Michael Biehn - It's Going to Happen

[HuDaFuK]

Cameron wanted his happy family at the end. Hicks died at the end of the original treatment, but plot wise he'd served his purpose.

Actually, that's an interesting point I'd forgotten about. Originally he didn't even survive the second movie.

[Russ]

Ripley thinking she'd saved Newt only for her to die is exactly what happened in the film we got.

Yes. But meaninglessly. Its not even a plot point - its just getting rid for convenience's sake. As I say, I could - at a stretch - buy a chestburster... because we didn't actually see Newt the whole time she was cocooned (as I type I realise that I'd really be reaching if that had of happened) and it would have least have given resonance to the tragic death.

But as it is, its just poor. For me, Alien3 has right ending in the wrong film.

[Kurai]

I think I'm in the minority here...

I wasn't a fan of Alien 3, but I hate partial retcons even more.

I understand exactly why some want the retcon and if back in the day, before Alien 3 was released, we had an option between the two I'd have totally been a strong advocate for Blomkamp's idea.

But Alien 3 was released and now I'd prefer new content continuing the story we have which, regardless of how weird it may be, is quite cool and can include Ripley[8].

Spoiler

From what we can tell from the novels, Ripley 8 even has a kid eventually so family idea in tact!

[close]

That said... Think of it like a group of popular novels that have fallen into the public domain. Someone is bound to write THEIR sequel to one of the books and it may even lead down a totally different path. Alien 5 can be written off as glorified Aliens fanfiction, which it honestly is, not in a derogatory sense but in the sense that Blomkamp is a fan of Aliens and wants that to be his foundation regardless of the future movies.

Ripley 8 said it best in the Aliens vs Predator vs Terminator comic:

"They stole my soul. They took away my death. They have the desire and ability to torture me endlessly...
Lifetime after lifetime after lifetime!
I will not risk that again! I will not risk what little peace I've found down here!"

That sums up my feelings on retcons and Blomkamp's Alien 5 in particular.

[BishopShouldGo]

Aliens is lauded for expanding the the world of the series but all anybody's wanted since then is to rush back to the safe confines of Aliens' world. People don't give a flying f**k about expanding or developing anything, they just want more of the same with bigger set pieces. Alien Resurrection opened up a whole new world of possibilities and opportunities and nobody wants to touch any of it with a ten foot pole.

Alien Resurrection had great ideas but poor execution. And it also didn't do anything with its ideas.

And Neill's xeno suit for Ripley is pretty A:R-y.

[Corporal Hicks]

Ripley and co. are at the center of the Aliens universe.

The over-reliance on Ripley is the single worst thing affecting the franchise at the moment. They really need to move on.

This. 100% this. It's restricting to the story and the scope of the universe. The Ripley-less films have been brought up in a pointed way of looking at their quality but the lack of Ripley isn't tied into the quality of Prometheus or the AvPs. Neither is the quality of Alien 3 or Resurrection's quality based on a lack of Hicks or Newt. They need the right people behind these films, the right team. Alien is more than just Ripley and more than just Weaver.

Perhaps this whole passing of the torch thing that Biehn keeps talking about (and I've heard it elsewhere too) might finally be the move on from Fox's relance on that name. It's just a shame it takes a retcon to get there.

Life isn't fair, but movies aren't life. Movies are an escape from life.

True enough but the Alien films feel very grounded in reality. They aren't fantastical. They don't make a big deal out of the futuristic technology. They're about a giant space bastard who eats, kills and rapes people! Alien 3 felt very much in tone with that.

To be fair, it's this that has me most hesitant about the retcon. An alternate timeline just doesn't feel right to me. It doesn't feel like it belongs to the Alien films.

Cameron wanted his happy family at the end. Hicks died at the end of the original treatment, but plot wise he'd served his purpose.

Actually, that's an interesting point I'd forgotten about. Originally he didn't even survive the second movie.

I think that was just the treatment. I think when they went to scripting, he made it out.

[Perfect-Organism]

The Alien films used to be grounded in reality.  But Alien Resurrection brought us a clone who has all her memories intact from just a few droplets of blood.  Then there is Prometheus which allows the reading of dreams and the reactivation of dead people with a syringe doo-hickey.  I mean that was basically what that technology was which they used to reanimate the Engineer who was essentially human.

Retconning Alien 3 will do away with the madness of Alien Resurrection.  The only reason why the whole resurrection-device is tolerable in Prometheus is because overall the movie is just so damn good.  It actually gets better with age.

[Kurai]

The Alien films used to be grounded in reality.  But Alien Resurrection brought us a clone who has all her memories intact from just a few droplets of blood.  Then there is Prometheus which allows the reading of dreams and the reactivation of dead people with a syringe doo-hickey.  I mean that was basically what that technology was which they used to reanimate the Engineer who was essentially human.

Retconning Alien 3 will do away with the madness of Alien Resurrection.  The only reason why the whole resurrection-device is tolerable in Prometheus is because overall the movie is just so damn good.  It actually gets better with age.

A:R's clones are fairly easily explained by the binding of Alien DNA within Ripley, multiple sources from the expanded universe have put forward, before A:R, that the Aliens have a genetic memory and a hive mind, so that's perfectly believable. On a scientific side, there is research going into whether phobias are sometimes passed down genetically, so there's that.

Genetic Memory:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/genetic-memory-how-we-know-things-we-never-learned/

Genetically Inherited Fear:
https://www.rewireme.com/insight/can-phobias-be-inherited-genetically/


As for Prometheus and dream reading, there is again research going into that sort of thing these days with some successes, though the idea of perfectly edited and shot dreams may be a bit far fetched.

