Should there be an Alien-Predator Multiverse?

Started by RakaiThwei, Jan 08, 2014, 09:31:01 PM

Should there be an Alien-Predator Multiverse?

Yes, I think there should be an Alien-Predator Multiverse.
No, I don't think there should be an Alien-Predator Multiverse.
There already is an Alien-Predator Multiverse.
Author
Should there be an Alien-Predator Multiverse? (Read 44,676 times)

RakaiThwei

Something which I wanted to hear from the fans and maybe even discuss. Let me get out that THIS IS NOT A CANON DEBATE but rather a discussion of an idea which may or may not be a neat idea to implement into the franchises. I have always believed that the idea of a multiverse opens up a lot of doors in the realm of fiction. The idea of a multiverse is something which is even discussed in the scientific community, and there is even evidence that our reality is one of many existing in a multiverse.

http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=5907

So I was pondering the idea of an Alien-Predator multiverse. You have three franchises (or four if you're counting Prometheus) with different storylines and different continuities. Considering the idea of the multiverse, there is no reason to believe that the history of one universe isn't different from another. Scientist have considered the idea that there is one universe which differs from ours such as Dinosaurs not being extinct among endless of other universe. Some have considered the idea of universes which have similar histories to our own but have different divergences from our own.

So what does the fandom think of the idea of an Alien-Predator multiverse?

SM

You need an option for 'Yes, there already is a multi-verse'.

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#2
Quote from: SM on Jan 08, 2014, 10:26:38 PM
You need an option for 'Yes, there already is a multi-verse'.

Consider that added as of now!

But regarding that, it would be nice for Fox to actually address something like that, kind of like what Mirage Studios did for TMNT and Hasbro for Transformers.. I doubt that would ever happen though.

-Rakai'Thwei

SM

Thank you.

It would seem that Fox is moving ahead with an attempt at a more cohesive continuity in upcoming releases starting with Out Of The Shadows.

I don't know if they're going to address the myriad existing releases going back 25 years - but the new continuity may tacetly put them in a seperate continuity, thereby creating a multiverse (for those who don't believe one already exists).

RakaiThwei

Quote from: SM on Jan 08, 2014, 10:36:14 PM
It would seem that Fox is moving ahead with an attempt at a more cohesive continuity in upcoming releases starting with Out Of The Shadows.

I don't keep up with the news on the Alien books which are being released. I am more of a Predator and AvP fan than just strictly Alien, but I have noticed that Fox is seemingly going out of their way to re-invent the Alien and Predator franchises. Especially with the new comics, which I have been fortunate enough to get in touch with one of the writers.

Quote from: SM on Jan 08, 2014, 10:36:14 PM
I don't know if they're going to address the myriad existing releases going back 25 years - but the new continuity may tacetly put them in a seperate continuity, thereby creating a multiverse (for those who don't believe one already exists).

So far a lot of companies really don't address previous releases, and I don't think that Fox would openly address such things. As we know they don't really care so much about maintaining continuity, and the start of a new one seems relatively easier to go that route. And of course we do know that they don't say anything on what's canon and what isn't. I for one believe or would like to believe, that there is an Alien-Predator multiverse, and I've been comparing the franchises to other unrelated franchises that have a similar situation-- such as Godzilla and Transformers. Godzilla has a nice thing going for it, and how the Kaiju eiga films such as Showa, Heisei, and Millennium don't acknowledge the previous films from certain eras. Then again I don't think Toho has addressed the idea of the multiverse for Godzilla, and that might be a generally accepted fan thing.

So I am relatively open to the idea that there is an Alien-Predator multiverse. Considering that Fox is going on ahead by rebooting the expanded universe materials such as the Alien books, and of course the Dark Horse comics.. That maybe the case. Then again the idea of the multiverse for Alien and Predator probably isn't new, considering the films and the different routes they go in.

-Rakai'Thwei

Xenomrph

Quote from: SM on Jan 08, 2014, 10:36:14 PM
I don't know if they're going to address the myriad existing releases going back 25 years - but the new continuity may tacetly put them in a seperate continuity, thereby creating a multiverse (for those who don't believe one already exists).
If Dark Horse's new comics are any indication, there definitely isn't a multiverse - they've been planning on having their four Aliens, Predator, AvP, and Prometheus series reference each other and be part of "a larger story".

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#6
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 09, 2014, 08:19:58 AM
If Dark Horse's new comics are any indication, there definitely isn't a multiverse - they've been planning on having their four Aliens, Predator, AvP, and Prometheus series reference each other and be part of "a larger story".

But the IO9 Articles did say that they were ignoring the previous publications altogether, and from the small talks that Christopher Sebela and I have had over at Tumblr, they they weren't even taking any of the past 25 years of material into consideration and account for them either. Sebela likens them to different neighborhoods in a big city..

Whatever that means but to me it sounds like a new continuity altogether.

And assuming what SM says regarding the books such as Out of the Shadows.. well, that may be the case. Assuming what he says turns out to be true.

-Rakai'Thwei

Xenomrph

None of that really changes what I said, though - it's not a multiverse if it all takes place in the same universe. :)

The Necronoir

I think it's fairly irrefutable that there already is a multiverse at work. The original Aliens comic run became a 'what if' scenario the moment Alien 3 was created, and then potentially reinserted within that continuity by the Hicks>Wilks / Newt>Billie / Ripley>Android retcon. There are probably many other examples, but these are the most apparent. Whether you reconcile this within the logic of the series as the traditional sci-fi idea of parallel universes is another matter. That kind of thing works thematically for a series like The Terminator, where time travel and the possibility of changing the future are central ideas, but perhaps only serves to distract in this instance.

