http://io9.com/5525820/the-classic-alien-wont-appear-in-ridley-scotts-prequels-at-all (http://io9.com/5525820/the-classic-alien-wont-appear-in-ridley-scotts-prequels-at-all)
Watcha think lads...and ladettes?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthehelplessdancer.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F04%2Fdark-side-of-the-moon.jpg&hash=c462286f23046a14835cff1f8af5994ca78442fd)
Sweet!!
Ahem - I'll judge when it comes out.
And there go my hopes of a natural occurring organism..
:'(
That's just the same ol' interview, with the same ol' misinterpretation. Let me put it like this -
HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT REDESIGNING OR REMOVING THE ACTUAL ALIEN.
GOD.
f**kING.
DAMMIT.
SHUT DOWN THE f**kING INTERNET, I CAN'T TAKE THIS MUCH LONGER. LEARN TO COMPREHEND WHAT YOU READ. MOTHER. f**kERS.
Gosh.
i know how you feel. ridley just said that what leads up to the facehugger will be different. i think he is refering to the lifecycle: e.g. egg morphing. also the alien may look different due to to different host but otherwise its not gonna be anything huge.
Quote from: Mus on Apr 28, 2010, 01:36:45 PM
That's just the same ol' interview, with the same ol' misinterpretation. Let me put it like this -
HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT REDESIGNING OR REMOVING THE ACTUAL ALIEN.
GOD.
f**kING.
DAMMIT.
SHUT DOWN THE f**kING INTERNET, I CAN'T TAKE THIS MUCH LONGER. LEARN TO COMPREHEND WHAT YOU READ. MOTHER. f**kERS.
Gosh.
By now, about fifteen percent of my replies must be about that. Gawd.
Quote from: Mus on Apr 28, 2010, 01:36:45 PM
HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT REDESIGNING OR REMOVING THE ACTUAL ALIEN.
GOD.
f**kING.
DAMMIT.
SHUT DOWN THE f**kING INTERNET, I CAN'T TAKE THIS MUCH LONGER. LEARN TO COMPREHEND WHAT YOU READ. MOTHER. f**kERS.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.pictureshunt.com%2Fpics%2Fs%2Fsamuel_l_jackson_pulp_fiction-11581.jpg&hash=1867906c088747edd960bd2e964d5d3b44fc76d9)
Quite positive he only said he was thinking of re-designing the early stages. Whatever that meant.
If this is true, it could work out really well. It could l be nothing like any of the other movies, in a good way.
Quote from: Mus on Apr 28, 2010, 02:22:04 PM
By now, about fifteen percent of my replies must be about that. Gawd.
I'd say 100% ;D
Im with you though
He means to say that we are going to see how the Aliens became what they are,... Its pretty obvious that they are being bred to assist the SJ's in terraforming. I MEAN we all read this stuff in THE UNMENTIONABLE script.
The answer is waving around in front of you....
The man is NOT going to show us the ALIEN life cycle in a PREquel to one of the most influential classic SCI FI films of all time because that film would be worthless if you knew what the ALIEN's lifecycle was when you saw it.
Ive said this countless times and no one is willing to consider the weight of it. He cannot make this movie and reveal the Alien lifecycle as we know it. Not only is it run dry, as he said, but it will ruin his masterpiece. No one with a head on their shoulders would do that to there MOST influential creation.
Look at the HARVEST script, draft or not, that is what he means. Not necessarily the SMALLER versions, but the ORIGIN of what the ALIEN is, is what he means. That will be a new design.
Nothing is certain but death, taxes and Politikon pushing the Harvest script as being legit.
Quote from: SM on Apr 29, 2010, 03:19:24 AM
Nothing is certain but death, taxes and Politikon pushing the Harvest script as being legit.
Haha. What can I say, I trust my instincts.
Plus it just seems to answer all these questions. Consider what we have on this forum right now. Here, we have everyone debating what Ridley mean when he says...x, y and z. And yet, if you just plug in the Harvest script, Ridley makes complete sense. It's pretty uncanny.
Quote from: SM on Apr 29, 2010, 03:19:24 AM
Nothing is certain but death, taxes and Politikon pushing the Harvest script as being legit.
LMAO!!!
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 29, 2010, 03:49:03 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 29, 2010, 03:19:24 AM
Nothing is certain but death, taxes and Politikon pushing the Harvest script as being legit.
Haha. What can I say, I trust my instincts.
Plus it just seems to answer all these questions. Consider what we have on this forum right now. Here, we have everyone debating what Ridley mean when he says...x, y and z. And yet, if you just plug in the Harvest script, Ridley makes complete sense. It's pretty uncanny.
You remind me of someone on another forum, he was similarly convinced he held the absolute truth on a subject. Eventually he just got stranger and stranger, dude started talking about people having invicible antennas on their heads, receiving transmissions from somewhere but simply ignoring this because the truth about... whatever is too much to handle. Apparently iPods play some role in the kidnapping of our conscience.
Please don't let this happen to you.
I miss gameoverman too :(
I have heard stories of the one you call gameoverman. He sounds like an interesting fellow.
Legendary, even.
I had a look at his replies. Pretty standard NWO stuff. Though, the underground slave cities helping the elite to become interstellar demi-gods with the help of technological advances was new to me.
Quote from: Mus on Apr 29, 2010, 01:05:23 PM
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 29, 2010, 03:49:03 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 29, 2010, 03:19:24 AM
Nothing is certain but death, taxes and Politikon pushing the Harvest script as being legit.
Haha. What can I say, I trust my instincts.
Plus it just seems to answer all these questions. Consider what we have on this forum right now. Here, we have everyone debating what Ridley mean when he says...x, y and z. And yet, if you just plug in the Harvest script, Ridley makes complete sense. It's pretty uncanny.
You remind me of someone on another forum, he was similarly convinced he held the absolute truth on a subject. Eventually he just got stranger and stranger, dude started talking about people having invicible antennas on their heads, receiving transmissions from somewhere but simply ignoring this because the truth about... whatever is too much to handle. Apparently iPods play some role in the kidnapping of our conscience.
Please don't let this happen to you.
Uh...What?... the hell are YOU talking about?
iPods do what?
Im not COMPLETELY convinced. I'm just acknowledging that all signs point to 'YES' and maybe also implying that it's easy for me to admit the signs point to yes, because I liked that script.
But for instance...Shit! I certainly hope they changed the whole ANTS part! That BS needed work.
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 29, 2010, 09:26:25 PM
Quote from: Mus on Apr 29, 2010, 01:05:23 PM
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 29, 2010, 03:49:03 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 29, 2010, 03:19:24 AM
Nothing is certain but death, taxes and Politikon pushing the Harvest script as being legit.
Haha. What can I say, I trust my instincts.
Plus it just seems to answer all these questions. Consider what we have on this forum right now. Here, we have everyone debating what Ridley mean when he says...x, y and z. And yet, if you just plug in the Harvest script, Ridley makes complete sense. It's pretty uncanny.
You remind me of someone on another forum, he was similarly convinced he held the absolute truth on a subject. Eventually he just got stranger and stranger, dude started talking about people having invicible antennas on their heads, receiving transmissions from somewhere but simply ignoring this because the truth about... whatever is too much to handle. Apparently iPods play some role in the kidnapping of our conscience.
Please don't let this happen to you.
Uh...What?... the hell are YOU talking about?
iPods do what?
Im not COMPLETELY convinced. I'm just acknowledging that all signs point to 'YES' and maybe also implying that it's easy for me to admit the signs point to yes, because I liked that script.
But for instance...Shit! I certainly hope they changed the whole ANTS part! That BS needed work.
I liked most of the script , but i have to say as time goes on and you look at it from a distance, It's made up from a blend of fan ideas, Ridley Scott ideas and probable ideas.
You have to ask your self, would a prequel likely include the Space Jockey species?, would it include links to LV426?, would it include a different version of the Xenos? would it include the Derelict? The answer is a resounding - Yes it would. Throw in a few main characters and a different ship and you've got Harvest. The guy has just gelled it together well.
I personally think with the success of Avatar, Scott is going to create a whole new world, laden with different species and controlled by the Space Jockey race, and somewhere along the line humans get involved. I just can't see the need for 3D otherwise.
Quote from: TJ Doc on Apr 29, 2010, 04:28:37 PM
I have heard stories of the one you call gameoverman. He sounds like an interesting fellow.
Legendary, even.
He was a
mod here. :P
My god... that I did not know.
Ah, good times...
Hang on - no they weren't!
He wasn't a tyrant, was he?
Depends who you ask.
Quote from: Highland on Apr 29, 2010, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 29, 2010, 09:26:25 PM
Quote from: Mus on Apr 29, 2010, 01:05:23 PM
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 29, 2010, 03:49:03 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 29, 2010, 03:19:24 AM
Nothing is certain but death, taxes and Politikon pushing the Harvest script as being legit.
Haha. What can I say, I trust my instincts.
Plus it just seems to answer all these questions. Consider what we have on this forum right now. Here, we have everyone debating what Ridley mean when he says...x, y and z. And yet, if you just plug in the Harvest script, Ridley makes complete sense. It's pretty uncanny.
You remind me of someone on another forum, he was similarly convinced he held the absolute truth on a subject. Eventually he just got stranger and stranger, dude started talking about people having invicible antennas on their heads, receiving transmissions from somewhere but simply ignoring this because the truth about... whatever is too much to handle. Apparently iPods play some role in the kidnapping of our conscience.
Please don't let this happen to you.
Uh...What?... the hell are YOU talking about?
iPods do what?
Im not COMPLETELY convinced. I'm just acknowledging that all signs point to 'YES' and maybe also implying that it's easy for me to admit the signs point to yes, because I liked that script.
But for instance...Shit! I certainly hope they changed the whole ANTS part! That BS needed work.
I liked most of the script , but i have to say as time goes on and you look at it from a distance, It's made up from a blend of fan ideas, Ridley Scott ideas and probable ideas.
You have to ask your self, would a prequel likely include the Space Jockey species?, would it include links to LV426?, would it include a different version of the Xenos? would it include the Derelict? The answer is a resounding - Yes it would. Throw in a few main characters and a different ship and you've got Harvest. The guy has just gelled it together well.
I personally think with the success of Avatar, Scott is going to create a whole new world, laden with different species and controlled by the Space Jockey race, and somewhere along the line humans get involved. I just can't see the need for 3D otherwise.
I see it the same way. This seems to be more than a horror sy fy movie. Like Scott said, he has to out do Cameron's aliens.
^ You brought up a great point. Cameron's Aliens are in a way a totally different kind of creature as opposed to Scott's Alien. It will be intresting to see how the 2 compare in the upcoming films.
Quote from: Highland on Apr 29, 2010, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 29, 2010, 09:26:25 PM
Quote from: Mus on Apr 29, 2010, 01:05:23 PM
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 29, 2010, 03:49:03 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 29, 2010, 03:19:24 AM
Nothing is certain but death, taxes and Politikon pushing the Harvest script as being legit.
Haha. What can I say, I trust my instincts.
Plus it just seems to answer all these questions. Consider what we have on this forum right now. Here, we have everyone debating what Ridley mean when he says...x, y and z. And yet, if you just plug in the Harvest script, Ridley makes complete sense. It's pretty uncanny.
You remind me of someone on another forum, he was similarly convinced he held the absolute truth on a subject. Eventually he just got stranger and stranger, dude started talking about people having invicible antennas on their heads, receiving transmissions from somewhere but simply ignoring this because the truth about... whatever is too much to handle. Apparently iPods play some role in the kidnapping of our conscience.
Please don't let this happen to you.
Uh...What?... the hell are YOU talking about?
iPods do what?
Im not COMPLETELY convinced. I'm just acknowledging that all signs point to 'YES' and maybe also implying that it's easy for me to admit the signs point to yes, because I liked that script.
But for instance...Shit! I certainly hope they changed the whole ANTS part! That BS needed work.
I liked most of the script , but i have to say as time goes on and you look at it from a distance, It's made up from a blend of fan ideas, Ridley Scott ideas and probable ideas.
