinion.
I think it makes sense. This is especially true when you consider that there are multiple chestbursters, not just one, and they need more food than a single person could normally provide.
That emoticon sums those replies up pretty nicely.... and the whole thread question to be sincere.
ok, granted... I just got too used to your very subtle choice of vid-replies ;)
Quote from: SiL on May 30, 2010, 07:56:07 AM
You asked for a little peek.
Ok how 'bout I ask for a bigger peek.
Like, a couple pages of the good stuff.
Show me some 'plosions.
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on May 29, 2010, 10:00:04 PM
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on May 29, 2010, 08:32:46 AM
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on May 29, 2010, 05:04:28 AM
Ahhhh *rubs eyes* Why do people always say I am wrong when I defend/say something positive about this film?
Because you let them.
What do you mean.
You don't need to defend or justify your opinions to anyone. Except me.
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on May 30, 2010, 09:28:45 PM
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on May 29, 2010, 10:00:04 PM
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on May 29, 2010, 08:32:46 AM
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on May 29, 2010, 05:04:28 AM
Ahhhh *rubs eyes* Why do people always say I am wrong when I defend/say something positive about this film?
Because you let them.
What do you mean.
You don't need to defend or justify your opinions to anyone. Except me.
I feel the need to when it is constantly trashed.
You actually insult this movie more by trying to rescue it. There are causes in greater need of your charity.
Hey, we're just fighting for what we believe in, that's a cause great enough for us.
Quote from: predxeno on May 30, 2010, 11:54:12 PM
Hey, we're just fighting for what we believe in, that's a cause great enough for us.
Agreed. (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackfive.net%2Fphotos%2Funcategorized%2Fmarinemotivation03.jpg&hash=d64368e5a74ab4280234945618a5d32f4b545f4c)
Some people dig on futility.
Sorta' like this hopeless villain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJsswPuStl4
Geez, that guy had no chance. At least Tommy Lee Jones gave him a run for his money. And they still ended up dying the same way! :D
I hate Seagal but I'll admit he always whipped some serious ass on the villains at the end of his films.
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on May 30, 2010, 11:59:20 PM
Quote from: predxeno on May 30, 2010, 11:54:12 PM
Hey, we're just fighting for what we believe in, that's a cause great enough for us.
Agreed. http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/marinemotivation03.jpg
The Jehovah's Witness at my door said the same thing.
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on May 31, 2010, 02:32:51 AM
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on May 30, 2010, 11:59:20 PM
Quote from: predxeno on May 30, 2010, 11:54:12 PM
Hey, we're just fighting for what we believe in, that's a cause great enough for us.
Agreed. http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/marinemotivation03.jpg
The Jehovah's Witness at my door said the same thing.
Wait, the Jehovah's Witness is at war?
Aginst the debil 4 ur soulz
And that's good for them, but they can win it without having to preach to the rest of us.
After enormous criticism of Predalien's abilities (among other things), Strausess started spinning the story and saying its an adolescent queen - basically burying themselves even deeper
First of all, its OBVIOUSLY not a queen. The queen that came from people looked NOTHING like her host. She looked kinda like anorexic, slim T-Rex. Yet Predalien looks 80% predator, and it doesnt even have four arms or ANY female features! Just male muscles and male bodybuilder breasts like Predators.
Plus, in antropology the queen doesnt go out or anything. Thats what warriors are for - to protect the queen cause her task is to find a nesting place and gestate there
PLUS, we see aliens in AVPR grow within minutes into full form. If Predalien is an adolescent queen, then hw the f**k it didnt change or grow within those two days in the movie? Yet it grew so big within minutes on the predator ship...lol. Ill tell you why, because it already WAS in full form! lame try Strause Bros!
About the only thing giving that claim little credibility is Predalien's head. But thats another miss. Cause ever since the first predalien portrayal in comic books, predalien always had a head like this - natural evolution from predator's forehead
All these issues have been raised before.
And since they've never been addressed adequately it's worth bringing them up yet again.
Though ultimately futile. ;D
I know, but since the original poster praised the implantation as a good way for the queen's I thought it was fitting to remind everyone that this is not a queen and that the implantation doesnt make sense one way or another
Well, if the Strause bros corrected their error, it is kind of believable. It could take longer for the predalien to develop into a queen than for the chestbursters to grow. It could very well be a praetorian. It's developing into a queen, but wasn't quite there yet. It's primary purpose in the film appeared to be to create a nest and make more warriors. I thought that it was always planned that the predalien was some sort of junior queen, after all none of the other aliens turned into one. But, if the Strauss brothers only made that excuse after the movie came out, then I agree completely. The people behind these ideas were complete idiots, losers, etc. and should be punished severely if what I heard about these ideas are true (that they were put in only to garner publicity rather than enhance aliens in their continuity), let alone be banned from making AvP movies or perhaps any movies at all again.
This was a Fox and Shane Salerno idea. They didn't put any kind of thought process into this and once the Bros tried to make sense of it the whole situation got worse. In a IGN interview video Greg said it borrows more from the Predator lifecycle than alien. But I don't buy that either.
I blame the Bros because they should've gotten rid of that RP method and not supported it. But I believe they weren't allowed to rewrite much new material from the drafts that Salerno had written already because Fox wouldn't allow them too.
Then I blame Fox for treating this franchise with zero respect. We shouldn't blame the Strause bros., they tried their best and they provided an explanation for the egg-barfing. Though, I disprove of the Predalien make trophies out of its victims method, I like to think of the literature as canon and the Predalien probably got some memory links from the preds or the want to make trophies is more biological than mental than we originally thought.
The Strauses treated it with the exact amount of respect as Davis and Fox. They wanted something that looked cool and little else. And shot themselves in the foot with the former.
QuoteThough, I disprove of the Predalien make trophies out of its victims method, I like to think of the literature as canon and the Predalien probably got some memory links from the preds or the want to make trophies is more biological than mental than we originally thought.
Don't recall seeing the original Alien in the galley making coffee or the Fiorina creature licking it's balls...
Exactly.
facehugger on people = born alien
facehugger on predator = born predalien ?!
And again, I already explained how the Queen excuse doesnt match at all. At all. But its no surprise. While commenting on things that dont make sense on the audio commentary, the Strauses mocked the fanbase and presented the fans as whiners who shouldnt complain ask for logical explanation. Thats during the scene when the cop's body is found on the tree if someone wants to listen.
Quote from: SM on Jun 02, 2010, 12:22:51 AM
Don't recall seeing the original Alien in the galley making coffee or the Fiorina creature licking it's balls...
I meant that the want to make trophies could be more instinctual than we previously thought, and you know how aliens rely on instinct. In the literature, aliens have some kind of psychic connection with each other and chestburster embryos could communicate with their hosts via this link.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 02, 2010, 12:28:36 AM
And again, I already explained how the Queen excuse doesnt match at all. At all. But its no surprise. While commenting on things that dont make sense on the audio commentary, the Strauses mocked the fanbase and presented the fans as whiners who shouldnt complain ask for logical explanation. Thats during the scene when the cop's body is found on the tree if someone wants to listen.
The queen excuse matches for me. And btw...EXCUSE ME?!!! The Strause bros mocked the fanbase for wanting a logical explanation?!! >:( That's an insult to almost every single person on this site and then some. This is science fiction, not science fantasy!!! If the bros don't believe in logical explanations, then someone sue them for this crap and not provide a logical explanation on why it will be legally allowed!!!
Sue them for expressing an opinion?
QuoteI meant that the want to make trophies could be more instinctual than we previously thought, and you know how aliens rely on instinct.
That takes instinct to a far fetched extreme. And anyway it got cut, so someone making decisions for that film isn't completely brainless.
The trophy thing was only shown once but was a terrible idea. Beat the hell out of the new game though.
Quote from: SM on Jun 02, 2010, 12:48:26 AM
Sue them for expressing an opinion?
QuoteI meant that the want to make trophies could be more instinctual than we previously thought, and you know how aliens rely on instinct.
That takes instinct to a far fetched extreme. And anyway it got cut, so someone making decisions for that film isn't completely brainless.
It didn't get cut, unfortunately. The predalien did it to the chef at the cafe. It took me awhile to realize it and even then I had to see it in Blu-ray. And I was just letting off steam due to the Strause bros total lack of consideration for us AvP fans. My blood still boils over reading this piece of news. >:(
QuoteThe predalien did it to the chef at the cafe.
It did? I only thought it did it the Predators on the ship which got deleted.
Quote from: SM on Jun 02, 2010, 01:21:30 AM
QuoteThe predalien did it to the chef at the cafe.
It did? I only thought it did it the Predators on the ship which got deleted.
Skull rip, but the shot is vague.
I know, but considering that the Predalien in AVP3 did it and the Fox people wanted it to do Predator stuff, it seems logical given the evidence.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 02, 2010, 01:34:43 AM
I know, but considering that the Predalien in AVP3 did it and the Fox people wanted it to do Predator stuff, it seems logical given the evidence.
The AVP3 Predalien also skinned bodies :-\ Chet was better than that.
I know about the skinned bodies. I saw a pic of an AVPR trading card depicting that. Instead of rope, the Predalien hung the bodies with Alien resin.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 02, 2010, 01:44:13 AM
I know about the skinned bodies. I saw a pic of an AVPR trading card depicting that. Instead of rope, the Predalien hung the bodies with Alien resin.
I'm confused..., I meant in the strip club in the game there was skinned bodies.
Huh? ??? I was referring to a deleted segment in the AVPR film where the Predalien kills two predators and hangs their skinned bodies on the ship with alien resin.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 02, 2010, 01:51:40 AM
Huh? ??? I was referring to a deleted segment in the AVPR film where the Predalien kills two predators and hangs their skinned bodies on the ship with alien resin.
In the game during the first marine mission in the strip club. In the center you will see skinned humans with Alien resin tieing them up.
Really? Haven't played the new AVP game yet thanks to my lack of a PS3 and a computer that has a good enough graphics card.
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on Jun 02, 2010, 04:24:08 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 02, 2010, 01:51:40 AM
Huh? ??? I was referring to a deleted segment in the AVPR film where the Predalien kills two predators and hangs their skinned bodies on the ship with alien resin.
In the game during the first marine mission in the strip club. In the center you will see skinned humans with Alien resin tieing them up.
And just before you enter that building, if you listen carefully, you can hear the growl of a predator nearby, and your motion tracker starts beeping. The beeping stops and you hear a very faint predator laugh (like from the first film). So when you enter the building you think theres a Predator stalking you and then you come across the bodies in the strip club. the whole room is covered in resin and is dripping with goo. The predalien wasnt even born at that stage of the game so it had to be a predator. IF you pay attention during the game there are a few little nods indicating a predator is following you, until it eventually shows its face near the end of the game. its one of the few things i think the game did well. it keeps the predator hidden, but if youre paying attention you'll know its there in many areas. makes you feel like its actually following and observing you through the game.
Definately isnt the predalien doing the skinning there. And you know what everything i just typed is IRRELEVANT because its in a game and isnt canon to the movies.
Everyone has their own personal canon. I like to think of the games and books to be canon. :D
Quote from: Keg on Jun 02, 2010, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on Jun 02, 2010, 04:24:08 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 02, 2010, 01:51:40 AM
Huh? ??? I was referring to a deleted segment in the AVPR film where the Predalien kills two predators and hangs their skinned bodies on the ship with alien resin.
In the game during the first marine mission in the strip club. In the center you will see skinned humans with Alien resin tieing them up.
And just before you enter that building, if you listen carefully, you can hear the growl of a predator nearby, and your motion tracker starts beeping. The beeping stops and you hear a very faint predator laugh (like from the first film). So when you enter the building you think theres a Predator stalking you and then you come across the bodies in the strip club. the whole room is covered in resin and is dripping with goo. The predalien wasnt even born at that stage of the game so it had to be a predator. IF you pay attention during the game there are a few little nods indicating a predator is following you, until it eventually shows its face near the end of the game. its one of the few things i think the game did well. it keeps the predator hidden, but if youre paying attention you'll know its there in many areas. makes you feel like its actually following and observing you through the game.
Definately isnt the predalien doing the skinning there. And you know what everything i just typed is IRRELEVANT because its in a game and isnt canon to the movies.
I was always under the opinion that the Alien Missions happened before the marine because the Predalien reveal in the first Predator mission. And because the cutscenes of both the Predator and Marine first missions interacted. BTW the Alien sound over the comm with the marines doesn't match with your skinning argument. IMHO the games are not cannon, I was just showing that the in game Predalien was worse for Predator characteristics.
no i agree. i have my own personal canon too. i like to think of the 2010 AVP game as part of the same universe because of its obvious story connections but i wont use it as evidence on these forums. But i do think of it as a sequel to the Predator, AVP and Alien trilogy (Resurrection is obviously way ahead of the game).
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on Jun 02, 2010, 08:12:33 PM
Quote from: Keg on Jun 02, 2010, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on Jun 02, 2010, 04:24:08 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 02, 2010, 01:51:40 AM
Huh? ??? I was referring to a deleted segment in the AVPR film where the Predalien kills two predators and hangs their skinned bodies on the ship with alien resin.
In the game during the first marine mission in the strip club. In the center you will see skinned humans with Alien resin tieing them up.
And just before you enter that building, if you listen carefully, you can hear the growl of a predator nearby, and your motion tracker starts beeping. The beeping stops and you hear a very faint predator laugh (like from the first film). So when you enter the building you think theres a Predator stalking you and then you come across the bodies in the strip club. the whole room is covered in resin and is dripping with goo. The predalien wasnt even born at that stage of the game so it had to be a predator. IF you pay attention during the game there are a few little nods indicating a predator is following you, until it eventually shows its face near the end of the game. its one of the few things i think the game did well. it keeps the predator hidden, but if youre paying attention you'll know its there in many areas. makes you feel like its actually following and observing you through the game.
Definately isnt the predalien doing the skinning there. And you know what everything i just typed is IRRELEVANT because its in a game and isnt canon to the movies.
I was always under the opinion that the Alien Missions happened before the marine because the Predalien reveal in the first Predator mission. And because the cutscenes of both the Predator and Marine first missions interacted. BTW the Alien sound over the comm with the marines doesn't match with your skinning argument. IMHO the games are not cannon, I was just showing that the in game Predalien was worse for Predator characteristics.
