Posted by SiL
- Feb 04, 2019, 02:39:35 AMYour post was talking about how the films were sold, not their actual genres. Prometheus was still an adult R rated sci fi horror that hit ask the same bogey men in space beats, but they didn't push that in the marketing.
Posted by PsyKore
- Feb 04, 2019, 01:17:24 AMQuote from: SiL on Jan 23, 2019, 11:20:26 AMQuote from: PsyKore on Jan 23, 2019, 10:57:07 AMThen your argument is marketing is important, and I'm not about to question that because it is.
I disagree. Genre definitely is a factor. Covenant was marketed like a slasher film, to be like a classic Alien movie, with emphasis on gore and the return of the classic creature. Prometheus, even though it's related to the franchise, had much more broader appeal because it wasn't sold like a slasher.
Dafuq?
Posted by The Old One
- Jan 25, 2019, 05:54:46 PMFourth, easily.
Whereas I think Prometheus and Resurrection fluctuate for last place.
I hate what Resurrection did to the lore, and the Resurrection of Ripley.
(Hopefully someday we'll get a film set after Resurrection,
with everything we knew and loved from the OT back- intact and then
this complaint would be mostly non-existant, aside from the cloning itself.)
But as it's self contained thing, it's infinitely more coherent as a film.
Whereas Prometheus' lore creations I really, really appreciate.
The Pathogen, Peter Weyland, the timeline, the gear, the ship.
Aside from the Engineers = Space Jockey concept.
If the Engineers were established as their own thing,
that problem would be solved for me personally but
the film itself, Resurrection's always the victor.
Alien Trilogy, TCF, Isolation, "Covenant", Resurrection, Prometheus.
Whereas I think Prometheus and Resurrection fluctuate for last place.
I hate what Resurrection did to the lore, and the Resurrection of Ripley.
(Hopefully someday we'll get a film set after Resurrection,
with everything we knew and loved from the OT back- intact and then
this complaint would be mostly non-existant, aside from the cloning itself.)
But as it's self contained thing, it's infinitely more coherent as a film.
Whereas Prometheus' lore creations I really, really appreciate.
The Pathogen, Peter Weyland, the timeline, the gear, the ship.
Aside from the Engineers = Space Jockey concept.
If the Engineers were established as their own thing,
that problem would be solved for me personally but
the film itself, Resurrection's always the victor.
Alien Trilogy, TCF, Isolation, "Covenant", Resurrection, Prometheus.
Posted by Voodoo Magic
- Jan 25, 2019, 05:18:37 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 25, 2019, 04:08:26 PM
Covenant's a Romanticism; Gothic Horror in space and if you're not willing to approach it like you would that genre of literature, you're not going to be interested.
If that was the intention, it strikes me as a tad pretentious when viewing the result. Still, I'll try to put myself in that frame of mind the next time I watch it and see if any of my feelings differ towards it.
How would you rank Covenant among the Ripley trilogy?
Posted by The Old One
- Jan 25, 2019, 04:45:42 PMThe forever salivating dong monster will suffice for me. 
I think it would be cooler if the Alien itself, with the invention
of the hive structure terraformed an entire celestial body.
Rather than having David be involved, in that directly.
I think it would be cooler if the Alien itself, with the invention
of the hive structure terraformed an entire celestial body.
Rather than having David be involved, in that directly.
Posted by Necronomicon II
- Jan 25, 2019, 04:38:09 PMYup. Scott's heart lies with David more than anything else, this is clear, yet he still clearly lavishes over scenes like the medbay sequence which is honestly one of the best in the franchise. Just look at that wonderful long-take during the fluting scene, not to mention how much attention he paid personally to the artwork made by Hatton and Hallet. The crew also are much more natural and far less goofy, albeit still foolish, they are at least consistently foolish, unlike the likes of Milburn and Fifield (their deaths are great, however, that helmet melting, mmmm) and their interactions and dialogue are far more natural; no howlers like "I'm here to make money", "I love rocks", "nothing to contribute in the dead body arena", "maybe it's Martian piss", or Vickers' "father", etc. Covenant is a weird hybrid of often subverted Alien tropes and a Victorian Gothic horror ala Frankenstein, Dracula, etc, the entire second act is just...weird, but provocative. The Bosch-esque necropolis visually is far more rich and striking than the lifeless terrain on LV-223, and the revelation that the titular creature and its life cycle reflects a deliberate perversion of human sexuality by a sterile machine going mad while demystifying, is bold and consistent thematically with Giger's aesthetic. There's also the through-line of Wagner combined with Shelley's poem that makes it much more thematically succinct and coherent than Prometheus overall.
David's motivations are clearly delineated from the opening scene, also; the creator/creation dynamic is more clearly presented with Weyland and David's dialogue exchange and interaction there and it also sets up Milton's influence throughout - the white room being heaven, Weyland being the Creator and David being the most brilliant angel that threatens his throne, etc.
Covenant asks the question - what if the Devil or Frankenstein's monster could create? I for one NEED to see David's planet of the juicy dongs.
