QuoteThat's an approach Scott is using in the evolution of the wildly successful and largely acclaimed Alien franchise. To date, it has grossed over $1.3 billion at the worldwide box office. The most recent installment was 2017's Covenant, but Scott's confirmed another film is still in the works.
"That's in process. We went down a route to try and reinvent the wheel with Prometheus and Covenant," he enthused. "Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful because Prometheus woke it up very well. But you know, you're asking fundamental questions like, 'Has the Alien himself, the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?' That's always the fundamental question."
Forbes
https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonthompson/2020/09/02/ridley-scott-interview-raised-by-wolves-hbo-max-alien-franchise-future-sequel-news/#28cb3abe5831
Good news? Anyway...
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/79/40/f7/7940f72cb3c1cb274c191214c1e1dee4.gif)
Good news? Hard to tell:
Quote"That's in process."
Sounds good, but...
QuoteWe went down a route to try and reinvent the wheel with Prometheus and Covenant," he enthused. "Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful
So it's "doubtful". Bad news.
Quotebecause Prometheus woke it up very well.
Woke what up? What does that even mean?
QuoteBut you know, you're asking fundamental questions like, 'Has the Alien himself, the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam?
The beast is dead again...
QuoteDo you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?' That's always the fundamental question."
Okay, I am no more the wiser...
Ridley what does any of those words even mean? :D
I think Ridley is trying to tell us something :-X
"That's in process. We went down a route to try and reinvent the wheel with Prometheus and Covenant," he enthused. "Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful because Prometheus woke it up very well. But you know, you're asking fundamental questions like, 'Has the Alien himself, the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?' That's always the fundamental question."
Edit - Thanks for the link @Evanus
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Sep 02, 2020, 08:19:54 PM
I think Ridley is trying to tell us something :-X
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4175/33733046713_9694753578_o.gif)
Maybe the coded message can be decrypted in Raised by Wolves tomorrow...
... Yeah I'm confused lmao
"Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful because Prometheus woke it up very well"
"simply use the word to franchise?"
(https://i.giphy.com/media/iAYupOdWXQy5a4nVGk/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Sep 02, 2020, 08:23:46 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Sep 02, 2020, 08:19:54 PM
I think Ridley is trying to tell us something :-X
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4175/33733046713_9694753578_o.gif
:laugh:
(https://i.ibb.co/RBZx4NJ/tenor-1.gif)
At least the thought to fulfil a will to making the 3rd prequel by the director is reassuring
I almost feel like he's suggesting removing "Alien" from the title of the next film, and loosening some of the direct connective tissue while still very much setting it in that world a la Prometheus?
That makes sense. And if another prequel is still possible, I don't think Disney will let him do what he wants. But maybe after Covenant's box office, he has restored his thinking about expanding the universe around the Alien.
However this pans out, and whatever it is, exactly, that he means here, knowing that this thing is still alive in his mind at least is reassuring.
Yes. It's nice to hear it after so much bad news from movies and geek world in general. I hope Disney lets him finish his story. His ideas are quite interesting. The problem is that he seriously need a good screenwriter to make them justice. Plus, Disney empire...
Confusing.
Whatever, just get this shit done, you lovable lunatic.
Quote from: Ridley Scott
Has the Alien, himself; the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam?
Says the man who's apparently never watched the '
Alien Isolation' adverts.
I came to detest the glitch-ridden, AI-cheating gameplay, but there's no doubting the
presentation style of that game debunked Scott's frequently aired assumptions.
It's like vampires and sharks. Can they be scary? Absolutely, they f**king can. And it won't just be one or two classic films people will revisit which feature them, because there are countless ways in which to portray them with serious impact.
Just because the material in which Aliens, Predators and Terminators have appeared, has largely been sub-standard, doesn't mean they can't be elevated back to - or even surpass - their initial few appearances. They need something well-written with competent direction. Nobody can argue the '
Alien' films have lacked for good directors, but good scripts? Good
execution? That's something else.
And it's no good him declaring, in one breathe, that both '
Prometheus' and '
Covenant' were supposedly going to "scare the shit out of" us, featuring sequences we would allegedly find more disturbing than Lambert's demise, only to immediately reverse course and lament how doing so is somehow impossible.
I liked Prometheus. The deleted scenes should have not been deleted, and it had some flaws, but it was a good movie, and the cliffhanger was great.
I did not liked Covenant much. It starts great but the lack of continuity with Prometheus (this means, discarding everything from that movie at the point like it felt a whole movie happened before Covenant) and the recycled ending from Alien was not great, but like Prometheus it also had great stuff in it.
I dont trust disney at all, they buy brands just to ruin them, they did it with Star Wars, they did it with Marvel, and i am afraid they are gonna do with everything else.
But i do trust Ridley, and if disney let him tell his story, we could have a great movie, i know he still has the magic in him, and i really want to see the end of the trilogy.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 03, 2020, 10:37:29 AM
Quote from: Ridley Scott
Has the Alien, himself; the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam?
Says the man who's apparently never watched the 'Alien Isolation' adverts.
I came to detest the glitch-ridden, AI-cheating gameplay, but there's no doubting the presentation style of that game debunked Scott's frequently aired assumptions.
It's like vampires and sharks. Can they be scary? Absolutely, they f**king can. And it won't just be one or two classic films people will revisit which feature them, because there are countless ways in which to portray them with serious impact.
Just because the material in which Aliens, Predators and Terminators have appeared, has largely been sub-standard, doesn't mean they can't be elevated back to - or even surpass - their initial few appearances. They need something well-written with competent direction. Nobody can argue the 'Alien' films have lacked for good directors, but good scripts? Good execution? That's something else.
And it's no good him declaring, in one breathe, that both 'Prometheus' and 'Covenant' were supposedly going to "scare the shit out of" us, featuring sequences we would allegedly find more disturbing than Lambert's demise, only to immediately reverse course and lament how doing so is somehow impossible.
I hated the Alien in Alien Isolation, i had to cheat to finish the game which of course killed the game, the AI was completely broken and after hearing so much praise from everywhere for so long i was dissapointed.
The Alien is not omnipotent, it was ridiculous that he was over on me literally all the time and there was literally nothing i could do about it.
I remember once i was under a table around 15/20 minutes because the thing would just not leave the room.
I would go to the bathroom, eat something, talk to my family, come back and it was still going around. Awful.
But you are right, the game had several problems but the presentation was outstanding, i would love to see a return to that aesthetic etc, and EVERYTHING can be fixed with a good script, any franchise, any character, anything can be good if it is well written, and the best part is that it does not cost any money (i mean besides hiring the writer of course), is all just creativity and talent, they just have to put the effort on telling a good story with good characters and the rest will flow naturally i think.
Fingers crossed that we get this movie and that disney does not meddle with it, at least one last good Alien movie.
And i would be nice to see a good Predator and AVP movie too.
I don't think they can do a whole third prequel movie without an alien, I mean one of the points of these movies is to tell the story of how the fossil in a chair with an exploded chest got there in the first place right?
The man has been saying the same shit for 10 years. He clearly does not have the stomach for it. Hand it over to someone hungry and more talented who will do it some justice.
Let him do his third act and then go with Alien in some new post A:R direction. Ridley is great at directing films but to make great one, as Hitchcock said, to need three things the script, the script and the script. Ridley needs someone to make good script for him.
Kind of sounds like Disney just wants to use the word 'Alien' to release a grab-bag of movies about scary space monsters...
Seriously, an "Alien" film without the Alien...theres plenty of mileage left in this franchise.
Alien 3, needs binning, and completely remaking.
Alien 4 just needs binning.