Only the first alien mission happens before the marines and predator missions. Then at the start of the aliens second mission you witness the marines landing, and we know the predators land at the same time as the marines. The predalien isnt born until after the marine blows up the refinery with the queen. The entire alien mission occurs during the first two human missions and the first predator mission ends just after that, as it witnesses the predalien running away. So when the marine is in the strip club the predalien doesnt even exist yet. And the sounds im referring to dont come from the comm. Ive taken my time with this game and observed everything and trust me there are several occasions where you hear the predators growls and clicks, especially in locations were there are hanging bodies. The game has several predators in it and ive had no reason to think that any of the hanging bodies found throughout the marine campaign were anything other than the doing of a regular predator.
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on Jun 02, 2010, 08:12:33 PM
I was always under the opinion that the Alien Missions happened before the marine because the Predalien reveal in the first Predator mission.
Alien Campaign ends during the Marine one, when the Queen dies.
Continuing from the other thread
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 04:00:36 AM
As I said earlier, it's a junior queen.
Its not. It was never intended to be untill after the fact when Strauses were bashed for the unsubstantiated extra powers of the Predalien
QuoteIt hasn't become an adult queen yet.
YET? It grew within minutes or hours from larva to the size we see in the movie. Thats it. Never changed an inch or grew an inch after that through the course of 2 days. Theres no denying the pattern here. They dont stop growing for days and then restart. In addition to that, Queen find nests and never movie. Thats why the Queen in aliens moved in such awkward way. The warriors bring hosts to the hidden and protected queen that nests in the hottest spots they can find.
QuoteAs the predalien grows into a queen it'll eventually lose its distinctive predator features
Why would that be? Forst of all, aliens dont grow being 80% human looking and then loosing human features. They grow from larva to alien we know, as simple as that. When iot comes to Queen, shes always the same. Ever seen the Queen burster in Alien 3? It already looked like a miniature Queen with extra arms and all the features
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alienscollection.com%2Ftsuburster.jpg&hash=d2a5021aad263b58b649134da857753c52270ece)
And heres Predalien burster
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg200.imageshack.us%2Fimg200%2F2538%2Favpchest4.jpg&hash=ad79714e1e024b767df765bec0bcacd08dd6aaa4)
Just a regular alien larva-like burster , eh? Of course it is, Predlaien wanst intended to be a Queen untill way after the movie was done
Quote, unless it's a divergent strain as explained previously.
And predalien is from the altered strain. Altered in such way that they grow much faster and almost instantly to an adult form. Thats why aliens grew so fast in AVP and thats why predalien became an adult so incredibly fast on Predator's ship
QuoteThe predalien is simply using the egg-barfing method to increase the number of adults it has before continuing to grow and eventually lay eggs.
And it doesnt make sense. Why would it then evolve into a cycle which is more requiring and complicated than that? She would then need facehuggers when she could implant embryos herself and wouldnt need to sit and lay eggs at all. Why the need of the eggs? Its one big logical mess that takes just too much to explain
QuoteAll your objections can be retconned in
Be my guest. Explain:
1.The queen that came from people looked
NOTHING like her host. She looked kinda like anorexic, slim T-Rex. As explained before, her posture and extra arms had purpose. Predalien doesnt have any feature of the queen. The only thing going for it is flat head but predaliens which were normal aliens in older comic books also had flat head because its an extinction of predator's forehead
2.The creator of the queen explained her growing and maturing process which is finding a hot spot to nest and sitting on her butt all her life lying eggs while warriors protect her and bring her hosts. Thats taken from REAL biology. in antropology the queen doesnt go out or anything
3. Predalien looks 80% predator, and it doesnt even have ANY female features. Dont forget the queen embryo from ALien 3, a miniature verison of the queen which already looks very similar to the final version. As a matter of fact, not even the regular aliens looked like their hosts.
Were the previous aliens Human-Alien hybrids? No. They were simply Aliens. If the Predalien was the result of gene-splicing, a scientific construct, then ok. But no, it is the result of a facehugger using a Predator as HOST. If anything, MINOR physical attributes would be there... basically just the mandibles (ie jaw structure). The Predalien, as it is as a Hybrid, makes no sense. It should simply be an Alien, from a Predator host.
4. we see aliens in AVPR grow within minutes into full form. If Predalien is an adolescent queen, then how it didnt change or grow within those two days in the movie? Especially with the accelarated growth? try any excuses, it still doesnt change the fact it doesnt grow at all yet we see its growth rate - no more than few hours from larva top the monster we see walking around in the period of 2 days. It grew full size so fast because it had an accelarated growth. It didnt grow one one tiny inch or change one tiny bit because it was already fully grown
5. dreadlocks
It shouldn't have them. Why does the Predalien take on so much of the Predator's attributes when it doesn't do so with Humans? Other aliens never had any hair
6. The current coloring looks too much like a Predator; yellows and greens. If this is to be an ALIEN of any kind (that came from a Predator host), then it should be BLACK and look like an EXOSKELETON.
7. he Predalien looked and acted too much like a Predator. And back to the "Not a Hybrid" point again, it's supposed to be an Alien that came out of a Predator. Its not a result of an Alien and Predator gettin' it on, so why does it look SO much like a Predator? Why does it have that "warrior/hunter" attitude? I understand the concept of the Alien taking on some attributes of its host, but would it really fight mano-a-mano? Would it skin its victims and hang them from the ceiling? The Predalien is THIS close to running around in armor, using weapons and mimicking voices.
8. By the account of the directors themsleves, it wasnt intended to be a queen. Their original explanation for the new life cycle was that it took it from Predators. Did you know that? yes, that was their intial excuse. When fans almost ate them alive for that they tried a new one, a long after the movie was done and released, and that was that of it being a young Queen.
Whoa, so many points I have to fight off or retcon in. All right, here it goes:
1. As I have been saying before; the predalien isn't a queen, it's a junior queen.
2. The predalien egg-barfs because it's biological system hasn't started making eggs yet. Eventually, through time, she will be reduced to sitting all day laying eggs.
3. The reason the queen alien in Alien 3 looked so much like a queen is because that it is a queen embryoo, the predalien wasn't. The predalien will go through a hormone storm to become the new queen.
4. I don't know exactly where everyone gets the idea that the predators accelerated their growth rate, I think probably from the DVD commentary, but the predators never wanted one to become a queen. They never wanted the aliens to get lose and kill off their valued human prey, as shown in AVPR. They could have put inhibitors in the aliens to slow or prevent any one from becoming a queen.
5. The dreadlocks could be a very important feature of the predators that had to be transferred to the predalien. They don't seem to be exactly hair like we have it, the ones on Scar Predator appear to be made of an inorganic material.
6. This is just alien biology, there are bound to be some things in the design that we will not like. Perhaps they got their coloring scheme from AVP2. Nobody complained about the predalien's color in that game or its expansion pack.
7. I don't like the predalien mimicking the predator any more than you do. But I have already created an explanation for that. The desire to make trophies may be more in the predators' instinct than any of us had previously thought. The aliens communicate with each other telepathically. In Alien Cauldron, an alien could even telepathically communicate with its host. Along with taking some physical features from the host, the predalien also could have taken this instinct from Scar Predator as well. You know how aliens are all about instinct.
8. Yes, I disprove heavily of what the directors did there, but at least they provided us with the excuse. Perhaps, the reason we are so reluctant to listen is that our blood still boils over the inconsideration that the producers of this film had for the proper continuity of the franchise.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 03, 2010, 11:11:40 AM
QuoteAs the predalien grows into a queen it'll eventually lose its distinctive predator features
Why would that be? Forst of all, aliens dont grow being 80% human looking and then loosing human features. They grow from larva to alien we know, as simple as that. When iot comes to Queen, shes always the same. Ever seen the Queen burster in Alien 3? It already looked like a miniature Queen with extra arms and all the features
In AVP Extinction, it is explained that the queens are part of a group of "Pure Breed" aliens. These aliens will always look the same no matter what host they come from. The other members of this group are; the praetorian, the carrier, and the ravager.
Sorry, I gotta step in here. Two of your points I really take issue with.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 01:23:25 PM
5. The dreadlocks could be a very important feature of the predators that had to be transferred to the predalien. They don't seem to be exactly hair like we have it, the ones on Scar Predator appear to be made of an inorganic material.
The dreadlocks appear to be fleshy, tentaclesque appendages. Okay, fleshy appendages. If the Predalien inherits those, why don't humaliens inherit breasts or penises? Fleshy appendages, crucial parts of our anatomy.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 01:23:25 PM
7. I don't like the predalien mimicking the predator any more than you do. But I have already created an explanation for that. The desire to make trophies may be more in the predators' instinct than any of us had previously thought. The aliens communicate with each other telepathically. In Alien Cauldron, an alien could even telepathically communicate with its host. Along with taking some physical features from the host, the predalien also could have taken this instinct from Scar Predator as well. You know how aliens are all about instinct.
Masturbation. Masturbation is an ingrained mammalian instinct, as basic as breathing and defecating. Fetuses in the womb have been seen pleasuring themselves, chimpanzees do so quite often, and most of us can probably attest to doing so. The Alien does not inherit the instinct to masturbate. Why would it inherit the 'instinct' to skin bodies and take skulls? It simply doesn't make sense; it was a stupid move, just one more on the long list of stupidity surrounding this insult to both franchises.
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Jun 03, 2010, 02:00:44 PM
Sorry, I gotta step in here. Two of your points I really take issue with.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 01:23:25 PM
5. The dreadlocks could be a very important feature of the predators that had to be transferred to the predalien. They don't seem to be exactly hair like we have it, the ones on Scar Predator appear to be made of an inorganic material.
The dreadlocks appear to be fleshy, tentaclesque appendages. Okay, fleshy appendages. If the Predalien inherits those, why don't humaliens inherit breasts or penises? Fleshy appendages, crucial parts of our anatomy.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 01:23:25 PM
7. I don't like the predalien mimicking the predator any more than you do. But I have already created an explanation for that. The desire to make trophies may be more in the predators' instinct than any of us had previously thought. The aliens communicate with each other telepathically. In Alien Cauldron, an alien could even telepathically communicate with its host. Along with taking some physical features from the host, the predalien also could have taken this instinct from Scar Predator as well. You know how aliens are all about instinct.
Masturbation. Masturbation is an ingrained mammalian instinct, as basic as breathing and defecating. Fetuses in the womb have been seen pleasuring themselves, chimpanzees do so quite often, and most of us can probably attest to doing so. The Alien does not inherit the instinct to masturbate. Why would it inherit the 'instinct' to skin bodies and take skulls? It simply doesn't make sense; it was a stupid move, just one more on the long list of stupidity surrounding this insult to both franchises.
Irrelevant and kind off topic, but how funny would it have been if in Aliens, the marines happened upon an xeno "baking the ham" only to waste it while the alien was in the middle of "doing business"? That is the first impression I go when I read the bolded statement above. Sure it would kill ANY sort of credibility or fear instilled upon the aliens, but it would've been funny.
According to the AVP1 movie novelization, Lex describes the dreadlocks as being inorganic and couldn't tell why they were there. Breasts and penises have a definite purpose for us humans. We use them to reproduce and nourish our young. Many organisms have these, but they serve no purpose to the aliens. Evolution wouldn't have granted them these genetic traits from the host when they already have a method of reproduction. Why do they need extra methods, they don't do pleasure or that kind of stuff only what is in the best interests for the hive as a whole, not what's best for them individually. Using this logic, we can see why the alien has no penis or vagina that can be related to humans or other mammals such as chimpanzees. We don't even know if their natural reproduction system allows them to masturbate in the first place. Maybe they do do that, it would give them something to do when they're hibernating. A thought that I do not approve of since it would probably reduce the fear factor that is associated with the aliens. Another explanation is that, perhaps, the predator and the alien belong to similar classes: reptiles, etc. Therefore, it is easier for the alien to get more traits from the predator than from humans.
QuoteEvolution wouldn't have granted them these genetic traits from the host when they already have a method of reproduction. Why do they need extra methods
Do you even read things you wrote? You are deffending another method of reproduction (totally pointless and stupid) and then useing argumen that it is pointless for aliens to have another one?
QuoteAnother explanation is that, perhaps, the predator and the alien belong to similar classes: reptiles, etc. Therefore, it is easier for the alien to get more traits from the predator than from humans.
I`ve never seen a reptile with condensed accid as blood. And aliens look nothing like creature which could have evolved on its own (they look like weapons of war), when predators are very human like.
Quote from: Master on Jun 03, 2010, 03:32:28 PM
I`ve never seen a reptile with condensed accid as blood.
Earth Reptile perhaps. Assuming Reptiles in the Alien Universe aren't exclusive to earth, Aliens could be alien reptiles on their own.
But reptiles is title for earth creatures.
Reptilian then? :D
Reptilian = similar to reptile. Argue as much as this predxeno guy about AvP-r`s logic, but still it dosen`t change the fact that Aliens aren`t even in slightest detile similar to reptiles.
Quote from: Master on Jun 03, 2010, 03:32:28 PM
QuoteEvolution wouldn't have granted them these genetic traits from the host when they already have a method of reproduction. Why do they need extra methods
Do you even read things you wrote? You are deffending another method of reproduction (totally pointless and stupid) and then useing argumen that it is pointless for aliens to have another one?
QuoteAnother explanation is that, perhaps, the predator and the alien belong to similar classes: reptiles, etc. Therefore, it is easier for the alien to get more traits from the predator than from humans.
I`ve never seen a reptile with condensed accid as blood. And aliens look nothing like creature which could have evolved on its own (they look like weapons of war), when predators are very human like.
This isn't a new method of reproduction, just an addition to it. The egg-barfing method isn't meant to replace the traditional egg-laying method. The egg-barfing method is used while the queen is still juvenile and can move around to hosts more easily. When it fully grows, however, it won't be able to do it anymore. Either becaue it's too big to get to hosts or its eggs are now actual alien eggs and not simply embryos anymore.
I was using reptile as an example. My point is; the aliens and predators could belong to similar kingdoms, phylums, etc.
Btw: Thanks for your support OmegaZilla, it is much appreciated. :)
Why it`s not meant to replace older meathod? It`s more efficient then lying eggs :D And in the end It gives us aliens few times faster. Also using your logic is there any indication in AvP-r that predalien will create egg sack etc.?
QuoteMy point is; the aliens and predators could belong to similar kingdoms, phylums, etc.
Do they look f**king alike? Do they have even one feature in common? No? Thanks for trying.
