I haven't watched Aliens in a couple of years but upon re-viewing I just realized what an idiot Gorman was...he made the worst decisions possible. He always came off as inept to me but after re-watching Aliens this time, it just struck me harder.
I guess it was because he didnt have much experience, and what an experience he went through......an alien hive! no wonder he frose still all the time....
"If you shoot in there you might set off a thermonuclear explosion"
"Uhhh...use only flame units...hand all your ammunition to that one dude...and errr proceed"
Quote from: happypred on Dec 09, 2007, 07:26:58 AM
"If you shoot in there you might set off a thermonuclear explosion"
"Uhhh...use only flame units...hand all your ammunition to that one dude...and errr proceed"
Yeah he should have told them why they couldnt use there pulse rifles and smartguns......
Two things that make him fail. First he didn't confidence in his men. He always stayed behind in the vehicle (that may have been part of his job though), and he didn't order the vehicle in to support them when they needed it. His own caution (or fear) worked against him. And second the order to collect the clips was highly questionable. The order should have been not to fire them. Showing the men he doesn't trust them is a bad move.
Either way his failure seems to bother him so much he does not appear to resume command when he comes out of his concussion.
Anyway when he is calm he seems competent enough, but he buckles under pressure.
Quote from: Sprout on Dec 09, 2007, 11:38:06 AM
Two things that make him fail. First he didn't confidence in his men. He always stayed behind in the vehicle (that may have been part of his job though), and he didn't order the vehicle in to support them when they needed it. His own caution (or fear) worked against him. And second the order to collect the clips was highly questionable. The order should have been not to fire them. Showing the men he doesn't trust them is a bad move.
Either way his failure seems to bother him so much he does not appear to resume command when he comes out of his concussion.
Anyway when he is calm he seems competent enough, but he buckles under pressure.
this is how he is,
he buckles under pressure, he acts serious all the time(takes his job seriously) and that prevents him from getting to know his squad etc.
but he isnt as bad as burke......so overall he probably is a good guy but fails what it means to be bonding with his men, which means they dont have respect for him, i mean look how they respect apone.....
Quote from: Darth Vader on Dec 09, 2007, 07:39:34 AM
Yeah he should have told them why they couldnt use there pulse rifles and smartguns......
And he shouldn't have allowed them to use flamethrowers in an
enclosed area.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv338%2Fmaledoro%2FElves%2Fshocked.gif&hash=145bc50fabef3e988af346b7f92b0b0b36374193)
Quote from: maledoro on Dec 09, 2007, 11:55:30 AM
Quote from: Darth Vader on Dec 09, 2007, 07:39:34 AM
Yeah he should have told them why they couldnt use there pulse rifles and smartguns......
And he shouldn't have allowed them to use flamethrowers in an enclosed area.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/maledoro/Elves/shocked.gif
not like they had much choice though ey.
Quote from: Darth Vader on Dec 09, 2007, 11:57:51 AM
not like they had much choice though ey.
Flamethrowers shouldn't have been on the menu when they were loading up. They knew that they were going to go
inside some buildings for their mission. Flamethrowers are for
external use only.
Quote from: maledoro on Dec 09, 2007, 12:02:06 PM
Quote from: Darth Vader on Dec 09, 2007, 11:57:51 AM
not like they had much choice though ey.
Flamethrowers shouldn't have been on the menu when they were loading up. They knew that they were going to go inside some buildings for their mission. Flamethrowers are for external use only.
Ripley might have suggested it?? because she new about the acid blood and all.....
Quote from: Darth Vader on Dec 09, 2007, 12:10:38 PM
Ripley might have suggested it?? because she new about the acid blood and all.....
It's unlikely. First, the marines didn't take her seriously until after their first skirmish with the aliens. Secondly, if it were a real-life situation, the marines would have informed her of the risks and dangers of using flamethrowers in an enclosed space in close quarter combat, such as suffocation of the marines, higher risk of friendly fire (literal) deaths (as the flame units are less predictable than projectile weapons), etc.
Quote from: maledoro on Dec 09, 2007, 01:05:30 PM
Quote from: Darth Vader on Dec 09, 2007, 12:10:38 PM
Ripley might have suggested it?? because she new about the acid blood and all.....
