I remembered Oscar Winner Natalie Portman was the first choice of FOX or/and Ridley Scott.
Gemma Arterton was also under consideration, I'd certainly have preferred her over Portman. I think Noomi sold me on the blinkered blind faith angle though, so no complaints on the actual eventual casting.
I was perfectly fine with Noomi Rapace in Prometheus as well. Neither her, nor her character was one of my issues with the film.
Noomi Rapace was very good. She just wasn't or isn't famous.
At the beginning, FOX and Ridley Scott wanted a more famous cast:
1.- Natalie Portman was the first choice. Rapace was the second choice.
2.- Leonardo DiCaprio was the first choice for David. Michael Fassbender was their second choice.
I'd say they made the correct casting choice with Rapace and Fassbender then. Fassbender is a better actor than DiCaprio, and Natalie Portman doesn't look 'gritty' enough for the Alien universe.
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Jul 29, 2017, 06:21:35 PM
I'd say they made the correct casting choice with Rapace and Fassbender then. Fassbender is a better actor than DiCaprio, and Natalie Portman doesn't look 'gritty' enough for the Alien universe.
I don't know about Fassbender versus DiCaprio. Both of them are great. They are in the same highest level.
Natalie Portman is Winona Ryder 2. And Ryder was in an ALIEN movie.
Quote from: PierreVW on Jul 29, 2017, 06:27:11 PM
I don't know about Fassbender versus DiCaprio. Both of them are great. They are in the same highest level.
DiCaprio is a good actor, but Fassbender has more range. He's able to convey a lot to the audience through very slight changes to his facial expressions, which is not something DiCaprio ever really did.
Quote from: PierreVW on Jul 29, 2017, 06:27:11 PM
Natalie Portman is Winona Ryder 2. And Ryder was in an ALIEN movie.
I wouldn't be that harsh with Natalie Portman, but as far as I'm concerned this just proves my point.
I prefer good actors over famous actors. The two things are not mutually exclusive - but star names do not sell an Alien film for me.
More interested in the director, and that's what brought me back to Alien - the prequels..
It's hard to imagine Prometheus without Rapace. Her performance was acclaimed and with good reason. She had an inner strength and physical ability far beyond what Portman has. Portman is a fine actress, but she is more vulnerable and less physical. On the other hand, if Portman had played the part, Covenant would never have existed. Instead, we would have had Prometheus 2, it would have come out years earlier, had a bigger budget, and would have been massively better than Covenant, imo. But I'm still glad Rapace played Shaw. She was the right choice for the role.
I thought she was perfect in the role and wish she was in COVENANT.
They probably thought she would be a big draw in other territories like Europe. It wasn't that long after she really got noticed in the Millennium Trilogy and Fincher was doing the remake of The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, so the original was getting noticed more. Plus she was in Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows right around the time too.
I love Noomi in Prometheus, she's incredible. Very unique just like Sigourney, but not a rip of her character at all.
Quote from: Protozoid on Jul 30, 2017, 03:44:16 AM
It's hard to imagine Prometheus without Rapace. Her performance was acclaimed and with good reason. She had an inner strength and physical ability far beyond what Portman has. Portman is a fine actress, but she is more vulnerable and less physical. On the other hand, if Portman had played the part, Covenant would never have existed. Instead, we would have had Prometheus 2, it would have come out years earlier, had a bigger budget, and would have been massively better than Covenant, imo. But I'm still glad Rapace played Shaw. She was the right choice for the role.
With Portman and DiCaprio, Prometheus would have been a bigger hit at the worldwide box office.
Don't get me wrong: I love Prometheus with Fassbender and Rapace. But Ridley Scott could/has the power to work with more famous actors and actresses.
His biggest hit ever at the box office was THE MARTIAN(3D) with a very famous Matt Damon.
I don't think people had issues with Prometheus over bad casting. Portman and DiCaprio wouldn't have helped.