We have no way to tell what kind of creatures Xenomorphs are. They show characteristics of several creatures from different animal kingdoms.
Quote from: Master on Jun 03, 2010, 03:51:01 PM
Why it`s not meant to replace older meathod? It`s more efficient then lying eggs :D And in the end It gives us aliens few times faster. Also using your logic is there any indication in AvP-r that predalien will create egg sack etc.?
QuoteMy point is; the aliens and predators could belong to similar kingdoms, phylums, etc.
Do they look f**king alike? Do they have even one feature in common? No? Thanks for trying.
Uhhhh it is not more efficient, Chet could only impregnate women. Eggs/facehuggers can impregnate anyone and can leave the hive area. Chet is an isolated creature so having a queen around would be better,
VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT HERE:
For those of us who have the two-disc version of the film; go to Special Features and look at the Predalien documentary. It shows that the Strausse bros. always intended for the predalien to be some sort of junior queen.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 04:02:22 PM
VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT HERE:
For those of us who have the two-disc version of the film; go to Special Features and look at the Predalien documentary. It shows that the Strausse bros. always intended for the predalien to be some sort of junior queen.
Doesn't count as canon here, but I have seen it ;D First time I found out the upper body Predalien trick.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 04:02:22 PM
VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT HERE:
For those of us who have the two-disc version of the film; go to Special Features and look at the Predalien documentary. It shows that the Strausse bros. always intended for the predalien to be some sort of junior queen.
They've made the interviews
after the film... ::) ;) ;D
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jun 03, 2010, 04:16:28 PM
They've made the interviews after the film... ::) ;) ;D
Fair point, but what about the Queen headpiece they attached to the back of the Predalien's head, unless you are implying that that was put there more for design than to indicate that it was a junior queen?
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on Jun 03, 2010, 04:09:28 PM
Doesn't count as canon here, but I have seen it ;D First time I found out the upper body Predalien trick.
Why doesn't it count as canon?
Just because Ridley Scott says the egg room in the first film is a bomber doesn't mean it is. In a franchise with multiple directors only things that go on screen count as cannon.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 04:19:48 PM
Fair point, but what about the Queen headpiece they attached to the back of the Predalien's head, unless you are implying that that was put there more for design than to indicate that it was a junior queen?
That mere biforcation an imply? It could imply it's a Praetorian.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage09.webshots.com%2F9%2F7%2F6%2F0%2F108570600qDJJjh_ph.jpg&hash=dff4379c1eeb73657d52ed1132272d011633a92d)
See, from this, elongated, it's easy to tweak it into a biforcation.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 04:19:48 PM
Why doesn't it count as canon?
Film Footage=Canon, Everything Else=Not.
good god theres some idiotic comments getting spewed out in this thread. im leaving forever. its not worth the effort. ill shut the door behind me. buh bye
Isn't a praetorian some sort of junior queen as well, the female praetorians I mean? Since there were no other praetorians around, the predalien started going through the process of becoming a queen which included the temporary ability to egg-barf.
Aaaawohf (:D). Praetorians in games are the Queen Guards. Nothing less or more.
Well, you could evolve them into queens in AVP Extinction. It's also hinted in AVP1 PC game, in the manual, that they could be young queens.
Please kid understand one simple rule. If you wan to make idiotic argument than do so, but stick to (more or less) canon material = films only (start with those good ones as base and then build on crappier ones) ;)
Many of the ideas used in EU could hold some possibility in the movies, like the existence of Praetorians. Either way, I was responding to the idea of praetorians.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 05:30:15 PM
Many of the ideas used in EU could hold some possibility in the movies, like the existence of Praetorians.
Well if you take comic books as canon than you should believe that a Queen always looks the same whether she comes from a rhino (the first AVP comic) or a human being
Yup, I do. Alien queens are "pure breed aliens" as explained in AVP Extinction. They always turn out the same like the other members of their group: the praetorians, the ravagers, and the carriers.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 05:47:36 PM
Yup, I do. Alien queens are "pure breed aliens" as explained in AVP Extinction. They always turn out the same like the other members of their group: the praetorians, the ravagers, and the carriers.
But I thought you like Strausses' BS about Predalien being a Queen?
Junior queen, there's a difference. If the predalien had fully grown into a queen, it would have lost its distinctive predator features.
Oh cmon. Youre really stretching it. Funny that the chestburster in Alien 3 already looked like a Queen. And why would they change their appearance? Aliens never dropped the characteristics of their hosts while growing up. And to be fair, they never had any striking similarities to begin with
The chestburster in Alien 3 looked like a queen because it was a queen embryo deposited by a queen facehugger. The one that impregnated Scar Predator was a normal facehugger. None of the the aliens you mentioned ever grew up to be a queen. There could be many reasons why an alien would drop their appearance to become a queen, but right now they are all theories not backed up with proof yet. What do you mean by your last sentence?
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 06:19:49 PM
The chestburster in Alien 3 looked like a queen because it was a queen embryo deposited by a queen facehugger.
No it wasnt. Even if you take the Assembly Cut as canon over the theatrical one, the Queen facehugger hugged the ox, not Ripley. Ripley was hugged by the regular facehugger
What evidence do you have that we can use to support your statement? If the queen facehugger hugged the ox, why wasn't the runner a queen? So far, we only have evidence of one facehugger; the one that came from the egg aboard the Sulaco.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 07:07:06 PM
What evidence do you have that we can use to support your statement?
The movie. They drag the ox in and it falls off if it. One of the two prisoners finds it on the wagon they used to bring her in. The facehugger on Sulaco that closes in on the tubes however was the regular facehugger. Still, I believe the Theatrical AKA final version is canon, so in that case a regular facehugger is the only one in play.
Why then the ox doesnt give birth to a queen? Simple. Plot hole. And its not canon anyway
Here are pics btw
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg60.imageshack.us%2Fimg60%2F8172%2Fqueen_facehugger.jpg&hash=5a0bee0167bc7b366fc4f5745f0a850a7c7c04e6)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_rzdB5a4kLAo%2FSUwCJsy-rOI%2FAAAAAAAAMI0%2F_AdmXkVzNt4%2Fs400%2Fqueenfacehugger3.jpg&hash=951e89997ad3f1354d19649822fe40d7c8d8b172)
Super-facehugger was ment to be able to hugg two hosts. One of queen and one for drone that will protect Her Majesty.
@predxeno:
-No, aliens do not loose their host`s characterictics.
-No, aliens don`t change into queens. Aliens are being born either as Drone or Queen.
-Yes, alien Queen do take characterictics of her host. Examples: 1. Alien Queen had too many host traits in A:R that`s why she developed "newborn lifecycle". 2. Queen in AvP was abit different than one in Aliens which suggest that she had different host.
It was not a plot hole. The queen facehugger was supposed to be able to implant two hosts.
Master you beat me to it.........
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 03:24:31 PM
According to the AVP1 movie novelization, Lex describes the dreadlocks as being inorganic and couldn't tell why they were there. Breasts and penises ave a definite purpose for us humans. We use them to reproduce and nourish our young. Many organisms have these, but they serve no purpose to the aliens. Evolution wouldn't have granted them these genetic traits from the host when they already have a method of reproduction. Why do they need extra methods, they don't do pleasure or that kind of stuff only what is in the best interests for the hive as a whole, not what's best for them individually. Using this logic, we can see why the alien has not penis or vagina that can be related to humans or other mammals such as chimpanzees. We don't even know if their natural reproduction system allows them to masturbate in the first place. Maybe they do do that, it would give them something to do when they're hibernating. A thought that I do not approve of since it would probably reduce the fear factor that is associated with the aliens. Another explanation is that, perhaps, the predator and the alien belong to similar classes: reptiles, etc. Therefore, it is easier for the alien to get more traits from the predator than from humans.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi717.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww179%2Fwonkybiff%2Fgifs%2F25rph6c.gif&hash=5da72317ec385b2bd1e62012e4e201f651b9c54b)
You completely missed my point. Let me break this down.
You said that perhaps the reason that Predaliens have tentacles is that it may be a very important part of the Predator.
I then responded that if that logic was followed through, then humaliens would have penises or breasts, which are both very important parts of our anatomy. Seeing as they don't, your point is moot.
You said that perhaps the reason that the Predalien skins bodies is because it inherits the instinct from the Predators.
I said that if that were true, they would inherit instincts from us, such as masturbation. Seeing as they don't that, again, is a moot point.
To Master:
We can't include the A:R queen in this discussion. Ripley clone #8 had alien traits that nature never intended for her to have and an argument can be made that the aliens had human traits that nature intended them to have, either. How was the AvP queen different? The only difference that the producers made was that they made her body slimmer, an idea that Cameron wanted to do but couldn't due to technological restraints at the time. Since I take literature to be canon, yes, drones can grow into queens by a "hormone storm". We have never seen an alien hybrid of any sort grow into a queen and lose or keep characteristics, so what source do you have that aliens don't lose their genetic traits (btw I was only referring to aliens losing traits when they grow into queens)?
To SpaceMarines:
Well, the predalien didn't inherit the penises or breasts of the predators so I don't think you can make that comparison. And as I said earlier, we don't know if aliens can masturbate or whether or not they have to bodily functions to do so. But I take your point, perhaps the trophying of prey was an instinct that was more easily picked up by the alien than humans' need to masturbate for pleasure. The need to trophy in predator culture is equivalent to some sort of survival in predator society. Only those with good trophies can get honor and an increased chance at survival. Aliens are all about survival, they are even willing to fight if they have sustained multiple injuries, mutilations, and amputations. I don't believe that I have ever seen a natural alien just give up on a fight before, whether it's for the survival of itself as an individual or for the survival of the entire hive.
Then what's an example of human or dog/ox behaviour that another Alien has inherited?
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Jun 03, 2010, 09:09:33 PM
Then what's an example of human or dog/ox behaviour that another Alien has inherited?
You misunderstand me. In predator culture, the need to make trophies out its victims is a way of surviving in the predator society. This need to survive along with the violence that is exhibited to other species is something that the predators and alien mindsets have in common. It would be easier for the predalien to inherit these instincts than something that seems so trivial in comparison as masturbation. What instincts does the ox/dog have that relates to the need to survive that the alien can use? For the dog, all I can think of is the need to chase after cars and people, which the runner alien did in the leadworks.
You know what's a way of surviving in out society? Make lots of money. That way, you can be ensured that you can buy all of the food and shelter you and your family will ever need. I've yet to see an Alien attempt to get a job or rob a bank. The Predalien taking trophies is simply stupid, and added because it 'looks cool', much like the throat-embryos crap.
Is it our instinct to get money? If we were stranded on a desert island, would one of our first instincts be to get our hands on a load of money? That stuff isn't ingrained in our psyche, our instinct actually appears to be to gather things. This may explain why many of the aliens in the movies gather bodies and other stuff (in the books they gathered furniture, even) to build their nest. We don't know how ingrained trophying is in the predator psyche, they are willing to kill themselves to preserve their honor. This highly suggests that even when on the verge of death or on a desert island, they will think about trophies and such as a way to maintain honor.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 03, 2010, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 04:00:36 AM
As I said earlier, it's a junior queen.
Its not. It was never intended to be untill after the fact when Strauses were bashed for the unsubstantiated extra powers of the Predalien.
The Bros said it was turning into a Queen before people bashed it. They explicitly stated that was their original intention. As has been said before, that's why it has a crown. Not a flat, Predator-like head -- A Queen-like crown that was deliberately made to resemble a Queen's head to show that it was turning into a Queen.
When people called bullshit on
that the Bros started changing their tunes.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 03, 2010, 09:36:21 PM
Is it our instinct to get money? If we were stranded on a desert island, would one of our first instincts be to get out hands on a load of money? That stuff isn't ingrained in our psyche, our instinct actually appears to be to gather things. This may explain why many of the aliens in the movies gather bodies and other stuff (in the books they gathered furniture, even) to build their nest. We don't know how ingrained trophying is in the predator psyche, they are willing to kill themselves to preserve their honor. This highly suggests that even when on the verge of death or on a desert island, they will think about trophies and such as a way to maintain honor.
My point was this; just because it is a behaviour that is exhibited quite often, doesn't make it an instinct. It appears to be more of a cultural thing, anyways. If all of the Predators were interested in only getting trophies, how would they have developed inter-stellar travel, or direct energy weaponry, or active camouflage? Frankly, I'm not quite sure what I'm arguing about anymore. It's been fun, but I'm done for now.
QuoteTo Master:
We can't include the A:R queen in this discussion. Ripley clone #8 had alien traits that nature never intended for her to have and an argument can be made that the aliens had human traits that nature intended them to have, either. How was the AvP queen different? The only difference that the producers made was that they made her body slimmer, an idea that Cameron wanted to do but couldn't due to technological restraints at the time. Since I take literature to be canon, yes, drones can grow into queens by a "hormone storm". We have never seen an alien hybrid of any sort grow into a queen and lose or keep characteristics, so what source do you have that aliens don't lose their genetic traits (btw I was only referring to aliens losing traits when they grow into queens)?
To begine with, here you have pictures of both Aliens and AvP Queens. Differences are visible:
Aliens
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froberthood.net%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F06%2Falien-queen-aliens.jpg&hash=484f56cdc36ab235b7aa43e81a0f45de86b4a2de)
AvP
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.ning.com%2Ffiles%2FSI-J%2Ae%2A4HRwuojzwKyTZYACtyeaAvx%2Ajxe7-YYRBONbXI2WXzASMRQY98-KdZ-AWlkEs0JlArr0yDmYftpcZ6B1%2AUK-OQ1Rw%2FAlienQueen.jpg&hash=c669233a957f669efc6ad5f37f47979c1c3c5fef)
About A:R Queen, yes we can use her in this disscusion because the very fact she obtained (and shared) genes with Ripley shows that she must take characterictics from hosts.
No it doesn't.
It means she got contaminated during the cloning process. Like Ripley.
True ...
To SpaceMarines (if you are still here):
It is revealed that the Hish in Predator Forever Midnight stole technology from other races. Though, you may not say that this is true in the films as well, it is still a possibility. You are also missing my point; what I'm trying to say is that trophying is more than a cultural behavior, but is one of the first instincts predators have when they are born.