It's unlikely. First, the marines didn't take her seriously until after their first skirmish with the aliens. Secondly, if it were a real-life situation, the marines would have informed her of the risks and dangers of using flamethrowers in an enclosed space in close quarter combat, such as suffocation of the marines, higher risk of friendly fire (literal) deaths (as the flame units are less predictable than projectile weapons), etc.
i dint think the planned on using them.....
Quote from: Darth Vader on Dec 09, 2007, 01:09:46 PM
i dint think the planned on using them.....
Then they wouldn't have taken them. Flamethrowers are used mostly for clearing brush. One of the very few instances that they are used in a combat situation is that the operator would fire a blast into an enemy bunker to either flame the occupants or to burn up their air supply, suffocating them. Of course when he does this, he doesn't go into the bunker; he flames it from outside.
Quote from: maledoro on Dec 09, 2007, 01:14:20 PM
Quote from: Darth Vader on Dec 09, 2007, 01:09:46 PM
i dint think the planned on using them.....
Then they wouldn't have taken them. Flamethrowers are used mostly for clearing brush. One of the very few instances that they are used in a combat situation is that the operator would fire a blast into an enemy bunker to either flame the occupants or to burn up their air supply, suffocating them. Of course when he does this, he doesn't go into the bunker; he flames it from outside.
These guys are
bug stompers. Where are bugs likely to be? There are a million hidey holes for bugs in a place like Hadley's Hope. Can't really imagine an easier or more effective way to clear out a duct, burrow, or other enclosed space than with a flamethrower.
Except as Maledoro just pointed out, you stand outside and fire the flame thrower into the enclosed space. I believe in WWII flame thrower operators had to be able to hold their breath for several minutes because of the fire sucking up all their oxygen and that was when they were standing in the open.
Ripley: How many Drops is this for you Luetenant?
Gorman: 37..simulated.
Vasquez: How many combat drops?
Gorman: 2.. including this one.
Also, he wasn't very prepared for it, or didn't know what he was getting into.
I think Gorman should have pulled his men out the moment Ripley told him they were under a fusion reactor.
You just unknowingly sent all your men into a situation in which they can't fire their guns, why risk everything? Because if he pulled them out he would've looked even more incompetent?
As for flamethrowers, there is a setting to make the stream of flame go out straight and then hook to either side. In an indoor situation, that might be useful in passageways that make abrupt turns...you don't want to go blundering into whatever's waiting for you around the corner. I'm not sure if this setting is actually real because it mentioned in the Colonial Marine Manual
Yeah, he should have pulled them out the moment he found out they were under a fusion reacter.
I always thought he was almost too bad...the company could have chosen him because they wanted them to fail
Yeah, but Burke seemed almost as suprised as Ripley was at how Idiotic, and unexperienced Gorman was.
Quote from: Private Hudson on Dec 09, 2007, 08:05:55 PM
Yeah, but Burke seemed almost as suprised as Ripley was at how Idiotic, and unexperienced Gorman was.
Yeah Burke wasn't faking his exasperation when Gorman said "So what [if they're under a fusion reactor]?"
Exactly my point.
Gorman wasn't the best of leaders. Couldn't keep his wits about him.
Agreed, he was always asking for advice, and was a bit shaky all throughout the movie.
Quote from: Private Hudson on Dec 09, 2007, 09:08:28 PM
Agreed, he was always asking for advice, and was a bit shaky all throughout the movie.
Sweating like a pig as well.
I woulda been to, going against a bunch of aliens.....no way,
and they never believed ripley so they just were going to check on the colonists.....if it was just that he would led them better.....haha even hudson was losing it.... :D
Quote from: happypred on Dec 09, 2007, 07:36:41 PM
As for flamethrowers, there is a setting to make the stream of flame go out straight and then hook to either side. In an indoor situation, that might be useful in passageways that make abrupt turns...you don't want to go blundering into whatever's waiting for you around the corner.
That as may be, but there isn't a setting
anywhere that prevents the flame and heat from sucking the oxygen toward it. Sure, you can shoot a stream of fire down a passageway, but it would still burn up the oxygen in the space around you and could suffocate you.
Quote from: happypred on Dec 09, 2007, 07:36:41 PM
I'm not sure if this setting is actually real because it mentioned in the Colonial Marine Manual
A real handy book that tells everything about weapons, ships and other hardware that have no place in reality. It's a great read for sci-fi, but don't consult it for your next physics exam.