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Jul 30, 2017, 09:42:59 PM
I don't think people had issues with Prometheus over bad casting. Portman and DiCaprio wouldn't have helped.
I didn't have issues with Prometheus at all.
But I'm glad Covenant didn't take the predicted route of Shaw meeting the Engineers.
My only issue with Shaw was her accent of no fixed origin.
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Jul 30, 2017, 09:42:59 PM
I don't think people had issues with Prometheus over bad casting. Portman and DiCaprio wouldn't have helped.
Sometimes the safe choice is the worst.
Quote from: SM on Jul 30, 2017, 11:02:58 PM
My only issue with Shaw was her accent of no fixed origin.
European accent.
What's a European accent? French? Dutch? Italian? Bulgarian? Norwegian?
I vaguely recall the rumours around Portman's role being around her playing a Colonial Marine general or something? I'll check out the archives when I get chance to have a gander. I'm curious now.
Personally, I quite liked Prometheus' cast. The characters were a different question, though.
She really did bother me first two, three times I saw the film, but the fourth time I saw it, it was right before Covenant in a special marathon...I actually kind of liked her more. But I'm not mourning her departure. I still think she will be reintroduced in the sequel one more time to explore that sick and twisted lover relationship with David.
I have an awful reason as to why she was cast as the lead but I'm keeping it to myself. However I don't see why not. She was fine in the movie.
Quote from: Salt The Fries on Jul 31, 2017, 04:54:08 PM
She really did bother me first two, three times I saw the film, but the fourth time I saw it, it was right before Covenant in a special marathon...I actually kind of liked her more. But I'm not mourning her departure. I still think she will be reintroduced in the sequel one more time to explore that sick and twisted lover relationship with David.
I hope you are right.
COVENANT 2 seems cancelled.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Aug 01, 2017, 11:23:19 AM
I have an awful reason as to why she was cast as the lead but I'm keeping it to myself. However I don't see why not. She was fine in the movie.
Tease.
Quote from: Gash on Aug 02, 2017, 12:28:36 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Aug 01, 2017, 11:23:19 AM
I have an awful reason as to why she was cast as the lead but I'm keeping it to myself. However I don't see why not. She was fine in the movie.
Tease.
What awful reason?.
Quote from: SM on Jul 30, 2017, 11:02:58 PM
My only issue with Shaw was her accent of no fixed origin.
I noticed that too. I think she was trying to sound/imitate Scottish or English accent but failed miserably.
There wasn't any Scottish in there, but it was just inconsistent.
Quote from: bleau on Aug 04, 2017, 07:42:49 AM
Quote from: SM on Jul 30, 2017, 11:02:58 PM
My only issue with Shaw was her accent of no fixed origin.
I noticed that too. I think she was trying to sound/imitate Scottish or English accent but failed miserably.
I agree: she tried to do English accent and failed.
Her Dad, in PROMETHEUS, was an English actor.
Patrick Wilson is a Yank, born and bred.
Her mum is Giannina Facio (Riddles Costa Rican missus).
Quote from: PierreVW on Aug 04, 2017, 11:38:54 PM
Quote from: bleau on Aug 04, 2017, 07:42:49 AM
Quote from: SM on Jul 30, 2017, 11:02:58 PM
My only issue with Shaw was her accent of no fixed origin.
I noticed that too. I think she was trying to sound/imitate Scottish or English accent but failed miserably.
I agree: she tried to do English accent and failed.
It's impossible for Noomi to fail at doing an English accent. She's not trying to be English. She is speaking English in a way that is common for a person with her background.
Noomi is Swedish (living in Sweden and Iceland). I've been to Sweden and several people there spoke English to me with an English accept.
My Swedish girlfriend at the time told me that this accent was common with English language speakers in Sweden.
* I realize that the personal taste of many viewers results in a dislike of different kinds of accents.
- But the way i approach film often has this basis; if something exists in our world, then it can be put in a movie.
;)
Quote
It's impossible for Noomi to fail at doing an English accent. She's not trying to be English.