To Master:
The A:R queen didn't legitimately obtain the human characteristics. Do humans normally have acid for blood or any of the other traits that Ripley clone #8 had? The alterations due to the genetic engineering could have affected the species in a way that is unnatural to the regular DNA reflex shown by these creatures during normal gestation inside of a host. Now to the second point: yes, I see differences between the two queens. However, we have no evidence that those differences are due to a difference in hosts. Many of the queens in comics appear different from queens depicted earlier or later. Perhaps this difference is due different strains of the same organism. In the new Aliens comic, the aliens have two spikes coming out of the left and right sides of their mouths. I haven't read the entire comic yet, but a different in strain of this virus-like organism may produce different organisms. My arguments over differential evolution can also help explain these descrepancies. How a group of organisms raised in different conditions can evolve differently than another group of organisms from the same species in a different area. The aliens in AvP may be the ancestors of the one in Alien or vice-versa depending on how old the eggs in the derelict on LV-426 were (I don't know for sure).
Has anyone ever just stopped and thought, MAYBE, what the Regular drone picks up from a human host, is INTELLECT? the abillity to manipulate and decieve? I think the PredAlien Queen theory actually makes sense, in the fact that it was at a point where it wasnt fully developed, but was in a situation where it NEEDED to make a hive (Based on the fact, that it would have developed in the ship, had it not crashed into the damn planet) This gave it a hormonal instinct, to find hosts and throat**** them. It went into an emergency state. As for the dreadlocks, I believe that this physical aspect on predators may be something as simple as Wisdom Teeth. Everyone is born with them, but we dont have a real purpose for them. Or maybe it is something in predators that we dont understand, that hasnt fully been explained via movie? The Predalien took an aspect from the Predator, and some instinct, just like a drone would from the humans. And for those that would make the argument, "What does a drone take from a human physically?" I would have to say, Nothing. Maybe no physical aspect taken from humans would have made them better. Maybe that is how the genetics thing works, Maybe the alien only takes genetics from its host that will improve it. Maybe the dreds are a source of power, or hearing ,or some sense.
QuoteHas anyone ever just stopped and thought, MAYBE, what the Regular drone picks up from a human host, is INTELLECT?
So why didn't the original creature simply vent the Nostromo's atmosphere into space, then egg morph the bodies (or whatever he wanted to do with them) instead of all that sneaking around in the dark and chomping people in the head?
This is a simple one. Because that was merley a drone, whereas Chet, was a predalien queen, not fully developed, acting on emergency instinct because of injury or sudden change of climate in the crash. Whats to say a queen couldnt do the faceF***? if it lost its eggsack
If it does the facef**k it doesn't need an eggsack period - eggsacks just slow everything down with all that egg laying and facehugging. Since eggsacks seemingly ARE needed - facef**king isn't; and therefor bullshit.
And you didn't really answer the question which was regarding your talk of intellect.
This is hopeless, no meather what argument you use, they still believe in BS BS. Ok. fine, facef**k is 100% canon and logical, and needed too! ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: Abhunter on Jun 04, 2010, 06:12:16 AM
Has anyone ever just stopped and thought, MAYBE, what the Regular drone picks up from a human host, is INTELLECT?
So why didn't the Aliens in
Aliens use the small arms of the colonists? Or the flame-throwers and pistols left by the dead marines? Why didn't the original Alien take Brett's cattle prod and Dallas' flamethrower and force the crew of the Nostromo so it could have its way with them?
Cos they don't take intellect, that's why.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 04, 2010, 07:55:33 AM
Quote from: Abhunter on Jun 04, 2010, 06:12:16 AM
Has anyone ever just stopped and thought, MAYBE, what the Regular drone picks up from a human host, is INTELLECT?
So why didn't the Aliens in Aliens use the small arms of the colonists? Or the flame-throwers and pistols left by the dead marines? Why didn't the original Alien take Brett's cattle prod and Dallas' flamethrower and force the crew of the Nostromo so it could have its way with them?
Cos they don't take intellect, that's why.
I don't think he means that advanced of intellectl
I don't think he even knows what he means. "The ability to manipulate and deceive"?
You could argue the original did that by attacking Brett and Dallas while they were alone, instead attacking a group of people. But then it confronted Parker and Lambert at the same time.
If it means attacking something when it's close enough that it has little chance of escape - like in the Hadley hive. Big whoop. I don't think that really amounts to great "intellect".
If we take it as read that Aliens know their blood is acidic, why didn't the original simply bleed a hole into the lower deck, to vent the atmosphere, if opening an airlock was beyond him?
I think that dead people are useless for alien. In oredr to gestate the embryo need living host, same with egg morphing. That`s why he didn`t vent the atmosphere out of the ship.
And IMO they are aware of their accid blood. (I do treat A:R and AvP canon)
And about intelect, they cut off power in Hadley`s hope, and opened cooling tank at Auriga. They do posses some kind of knowladge obtained from it`s host and some sort of intelect. But this is not Human like intelect.
Quote from: Master on Jun 04, 2010, 08:27:47 AM
I think that dead people are useless for alien.
Dead bodies make eggs just fine.
QuoteThey do posses some kind of knowladge obtained from it`s host
This is never once shown. Except maybe AR, and even then there's the whole issue of genetic tampering.
QuoteDead bodies make eggs just fine.
Where did you get this? ::)
QuoteThis is never once shown. Except maybe AR, and even then there's the whole issue of genetic tampering.
And aliens where they turned off the electricity.
Quote from: Master on Jun 04, 2010, 08:42:17 AM
Where did you get this? ::)
Alien: Director's Cut.
QuoteAnd aliens where they turned off the electricity.
Means shit-all in the context of genetic memories. How many of the colonists do you honestly expect knew what wires to cut? The Aliens were running around the colony for
at least three weeks. They had time to learn stuff.
QuoteAlien: Director's Cut.
IIRC Dallas was very much alive and barett wasn`t also 100% dead (he moved).
QuoteThe Aliens were running around the colony for at least three weeks. They had time to learn stuff.
That dosen`t convince me. They are in entirely alien environmet to them, and are not brightest creatures. Genetic memory is more appealing (and terrifying).
Whatever is more 'appealing' is no factor here. Genetic memory is not mentioned a single time - so it's not canon.
Quote from: Master on Jun 04, 2010, 09:08:13 AM
IIRC Dallas was very much alive and barett wasn`t also 100% dead (he moved).
Brett didn't move, he
oozed. He was very much dead. Having a giant hole in your head will do that.
QuoteThat dosen`t convince me.
It's better supported than that high a level of genetic memory.
Read what you're typing. You're trying to say that they took enough memory to know exactly what cable to cut to take the power out of Operations - and
only Operations - but they couldn't pick up a gun and start shooting?
QuoteIt's better supported than that high a level of genetic memory.
Read what you're typing. You're trying to say that they took enough memory to know exactly what cable to cut to take the power out of Operations - and only Operations - but they couldn't pick up a gun and start shooting?
Is it much less possible then an idea that they learned exactly which cable must be destroyed to turn off electricity in Operations and only Operations?
QuoteBrett didn't move, he oozed. He was very much dead. Having a giant hole in your head will do that.
Even so, still eggmorphing wasn`t completed so there is no ON SCREEN evidence that dead meat serves any purpose to Aliens. To embryo gestate and create new alien alive host is needed. And it was removed from Theatrical cut so it`s canonity is ambiguous (though I find it as an intersting way to produce super-facehugger egg, when there is no Queen to do so).
Quote from: Master on Jun 04, 2010, 10:14:28 AM
Is it much less possible then an idea that they learned exactly which cable must be destroyed to turn off electricity in Operations and only Operations?
Yes. If Aliens can sense electric currents they could see what was supplying Operations.
If you're going by genetic memory then there's always the giant flaw of 'Why not pick up a gun'.
QuoteEven so, still eggmorphing wasn`t completed so there is no ON SCREEN evidence that dead meat serves any purpose to Aliens
Wasn't completed how?
QuoteYes. If Aliens can sense electric currents they could see what was supplying Operations.
And where was it hinted?
QuoteWasn't completed how?
Have you seen finished egg? Or a facehugger that came out from barett`s body? Because I`m looking at it right now and see only a pile of human shaped goo.
Quote from: Master on Jun 04, 2010, 11:09:49 AM
And where was it hinted?
Absolutely nowhere.
Just like them knowing what cable based on genetic memory.
Although at least sensing electrical currents has precedence on Earth.
QuoteHave you seen finished egg? Or a facehugger that came out from barett`s body? Because I`m looking at it right now and see only a pile of human shaped goo.
It's quite clearly turning into an egg. It's not as vague as you're making out -- the petals of the egg are visible. There's zero reason to assume it wouldn't turn into a fully functioning egg later.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 04, 2010, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: Master on Jun 04, 2010, 09:08:13 AM
IIRC Dallas was very much alive and barett wasn`t also 100% dead (he moved).
Brett didn't move, he oozed. He was very much dead.
Brett still screamed all the way to the top so it seems like he was still alive. Secondly, it seems apparent that corpses are of no use for alien since he leaves dead bodies lying where they are even tho he needs hosts
Quote from: SiL on Jun 04, 2010, 11:13:34 AM
Quote from: Master on Jun 04, 2010, 11:09:49 AM
And where was it hinted?
Absolutely nowhere.
Just like them knowing what cable based on genetic memory.
Although at least sensing electrical currents has precedence on Earth.
Just like genetic memory.
Quote
QuoteHave you seen finished egg? Or a facehugger that came out from barett`s body? Because I`m looking at it right now and see only a pile of human shaped goo.
It's quite clearly turning into an egg. It's not as vague as you're making out -- the petals of the egg are visible. There's zero reason to assume it wouldn't turn into a fully functioning egg later.
There is no reason to assume it will.
Quote from: Master on Jun 04, 2010, 11:27:10 AM
Just like genetic memory.
If my father is a molecular scientist, that does not make
me a molecular scientist.
So no, not in the way you're saying.
QuoteThere is no reason to assume it will.
Reproduction is something most animals know instinctively. Aliens don't take dead bodies to use as hugger material cos a hugger needs a live host; the Alien wouldn't have taken Brett if he was useless. Burden's on you to prove Brett wouldn't have formed a functioning egg.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 04, 2010, 11:25:28 AM
Brett still screamed all the way to the top so it seems like he was still alive.
Briefly, sure. But that blow would have killed him soon after.
QuoteSecondly, it seems apparent that corpses are of no use for alien since he leaves dead bodies lying where they are even tho he needs hosts
And this is where the Alien being alien comes into play.
Who knows why it killed Brett (unarmed) but kept Dallas alive (armed), or why it flat-out killed both Parker
and Lambert (armed and unarmed). The Alien's thought process is just that, alien.
Although for argument's sake the novel provided a, well, novel explanation for why Parker and Lambert were left; the Alien couldn't get them into the vent (except in the novel the Alien had crammed both into the vent, and they got stuck). It would at least explain what Lambert's hanging from.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 04, 2010, 11:38:22 AM
And this is where the Alien being alien comes into play.
Who knows why it killed Brett (unarmed) but kept Dallas alive (armed), or why it flat-out killed both Parker and Lambert (armed and unarmed). The Alien's thought process is just that, alien.
Being alien? Haha, thats a fancy way to describe lack of logic and plotholes. But its fine, its not a dig at the movie in any way. Every movie has faults and alien's actions just werent carefully thought through during the writing process
QuoteAlthough for argument's sake the novel provided a, well, novel explanation for why Parker and Lambert were left; the Alien couldn't get them into the vent (except in the novel the Alien had crammed both into the vent, and they got stuck). It would at least explain what Lambert's hanging from.
Now thats better and thats the explanation I always took. Too bad it wasnt more apparent in the movie because then it makes alien's action look like plotholes deprived of any sense. Anyway, I always assumed Lambert's hanging from the wheelcart that they had there for their supplies
QuoteIf my father is a molecular scientist, that does not make me a molecular scientist.
So no, not in the way you're saying
You are trying to put your words in my mouth. I never said it in context you are useing, I only said that it is existent, and that`s true.
QuoteBurden's on you to prove Brett wouldn't have formed a functioning egg.
Canon is with my! ;D There was no hugger out of Brett, nor dose he look like egg (simila? maybe, but this is debatable). The idea is from commentary, that he would have become one, thus non-canon. Argue as much as you want, still it`s not showned in film.
QuoteBriefly, sure. But that blow would have killed him soon after.
We don`t know that. And StrangeShape is right. Alien didn`t took dead bodies, never.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 04, 2010, 11:44:52 AM
Being alien? Nice new word for lack of logic and plotholes. But its fine, its not a dig at the movie in any way. Every movie has faults and alien's actions just werent carefully thought through during the writing process
There are other explanations:
Had two eggs, didn't need more.
Was already starting to die, as per the original concept, and didn't have the strength to transport and transform the last two corpses.
Was going to come back later.
Got distracted by a pretty light.
Etc.
Quote from: Master on Jun 04, 2010, 11:47:56 AM
You are trying to put your words in my mouth. I never said it in context you are useing, I only said that it is existent, and that`s true.
But you are saying that.
There's no reason for the Alien to take such specific memories from its host. Genetic memories exist, but they're instinctual things, actions repeated millions of times over thousands and millions of years.
Not the circuitry of a space colony.
QuoteThere was no hugger out of Brett,
No shit, the egg wasn't finished yet.
Quotenor dose he look like egg
Now you're just being needlessly stubborn.
QuoteThe idea is from commentary, that he would have become one, thus non-canon. Argue as much as you want, still it`s not showned in film.
What else is he?
He looks like a proto-form egg. He has the smooth curving side, the distinct petal shapes forming around his head with the equally distinct lips on said petals that the eggs we saw earlier had. It's there. It's like looking at an unfinished painting and saying 'Well, it isn't a painting.'
QuoteWe don`t know that.
Has anyone
ever survived a head-bite long?
No.
Don't think it'll kill you? Fine, just go and find a hammer and smash it through the front of your forehead, clean into your brain. Make sure to use the pointed side so you tear some of the grey matter out when you remove the hammer, too, just to make sure to recreate the effect of the headbite.
Then get back to me.
If before you were being needlessly stubborn, now you're being needlessly stupid. Having your head cored in an Alien film kills you. Not always immediately, but no-one's ever been seen alive any longer than a few seconds afterwards.
Shit, there is
dialogue in the movie addressing this.
"Could it want him alive?"
"What?"
"Could Brett be alive?"
"No."
Quote from: SiL on Jun 04, 2010, 11:59:00 AM
Had two eggs, didn't need more.
