What's in your Personal Canon?

[Xenomrph]

Yeah, for the most part the overarching "canon" is the movies for the purposes of discussion on this forum, although "officially" according to FOX all of it is considered canon (movies, novels, games, comics, etc), regardless of contradictions.

Ultimately it's up to the individual as to what they want to consider canon for themselves.

[Mr. Domino]

The idea of canon is dumb. Its all stories. If you enjoy the story, you've enjoyed the story. If you don't enjoy the story, then you didn't enjoy it. But you should judge the story on its own merits, not on whether or not it conforms to some "universally accepted canon". For all I care, each movie, film, book, comic, game, etc. could be completely independent, only sharing some common elements. I enjoy most of it, and I collect everything under the franchise (singular) banner.

[The PredBen]

Well generally if something started in the Movies like Alien or Predator then movies are canon.

But if something starts in comics like Superman then comics are the real canon ( although comics dying may make movies canon. )

for example when Harley Quinn was interduced in the Batman TV show she was so popular they had to make her Canon by putting her in the comics.

But for a film series films are Canon.

For example if someone says " Predators have no honor " and you say " Well what about that game/comic " they can " overrule " you!

[Xenomrph]

That isn't entirely accurate - if you want to go with "official" views on canon as if it's some kind of fact, that's dependent on the franchise owners and what they consider to be canon.
With Stargate, the original movie actually isn't considered canon anymore by the franchise owners, but the spin-off TV series are canon. With Star Trek, the TV shows and movies are canon, but the myriad novels, video games, etc are not. With Star Wars, everything is canon but it's on a sort of "ranking" system where if contradictions arise, higher ranking sources overrule lower-ranking ones.

It really varies from franchise to franchise, but ultimately the fans can choose what they want to be "canon" for themselves. Obviously in movie-specific discussions it's only courteous to stick to the movies, but if people want to talk about the comics or whatever it's not exactly courteous to stomp into the discussion and declare that the comics "aren't canon" or something.

[RakaiThwei]

Well it depends which franchise which you want to go with... According to a FAQ with Rebellion, Fox considers the stories between Predator, Alien, and AvP to be totally seperate from each other and therefore, different cotinuities.

Alien Franchise is still the Alien Franchise. Per Rebellion's Q&A, Fox considers Aliens, Predators, and AvP to be different franchises / continuities. I'll see if I can find the direct quote.

EDIT: Here it is - http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=29172.msg646408#msg646408

That's a fairly accurate summary of part of the issue.  The other part is because the Aliens vs Predator story is considered by Fox to be separate to the other franchises.

To me, I follow the AvP cotinuity which goes the following:

Spoiler

Predator Cotinuity

Predator
Predators

Alien Cotinuity
Untitled Alien Prequel
Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien Ressurrection

Alien vs Predator Cotinuity

Alien vs Predator (10,000 BC)
Predator
Predator 2
Alien vs Predator (2004 AD)
Aliens vs Predator Requiem
Predator: Concrete Jungle
Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien vs Predator (Atari Jaguar)
Alien vs Predator (PC)
Alien vs Predator 3 (Set 30 years after Alien 3)
Aliens vs Predator 2 (Set 50 years after Alien 3)
Alien vs Predator: Prey
Aliens: Berserker
Aliens vs Predator: Duel
Aliens vs Predator: War
Aliens vs Predator: Hunter's Planet
Alien Ressurrection

[close]

In the end, it's all subjective and it's up to the fan to follow which cotinuity which he wants to follow. If they want to follow strictly Predator, then Aliens aren't in that particular universe and AvP never happened, and vice verse if they want to follow Alien just strictly.

But if you wish to follow AvP, then yes, the movies happened and both creatures occupy the same universe.

-Rakai'Thwei

[Xenomrph]

The more I think about that quote the more I think Trigger was referring to licensing and not necessarily "continuities", which is something we knew Fox did anyway. Like, we knew Gearbox has licensed 'Aliens: Colonial Marines' as an 'Aliens' game only, so they actually couldn't include Predators in it, whereas 'Predator: Concrete Jungle' got licensed as both a 'Predator' and an 'AvP' game, which is why it has a whole bunch of nods to the Alien and AvP franchise as well. A lot of the comics and whatnot are somewhat similar, where some "AvP" specific stories will include references to things that happened in specifically "Aliens" or "Predator" comics.
Trigger's comment doesn't really make sense in terms of "continuities", because it's clear that the AvP stuff is meant to occupy the same continuities as the A and P stuff, what with pulse rifles, "Weyland-Yutani", etc, not to mention the titular creatures. So for storytelling purposes they're meant to occupy the same "continuity, but in terms of licensing, that's a practice we knew Fox has been doing for a while.