Then what is she trying to be? Her character is English. As evidenced by the young Elizabeth in the dream.
I can understand her accent not being English as an adult, as it's implied she grew up moving around. The problem is the inconsistency of her accent in the film.
Quote from: SM on Aug 04, 2017, 11:46:23 PM
Patrick Wilson is a Yank, born and bred.
Her mum is Giannina Facio (Riddles Costa Rican missus).
It is his wife.
That's literally what he said, yes.
Quote from: PierreVW on Aug 06, 2017, 02:20:25 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 04, 2017, 11:46:23 PM
Patrick Wilson is a Yank, born and bred.
Her mum is Giannina Facio (Riddles Costa Rican missus).
It is his wife.
Thanks. Tell us again how Patrick Wilson is English...
Quote from: SM on Aug 05, 2017, 09:24:53 PM
Quote
It's impossible for Noomi to fail at doing an English accent. She's not trying to be English.
Then what is she trying to be? Her character is English. As evidenced by the young Elizabeth in the dream.
I can understand her accent not being English as an adult, as it's implied she grew up moving around. The problem is the inconsistency of her accent in the film.
* I'll try to be more clear. What I was trying to bring up was the idea of a mixture of English accents (which in this case of Shaw would include some words with an English accent).
- While her character has British ancestors, as a child she did not live in England.
I checked a couple of wiki articles and from that; she grew up in South Africa.
QuoteShaw was raised from childhood in South Africa by her father, a missionary after her mother died of unknown disease.
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Elizabeth_Shaw
Does the adult Shaw have what could be called a South African accent (see "District 9")? No.
- Shaw's English accent is a mixture and as I explained I personally have met people in Sweden who had learned English with an English accept (but I'll add that it was blended with a Swedish accent).
- But this leads to the overall idea of the change of English accents due to not only changes in the environment but also due to the vocal flexibility of the speaker.
And in my career and personal life I've known thousands of people who have moved to different parts of the world and whose English accents have developed or changed in different ways.
- What I've seen is that English accent flexibility varies. Some people like my mother for instance who has lived on the West coast of the US since her 20s, has mostly a West coast accent but still has a group of words which are in a New York accent.
My father by contrast, who left with my mother at the same time, had no New York accent once he moved to the West coast.
My wife is from a Puerto Rican background but she has lived with her family in Germany and the southern US. Everyone in her family speaks English with a different accent. But my wife speaks English with no Spanish/southern accent and sounds like someone from the US West coast.
* Now back to your issue;
"The problem is the inconsistency of her accent in the film."I certainly have no intention of changing your mind about this.
And this is not a problem imo and is one of those agree to disagree situations.
From my POV, I've heard inconsistent English accents with thousands of people that I've met who were born / have lived in different parts of the world and then came to the Western US.
And as mentioned, I included my experience with English accents in Sweden which directly relates to Noomi's background.
- So, Shaw has an inconsistent English accent. I reason, that's fine.
For people who have lived in different parts of the world, inconsistent or hybrid English accents are very common.
But again, I'm willing to agree to disagree.
;)
Quote from: bb-15 on Aug 06, 2017, 07:38:32 PM
* I'll try to be more clear. What I was trying to bring up was the idea of a mixture of English accents (which in this case of Shaw would include some words with an English accent).
- While her character has British ancestors, as a child she did not live in England.
I checked a couple of wiki articles and from that; she grew up in South Africa.
QuoteShaw was raised from childhood in South Africa by her father, a missionary after her mother died of unknown disease.
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Elizabeth_Shaw
Does the adult Shaw have what could be called a South African accent (see "District 9")? No.
- Shaw's English accent is a mixture and as I explained I personally have met people in Sweden who had learned English with an English accept (but I'll add that it was blended with a Swedish accent).
- But this leads to the overall idea of the change of English accents due to not only changes in the environment but also due to the vocal flexibility of the speaker.
And in my career and personal life I've known thousands of people who have moved to different parts of the world and whose English accents have developed or changed in different ways.