You have to ask your self, would a prequel likely include the Space Jockey species?, would it include links to LV426?, would it include a different version of the Xenos? would it include the Derelict? The answer is a resounding - Yes it would. Throw in a few main characters and a different ship and you've got Harvest. The guy has just gelled it together well.
I personally think with the success of Avatar, Scott is going to create a whole new world, laden with different species and controlled by the Space Jockey race, and somewhere along the line humans get involved. I just can't see the need for 3D otherwise.
I guess, but the similarities I was referring to were the ones that aren't wjat you listed. The ones you listed were fairly obvious choices but all the things Scott has detailed thus far regarding the prequel fit in with the HARVEST script. All of them. There's not one thing he's mentioned that isn't supported by HARVEST, save for minute details like the mentioning of Zeta 2 Reticuli.... But then again, that also relates to the script.
His quotes on redesign fit in the script
His timeline fits the script
His mythical interpretations of the material fit the script
His description of the Aliens being used NOT only to terraform but to wipe clean and seed planets fits the script
In fact that one in particular is peculiar because in the HARVEST script AT FIRST we think they use them to terraform and then we realize they use them to wipe out life on other planets... It's what he mentions exactly and is a very big coincidence, not at all like the easily deduced things you mentioned.
His vague enigmatic comments about the inclusion of the original alien fit the script
The subject of terraforming and the biological engineering
Its not just the SJ's and the location and the
It just goes on and on....
Every last thing this guy has said can be related to that material...and I only think its a DRAFT.
...now look what you've done...
Quote from: XenoVC on Apr 29, 2010, 11:22:11 PM
Quote from: TJ Doc on Apr 29, 2010, 04:28:37 PM
I have heard stories of the one you call gameoverman. He sounds like an interesting fellow.
Legendary, even.
He was a mod here. :P
Sounds like that GAMEOVERMAN was a Paranoid Schizophrenic!
Completely forgot about that guy. What happened?
Didn't he post here fairly not so long ago? I think I've seen post here, and I joined like fairly not so long ago.
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 30, 2010, 06:04:40 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 30, 2010, 05:51:58 AM
...now look what you've done...
?
But your kind of proving my point, yes they fit in the script, because they came first, not after. Scotts idea about wiping the Planet was from the Commentary wasn't it? and the redesign is a no Brainer, of course it's going to be redesigned, it's a new movie, that's how it goes.
If it were the other way round, i could see your logic, like if he called them "growers" now AFTER we know about the script, that's a big indication that it's the real deal. ( not to my knowledge did he ever call them that, could be wrong but you see my point?)
Or if the name Arrow Head (or whatever that ship was called) comes up or another crew etc etc.
You could take what Scott's said now and put it in almost any fan fic and it'll fit, its that vague.
(sorry SM!! :D)
Edit - The Harvest script had 2 things going for it which reeled me in - The timing was perfect and the quality was a step ahead.
An article talking about Giger's Alien, and they have a screenshot of the Newborn? ...
Quote from: Highland on May 01, 2010, 08:50:58 AM
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 30, 2010, 06:04:40 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 30, 2010, 05:51:58 AM
...now look what you've done...
?
But your kind of proving my point, yes they fit in the script, because they came first, not after. Scotts idea about wiping the Planet was from the Commentary wasn't it? and the redesign is a no Brainer, of course it's going to be redesigned, it's a new movie, that's how it goes.
If it were the other way round, i could see your logic, like if he called them "growers" now AFTER we know about the script, that's a big indication that it's the real deal. ( not to my knowledge did he ever call them that, could be wrong but you see my point?)
Or if the name Arrow Head (or whatever that ship was called) comes up or another crew etc etc.
You could take what Scott's said now and put it in almost any fan fic and it'll fit, its that vague.
(sorry SM!! :D)
Edit - The Harvest script had 2 things going for it which reeled me in - The timing was perfect and the quality was a step ahead.
Yes, and no.
You are being too doubtful and you're still operating under the assumption that I have MADE UP MY MIND.
You also keep telling me how this story should have come up in ANY OLD FAN FIC, and yet I have yet to ever hear of any fan-fic (unless the script proves to be such) that fit this description in any way....and I've seen and heard lots of ALIEN fan fiction.
The title of the thing is a possibility though....'HARVEST' WAS a book...
Aside from that, I just think you're being a little to savy with the coincidences, ESPECIALLY the way SCOTT describes they BIO ENGINEERING but really they are wiping out....As I've mentioned, this is almost nerve-rackingly coincidental. It doesn't matter that he had previously mentioned those details separately.... It's too fishy.... Think about it some.
There are so few Alien fan scripts, though - and of them, Harvest is one of (if not the) only prequels.
Fan stories have used Scott's ideas for ages - Bio-engineered Aliens to clear out planets, etc.
I like the script for ALIN: TH RTURN the best of them all, SiL.
Really hope the alien redesign is similar to the unused ones Giger had done for Alien3... those were badass 8)
QuoteI like the script for ALIN: TH RTURN the best of them all, SM.
Easily.
I think it is easily the best written, the most intelligent, the best plotted, with deeply rooted themes and undertones, sympathetic, well-rounded characters and equal mixes humour, horror, action, and implied rape.
I give it twenty stars.
Out of five.
You'll get an Oscar for sure.
I'm following it up with the slightly disappointing sequel, Alien 6: Return Hard.
Quote from: SiL on May 03, 2010, 02:03:26 AM
I'm following it up with the slightly disappointing sequel, Alien 6: Return Hard.
After reading this script, I have shamefully but wholeheartedly changed my mind. THIS is most certainly the REAL script for the ALIEN PREQUEL.
Quote from: SiL on May 02, 2010, 12:31:05 AM
There are so few Alien fan scripts, though - and of them, Harvest is one of (if not the) only prequels.
Fan stories have used Scott's ideas for ages - Bio-engineered Aliens to clear out planets, etc.
As for these fan stories,
Are they really on the same par with the HARVEST author. If so please show me some of these sophisticated stories.
You have to just be logical about it.
In Detective work, rule #1 is always '99% of the time, the most obvious solution is usually THE answer.' The Butler did it, the boyfriend stole the wedding ring, your wife is cheating on you, 95% of 'fans' don't like the script with homosexuals, ant-sized aliens and SJ BBQ's, so there is only a 5% chance that it was actually written by a fan.
That may seem abrasive at first, but please take those odds into consideration for a moment. When I haven't liked a fan script it's almost always been because it lacked a certain sophistication and professionalism, that this script simply does not lack. Even when fan fiction is riddled with cool, good ideas...(IE: Someone mentioned a Female Synth Villianess should run Weyland Yutani on Earth...Good idea but NOT on the same scale as tying the ALIEN's biology to the way the SJ's don't understand the mating habits of humans and thus naively force human slaves into homo-sexual relations for purposes of procreation, all the while to make a larger political statement about Capitalism and enslavement within the Company..? = Not FAN FICTION).
Consider when you think about this that it's possible some of those things in the H script most didn't like, have changed by production BECAUSE fans won't like them.
So,
Here we have one of the only scripts for a Prequel to ALIEN that has ever popped up on the internet and fits in with everything Ridley has said about the Prequel, before AND after the script was commissioned. It is not some H.S. fanboy jargon but rather a sophisticated SCI-FI tale with a depth uncommon in fan-fiction. It is very well written and somewhat philosophical. It appears right around the time that would be logical if we were to believe we are now on the 4th draft. There were C+D letters. Ridley's interviews and details underscore the scripts content so far.
Yet, you are all citing these disjointed history of info as explanations to show how anyone could have randomly picked the necessary particular ingredients and come up with the same soup. To show how easily someone can gel all the right elements together at the right time, because there was demand, and all just to shed doubt upon the content and suggest that it is POSSIBLE that the script is NOT a draft, when the OBVIOUS assumption to make at this point is that the script is legit.
Politikon, I think that the fact that there is homosexual characters in the lead is the most telling that this is a fan script. There are not many studios that would make a movie with homosexuals in the lead. Sure there are movies out there that do that, but they are generally low budget (as i have checked they are bellow the 15 million mark, not enough for alien movie in this age) because the studios won't take the risk of having prejudices lowering the box office numbers. A studio makes a film for the masses, a fan makes a script, for himself. That explains the homosexuality in the script, for I do not think that fox would risk 60 to 80 million dollars on an alien movie for the reasons I just stated. Also, I think the Corporal sent the script to a critic, and the critic described it as amateurish, so I do not know why you keep saying that the script is well written or sophisticated, because that is not the thought of the critics out there. It may be sophisticated, but only on your eyes and others fans like you.
Quote from: Politikon on May 01, 2010, 11:30:46 PM
Quote from: Highland on May 01, 2010, 08:50:58 AM
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 30, 2010, 06:04:40 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 30, 2010, 05:51:58 AM
...now look what you've done...
?
But your kind of proving my point, yes they fit in the script, because they came first, not after. Scotts idea about wiping the Planet was from the Commentary wasn't it? and the redesign is a no Brainer, of course it's going to be redesigned, it's a new movie, that's how it goes.
If it were the other way round, i could see your logic, like if he called them "growers" now AFTER we know about the script, that's a big indication that it's the real deal. ( not to my knowledge did he ever call them that, could be wrong but you see my point?)
Or if the name Arrow Head (or whatever that ship was called) comes up or another crew etc etc.
You could take what Scott's said now and put it in almost any fan fic and it'll fit, its that vague.
(sorry SM!! :D)
Edit - The Harvest script had 2 things going for it which reeled me in - The timing was perfect and the quality was a step ahead.
Yes, and no.
You are being too doubtful and you're still operating under the assumption that I have MADE UP MY MIND.
You also keep telling me how this story should have come up in ANY OLD FAN FIC, and yet I have yet to ever hear of any fan-fic (unless the script proves to be such) that fit this description in any way....and I've seen and heard lots of ALIEN fan fiction.
The title of the thing is a possibility though....'HARVEST' WAS a book...
Aside from that, I just think you're being a little to savy with the coincidences, ESPECIALLY the way SCOTT describes they BIO ENGINEERING but really they are wiping out....As I've mentioned, this is almost nerve-rackingly coincidental. It doesn't matter that he had previously mentioned those details separately.... It's too fishy.... Think about it some.
Like I said, it was very well done. When scripts pop up on the internet it's not unfair to say that fans (or just internet buffs) suddenly think they onto some inside movie info that wouldn't otherwise be known making it very easy to get taken in. Couple that with the fact that the script pops up on AVP galaxy, makes it even easier to swallow.
Coincidences do happen, you can't just pop in "Alien Prequel script" in google and get THAT lucky. I mean the thing was just hanging around? usually a source would be involved or at least some kind of indication that it was a leak.
I do see your points, but the thing just seems to gel together with Alien TOO well. Given the fact that this might be 2 movies and also in 3D, the Harvest script doesn't fit with that criteria, not to me anyway.
Another question i'd be asking is, does this movie need to be made? i mean, really all we find out is how the ship crashes setting up the events in Alien. With that i'd have to ask - whats the point?
The more I find out about this film the more interested I am becoming. I actually like Scott's idea. When you sit back and think, why have the regular xeno in there and have people look at as simply another alien movie. I think his approach will be great and from what I gather, he seems to be re-designing things to keep AVP & AVPR cannon. Or am I mis-interrepting something.
Quote from: Federick Gonsa on May 03, 2010, 06:52:11 AM
Politikon, I think that the fact that there is homosexual characters in the lead is the most telling that this is a fan script. There are not many studios that would make a movie with homosexuals in the lead. Sure there are movies out there that do that, but they are generally low budget (as i have checked they are bellow the 15 million mark, not enough for alien movie in this age) because the studios won't take the risk of having prejudices lowering the box office numbers. A studio makes a film for the masses, a fan makes a script, for himself. That explains the homosexuality in the script, for I do not think that fox would risk 60 to 80 million dollars on an alien movie for the reasons I just stated. Also, I think the Corporal sent the script to a critic, and the critic described it as amateurish, so I do not know why you keep saying that the script is well written or sophisticated, because that is not the thought of the critics out there. It may be sophisticated, but only on your eyes and others fans like you.
