How do you think it was handled?
For me personally this was one of the biggest flaws in the movie. From a very early stage I knew that this Predator was not going to die until the very end of the movie ergo all battles until that point became a foregone conclusion. Straight away this makes it difficult to become immersed in the movie, because I know who will win the fights before they start and any attempt to create thrills are moot. The problem was it didn't even feel like there was much attempt at making the fights thrilling. At no point did I ever think "Uh oh how is he gonna get out of this one?" or "Wow that really demonstrated his skill as an elite Predator".
Examples of poorly handled script immunity include;
Sewer fight - Gets jumped by 2 Aliens who flail around and are completely useless. After being smashed into/through a wall by the Predalien and getting covered in rubble the Aliens... run away? The Predalien just layed the smackdown on the Predator and it... RUNS AWAY?!
Store Showdown - The Predator has lost a shoulder cannon and is facing down 2 Aliens, is he in trouble? What's going to happen? Who knows because all we get is a plasma shot blowing out a window and then the next time we see him, he's fine.
Power plant fight - Does himself a mischief and gets pushed onto a spike. Ouch. Where's the Alien that did the pushing? No where to be found which is lucky because the Predator is immobile and practically blind due to the interference the plant is causing.
Hospital fight - Predalien once again smashes the Predator through a wall leaving him dazed and confused... closes in for the killing blow. Predator gives it a flesh wound from his blades and it... retreats in pain? In fear? Who knows. All I know is the Predalien seems to be doing a lot of retreating in this movie.
Ricky unloads an entire ammo clip from his assault rifle at the Predator. Dispite the fact the Predator isn't wearing much armour, not a single bullet ever hits an exposed piece of flesh. Every single shot ricocheted off his mask or shoulder. Then an Alien ploughs into him and they fall down an Elevator shaft... which evidently causes him no trouble because he's back unscathed for the rooftop finale.
Rooftop finale - After the Predalien disarms him of pretty much everything except his wristblades, it desides to start slapping him around and we get the infamous boxing match scene. Then after giving him a bit of a beating, it just stands there like a lemon while the Predator does a little strip tease. Now, dispite the fact that the Predalien has no thermal signature, dispite the fact that Predators see in infra red and dispite the fact the Wolf is BLIND IN ONE EYE... he is still capable of engaging the Predalien in combat with his bare hands and is even able to catch its inner jaw mid-strike. This then leads us to a scene where the Predalien begins vomiting blood everywhere which somehow never falls onto the Predator, or the Predator is simply immune to it. After almost 80 minutes the Predator's immunity finally runs out and the Predalien is permited to spear him through the chest.
All these examples basically make it impossible for me to become immersed because they constantly made me think "this is stupid" or "why didn't X do Y instead?". Movies don't necessarily have to follow "real" logic but this one didn't even seem to bother with "internal" movie logic either, which made suspension of disbelief a mammoth struggle.
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Jan 03, 2008, 04:54:38 PM
How do you think it was handled?
Initially, when I heard there was one Predator I thought it was great. I'm not a fan of Predators hunting together, and I feel it should always only be one Predator.
Quote
For me personally this was one of the biggest flaws in the movie. From a very early stage I knew that this Predator was not going to die until the very end of the movie ergo all battles until that point became a foregone conclusion. Straight away this makes it difficult to become immersed in the movie, because I know who will win the fights before they start and any attempt to create thrills are moot. The problem was it didn't even feel like there was much attempt at making the fights thrilling. At no point did I ever think "Uh oh how is he gonna get out of this one?" or "Wow that really demonstrated his skill as an elite Predator".
Indeed. Some points it seemed he was some Elite hunter, but other he just looked like a jackass. I had faith initially that he could win these seemingly impossible fights with some creativity, but most of them were just unbelievable.
QuoteExamples of poorly handled script immunity include;
Sewer fight - Gets jumped by 2 Aliens who flail around and are completely useless. After being smashed into/through a wall by the Predalien and getting covered in rubble the Aliens... run away? The Predalien just layed the smackdown on the Predator and it... RUNS AWAY?!
I honestly didn't mind this one as it showed the Predalien was far stronger than him and at the same time it showed that the Predalien's priority was to get to the surface and find host, truely being the Alpha Alien of the situation.
QuoteStore Showdown - The Predator has lost a shoulder cannon and is facing down 2 Aliens, is he in trouble? What's going to happen? Who knows because all we get is a plasma shot blowing out a window and then the next time we see him, he's fine.
Worst and most stupid moment of the film. Could have been a great scene. So shit.
QuotePower plant fight - Does himself a mischief and gets pushed onto a spike. Ouch. Where's the Alien that did the pushing? No where to be found which is lucky because the Predator is immobile and practically blind due to the interference the plant is causing.
I thought it was coming for him, but he blasted at it so it fled.
QuoteHospital fight - Predalien once again smashes the Predator through a wall leaving him dazed and confused... closes in for the killing blow. Predator gives it a flesh wound from his blades and it... retreats in pain? In fear? Who knows. All I know is the Predalien seems to be doing a lot of retreating in this movie.