- What I've seen is that English accent flexibility varies. Some people like my mother for instance who has lived on the West coast of the US since her 20s, has mostly a West coast accent but still has a group of words which are in a New York accent.
My father by contrast, who left with my mother at the same time, had no New York accent once he moved to the West coast.
My wife is from a Puerto Rican background but she has lived with her family in Germany and the southern US. Everyone in her family speaks English with a different accent. But my wife speaks English with no Spanish/southern accent and sounds like someone from the US West coast.
* Now back to your issue;
"The problem is the inconsistency of her accent in the film."
I certainly have no intention of changing your mind about this.
And this is not a problem imo and is one of those agree to disagree situations.
From my POV, I've heard inconsistent English accents with thousands of people that I've met who were born / have lived in different parts of the world and then came to the Western US.
And as mentioned, I included my experience with English accents in Sweden which directly relates to Noomi's background.
- So, Shaw has an inconsistent English accent. I reason, that's fine.
For people who have lived in different parts of the world, inconsistent or hybrid English accents are very common.
But again, I'm willing to agree to disagree.
;)
Very interesting. Would you be willing to expand on that for us a bit more?
That's all very well, however she has an English accent as a child meaning she's either raised in England or educated in an English school. We all know perfectly well that accents change based on environment. Shaw's seem to be different over the course of the film. Maybe she picks up an LV-223 accent...
Quote from: SM on Aug 06, 2017, 10:25:54 PM
That's all very well, however she has an English accent as a child meaning she's either raised in England or educated in an English school. We all know perfectly well that accents change based on environment. Shaw's seem to be different over the course of the film. Maybe she picks up an LV-223 accent...
QuoteAnd this is not a problem imo and is one of those agree to disagree situations.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftheoubliette.imaginewrite.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F11%2Fbox.jpg&hash=2de6b26333be143e77e0a16cd9a1c4cc417775c2)
"I think that's your lot. Please leave a contribution in the little box." :P
(That's your answer SM...that's always the answer to everything. It's the 42 of these boards lol.)
;D
I blame the child actress for not being able to imitate Noomis way of speaking. Such unprofessionalism.
And Ridley Scott of course for not intervening vigorously here.
This bit about the accent, I didn't notice any of it.
Should I have?
Yes. Yes, you should.
Next, question, what should Shaw have sounded like? I thought she was... you know what, I don't have the foggiest clue what she is supposed to be in the movie.
She should've just kept her Swedish accent.
I watched it in French with subtitles. Issue solved.
Precisement.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Aug 08, 2017, 02:50:00 AM
Next, question, what should Shaw have sounded like? I thought she was... you know what, I don't have the foggiest clue what she is supposed to be in the movie.
Her character was written as English, but she could've been anything. It just would've been better if it was a consistent anything.
That sounds oddly American, no wonder I didn't notice it. :P
I didn't like Noomi much as the main character. 'I choose to believe bla bla'. I was glad David killed her in Covenant. Also, why not have a male lead again the next movie, eh Ridley?
That's a silly line of dialogue, but it's not really something you can blame Noomi Rapace on. She didn't write the script.
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Aug 27, 2017, 10:02:16 AM
That's a silly line of dialogue, but it's not really something you can blame Noomi Rapace on. She didn't write the script.
I know, but I didn't like her character anyway. So her not being in Covenant is a good thing for me.
I like noomi but i didnt like shaw as a character. Still i wish The Crossing was apart of the film.
I like her, as she is a very optimistic character which makes her death all the more sad.
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Aug 27, 2017, 10:02:16 AM
That's a silly line of dialogue, but it's not really something you can blame Noomi Rapace on. She didn't write the script.
This is true, she was given some pretty rum dialogue but at the same time I thought some of her delivery was pretty cringey.
'I choose to believe' was a good example but for me the worst was the 'I cant create' bit. It just makes me shudder every time I watch it.