Prometheus was ok, as it showed that the engineers and the black goo were responsible for some evolution of the alien (deacon).
Covenant was crap...David inventing the alien is a really crap idea.
The original ship showed a "fossilised" pilot, who had apparently been there for years to be preserved, and "grown out of its seat". Also showing that a chest bursted had emerged.
David and covenant can not be responsible for this.
If ridley takes it down this route he will kill the franchise full stop.
Corporal Hicks should still be alive, drop Sigourney weaver (sorry, but this film needs to evolve). There are plenty of actors who can make this happen.
Survivors, action, include some horror footage of the colony being overun, sneaky attacks , go for the shock by showing women and children being taken.
Move on to hicks story as a survivor, did the derelict ship survive the meltdown , has the company got any eggs.....you get the idea.....
ITS A HORROR FILM....not a wimpy story of meeting our makers...
If ridley can't live up to his original, give the project to someone who can.
Nothing needs "binning", just tell new stories with new interesting characters.
Oh wait, that's exactly what Scott was doing.. and now we're stuck here.
Bring back the Alien!!! I dont like this AI thing much.
A good Sci Fi alien creature film is the best!!!
Every time he talks about the franchise my heart sinks a little further. He clearly isn't interested in Alien or we'd have had a proper sequel already.
He's had two forgettable attempts at movies without it when we could have put those budgets to actual Alien sequels. That's enough.
You know what the franchise doesn't need? An 82 year old director who isn't interested in the Alien.
He might not be interested in the horror elements of the creature, but he is very interested in the world and the "Why?" behind the creature's existence and how it relates to the lineage of creators and creations that he is exploring.
I think to say that Ridley isn't interested in making Alien movies is disingenuous. To say that he isn't interested in the Alien itself is, too. He just has his own set of ideas for how he wants to explore the baked in concepts of the franchise and I, personally, as both a fan of the Alien films and a fan of Ridley Scott as a filmmaker and his ideas in general, want to see his narrative here concluded.
After that, bring in another filmmaker to do what they want with the Alien. Knowing Disney, you'll get something much more traditional and close to the first two films then. That's inevitable. In the meantime, let Ridley finish up what he's doing and have his fun with his corner of the material here.
Quote from: Morse on Sep 03, 2020, 12:45:06 PM
Every time he talks about the franchise my heart sinks a little further. He clearly isn't interested in Alien or we'd have had a proper sequel already.
He's had two forgettable attempts at movies without it when we could have put those budgets to actual Alien sequels. That's enough.
You know what the franchise doesn't need? An 82 year old director who isn't interested in the Alien.
I hear ya.
I'm relaxed anyway. I think the ship has sailed for a continuation of his story-path. I don't think it was necessarily slapping "Alien" in the title for Covenant that saw ticket sales and revenue plummet, there was a lot of mixed-to-negative feelings around Prometheus in 2012 (though critics favoured it considerably more than general audiences). I think if he gets part 3, no matter where he takes it, it will be diminishing returns. Especially in a post-Covid world whenever that may be.
David and AI is decent but that was the sole focus of both films. Is anyone really desperate for Michael Fassbender part III?
Personally, I'd like to see Alien evolve to TV. Series are so interesting these days and at your fingertips instantly. This or a movie where the antagonist is HR Giger's Alien design and it moves around all contorted and behaves like a...well, you know, Alien.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 03, 2020, 12:53:48 PM
In the meantime, let Ridley finish up what he's doing and have his fun with his corner of the material here.
I think finishing Ridley finishing up his prequels theatrically is indeed "doubtful", based on box office reception of Covenant and the downwards trajectory line it created. Perhaps 20th will allow him to finish it on streaming though in a small series if Fassbender was willing. That would be cool! That is if Ridley is still even interested in going there. Or perhaps he thinks David is cooked too. ;)
Anyone watching Raised by Wolves right now will see that giving the man his final chapter is the right thing to do.
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Sep 03, 2020, 01:17:10 PM
Anyone watching Raised by Wolves right now will see that giving the man his final chapter is the right thing to do.
Starting within the hour!
Quote from: seattle24 on Sep 03, 2020, 01:02:35 PM
David and AI is decent but that was the sole focus of both films. Is anyone really desperate for Michael Fassbender part III?
Yes.
I loved prometheus but I hate coveant plus the aliens are the mainpoint of the aliens franchise not robot people playing god get that shit out of here the only moives were AI were the main villains that scared me was terminator 1 and 2 along with a moive called lifeform
Great news! I am beyond excited to see Ridley complete his trilogy. David, the Engineers, and exploring the origins of the Aliens has been the best/most engaging thing to happen to the franchise in over 20 years. :)
When is Ripley due to appear in an alien movie?, and what happened to cal and Ripley once the Auriga landed on earth?, what about that?
But prometheus is better than coveant though prometheus has its problems but coveant is just riddled with problems and plot holes like why the landing crew didn't wear protective gear how David was able to create the protomorph along with other stuff and Alien coveant actually lost money
A poor film does not mean the xeno is dead. What we all want is a damn good film with our favourite nightmares, a good film Ridley. His view is far to limited, you've been a great director but please leave Alien alone. Let some fresh blood steer the wheel.
Spot on. Any scrap of news is exciting, let's hope it happens. I enjoy Prometheus save for a couple of scenes. Covenant was trash in my opinion. I think the future of the franchise lies with the Space Jockey and the Big Chap as it always has. Don't know if we can expect to see anything anytime soon with the state of the world but here's hoping.
Everyone wants a movie about the engineers. Literally. Far more interesting.
Not really.
The budget already far exceeds that of a slasher horror film. Don't know where Ridley wants to take the franchise, but you know its going to be edgy with not quiet enough edge.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 03, 2020, 12:53:48 PM
He might not be interested in the horror elements of the creature, but he is very interested in the world and the "Why?" behind the creature's existence and how it relates to the lineage of creators and creations that he is exploring.
I think to say that Ridley isn't interested in making Alien movies is disingenuous. To say that he isn't interested in the Alien itself is, too. He just has his own set of ideas for how he wants to explore the baked in concepts of the franchise and I, personally, as both a fan of the Alien films and a fan of Ridley Scott as a filmmaker and his ideas in general, want to see his narrative here concluded.
After that, bring in another filmmaker to do what they want with the Alien. Knowing Disney, you'll get something much more traditional and close to the first two films then. That's inevitable. In the meantime, let Ridley finish up what he's doing and have his fun with his corner of the material here.
Personally I feel Ridley has a massively skewed idea of how interesting the creation of the alien species is to people. Outside of fan's of the franchise keen enough to sign up for a forum ie us lol, probably very few are intersted. Most probably went to see the prequels because they thought they were seeing a Alien movie.
We could have had Ridley making a proper Alien sequel instead we have this indulgence. It's all a missed opportunity to me. If Ridley wanted to make a movie which didn't feature the alien he could have made Beverly Hills Cop 4, or anything he liked.
If it has to be a personal indulgence on what Ridley wants then sure make the third pre-quel so this tedium can be finished for good and we can get on to what people really want to see, a full blown Alien sequel baby.
Quote from: marrerom on Sep 03, 2020, 01:50:47 PM
Great news! I am beyond excited to see Ridley complete his trilogy. David, the Engineers, and exploring the origins of the Aliens has been the best/most engaging thing to happen to the franchise in over 20 years. :)
I agree, for it's worth.
For all the problems of the prequel movies, and the problems were many, the films are still
interesting, and they are interesting because Scott decided to explore how things started. It was probably the only way to go. Anything else would have been 'monster in the dark attacks someone!' which has been done, like, a million times.