He cracks out his Pistol and it backs into cover. It was being smart. The same can't be said for the other Alien though. :-\
QuoteRicky unloads an entire ammo clip from his assault rifle at the Predator. Dispite the fact the Predator isn't wearing much armour, not a single bullet ever hits an exposed piece of flesh. Every single shot ricocheted off his mask or shoulder.
No problem with this. The same thing happens in Predator 2. Ricky was most likely aiming at the head.
QuoteThen an Alien ploughs into him and they fall down an Elevator shaft... which evidently causes him no trouble because he's back unscathed for the rooftop finale.
Once again, a wasted opportunity. Could have been so much more.
QuoteRooftop finale - After the Predalien disarms him of pretty much everything except his wristblades, it desides to start slapping him around and we get the infamous boxing match scene
.
No problem so far. A bit silly at times though.
QuoteThen after giving him a bit of a beating, it just stands there like a lemon while the Predator does a little strip tease.
The biggest WTF moment of Alien and Predators career in cinema. Not to mention a poorly executed homage.
QuoteNow, dispite the fact that the Predalien has no thermal signature, dispite the fact that Predators see in infra red and dispite the fact the Wolf is BLIND IN ONE EYE... he is still capable of engaging the Predalien in combat with his bare hands and is even able to catch its inner jaw mid-strike. This then leads us to a scene where the Predalien begins vomiting blood everywhere which somehow never falls onto the Predator, or the Predator is simply immune to it. After almost 80 minutes the Predator's immunity finally runs out and the Predalien is permited to spear him through the chest.
Never thought about the Thermal thing before, but you have a point. There would be no way for him to see it according to Predator and Predator 2, and the beginning of AVPR. I liked the fact he caught the head striker, but what I didn't like was the fact the Predalien missed with the head bite about 5 times. What the f**k? Not to mention, as you said, no a drop of acid hits him. He should've been drenched.
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All these examples basically make it impossible for me to become immersed because they constantly made me think "this is stupid" or "why didn't X do Y instead?". Movies don't necessarily have to follow "real" logic but this one didn't even seem to bother with "internal" movie logic either, which made suspension of disbelief a mammoth struggle.
It was a real 50/50 thing for me. Sometimes I was like 'cool', others I was sighing a lot. The main thing that got to me was the fact that he just wasted everyone with his Shoulder Cannon, and that some of the fights just ended.
But in the end, is Wolf really an Elite Predator? Compared to Scar etc? I suppose so. But compared to Jungle Hunter and City Hunter? No way. He's just a slightly less skilled but more heavily armed version of them.
Quote from: Aeus on Jan 03, 2008, 07:37:43 PM
It was a real 50/50 thing for me. Sometimes I was like 'cool', others I was sighing a lot. The main thing that got to me was the fact that he just wasted everyone with his Shoulder Cannon, and that some of the fights just ended.
But in the end, is Wolf really an Elite Predator? Compared to Scar etc? I suppose so. But compared to Jungle Hunter and City Hunter? No way. He's just a slightly less skilled but more heavily armed version of them.
Well yeah but he was a cleaner pred his purpose wasn't to see how many different ways he could kill an alien but to wipe them out as fast as he could.
My main gripe was how quick we got too every action scene their didnt seem to be enough build up and the whole film did feel short.
Hopefully the extended edition will provide me with the rest of those fight scenes.
I thought the last fight was wicked but short maybe they didnt want a long neo vs smith sort of battle.
Quote from: Aeus on Jan 03, 2008, 07:45:55 PM
Hopefully the extended edition will provide me with the rest of those fight scenes.
Doubtful.
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Jan 03, 2008, 04:54:38 PM
Rooftop finale - After the Predalien disarms him of pretty much everything except his wristblades, it desides to start slapping him around and we get the infamous boxing match scene. Then after giving him a bit of a beating, it just stands there like a lemon while the Predator does a little strip tease. Now, dispite the fact that the Predalien has no thermal signature, dispite the fact that Predators see in infra red ....
No, watch predator one, the predator doesn't see in infra red. Infra red is a mask function. And don't cite predator two, because that was a mistake.
When Chet let Wolf take off all his armor I wanted to throw up :-X
Wolf should have stripped down when running straight for Chet, that would have been a lot more realistic and wouldn't have been so laughable...
Predator showed infra-red when unmasked, too. That's how the cameras saw when they were in the jungle because the ambient temperature was the same as the actors. McTiernan explains everything in the commentary - To get the distinction, they had to either heat up the actors and cool down the environment, or do the whole thing as an effect later.
As for the script immunity, fair enough that Ricky hit his head and shoulders. But how the hell would a teenager running full speed down a corridor not even really aiming his gun have anywhere near enough accuracy to have all his shots hit within such a confined area?