David's motivations are clearly delineated from the opening scene, also; the creator/creation dynamic is more clearly presented with Weyland and David's dialogue exchange and interaction there and it also sets up Milton's influence throughout - the white room being heaven, Weyland being the Creator and David being the most brilliant angel that threatens his throne, etc.
Covenant asks the question - what if the Devil or Frankenstein's monster could create? I for one NEED to see David's planet of the juicy dongs.
Posted by The Old One
- Jan 25, 2019, 04:08:26 PMThe cast isn't superior to Prometheus' but they're better acted and directed.
The editing in Prometheus is completely f**ked, Covenant's is not.
Covenant knows what it is, Prometheus does not.
Nah, Covenant- aside from the Xenomorph in the ship at the end being somewhat lacklustre but not always- is a superior film.
(when it's standing up and moving around slowly like a man it's pretty fantastic and so is the visuals of the atmospheric decompression.)
Aside from some of the production design of the human crafts, spacesuits and weaponry which I thought were much more interesting looking in Prometheus, Covenant is much, much better film it's probably just that because Prometheus doesn't know what it's about- in your head you can define it therefore in whatever way you want, whereas Covenant actually has a strong narrative theme. As many smarter than me have said, Covenant's a Romanticism; Gothic Horror in space and if you're not willing to approach it like you would that genre of literature, you're not going to be interested.
The editing in Prometheus is completely f**ked, Covenant's is not.
Covenant knows what it is, Prometheus does not.
Nah, Covenant- aside from the Xenomorph in the ship at the end being somewhat lacklustre but not always- is a superior film.
(when it's standing up and moving around slowly like a man it's pretty fantastic and so is the visuals of the atmospheric decompression.)
Aside from some of the production design of the human crafts, spacesuits and weaponry which I thought were much more interesting looking in Prometheus, Covenant is much, much better film it's probably just that because Prometheus doesn't know what it's about- in your head you can define it therefore in whatever way you want, whereas Covenant actually has a strong narrative theme. As many smarter than me have said, Covenant's a Romanticism; Gothic Horror in space and if you're not willing to approach it like you would that genre of literature, you're not going to be interested.
Posted by Voodoo Magic
- Jan 25, 2019, 02:08:32 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 24, 2019, 10:33:28 PM
Lacklustre trailers, title.
With the awareness that Prometheus was crap, a sense of "Oh you won't fool me this time, Ridley Scott!" was in the air,
which most likely contributed to it's decrease in commercial success despite IMO, being a superior film in the narrative.
While Prometheus had just a wonderful, thrilling final trailer, I would agree Covenant trailers were very lackluster. I honestly would equate that result to the film itself feeling lackluster. Watching Covenant gives me the feeling that Ridley Scott was just going through the motions, and his heart was no longer in it, if that makes any sense.
I'm not at all calling Prometheus a perfect film, but for me, nothing is superior in Covenant over Prometheus. From casting, to acting, to the narrative, to pacing and direction, Covenant just fails in almost every comparison.
Posted by Evanus
- Jan 25, 2019, 05:08:45 AMQuote from: SiL on Jan 25, 2019, 04:27:29 AMI did not say it's a bad script. I do think it's pretty mediocre overall, but it certainly doesn't ruin the film for me because of the reasons I stated earlier.
A bad script is a fairly strong argument to say it's a bad film, wouldn't you agree?
Posted by SiL
- Jan 25, 2019, 04:27:29 AMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 25, 2019, 02:44:48 AMNot your list.
It is my opinion that Covenant's script is superior to Prometheus'
"Oh you won't fool me this time, Ridley Scott!" is in reference to
Prometheus' script, and therefore a lack of anticipation towards 2017's Alien.
Quote from: Evanus on Jan 25, 2019, 02:47:52 AMA bad script is a fairly strong argument to say it's a bad film, wouldn't you agree?
Not to say I hate the script, it's just that it's definitely a weak point of the film.
Posted by Evanus
- Jan 25, 2019, 02:47:52 AMQuote from: SiL on Jan 25, 2019, 01:30:09 AMWell, yeah. I was listing things I like about the film. Not to say I hate the script, it's just that it's definitely a weak point of the film.
"The script" is conspicuously absent from the list.
Posted by The Old One
- Jan 25, 2019, 02:44:48 AMIt is my opinion that Covenant's script is superior to Prometheus'
"Oh you won't fool me this time, Ridley Scott!" is in reference to
Prometheus' script, and therefore a lack of anticipation towards 2017's Alien.
"Oh you won't fool me this time, Ridley Scott!" is in reference to
Prometheus' script, and therefore a lack of anticipation towards 2017's Alien.
Posted by SiL
- Jan 25, 2019, 01:30:09 AM"The script" is conspicuously absent from the list.
Posted by The Old One
- Jan 25, 2019, 01:16:25 AMFair enough.
Posted by Evanus
- Jan 24, 2019, 11:52:50 PM
Oof
Well, it's obviously a flawed film like Covenant but the visuals, special effects, music and acting (Fassbender mostly) is why I still love it. I guess it's sort of a matter of opinion anyway.