Quote from: Morse on Sep 03, 2020, 06:49:22 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 03, 2020, 12:53:48 PM
He might not be interested in the horror elements of the creature, but he is very interested in the world and the "Why?" behind the creature's existence and how it relates to the lineage of creators and creations that he is exploring.
I think to say that Ridley isn't interested in making Alien movies is disingenuous. To say that he isn't interested in the Alien itself is, too. He just has his own set of ideas for how he wants to explore the baked in concepts of the franchise and I, personally, as both a fan of the Alien films and a fan of Ridley Scott as a filmmaker and his ideas in general, want to see his narrative here concluded.
After that, bring in another filmmaker to do what they want with the Alien. Knowing Disney, you'll get something much more traditional and close to the first two films then. That's inevitable. In the meantime, let Ridley finish up what he's doing and have his fun with his corner of the material here.
Personally I feel Ridley has a massively skewed idea of how interesting the creation of the alien species is to people. Outside of fan's of the franchise keen enough to sign up for a forum ie us lol, probably very few are intersted. Most probably went to see the prequels because they thought they were seeing a Alien movie.
We could have had Ridley making a proper Alien sequel instead we have this indulgence. It's all a missed opportunity to me. If Ridley wanted to make a movie which didn't feature the alien he could have made Beverly Hills Cop 4, or anything he liked.
If it has to be a personal indulgence on what Ridley wants then sure make the third pre-quel so this tedium can be finished for good and we can get on to what people really want to see, a full blown Alien sequel baby.
But everyone's already seen an Alien sequel. It was in 1986, and it was pretty good.
Ridley needs to be kept FAR AWAY from any future film projects involving this universe. It's a shame, but it feels so blatant that he has ZERO idea of what he's doing.
Quote from: Rabbit2100 on Sep 03, 2020, 06:59:27 PM
Ridley needs to be kept FAR AWAY from any future film projects involving this universe. It's a shame, but it feels so blatant that he has ZERO idea of what he's doing.
Oh, he knows what he's doing.
Spoiler
Whatever the f**k he wants.
(https://conversationsabouther.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/ridleyscott.jpg)
Prometheus and covenant should not have existed in the alien universe at all because it was Ridley's attempt to ask a different question than the ones the fans even wanted answers for. Making the Space Jockey some man in a chair and space suit was insulting, especially considering the size of the creature in the chair was way larger than the "engineers". Saying that humans were seeded by humanoid aliens from space is also stupid within the universe the original movie suggested. And the concept of the black goo is a totally over used trite scifi trope taken from the X-files, the Matrix, and a couple others i cant remember. Disappointed.
Quote from: Evanus on Sep 03, 2020, 07:07:08 PM
Quote from: Rabbit2100 on Sep 03, 2020, 06:59:27 PM
Ridley needs to be kept FAR AWAY from any future film projects involving this universe. It's a shame, but it feels so blatant that he has ZERO idea of what he's doing.
Oh, he knows what he's doing.
Spoiler
Whatever the f**k he wants.
(https://conversationsabouther.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/ridleyscott.jpg)
Indeed ;D
Is there any better way to know what you are doing than Ridley's way? which is to follow your own artistic vision without giving a f**k on studio and fans. Well you also have the Cameron way, the Nolan way, the Rian Johnson way, etc. But Riddles's is the coolest one.
Edit - Of course he couldn't have done that in 1979 or before :laugh:
Quote from: Jutland on Sep 03, 2020, 06:51:31 PM
But everyone's already seen an Alien sequel. It was in 1986, and it was pretty good.
But everyone's already seen a Prometheus sequel. It was in 2017 and it was below average.
Oh boy another mediocre addition to the franchise that further kills the lore and will make sure the franchise stays dead for another 3 years! Can't wait for the people defending it as if it was a masterpiece with no flaws, like the 2 other times.
Urrgghh no. f**k off Ridley. He's saying the same shit he's been saying every time about the last one not being as good and if the alien is worn out blah blah. The already-setup story is bad and silly, nothing was going to save it so i'm glad its probably being abandoned.
Just make a new sci-fi franchise not related to Alien, Ridley. Stop ruining Alien by shoehorning in crap that ruins lore and doesn't belong.
Hopefully move onto something with a better direction for the series. Not a prequel or spinoff.
So long as it doesn't end with David being the originator of the Lv-426 eggs, I will remain content.
There's still enough wiggle room to avoid that storytelling travesty from coming true.
Stay away from the Beast, Ridley. But please finish the prequel trilogy.
Imagine a director saying the Predator might have run out of steam and wanting to explore pirates in the next film instead.
Riddles became a malicious troll to me.
Just get it over with. All of this is a waste of time since 2012 and I want to see an Alien movie at last.
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Sep 03, 2020, 09:15:51 PM
Oh boy another mediocre addition to the franchise that further kills the lore and will make sure the franchise stays dead for another 3 years! Can't wait for the people defending it as if it was a masterpiece with no flaws, like the 2 other times.
I'd rather have something I find interesting that "kills the lore" than something that perfectly checks off boxes that fits into "canon" but has absolutely nothing to say. Every different director that's touched the series has had a pretty unique vision for what their film(s) should be, and I find that to be much more engaging as a viewer than I do some rigid timeline where everything falls into place.
I'd never call
Prometheus or
Alien: Covenant masterpieces, but I would say that
Covenant is pretty damn great, and that
Prometheus is very interesting conceptually despite being a beautiful mess of a movie. And now I want to see Ridley Scott get a chance to send this vision off, before we move onto whatever the next "vision" another filmmaker brings to the series might be.
It your opinion but I think coveant is mediocre at best like instead of the advance alien race creating the xenomorph it was a pyshctioc synethic in a cave that created the xenomorph and let's not even talk about the plot holes or that the engineers are way to small to actually be the juggernaut pilot and coveant itself just raised more questions and it didn't answer none of Prometheus questions
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 03, 2020, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Sep 03, 2020, 09:15:51 PM
Oh boy another mediocre addition to the franchise that further kills the lore and will make sure the franchise stays dead for another 3 years! Can't wait for the people defending it as if it was a masterpiece with no flaws, like the 2 other times.
I'd rather have something I find interesting that "kills the lore" than something that perfectly checks off boxes that fits into "canon" but has absolutely nothing to say.
Having a pretentious "message" doesn't make a movie good or enjoyable, Ridley's vision for the prequels never had anything to do with this franchise and should have stayed out of it.
Yeah I find it hard that a psychotic synthetic was able to make something that look like the xenomorph in a cave I am just hoping that this last film shows that the protomorph is David's take on the xenomorph and the orginal alien is the engineers creation also I am hoping that the engineers are just the servants of the pilots or malkaks whatever you want to call them
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Sep 03, 2020, 10:57:37 PM
Having a pretentious "message" doesn't make a movie good or enjoyable
I mean, I really enjoy
Alien: Covenant. Not because of whatever "pretentious message" you're referring to, but because I found the ideas that the film was putting forth to be very fascinating, both on their own to feet and within the larger context of the Alien series.
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Sep 03, 2020, 10:57:37 PM
Ridley's vision for the prequels never had anything to do with this franchise and should have stayed out of it.
Not true.
Prometheus began life as a direct Alien prequel and, while it started to distance itself from that structure during pre-production, it never pushed itself out of that franchise. It re-interpreted many of the core ideas and twisted many of the concepts that we thought meant one thing on their head (which, I totally understand pissing people off) but at its core, it still was very much ingrained with the DNA of the Alien movie and the Space Jockey mystery and played on those familiar ideas while presenting them with material totally new to the series.
