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AvP Merchandise => Alien-Predator Literature => Topic started by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 21, 2021, 05:01:13 PM

Title: "The Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory," Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War - AvP Galaxy Podcast #137
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 21, 2021, 05:01:13 PM

We have just uploaded the 137th episode of the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast (right-click and save as to download)! For our last episode of 2021, we’re continuing our tradition of talking specifically Alien vs. Predator in December and the regular crew are back to finish talking about Machiko Noguchi’s story with Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War!

We talk the imagery of the Aliens on leases, Machiko Noguchi and Randy Stradley’s farewell to Aliens and Predators, the controversial artwork of Rick Leonardi, and plenty more!

At one point in the episode, we’re talking about grenades. We don’t clarify in the audio version, but on the video version you see me demonstrating how the grenades in Aliens had the push caps, rather than the traditional pull-rings used currently. Adam also briefly mentions a Prime1 bust of the tusked Aliens from this comic (and More Than Human) which you can find here. We also talk about the number of artists on the previous AvP title, War, and incorrectly say it’s two, when it was actually four different artists.

What did you think of our latest episode? Be sure to let us know down below! You can also listen to any of our previous episodes in the Podcast section under the News tab on the main menu. The Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast is also available via iTunes, PodBean, GooglePlay Stitcher, and Spotify! Please be sure to leave a rating and review on whichever platform you're using!

And if you'd rather see our beautiful faces, as always the video version of the podcast is also available on the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy YouTube channel!

And as 2021 draws to a close, I would like to thank all our listeners and viewers who have continued to listen to and support the podcast over this year. We hope you’ll stick around and continue to support us as we head into another year of talking Alien and Predator!

Make sure your browsers are locked into Alien vs. Predator Galaxy for the latest Alien and Predator news! You can also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube to get the latest on your social media walls. Be sure to join in with fellow Alien and Predator fans on our forums as well!

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Title: Re: &ampquot;The Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,&ampquot; Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three
Post by: Kradan on Dec 21, 2021, 06:43:49 PM
Yay !  :)
Title: Re: &ampquot;The Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,&ampquot; Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three
Post by: Lost_Hunter on Dec 22, 2021, 04:13:35 AM
Great podcast guys! Where you been hiding? Yeah, dunno, always liked this one. Definitely one of the better AVP comics for me. Really dug the art, Rick Leonardi does a bang up job. Finally got to see the Colonial Marines from the movie and different Pred tribes are a must. Hope everyone is doin well and Happy Holidays.
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 22, 2021, 09:55:59 AM
I've always understood some of the dislike that the artwork gets. There's a lack of detail in the none-action sequences that I completely understand, and I still think that money-shot panel of them coming down the ramp is just bad, but when stuff is kicking off and there's movement and action, I think his style works so incredibly well.
Title: Re: &ampquot;The Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,&ampquot; Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three
Post by: Lost_Hunter on Dec 22, 2021, 06:53:18 PM
Heard that! There's a couple of those wide shots that would be awesome to see in live action or an animation.
Title: Re: "quotquotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator:
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Dec 24, 2021, 08:14:26 PM
The podcast was fun. I read the books. Better late than never, I guess. The cover arts look enticing. The interior art is the other half of the discussion from episode 135, where some of us talked about fresh-drawn art vs. illustration produced by other means. I think the drawings here were, in places, too abstract. But the art was functional in telling the story.

Machiko's armor was from the skimpy sexy school of armor design. All she needed was some spike high heels to be perfect. >_> I realize Pred armor doesn't really cover that much of the body. But the Preds have thick lizard skin and cloaking screens; so maybe this is no matter?  ??? I'm sure it's fine.

Her method of introducing herself to the Hunter tribe was a bit over the top. Hard to believe that worked out for her, but OK.

The Killers' armor seemed Samurai-inspired. If you accept the in-universe idea that Predators have been keeping watch over and periodically hunting humans, Samurai armor could be inspired by these Predators' armor. That's a different spin, isn't it?

Spoiler
The human-predator alliance have bad luck in battle - Nothing goes to plan!

A lot of the criticism levelled in the podcast makes sense. For instance, why wouldn't the human ships already have anti-jamming missiles or some sort of EMP weapons? Why wouldn't the Hunters have something for that? It's odd. I enjoyed the story, though.

