DH ‘Announces’ Aliens: Dust to Dust

Started by Ultramorph, Nov 29, 2017, 12:08:15 AM

Author
DH ‘Announces’ Aliens: Dust to Dust (Read 74,989 times)

SiL

Sure was.

The Kurgan

The Kurgan

#286
Quote from: SiL on Jan 21, 2019, 01:10:40 PM
QuoteBut still, i think effective chemical weapons are too much of an "I win" button.
"Nuking the site from orbit" isn't? ???

Not quite. If you nuke the whole thing, you lose as much, your colony is gone. If you gas the place, you clean up and all is good. Also you could pump gas in hives or space stations or wherever to support troops in hazmat suits, could use it to make alien breakouts in labs  practically impossible etc.

Chemical weapons have a much broader applicability than just blowing the place up.

Quote from: SiL on Jan 21, 2019, 01:10:40 PM
QuoteWasn't it the temperature that startled the Alien? I thought it was either hot steam or some coolant not something toxic. But i may misremember the details.

Quote from: SiL on Jan 21, 2019, 01:10:40 PM
It's a small detail, but you can actually read the chemical compound on the button she presses. When you look it up, you see it's commonly used as an insecticide. She's basically spraying all of the decontamination chemicals onto the Alien and seeing which one works.

I imagine it was a gag by the prop designers but hey, it's in the film.

Good eye, well than we have precedent that whatever it was exactly was at least pretty unpleasant for it.

SiL

Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 21, 2019, 01:22:46 PM
Not quite. If you nuke the whole thing, you lose as much, your colony is gone. If you gas the place, you clean up and all is good. Also you could pump gas in hives or space stations or wherever to support troops in hazmat suits, could use it to make alien breakouts in labs  practically impossible etc.

Chemical weapons have a much broader applicability than just blowing the place up.
But again, if you try to gas them, they just leave. They can't outrun a nuke.

The Cruentus

Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 20, 2019, 02:10:23 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 20, 2019, 11:03:50 AM
There's really no reason to assume they don't breathe, or that it's some kind of weakness. Evidence pretty clearly points to the fact they breathe. But also that they are super good at holding their breath.

It is a weakness. They can only operate for extended time in environments where they can breath, you could bring poison into their body over their respiratory system, you could suffocate them...

I think it severely limits their adaptability, even if they could breath nearly anything.

Kurgan, the aliens are not meant to be invincible supernatural monsters, they have weaknesses and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. They fear fire, they can be killed with any sharp objects as well blunt so long as there is enough force behind it,. They are still stronger and faster than humans and more dangerous than most animals on earth, if not all because their acid is great deterrant against piercing their bodies. A few weaknesses doesn't stop them from being one of the greatest threats about nor any less bad*ss.


The Kurgan

Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 21, 2019, 01:57:01 PM
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 20, 2019, 02:10:23 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 20, 2019, 11:03:50 AM
There's really no reason to assume they don't breathe, or that it's some kind of weakness. Evidence pretty clearly points to the fact they breathe. But also that they are super good at holding their breath.

It is a weakness. They can only operate for extended time in environments where they can breath, you could bring poison into their body over their respiratory system, you could suffocate them...

I think it severely limits their adaptability, even if they could breath nearly anything.

Kurgan, the aliens are not meant to be invincible supernatural monsters, they have weaknesses and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. They fear fire, they can be killed with any sharp objects as well blunt so long as there is enough force behind it,. They are still stronger and faster than humans and more dangerous than most animals on earth, if not all because their acid is great deterrant against piercing their bodies. A few weaknesses doesn't stop them from being one of the greatest threats about nor any less bad*ss.


Sure, nothing wrong with that.

But there are risks and a drawbacks to all of that. Sure you can blow up the colony or space station or the lab, but you lose the whole thing if you do that. Sure you can send troops to fight them off, but you lose lives and equipment in the progress.

If you could just pump some gas through a space station, colony, lab or hive, you kill them off with no drawbacks and risks at all. I don't think the aliens should be invulnerable, not at all. But having them be affected easily by chemical weapons neuters them way to much IMO.