Androids (which have been prominent since the first film and have been a staple since), the nature of creation and lineage (which initially manifested with the parallels between Ripley and the Queen's presentations of motherhood in
Aliens and was further expanded upon more directly in
Alien: Resurrection with humans finally getting to meddle in affairs that they simply cannot control), and the religious subtext (which drove
Alien 3) all have roots in the original four films and expanding on them in the prequels feels like material ripe for the picking to me.
I'm not saying you, or anybody for that matter, has to like them. I myself have a ton of problems with
Prometheus, from a filmmaking perspective, despite my pretty unabashed love of
Alien: Covenant (which I do also have problems with, but hey, nothing is perfect). But I don't think it is fair to say that Ridley's "take" on the material wasn't appropriate for the series or should have stayed out of it. At the end of the day, its just a couple of movies that whoever comes in next to take over the reigns are probably going to gloss over anyways - every filmmaker that's come into the series has basically always glossed over whatever the previous films have done in order to put their own stamp on it and, essentially, start from scratch.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 03, 2020, 11:11:13 PM
It re-interpreted many of the core ideas and twisted many of the concepts that we thought meant one thing on their head (which, I totally understand pissing people off) but at its core, it still was very much ingrained with the DNA of the Alien movie and the Space Jockey mystery and played on those familiar ideas while presenting them with material totally new to the series.
The
Trilobite, the
Deacon, the
Space Jockeys reimagined. All of these elements are a metaphor for the original concept. For a short time I felt that
Prometheus was a reboot rather than a prequel.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 03, 2020, 11:11:13 PM
Androids (which have been prominent since the first film and have been a staple since), the nature of creation and lineage (which initially manifested with the parallels between Ripley and the Queen's presentations of motherhood in Aliens and was further expanded upon more directly in Alien: Resurrection with humans finally getting to meddle in affairs that they simply cannot control), and the religious subtext (which drove Alien 3) all have roots in the original four films and expanding on them in the prequels feels like material ripe for the picking to me.
That's so true! And also even the mythological poetry as a subtext, for example the
Queen as an allegory to
Grendel's mother. That said, and thanks to
Raised by Wolves, I'm more interested in artificial intelligence than ever! 8)
I strongly believe that
Ridley could do something even cooler than what he did with
Covenant following that narrative.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 03, 2020, 11:11:13 PM
At the end of the day, its just a couple of movies that whoever comes in next to take over the reigns are probably going to gloss over anyways - every filmmaker that's come into the series has basically always glossed over whatever the previous films have done in order to put their own stamp on it and, essentially, start from scratch.
That is also 100% true. It has happened before, and it will happen again.
It's been 8 years.
By all means, finish the Prometheus arc.
The let's get some serious alien movies.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Sep 04, 2020, 12:59:28 AM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 03, 2020, 11:11:13 PM
At the end of the day, its just a couple of movies that whoever comes in next to take over the reigns are probably going to gloss over anyways - every filmmaker that's come into the series has basically always glossed over whatever the previous films have done in order to put their own stamp on it and, essentially, start from scratch.
That is also 100% true. It has happened before, and it will happen again.
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/383ff30ea5f28c7ee50644dff5419109/tumblr_msg83132KO1qbjr46o1_250.gif)
Ok, signs of life. Jumping into this thread, confused as hell though I may be after reading the blurb.
I seriously want some of that Ridley Scott Scotch...
Hi. Ok guys. ... What did we learn at the end of Prometheus ? Trilobite ; deacon , engineer
No need of David The little xeno shark was born without David.
The enginners died before David arrived No need of David
Scott admits he was wrong about prometheus ? No , He was wrong about covenant.
Please erase covenant , remake it A new story starting in the derelict ....with the xenoshark in it
The little guy moving and killing differently And david using it to make THE perfect organism
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Sep 03, 2020, 10:57:37 PM
Ridley's vision for the prequels never had anything to do with this franchise and should have stayed out of it.
Amen. it's clear that he never wanted to make Alien prequels in the first place, and right from jump the prequels should have been their own unique and original sci-fi story.
To be fair he wasn't going to. Carl Rinsch was going to helm the project, but Fox said Scott or nobody.
Quote from: PVC on Sep 04, 2020, 08:36:03 AM
with the xenoshark in it
The little guy moving and killing differently And david using it to make THE perfect organism
Swap out "xenoshark" for the Neomorph and that's just
Covenant.
Sounds like the third script that was already written at the time of Covenant's release may bave been tossed out.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 03, 2020, 11:11:13 PM
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Sep 03, 2020, 10:57:37 PM
Having a pretentious "message" doesn't make a movie good or enjoyable
I mean, I really enjoy Alien: Covenant. Not because of whatever "pretentious message" you're referring to, but because I found the ideas that the film was putting forth to be very fascinating, both on their own to feet and within the larger context of the Alien series.
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Sep 03, 2020, 10:57:37 PM
Ridley's vision for the prequels never had anything to do with this franchise and should have stayed out of it.
Not true. Prometheus began life as a direct Alien prequel and, while it started to distance itself from that structure during pre-production, it never pushed itself out of that franchise. It re-interpreted many of the core ideas and twisted many of the concepts that we thought meant one thing on their head (which, I totally understand pissing people off) but at its core, it still was very much ingrained with the DNA of the Alien movie and the Space Jockey mystery and played on those familiar ideas while presenting them with material totally new to the series.
Androids (which have been prominent since the first film and have been a staple since), the nature of creation and lineage (which initially manifested with the parallels between Ripley and the Queen's presentations of motherhood in Aliens and was further expanded upon more directly in Alien: Resurrection with humans finally getting to meddle in affairs that they simply cannot control), and the religious subtext (which drove Alien 3) all have roots in the original four films and expanding on them in the prequels feels like material ripe for the picking to me.
I'm not saying you, or anybody for that matter, has to like them. I myself have a ton of problems with Prometheus, from a filmmaking perspective, despite my pretty unabashed love of Alien: Covenant (which I do also have problems with, but hey, nothing is perfect). But I don't think it is fair to say that Ridley's "take" on the material wasn't appropriate for the series or should have stayed out of it. At the end of the day, its just a couple of movies that whoever comes in next to take over the reigns are probably going to gloss over anyways - every filmmaker that's come into the series has basically always glossed over whatever the previous films have done in order to put their own stamp on it and, essentially, start from scratch.
Amen.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Sep 04, 2020, 11:57:19 AM
Sounds like the third script that was already written at the time of Covenant's release may bave been tossed out.
I'm sure that script was tossed out the moment Disney bought Fox, if not before that.
*reads quote*
Yeah it's still not happening.
I like the engineers, they are slightly more terrifying than the xenomorph. I liked prometheus, covenant less but fassbender still made it great. Covenant was a cliffhanger, the engineers definitely need to stop david and his floating ship/lab of horrors.
Sounds like he's forgotten what product he's supposed to be selling. The "alien in name only" thing he's had going on is what's run out of steam.
Quote from: Huggs on Sep 04, 2020, 04:01:40 PM
Sounds like he's forgotten what product he's supposed to be selling. The "alien in name only" thing he's had going on is what's run out of steam.
I dig this kind of approach. In fact, I might be the only hairless ape on Earth, who's looking forward to Carpenter's prequel about Jed (https://m.imdb.com/name/nm1058600/) :laugh:
(https://i.ibb.co/S5qsxjN/MV5-BNDA3-NDM2-Njc3-MV5-BMl5-Ban-Bn-Xk-Ft-ZTcw-Nzc4-Njgw-Mw-V1-SY1000-CR0-0-1213-1000-AL.jpg)
Please no. Scott's prequel trilogy is beyond salvageable. After Prometheus there was still some hope. Making a third one would be a waste of money, time and talent. They were a mistake, true franchise killers ruining it for generations.