I like that Machiko got something resembling a happy resolution to her story arc. I would assume that she goes back to her life like the survivor of a William Gibson novel and leaves the next adventure to someone else - But in that universe, they might all still end up face-hugged. Just sayin'  :P
[close]

And with that, Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to all of you :)
Title: Re: "quotquotquotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquotquotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Pr
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Dec 26, 2021, 06:38:42 PM
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Dec 24, 2021, 08:14:26 PM
Machiko's armor was from the skimpy sexy school of armor design.

Where is this school and do they offer scholarships? :D
Title: Re: "quotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three Wo
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Dec 26, 2021, 10:36:25 PM
@Voodoo, LOL! While I'm not sure exactly where the school is located, I think the bulk of graduates end up making content for comics, video games, some movies, and especially the Daz/Poser communities.  ;D
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 26, 2021, 11:08:30 PM
1. I think Machiko Noguchi was butchered ever since War, and this' just adds more fuel to that bland fire.

2. And no, you get an ACM style Spitter from the dogs from Predators apparently, according to Prodos AVP.

3. And frankly f**k the pheromone nonsense.
Title: Re: "quotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three Wo
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Dec 26, 2021, 11:41:30 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 26, 2021, 11:08:30 PM
3. And frankly f**k the pheromone nonsense.

My sentiments align with Blue, just with a less colorful presentation. :)
Title: Re: "quotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three Wo
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Dec 27, 2021, 02:23:18 PM
Pheremones are fine. Biological compounds have long been part of the lore in Alien(s) EU. There is the bit with the Royal Jelly and all that. Admittedly, pheremone signals are not as exciting as dreams transmitted across the cosmos, but they're reasonable for close-range control. Plus the Killers go in for broad-spectrum electromagnetic jamming, so radio controls wouldn't really work for them. What would you use instead?
Title: Re: "quotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three Wo
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 27, 2021, 03:19:58 PM
Nothing. The story's shit right down to the bones.
Title: Re: "quotquotquotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquotquotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Pr
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Dec 27, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Dec 27, 2021, 02:23:18 PM
Pheremones are fine. Biological compounds have long been part of the lore in Alien(s) EU. There is the bit with the Royal Jelly and all that. Admittedly, pheremone signals are not as exciting as dreams transmitted across the cosmos, but they're reasonable for close-range control. Plus the Killers go in for broad-spectrum electromagnetic jamming, so radio controls wouldn't really work for them. What would you use instead?

I think it was the "Xeno Defender" in Aliens: Infiltrator that pushed me over-the-top with Pheremones. But alas, it probably comes down to execution. There was a concept in Alien: Into Charybdis I normally absolutely loathe, but I loved it in that book!
Title: Re: "quotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three Wo
Post by: Kradan on Dec 27, 2021, 06:06:59 PM
Speaking of artwork,  I might need to re-read it but I've never had any issues with artwork in Three World War. In comparision, I found artwork  in the second Machicko-centered AvP series, AvP: War (aside from prologue issue that was drawn by different artist and looked fantastic) to be frustratingly bad
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 27, 2021, 07:21:28 PM
*Posts deleted to keep things civil. Don't continue in that direction please.
Title: Re: "quotquotquotquotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquotquotquotquot Reviewing Alien
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Dec 28, 2021, 04:24:44 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 27, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
I think it was the "Xeno Defender" in Aliens: Infiltrator that pushed me over-the-top with Pheremones. But alas, it probably comes down to execution. There was a concept in Alien: Into Charybdis I normally absolutely loathe, but I loved it in that book!

I see. I haven't got to Infiltrator, but I think you're absolutely right about execution!
Title: Re: "quotquotquotquotquotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquotquotquotquotquot Reviewi
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Dec 29, 2021, 02:34:56 AM
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Dec 28, 2021, 04:24:44 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 27, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
I think it was the "Xeno Defender" in Aliens: Infiltrator that pushed me over-the-top with Pheremones. But alas, it probably comes down to execution. There was a concept in Alien: Into Charybdis I normally absolutely loathe, but I loved it in that book!

I see. I haven't got to Infiltrator, but I think you're absolutely right about execution!