2005:
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=brokebackmountain.htm
WON AN OSCAR. So did ALIEN.
Ridley Scott was about to make THE FOREVER WAR ( 20x the amount of homosexuality in that SCI FI story ).
1972:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliverance
(Read about it's reception)
1992:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Instinct
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna_sex
Lately, homosexual content is quite common in films. Even Hollywood films and Prime Time Television.
It is simply not true that including gays limits your earning potential. In fact, if anything, if they took the risk (WHICH I AGREE THEY WILL MOST LIKELY NOT TAKE IT), it will likely only garner attention, contriversy and crtitical acclaim if Ridley Scott did.
But once again, we're running in circles. Ive gone out of my way to state that as a draft, anything is likely to change.
The script was sent to what kind of critic? A script reading critic? A publisher?
I work in the entertainment industry. Film/TV I have worked in the writing dept. I have hundreds of professional scripts in my possession. Some of which it was my job to edit personally.
I COULD EASILY HAVE BEEN IN A POSITION TO LEAK THAT SCRIPT.
It does not in ANY WAY come across as amateurish. It is a sophisticated story, it was written by an adult/ professional. I cant believe that's even a doubt. It comes across as an early draft. Before it has been converted to a shooting script, or a let's get thinking draft.
I hadnt mentioned this before but it also reads as if there were budgets taken into consideration. It would not be THAT expensive to make.
When the guy who owned the email address on the script was contacted he said he wanted to be a professional writer.
It's like looking at Locusta's Alien models, and assuming they must be concept art cos they look so damned good. Some fans are just really, really good at what they do.
Quote from: LeighD on May 03, 2010, 01:25:42 PM
The more I find out about this film the more interested I am becoming. I actually like Scott's idea. When you sit back and think, why have the regular xeno in there and have people look at as simply another alien movie. I think his approach will be great and from what I gather, he seems to be re-designing things to keep AVP & AVPR canon. Or am I mis-interrepting something.
THANK YOU. Why is it that people all across the internet are asuming Ridley Scott suddenly stopped being talented? ??? Oh, right. George Lucas. I forgot.
Quote from: SiL on May 03, 2010, 10:10:34 PM
When the guy who owned the email address on the script was contacted he said he wanted to be a professional writer.
It's like looking at Locusta's Alien models, and assuming they must be concept art cos they look so damned good. Some fans are just really, really good at what they do.
Geez man. ALL I AM SAYING, is that right now, the odds are stacked in favor of this thing being legit. This could change at any moment.
And that guy you mentioned:
He emailed ME directly and his so-called story doesn't add up. He didn't say he tried to be a professional. He said he was a published writer who wrote the script and sent it to Scott Free in 2007.... He sent this to me AFTER the C+D letter.... Which (OF COURSE!) Must ALSO have been a fake! .. And that's just the tip things that doesn't add up in his story.
Any professional level writer would know this doesn't work. I have worked in the writing dept on Feature Films and TV AT THE GROUND LEVEL and the idea that someone who is a published author wouldn't know they wont even open a transcript is absurd. Aspiring or Professional. Unless he was aspiring as in dreaming and 13 years old.
Plus SCOTT FREE had nothing to do with an ALIEN PREQUEL at that time as AVP-R was around, so the idea that this guy wrote a SPEC TRANSCRIPT to send it to SCOTT FREE in hopes that it would be read....
Does that make any sense to anyone?
Quote from: Politikon on May 03, 2010, 08:03:47 PM
Ridley Scott was about to make THE FOREVER WAR ( 20x the amount of homosexuality in that SCI FI story ).
Gotta say, I'm looking forward to that film when it gets made.
Quote from: Politikon on May 03, 2010, 11:29:59 PM
He said he was a published writer
So why are you surprised it reads so well?
QuoteHe sent this to me AFTER the C+D letter.... Which (OF COURSE!) Must ALSO have been a fake!
Considering it was issued by a law firm which, ostensibly, doesn't exist - Although is named
awful close to a real one - yeah, it probably
was fake.
QuoteAny professional level writer would know this doesn't work.
You can be talented
and an idiot.
QuotePlus SCOTT FREE had nothing to do with an ALIEN PREQUEL at that time as AVP-R was around, so the idea that this guy wrote a SPEC TRANSCRIPT to send it to SCOTT FREE in hopes that it would be read....
Does that make any sense to anyone?
Sure does. Scott Free is Scott's production company - Send it there, it might get to him. Sure, there's no way it would work, but the thinking is sound.
He said he was a published writer
So why are you surprised it reads so well?
-IM NOT. IM SURPRISED YOU ALL THINK A SUCCESSFUL WRITER WITH LOTS 'O GRAND ARTISTIC MEANING IN HIS BRAIN, WOULD WASTE HIS TIME ON ELABORATE SILLY PLOTS TO THROW OFF ALIEN FANS....
He sent this to me AFTER the C+D letter.... Which (OF COURSE!) Must ALSO have been a fake!
Considering it was issued by a law firm which, ostensibly, doesn't exist - Although is named awful close to a real one - yeah, it probably was fake.
-ACTUALLY, THIS IS WHAT IT SAYS ''Keats, MacNeill & Willson LLP'... An 'LLP' isn't a lawfirm. It's a LIMITED LIABILITY PARTNERSHIP. A LIMITED PARTNERSHIP between 3 different lawyers who represent 3 different parties Who in this case all have a liability in this script's content. There would not be a law firm w/ this title because a LLP does not imply a law firm. You're right.
Any professional level writer would know this doesn't work.
You can be talented and an idiot.
Yes. A talented chef may very well be an idiot when it comes to managing a Pharmacy but the ODDS are he'd have at least a working knowledge of how to manage a restaurant. However it is POSSIBLE that someone could just completely overlook the confines of there chosen occupation, I suppose you're onto something there. Stick with that.
Plus SCOTT FREE had nothing to do with an ALIEN PREQUEL at that time as AVP-R was around, so the idea that this guy wrote a SPEC TRANSCRIPT to send it to SCOTT FREE in hopes that it would be read....
Does that make any sense to anyone?
Sure does. Scott Free is Scott's production company - Send it there, it might get to him. Sure, there's no way it would work, but the thinking is sound.
Sound, yes. But once again the odds favor the opposite of this. Especially considering that your reference is all heresay, based on evidence, I myself, have supplied. The simple fact is 4 scripts exist for this, the existence of the project is concrete, but all these arguments against the idea that the script is legit is based on nothing but theories. Whereas, there IS TANGIBLE EXISTING EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT'S LEGITIMACY and none of the contrary. Just the possibility.
If someone else presented you with a script called, HALLOWEEN 3, two months before you were told you someone was making HALLOWEEN 3 and provided proof and then listed all sorts of things in my film that match the content in your script...and then asked you to choose whether the script was legit or FAN FICTION....? What are the odds?
Maybe you feel too far removed from the reality of the project? 6 degrees of separation my friend, in most cases less than 6...
omg, this is just plain useless. It is like teaching science to a religious fanatic. David Bryan must be laughing his ass off at this debate.
Quote from: Federick Gonsa on May 04, 2010, 04:08:16 AM
omg, this is just plain useless. It is like teaching science to a religious fanatic. David Bryan must be laughing his ass off at this debate.
That's funny because I don't believe in Religion, and while I admire everyone's skepticism, I myself have retained the same. I'm skeptical but my arguments here is scientifically sound. There is NO contrary evidence to support it's illegitimacy. The opposing argument is not as likely as the evidence stacked in favor.
What's the point?
I mean by the time the films out, we'll know if the script was real or not. Yes?
Quote from: Politikon on May 04, 2010, 04:18:41 AM
Quote from: Federick Gonsa on May 04, 2010, 04:08:16 AM
omg, this is just plain useless. It is like teaching science to a religious fanatic. David Bryan must be laughing his ass off at this debate.
That's funny because I don't believe in Religion, and while I admire everyone's skepticism, I myself have retained the same. I'm skeptical but my arguments here is scientifically sound. There is NO contrary evidence to support it's illegitimacy. The opposing argument is not as likely as the evidence stacked in favor.
I never called you religious. It is a comparison/methaphor/ilustration, that one uses to make a point. I thought writers where able to distinguish that, specially those who have thousands of scripts in their possesion. Anyway, the evidence you have presented is not evidence at all. Your so called evidence is based on your own speculation, assumption, and what we call circumstancial evidence (and the way YOU [politikon] interpret it). I do not know where you live in but circumstancial evidence is not admited in court. So I would not use the terms "sound" and "evidence". Anyway politikon, I give up for the second time. You can't learn of evolution if you are '
convinced' that the world is 6,000 years old, and that there was an adam and eve, for that would be a waste of time (another comparison/methaphor/ilustration. get it? ;) ).
Quote from: SM on May 04, 2010, 04:22:55 AM
What's the point?
I mean by the time the films out, we'll know if the script was real or not. Yes?
You are absolutely right.
Actually, circumstantial evidence can be used in court, but I digress.
Quote from: SpaceMarines on May 04, 2010, 04:31:02 AM
Actually, circumstantial evidence can be used in court, but I digress.
It can be presented, but it is NOT enough to convict you, arrest you, or even issue a search warant. Again it all depends on where you live.
Quote from: SM on May 04, 2010, 04:22:55 AM
What's the point?
I mean by the time the films out, we'll know if the script was real or not. Yes?
We can find out at any time prior as well.
I just dont get why everyone is treating my statement that the odds are in favor of it being legit as if I were insisting it with 100% certainty.
Would it help if I used numbers?
Okay.
As of now, given what we know about the HARVEST script AND the info on the PREQUEL I can say with 85% certainty that the script seems is legit.
I think that AS OF NOW given the details....
If I had to place a bet, I would bet it was legit,...
but I am not stating that I BELIEVE it is legit.
I can say, that I wouldn't MIND the script because apart from some tweaking with the ANTS I LIKE IT A LOT.
BUT AT NO TIME HAVE I STATED 'THE SCRIPT IS REAL!!! THERE ARE NO TWO WAYS ABOUT IT'
And yet, I keep having to explain and explain as if thats what i were saying.
What I would really like is for some enthusiastic responses like, hypothetically someone might respond by adding, 'Oh Shit! I see what you're saying! I wonder if x might happen!" or
'Did you notice when Ridley said this, that x applies to that script as well....'
Given this attitude if the script ISN't REAL someone will claim I was wrong, but all Im saying is that AS OF NOW, with what we know, it DOES SEEM LIKE THERE IS A GOOD POSSIBILITY THAT IT IS REAL....
Next Rdley might reveal something that isn't in the script we read, and I might STILL question IF that fits in with HARVEST and could be a rewrite, or I might think. That settles it, the script isn't real.
But Im certainly not saying I am 100% certain that this thing is legit.
Im only 100% certain that with the current information, that odds appear greater in FAVOR of it being legit. That's all.
So I guess no one got the Alien reference then...
Sad.
I got it.
Cos I'm awesome.
Quote-IM NOT. IM SURPRISED YOU ALL THINK A SUCCESSFUL WRITER WITH LOTS 'O GRAND ARTISTIC MEANING IN HIS BRAIN,
Published =/= successful.
Your argument seems to hinge on talent being in any way related to overall intelligence or, to some extent, maturity.
QuoteYou can be talented and an idiot.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_sK30E2ONoTk%2FSaIaY9y9pJI%2FAAAAAAAAEto%2Fv4Qpve40xjw%2Fs400%2Ftom-cruise_1.jpg&hash=47aec4dd1dc3220896201410db2f0fca6f99a75d)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realbollywood.com%2Fnews%2Fup_images%2F11118645.jpg&hash=354761fd366d32bbbc8a7d44de9087d6bd97d199)
Politikon, you have NEVER stated that the harvest script is the REAL deal? You actually DID STATE it was LEGIT:
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 29, 2010, 04:17:24 AM
I would like to see the blue lights in the Prequel.
