Expanded Universe

[Local Trouble]

Church was the most complex and interesting villain we had. One of the main reasons Labyrinth is my favorite alien novel.

Is the novel really anything special without the art?

[Samhain13]

All alien villains are pretty much just crazy and evil, they are suppose to be like that after all. But Church was something more, his character stood out more than the others.

Church was the most complex and interesting villain we had. One of the main reasons Labyrinth is my favorite alien novel.

Is the novel really anything special without the art?

I think the characters and their dynamic is improved in the novel. Its a more detailed and developed version of the comic that gives more info about things and what is going in the characters's heads. Its hard for me to get into characters on comics, on novels its easier to develop and make the reader understand them and I care more about writing than art.

So despite the comic being top on that, I prefer Perry's storytelling of Church's backstory and the rest.

[Kenner_Alien_Kaste]

How is she a Mary-Sue?

Well, personally for me it's the fact she's both an impeccably well put together hybrid of Android and Xenomorph, has very powerful abilities (control over Xenomorphs, can fend off Yautja and Marines and Rival Hives alike) and has next to no flaws. It just comes off as very overpowered and not in a good way.

[The Old One]

Eloise is 100% a ridiculous Mary Sue, and so is the character of Machiko Noguchi past the original AVP.
And Herk Mondo is a Gary Stue, but a intentional one.

The Alien/AVP EU's got a lot of trash, such as Xenogenesis, DOTS, Colonial Marines, but most of the time even the trashy stuff is enjoyable on it's own merit and the mediocre entries just don't tonally suit the universe ultimately (compromised by one or more outlier concepts) the latest amongst;
The Rage War, OotS/RoP/SoS,
Fire & Stone/Life & Death.

But the real good stuff, such as Isolation, Salvation, Sacrifice, Survival, Wraith, Glass Corridor, Alchemy, Labyrinth, Infestation, Dead Orbit, Dust To Dust, The Original AVP, Monolith's AVP and The Cold Forge.
Means it's worthwhile wading through.

[Kimarhi]

I don't really hate any of them.  They were such a part of my growing up (most of them came out when I was a preteen-teen) that I have a huge soft spot for almost all of them. 

Even things like DOTS and Colonial Marines. 

I recognize their flaws but I'm much easier on the EU than the movies because I don't really look at them as effecting continuity with the movie series. 

That being said even what I consider to be the good shit has flaws.  I love AvP2s world building but hate its presentation.   I like Outbreaks overall concept of the Alien/Earth takeover but something feels slightly tonally off where it still feels like Alien Universe-lite.  I can't quite describe it but many of the early comics have it (and by extension the novels).  Very few feel serious enough.  It's like if Alien was PG13 instead of rated r.  I get the feeling that DH either told the writers to kind of handle the series with kid gloves OR the earlier comics were just held to the storytelling of comics at the time.  I LOVE Isolation's presentation and storytelling..........but find the gameplay to be an absolute chore. 

I actually feel that even if I find some of the newer stories mediocre (I'm thinking the Prometheus addition to the EU lore) that things like Defiance feel more like the Aliens movies than the older comics.  But the comic medium as a whole has ALSO taken a step forward in more serious storytelling.  I'm more inclined to believe that the 80-90's comics were simply the products of that generation of storytelling.


Even people's mentalities were different back then.  The little write ins at the back issues of the comics where fans talked to the DH staff are so different to the type of shit you'd encounter today. 

[The Old One]

I think you're totally right, and with stories such as Saga now the forefront of the industry today for other properties the bar is raised.

[SM]

Church was the most complex and interesting villain we had. One of the main reasons Labyrinth is my favorite alien novel.

Is the novel really anything special without the art?

It's decent enough.

How is she a Mary-Sue?

Well, personally for me it's the fact she's both an impeccably well put together hybrid of Android and Xenomorph, has very powerful abilities (control over Xenomorphs, can fend off Yautja and Marines and Rival Hives alike) and has next to no flaws. It just comes off as very overpowered and not in a good way.

A mix of Alien and android is always going to be powerful.  That doesn't scream Mary-Sue though.  I've always seen Mary-Sues as author inserts of characters that are far too perfect.  It just seems to be a catch-all term for 'female characters that are too powerful and I don't like them' these days.

Even people's mentalities were different back then.  The little write ins at the back issues of the comics where fans talked to the DH staff are so different to the type of shit you'd encounter today. 

Oh, yes.  One of the benefits of having the old single issues is the letters column.

[Kimarhi]

I remember reading one where the people were complaining that Henry in the Colonial Marines was to formulatic and that formula was wearing thin.  DH staff told them to wait.

I believe the next issue he left Nyland to have her head exploded by the proximity charge. 

[SM]

 

[Xenomrph]

Labyrinth is still my favorite EU story, and I've actually come to like it more over the years.

There's quite a bit I haven't read in a long time, but I barely have enough time to keep on top of *new* material, let alone revisit old stuff. It's kind of depressing.

[Kimarhi]

I've been waiting as the new stuff comes out in TPB format and buying/reading them that way.


I haven't looked at the old EU comics in years now.

[Wweyland]

I find it amusing. There's loads of stuff from several decades, some of it great, some of it terrible. It doesn't fit together that well but its fun nonetheless.
The Star Wars EU probably had slightly better continuity but wasn't much better in term of quality.

[Kenner_Alien_Kaste]

A mix of Alien and android is always going to be powerful.  That doesn't scream Mary-Sue though.  I've always seen Mary-Sues as author inserts of characters that are far too perfect.  It just seems to be a catch-all term for 'female characters that are too powerful and I don't like them' these days.

I suppose that's fair-I'm not trying to forcibly crap on someone else's opinion (Hell, I like the Clone Xenos so I'm not anyone who deserves to say anyone's opinions are wrong. And I may be using Mary Sue wrong, but I still think a female Android-Xeno hybrid with incredible powers done completely unironically feels way too OP and not enjoyable at all in my opinion. But hey, to each their own and I see your point-I want this to be a discussion, not to have me turn it into a circle-jerk

[[cancerblack]]

SM is using the correct/original definition of Mary Sue, but it really has evolved to just mean "overpowered woman character" and such use is accurate (if mildly obnoxious imo) in the modern context.

[Nostromo]

Had to pick awesome due to the nice stories and abundance of them, coming out in Books, Movies, Youtube videos, comics, etc etc loving it all good times!