The reanimation of the Engineer head was thanks to the Synapse Reestablisher.
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Synapse_Reestablisher

Basically they did what people have been doing for centuries just in a more advanced fashion. They're sending electrical impulses to the various synapses to cause muscle movement and activity in the head. Many experiments have done similar things going all the way back to the time public beheadings were legal in Europe.

http://gizmodo.com/5504746/how-a-real-life-dr-frankenstein-reanimated-the-dead-with-electricity

[Perfect-Organism]

The Alien films used to be grounded in reality.  But Alien Resurrection brought us a clone who has all her memories intact from just a few droplets of blood.  Then there is Prometheus which allows the reading of dreams and the reactivation of dead people with a syringe doo-hickey.  I mean that was basically what that technology was which they used to reanimate the Engineer who was essentially human.

Retconning Alien 3 will do away with the madness of Alien Resurrection.  The only reason why the whole resurrection-device is tolerable in Prometheus is because overall the movie is just so damn good.  It actually gets better with age.

A:R's clones are fairly easily explained by the binding of Alien DNA within Ripley, multiple sources from the expanded universe have put forward, before A:R, that the Aliens have a genetic memory and a hive mind, so that's perfectly believable. On a scientific side, there is research going into whether phobias are sometimes passed down genetically, so there's that.

Genetic Memory:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/genetic-memory-how-we-know-things-we-never-learned/

Genetically Inherited Fear:
https://www.rewireme.com/insight/can-phobias-be-inherited-genetically/


As for Prometheus and dream reading, there is again research going into that sort of thing these days with some successes, though the idea of perfectly edited and shot dreams may be a bit far fetched.

The reanimation of the Engineer head was thanks to the Synapse Reestablisher.
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Synapse_Reestablisher

Basically they did what people have been doing for centuries just in a more advanced fashion. They're sending electrical impulses to the various synapses to cause muscle movement and activity in the head. Many experiments have done similar things going all the way back to the time public beheadings were legal in Europe.

http://gizmodo.com/5504746/how-a-real-life-dr-frankenstein-reanimated-the-dead-with-electricity

A well researched, and interesting response.  Thanks.  These were a good read.

I am not sure I would buy the wholesale storage of completely detailed memories in drops of blood.  I can understand phobias, and certain life and death scenarios being hard wired into our genetic memories, but a language, and specific event memories?  Come on.  It was a desperate ploy on behalf of the writers to find a way to bring Ripley back.  It made the movie somewhat cheap, but I will still enjoy this film as an alternate reality attempt.

The reanimation of the Engineer's head in Prometheus indeed made no sense to me until the article you pointed out.  I guess that could work, and there was no implication that the engineer actually "came back to life".

[SM]

Resurrection didn't present wholesale storage of completely detailed memories in drops of blood.

[Perfect-Organism]

Yes it did.  How did it not?

[Kurai]

Ripley 8 was very much her own character, she learned things far faster than normal and she had some latent memories but nothing too out there. The fork scene comes to mind. XD

The rest was just filled in by the army people.

[Perfect-Organism]

She had a complete grasp of the English language with accent.  As time went by, more and more was coming back to her.  That's wholesale.

[SM]

If by "wholesale" you mean "it's made quite clear there are large gaps in her memory".

[Kurai]

She had a complete grasp of the English language with accent.  As time went by, more and more was coming back to her.  That's wholesale.

Not right from the start, we get given scenes where she doesn't understand fully but is catching on very fast, such as asking what a fork is and then calling it a f**k.

We also don't know the various time gaps between scenes before the Betty arrives.

Also, Language Savants are a thing:
https://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/professional/savant-syndrome/resources/articles/the-polyglot-language-savant/

[Russ]

Neither is the quality of Alien 3 or Resurrection's quality based on a lack of Hicks or Newt. They need the right people behind these films, the right team. Alien is more than just Ripley and more than just Weaver.

Perhaps this whole passing of the torch thing that Biehn keeps talking about (and I've heard it elsewhere too) might finally be the move on from Fox's relance on that name. It's just a shame it takes a retcon to get there.

The quality of Alien3 - no, I'd have to agree, but as I've been banging on about is that the characters and situations were just poorly handled in 3. But as you say, you need the right people behind the films.

The passing the torch thing I agree with - I'm sure neither Ripley or Hicks will make it out of 5 - they shouldn't (or if they do have it made clear that they're not coming back in anyway shape or form).

It IS a shame that it has to be retconned, though. I think my point is - if Hicks and Newt were handled properly in 3, Rippers died in 3... I don't think that A:R matters so much in the continuity because that's in the future and much more easily retconned or just... not dealt with.

But to go back a step - right people / right team is essential. Blomkammp has all the right credentials - as did, I have to say, Paul WS Anderson. He gave a shit. Blomkamp gives a shit. It's really now what Fox will let him do.

Say what you will - Event Horizon might as well sit along side Outland as "unofficial alien verse movie" - it was brilliant. But Fox wanted a cheap movie made in a Prauge warehouse that they KNEW WS could turn in. I wish AvP had been R-Rated, I wish that Anderson's original concepts (which from the Special Features seem far more wide reaching than what the studio actually approved) were borne out - I think he's a great Alienverse candidate. Or would have been, given some latitude.

Enter Blomkaamp, a chappie (see what I did there) with similar credentials and similar fannish love for the series. So - on circumstantial evidence... the right man for the job. BUT... will he be allowed to write the story he - and many - want to tell?

My guess is that with Covenant admitting that the "real" Alien is back, perhaps the success of that film will have a bearing on 5 (am I right in thinking its Covenant - then Covenant sequel - THEN Alien 5). If the audience desire for Alien movies is proven, he may be given the budget and the levity do what he wants.

But I'll eat my metaphorical hat if the 3 and A:R aren't hypersleep dreams as we've discussed many times. It's shit, I agree... but for me, its the only way to be sure.