Oh yeah and ALIEN HARVEST was legit.
You wrote that in "new alien movie is prequel" thread started by dusk under important topics, i believ it is in page 24. Just saying.
Oh shit, he's begun using randomly capitalized words now. Like the fellow I talked about earlier. This is all too familiar.
...mortalhuman?
QuoteWhat's the point?
I mean by the time the films out, we'll know if the script was real or not. Yes?
This is the most sensible post on the whole authenticity debate yet - plus I enjoyed your Ash quote from Alien!
In the coming year(s) leading up to the prequel release, unless there is any reference whatsoever to:
Spoiler
Ant Aliens
Space Jockey mind controlled butt jockeys
Isotope tag nipple secretions
A starship called 'Arrowhead'
Jockeys refered to 'Growers'
Jockeys ship initially being a figure 8 shape
etc
...then Alien Harvest is NOT a draft, in no way a legitimate script by Spaihts, and not involved at all in the Alien Prequel story.
Quote from: SM on May 04, 2010, 04:22:55 AM
What's the point?
I mean by the time the films out, we'll know if the script was real or not. Yes?
I feel so stupid that I didn't notice this earlier. :(
Quote from: Mus on May 04, 2010, 11:47:15 AM
Oh shit, he's begun using randomly capitalized words now. Like the fellow I talked about earlier. This is all too familiar.
...mortalhuman?
:D its called parody lol
Quote from: Federick Gonsa on May 04, 2010, 08:43:31 AM
Politikon, you have NEVER stated that the harvest script is the REAL deal? You actually DID STATE it was LEGIT:
Quote from: Politikon on Apr 29, 2010, 04:17:24 AM
I would like to see the blue lights in the Prequel.
Oh yeah and ALIEN HARVEST was legit.
You wrote that in "new alien movie is prequel" thread started by dusk under important topics, i believ it is in page 24. Just saying.
Right because SARCASM is such an inappropriate response to that thread.
And I got the 'WHAT"S THE POINT...." Ash reference too.
Quote from: LeighD on May 03, 2010, 01:25:42 PM
he seems to be re-designing things to keep AVP & AVPR cannon. Or am I mis-interrepting something.
*vomits*
Where did you interpret this from?
Quote from: SiL on May 04, 2010, 07:50:37 AM
I got it.
Cos I'm awesome.
Quote-IM NOT. IM SURPRISED YOU ALL THINK A SUCCESSFUL WRITER WITH LOTS 'O GRAND ARTISTIC MEANING IN HIS BRAIN,
Published =/= successful.
Your argument seems to hinge on talent being in any way related to overall intelligence or, to some extent, maturity.
Nope. My arguments were never based around ANY absolutes. My argument was to point out that all of these/your assumptions are a lot LESS LIKELY. Yes, it's POSSIBLE that a silly teenage fan-boy with A LOT of talent and a passion for writing wrote that script and all faked all the rest of that mess....but it's far MORE LIKELY that someone as Creative, talented and disciplined as the Harvest author would know a thing or two about the writing business. I'm using a bit of Psychology, I suppose.... As I've said countless times, I was simply proposing that all the arguments against the script's legitimacy are far LESS LIKELY than the evidence in support.
But, if you really like arguing about it, suppose you tried proving the evidence wrong w/out or instead of apprehensively attacking my verbal skills.
I'd like to propose now, that all this apprehension to my suggestions and theory, would imply to any TALENTED and NON-IDIOTIC detective that you are all actually worried that this thing MIGHT BE REAL.
If you weren't you wouldn't care to keep this going.
Of course, the same can be said for me. I might be worried that its not real and I might be worried that they will, in fact, f**k up all the things that script thankfully does right (or just maybe it wont be anything like it and still wont f things up!), but I've been honest about those concerns and have been trying to start a certain investigative speculation. A MATURE one, perhaps. But this seems to make some of you uncomfortable.
I'm not pointing any fingers. You likely wont need my help.
Did I mention there are a bunch of people on IMDB who seem to think there's a good chance of this thing being legit as well....
No worries.
If and when they turn this thing into some watered down, namby-pamby rehash of what we've already seen, i suppose I might be equally as amused by your alleged bad taste. Wait, maybe if they do that the movie will be really awesome!
Please take the time to reminisce on the way I remained cordial while the rest of these people have done nothing but instigate and antagonize my current lack of restraint.
Think you might need to diversify your posts just a tad.
People's opinion in IMDB are the most reliable sources that can be brought up as evidence. The people at there are very civil and the site is excelently well monitored. IMDB is very reliable for it can be edited by anyone and it has never provided the internet comunity with wrong information. It has also never been the subject of pranks by non of the members. If you want to settle the matter, search there for information.
Now sarcasm aside, I admit politikon, you have been cordial and have not been mean spirited in your discussions. Thats something I admire in anyone. I just don't see your evidence as evidence at all. I see it as your own personal speculation and interpetation of information. But we can disagree and that is a good thing. My responses sometimes appear to be dickish, and they are, but they are not meant to demean you at all, so sorry if that is the way you take it.
Quote from: Federick Gonsa on May 05, 2010, 03:46:21 AM
People's opinion in IMDB are the most reliable sources that can be brought up as evidence. The people at there are very civil and the site is excelently well monitored. IMDB is very reliable for it can be edited by anyone and it has never provided the internet comunity with wrong information. It has also never been the subject of pranks by non of the members. If you want to settle the matter, search there for information.
Now sarcasm aside, I admit politikon, you have been cordial and have not been mean spirited in your discussions. Thats something I admire in anyone. I just don't see your evidence as evidence at all. I see it as your own personal speculation and interpetation of information. But we can disagree and that is a good thing. My responses sometimes appear to be dickish, and they are, but they are not meant to demean you at all, so sorry if that is the way you take it.
My own personal speculation and interpretation? Here we go again. When, have I ever said otherwise? When have I wholeheartedly turned out the phrase THE ALIEN HARVEST SCRIPT IS THE CORRECT SCRIPT FOR THE PREQUEL?
Right. Never. Certainly not in any serious way. Well given the current situation, my history on ALIEN forums, of having an unpopular opinion that turns out to hold up, the fact that you all seem to consistently return to tackle my posts, and my loss of patience with all of this, I will accept a sincere apology for various dick-ish behavior, and continue to run along and discuss these things with people who seem to be able to actually discuss them. Perhaps on IMDB, a place I'm more than familiar with the inner workings of...and where I could just as easily say, that even though it's somewhat open source, the majority of the time, the information on there is more than speculative (unless you're referring to people discussing things on forums).
Its sad to see that people were so bothered by this script that at no point on this forum have I seen anyone actually discuss the script in any mature critical way. Draft or not. I made the mistake of thinking people thought more about these things than what cool weapons the colonial marines should have, why newt and hicks die, and whether Egg Morphing is Canon. Yeah I should diversify my posts alright.
Yeah you should. So far it's all about 'Why I have so much evidence to suggest the script is real' and then whining and moaning when people think your talking crap.
Painting everyone with the same brush isn't really a good start though.
I didn't read the script on the off chance it was legit so can't comment, but I'm certain people like SiL and others who did, wouldn't trash the whole thing because of colonial marines, Hicks, Newt and egg morphing or lack thereof.
There wasn't really anything to discuss.
I didn't like the script. Well-written, sure, but I didn't like the ideas, the plot, the characters, the creatures, and it didn't seem to try to be scary. What more is there to say?
I did like the script, only for some personal preferences on what i think the prequel should contain.
But for the first time in AVP galaxy (ever?) , I'd agree with both Sil and SM on this (which is very hard to do sometimes i may add).
By the way Politikon, your doing a massive disservice to the fans with the latter comments, you'll find some of the most intriguing debates on this site between members.
Quote from: SM on May 05, 2010, 07:14:58 AM
Yeah you should. So far it's all about 'Why I have so much evidence to suggest the script is real' and then whining and moaning when people think your talking crap.
Painting everyone with the same brush isn't really a good start though.
I didn't read the script on the off chance it was legit so can't comment, but I'm certain people like SiL and others who did, wouldn't trash the whole thing because of colonial marines, Hicks, Newt and egg morphing or lack thereof.
I find it a bit hard to get my head around the idea of me talking crap with all the homophobes and meatheads talking complete utter BS about this thing while moderators and other members see no problem with it. Is that WHINEY? I guess that's just too effin bad for you then.
Im one of the only people trying to discuss it in any way that doesn't include calling it BROKEBACK ALIEN or GAYLIEN or yelling about gay sex, or SJ BBQ's. Certainly these are all childish over-simplifications and more crap-talk than anything I've said.
Your definition of whining seems to involve anything that doesn't simply say I DIDN'T LIKE IT.
I've seen people respond to messages about this topic with things like 'If it's not buttsects Politikon won't like it.'
Really? I mean. Is that supposed to embarrass ME or the person who wrote it? Did they misspell butt sex on purpose? You have to be kidding me? You think I'm whining and talking crap? What does that say about you, buddy?
As for this great disservice.... I'm only calling them like I see 'em. If there are people who can discuss things, their counterparts, speculate and objectively consider possibilities, this HARVEST script certainly isn't an example of it. Where I come from, in NYC, the minute someone says something homophobic and uneducated like that people would disregard their opinion, silence that shit, and consider them hateful and ignorant but alas those people are Okay on here. MY posts are crap-talk.
If anything is doing this site a disservice it's not my posts here it's the abundant lack of consideration and mature debate that some wish to exemplify. Thats not too mention the lack of contempt for uncivilized, and moronic homophobia. I'm sorry but you need to point that finger elsewhere.
When someone can post countless threads of hateful, misinformed BS and no one has a problem with it, but I get accused of crap-talk for speculating and trying to instill a healthy debate regarding a scripts possibile legitimacy, you might need to rethink your priorities.
Politikon theres about 15 threads on the bloody harvest script, and you started 14 of them. I think we've discussed it bone dry myself. Now you just still seem to be ranting on about how it "might" be the real deal, cool, fine, run with it. Maybe ease up on the gas a little though.. :D
Politkon, don't call this site homophobic. That is simply insulting. The problem I have with it is not that it's gay sex; it's that it's sex at all. I don't think that should be in an Alien movie. Of course, I haven't read the script, so maybe it worked in that context.
Quote from: SpaceMarines on May 05, 2010, 10:14:09 PM
I haven't read the script
OMGWTFSJBBQ!?!?!
You
need to read it! It's an event.
Quote from: Politikon on May 05, 2010, 05:24:58 PM
Im one of the only people trying to discuss it in any way that doesn't include calling it BROKEBACK ALIEN or GAYLIEN or yelling about gay sex, or SJ BBQ's.
I never once called it Gaylien, Brokeback Alien, or whined about the gay sex.
Quote from: TJ Doc on May 05, 2010, 10:29:45 PM
Quote from: SpaceMarines on May 05, 2010, 10:14:09 PM
I haven't read the script
OMGWTFSJBBQ!?!?!
You need to read it! It's an event.
Meh. I prefer watching the debate. :)
Quite. Kinda one sided though.
Quote from: SM on May 05, 2010, 11:39:53 PM
Quite. Kinda one sided though.
Politikon is a side all of his own.
I sure have seen the BrokeBack Alien and Gaylien references, but thats what you call movie references and parody. Jon Stewart, a comedian and supporter of gay rights uses that type of parody all the time in his show. He even has a recurring segment called "Gay Watch", a parody on "Bay Watch". Nothing hateful about that, but I guess that people that work on scripts and with writters would not know that type of humor or literary/artistic expresion wouldn't they. And since when pointing out that the script is more than likey a fake make you a homophobe? The defense of the harvest script is getting pathethic.
QuotePolitkon, don't call this site homophobic. That is simply insulting. The problem I have with it is not that it's gay sex; it's that it's sex at all. I don't think that should be in an Alien movie. Of course, I haven't read the script, so maybe it worked in that context.