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 09, 2014, 08:52:54 AM
None of that really changes what I said, though - it's not a multiverse if it all takes place in the same universe. :)

AvP films included?

Quote from: The Necronoir on Jan 09, 2014, 09:24:46 AM
I think it's fairly irrefutable that there already is a multiverse at work. The original Aliens comic run became a 'what if' scenario the moment Alien 3 was created, and then potentially reinserted within that continuity by the Hicks>Wilks / Newt>Billie / Ripley>Android retcon.

I do remember the original Aliens comics which was intended to serve as a sequel to where ALIENS left off of, in fact I have some of the earlier comics when the Xenomorphs invaded Earth and when I had looked at the novels which were retconned to compensate for the Alien 3 movie, at first I had no idea that Billie and Wilks were meant to be Hicks and Newt until I researched this online years later on. With the retcons in place, I had assumed for years that they could still fit but now I'm reconsidering that.

Quote from: The Necronoir on Jan 09, 2014, 09:24:46 AM
There are probably many other examples, but these are the most apparent. Whether you reconcile this within the logic of the series as the traditional sci-fi idea of parallel universes is another matter. That kind of thing works thematically for a series like The Terminator, where time travel and the possibility of changing the future are central ideas, but perhaps only serves to distract in this instance.

The idea of a parallel universe doesn't necessarily need to be addressed. There are plenty of franchises out there that have different continuities which are explained as parallel universes without being addressed as such openly. The Godzilla franchise has this idea going for it for a lot of their films and licensed media. So why can't Alien-Predator?

Russ

I think multi-verse in story telling is a bit of double edged (or infinite edged) sword. Yes, it clears up some problems (Weyland vs Weyland, Hick vs Wilkes etc), but as time goes on, it can almost become a de-facto clause for "doing something a bit different." And then you can end up in a big mess.

Much like DC - they did away with the multi-verse in 1985 (I think) and slowly brought it back in. So much so that what was an "event" became a cliche.

So not for me - I'm hopeful that they can tie it all up with a neat bow. Though, it may mean that (as much as I love these movies) AvP and AvP:R may become the Superman III and IV of the franchise and be handwaved as SM says.

Cheers

Russ

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#11
Quote from: Russ on Jan 09, 2014, 10:15:42 AM
I think multi-verse in story telling is a bit of double edged (or infinite edged) sword. Yes, it clears up some problems (Weyland vs Weyland, Hick vs Wilkes etc), but as time goes on, it can almost become a de-facto clause for "doing something a bit different." And then you can end up in a big mess.

Again, the idea of the multiverse doesn't have to be openly addressed in the storylines. I do agree that it does clear up some problems here and there but I also don't think that it would be a bad thing. We already have storylines which actually do infact do something differently, and I could think of one off the top of my head. The Shirley and Greenberg novels completely eschew the Yautja mythology and installed the Hish mythology-- this storyline went on for two books.

Quote from: Russ on Jan 09, 2014, 10:15:42 AM
Much like DC - they did away with the multi-verse in 1985 (I think) and slowly brought it back in. So much so that what was an "event" became a cliche.

So not for me - I'm hopeful that they can tie it all up with a neat bow. Though, it may mean that (as much as I love these movies) AvP and AvP:R may become the Superman III and IV of the franchise and be handwaved as SM says.

DC's Infinite Crisis storyline in 1985 was a means to actually reboot their own franchises. All of the previous storylines prior to 1985 were simply retconned specifically in the storyline as being reality warped to form a new Earth, namely Earth-2. I am not at all suggesting that if there is an Alien-Predator multiverse that there should be an Infinite Crisis thing going on. No. None of the proposed multiverse actually has to interact with each other. Nor should they be aware of each other's existence. I would suggest actually looking at the Godzilla franchise, the Showa, Heisei and Millenium eiga films are all regarded as separate universes (the Millennium series being a more extreme case with only the Kiryu storyline being the only continuity) but they don't acknowledge one another as they aren't aware of each other.

I don't think that tying all of the films or the licensed material would work too well. Sure, a lot of fans have worked in ways to retcon it all int working but that's all fanon and I wouldn't count that. Unless someone at Fox actually takes the time and effort to do it, I wouldn't count anything unofficial.

As for AvP and AvP-R, well.. Fox hasn't given any word on their status in canon however it should be noted that AvP2010 continued on with their storyline and to a lesser extent-- so did AvP: Evolution though it did so somewhat ambiguously (since the film ties in PREDATORS which apparently has NOTHING to do with AvP). But on that note, ignored films doesn't necessarily mean retconned or even jettisoned from canon. There are a lot of films which have continuities which are ignored by other sequels which happen to be direct sequels to the first film which creates different continuities-- again, look at the Godzilla franchise to see what I mean. Look at Highlander as well.

That maybe the case between AvP, PREDATORS, and Prometheus.

SpreadEagleBeagle

SpreadEagleBeagle

#12
Multiverse is fine since its impossible for it all to (co)exist in the same universe for plenty of obvious reasons.

Darth Rinzler

I think I found the artical about the reboot and canon but to be sure could someone post it?

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Jan 13, 2014, 02:16:31 AM
I think I found the artical about the reboot and canon but to be sure could someone post it?

There are numerous threads for it in the literature section. We've already have that covered.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 12, 2014, 06:58:36 PM
Multiverse is fine since its impossible for it all to (co)exist in the same universe for plenty of obvious reasons.

I can pretty much concur with this, especially how some events conflict with each other such as Weyland Industries vs Weyland Corp. And then there are different cuts of certain films like Alien 3.

-Rakai'Thwei

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