I wish Scott had made something in the sci-fi genre completely unrelated to Alien, it's clear he had lost the passion for it and he obviosly hated shoehorning the creature in. Why bring him back?
That said I would happily look forward to his other sci fi projects, provided he gets a half decent script. And if sucks, well then it won't damage the classic movies. He is not getting any younger, let's not burden him with something he doesn't care about.
I believe it's still possible to make a good film with Alien, if you set strict rules in style and tone. Not sure how to undone the damage, the next movies should not hint even once that the prequels are in the same universe.
Quote from: Huggs on Sep 04, 2020, 04:01:40 PM
Sounds like he's forgotten what product he's supposed to be selling. The "alien in name only" thing he's had going on is what's run out of steam.
So "no" to Alien films tackling the complexities of human and machine synergy next? I heard Ridley is interested in that topic... :)
Quote from: reecebomb on Sep 04, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
I wish Scott had made something in the sci-fi genre completely unrelated to Alien
Just debuted yesterday, and well worth a watch so far!
Quote from: reecebomb on Sep 04, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
it's clear he had lost the passion for it and he obviosly hated shoehorning the creature in. Why bring him back?
I wouldn't say he lost passion for the series at all. He seems to be absolutely loving the world and the storytelling possibilities that it offers, its just that he isn't so much interested in using "The Beast" as an element of horror and the sole driving force anymore. He's more interested in it as a lens through which to explore creation and lineage between alien races, humans, machines, etc.
Quote from: reecebomb on Sep 04, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
if you set strict rules in style and tone.
This doesn't really appeal to me, honestly. The main, interesting driving force that keeps the series going, if you ask me, is that each filmmaker that has come in has brought something totally new to the table in terms of style and tone. Ridley Scott did something with
Alien, James Cameron changed that up for
Aliens, David Fincher did something very different with
Alien 3, Jean-Pierre Jeunet put his own stamp on
Alien: Resurrection, and then Ridley Scott brought something new to the table again with his two prequel films. Once Ridley's prequel vision is (hopefully) seen through to its completion, I hope that whatever filmmaker steps in next does something else very new with the franchise, both narratively and stylistically.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 03, 2020, 11:11:13 PM
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Sep 03, 2020, 10:57:37 PM
Having a pretentious "message" doesn't make a movie good or enjoyable
I mean, I really enjoy Alien: Covenant. Not because of whatever "pretentious message" you're referring to, but because I found the ideas that the film was putting forth to be very fascinating, both on their own to feet and within the larger context of the Alien series.
What? My message was obviously pointed at you not wanting an alien movie but wanting a movie that "has something to say"
QuoteNot true. Prometheus began life as a direct Alien prequel and, while it started to distance itself from that structure during pre-production, it never pushed itself out of that franchise.
Ah yes, remember when the fossilized pilot was implied to be a tall human-like alien that created us? Remember when the franchise was about creating things? Well it never was. Prometheus stopped being an alien movie, Ridley himself says it's just in the same universe, barely counts as a prequel too, now he admits he is just making Alien movies in name only.
QuoteAndroids (which have been prominent since the first film and have been a staple since), the nature of creation and lineage (which initially manifested with the parallels between Ripley and the Queen's presentations of motherhood in Aliens and was further expanded upon more directly in Alien: Resurrection with humans finally getting to meddle in affairs that they simply cannot control)
Amazing reaching here, nature of creation wasn't present in the movies, never was, playing god was never part of this franchise till Resurrection and even then that's debatable, this isn't Jurassic Park, playing God was never something present in the 3 first movies.
Quoteand the religious subtext (which drove Alien 3) all have roots in the original four films and expanding on them in the prequels feels like material ripe for the picking to me.
Ah yes, the subtle religious people in the movie, so subtle, it's not like it was on our face for most of the movie via dialogue and even a prayer montage during a funeral, right? The religion in Alien 3 wasn't a theme, it was a trait from the prisoners who had mostly lost hope, Religion WAS to be a major theme of the movie in it's earlier scripts, but it was scrapped.
QuoteBut I don't think it is fair to say that Ridley's "take" on the material wasn't appropriate for the series or should have stayed out of it.
Ridley's take on the franchise is that he is bored with the main Theme(the Alien itself) and wants to make movies about a robot playing God while using the Alien name, that's literally it, he says so himself
Quoteevery filmmaker that's come into the series has basically always glossed over whatever the previous films have done in order to put their own stamp on it and, essentially, start from scratch.
Extremely untrue, Alien and Aliens(and Alien 3 to some extent) don't "gloss over" the other movies, it was not until Resurrection that the movies of this brand started ignoring the others to be their own bellow average thing.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 04, 2020, 04:54:54 PM
Just debuted yesterday, and well worth a watch so far!
Yeah, will give it a chance for sure!
Quote
I wouldn't say he lost passion for the series at all. He seems to be absolutely loving the world and the storytelling possibilities that it offers, its just that he isn't so much interested in using "The Beast" as an element of horror and the sole driving force anymore. He's more interested in it as a lens through which to explore creation and lineage between alien races, humans, machines, etc.
And why does it have to be set in Alien universe, shoehorning the beast in it completely ruined it. Concepts in Prometheus were half baked but fairly interesting, I personally hoped the story would go even further from Alien.
Quote
This doesn't really appeal to me, honestly. The main, interesting driving force that keeps the series going, if you ask me, is that each filmmaker that has come in has brought something totally new to the table in terms of style and tone. Ridley Scott did something with Alien, James Cameron changed that up for Aliens, David Fincher did something very different with Alien 3, Jean-Pierre Jeunet put his own stamp on Alien: Resurrection, and then Ridley Scott brought something new to the table again with his two prequel films. Once Ridley's prequel vision is (hopefully) seen through to its completion, I hope that whatever filmmaker steps in next does something else very new with the franchise, both narratively and stylistically.
I should have been more specific. Agree 100% that one of the main strengths of the originals is that each brought something new to the table and are unique in their own right. The trilogy followed the rules successfully and this is why the gel. Prequels do not. Have to go now, will explain later.
Still collating...
Quote from: reecebomb on Sep 04, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
That said I would happily look forward to his other sci fi projects, provided he gets a half decent script.
Will he EVER get around to making The Forever War? ???
Scott is the George Lucas of Alien, incomprehensible, insane, drunk, a little pudgy.
But we all miss him.
It seems like Raised By Wolves might be the creative output that Ridley was looking for when he directed Prometheus and Covenant. Was hoping that would get it out of his system, but apparently not.
The whole beast is cooked angle is starting to get annoying, now. Maybe try believing in your subject matter?
Scott seems firmly stuck in Blade Runner mode.
Quote from: son_of_kane on Sep 04, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: reecebomb on Sep 04, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
That said I would happily look forward to his other sci fi projects, provided he gets a half decent script.
Will he EVER get around to making The Forever War? ???
Does Scott Free even hold the rights to that anymore? I can't remember the last time it was ever even mentioned in the media.
The Alien hasn't run out of steam, Ridley has.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 04, 2020, 11:34:47 PM
Quote from: son_of_kane on Sep 04, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: reecebomb on Sep 04, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
That said I would happily look forward to his other sci fi projects, provided he gets a half decent script.
Will he EVER get around to making The Forever War? ???
Does Scott Free even hold the rights to that anymore? I can't remember the last time it was ever even mentioned in the media.