That one I dont buy. Knowing it lives for such a short period of time it should collect as many hosts as possible withing its lifetime
QuoteWas already starting to die, as per the original concept, and didn't have the strength to transport and transform the last two corpses.
Btw, its also something that I sometimes regret that wasnt explained or shown more clearly in the movie because when someone doesnt know that the alien is already an old grampa by the end of the movie and sees it just lying next to Ripley just yawning may send wrong impression and take away the edge and danger from the creature.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jun 04, 2010, 12:05:13 PM
That one I dont buy. Knowing it lives for such a short period of time it should collect as many hosts as possible withing its lifetime
I agree. I'm just saying.
QuoteBtw, its also something that I sometimes regret that wasnt explained or shown more clearly in the movie because when someone doesnt know that the alien is already an old grampa by the end of the movie and sees it just lying next to Ripley just yawning may send wrong impression and take away the edge and danger from the creature.
Personally I think it works either way. Even if it isn't dying, it shows the thing isn't just a wholly violent thing, which, honestly, I can dig. I know a lot of the Alien's fright comes from the whole unthinking abomination angle, but they idea of being cornered in a room with it and it taking its dear, dear sweet time is just chilling to me.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 04, 2010, 12:08:29 PM
Personally I think it works either way. Even if it isn't dying, it shows the thing isn't just a wholly violent thing, which, honestly, I can dig. I know a lot of the Alien's fright comes from the whole unthinking abomination angle, but they idea of being cornered in a room with it and it taking its dear, dear sweet time is just chilling to me.
I agree with you to a point. What I mean is, it works for the scene with Lambert but not for the shuttle scene, at least for me.
With Lambert scene, I get the same feeling you described. I think its one of the creepiest scenes ever and that particular scene gave me one mean nightmare once which I wont forget.
But with the shuttle scene, it just doesnt seem that dangerous. Even tho youre next to it, it just yawns and doesnt do anything. With that scene in mind I prefer the approach of attacking on sight
QuoteDon't think it'll kill you? Fine, just go and find a hammer and smash it through the front of your forehead, clean into your brain. Make sure to use the pointed side so you tear some of the grey matter out when you remove the hammer, too, just to make sure to recreate the effect of the headbite.
Then get back to me.
If before you were being needlessly stubborn, now you're being needlessly stupid. Having your head cored in an Alien film kills you. Not always immediately, but no-one's ever been seen alive any longer than a few seconds afterwards.
No need to be rude. Do Alien can adjust strength of headbite? Possibly. Which is easier, carry unconscious man, or the one that is struggling etc.? My point is that Brett could have been hit strong enough to damage his skin (appearance of blood) and drop him unconscious, not instantly killed.
About surviving brain damage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage
QuoteNow you're just being needlessly stubborn.
You too, trying to prove thing that is not so obvious and not necessarily canon.
Maybe, the reason for the face**** like I said earlier, Gave chet some aliens, but they would die out very quick, or not be as strong as those that came from the egg sack. The Bro's put a dick in our ass with this concept, and now people just gotta find something to back it up a little bit.
Quote from: Abhunter on Jun 04, 2010, 04:29:10 PM
Maybe, the reason for the face**** like I said earlier, Gave chet some aliens, but they would die out very quick, or not be as strong as those that came from the egg sack. The Bro's put a dick in our ass with this concept, and now people just gotta find something to back it up a little bit.
Unfortunately, backing it up with logic and reasoning should be their job, it shouldnt be left to us
Quote from: Master on Jun 04, 2010, 12:21:25 PM
Do Alien can adjust strength of headbite? Possibly.
Oh get off the grass, now you're just grasping for straws :-\
QuoteMy point is that Brett could have been hit strong enough to damage his skin (appearance of blood) and drop him unconscious, not instantly killed.
His brains came out. Watch the scene. Freeze-frame it if you have to. Brain matter is torn from his skull.
QuoteAbout surviving brain damage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage
I was careful to say 'in Alien movies'.
QuoteYou too, trying to prove thing that is not so obvious
It is obvious. I'm not the one who has to grasp at straws to prove my point -- it's all there in the film.
You're the one coming up with half a dozen 'well maybe's to disprove me.
QuoteHis brains came out. Watch the scene. Freeze-frame it if you have to. Brain matter is torn from his skull.
It did? Well that changes some things...
QuoteIt is obvious. I'm not the one who has to grasp at straws to prove my point -- it's all there in the film. You're the one coming up with half a dozen 'well maybe's to disprove me.
And what about it being canon? ;)
At the end of the day, Brett was killed, and it still dragged him off. Egg morphing or no it still felt there was some use for him.
I can agree with that. ;)
First off, I don't think the aliens inherit much intellect from their hosts, just instinct. In Aliens Nightmare Asylum, it is explained that the reason the aliens can't use guns is that they can't hit anything bigger than a wall, even at close range. I don't know what you're talking about, but the aliens always take away the dead bodies, they are used to help construct the hive. In the AVP game for Jaguar, the alien can make dead bodies turn into adult aliens (these are extra lives). This could be what the alien was doing to Brett, not making him into an egg with a facehugger. I think the reason aliens can disable electricity is because they somehow just know what some wire are and they just destroy everything in sight. Also, I hate to rain on your parade SiL, but there is one survivor of an alien headbite in the movies. Verheiden was headbitten by an alien after he fell through a trap door in the maze. We later see him glued to the wall next to Miller, after he wakes up, with a facehugger clamped on his face.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 04, 2010, 10:26:07 PM
Also, I hate to rain on your parade SiL, but there is one survivor of an alien headbite in the movies. Verheiden was headbitten
No he wasn't.
We see the Alien lunge for him. There's no sign he was headbitten, such as having a gaping hole in his head.
QuoteThis could be what the alien was doing to Brett, not making him into an egg with a facehugger.
No, the Alien was turning him into an egg. That's what the filmmakers wanted, that's what they put in the scene. The Jaguar game turned the egg-morphing into an interesting idea for an extra life, nothing more.
You've really gotta stop bringing expanded universe into discussions regarding the movies. They don't fit together.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 04, 2010, 10:30:00 PM
QuoteThis could be what the alien was doing to Brett, not making him into an egg with a facehugger.
No, the Alien was turning him into an egg. That's what the filmmakers wanted, that's what they put in the scene. The Jaguar game turned the egg-morphing into an interesting idea for an extra life, nothing more.
Unfortunately, as many people keep telling me, unless it's actually in the movie, it's not canon.
It was in the director's cut. Which was theatrically released.
People talk about stuff that happened in the Aliens DC as canon; we can do the same with Alien.
Egg-morphing's been known since 1979. A game released in the early 90s isn't about to rewrite it.
I don't precisely remember the Verheiden scene, but remember that Aliens don't always go for the head with the inner jaw.
Quote from: SM on Jun 05, 2010, 12:43:13 AM
I don't precisely remember the Verheiden scene, but remember that Aliens don't always go for the head with the inner jaw.
The alien in A:R went for Elgyn's torso, I think.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 04, 2010, 10:37:53 PM
It was in the director's cut. Which was theatrically released.
People talk about stuff that happened in the Aliens DC as canon; we can do the same with Alien.
Egg-morphing's been known since 1979. A game released in the early 90s isn't about to rewrite it.
Yes, but it wasn't actually mentioned for certain what was happening to Brett.
The film assumes a certain level of basic intelligence on behalf of the audience.
Riddles, Danny O'B et al. assumed the audience could work out that Brett and Dallas were turning into eggs.
Yes, but a future director or somebody could completely erase that idea and replace it with a new one like the alien was turning them into space jockey babies. A dumb idea, probably, but an idea that could still be implemented in the future due to lack of real, hard evidence of what was really going on. Our assumptions don't matter, it's what it can be that really counts.
There is no assumptions about what's going on. They're turning into eggs. And since no future director has changed that - they're STILL turning into eggs.
I think, though I'm not too sure, the bodies in AvP Jaguar were turning into eggs as well, but they didn't have facehuggers, they had full grown adults or extra lives or whatever.
As SM has said, that is a game; not canon. It's like the Kenner toys.
Quite. Canon or not is neither here nor there. It's simply game mechanics.
Ripley wasn't running around Fiorina with guns saving coccooned prisoners, nor was Fiorina heaving with Aliens - yet the Alien3 platformer and Alien3 The Gun showed us these things.
Yeah, about these alternate games. I like to see each movie, novelization, comic book adaptaion, and even game as a possible telling of said story. It's kind of like hearing accounts from witnesses, some descriptions may vary incredulously from others and it's up to the police, but in our case; the fans, to determine what is most likely to be the actual depiction of what happened in that story.
I'm not sure how that statement is relevant (or sensical).
How is it not relevant?
Maybe it was, but it didn't really make sense.
It's my way of adapting the discrepancies of the movies, books, and games; unless you've got a better idea? And don't say: Don't use EU material.
It's fairly well established on this site that the only true canon are the films; everything else is just interesting thoughts or scenarios (although it is my hope that A:CM will be the first non-film media to be considered true canon).
When I first became an AvP fan, I thought all material was canon to the franchise, however I soon became enlightened and discovered that the community has established that the films are the only true canon, not any of the media related to the franchise. I, then, started following that path, somewhat (everybody else was doing it and I believed at the time that the opinion of the community counted a lot), until I discovered that some community members have even banned A:R and the AvP films from their own canon. To me that went against everything the community and I (to a lesser extent) believed in; everything I got from this site and sites like this indicate that the movies are the ultimate source of canon. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that the fans don't have the authority to determine what is or is not canon to the franchise. Therefore, community beliefs aside, there is no reason not to consider this EU material as legit.
QuoteAnd don't say: Don't use EU material.
Why not? It's the simplest thing to do. The films are what happened and the comics, novels, video games and other stuff are all "What ifs" Several different "What ifs?" because they don't share a continuity with each other, let alone the films they're based on. Fox doesn't care about one all encompassing continuity so why should we?
QuoteMaybe it was, but it didn't really make sense.
Maybe because no one ever saw Ripley running around Fiorina rescuing hived baldy prisoners wielding superior firepower against myriad Aliens.
Never mind the rainbow Aliens that inhabit the Konami game.
Or the Kenner comics in which ever main character was previously, kind of, dead.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 05, 2010, 04:13:15 AM
When I first became an AvP fan, I thought all material was canon to the franchise, however I soon became enlightened and discovered that the community has established that the films are the only true canon, not any of the media related to the franchise. I, then, started following that path, somewhat (everybody else was doing it and I believed at the time that the opinion of the community counted a lot), until I discovered that some community members have even banned A:R and the AvP films from their own canon. To me that went against everything the community and I (to a lesser extent) believed in; everything I got from this site and sites like this indicate that the movies are the ultimate source of canon. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that the fans don't have the authority to determine what is or is not canon to the franchise. Therefore, community beliefs aside, there is no reason not to consider this EU material as legit.
Except that they often contradict each other. And the films.
About the intellect, Wasn't the original ending of alien, for it to headbite Ripley, then use her voice to get back to earth? they changed that ending, but they still sprinkled its intellectual abilities in the movie.
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Jun 05, 2010, 04:17:18 AM
Except that they often contradict each other. And the films.
I said earlier, those contradicitons can all be retconed into a single continuity.
Quote from: Abhunter on Jun 05, 2010, 05:58:39 AM
About the intellect, Wasn't the original ending of alien, for it to headbite Ripley, then use her voice to get back to earth? they changed that ending, but they still sprinkled its intellectual abilities in the movie.
Perhaps, but since no adaptations of the movie ever showed it, I don't think we can use that as canon. How did they sprinkile its intellectual abilities in the movie?
Quote from: SiL on Jun 04, 2010, 10:30:00 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 04, 2010, 10:26:07 PM
Also, I hate to rain on your parade SiL, but there is one survivor of an alien headbite in the movies. Verheiden was headbitten
No he wasn't.
We see the Alien lunge for him. There's no sign he was headbitten, such as having a gaping hole in his head.
I rewatched that segment, the alien did headbite him.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 05, 2010, 04:13:15 AM
When I first became an AvP fan, I thought all material was canon to the franchise, however I soon became enlightened and discovered that the community has established that the films are the only true canon, not any of the media related to the franchise. I, then, started following that path, somewhat (everybody else was doing it and I believed at the time that the opinion of the community counted a lot), until I discovered that some community members have even banned A:R and the AvP films from their own canon. To me that went against everything the community and I (to a lesser extent) believed in; everything I got from this site and sites like this indicate that the movies are the ultimate source of canon. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that the fans don't have the authority to determine what is or is not canon to the franchise. Therefore, community beliefs aside, there is no reason not to consider this EU material as legit.
DP. While some fans do exclude the
AVP films ( the majority don't ) noone excludes
A:R. And its established that the films are the only true canon.
Also , DP , even author Steven Perry who co - wrote
Prey said that the films come first. I.E. if he writes something in one of his Alien novels but an Alien film contridicts this the film gets the final say.
DP what your saying is that if I wrote a story called
Aliens: Darkness which had aliens turning into black spots you'd take it as Canon?
So far, everything from the books can match up with the movies. I would only take your Aliens: Darkness as canon if you got it published officially from one of the sources of AvP material like Fox and Dark Horse. However, they have stringent rules over what can be done and what can't be done for the sake of continuity so good luck with that. Btw why do you keep calling me DP?
*pops head through the thread door and reads the pages hes missed. leaves again. shuts door*
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fright-thoughts.us%2Fimages%2Fuploads%2Fnot_this_shit_again.jpg&hash=1dbae8733ccfdd22e18dd341940dee8c50a3f859)
You Double Posted. ;D
Sorry though I wasn't trying to be mean. :)
lol this thread got way of subject
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 05, 2010, 03:08:14 PM
So far, everything from the books can match up with the movies. I would only take your Aliens: Darkness as canon if you got it published officially from one of the sources of AvP material like Fox and Dark Horse. However, they have stringent rules over what can be done and what can't be done for the sake of continuity so good luck with that. Btw why do you keep calling me DP?
And what if FOX approves book about Aliens shitting strewberry jelly that predators adore with Ellen Ripley in it as greedy head of W-Y corporation that is selling jelly to predators in exchange for technology? Would that also fit into canon?
Quote from: Abhunter on Jun 05, 2010, 05:58:39 AM
About the intellect, Wasn't the original ending of alien, for it to headbite Ripley, then use her voice to get back to earth? they changed that ending, but they still sprinkled its intellectual abilities in the movie.
