"The Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory," Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War - AvP Galaxy Podcast #137

Started by Corporal Hicks, Dec 21, 2021, 05:01:13 PM

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"The Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory," Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War - AvP Galaxy Podcast #137 (Read 2,769 times)

XenoHunter99

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 27, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
I think it was the "Xeno Defender" in Aliens: Infiltrator that pushed me over-the-top with Pheremones. But alas, it probably comes down to execution. There was a concept in Alien: Into Charybdis I normally absolutely loathe, but I loved it in that book!

I see. I haven't got to Infiltrator, but I think you're absolutely right about execution!

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Dec 28, 2021, 04:24:44 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 27, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
I think it was the "Xeno Defender" in Aliens: Infiltrator that pushed me over-the-top with Pheremones. But alas, it probably comes down to execution. There was a concept in Alien: Into Charybdis I normally absolutely loathe, but I loved it in that book!

I see. I haven't got to Infiltrator, but I think you're absolutely right about execution!

Wait till you read Infiltrator. Afterwards, you may end up in these very threads saying Ya know, I used to like the idea of pheromones...   :D

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#17
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 27, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Dec 27, 2021, 02:23:18 PM
Pheremones are fine. Biological compounds have long been part of the lore in Alien(s) EU. There is the bit with the Royal Jelly and all that. Admittedly, pheremone signals are not as exciting as dreams transmitted across the cosmos, but they're reasonable for close-range control. Plus the Killers go in for broad-spectrum electromagnetic jamming, so radio controls wouldn't really work for them. What would you use instead?

I think it was the "Xeno Defender" in Aliens: Infiltrator that pushed me over-the-top with Pheremones. But alas, it probably comes down to execution. There was a concept in Alien: Into Charybdis I normally absolutely loathe, but I loved it in that book!

To be fair, there's very little in Infiltrator that is executed as well as it could be.  :-X In regards to the pheromones' though, that concept pre-dates Infiltrator by quite some time. It was first introduced in 1992 in Hive/Harvest, returned again in Stronghold in 94 (I incorrectly say Labyrinth instead of Stronghold in the episode) and was also how they saw in the 00s AvP games so the concept has existed for a long time. It's one of the reasons it worked for me in 3WW, it had precedence and was another one of those continuity moments in the series that I just enjoyed. It's poor execution in Infiltrator doesn't ruin it for me.


Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 26, 2021, 11:08:30 PM
2. And no, you get an ACM style Spitter from the dogs from Predators apparently, according to Prodos AVP.

Did not remember that. Serves me right for not looking at that expansion. But not something I'd subscribe to.  :laugh: As much as I enjoyed the mechanics and models of that game, didn't pay attention to its lore.


Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Dec 28, 2021, 04:24:44 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 27, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
I think it was the "Xeno Defender" in Aliens: Infiltrator that pushed me over-the-top with Pheremones. But alas, it probably comes down to execution. There was a concept in Alien: Into Charybdis I normally absolutely loathe, but I loved it in that book!

I see. I haven't got to Infiltrator, but I think you're absolutely right about execution!

I wouldn't rush to it. You're not missing much. It's a spattering of "oh, cool" thoughts and moments, that are quickly pissed away and moved from. I still think not focusing it around Monica and the relationship dynamics around that are it's biggest waste though.

BlueMarsalis79

I think it makes sense from an aesthetic and lore standpoint though, it's got spikes all over the body like the potential for argument's sake host, and like the Alien spawned of animals from our world it can spit acid and unlike the ones spawned from sapience primarily moves on all fours.

Considering the Vootervert Alien's essentially described as a Alien that only took on the useful traits of the host animal from Phalanx I think this tracks.

And with the way The RPG's repurposed the Royal Jelly, and thus the Charger and Praetorian, I think it works in nicely.

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 29, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
I think it makes sense from an aesthetic and lore standpoint though, it's got spikes all over the body like the potential for argument's sake host, and like the Alien spawned of animals from our world it can spit acid and unlike the ones spawned from sapience primarily moves on all fours.

I definitely prefer the look of Prodos' Spitters compared to Colonial Marines. You'll get no argument from me there!

QuoteConsidering the Vootervert Alien's essentially described as a Alien that only took on the useful traits of the host animal from Phalanx I think this tracks.

Missing that acid spitting trait from the hounds, though. "Realistically" speaking though, all the Aliens should have this capability, but I understand and like the Spitters as in-game units for video or board games. Just not sold on the hounds making sense as the hosts for them.

BlueMarsalis79

Who says they don't have that?

I reckon, all types of Runners or animal born Alien types can spit acid, Spitters just get more range hence the name.

XenoHunter99

Thanks Hicks and Voodoo. Yes, I read (heard?) reviews and opinions on Infiltrator. Not top of to-do list, but still might check it out to see. Hicks, I remember there was earlier use of pheremones and you remember where. Even if you looked it up, that's impressive. :D

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 29, 2021, 10:02:26 PM
Who says they don't have that?

Ah, the evidence of absence thing.  :P Sure, if they want to go down that route purely to make this work, then I'll roll my eyes and go aight. That said, it just reads an arbitrary "we've got this here, and this here. Let's mash them up." Just doesn't feel natural to me.

And I was of course joking about the tusked Aliens coming from the hounds in the episode. I'm not actually married to the idea.

QuoteI reckon, all types of Runners or animal born Alien types can spit acid, Spitters just get more range hence the name.

It should just be a trait all of them have IMHO. Regardless of host. Just seems far too useful a universal trait.


Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Dec 29, 2021, 10:44:28 PM
Thanks Hicks and Voodoo. Yes, I read (heard?) reviews and opinions on Infiltrator. Not top of to-do list, but still might check it out to see. Hicks, I remember there was earlier use of pheremones and you remember where. Even if you looked it up, that's impressive. :D

First use was Hive/Harvest, then again in Stronghold. It was Hive/Harvest I had to be reminded about after the Infiltrator episode. That's not a story I come back to very often.

BlueMarsalis79

If they all could do it, we'd have seen it in Aliens, at several points it would have been useful. Perhaps it's something only juveniles can do normally, during moulting, when the body's basically rebuilding itself like we see in Alien³ itself. Who knows.

SiL

We see a human born Alien do it in Resurrection.

BlueMarsalis79

Oh yeah, but you already know how people write that one off.

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#26



I do understand that no "normal" human borns have demonstrated the ability. I just think it's too useful, and they should have it, without the need for the dna reflex.

BlueMarsalis79

And yet it's curious I can't recall a single piece of material showing them doing it other than Resurrection itself. Sure you have AVP Extinction but that again restricts it to a particular caste. Like ACM.

SiL

It shows up in some of the side scrollers.

BlueMarsalis79

Makes me wonder why no Alien spat on the glass in Resurrection.

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