Yeah it looks like Warner Bros now has it. We may never see Ridley's version :-[
Why on Earth would you work on a project that's part of a series that goes beyond film if you think the main focal point of said series has "run out of steam"? He needs to leave if the passion is gone.
no emtional no emootional
.................................INVOLBEMENT !!!!!!!!!!!
lol
Que Sera Sera what must be must be the futur's not ours to see.
lol
lets hope for the best
>:( >:( >:( JUSTGETTHISf**kINGTHINGDONERIDLEYORDISNEYORWHOEVERGODDAMMIT! >:( >:( >:(
Quote from: Rekoj on Sep 05, 2020, 02:59:52 AM
Why on Earth would you work on a project that's part of a series that goes beyond film if you think the main focal point of said series has "run out of steam"? He needs to leave if the passion is gone.
Because there are other focal points in that franchise/world that he also finds appealing, and that the "main focal point" (that being, the Alien) can be used as the most important piece to provide greater context to this new narrative – the Alien, in its perfect, form-fitting way that it deliberately defiles the human body, becomes a perfect extension of David's hatred of his human creators and his twisted view on sexual reproduction. Thematically that is still all very Alien, playing on the type of horror that has been present since the beginning, while framing it in a totally new light and using the Alien itself as the lens through which David's arc is explored. This shifts the focus to a perspective that is new for the franchise while still intrinsically linking that new perspective to the Alien. Without the Alien, David's story isn't anything. And Ridley's passion is there, in exploring that link and the lineages that he has presented; the only thing he's lost his passion for is using the Alien as the sole form of horror and simply recreating what he already did so perfectly in the original film.
And that's ok. The series is ripe for experimentation, and I'm sure whoever makes an Alien movie after Ridley Scott is going to dial things back a lot and do a movie that is much closer to what we got in
Alien and
Aliens to "win back" the fanbase. I accept that as inevitability, and I hope that whatever that eventual project is, it is good. I just remain hopeful that Ridley gets to finish his story before that happens.
While I enjoy the prequels and would like to see them completed, Ridley's often stated comments on the creature are frustrating and disappointing regardless of how you try and interpret his vague ramblings.
To say the creature is cooked, done, and lost it's steam is garbage. Obviously he thinks its become uninteresting and it comes across in the way he handles the creature in Covenant. I don't mind him wanting to explore the universe in his way but stop sh*tting on the Alien everytime you're asked about it.
Watch Ridley coax Aaron Guzikowski (showrunner of Raised by Wolves) into writing the next draft of this for him. :D
Quote from: 426Buddy on Sep 05, 2020, 04:21:49 PM
While I enjoy the prequels and would like to see them completed, Ridley's often stated comments on the creature are frustrating and disappointing regardless of how you try and interpret his vague ramblings.
To say the creature is cooked, done, and lost it's steam is garbage. Obviously he thinks its become uninteresting and it comes across in the way he handles the creature in Covenant. I don't mind him wanting to explore the universe in his way but stop sh*tting on the Alien everytime you're asked about it.
This, 100%. It's almost like he forgets the most revered film in his filmography is
Alien. Title of the movie, star of the show.
Quote from: Rankles75 on Sep 05, 2020, 12:51:03 AM
The Alien hasn't run out of steam, Ridley has.
*drops mic*
Hard to disagree.
I wish Blumhouse would buy the Alien IP off Disney. They seem to constantly pump out elite horror movies on narrow budgets with fantastic ensemble casts.
I think Ridley's got a point, to a certain extent. You can make the alien scary, but you need to find new interesting things. If it's just a retread of the originals, even if it's scary, what's the point? I'm afraid that's the route Disney will take; safe and unimaginative films that try to recapture the magic of the originals.
Reading Nightmare Asylum's posts, it basically summarizes why I think the prequels are doing the right thing. It's just that the execution is lacking here and there. But I'll take them over safe and unimaginative any day.
Yes I agree. Prequels not perfect but at least have some gravitas that was lost by AR and AVP
I think sticking to the beast as we know it is wrong and agree with the course of trying to expand the possibilities. Sure the Xenos are great but get over it.
It's like insisting on there being only T-101 s in Terminator movies, fun but lame
You can do all these things without shitting on the original creature whenever he brings it up.
Familiarity doesn't make something worn out. Sharks don't become less scary because we have seen them many times. Just because you use the Alien in an Alien movie doesn't make the film safe and unimaginative, I've always found that line of thinking to be black and white, its not an either/or situation. You can still include the Alien and make it effective, you just have to surround it with a good original story and well written characters.
And a lot of people would make the argument that Covenant does successfully do something new and original with the classic creature, and presents characters (especially David) that the audience finds engaging.
Yeah, of course you can use the alien in a movie without it being safe and unimaginative. Covenant proves that, even though the creature could've been handled much better. But I'm afraid they'll just go the safe route and make films that are basically remakes of the originals, instead of doing fresh and original things like the prequels.
Scott isn't shitting on the creature, he's just wondering if it's still as effective. While I believe you can still make the alien scary, I also believe he's right in the sense that you have to find new things to focus on, instead of just doing the same old stuff.
If you don't think Scott regularily saying the alien is "cooked" is sh*tting on the Alien, well then I have a house to sell yah.
I don't see that as shitting on it. He just thinks it's overdone, and well, he repeats himself a lot. :D
Quote from: 426Buddy on Sep 05, 2020, 06:58:32 PM
If you don't think Scott regularily saying the alien is "cooked" is sh*tting on the Alien, well then I have a house to sell yah.
If I have something in front of me that is cooked, I'm not going to shit on it. I'm going to season it. Spice it up a bit so that it adds something new to the flavor.
That's how I see
Covenant's take on the Alien, with its new origin and connection to David's evolution as a character. It's the same food, but it tastes different and leaves you feeling different.
And funny enough, the worst parts of
Covenant's capital-A Alien stuff, the chase on board the ship at the end, are the parts that are the closest to replicating the original film.
I feel very confident and full of admiration for Ridley. But, I have to agree with
@426. It is very repetitive and unnecessary. I like the scope of the prequels, but he don't need to undermine the Alien to make his point all the time. :laugh:
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 05, 2020, 06:49:20 PM
And a lot of people would make the argument that Covenant does successfully do something new and original with the classic creature, and presents characters (especially David) that the audience finds engaging.
As interesting as the somewhat esoteric themes of the prequels are, I think they are more made for a series than for movies, as others have already suggested in other threads. There's more time for character development, theme development, and creative freedom. Even so, I'm looking forward to a third prequel. Having said that, I hope it can become the best of the three to do a true redemption and justice to the concept.
The worst part of Covenant is the Alien parts, but that has more to do with a director that is completely uninterested in the creature to start with.
He says its cooked, then goes on to use it in a very uninspired way and says "see!? Its cooked!" :laugh:
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Sep 05, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
As interesting as the somewhat esoteric themes of the prequels are, I think they are more made for a series than for movies, as others have already suggested in other threads. There's more time for character development, theme development, and creative freedom. Even so, I'm looking forward to a third prequel. Having said that, I hope it can become the best of the three to do a true redemption and justice to the concept.
I certainly wouldn't be opposed to seeing the third prequel film transition into being some sort of limited series with the proper budget and care put in so that it retains the scope of a feature film balanced with the more deliberate pacing a single season might afford them.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 05, 2020, 07:20:02 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Sep 05, 2020, 06:58:32 PM
If you don't think Scott regularily saying the alien is "cooked" is sh*tting on the Alien, well then I have a house to sell yah.
If I have something in front of me that is cooked, I'm not going to shit on it. I'm going to season it. Spice it up a bit so that it adds something new to the flavor.