To be fair, Riddles was drunk when he said that. :D
Quote from: Master on Jun 05, 2010, 04:00:46 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 05, 2010, 03:08:14 PM
So far, everything from the books can match up with the movies. I would only take your Aliens: Darkness as canon if you got it published officially from one of the sources of AvP material like Fox and Dark Horse. However, they have stringent rules over what can be done and what can't be done for the sake of continuity so good luck with that. Btw why do you keep calling me DP?
And what if FOX approves book about Aliens shitting strewberry jelly that predators adore with Ellen Ripley in it as greedy head of W-Y corporation that is selling jelly to predators in exchange for technology? Would that also fit into canon?
For me, it would. However, do you think it really is likely that Fox would approve of something like that in the first place?
They approved AvP-r ::)
Quote from: Master on Jun 05, 2010, 08:36:03 PM
They approved AvP-r ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji-cT58rgNc
AVPR didn't completely destroy continuity as much as many people here think. You're, however, deliberately trying to destroy it to make a point.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 05, 2010, 01:35:42 PM
I rewatched that segment, the alien did headbite him.
Its jaw comes out and it lowers out of frame.
There is no sign that he was headbitten. There is no hole in his head. There is no blood. There is literally
nothing but one poor choice of close-up to indicate he was physically harmed in any way.
Quote from: Abhunter on Jun 05, 2010, 05:58:39 AM
Wasn't the original ending of alien, for it to headbite Ripley, then use her voice to get back to earth?
No, never. Ridley Scott thought up the idea after a few drinks; the movie was always scripted, and always planned, to end with the Alien getting blasted out the shuttle door.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 05, 2010, 03:08:14 PM
So far, everything from the books can match up with the movies.
No, they can't.
Alien Resurrection flat-out says they don't happen.
Alien³ made the original comic series not happen.
Steve Perry's dates in his first Alien novel are way, way out of whack with the movies'. There are so many contradictions between the movies and
other novels that no-one with even half an understanding of the material covered in the expanded universe bothers saying it all fits fine.
I actually liked the idea of Predalien implantation, but it seemed to be out of place with this movie. If the movie had gone in the tone of "Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2" or "Return of the Living Dead", it would've been ok, i guess.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 05, 2010, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 05, 2010, 03:08:14 PM
So far, everything from the books can match up with the movies.
No, they can't.
Alien Resurrection flat-out says they don't happen.
Alien³ made the original comic series not happen.
Steve Perry's dates in his first Alien novel are way, way out of whack with the movies'. There are so many contradictions between the movies and other novels that no-one with even half an understanding of the material covered in the expanded universe bothers saying it all fits fine.
I don't include the original Aliens comics, just the remastered versions. I already explained how to solve the discrepancies between EU and A:R. As for the movie novelizations, I like to think of all the different adaptations including the movie, books, and games as different versions of the same story. It's like interviewing witnesses, sometimes their stories will vary drastically, we just have to figure out which parts can be believed.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 06, 2010, 08:59:32 PM
I don't include the original Aliens comics, just the remastered versions.
AR said they didn't happen, end sentence.
Perry's dates are from his novel versions
of the comics, which are 'remastered'. They're still wrong.
AR didn't say nothing happened, everything can be retconned in. And my bad, I thought when I was typing my last post that Steve Perry did the movie novelizations. My mistake. Either way, his work can still be retconned in whether you like it or not.
A:R did say nothing happened, in that it said nothing had happened regarding the Alien since the events of Fury 161.
I think I've already explained to you how to retcon that in.
Now try and explain it with a straight face.
The A:R novel supports the film by saying there'd be no contact since Fiorina. Nothing about 'big deletions' and other nonsense.
Yes, nothing on record. Any further records could have been erased or hidden by WY or Loki (organization in Original Sin that works alongside the space jockeys whose deals often involved theft, slavery, or murder). Things could have been limited to a need-to-know basis.
Doesn't basic canon only matter to the individual? So what is the point of ignoring the topic to debate it? :-\
What do you mean "ignoring the topic to debate it"?
Ignoring the topic to debate what is canon.
Oh, ok. Well in answer to your question, we were on topic until the conversation sort of...evolved into the state where it is now. I started using literature to defend my position on the validity of how the predalien was a junior queen and I drew up on the EU resources and that's why we're in the position that we are in right now. Some members debated the validity of my sources and therefore my information, I vouched for them and we began debating whether or not we should consider any and all EU material as canon.
Thing is, Aliens and Alien3 contradict the sources you're trying to use, and the films trump all else.
Tell me these contradictions. I've been able to retcon in all dicrepancies so far.
But that's an invalid argument. Simply making excuses (or "retcons") isn't enough; the films are the only true source of canon when discussing the films.
That argument is made solely by the community. There are some people in this community that have even excluded the AVP films from it. Therefore, I think the only intel that we can take as canon are those that come directly from the source; all media produced officially for the franchise.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 07, 2010, 04:41:54 AM
I think the only intel that we can take as canon are those that come directly from the source; all media produced officially for the franchise.
Yay, cannon! (http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kzt6o5BDo01qa1o5zo1_500.jpg) :P
QuoteTherefore, I think the only intel that we can take as canon are those that come directly from the source
Yep. The films.
Please Read!
This topic seems to have evolved, but I'll give my opinion.
A few people here said why the f**k does the predalien reproduce like that? It contradicts what has been set up from the previous films.
My opinion is that maybe Predators reproduce like that. Maybe predators reproduce through the mouth. And the predalien is doing it because it is a quicker way of reproducing as it cuts out the egg and the face hugger part of it all. We all know that the alien will pick up traits of its host, so perhaps the alien embryo in the predator picked up this certain trait relating to reproduction.
You don't see normal Aliens running around with penises having sex with hosts.
So no.
I get what you mean there.
But lets not rule out the possibility that its a trait taken from the Predators. Maybe reproduction through the mouth was more compatible with the Alien method of reproduction than human reproduction is.
Seeing as aliens embed embryos though the mouth and (for arguments sake) if predators breed through the mouth then these methods were similar enough that an alien embryo was able to take this trait onboard.
I know most people will disagree but its just a thought I have had for a while and am hopefull to see other peoples views on it.
I'm new here btw so hi everyone. ;)
Or if we accept egg morphing as canon, than Chet was making a mini hive until they egg morphed an egg to make the Queen..... Just throwing a random theory out there.
I was thinking along the same lines as you, samoht. However, I think it's more likely that the predalien is a junior queen. In literature, it's somewhat hinted (but not verfied) that their reproductive organs or where our reproductive organs are.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 07, 2010, 03:09:15 PM
I was thinking along the same lines as you, samoht. However, I think it's more likely that the predalien is a junior queen. In literature, it's somewhat hinted (but not verfied) that their reproductive organs or where our reproductive organs are.
no, the pred alien is what it is: a Predator-alien hybrid, the implantation was only made for an attempt to make a "
diffrent" adaptation an alien have, come on people, you have to be literal, there is no detail from any other film that any alien can do this, scott, james and the other dierectors didn't know the brothers would make that, so why do people keep on using support from previous alien films, they just made it to be there, there is no gigantic explaination how, they just shoved it in there to make something else "gruesome" in the movie thats it.
This reproduction method is certainly not something covered in the general Alien Reproduction method. I think it is some kind of mutation or failed attempt at evolution. Ya know, in the novel Relic, one of the characters, Dr. Frock, talks about his theory about evolution and mass extinctions, what he calls the Callisto Effect. This Callisto Effect proceeds like this more or less: at a certain point, in a determinate population of a species, appears an abomination, different from his regular kind, that with mating with normal individuals will create a new mutated generation that is no more than the next step of the Evolution of that species, and be the likely cause of competition with another.
The Predalien shown in AvPR could be one of those Abominations, and her "sons" the next stage of the Alien evolution, even if it doesn't really seem so. :P
Another possibility that I thought of while reading these posts is that perhaps the predators' alterations to the alien species somehow caused this mutation (egg-barfing).
QuoteAXP: And touching on the reproduction; can you elaborate at all on what's been dubbed the 'regurgitation' method of reproduction the Predalien uses?
Greg: Yeah, the regurgitation... I touched on this a bit at the L.A. comic convention a couple weeks ago. Regurgitation is improper semantics. Regurgitation meaning you eat something, and then digest it partially, and then spit it back up. I think a more accurate way of describing the Predalien reproductive cycle is that the Predalien has a method of impregnating people with an egg. And it doesn't involve regurgitation. Regurgitation would just be the wrong term. But there's definitely a delivery mechanism that I don't want to give away, that the Predalien can inject people with eggs.
AXP: So this is a full embryo, next stage is chestbursting?
Greg: Yes. And we don't really know how Predators reproduce, so we have license how to define some Predator aspect to this. It's partially Predator DNA that allows this reproductive method.
AXP: So this might not necessarily be new canon for the entire species, but rather Predalien specific?
Greg: Yeah, I mean, it would imply something for reproduction amongst Predators, but again, it doesn't set it in stone because who knows how much of it got changed to deal with the fact that there's Alien DNA mixed in there.
and
QuoteAlso, as originally scripted, it was just pregnant women as PredAlien prey, and then as we were cutting the movie, we decided to revise that -- that's why we added the homeless woman who wasn't pregnant getting attacked -- because if they're all pregnant -- it's going to be so convenient -- it's going to be a plot convenience. So we said, we have to loose that subplot. -- so we just basically re-wrote that after we shot the movie.
There was also an idea to have the "hive" in the sewer actually have like twenty or thirty bodies -- a lot more homeless than in the theatrical version -- that were all impregnated. But then again, it was a cut back situation, we were told -- "you can afford two..!" -- so two it is...!
and
QuoteAXP: There's been many on the net who've voiced how they liked the turn on convention where you had the elements like pregnant ladies and a kid with chestbursters coming out...
Colin: That's longer too -- the female burstings -- there's like twice as many shots now... of where pregnant women "blow up."
AXP: Did you get any flak for that?
Colin: The studio loved all that! It was actually their idea...!
AXP: How about on the Internet?
Colin: Actually -- there was a few threads that I read where some said: "They went too far...!" -- to me, it was like, you know what...? -- normal people... pregnant women should die... especially with Aliens coming to a f*ck'n small town. We've always seen (in the previous movies) -- marines, colonists, and all of these other people... it's gotta be the people that you don't see in those movies taken -- kids, pregnant women, babies -- in hospitals, maternity wards -- those are the people that you have to see die -- because otherwise, there's been like eight movies now...
AXP: ... the thing that I like too with what you did there with the ward is that -- there have been a lot of situations in movies where... say with Michael Myers in "Halloween 2" where he walks by the ward (in the hospital) -- but nothing happens. So it's kind of like a tease that doesn't pay off... and in this situation -- the PredAlien is looking at the babies... and you're thinking... oh well, maybe that's just it... and they're going to go on with the story... but then literally when he or she... actually... is the PredAlien "officially" a he or she...?
Colin: She...
AXP: ... when she goes in and stands before the pregnant woman -- and then clamps onto her face and begins pumping down the chestbursters... it's really horrific... it was like... wow -- they did take it a step further... and I know that a lot of people liked that -- that it really played against convention... and many a time in horror movies there can be moments where a sequence in a film "steps up to the plate..." -- but then "steps back from the plate" in terms of a pay off...
Colin: -- and that's why we also face hugged a kid and we face hugged an old guy -- that was part of the same type of idea. We've seen it all so many times... that's the only problem with these AVP movies -- is that, so much has already been done -- and it's been done so well. If you do the exact same thing, then everyone just says that you offered nothing new, so the idea was that if we're going to do something, we might as well just break some conventions. I mean otherwise, literally... it's going to be the same stuff.
Say for instance, the way Jesse was killed was a cool thing... but "Chet" with the babies was probably one of my most favorite scenes in the movie... and it almost got cut there in the end... they (Fox) were like -- "Oh... is that maybe too much...?" -- and we were like: Please -- for the the love of God -- don't take away that scene...! That is literally my most favorite scene in the whole movie... it really makes everyone feel uncomfortable.
The Strauses would f**k their mother for shocks. For being allegedly big Cameron fans, they didn't listen to his advice on terror and gore. Gore is disgust, and disgusting your audience is a far cry from terrifying them.
I appreciated the fact that the Strause bros went against convention.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 07, 2010, 06:19:39 PM
I appreciated the fact that the Strausse bros wenta against convention.
Anyone can go against convention. I can walk the streets naked to go against convention. Going against the norm was not stated as their intentions, one of the Strauses is quoted as saying, 'logic is good, but sometimes you have to go for the cool' (paraphrase, regarding the PredAlien's locks). Their intention seems to be to go with whatever they find 'cool' or 'awesome', not to be trailblazers.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 07, 2010, 08:07:32 AM
You don't see normal Aliens running around with penises having sex with hosts.
So no.
Not until Species 2 anyway :P
I don't think what's considered to be cool should overpower what's logical in this sci-fi franchise. But I can still retcon in what the Strause bros did in AVPR.
Quel surprise.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 07, 2010, 07:42:45 PM
I don't think what's considered to be cool should overpower what's logical in this sci-fi franchise.
That is why you fail. 99% of this franchise is based on Cool > Logic.
Eh?
The series has always had a big degree of internal logic. But this has eroded over time until we end up with the shit we get in AvP:Poo.
QuoteThe series has always had a big degree of internal logic.
Until either of the titular monsters show up.
???
That's why I said "internal logic". They lay out rules and stick to them. At first anyway.
That's because even the mightiest oak is one day felled by the winds of awesome.
Still...everything can still be retconned in by me. ;D ;D ;D
And we'll always be here to stop you. 8)
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 07, 2010, 07:18:49 PM
one of the Strauses is quoted as saying, 'logic is good, but sometimes you have to go for the cool' (paraphrase, regarding the PredAlien's locks)
So basically, the BS's existence is just a giant "
cool story bro"
Quote from: Spaghetti on Jun 08, 2010, 01:41:53 AM
And we'll always be here to stop you. 8)
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 07, 2010, 07:18:49 PM
one of the Strauses is quoted as saying, 'logic is good, but sometimes you have to go for the cool' (paraphrase, regarding the PredAlien's locks)
So basically, the BS's existence is just a giant "cool story bro"
Not necessarily, the predaliens in the games and comics had them. Perhaps, the Strause bros didn't want to deviate from the design. I commend them for that. Since I take the EU material to be canon, it may have caused a problem if there were any discrepancies between the films and the EU material. Btw, in response to the first sentence...no matter how many times you push me down, I'll always get back up.