I don't think Gorman made the wrong decisions - he went more by the book. He actually ordered the marines to retreat. Ripley drove the APC into the hive, risking everybody. If an alien got into the APC they would be dead meat.
I think he didn't know much about the mission - he seemed ill-informed about stuff especially the fusion reactor. Hed died like a hero, anyway.
Quote from: gameoverman on Dec 10, 2007, 02:37:51 AM
I don't think Gorman made the wrong decisions - he went more by the book. He actually ordered the marines to retreat. Ripley drove the APC into the hive, risking everybody. If an alien got into the APC they would be dead meat.
I think he didn't know much about the mission - he seemed ill-informed about stuff especially the fusion reactor. Hed died like a hero, anyway.
^ I agree, at least he had the nuts to go down like he did. Can't call him a pussy for that.
He had confidence in them. They just didn't have confidence in him.
It was a character who typified the sort of guy who does tend to get put in that position. Someone who's simulated everything, rose up through the ranks by carrying out textbook actions, with very little clue on how reality can impede on such circumstances.
Was probably trained for every eventuality except for the team going in there, more or less weaponless, plus communications being severely disrupted.
If they were going up against human opponents and communications were no issue, they could have been fine. Especially with individuals such as Apone and Hicks leading on a tactical level.
It's also an extension of the Vietnam analogy. The men trusting their NCO more than the polished by the book officer who is too green to know the practicalities of field combat.
He had to send them into the nest. They needed to find the colonists. But he shouldn't have removed their ammo, and knowing he did should have pulled them out at first sign of trouble.
I also think Gorman was way too much by the book, and was picked by The Company because of his lack of experience so he would f**k up and put the rest of the teams life in jepoday, because he had rank over them. By doing that it makes a better chance of burk getting a specimen on board for the trip back by having the upper rank disposed of so the rest of the team f**ks up.
Well thats my idea.
Quote from: happypred on Dec 09, 2007, 06:56:32 AM
I haven't watched Aliens in a couple of years but upon re-viewing I just realized what an idiot Gorman was...he made the worst decisions possible. He always came off as inept to me but after re-watching Aliens this time, it just struck me harder.
this is a poke at the upper class more educated soldiers of the ww1 era who were given a rank based on education and status (ie. the british pre ww2) as apposed to the battle hardened warriors of the war itself
another thing that i found interesting is when Gorman says its only his second drop Ripley's first thing is to look at Burke
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 15, 2007, 09:09:39 PM
another thing that i found interesting is when Gorman says its only his second drop Ripley's first thing is to look at Burke
Probably because he didn't tell her that Gorman was inexperienced.
Quote from: Alien Freak on Dec 17, 2007, 08:17:59 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 15, 2007, 09:09:39 PM
another thing that i found interesting is when Gorman says its only his second drop Ripley's first thing is to look at Burke
Probably because he didn't tell her that Gorman was inexperienced.
Did burke even know?
Quote from: AvPvTerminator on Dec 18, 2007, 01:54:06 AM
Quote from: Alien Freak on Dec 17, 2007, 08:17:59 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 15, 2007, 09:09:39 PM
another thing that i found interesting is when Gorman says its only his second drop Ripley's first thing is to look at Burke
Probably because he didn't tell her that Gorman was inexperienced.
Did burke even know?
Probably, he just wanted ripley to come with.....
Quote from: Optimus Prime on Dec 18, 2007, 04:12:04 AM
Quote from: AvPvTerminator on Dec 18, 2007, 01:54:06 AM
Quote from: Alien Freak on Dec 17, 2007, 08:17:59 PM
Quote from: Major Alan Schaefer on Dec 15, 2007, 09:09:39 PM
another thing that i found interesting is when Gorman says its only his second drop Ripley's first thing is to look at Burke
Probably because he didn't tell her that Gorman was inexperienced.
Did burke even know?
Probably, he just wanted ripley to come with.....
Burke knew about Gorman I think, he just had his own agenda ,like losing a few Marines was cool as long as he got his big payoff, and he probably knew that if the commander of the Marines was the least bit switched-on i.e. experienced, he probably wouldn't have got away with it. Burke probably saw it as to his benefit that Gorman was fresh so to speak.