Wait till you read Infiltrator. Afterwards, you may end up in these very threads saying Ya know, I used to like the idea of pheromones...   :D
Title: Re: "quotquotquotquotquotquotquotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquotquotquotquotquot
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 29, 2021, 08:34:54 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 27, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Dec 27, 2021, 02:23:18 PM
Pheremones are fine. Biological compounds have long been part of the lore in Alien(s) EU. There is the bit with the Royal Jelly and all that. Admittedly, pheremone signals are not as exciting as dreams transmitted across the cosmos, but they're reasonable for close-range control. Plus the Killers go in for broad-spectrum electromagnetic jamming, so radio controls wouldn't really work for them. What would you use instead?

I think it was the "Xeno Defender" in Aliens: Infiltrator that pushed me over-the-top with Pheremones. But alas, it probably comes down to execution. There was a concept in Alien: Into Charybdis I normally absolutely loathe, but I loved it in that book!

To be fair, there's very little in Infiltrator that is executed as well as it could be.  :-X In regards to the pheromones' though, that concept pre-dates Infiltrator by quite some time. It was first introduced in 1992 in Hive/Harvest, returned again in Stronghold in 94 (I incorrectly say Labyrinth instead of Stronghold in the episode) and was also how they saw in the 00s AvP games so the concept has existed for a long time. It's one of the reasons it worked for me in 3WW, it had precedence and was another one of those continuity moments in the series that I just enjoyed. It's poor execution in Infiltrator doesn't ruin it for me.


Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 26, 2021, 11:08:30 PM
2. And no, you get an ACM style Spitter from the dogs from Predators apparently, according to Prodos AVP.

Did not remember that. Serves me right for not looking at that expansion. But not something I'd subscribe to.  :laugh: As much as I enjoyed the mechanics and models of that game, didn't pay attention to its lore.


Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Dec 28, 2021, 04:24:44 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 27, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
I think it was the "Xeno Defender" in Aliens: Infiltrator that pushed me over-the-top with Pheremones. But alas, it probably comes down to execution. There was a concept in Alien: Into Charybdis I normally absolutely loathe, but I loved it in that book!

I see. I haven't got to Infiltrator, but I think you're absolutely right about execution!

I wouldn't rush to it. You're not missing much. It's a spattering of "oh, cool" thoughts and moments, that are quickly pissed away and moved from. I still think not focusing it around Monica and the relationship dynamics around that are it's biggest waste though.
Title: Re: "quotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three Wo
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 29, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
I think it makes sense from an aesthetic and lore standpoint though, it's got spikes all over the body like the potential for argument's sake host, and like the Alien spawned of animals from our world it can spit acid and unlike the ones spawned from sapience primarily moves on all fours.

Considering the Vootervert Alien's essentially described as a Alien that only took on the useful traits of the host animal from Phalanx I think this tracks.

And with the way The RPG's repurposed the Royal Jelly, and thus the Charger and Praetorian, I think it works in nicely.
Title: Re: "quotquotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator:
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 29, 2021, 08:32:21 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 29, 2021, 05:00:04 PM
I think it makes sense from an aesthetic and lore standpoint though, it's got spikes all over the body like the potential for argument's sake host, and like the Alien spawned of animals from our world it can spit acid and unlike the ones spawned from sapience primarily moves on all fours.

I definitely prefer the look of Prodos' Spitters compared to Colonial Marines. You'll get no argument from me there!

QuoteConsidering the Vootervert Alien's essentially described as a Alien that only took on the useful traits of the host animal from Phalanx I think this tracks.

Missing that acid spitting trait from the hounds, though. "Realistically" speaking though, all the Aliens should have this capability, but I understand and like the Spitters as in-game units for video or board games. Just not sold on the hounds making sense as the hosts for them.
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 29, 2021, 10:02:26 PM
Who says they don't have that?

I reckon, all types of Runners or animal born Alien types can spit acid, Spitters just get more range hence the name.
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: XenoHunter99 on Dec 29, 2021, 10:44:28 PM
Thanks Hicks and Voodoo. Yes, I read (heard?) reviews and opinions on Infiltrator. Not top of to-do list, but still might check it out to see. Hicks, I remember there was earlier use of pheremones and you remember where. Even if you looked it up, that's impressive. :D
Title: Re: "quotquotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator:
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2021, 08:23:09 AM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 29, 2021, 10:02:26 PM
Who says they don't have that?