What does this even mean? Sex has been in Alien forever. Sexual themes are absolutely integral to Ridley Scott's original film. Hell, Ripley even had actual sex in Alien 3. I don't know anything about this fan script, but I can pretty much gurantee you sex will be a big part of the prequel in some way. In fact, it will probably be gay sexual themes since that seems somewhere else the film could go.
And this guy seems to be too hung up on a fanscript, when Ridley Scott said only a few months ago the script was just finished. But bashing something as Gaylien and Broke Back Alien seems pretty f**king homophobic to me. When John Stewart makes gay jokes, he doesn't do it because he's pissed off something has gay themes and wants to bash it.
Quote from: J-Syxx on May 07, 2010, 08:52:01 PM
Sexual themes are absolutely integral to Ridley Scott's original film.
Themes, yes, blatant sex, no.
QuoteHell, Ripley even had actual sex in Alien 3.
Not that we saw it.
QuoteI don't know anything about this fan script, but I can pretty much gurantee you sex will be a big part of the prequel in some way.
If that means two dudes bumping uglies all over a table in graphic detail, count me out. That's not homophobia; to
people, period, bumping uglies all over a table in an Alien movie in graphic detail, count me out.
Stuff like -
Quotehis shorts bulge with his hard cock
just doesn't belong in
Alien. :-\
Pretty much.
The sexuality works in Alien because it's implicit, not explicit. Even Alien Resurrection understood that.
Quote from: TJ Doc on May 07, 2010, 10:31:06 PM
Stuff like -
Quotehis shorts bulge with his hard cock
just doesn't belong in Alien. :-\
You do realize the Alien is a giant penis, right? In fact it's a giant penis that penetrates people with another penis in its mouth. Also Ash's blood was obviously designed to resemble sperm. That would be kinda tame compared to what is in Alien actually.
QuoteIf that means two dudes bumping uglies all over a table in graphic detail, count me out. That's not homophobia; to people, period, bumping uglies all over a table in an Alien movie in graphic detail, count me out
I really don't care as long as it fits in the plot/themes etc. I haven't seen this script, but I'm sure Ridley isn't going to make it into a porno even if it has gay sex in it.
And alternatively I've never heard anyone ever complain about Ripley's gratuitous undies, so yeah maybe there's some slight bias on this subject.
Quote from: J-Syxx on May 07, 2010, 11:40:39 PM
Quote from: TJ Doc on May 07, 2010, 10:31:06 PM
Stuff like -
Quotehis shorts bulge with his hard cock
just doesn't belong in Alien. :-\
You do realize the Alien is a giant penis, right? In fact it's a giant penis that penetrates people with another penis in its mouth. Also Ash's blood was obviously designed to resemble sperm. That would be kinda tame compared to what is in Alien actually.
... Did you read SiL's posts? ???
Quote from: J-Syxx on May 07, 2010, 11:40:39 PM
You do realize the Alien is a giant penis, right?
No, it isn't.
Its head is shaped like one.
But it's not a giant penis.
That's the difference. Looks like and is. Implied sexuality and overt sexuality.
QuoteI haven't seen this script
Then go and do that and see why people have an issue with it.
QuoteAnd alternatively I've never heard anyone ever complain about Ripley's gratuitous undies, so yeah maybe there's some slight bias on this subject.
Undies are in
any way comparable to
two guys f**king each other all over a table how? Talk about reaching for straws ... :-\
QuoteNo, it isn't.
Its head is shaped like one.
But it's not a giant penis.
That's the difference. Looks like and is. Implied sexuality and overt sexuality.
The Alien is a phallus symbol. That is no way coincidental. As for implied vs. overt sexuality, I don't see why it would be such a crime to have both. There will be human beings in this film, I'm assuming, and sex is pretty damn important part of human behavior. You almost sound like you're afraid of sex or something. And also I think Ridley Scott may have wanted more overt sexuality in his film, if you ever read any of his commentaries on the thing, everyone was supposed to be f**king everyone originally pretty much. I'm not sure why he toned this down, maybe he was forced to. So perhaps your idea of overt sex belonging in Alien and Scott's ideas about it may be completely different. What is important fortunately is what Scott wants.
QuoteUndies are in any way comparable to two guys f**king each other all over a table how? Talk about reaching for straws ... :-\
Was more or less comparing it to the buldge in pants thing but whatever. Certain people will bitch about seeing male sexuality becuase if will make them feel "uncomfortable" because of their lack of confidence in their own sexuality. If it's anything to do with the female body they definitely wouldn't be bitching as much about it. That is my point.
The alien is definitely influenced by sexual themes. Just look at giger's work, he does designs like that all the time. That said, the alien franchise has never been about sex. In fact, I really did not noticed the alien 1 inuendo until I saw a documentary that spoke of it. That said, Alien is not about graphic gay sex, or even straight sex, the themes are suggested or implied and with the exception of the face hugger oral rape, the rest is not directly involved with the story (phallic shapes, etc.) Now wanting graphic sex on the movie is a whole different issue.
Quote from: Federick Gonsa on May 08, 2010, 01:17:23 AM
The alien is definitely influenced by sexual themes. Just look at giger's work, he does designs like that all the time. That said, the alien franchise has never been about sex. In fact, I really did not noticed the alien 1 inuendo until I saw a documentary that spoke of it. That said, Alien is not about graphic gay sex, or even straight sex, the themes are suggested or implied and with the exception of the face hugger oral rape, the rest is not directly involved with the story (phallic shapes, etc.) Now wanting graphic sex on the movie is a whole different issue.
Ridley Scott was definitely all about the sexual themes in Alien. And i's just not the face-hugger, it's pretty much every aspect of the Alien honestly. Like the whole idea of a male birth is definitely rooted in some primal sexual and gender taboos.
Also one of the things again I think people are ignoring is that he wanted to do with the film was to explore sexual relationships in the future using a "free love" concept in regards to sex. This even included same-sex relationships which he eluded to in the commentary. He didn't end up doing that in the final film, but it was definitely part of the production at one time. So to me suggesting having sex in an alien film wouldn't be sticking true to what Alein is, is pretty illogical. In fact, I kind of expect Scott to push this even more in the prequel since he may have been held back a bit in the original. Like I said, it would seem like a more natural progression to me than what you guys are suggesting.
As for "graphic sex," I really don't know what you're afraid of it. It's not like they would actually be able to show the penetration and keep an R-rating. I mean horror films can't have sex now? What is this sunday school?
I've never liked sex scenes. I certainly wouldn't want one in an Alien flick. Name one thing the film would lose if it was done like in Alien 3. I can't think of anything we'd miss if we didn't actually see a two-minute montage of someone shoving a penis into someone else.
Quote from: J-Syxx on May 08, 2010, 12:58:30 AM
The Alien is a phallus symbol. That is no way coincidental.
No shit. I'm not saying otherwise.
But it's not like they just stuck a three-foot cock on the thing's neck and called it a day.
QuoteAs for implied vs. overt sexuality, I don't see why it would be such a crime to have both.
Because it is totally unnecessary. The implied sexuality gives it death; explicit sexuality adds nothing but some titties (Even if they are man boobs).
QuoteThere will be human beings in this film, I'm assuming, and sex is pretty damn important part of human behavior.
And yet the first two movies did just fine without it. Adding sex scenes to those movies would add nothing but, well, sex.
QuoteYou almost sound like you're afraid of sex or something.
...I'm just going to ignore you said something so absolutely asinine and move on.
QuoteAnd also I think Ridley Scott may have wanted more overt sexuality in his film, if you ever read any of his commentaries on the thing, everyone was supposed to be f**king everyone originally pretty much.
Not explicitly. It wasn't like there was a heap of sex scenes showing everyone going at it. Ripley and Dallas had a sex scene scripted, it got cut for being unnecessary.
Keep in mind Ridley Scott is the guy who said 'Sex is boring unless you're doing it'.
QuoteI'm not sure why he toned this down, maybe he was forced to.
He didn't tone it down, it was never really there. He simply envisaged a future where everyone was pretty free with the sex; it got referenced in a deleted line of dialogue, the end. It was never a major issue, just a piece of background detail like the porno makes stuck to the wall.
QuoteIf it's anything to do with the female body they definitely wouldn't be bitching as much about it. That is my point.
I'd be bitching just as much if it was two ladies going at it on the table, or a guy and a girl.
The Alien's implicit sexuality is paramount importance. It has to be the driving sexual force of the film, because sex is essentially the point of the Alien. If we have the other characters happily bonking tonks while the Alien's running around somewhere else, we're undermining a significant part of what makes the Alien relevant. It works like this:
When Kane got facehugged, we didn't know what the hell was going on. Something was attached to his face, and, uh, it was feeding him oxygen. Why would it do that?
'Cause it was mating with him, essentially. We don't realise this until the chestburster bursts, and it's a part of why that scene is a go-to example of brilliant horror. It wasn't just gory and brutal; it was a realisation. In that moment, everything suddenly made sense amidst the blood and broken bones. Kane had been raped by the facehugger and forced to bear its young. And then his child had killed him.
It's a complete perversion of human pregnancy and our social sense of sexuality. A man being raped and made pregnant just turns the world upside down.
So the Alien is an ultramasculine force that destroys the masculinity of the other characters through the nature of its being.
And that means no sex. It means no sex because that would undermine the horror of the creature. Since if people are able to function sexually while it's active and they know of its existence, then the creature has failed and the horror has failed.
^They could show a sex scene early on in the movie to show contrast. I think actually makes sense.
Quote from: J-Syxx on May 08, 2010, 02:07:07 AM
Also one of the things again I think people are ignoring is that he wanted to do with the film was to explore sexual relationships in the future using a "free love" concept in regards to sex.
Ridley Scott stated that what he wanted to do with the movie was scare the shit out of people. He did.
QuoteThis even included same-sex relationships which he eluded to in the commentary. He didn't end up doing that in the final film, but it was definitely part of the production at one time.
The way you say it makes it sound like Ridley wanted the character to start making out with each other and breaking off mid-conversation to talk about how much they all loved f**king each other.
It was never such a big deal. It was never 'part of the production'. One dialogue in the entire film eluded to it, and that was the extent of it. He wasn't forced to 'tone it down' because it was never truly there to begin with.
QuoteSo to me suggesting having sex in an alien film wouldn't be sticking true to what Alein is, is pretty illogical.
It's like saying the next movie should get really involved in the idea of space truckers stopping off at souvenir stores and buying shit like khakis and drinky birds, because that's the kind of thing Ridley had in mind for his universe when he made
Alien.
No, seriously - Listen to the 20th anniversary DVD, that shit is in there.
Quote from: Mus on May 08, 2010, 02:46:40 AM
I've never liked sex scenes. I certainly wouldn't want one in an Alien flick. Name one thing the film would lose if it was done like in Alien 3. I can't think of anything we'd miss if we didn't actually see a two-minute montage of someone shoving a penis into someone else.
I agree completely. Sex scenes are done purely to draw movie goers, generate controversy, or fill run time. Sex sells in different forms and the studios know it. I do not like how movies and more recently video games are wasting time and resources to incorporate sex scenes in their games, when clearly they are inserted for publicity and not for story telling or artistic purposes. I hope that Alien does not go that route.
Slasher movies need titties, cos slasher movies ain't nothin' but gore and titties. Remove the titties and you better hope you have a good plot.
Quote from: SiL on May 08, 2010, 04:32:30 AM
Slasher movies need titties, cos slasher movies ain't nothin' but gore and titties. Remove the titties and you better hope you have a good plot.
Amen. By the way, I was lmao at your space trucker comment. Good point though.
Quote from: SiL on May 08, 2010, 04:28:22 AM
It's like saying the next movie should get really involved in the idea of space truckers stopping off at souvenir stores and buying shit like khakis and drinky birds, because that's the kind of thing Ridley had in mind for his universe when he made Alien.
No, seriously - Listen to the 20th anniversary DVD, that shit is in there.
But I want to see the origins of the drinky bird!