How terrible for you.
EU material is canon. You're still in denial.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 08, 2010, 01:28:42 AM
Still...everything can still be retconned in by me. ;D ;D ;D
And here's proof of you doing just that. (http://alienlovespredator.com/2010/06/02/cash-cab-time-machine/)
^_^
:D
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 08, 2010, 02:38:41 AM
EU material is canon. You're still in denial.
When you're discussing the films on this site, no. No it's not. Perhaps you should look for another site that views all sources equally.
Not all sources are created equal.
QuoteEU material is canon. You're still in denial.
If everyone says 'no', and you're the only one saying 'yes', maybe it's time to take the hint.
EU is just that EU.
Noone , even Steve Perry the author of Prey , thinks Eu is canon. Even there is a problem with EU i.e. it goes against something established in the films then the film wins.
Eu isn't canon. Thats like saying filler characters in anime that aren't in the Manga are real. They didn't come from the original source.
Next Fan Fiction published by Dark Horse will be canon if we go by your logic!
Eu?
Ah, ok, I understand now. I would consider canon (and with canon I mean part of the same continuity as the films) only the films themselves. Just sayin'
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jun 08, 2010, 01:22:14 PM
Ah, ok, I understand now. I would consider canon (and with canon I mean part of the same continuity as the films) only the films themselves. Just sayin'
Same. And there's a lot of potential for EU stuff to contradict movies and other EU stuff. This ain't Star Wars! :P
For Example, I think there are books and books which portray the Predators in a whole lot different ways. Some even change sex... ???
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jun 08, 2010, 02:14:06 PM
For Example, I think there are books and books which portray the Predators in a whole lot different ways. Some even change sex... ???
...transvestite Predators?... :o
The horror!
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 08, 2010, 02:16:34 PM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jun 08, 2010, 02:14:06 PM
For Example, I think there are books and books which portray the Predators in a whole lot different ways. Some even change sex... ???
...transvestite Predators?... :o
NIGHTMARE FUEL D= D= D=
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jun 08, 2010, 02:19:19 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 08, 2010, 02:16:34 PM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jun 08, 2010, 02:14:06 PM
For Example, I think there are books and books which portray the Predators in a whole lot different ways. Some even change sex... ???
...transvestite Predators?... :o
NIGHTMARE FUEL D= D= D=
Funny, because those predators laugh at us; exclaiming how pathetic we are that we don't change sexes and saying that we live only "half a life".
At least we are coherent! Hish, u fools!
I`m going to throw up on this "every thin is canon" guy... Seriously I`m about to do that :-\
Turn away and throw up on your narrow-mindedness. ;D
Quote from: Master on Jun 08, 2010, 02:53:33 PM
I`m going to throw up on this "every thin is canon" guy... Seriously I`m about to do that :-\
I believe the term you are looking for is "canon slut".
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Jun 08, 2010, 04:53:45 PM
Quote from: Master on Jun 08, 2010, 02:53:33 PM
I`m going to throw up on this "every thin is canon" guy... Seriously I`m about to do that :-\
I believe the term you are looking for is "canon slut".
Scr*w you, wh0re.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 08, 2010, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: Noir-Gojira on Jun 08, 2010, 04:53:45 PM
Quote from: Master on Jun 08, 2010, 02:53:33 PM
I`m going to throw up on this "every thin is canon" guy... Seriously I`m about to do that :-\
I believe the term you are looking for is "canon slut".
Scr*w you, wh0re.
Or maybe "I found wrong forum" guy???
Very humorous. All right, let's move on from the "Everyone pick on predxeno time", that is...if we can. :(
We can.. if we must that is... ;)
Well his arguement has no validity.
But I respect him enough to say lets end this. On to the original topic ... Why do you hate it ... Whats wrong with it.
( I can't say the title of the topic or i'll bes struck down.)
As a guy who got into allot of the A/P comics I can understand where he's coming from. But trying to force the EU into movie canon, when it obviously contradicts the movies and itself is futile. But can I respect that someone can have that much passion to try to make everything coherent.
If were having a discussion on Alien and predator and you trying to talk about Hish crap or an armless cricket super queen on the Alien home-world where pink dolphin lizards are the Aliens natural enemies, no one is going to take you seriously. Defending the AVP:R(ectum) reproduction method doesn't help either.
/\/\ That`s the point... Though you didn`t have too make us remember pink dolphin lizards.... :-X
What pink dolphin lizards?
Theory of Alien Propagation.
For shaaaaaaame.
Oh, ok thanks. Just so you guys know. I do consider that to be canon, but before you give any rebuttals I just want to say: Keyword "Theory" by Orona.
Theory in the scientific sense means accepted model, however.
Quote from: The PredBen on Jun 08, 2010, 06:35:28 PM
Well his arguement has no validity.
But I respect him enough to say lets end this. On to the original topic ... Why do you hate it ... Whats wrong with it.
( I can't say the title of the topic or i'll bes struck down.)
Quote from: SpaceMarines on May 29, 2010, 05:06:19 AM
About the thread: The scene was pointless, extravagant, spat in the eye of existing continuity, nonsensical, juvenile... shall I go on?
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Jun 08, 2010, 09:48:58 PM
Theory in the scientific sense means accepted model, however.
Yes, that comic only depicts a model of what the alien homeworld
may be like, it doesn't show with absolute certainty that that is what life is like on the homeworld.
Okay, I see now. Hypothesis would be the better word then.
Okay my final say on this " Are EU comics ect canon"
Okay. Lets say in the Alien Prequels it states that Xenomorphs evovled from parasitic Beetles. Then in some EU comic series it states Aliens evolved from Birds who is right?
The films. Here is just an example of why the Eu couldn't work with the Film universe.
Also most EU contridicts eachother. Yautja from the AVP series have gender's whereas the ones from Forever Midnight don't.
Numerous other Eu don't mention genders one way or the other.
A way to retcon your first argument in is that perhaps the Predators weren't so wrong as Machiko thought in the AVP comic series. Maybe simultaneous convergent evolution did create the aliens. The aliens could be the ultimate cleansor once a population has exceeded its limit, kind of like how the human population is becoming on Earth. Also, I can make the same argument about EU finally being referenced to in the movies. As for the predators, there are differences in genders between the yautja and the hish. It just isn't said whether or not yautja can change sexes as well as the hish.
It is established in the AVP comics/novels that Yautja have gender. Seperate genders in which you are born into.
In Forever Midnight it states that Predators are transgender throughout their lives.
The hish of Forever Midnight still recognize the genders or at least the change in bodily reproductive functions.
EDIT: On a side-note, wouldn't it be interesting if we could change genders naturally as well? Note: If we could naturally change genders, then we wouldn't hold any disgust towards the process so leave that mental reaction at the door. I wonder what I would look like as a girl. One thing that could happen as a result of this is that we'll see more gay couples around since one week both may be the same gender and at another week they may be different. How would our social lives be affected? How would our personalities be affected with the change since I believe that there's a difference between males and females of the human species (I think females are more outgoing than males).
I think that discussion deserves a thread of its own.
Really?
No, but I'd rather not have this one go even more off-topic. (I know, that is incredibly hypocritical. :P)
Quite. ;D
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Jun 09, 2010, 02:26:34 AM
I think that discussion deserves a thread of its own.
Good point, I was thinking about that. I'll put it in the General AvP section?
I don't. I think its great.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 09, 2010, 01:58:45 AM
The hish of Forever Midnight still recognize the genders or at least the change in bodily reproductive functions.
Please.
Take this shite to the literature section.
Where it belongs.
Ah. Thanks for your support.
The whole Yautja/Hish is merely of the novels,comics, etc.
It's not like in Aliens where they called the creature actually a "Xenomorph", that there's a scene where for example Keyes says... "that's a Hish"... it sounds so stupid and silly... I hate it.
I can accept the "Yautja" thing because many fans have taken over that name when they talk about the predator, so I'm cool with that.
But Hish and the crap about their gland making them angry... so utter bullshit
and the gender thing... don't get me started about that.
Sorry for going off-topic here I just read the last entries and at some point I lost it.
This thread isn't going to go back on topic.
Never the less , PredXeno or someoneelse , please post a topic about " Are Comics ect Canon" In General A/P area.
It'll be a fun talk.
I think people hate the implantation method because it messed with accepted theories of Alien biolodgy.
More like it's completely dumb because it cuts out one important aspect of the lifecycle.
I guess I was proven wrong.
Quote from: SM on Jun 09, 2010, 11:37:21 PM
More like it's completely dumb because it cuts out one important aspect of the lifecycle.
You mean the eggs right? (ps PredBen I did that on purpose ;))
* Chuckles *
Life in June.
Eggs and huggers. Might as well have had the PredAlien (may its name be forever cursed) just f**k the woman. Just as cheap and lazy, but would've made more sense biologically.
The main point was to get more Aliens in the movie. Unlike the first treatment where the Aliens just popped up and said "look we're here". Personally I didn't like it nor hate it.
Quote from: The PredBen on Jun 09, 2010, 11:31:29 PM
This thread isn't going to go back on topic.
Never the less , PredXeno or someoneelse , please post a topic about " Are Comics ect Canon" In General A/P area.
It'll be a fun talk.
It's done.
QuoteThe main point was to get more Aliens in the movie. Unlike the first treatment where the Aliens just popped up and said "look we're here". Personally I didn't like it nor hate it.
If the PredAlien (may its name be forever cursed) was in fact, as is claimed, a Queen - there's your "more Aliens" right there. No need to cheap, lazy and altogether uncreative writing.
I'm not following you.
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on Jun 10, 2010, 12:43:23 AM
I'm not following you.
She would poop eggs out her backside. No need for barfing embryos.
I couldn't have put it more eloquently.
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 10, 2010, 12:51:39 AM
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on Jun 10, 2010, 12:43:23 AM
I'm not following you.
She would poop eggs out her backside. No need for barfing embryos.
Yes she would. That has been addressed, the reason was that she would have a small hive to proctect her before she began birthing eggs.
Why? She had two protectors. All she'd need to do is find somewhere warm to hole up until she's ready to start producing.
On top of that it was a prime opportunity to reintroduce egg morphing to create more Aliens, which was more well known thanks to the Alien DC and DVD releases.
Quote from: SM on Jun 10, 2010, 12:52:01 AM
I couldn't have put it more eloquently.
It's 2am. No time for poetry! :P
There's ALWAYS time for poetry. ;D
Quote from: SM on Jun 10, 2010, 01:00:51 AM
There's ALWAYS time for poetry. ;D
*Opens Rimbaud*
Ahhhh :P
Quote from: SM on Jun 10, 2010, 12:59:14 AM
Why? She had two protectors. All she'd need to do is find somewhere warm to hole up until she's ready to start producing.
On top of that it was a prime opportunity to reintroduce egg morphing to create more Aliens, which was more well known thanks to the Alien DC and DVD releases.
There is absolutely never, EVER a good time for egg morphing.
I don't really dig egg morphing... but if I have to choose either that or spitting embryos down a pregnant woman's throat so they can eat the foetus before exploding out of her gut... then I'll go for the egg morphing.
Quote from: #6.0 on Jun 10, 2010, 01:08:37 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 10, 2010, 12:59:14 AM
Why? She had two protectors. All she'd need to do is find somewhere warm to hole up until she's ready to start producing.
On top of that it was a prime opportunity to reintroduce egg morphing to create more Aliens, which was more well known thanks to the Alien DC and DVD releases.
There is absolutely never, EVER a good time for egg morphing.
Only one drone, but no Queen? EGGMORPHING. It'll get a Queen embryo nice and ready, and perhaps even a few protectors to boot.
No, no, NO!!
Egg barfing is ever so popular and universally accepted, nay EMBRACED!
Egg morfin = teh gay.
Quote from: SM on Jun 10, 2010, 01:16:32 AM
No, no, NO!!
Egg barfing is ever so popular and universally accepted, nay EMBRACED!
Egg morfin = teh gay.
When you have Aliens that look like:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi104.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm191%2FIzzys88%2Fpicture024-4.jpg&hash=cf0bb355d375d158130630ff67bbdca56a2c251d)
What can you expect from these people? :P
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 10, 2010, 01:18:28 AM
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m191/Izzys88/picture024-4.jpg
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.getprice.com.au%2Fimages%2Fuploadimg%2F1277%2F350_1410.jpg&hash=fb8b1342f6aa32ebc09a688cfa2ca253528e45a4)
Quote from: Valaquen on Jun 10, 2010, 01:18:28 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 10, 2010, 01:16:32 AM
No, no, NO!!
Egg barfing is ever so popular and universally accepted, nay EMBRACED!
Egg morfin = teh gay.
When you have Aliens that look like:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m191/Izzys88/picture024-4.jpg
What can you expect from these people? :P
Ugh! Dude! Bit of warning next time!!! :-X
Quote from: SM on Jun 10, 2010, 01:16:32 AM
Egg morfin = teh gay.
10000% agreed.
Egg morphing is inefficient.
Two hosts for one Drone? come on.
That's why it's only used if there's no Queen.
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Jun 10, 2010, 03:30:41 AM
That's why it's only used if there's no Queen.
No, A FEW drones have the potential to molt and take her place.
Quote from: #6.0 on Jun 10, 2010, 03:29:20 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 10, 2010, 01:16:32 AM
Egg morfin = teh gay.
10000% agreed.
Egg morphing is inefficient.
Two hosts for one Drone? come on.
Spoken like someone who doesn't understand the potential of the concept.
Quote from: SM on Jun 10, 2010, 03:33:55 AM
Quote from: #6.0 on Jun 10, 2010, 03:29:20 AM
Quote from: SM on Jun 10, 2010, 01:16:32 AM
Egg morfin = teh gay.
10000% agreed.
Egg morphing is inefficient.
Two hosts for one Drone? come on.
Spoken like someone who doesn't understand the potential of the concept.
Im still on ur side, but enlighten me SM. ::)
I'd be wasting my time.
It would be more efficient if the aliens can turn humans into the alien adult form like in AVP Jaguar.
It'd be almost as lame as egg barfing though.
No wait - it'd be lamer.