I thought Noomi was most effective in the latter stages of the film. All of her lines regarding saving earth etc, particularly to Janek, are delivered really well.
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Sep 14, 2017, 09:04:48 AM
This is true, she was given some pretty rum dialogue but at the same time I thought some of her delivery was pretty cringey.
'I choose to believe' was a good example but for me the worst was the 'I cant create' bit. It just makes me shudder every time I watch it.
English is not her native language, dude. You can have actors that can deliver lines, but can't act for sh*t. Noomi is brilliant in the surgery scene, not many actresses of her generation could have pulled that off.
What does her native language have to do with anything?
On her ability to deliver lines in english.
How is that an excuse? If she couldn't act in English she shouldn't have been cast.
It's not an excuse, it's a reality. Like how a midget actor can not play someone who is 7 feet tall.
Language has many nuances that only a native speaker can properly master. Doesn't mean that she can't do english roles, though.
It's just that she won't be terribly convincing delivering dialogue, if she's playing an english woman, yet her native language is not english.
But that point did not bother me, however pointing that out is a flaw is not the fault of the actress.
I'm not convinced its down to her native language though. I thought she was very wooden in the more emotional scenes, which gave me the impression she isn't a particularly strong actress.
I've seen her in other films and felt the same way but admittedly they were also English speaking roles.
But if it was down to bad casting then ultimately its a flaw in the film for me personally because her performance bothers me.
Watch The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo (the Swedish version). She's amazing in that.
Quote from: Scorpio on Sep 14, 2017, 12:42:21 PM
Watch The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo (the Swedish version). She's amazing in that.
I've seen it and I thought she was very good in it. That's why I am so shocked at how bad she has been in everything I have seen since.
But maybe that character just worked for her, she may have connected with Lisbeth in a way she has struggled to emulate. A one hit wonder.
Again, that comes down to english not being her first language.
Then probably not the best plan to cast her as an English character.
Quote from: SM on Jul 30, 2017, 11:02:58 PM
My only issue with Shaw was her accent of no fixed origin.
What relevance is this to anything in the film? Also, didn't she grow up partly in Africa or something? Didn't her father die from ebola? Maybe she adopted part of her accent from a non-European country.
Quote from: SM on Sep 15, 2017, 02:22:14 AM
Then probably not the best plan to cast her as an English character.
It's called 'acting'.
If it's not convincing acting - there's a problem.
Quote from: Olde on Sep 15, 2017, 02:24:58 AM
Quote from: SM on Jul 30, 2017, 11:02:58 PM
My only issue with Shaw was her accent of no fixed origin.
What relevance is this to anything in the film? Also, didn't she grow up partly in Africa or something? Didn't her father die from ebola? Maybe she adopted part of her accent from a non-European country.
Try reading the rest of the thread.
A problem for you, maybe.
There's also the fact that accents change over time, so maybe in 2089 people from England sound like Elizabeth Shaw.
Fifield and Chance don't.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnerdbastards.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2Fridley-scott.jpg&hash=edb917913bfbeb1a1723545139e0768df35c9b6f)
Quote from: SM on Sep 15, 2017, 02:41:42 AM
Try reading the rest of the thread.
K.
Quote from: Olde on Sep 15, 2017, 02:24:58 AM
What relevance is this to anything in the film?
Try answering my question.
Have you read the rest of the thread?
Yes.
Then you have your answer.
I see. Thank you, all-knowing and almighty SM.
You're very welcome.
Quote from: SM on Sep 15, 2017, 03:00:53 AM
Fifield and Chance don't.
That's because England alone has many different accents.
So English accents don't sound like Shaw then.
All the accent stuff aside and her accent was a little weird to me, the problem was some of her lines landed with an almighty thud. That's down to acting for me. She does all the characters in peril stuff pretty well but when it comes to emoting it fell flat for me and didn't feel real.
Dozens of films feature actors doing accents that aren't native to them and they have delivered terrific performances.
Although, as I have said before, she was given some pretty clunky lines to deliver, as did many of the cast.