Quote from: SiL on Jan 03, 2008, 08:14:57 PM
Predator showed infra-red when unmasked, too. That's how the cameras saw when they were in the jungle because the ambient temperature was the same as the actors. McTiernan explains everything in the commentary - To get the distinction, they had to either heat up the actors and cool down the environment, or do the whole thing as an effect later.
As for the script immunity, fair enough that Ricky hit his head and shoulders. But how the hell would a teenager running full speed down a corridor not even really aiming his gun have anywhere near enough accuracy to have all his shots hit within such a confined area?
ah that would explain predator 2 then.
Quote from: Aeus on Jan 03, 2008, 07:45:55 PM
Hopefully the extended edition will provide me with the rest of those fight scenes.
I hope so too, and I really wanna see the fight continued down the elavator and how Wolf gets out, but I don't think we will. :'( I also hope that the final rooftop battle is longer too but I'm sure it's not. :( My main gripe is that this film is too damn short. >:(
QuoteBut how the hell would a teenager running full speed down a corridor not even really aiming his gun have anywhere near enough accuracy to have all his shots hit within such a confined area?
the same way he can survive the massive predalien tail (even if it went through the shoulder, it should've taken a huge chunk out).
not to mention rip his lung open, but woo sappy ending he lives, yea! ::)
I was annoyed at all the times where there should have been a fight, but it wasn't shown at all. What happend to Wolf getting progressively more and more messed up from battles during the movie. All that happened is he fell onto something, where the alien didn't even try to get near him to finish him off, and lose a plasma caster. wtf.
The elite pred thing might have been a lot cooler if they had actually make him hunt, fight and act like one, rather than just being lucky.
I guess i can play the massive suspension of disbelief game and say Ricky was somehow able to put every bullet in his magazine right on target on the Predator's head while running and firing full auto, but what got me was why the predator just stood there like an idiot and stared at Ricky as he unloaded an assault rifle into his face. He should have taken off after the first few bullets hit. Doesn't sound like an "elite" thing to do to me. I don't remember the predator in #1 having a stare down with the minigun.
Notice wolf only used his wrist blades once and that was the scene with the predalien in the hospital
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Jan 03, 2008, 04:54:38 PM
Sewer fight - Gets jumped by 2 Aliens who flail around and are completely useless. After being smashed into/through a wall by the Predalien and getting covered in rubble the Aliens... run away? The Predalien just layed the smackdown on the Predator and it... RUNS AWAY?!
I guess you missed the fact that there was a giant pile of cement and rubble between Wolf and the aliens. Besides, The Predalien got in a cheap shot from behind. Its mission is survival, not a showdown with whatever competition comes along.
I understand if you are disappointed or the movie is not what you wanted it to be, but not everything is as you make it out to be.
QuoteI guess you missed the fact that there was a giant pile of cement and rubble between Wolf and the aliens.
Both creatures were smashing through cement and rubble like it was wet paper in this movie. Allowing the Predator to live seems pretty counter productive to the Alien's efforts for survival wouldn't you say?
I'm very disapointed with the medkit scene .... was too short and wolf didn't use more med devices ... I was expected something like Predator 2 or better. Shame.
Quote from: Aeus on Jan 03, 2008, 07:45:55 PM
Hopefully the extended edition will provide me with the rest of those fight scenes.
You were looking for more Combi and Wristblade action too huh. I was. I know he was blasting them with plasma to kill them quick, but they could've made a few more melee fights when they were close to him. His melee weapons are more effective than plasma when they're within striking distance anyways. Like when he slams the Alien against the wall and shoots him in the head instead of cutting it's head off. That was a waste. Also when he pins another Alien on the ground and punches it with his Wristblades RETRACTED and then shoves the blue liquid in it's mouth. Well, atleast he didnt shoot it.
One thing I found amusing was that he unloaded his entire arsenal of weapons onto the predalien...the combistick & whip, which were both completely useless, yet when he used his bare hands, he managed to severely wound it, tearing out its inner jaw.
As far as The Wolf dominating the aliens, it was a completely plausible situation, he was an experienced hunter kitted up from head to toe with weaponry, of course he was going to tear the aliens apart. Some of the scenes were obviously exaggerated though, such as the aliens not clawing him or stabbing him with their tails while he was holding them by the throats in the sewer.
Quote from: Stalker on Jan 04, 2008, 05:24:19 PM
One thing I found amusing was that he unloaded his entire arsenal of weapons onto the predalien...the combistick & whip, which were both completely useless, yet when he used his bare hands, he managed to severely wound it, tearing out its inner jaw.
As far as The Wolf dominating the aliens, it was a completely plausible situation, he was an experienced hunter kitted up from head to toe with weaponry, of course he was going to tear the aliens apart. Some of the scenes were obviously exaggerated though, such as the aliens not clawing him or stabbing him with their tails while he was holding them by the throats in the sewer.
Yea, just a little bit of PIS (plot induced stupidity) there. That was just a flawed way of establishing Wolf as a bad ass along with Chet. You get alot of that kind of thing in comics, so Im used to it.