If everything Ridley Scott mused about got into a prequel it'd be ninety minutes of two guys f**king each other at the counter of a planetoid-side souvenir stand buying drinky-birds and khakis while an Alien had sex with a woman in the corner then tore off her head and spoke in her voice while maggots in its head tripped the f**k out on LSD.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwashingtonbus.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F12%2Fmindblown.jpg&hash=a87880da34dc231260ce3b50ba2bad79a135424f)
Quote from: SiL on May 08, 2010, 05:24:52 AM
If everything Ridley Scott mused about got into a prequel it'd be ninety minutes of two guys f**king each other at the counter of a planetoid-side souvenir stand buying drinky-birds and khakis while an Alien had sex with a woman in the corner then tore off her head and spoke in her voice while maggots in its head tripped the f**k out on LSD.
I'd see that.
Quote from: SiL on May 08, 2010, 05:24:52 AM
maggots in its head tripped the f**k out on LSD.
This is the idea that should make it in.
Quote from: SiL on May 08, 2010, 05:24:52 AM
If everything Ridley Scott mused about got into a prequel it'd be ninety minutes of two guys f**king each other at the counter of a planetoid-side souvenir stand buying drinky-birds and khakis while an Alien had sex with a woman in the corner then tore off her head and spoke in her voice while maggots in its head tripped the f**k out on LSD.
I think I've seen a porn movie like that.
Quote from: SiL on May 08, 2010, 05:24:52 AM
If everything Ridley Scott mused about got into a prequel it'd be ninety minutes of two guys f**king each other at the counter of a planetoid-side souvenir stand buying drinky-birds and khakis while an Alien had sex with a woman in the corner then tore off her head and spoke in her voice while maggots in its head tripped the f**k out on LSD.
And the Oscar for Best Original Screenplay goes to....
...Surely not this film.
QuoteThe Alien's implicit sexuality is paramount importance. It has to be the driving sexual force of the film, because sex is essentially the point of the Alien. If we have the other characters happily bonking tonks while the Alien's running around somewhere else, we're undermining a significant part of what makes the Alien relevant. It works like this:
When Kane got facehugged, we didn't know what the hell was going on. Something was attached to his face, and, uh, it was feeding him oxygen. Why would it do that?
'Cause it was mating with him, essentially. We don't realise this until the chestburster bursts, and it's a part of why that scene is a go-to example of brilliant horror. It wasn't just gory and brutal; it was a realisation. In that moment, everything suddenly made sense amidst the blood and broken bones. Kane had been raped by the facehugger and forced to bear its young. And then his child had killed him.
It's a complete perversion of human pregnancy and our social sense of sexuality. A man being raped and made pregnant just turns the world upside down.
So the Alien is an ultramasculine force that destroys the masculinity of the other characters through the nature of its being.
And that means no sex. It means no sex because that would undermine the horror of the creature. Since if people are able to function sexually while it's active and they know of its existence, then the creature has failed and the horror has failed.
Quote^They could show a sex scene early on in the movie to show contrast. I think actually makes sense.
Yeah exactly. I'm still not getting how actual sex early in the movie invalidates the sexual symbolism comes later. It doesn't. It maybe changes the themes perhaps, but it's nothing that couldn't' be intelligently integrated. You should also realize that the prequel is not going to be a remake, it's a different story, so things will be approached differently.
QuoteI agree completely. Sex scenes are done purely to draw movie goers, generate controversy, or fill run time. Sex sells in different forms and the studios know it. I do not like how movies and more recently video games are wasting time and resources to incorporate sex scenes in their games, when clearly they are inserted for publicity and not for story telling or artistic purposes. I hope that Alien does not go that route.
Honestly, this is a bunch of bunk. In horror and thrillers violence and sex are intertwined as they are in the real world. Just pointing out shitty titty scenes in Firday the 13th Part 4 for instance doesn't invalidate the nudity or sex in other films that used it correctly. A serial killer is a sexual predator, giving him voyeuristic tendencies or having him seek out people who have sex makes sense.
In films where romance is importanct, the sex is used to show intimacy. Unless you guys are Catholic priests, I don't see what you could possibly find wrong with that as being portrayed as part of a relationship.
Also I really don't have problems with sex existing in film as part of the entertainment factor. Some movies are just meant as mindless entertainment, so why not? Obviously I don't include fine pieces of art like Alien in that fold, but I don't let myself resent seeing things that should be pleasant because of some deep seeded sexual taboos created by religion for its own purposes. Judging everything by the same standards though is pretty damn pretentious. If you're holding a videogame about shooting people to the same standards as Citizen Kane, there's a good possibility you probalby need to get a life.
Also, sex scenes are boring.
QuoteI don't see what you could possibly find wrong with that as being portrayed as part of a relationship.
You really, really need to read the script to see why we have an issue with it.
It's not to strengthen a relationship or any such thing. They're being mind-controlled by Space Jockeys.
There's also the fact no-one here's saying sex in movies is bad,
period. We're saying sex in
Alien movies is
grossly unnecessary.
Huge difference.
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 09, 2010, 01:04:19 AM
Also, sex scenes are boring.
This too.
Except when it's borderline porn anyway, and then it's just in an inefficient context.
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 09, 2010, 01:04:19 AM
Also, sex scenes are boring.
QFT. Especially Gay ones. :|
why do i get the feeling that the alien prequel is gonna turn out to be a mixture of broke back mountain and star trek ??? ::) :P
Quote from: arabianhunter on May 09, 2010, 06:31:03 PM
why do i get the feeling that the alien prequel is gonna turn out to be a mixture of broke back mountain and star trek ??? ::) :P
Are you trying to be ironic here after the last conversation, because yeah this is kind of a lame and pretty tired joke by now. Gay sex has existed since the beginning of history probably. It wasn't created in Brokeback Mountain.
QuoteThere's also the fact no-one here's saying sex in movies is bad, period. We're saying sex in Alien movies is grossly unnecessary. Huge difference.
I'll take your point about not having read the script, but I still think actual sex integrated into an Alien film could work if it was done correctly.
An Alien film needs tension. A sex scene no matter where it sits in the narrative, has huge potential to destroy this, because the audience came to see a tense horror flick. Having a sex scene can make the characters look stupid because they clearly have no clue to type of trouble their in.
In Alien the sex scene got cut because it had no real point and was inappropriate.
In Aliens everything was kept platonic between Ripley and Hicks because again, taking if further had no point.
QuoteAre you trying to be ironic here after the last conversation, because yeah this is kind of a lame and pretty tired joke by now. Gay sex has existed since the beginning of history probably. It wasn't created in Brokeback Mountain.
Wasting your time since he's been banned already.
^ Except in Alien 3 where Ripley had sex with Clemens and it as far as I could tell had nothing to do with messing up the pacing of the film.
The only sex I remember in an Alien movie was Alien3 when that guy tried to rape Ripley.
Quote^ Except in Alien 3 where Ripley had sex with Clemens and it as far as I could tell had nothing to do with messing up the pacing of the film.
Perfect case in point. It again had no place and many felt the film suffered for it. The dialogue between Ripley and Clemens could've easily been other than post-coital. And may have added some sexual tension that built towards something before Clemens snuffed it. And Ripley could've deflected Clemens enquiries in other ways other than shagging him.
However, the characters were starting already look slightly dumb by that point 'cos there an Alien on the loose that no one knows about - even Ripley. As opposed to previous films where they knew there was a threat, though not the extent of it. The first half of Alien3 is for the most part Ripley butting heads with Andrews, and being largely clueless to the Alien's presence, which puts her behind the audience. Generally not a good thing.
At any rate, we don't see the two shagging.
No, fortunately. As it was they more or less got away with it.
Quote from: J-Syxx on May 09, 2010, 11:27:23 PM
Quote from: arabianhunter on May 09, 2010, 06:31:03 PM
why do i get the feeling that the alien prequel is gonna turn out to be a mixture of broke back mountain and star trek ??? ::) :P
Are you trying to be ironic here after the last conversation, because yeah this is kind of a lame and pretty tired joke by now. Gay sex has existed since the beginning of history probably. It wasn't created in Brokeback Mountain.
QuoteThere's also the fact no-one here's saying sex in movies is bad, period. We're saying sex in Alien movies is grossly unnecessary. Huge difference.
I'll take your point about not having read the script, but I still think actual sex integrated into an Alien film could work if it was done correctly.
now hold on just a sec i get the feeling someones gonna send a ban missile my way without warning i already got banned once without warning and why the hell do i deserve a ban for what i said i mean come on how could anyone WHO READ the script not see the immense epic failure to it the film is meant to put fear in the audience but for some reason it comes of a some sort of happy wonderland film which has its
intense moments but for most parts its talking and awkward silence ??? i doubt ridley scott wouldnt make changes to it because its a serous problem
Quote from: SM on May 09, 2010, 11:35:58 PM
An Alien film needs tension. A sex scene no matter where it sits in the narrative, has huge potential to destroy this, because the audience came to see a tense horror flick. Having a sex scene can make the characters look stupid because they clearly have no clue to type of trouble their in.
If it could ever be pulled of like in Don't Look Now, then it could help the characterisation. Actually pulling it off, however...
I dont think we really need one that bad. The reason sex scenes dont work is because of the audience. Theyre either too embarrased, too immature or too "pillar of the community" religious.
Quote from: Valaquen on May 10, 2010, 01:28:01 PM
If it could ever be pulled of like in Don't Look Now, then it could help the characterisation. Actually pulling it off, however...
Except that scene was a relief from tension, which you don't want in an Alien movie. Even when everyone was sitting around talking in
Aliens it was kept tense by the lurking threat of Aliens.
And was lacking when people were sitting/ standing around talking in Alien3 and Resurrection. And they weren't even getting jiggy while sitting/ standing around.
Quote from: Anto of the Sand on May 10, 2010, 01:38:36 PM
I dont think we really need one that bad. The reason sex scenes dont work is because of the audience. Theyre either too embarrased, too immature or too "pillar of the community" religious.
Or bored. Don't forget bored.
Bored of cheezy lame arse sex scenes.
All the good ones are borderline pornography anyway.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 28, 2010, 05:03:38 PM
Quite positive he only said he was thinking of re-designing the early stages. Whatever that meant.
"The alien in a sense, as a shape, is worn out."
He's said for several years that if he ever did another film, he'd want to completely redesign all of it.
Personally, I don't have any issue with something even nastier being found in the chamber. Back when I was messing around with coming up with a partial prequel to '
Aliens', about the story of Hadley's Hope before those tragic events (this was in the nineties), we decided to imply that the part with the eggs in it was just
one part of the chamber, because we liked how the original scene implied the place could have gone on for miles as it rounded the corner.
So, for me, that works. There's no reason why the Alien should have been the only thing in there. In one of the film novelisations there's actually a character who raises the idea that the Alien could be like the mice of their original world, which I always thought would be a very thought-provoking ideal if raised in an actual future film.
The problem is that, as shown by the 'Newborn' and 'Predalien', if what the story tries to imply as being more vicious and disturbing than the original design, turns out to be crappier, it's a huge anti-climax! Because the film
is a part of an established series, the viewer
would feel disappointed and begin comparing it with the originals and it woudl generate lots of negative publicity.
So, yeah, it could work. The thing is, it would be a gamble.
Quote from: Federick Gonsa on Apr 30, 2010, 01:57:52 AM
Like Scott said, he has to out do Cameron's aliens.
He really doesn't. Especially by this point, where people would be grateful for it to even be at the same level as the first or second film.
Quote from: Blacklabel on May 02, 2010, 05:02:45 AM
Really hope the alien redesign is similar to the unused ones Giger had done for Alien3... those were badass 8)
I personally disliked them. He did much better stuff for '
Species'. The panther-like creature with blades between its fingers, really didn't work for me.
Quote from: Politikon on May 03, 2010, 11:29:59 PM
Any professional level writer would know this doesn't work. I have worked in the writing dept on Feature Films and TV AT THE GROUND LEVEL and the idea that someone who is a published author wouldn't know they wont even open a transcript is absurd. Aspiring or Professional. Unless he was aspiring as in dreaming and 13 years old.
As a writer, myself, this is
not absurd. Professionals
do not open them, sopecifically because of legal difficulties, unless the stuff's requested.