Ah, the evidence of absence thing.  :P Sure, if they want to go down that route purely to make this work, then I'll roll my eyes and go aight. That said, it just reads an arbitrary "we've got this here, and this here. Let's mash them up." Just doesn't feel natural to me.

And I was of course joking about the tusked Aliens coming from the hounds in the episode. I'm not actually married to the idea.

QuoteI reckon, all types of Runners or animal born Alien types can spit acid, Spitters just get more range hence the name.

It should just be a trait all of them have IMHO. Regardless of host. Just seems far too useful a universal trait.


Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Dec 29, 2021, 10:44:28 PM
Thanks Hicks and Voodoo. Yes, I read (heard?) reviews and opinions on Infiltrator. Not top of to-do list, but still might check it out to see. Hicks, I remember there was earlier use of pheremones and you remember where. Even if you looked it up, that's impressive. :D

First use was Hive/Harvest, then again in Stronghold. It was Hive/Harvest I had to be reminded about after the Infiltrator episode. That's not a story I come back to very often.
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 30, 2021, 11:04:35 AM
If they all could do it, we'd have seen it in Aliens, at several points it would have been useful. Perhaps it's something only juveniles can do normally, during moulting, when the body's basically rebuilding itself like we see in Alien³ itself. Who knows.
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: SiL on Dec 30, 2021, 11:50:15 AM
We see a human born Alien do it in Resurrection.
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 30, 2021, 12:02:58 PM
Oh yeah, but you already know how people write that one off.
Title: Re: "quotquotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator:
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2021, 12:23:05 PM



I do understand that no "normal" human borns have demonstrated the ability. I just think it's too useful, and they should have it, without the need for the dna reflex.
Title: Re: "quotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three Wo
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 30, 2021, 12:38:08 PM
And yet it's curious I can't recall a single piece of material showing them doing it other than Resurrection itself. Sure you have AVP Extinction but that again restricts it to a particular caste. Like ACM.
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: SiL on Dec 30, 2021, 12:44:05 PM
It shows up in some of the side scrollers.
Title: Re: "quotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three Wo
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 30, 2021, 12:52:25 PM
Makes me wonder why no Alien spat on the glass in Resurrection.
Title: Re: "quotquotquotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquotquotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Pr
Post by: Kradan on Dec 30, 2021, 12:59:34 PM
Or why Runner couldn't melt that big ass door in AC

Even though it retroactively presents some logical issues I do agrre with Corporal. It's extremely usefulc ability and ever Xeno should be able to do it. And it can't be restricted to DNA reflex. Let's take Runner from Alien 3 - it was born from dog/ox - neither of these animals are able to spit out their blood or any other kind of liquid for attack as far as I remember
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 30, 2021, 01:02:22 PM
That's a bit different, it could be at that for days with the thickness of it.
Title: Re: "quotquotquotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquotquotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Pr
Post by: Kradan on Dec 30, 2021, 01:05:24 PM
It's thick but it's not endless. Small amount of facehugger's blood from Alien was able to melt through a couple decks and I would imagine these to be pretty thick too
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 30, 2021, 01:40:14 PM
Yeah but judging by Christie's face, it's diluted by comparison to the actual blood.
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: Kradan on Dec 30, 2021, 03:49:19 PM
 ;D

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 30, 2021, 12:02:58 PM
Oh yeah, but you already know how people write that one off.
Title: Re: "quotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three Wo
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 30, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
Knew that was coming lol

Title: Re: "quotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three Wo
Post by: Kradan on Dec 30, 2021, 03:57:02 PM
Too bad Murphy got sliced. He would've been a better example
Title: Re: "quotquotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quotquot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three Wo
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2021, 03:58:07 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Dec 30, 2021, 01:40:14 PM
Yeah but judging by Christie's face, it's diluted by comparison to the actual blood.

I wonder if the Aliens are capable of controlling the level/severity of what they're doing with acid. The facehugger knows how far to go to get through that helmet and not injure the host. The Warrior in Resurrection knew how much to use to disable, but not kill, Christie, so he was still a viable host.
Title: Re: "quotThe Ultimate Betrayal - The Denial Of Glory,"quot Reviewing Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Post by: Kradan on Dec 30, 2021, 04:04:37 PM
Xeno's blood as corrosive as movie needs it to be