I don't interpret Ridley's comment that way. I think it's more like a wild animal attacking you is scary. If you become adept at catching that wild animal, and are able to cook it, and eat it, you have conquered it, and it is no longer scary.
What Ridley is missing, though, is that if the food that is on your plate suddenly starts attacking you, then that would be f**king scary. He needs to be able to see that there are other ways of using the creature.
@Seattle 24: You make a great point. Blumhouse would be the perfect company to purchase the Alien & Predator IPs. In regards to Ridley Scott, he needs to hang it up and put this prequel trilogy to bed. I'm tired of the prequels. I'd like to see films based off of the Alien novels from Titan Books and/or feature-length versions of the Alien shorts that came out in 2019.
Better to finish David's arc & right some wrongs, and then move on to do new things. Preferably using elements introduced in the prequels like the Neomorphs.
Many fans have been happy when Ridley Scott returned. Many fans will be happy when Ridley Scott goes away and leaves this franchise for good.
I can always count on Ridley to make me lose my shit by nonsense he says. :D
It's been 3 years since covenant released and Sir Ridley's schedule is full for next 2 or 3 years. It's nice to know he still try to make a sequel, but I won't count on what he said...
Can someone please stop Ridley from making garbage prequel/sequel films? Enough already, get him the f**k away from the franchise.
Some filmmakers just aren't cut out for revisiting their earlier works. I think Ridley is one of them. He should only make new stuff that's completely disconnected from what he's done before.
I think that's most revisiting stuff from 30-40 years ago. He's a totally different person, different sensibilities, different interests.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 06, 2020, 03:54:44 AM
He's a totally different person, different sensibilities, different interests.
I absolutely agree with this, but also, that's why I find it interesting that he's returned to the series with those new sensibilities and interests; it makes for an interesting lens through with to see more directly how he's changed over time and how he differently interprets the same general material now than he did years ago, which I find fun to watch play out both in the films and behind the scenes.
I'm sorry, I just don't see it happening.
When has Disney ever played it anything but safe?
I can't see them buying Alien series, then doing something super experimental with the franchise right out of the gate without the title creature.
I think it is 100 percent more likely that they will set a formula off what made the first two films successful and run with it.
To me it reads like he is relying on his name to try and get Disney to spot him some money so he can run with ANOTHER attempted reboot of the franchise.
I love the first film, and there were elements of Covenant that I like, but c'mon man, this dude has basically buried the franchise over the last decade.
For him to direct another sequel/prequel that directly ties into the mythology he'd have to sell out on his vision big time.
That or maybe they throw him a bone and let him develop a series set in the same universe that doesn't directly impact the films. His comments of late remind me of what his comments were in the void between Resurrection and Prometheus.
He's had his shot already, cut him loose.
I think the Prometheus/Covenant narrative could continue really well in some king of tv series, if they don't finish it with a movie.
Scott didn't bury the franchise, far from it. Alien3, Resurrection and the AVP films did that. If anything, Scott brought quality back to the series, whether people like them or not.
The whether people like them or not is kind of a huge deal.
Quote from: Evanus on Sep 06, 2020, 03:07:38 PM
Scott didn't bury the franchise, far from it. Alien3, Resurrection and the AVP films did that. If anything, Scott brought quality back to the series, whether people like them or not.
I agree
Just saw this video on YouTube. Spoiler warning for anyone who hasn't tuned in to Raised by Wolves yet
Spoiler
https://youtu.be/ZizaoOhZQg4
Quote from: Tichinde on Sep 04, 2020, 10:45:34 PM
Scott is the George Lucas of Alien, incomprehensible, insane, drunk, a little pudgy.
But we all miss him.
Lol! Yeah
The most insightful comment in this thread.
He talks about reinventing the wheel with Prometheus and Covenant. Maybe he's talking about the new origin to the aliens.
We always assumed the engineers were the creators of the alien, or that they were at least using the aliens thousands of years ago. Ridley tried to reinvent the origin by introducing David and establishing him as the creator using engineer technology.
Maybe he's saying he's considering retconning that. Maybe we'll get the reveal that many fans are asking for: David didn't actually create the alien as we know it. He was either reverse engineering the goo back to the mysterious alien that originated it or he was simply recreating what the engineers already made.
If Ridley/Disney were going to just abandon the prequel storyline entirely, I don't see why Ridley would still be involved. Why would he up for directing the reboot that abandons his story? And why would Disney even want him involved if they were so dissatisfied with his last two entries?
Covenant already lobbed a big softball for a retcon with David's frequent deceptions and his misattribution of Ozymandias. He can both lie
and be wrong.
Now he needs to experience something like this:
It seems Studios have a lot of faith in Ridley Scott. About ALIEN: I don't think it's the Greatest movie of his life. I prefer 9 or more of his other movies: PROMETHEUS, COVENANT, GLADIATOR, BLACK HAWK DOWN, AMERICAN GANGSTER, THE MARTIAN, THE DUELLISTS, BLADE RUNNER and BLACK RAIN. George Lucas only made Star Wars. Ridley Scott is very Unique because he made movies in All Genres. Ridley Scott is very similar to Spielberg. Spielberg is not JAWS. Spielberg made 50 other movies
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 07, 2020, 01:38:29 AM
Covenant already lobbed a big softball for a retcon with David's frequent deceptions and his misattribution of Ozymandias. He can both lie and be wrong.
Now he needs to experience something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHERkWZEnUg
Yeah I think given that he's an unreliable narrator there was plenty of room for two interpretations.
I am seeing a lot of news outlets carry this story. Hopefully it will provoke someone to prod him some more during Raised By Wolves press soon.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 04, 2020, 11:34:47 PM
Quote from: son_of_kane on Sep 04, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: reecebomb on Sep 04, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
That said I would happily look forward to his other sci fi projects, provided he gets a half decent script.
Will he EVER get around to making The Forever War? ???
Does Scott Free even hold the rights to that anymore? I can't remember the last time it was ever even mentioned in the media.
They'd lost the rights to it around when Covenant was being made.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Sep 05, 2020, 07:30:38 PM
The worst part of Covenant is the Alien parts, but that has more to do with a director that is completely uninterested in the creature to start with.
This. I still f**king love Covenant. I find the themes it's playing with particularly interesting, I still think David is fascinating and the whole frustration with creation aspect is something I love and think fits in with Alien (I've had the idea in the back of my head for a while now of someone who wants kids but can't, turns to the Aliens in some f**ked up way of getting children). But Covenant is definitely at it's worse once the Alien is introduced. Scott just doesn't handle it well and you can tell he was forced into including it in the film. And there's the whole it being a recent creation thing, but I'm sure we can tap-dance around that in another film.
The best part of covenant was the David and Walter interplay.
I didnt mind the neomorphs or the xenos, and think you can still explain away the xenos by simply saying that David followed instructions that were already there. To me Covenant was much better than Prometheus, but I still find it lacking behind the original trilogy by quite a degree.
It would've been better had they excluded the security team and made the married couples running the ship a bigger deal. Would've had more emotional impact.
From my point of view Prometheus and Covenant better than Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection.
I still don't know if I want a third film from Ridley. But I would go with something like Aliens: Apocalypse - The Destoying Angenls and Aliens: Outbreak / Armageddon.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 07, 2020, 07:50:59 AMBut Covenant is definitely at it's worse once the Alien is introduced. Scott just doesn't handle it well and you can tell he was forced into including it in the film. And there's the whole it being a recent creation thing, but I'm sure we can tap-dance around that in another film.
In reminds me of how Spider-Man 3 forced Venom into the story, which Sam Raimi clearly didn't want.