If you're lucky, you'll get it returned with a small nick in the envelope where the secretary or whoever has looked inside to make sure it is what it is. Otherwise, it'll get discarded.
An examples of why this happens to be, is that, in the nineties, someone was going around and boasting he was going to send Cameron his script for '
Terminator 3', knowing fully well that it wouldn't be made, but with the logic that, by the time Cameron did make one (when people all thought that it was inevitable), he could sue the guy and claim various elements were all in his script. The moment a company opens and looks at a script, they're wide open for
any legal challenge along those lines in the future.
Even if they somehow win the case, they're still going to need to pay lawyers money and it'll take up time. It's never worth it.
That's why you always write a cover letter, first, asking if they're interested at looking at your stuff and what amounts to a miniature contract which basically allows them out of any such legal tangles. If - and only if - they say yes and you've both signed that sort of documentation, will they look at it.
In the above case, I think it's fair to say it just got binned.
That's the trouble with companies who publish artistic material from writers. Most submissions they get don't follow the right procedure! About 90% of what they get, if that, is just chucked away. They could have a masterpiece, but they won't open it.
And, seeing as the company weren't making such a film, even if such a letter had first been sent their way, they'd have just said something to that effect in a reply. At most, possibly said, hey, we're not doing this, but you happen to have caught us at a time when we're accepting stuff from outside writers - send us some original material.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on May 11, 2010, 08:28:29 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 28, 2010, 05:03:38 PM
Quite positive he only said he was thinking of re-designing the early stages. Whatever that meant.
"The alien in a sense, as a shape, is worn out."
He's said for several years that if he ever did another film, he'd want to completely redesign all of it.
Personally, I don't have any issue with something even nastier being found in the chamber. Back when I was messing around with coming up with a partial prequel to 'Aliens', about the story of Hadley's Hope before those tragic events (this was in the nineties), we decided to imply that the part with the eggs in it was just one part of the chamber, because we liked how the original scene implied the place could have gone on for miles as it rounded the corner.
So, for me, that works. There's no reason why the Alien should have been the only thing in there. In one of the film novelisations there's actually a character who raises the idea that the Alien could be like the mice of their original world, which I always thought would be a very thought-provoking ideal if raised in an actual future film.
The problem is that, as shown by the 'Newborn' and 'Predalien', if what the story tries to imply as being more vicious and disturbing than the original design, turns out to be crappier, it's a huge anti-climax! Because the film is a part of an established series, the viewer would feel disappointed and begin comparing it with the originals and it woudl generate lots of negative publicity.
So, yeah, it could work. The thing is, it would be a gamble.
Quote from: Federick Gonsa on Apr 30, 2010, 01:57:52 AM
Like Scott said, he has to out do Cameron's aliens.
He really doesn't. Especially by this point, where people would be grateful for it to even be at the same level as the first or second film.
Quote from: Blacklabel on May 02, 2010, 05:02:45 AM
Really hope the alien redesign is similar to the unused ones Giger had done for Alien3... those were badass 8)
I personally disliked them. He did much better stuff for 'Species'. The panther-like creature with blades between its fingers, really didn't work for me.
Quote from: Politikon on May 03, 2010, 11:29:59 PM
Any professional level writer would know this doesn't work. I have worked in the writing dept on Feature Films and TV AT THE GROUND LEVEL and the idea that someone who is a published author wouldn't know they wont even open a transcript is absurd. Aspiring or Professional. Unless he was aspiring as in dreaming and 13 years old.
As a writer, myself, this is not absurd. Professionals do not open them, sopecifically because of legal difficulties, unless the stuff's requested.
If you're lucky, you'll get it returned with a small nick in the envelope where the secretary or whoever has looked inside to make sure it is what it is. Otherwise, it'll get discarded.
An examples of why this happens to be, is that, in the nineties, someone was going around and boasting he was going to send Cameron his script for 'Terminator 3', knowing fully well that it wouldn't be made, but with the logic that, by the time Cameron did make one (when people all thought that it was inevitable), he could sue the guy and claim various elements were all in his script. The moment a company opens and looks at a script, they're wide open for any legal challenge along those lines in the future.
Even if they somehow win the case, they're still going to need to pay lawyers money and it'll take up time. It's never worth it.
That's why you always write a cover letter, first, asking if they're interested at looking at your stuff and what amounts to a miniature contract which basically allows them out of any such legal tangles. If - and only if - they say yes and you've both signed that sort of documentation, will they look at it.
In the above case, I think it's fair to say it just got binned.
That's the trouble with companies who publish artistic material from writers. Most submissions they get don't follow the right procedure! About 90% of what they get, if that, is just chucked away. They could have a masterpiece, but they won't open it.
And, seeing as the company weren't making such a film, even if such a letter had first been sent their way, they'd have just said something to that effect in a reply. At most, possibly said, hey, we're not doing this, but you happen to have caught us at a time when we're accepting stuff from outside writers - send us some original material.
I did not say that Scott has to out do Cameron. Ridley Scott said it himself in a recent interview, So if the man himself says he has to out do Cameron, why do you question that?
Which interview?
Quote from: Valaquen on May 11, 2010, 04:45:46 PM
Which interview?
One of the various recent interviews. I don't remeber the specific site that did the interview and I don't have to. I assume that everyone read the interviews in their own free time. I am not gonna spend my time to search for what I already read (there are too many of those interviews already, and searching for that specific one would take me time). If you want to see it with your own eyes though, read all the interviews released recently. He makes a comment like, "I can't let him (Cameron) out do me" (I am quoting verbatum here). Something of the sort.
*EDIT* I made a brief search on this site, and I found the llink fairly quick. So here you go:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8644051.stm
Ridley says:
Quote"Jim's raised the bar and I've got to jump to it," said the 72-year-old. "He's not going to get away with it."
Quote from: Federick Gonsa on May 11, 2010, 09:48:39 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on May 11, 2010, 04:45:46 PM
Which interview?
One of the various recent interviews. I don't remeber the specific site that did the interview and I don't have to. I assume that everyone read the interviews in their own free time. I am not gonna spend my time to search for what I already read (there are too many of those interviews already, and searching for that specific one would take me time). If you want to see it with your own eyes though, read all the interviews released recently. He makes a comment like, "I can't let him (Cameron) out do me" (I am quoting verbatum here). Something of the sort.
*EDIT* I made a brief search on this site, and I found the llink fairly quick. So here you go:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8644051.stm
Ridley says:
Quote"Jim's raised the bar and I've got to jump to it," said the 72-year-old. "He's not going to get away with it."
Yeah, that interview suggests he was talking about outdoing Avatar not Aliens, so you said something kind of baseless. I'm sure if he was referring to Aliens, the interviewer would've picked up on that:
QuoteDirector Sir Ridley Scott has revealed that his 3D Alien prequel will be "really nasty" and will respond to the standard set by James Cameron's Avatar.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on May 11, 2010, 08:28:29 AM
I personally disliked them. He did much better stuff for 'Species'. The panther-like creature with blades between its fingers, really didn't work for me.
Dammit. Am I the only one who liked Giger's panther xeno? Everywhere i turn peeps seem to hate it.
I thought the retractable claws between it's fingers was a cool idea.
I liked it okay - it's just I prefer the tailpipes.
Quote from: Spaghetti on May 12, 2010, 06:29:49 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on May 11, 2010, 08:28:29 AM
I personally disliked them. He did much better stuff for 'Species'. The panther-like creature with blades between its fingers, really didn't work for me.
Dammit. Am I the only one who liked Giger's panther xeno? Everywhere i turn peeps seem to hate it.
I thought the retractable claws between it's fingers was a cool idea.
Nope, you're not the only one.
I liked that design alot. ;)
Only problem I have with the "Panther Alien" are those Inter-falange Claws. Too much Wolverine-ish IMHO.
Quote from: J-Syxx on May 12, 2010, 02:53:38 AM
Quote from: Federick Gonsa on May 11, 2010, 09:48:39 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on May 11, 2010, 04:45:46 PM
Which interview?
One of the various recent interviews. I don't remeber the specific site that did the interview and I don't have to. I assume that everyone read the interviews in their own free time. I am not gonna spend my time to search for what I already read (there are too many of those interviews already, and searching for that specific one would take me time). If you want to see it with your own eyes though, read all the interviews released recently. He makes a comment like, "I can't let him (Cameron) out do me" (I am quoting verbatum here). Something of the sort.
*EDIT* I made a brief search on this site, and I found the llink fairly quick. So here you go:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8644051.stm
Ridley says:
Quote"Jim's raised the bar and I've got to jump to it," said the 72-year-old. "He's not going to get away with it."
Yeah, that interview suggests he was talking about outdoing Avatar not Aliens, so you said something kind of baseless. I'm sure if he was referring to Aliens, the interviewer would've picked up on that:
QuoteDirector Sir Ridley Scott has revealed that his 3D Alien prequel will be "really nasty" and will respond to the standard set by James Cameron's Avatar.
My point still remains. Ridley says he has to do better than Cameron. When I first said that comment days ago, I meant it in the context of Avatar (it was fresher in my memory). If you check my original post in the matter, the previous post is talking about avatar :P . The second time I did not remembered why I said it, I assumed it was because of alienS (I dont always have the time to re-read an entire thread before posting). My point when I said that days a go, is that Ridley wants, and feels like he has to do much better than Cameron in terms of directing, technology, and inventing something new (in this case he was thinking of avatar) Avatar was more than a Sy Fy movie. It was an Epic with state of the art special effects. I think that the prequel is going to be more than a regular horror Sy Fy Movie or it would not be able to compete with Avatar. So Ridley said that he has to do better than Cameron, not me. whether he meant aliens (which he did not) or avatar (which he meant), it does not matter, my original point remains and his words reign supreme on the matter. The prequel wont be just another Alien movie (horror Sy Fy), it has to do better than Cameron's Avatar (Epic Sy Fy movie with state of the art visual effects). Whether you agree with that, I don't really care.
Sy Fy?
Shortening for Science Fiction, used to call that Channel, Sy-Fy.
It's 'sci-fi'.
The Sci-fi channel renamed itself to reflect the growing number of fantasy stories it was producing.
The facehugger could be redesigned in my opinion, audiences aren't creeped out by it as they used to be. As for the chestburster, I'd give it longer arms and the warrior/drone "cap" on its head.
They don't need to resdesign the hugger - just do something different with it. In the first film it was new so they could get away with it doing next to nothing. In Aliens Cambo spiced it up by animating it more. The remaining flicks didn't really do anything new. Well Paulie did his bullet time/ slow mo thing, which would've been okay if bullet time in general hadn't been done to death by that point.
I remember reading something once - possibly an early Resurrection draft, or maybe the AvP novelisation? - where Aliens held a host down, while the hugger slowly crept up the hosts body and then settling on their face. Something like that could work rather nicely.
Making the 'hugger more deliberate and sensual would be creepy as all hell, my vote's in on that.
Maybe even it'd be enough to simply prolong a hugging. Kinda like Ripley in Aliens - but the hugger actually winning. The host gritting their teeth and breathing through their nose until the huggers tail chokes them to the point that their beaten.
That'll probably be enough, but the concept of enough is something that the first film did its best to undermine. I think they should take the concept as far as it can go without any silliness.
Quoteconcept of enough is something that the first film did its best to undermine
No it didn't.
The hugger was enough, the burster was enough, the head-bites were enough. It undermined shit in the 'That'll do, thanks' category.
Same diff, really.
It absolutely destroyed everyone's expectations at the point of release. It broke the 'enough' threshold without hitting the 'silly' wall. 'Cause that's the thing. If the audience says 'Alright, thanks, that's enough', f**k them, edge over the line just a little more. That's what Alien did, and it didn't need gore to do it; they just used ridiculous ideas and creepy creature behaviour.
...what?
When?
In what aspect?
Nothing about the movie stepped over any sort of line. Texas Chainsaw Massacre traipsed over the line into balls-out insanity land; Alien walked firmly along it.
Oral bestial rape culminating in an exploded chest.