The Cruentus

How so?  Gas and chemicals kill a lot of things, doesn't mean what they kill is not dangerous nor does it make them "neutered".
Human's advantage over Aliens is their intelligence and strategy, I see no issue in humans finding more effective ways to kill aliens without collateral damage. I agree there should always be a threat and the danger should never go away but colonial marine and pulse rifles is just going to get old and its not long term effectiveness.

The Kurgan

How not so?

As soon as you can easily kill something without collateral damage or drawbacks it becomes more of an inconvenience than a real threat.

The Cruentus

Only if you have aliens keep encountering that group. And even then there is ways around it, either the alien adapts and learns to avoid it or becomes resistent to it, or maybe have someone with a keen interest in the aliens sabotage those who would effectively destroy them.

Also you could just have average joes encounter the alien just like the first film. There would be no defence against the creature then.

The Old One

The Old One

#293
I've always thought the greatest
threat of the Alien is one that has
not been exploited to it's fullest
on film and that's how quickly they
change, even Ridley Scott had it in
mind for the first film. Describing
the Alien as a parasite jumping
from one creature to the next as
parasites do and changing in the
process. What if it's like the Borg
but the adaptive capability is
more of a gradual process?

SiL

Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 21, 2019, 03:04:17 PM
How not so?

As soon as you can easily kill something without collateral damage or drawbacks it becomes more of an inconvenience than a real threat.
But in the movies people are willing to blow up the colonies and ships anyway. The real damage is the loss of life, not property.

Xenomrph

Quote from: SiL on Jan 21, 2019, 01:10:40 PM
QuoteBut still, i think effective chemical weapons are too much of an "I win" button.
"Nuking the site from orbit" isn't? ???

QuoteWasn't it the temperature that startled the Alien? I thought it was either hot steam or some coolant not something toxic. But i may misremember the details.
It's a small detail, but you can actually read the chemical compound on the button she presses. When you look it up, you see it's commonly used as an insecticide. She's basically spraying all of the decontamination chemicals onto the Alien and seeing which one works.

I imagine it was a gag by the prop designers but hey, it's in the film.
Huh, you learn something new every day. :)

That said, it could still be the temperature or pressure of whatever she was spraying out and not necessarily the chemical itself that drove out the Alien.

SiL

It doesn't shoot out much harder than the others and you'd need to prove it's spraying hot pesticide (or cold?) for some reason -- but that's starting to feel more like sticking fingers in ears saying "Nya nya nya can't hear you they aren't bothered by toxic gases" than an actual argument :-\

The Old One

The Old One

#297
In the AVP Canon, AVP 2010 depicts
they can at least be knocked out by something.

Xenomrph

Quote from: SiL on Jan 22, 2019, 04:07:20 AM
It doesn't shoot out much harder than the others and you'd need to prove it's spraying hot pesticide (or cold?) for some reason -- but that's starting to feel more like sticking fingers in ears saying "Nya nya nya can't hear you they aren't bothered by toxic gases" than an actual argument :-\
Fair point I suppose, just trying to acknowledge other potential explanations. Correlation does not equal causation, after all.

SiL

SiL

#299
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 22, 2019, 10:36:58 AM
Fair point I suppose, just trying to acknowledge other potential explanations.
Those would only be potential explanations if there was any suggestion those factors were in play. There isn't. She hits it with several chemicals, nothing; bug spray, it freaks out. No sign it's painfully high pressure, no indication it's an extreme temperature.

QuoteCorrelation does not equal causation, after all.
That's a perfectly true statement, but it's not really relevant here. There's pretty clear cause and effect. It's like watching someone get splashed with water and saying "but maybe their shirt is wet because it was a hot day and they were sweaty" :P

EDIT

Actually, I was wrong. I can't find where it's used as a pesticide.

The chemical she sprays that gets the reaction is Nitrosyl Chloride. It's a nasty f**kin' chemical. It's also supposed to be yellow.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/nitrosyl_chloride#section=Hazards-Identification
QuoteGas is highly toxic. Inhalation causes severe irritation of respiratory tract and damage to mucous membranes. Delayed effects, which include severe pulmonary edema, may not be apparent for several hours. (USCG, 1999)
from CAMEO Chemicals
Corrosive, Reactive - 1st degree

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