It's similar with the Terminator franchise, where a whole bunch of different companies actually own the rights to different aspects of the Terminator franchise. There are 'Terminator Salvation' comics that are licensed from a different company than the one that owns the rights to 'The Terminator', but the storytelling implication is that they all take place in the same "continuity", even if legally the 'The Terminator' comics can't make reference to "T-1000s" or "hydrobots" and whatnot.

[RakaiThwei]

You bring up a good point Xenomrph, but what about word from the directors of each of the films themselves?

For example, Paul Anderson said that AVP was the sequel to the first two Predator films, but also the prequel to the ALIEN film. By that logic, so is AvP.

But Rodriguez is saying that his movie is the real sequel to the original, and he's not acknowledging Predator 2, AvP, or AvP and it doesn't connect with the Alien films whatsoever. Antal even has said there is no influence of AvP in the film either.

As for the Ridley-Scott Alien prequel, we know his feelings towards AvP, so it's safe to say he's ignoring them to.

I see these franchises as seperate cotinuities then.

Convince me otherwise, I'm listening.

-Rakai'Thwei

[Xenomrph]

Well there's a difference between directorial intent, and what the franchise owners (FOX) think. Like, another Paul WS Anderson movie, 'Soldier', is meant to take place in the same universe as 'Blade Runner' according to Paul Anderson, but legally that isn't the case.

[RakaiThwei]

Well there's a difference between directorial intent, and what the franchise owners (FOX) think. Like, another Paul WS Anderson movie, 'Soldier', is meant to take place in the same universe as 'Blade Runner' according to Paul Anderson, but legally that isn't the case.

If thats the case, then Alex Young also could back up Rodriguez's claim, or rather he said it first that this new Predator film has nothing to do with AvP or the Alien films at all. And according to my research on the guy, he's  Co-President at Fox unless I am mistaken.

Again, convince me, Xenomrph. You seem to be one of the nicer people here.

But.. since Fox's stance is that "Everything is canon", regaurdless of the contradictions, even if they are glaringly visible, there seems to be no set cotinuity is there. With the whole issue on comics, novels, games, movies-- if everything is canon then Yautja, Hish, Mutant Predators, all exist in one cotinuity and what we get is a mess.

I suppose this is where personal canon comes in, eh?

-Rakai'Thwei

[SM]

Kinda has too since the myriad contradictions throughout the different media make a single continuity of events impossible.

[ShadowStalker]

Indeed personal canon, but i try not to worry about this canon stuff and enjoy it! We have two wonderful alien species here just enjoy what we get even if it not all that well, or able to understand on where it all resides


And just why is called "Canon" in the first place?

[SM]

It's a term nicked from religion to deteremine what is true and what isn't.  ie.  All the books in the Bible are considered canonical (very broadly speaking), while others like the Gospel of Judas, or the Gospel of Mary Magdalene aren't.

[Mr. Domino]

Basically it started as a way for nerds (not a knock, I am one) to say that the aspects of their favorite franchise they liked were somehow more right than the aspects they didn't like, and its grown from there.

[ShadowStalker]

Hm mm ok i think i like SM explanation but very good also Mr. Domino lol two good insights thank you

[Xenomrph]

Well there's a difference between directorial intent, and what the franchise owners (FOX) think. Like, another Paul WS Anderson movie, 'Soldier', is meant to take place in the same universe as 'Blade Runner' according to Paul Anderson, but legally that isn't the case.

If thats the case, then Alex Young also could back up Rodriguez's claim, or rather he said it first that this new Predator film has nothing to do with AvP or the Alien films at all. And according to my research on the guy, he's  Co-President at Fox unless I am mistaken.

I guess it depends on how you want to look at it. 'AvP' pretty much requires a semi-working knowledge of the Alien and Predator movies to really "get" what's going on and have it mean something, whereas you can watch 'Predator2' and you don't need to be familiar with 'Aliens' at all for it to make sense. Similarly, 'Predators' likely won't require any knowledge of AvP or Aliens (or apparently, 'Predator 2') but the implication is that they're still part of the same over-arching "universe". I.e., Dutch and Ripley are both characters who lived in the same "universe", albeit separated by over a hundred years.

It's similar with a lot of the Aliens/Predator/AvP comics - they'll stand alone within their own "franchise" and it's not like you need a working knowledge of "AvP" to understand 'Aliens: Berserker', but the characters from Berserker still carry over into 'AvP: War'.

But.. since Fox's stance is that "Everything is canon", regaurdless of the contradictions, even if they are glaringly visible, there seems to be no set cotinuity is there. With the whole issue on comics, novels, games, movies-- if everything is canon then Yautja, Hish, Mutant Predators, all exist in one cotinuity and what we get is a mess.

I suppose this is where personal canon comes in, eh?

-Rakai'Thwei

You hit the nail right on the head.
The "mess" doesn't bother some people; I like working around it and coming up with ways to "fix" it, but that's just my personal preference.