If that doesn't cross any lines, I don't know what does.
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 13, 2010, 08:21:44 AM
Oral bestial rape culminating in an exploded chest.
If that doesn't cross any lines, I don't know what does.
No-one ever said 'Ew that's too much'.
The gore was a bit much for people to handle, sure, but they never 'crossed the line'. They
couldn't -- That line had never even been drawn.
Alien set the precedent.
The precedent in squicky, explosive bestial mouth rape, I presume, 'cause there were sci-fi horrors before Alien.
(And a beachball).
That's what I meant, yes.
Your argument kind'a presumes everyone had come to some kind of agreement that intergalactic mouth-rape was a place you just didn't go, yet nowhere during Alien's production did anyone seem to think it was anything other than a unique way of getting a monster on a space-ship.
i don't really think that the facehugging scene was graphic enough to warrant worries about "going to far". you can more or less have anything happen in a movie as long as you don't see it.
films like the exorcist and demon see came before alien and i'd say they make alien look kind of tame in comparison in the "going too far" stakes.
Quote from: SiL on May 13, 2010, 08:55:33 AM
That's what I meant, yes.
Your argument kind'a presumes everyone had come to some kind of agreement that intergalactic mouth-rape was a place you just didn't go, yet nowhere during Alien's production did anyone seem to think it was anything other than a unique way of getting a monster on a space-ship.
'Cept the horrified audiences.
Which is what it comes down to. Filmmakers - especially filmmakers like Sir Riddles De Scottingtons - are always a step or five ahead of the audience when it comes to conceptualising this kind of thing. What the cast, crew, filmmakers and suits think are ultimately secondary to the audience reaction. And if the stories about
Alien's reception are true, then it was clearly crossing lines.
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 13, 2010, 09:23:25 AM
'Cept the horrified audiences.
Again - Gore got to some people, but I never heard people saying 'ohshit face-rape'.
The studio would be the first to say 'Hold on, maybe no.'
Studio never had a problem.
The face-rape was never mentioned as an issue to anyone. No-one ever said it was anything other than a cool idea. Some audience members got put off by the chest bursting and Ash's head being removed, not seeing John Hurt lying on a table with a rubber prop wrapped around his head raping him. It was solely the graphic nature of two sequences that effected most audience members to the point they walked out.
i think the facehugger is better described as chilling rather than horrific.
Quote from: SiL on May 13, 2010, 11:40:41 AM
Again - Gore got to some people, but I never heard people saying 'ohshit face-rape'.
The studio would be the first to say 'Hold on, maybe no.'
Studio never had a problem.
The face-rape was never mentioned as an issue to anyone. No-one ever said it was anything other than a cool idea. Some audience members got put off by the chest bursting and Ash's head being removed, not seeing John Hurt lying on a table with a rubber prop wrapped around his head raping him. It was solely the graphic nature of two sequences that effected most audience members to the point they walked out.
I think it has something to do with the nature of the violence, though. I don't think audiences would've cared as much if an Alien did a tail-impale through someone's chest at some point. But there's a lot to do with the realisation that Kane had been fostering this gestating thing inside him. And that was the entire point of the lifecycle -- to underline the horror and spectacle.
I'm guessing it was the suddenness -- like I said, a lot of the strong reactions also came from Ash's head being knocked off, and until it was toned down, Parker's death was considered a real nut-kicker. Realising 'oh goodness it was in him all along' played a part, sure, but it was much more the execution than the concept.
Well yeah, if the chestburster had politely asked to be surgically removed the impact would've been somewhat diminished.
Without the concept the violence is rendered irrelevant, though. That's what makes the horror in Alien so different to that of splatter or traditional slasher movies; the violence was invariably so plot-supported and character-relevant that it actually meant something to the audience.
I guess my point is that crossing the line isn't just about the literal amount of gore and violence on screen -- it's also about the relevance those events have to the characters and therefore the audience. If something the audience has some amount of investment in is violated, that's edging towards the line (or straddling it. Or crossing it. Context sensitive).
Quote from: SiL on May 12, 2010, 09:37:34 PM
It's 'sci-fi'.
I know.
Sy-Fy is exclusively for the channel, as I said.
Quote from: Xhan on May 04, 2010, 08:38:03 AM
QuoteYou can be talented and an idiot.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sK30E2ONoTk/SaIaY9y9pJI/AAAAAAAAEto/v4Qpve40xjw/s400/tom-cruise_1.jpg
http://www.realbollywood.com/news/up_images/11118645.jpg
I lol'd.
As for the whole "doing something more with it" thing, if that's even necessary, they could extend the battle between the hugger and the victim. I like the alternative facehuggers Giger drew. This one:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/movies/alien/gigerart/normal_Facehugger_I.jpg)
It has that tube going into the victim's mouth, I'd like to see that on the "real" one's as well. Like, the hugger leaps on the victim's face as usual, and ss it settles down, it inserts a tube in the victim's mouth (it comes from the vagina thing when we don't see it). The victim still attempts to rip the hugger off, revealing the tube, and then we get a shot of intergalactic face penetration as the hugger pumps back and forth while trying to overpower the victim. Mmmmmm.
Quote from: MadassAlex on May 13, 2010, 12:17:47 PM
That's what makes the horror in Alien so different to that of splatter or traditional slasher movies; the violence was invariably so plot-supported and character-relevant that it actually meant something to the audience.
It was 1979. The slasher genre didn't kick into gear until the year after;
Halloween was only released while
Alien was in production.
On that ground there were horror films before that which had some pretty heinous shit that was every bit as plot driven.
Jigoku, for example - Outdated effects out the wazoo, sure, but the entire third act takes place in hell and it's just as plot-and-character relevant as the burster.
More so, maybe.
QuoteIf something the audience has some amount of investment in is violated, that's edging towards the line (or straddling it. Or crossing it. Context sensitive).
But it was done before
Alien and it was done after
Alien and it was done
better than in
Alien.
Alien did some neat stuff, but there was no freakin' line crossing. :P
I'd say it crossed a line for me when I first saw it. Of course, I was around 7 or so.
QuoteIt was 1979. The slasher genre didn't kick into gear until the year after; Halloween was only released while Alien was in production.
There's plenty of slasher-esque films that were in the US before Halloween. Let's take the Deep Red (1975) and Suspiria (1978) that were international hits and much more violent and gory than Alien was even with the chestbuster scene. I guess Alien was a much bigger financial success in the US and much more mainstream pop-culture, so the gore in the chestbuster scene seemed more revolutionary at the time with the gore than it probably really was. I also think it's the surprise element of it. Remember when audiences first viewed this thing, they probably weren't expecting a creature to explode out of Kane's chest and spray gore everywhere.
True, Italian giallo films predate modern slasher movies, but while they share the body counts and creative deaths, they don't follow most of the slasher genre tropes.
Profondo Rosso, for example, is much more a bloody crime/thriller/mystery.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 28, 2010, 05:03:38 PM
Quite positive he only said he was thinking of re-designing the early stages. Whatever that meant.
I just realised, that could mean... :o
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gifbin.com%2Fbin%2F022010%2F1265307948_longcat_alien.gif&hash=5c9095097da8d5dd5286e22394e8e46fffce961e) (http://www.gifbin.com/983876)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi787.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy151%2FTJDocT84%2FSpaceMarinesseal-of-approval.jpg&hash=4266aa5db1cb3c9c5dc12897cec071d8ba62527e)
I'm glad you're getting use out of that. :D
Oh, I don't leave home without it!
Quote from: SiL on May 14, 2010, 12:27:06 AM
True, Italian giallo films predate modern slasher movies, but while they share the body counts and creative deaths, they don't follow most of the slasher genre tropes.
Profondo Rosso, for example, is much more a bloody crime/thriller/mystery.
John Carpenter took a hell of a lot of influence from Deep Red. Even parts of the sound track are similar. He even recycled a kill scene from Deep Red in his script for Halloween II. It's definitely accepted that Amercian slasher genre is the bastard stepchild of the giallo genre defined by people like Mario Bava and Dario Argento. The slasher genre also only dropped the "crime" aspect of the film after Halloween. In Halloween, it's resprestned by Dr. Loomis and Sherrif Bracket. The main thing Carpenter didn't do was hide and then reveal the identity of the killer at the end of the film. He instead used a mask to keep the the audience on edge. Doesn't change the fact that sylistically and violence wise these films definitely had precursors that were pre-Alien.
And I don't think the influence was only on strict slasher movies either. Don Coscarelli for example said the biggest influenced on Phantasm was Suspiria. So those films to me were definitley part of the western consciousness at that point even if they didn't break the boxoffice like the Exorcist or Alien or whatever other 70's horror film.
Quote from: J-Syxx on May 14, 2010, 12:49:09 AM
Quote from: SiL on May 14, 2010, 12:27:06 AM
True, Italian giallo films predate modern slasher movies, but while they share the body counts and creative deaths, they don't follow most of the slasher genre tropes.
Profondo Rosso, for example, is much more a bloody crime/thriller/mystery.
John Carpenter took a hell of a lot of influence from Deep Red. Even parts of the sound track are similar. He even recycled a kill scene from Deep Red in his script for Halloween II. It's definitely accepted that Amercian slasher genre is the bastard stepchild of the giallo genre defined by people like Mario Bava and Dario Argento. The slasher genre also only dropped the "crime" aspect of the film after Halloween. In Halloween, it's resprestned by Dr. Loomis and Sherrif Bracket. The main thing Carpenter didn't do was hide and then reveal the identity of the killer at the end of the film. He instead used a mask to keep the the audience on edge. Doesn't change the fact that sylistically and violence wise these films definitely had precursors that were pre-Alien.
And I don't think the influence was only on strict slasher movies either. Don Coscarelli for example said the biggest influenced on Phantasm was Suspiria. So those films to me were definitley part of the western consciousness at that point even if they didn't break the boxoffice like the Exorcist or Alien or whatever other 70's horror film.
this is the worlds weirdest coincidence
the other day i ordered Master of Horror Volume 1
i watched the first episode this morning.
the first episode is called "Cigarette Burns" and is directed by
John Carpenterat the beginning of the episode, the cinema in the story is showing
Profondo Rosso and the characters talk about it for a bit.
Quote from: J-Syxx on May 14, 2010, 12:49:09 AM
John Carpenter took a hell of a lot of influence from Deep Red. Even parts of the sound track are similar. He even recycled a kill scene from Deep Red in his script for Halloween II. It's definitely accepted that Amercian slasher genre is the bastard stepchild of the giallo genre defined by people like Mario Bava and Dario Argento. The slasher genre also only dropped the "crime" aspect of the film after Halloween. In Halloween, it's resprestned by Dr. Loomis and Sherrif Bracket. The main thing Carpenter didn't do was hide and then reveal the identity of the killer at the end of the film. He instead used a mask to keep the the audience on edge. Doesn't change the fact that sylistically and violence wise these films definitely had precursors that were pre-Alien.
And I don't think the influence was only on strict slasher movies either. Don Coscarelli for example said the biggest influenced on Phantasm was Suspiria. So those films to me were definitley part of the western consciousness at that point even if they didn't break the boxoffice like the Exorcist or Alien or whatever other 70's horror film.
I honestly dunno if we're agreeing or disagreeing or agreeing about disagreeing here :P
I hate the idea of facehuggers making a noise. Same for Xenos. (exept the occasional heavy breathing through teeth and that awesome noise when they get shot)
Quote from: Anto of the Sand on May 16, 2010, 12:02:59 AM
I hate the idea of facehuggers making a noise. Same for Xenos. (exept the occasional heavy breathing through teeth and that awesome noise when they get shot)
Way to completely contradict your original statement. :P
Care to remind me ?
???
Facehugger have always made noise.
You dont get it. He said I was contradicting myself.
What came before the egg then? How many stages did it have?
Should be interesting.
Quote from: SM on May 16, 2010, 11:59:06 PM
???
Facehugger have always made noise.
Yeah, they do. In
Alien, Aliens and
AvP.
And I dont like it.
Tough titties then I guess.