I except,
Certain Drones can undergo metamorphosis, under going molts from Drone, to Praetorian, to Queen, with some in between. While in the Praetorian stage, it can implant embryos directly into the host. Once a hive has been set up, the final molt begins, and it become a stationary Queen.
Then 1 of 4 different types of eggs are birthed. If the queen dies, one of the few with molting potential will begin the process again.
Quote from: #6.0 on Jun 10, 2010, 03:33:10 AM
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Jun 10, 2010, 03:30:41 AM
That's why it's only used if there's no Queen.
No, A FEW drones have the potential to molt and take her place.
No, they don't, as shown in both
Aliens, Alien3, and
Alien:Resurrection. A Queen can only be formed by a facehugger carrying a Queen embryo.
Not according to EU material. On a side-note; what do you guys think of the franchise revealing an additional growth step after the queen?
When was it seen in AR or Aliens?
Normally I would say no, but that embryo did have legs.....
But also AVP and AVPR beg to differ.
That from of the life cycle is what i would like to see, but they are movies, they are BOUND to have inconsistencies. As the atmosphere, director, and genre change, so do designs and ideas. that's movies.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 10, 2010, 03:48:22 AM
Not according to EU material.
When films and EU clash, the films win.
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 10, 2010, 03:48:22 AM
Not according to EU material. On a side-note; what do you guys think of the franchise revealing an additional growth step after the queen?
NO. PERIOD.
No f**king empress, no king, no egg morphing, no direct transformation, no body bursters, no bullshit.
*looks at last page* Your calling Chet a fullgrown Queen ??? *looks at this page* You guys make the same argument over and over *looks up at predxeno* That would be dumb.
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Jun 10, 2010, 03:52:48 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 10, 2010, 03:48:22 AM
Not according to EU material.
When films and EU clash, the films win.
No, I'm suggesting that the EU material can be retconned into a single continuity that goes hand-in-hand with the films.
Quote from: PredalienXenomorph on Jun 10, 2010, 03:55:03 AM
*looks at last page* Your calling Chet a fullgrown Queen ???
I never called Chet that, I've always referred to her as "junior queen."
Not you the guy that said Chet could poop out eggs.
Yeah, Pre-Queen sounds better. I didn't want to use Praetorian cause Chet looks nothing like them.
Because
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.deviantart.com%2Fdownload%2F154751913%2FPraetorian_Alien_AvP3_Skin_by_GRIDALIEN.jpg&hash=3d808a6218d8bc1db69c81eaf8922e0c2090fdbe)
that noggin looks nothing like
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.predatorstuff.com%2Fgallery%2Fimages%2Fpredatorstuff%2Fhybrid_predalien%2Fpredalien_dan_02.jpg&hash=bf053940c1c9b66f3d8aa6c0a5d8da09267edd0f)
that one.
QuoteNo f**king empress, no king, no egg morphing, no direct transformation, no body bursters, no bullshit.
No f**kin' ice CREAM!!!
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 10, 2010, 03:56:17 AM
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Jun 10, 2010, 03:52:48 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jun 10, 2010, 03:48:22 AM
Not according to EU material.
When films and EU clash, the films win.
No, I'm suggesting that the EU material can be retconned into a single continuity that goes hand-in-hand with the films.
'Cept that both 3 and Res show quite conclusively that drones don't morph into Queens, what with the whole Queenburster thing.
And if the Queen dies we can resort to egg morphing to create a new one (which has some basis in the films) - and if one doesn't care for egg morphing; no more eggs. Too bad for the Aliens. They aren't all powerful.
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Jun 10, 2010, 04:20:44 AM
'Cept that both 3 and Res show quite conclusively that drones don't morph into Queens, what with the whole Queenburster thing.
I believe it only showed that queens can be born from queenbursters. It doesn't disprove that alien drones can evolve into queens.
The original not changing into a Queen would though.
Not to be a stickler to anyone, but Cameron did say the Queen came from a molted Alien drone:
An immature female, one of the first to emerge from hosts, grows to become a new queen, while males become drones or warriors. Subsequent female larvae remain dormant or are killed by males... or biochemically sense that a queen exists and change into males to limit waste. The Queen locates a nesting spot (the warmth of the atmosphere station heat exchanger level being perfect for egg incubation) and becomes sedentary. She is then tended by the males as her abdomen swells into a distended egg sac. The drones and warriors also secrete a resinous building material to line the structure, creating niches in which they may lie dormant when food supplies and/or hosts for further reproduction become depleted (i.e. when all the colonists are used up). They are discovered in this condition by the troopers, but quickly emerge when new hosts present themselves.
Of course, Alien3 seems to take a different route in its assembly cut, with a super facehugger (granted there is another inconsistency - the s. facehugger is discovered with the ox, and the regular facehugger impregnates Ripley on the Sulaco with a Queen.) Big bloody mess, all this malarkey.
Quotebut Cameron did say the Queen came from a molted Alien drone:
He didn't really say that in that quote you posted. It could be interpreted that way but also note...
Subsequent female larvae remain dormant or are killed by males... or biochemically sense that a queen exists and change into males to limit waste1) He's talking about "males" and "females" which most people don't apply to Aliens. At least not in the traditional sense.
2) His use of "or" would indicate he hasn't given it a great deal of thought.
Quote from: SM on Jun 10, 2010, 04:50:46 AM
Quotebut Cameron did say the Queen came from a molted Alien drone:
He didn't really say that in that quote you posted. It could be interpreted that way but also note...
Subsequent female larvae remain dormant or are killed by males... or biochemically sense that a queen exists and change into males to limit waste
1) He's talking about "males" and "females" which most people don't apply to Aliens. At least not in the traditional sense.
2) His use of "or" would indicate he hasn't given it a great deal of thought.
I think he's using male and female in terms of who reproduces, and who doesn't, not in a boy/girl sense. I don't think that 'or' means he hasn't given it thought: larvae are either killed or they may become drones rather than rival Queens. It's pretty plain what he's saying. For Cameron's film, his explanation makes perfect sense. For the rest of the series - ha, it won't make sense. All the movies have been made by different people, at different times, wanting different interpretations of the life-cycle.
He gave it enough thought as it applied to his film. ie. He posed the question of 'Who's laying these eggs?' and gave us an answer inorder to have a big climax. And used insectoid life cycles by way of explanation.
However, yes as you said it doesn't apply to the films that followed. So as far as we know what happend to Ripley in Alien3 happened to someone at Hadley.
I just watched AVPR again, (Shocking, I KNOW!) and Chet impregnates the people in the sewer as well, You just cant tell as easy.
Quote from: Abhunter on Jun 10, 2010, 05:51:12 AM
I just watched AVPR again, (Shocking, I KNOW!) and Chet impregnates the people in the sewer as well, You just cant tell as easy.
Huggers get 2 dudes.
Chithead does something to old lady bum.
yeah, im pretty sure he impregnated her, because of the number of aliens when wolf is down there. This throws the "Impregnating only pregnant ladies" idea out the window. While it opens up a new one, Why chet only impregnated women, but maybe this idea is also false, because maybe chet impregnated or got other people, we just didnt see it on screen.
The predalien didn't impregnate the female slum. There were six facehuggers aboard the pred ship that went down. One got shot and killed by the human hunter, two impregnated the hunter and his child, two got the male slums, the last one presumably died in the crash. That makes a total of four aliens with chet in the sewers and that's exactly the amount that Wolf fights. The predalien was originally going to impregnate the female slum, but the Strause bros said that that would make all the predalien's victims by pregnant women and they didn't want to do that. So, if you look closely enought, I believe the predalien headbites the female slum and then some other stuff happens.
but, then that doesnt explain how all these other aliens got there so fast. like the one in the school, or in the power plant
Bad writing/plot convenience
I was thinking about that, too. I was going to make a thread about it, but didn't. Either the predalien found other pregnant women in the town to impregnate or it can impregnate nonpregnant people which it did in the town. Note: Only two aliens are seen escaping the sewers with Chet. The other two were killed by the Wolf Predator.
About infecting the pregnant:
QuoteAXP: -- and it was indigenous... right? -- how the PredAlien only chose victims that were pregnant...
Colin: Originally... yeah. We had actually finished PredAlien "vision" shots. We designed this whole thing of what an Alien would see -- and he was looking in the fetus and actually saw the fetus and everything in there.
...
Also, as originally scripted, it was just pregnant women as PredAlien prey, and then as we were cutting the movie, we decided to revise that -- that's why we added the homeless woman who wasn't pregnant getting attacked -- because if they're all pregnant -- it's going to be so convenient -- it's going to be a plot convenience. So we said, we have to loose that subplot. -- so we just basically re-wrote that after we shot the movie.
I would be nice to see the predalien vision shots. I want to see what she sees when she looks at a pregnant woman.
Funny how the PredAlien (etc.) has four adults to help it and they still put in some f**ktardedly redundant bullshit like egg barfing.
I think he can impregnate anyone, just that the pregnant women had more food for embryos, and were easy prey.
How do they have more food for embryos?
Quote from: SM on Jun 11, 2010, 12:11:07 AM
How do they have more food for embryos?
Ufff I bet you will get a sick sick answer :-[
I'd prefer one that made sense, but I suspect you're right.
Quote from: SM on Jun 11, 2010, 12:11:07 AM
How do they have more food for embryos?
Everything in the uterus much?
So you don't have one that makes any sense?
Quote from: SM on Jun 11, 2010, 01:17:42 AM
So you don't have one that makes any sense?
How does that not make sense?
There's no extra nutrients from a fetus, as all the nutrients there would just be in the mother otherwise.
Bursters don't eat with their mouths. They leech from their host. Baby wouldn't help much, like SpaceMarines said.
its sustenance, organic material, also the nutrient filled placenta would qualify as nutrients. The "perfect organism" should be able to use anything/everything useful, i would say the fetus also counts. and they cant eat to much of the host itself, they might risk the death of the host before the chestburster is developed. So the fetus and placenta is extra, possible of supporting multiple chestbursters successfully.
Chewing the insides of the mother to get to the foetus is going to kill her long before they're ready to burst.
I know the baby isn't really born yet, but does anyone know whether or not he/she could feel the chestbursters picking it apart? What would he/she be thinking or reacting to this?
Chewing? Perhaps. Absorption? I doubt it. It would not occur that fast. Also we dont know the time gap between the face rape and burst.
What does it all mean?????
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.declarepeace.org.uk%2Fcaptain%2Fmurder_inc%2Fsite%2Fpics%2FConfusion.jpg&hash=1110e07db097f31e1900ff0b4ebdacea0a8b8ccc)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmanti.no.sapo.pt%2Fmy-brain-hurts.jpg&hash=b48423108f9f0594a9560fcbc9d7ec42380719ac)
QuoteI know the baby isn't really born yet, but does anyone know whether or not he/she could feel the chestbursters picking it apart?
Yes if she was close to full term. Which I think she is.
QuoteWhat would he/she be thinking or reacting to this?
Nothing much.
QuoteAbsorption? I doubt it.
What "absorbtion"? The burster(s) are absorbing the human foetus? How?
Quote from: SM on Jun 11, 2010, 01:56:51 AM
http://manti.no.sapo.pt/my-brain-hurts.jpg
QuoteI know the baby isn't really born yet, but does anyone know whether or not he/she could feel the chestbursters picking it apart?
Yes if she was close to full term. Which I think she is.
QuoteWhat would he/she be thinking or reacting to this?
Nothing much.
QuoteAbsorption? I doubt it.
What "absorbtion"? The burster(s) are absorbing the human foetus? How?
They aren't absorbing the foetus. They are absorbing nutrients from the mother.
If that's the case, what happens to the fetus?
Out of curiosity, what do you guys think happened to the babies in the maternity ward? I know they're probably gone...(trails off ominously) but does anyone have any thoughts to the details of their, let's say; disappearance?
They were ate alive from the Predalien.
Or they simply went boom when the nuke hit the town.
I kinda doubt that they lasted until the nuke.
Who knows? It's AvPR after all. XD
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jun 11, 2010, 03:03:17 PM
They were ate alive from the Predalien.
Or they simply went boom when the nuke hit the town.
Eaten alive by the predalien?
They would have been eaten by the aliens.
Quote from: #6.0 on Jun 12, 2010, 01:09:14 AM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jun 11, 2010, 03:03:17 PM
They were ate alive from the Predalien.
Or they simply went boom when the nuke hit the town.
Eaten alive by the predalien?
Yup.
It's a random explanation for a random movie after all.
It could have happened, or it may not have. Im not bothered either way.
Because it's shocked their young teenager's mind
As some of you may know I watched again AvPR some days ago. Now, I've noted something weird while this specific scene:
The Predalien's inner jaw passes through the Woman's lips in a weird way, almost like the CGI shot was badly synchronized with the real one. I'm practically sure about this because I freezeframed.
Has anyone got frame-to-frame shots of the scene to prove what I am saying?
This was one of those scenes that was meant to shock but I could have done without it as was mentioned by previous people. It was stupid, goes against what we know about the Aliens whole cycle, ect..
Not everyone thinks its stupid. I thought it was good.
Me, :) too.
I am not the only one.........
I thought it was an intresting concept but it really wasn't shot that well. How it could be referred to as a pred trait boggles me. Also i don't get why pregnant women why not just any women. Also if it was a pred queen shouldnt it have molted soon after it was born a few hours i guess im not an expert here.(i'm guessing people have gone over theses points multiple times). I read earlier in the post about it showing up in future games and books, it might be good if done right maybe like a first person headbite in avp(2010). To be honest i doubt will ever see it again.
Quote from: samoht on Jun 23, 2010, 08:37:57 AM
Not everyone thinks its stupid. I thought it was good.
i do 2.
Well there's 4 of you on my sh*t list, any more takers??? ;D
They shall be... corrected.
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Jul 04, 2010, 07:17:20 PM
They shall be... corrected.
I always thought the concept was kinda of cool but not for an AvP movie. It just contradicts way to much of the mythos for the aliens. If it would've been a different movie I'd probably like it better.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Jul 04, 2010, 08:05:54 PM
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Jul 04, 2010, 07:17:20 PM
They shall be... corrected.
I always thought the concept was kinda of cool but not for an AvP movie. It just contradicts way to much of the mythos for the aliens. If it would've been a different movie I'd probably like it better.
Why so?
...
Because that's not how Aliens procreate perhaps...?
Cause it's kinda gross and horrifying, but yet...somewhat cool. ;D