They told him we want f*cking Aliens, so he gave us f*cking Aliens.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 07, 2020, 06:25:30 PM
They told him we want f*cking Aliens, so he gave us f*cking Aliens.
Ridley f*cking giveth
(https://www.scified.com/topics/6319653552923624.gif)
And Ridley f*cking taketh
(https://i.imgur.com/IaEeGre.gif)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 07, 2020, 06:25:30 PM
They told him we want f*cking Aliens, so he gave us f*cking Aliens.
It's that simple...
Fox wanted aliens, so Ridley was forced to make them part of the story.
Otherwise Fox would have produced the Blomkamp fan film.
And thank god, don't touch Alien 3. Ripley's story is superb, why would you want to change that ...
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 07, 2020, 06:35:33 PM
And Ridley f*cking taketh
(https://i.imgur.com/IaEeGre.gif)
My heart bleeds
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 07, 2020, 06:25:30 PM
They told him we want f*cking Aliens, so he gave us f*cking Aliens.
Regarding the franchise, which is called... Alien! What could go wrong?
I think the biggest disappointment with the Covenant Alien is that it went full Cameron mode instead of the creepy slow stalking original mode. It just wasn't scary.
I still don't think it felt really off necessarily, it just felt like every other incarnation of the Alien that fans bitched about since the original. He fell right into that same trap that everybody after the original did. Making them shriek assault chainsaw monsters.
But there IS something to say it is over exposed now, its never going to be as scary as it was originally.
New movie? Yay!
Just don't let Scott get anywhere close to it.
He's definitely not what the franchise needs nowadays.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 07, 2020, 06:25:30 PM
They told him we want f*cking Aliens, so he gave us f*cking Aliens.
I think if Prometheus made at least $100 Million more, Ridley would have had more freedom and less required course correction.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 07, 2020, 07:50:59 AM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Sep 05, 2020, 07:30:38 PM
The worst part of Covenant is the Alien parts, but that has more to do with a director that is completely uninterested in the creature to start with.
This. I still f**king love Covenant. I find the themes it's playing with particularly interesting, I still think David is fascinating and the whole frustration with creation aspect is something I love and think fits in with Alien (I've had the idea in the back of my head for a while now of someone who wants kids but can't, turns to the Aliens in some f**ked up way of getting children). But Covenant is definitely at it's worse once the Alien is introduced. Scott just doesn't handle it well and you can tell he was forced into including it in the film. And there's the whole it being a recent creation thing, but I'm sure we can tap-dance around that in another film.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 07, 2020, 08:10:28 PM
I think the biggest disappointment with the Covenant Alien is that it went full Cameron mode instead of the creepy slow stalking original mode. It just wasn't scary.
I still don't think it felt really off necessarily, it just felt like every other incarnation of the Alien that fans bitched about since the original. He fell right into that same trap that everybody after the original did. Making them shriek assault chainsaw monsters.
But there IS something to say it is over exposed now, its never going to be as scary as it was originally.
I think these comments sum up how I, and I guess how quite a few others feel. On one hand, the creature has been worn down through sloppy creature design and bad movies (I don't think anyone would argue 2004-2007 were particularly bad years).
On the other hand,
Alien is still such a powerhouse of a movie from top to bottom. Within these pillars of excellency , is the creature designs, the execution and Bolaji's physically towering yet understated performance. It's a weird chasm to dissect because you watch
Alienand think there is no way this monster is "cooked" but it's another narrative when I watch some of the other movies.
With that being said, and understanding Ridley's comments, I feel really conflicted as to whether he should get another crack. Hand on heart, my immediate reaction to both
Prometheus and
Covenant after their opening nights was 6/10 each. I do like
Covenant more save the last 10 minutes. I do appreciate him opening up the doors to a wider universe - but I don't think his "prequels", specifically
Prometheus are not HALF as good as he thinks they are.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 07, 2020, 08:10:28 PM
I think the biggest disappointment with the Covenant Alien is that it went full Cameron mode instead of the creepy slow stalking original mode. It just wasn't scary.
To be fair to him, I will give Ridley major props for the scene in which the Alien enters the terraforming bay. I thought those moments of him upright where genuinely creepy.
Quote from: Magegg on Sep 08, 2020, 01:47:20 AM
He's definitely not what the franchise needs nowadays.
I have to agree. As much as I loved Alien and the majority of Covenant, I just don't have the faith in him for another.
Quote from: D88M on Sep 03, 2020, 10:56:51 AM
I hated the Alien in Alien Isolation, i had to cheat to finish the game which of course killed the game, the AI was completely broken and after hearing so much praise from everywhere for so long i was dissapointed.
The Alien is not omnipotent, it was ridiculous that he was over on me literally all the time and there was literally nothing i could do about it.
I remember once i was under a table around 15/20 minutes because the thing would just not leave the room.
I would go to the bathroom, eat something, talk to my family, come back and it was still going around. Awful.
I encountered some utterly ridiculous, game-breaking problems with the AI, either glitching or obviously cheating. That's why I refuse to praise it as a whole. The presentation style was some of the best material the series has had in decades, but the actual gameplay gave me nothing but annoyance and frustration.
Quote from: Cbass on Sep 03, 2020, 06:23:12 PM
Everyone wants a movie about the engineers. Literally. Far more interesting.
No, some people do. I doubt most do. I certainly do not.
The proper Space Jockeys they might be emulating, maybe, but not the contradictory Engineers.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Sep 03, 2020, 08:45:12 PM
Is there any better way to know what you are doing than Ridley's way? which is to follow your own artistic vision without giving a f**k on studio and fans.
One where you have a cohesive and genuinely compelling script, rather than fancifully going off on tangents for the sake of it.
'
Covenant' was one big slap in the face to those who had invested time and emotion in Shaw's story.
Quote from: Stompy the Perfect Xeno on Sep 03, 2020, 09:50:29 PM
Imagine a director saying the Predator might have run out of steam and wanting to explore pirates in the next film instead.
Perfect analogy.
Quote from: Evanus on Sep 05, 2020, 06:11:13 PM
I'm afraid that's the route Disney will take; safe and unimaginative films that try to recapture the magic of the originals.
That essentially describes the direction of the prequels for me. Unwillling to take genuinely interesting risks, playing everything safe and tropey, not bothering to take the basic concept of the ancient astronaut theory and imaginatively run with it.
It even diluted the magic of the Space Jockey reveal into something much safer and less interesting, by turning them into living marble statues of people.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 07, 2020, 06:25:30 PM
They told him we want f*cking Aliens, so he gave us f*cking Aliens.
No, he gave us a superficial imitation of them. Gone were the nightmarish, exoskeletal phantasms of Giger and Winston.
The prequels are anything but safe and unimaginative.
50/50
A lot of sites reporting it now, most of them under the impression that Scott said there won't be a sequel to Prometheus & Covenant. Wonder if that's what he really meant.
it's pretty funny, I rather understood that Ridley wanted to make a new film in the franchise without everything related to the alien.
I honestly don't mind the idea of tangential stuff like that. Of my problems with Prometheus, it's lack of Aliens was 100% not one of them. I wish Covenant had been entirely focused around the Neomorphs as their creature baddies. I personally think there is more to be found within the franchise that isn't the Alien with a capital-A.
Quote from: Evanus on Sep 09, 2020, 03:50:31 AM
A lot of sites reporting it now, most of them under the impression that Scott said there won't be a sequel to Prometheus & Covenant. Wonder if that's what he really meant.
That's the way I took it, based on this quote: "Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful". So honestly, "Ridley on Next Alien Prequel - "It's doubtful'" is just as much an accurate headline. :-\
A sort of reboot or soft reboot wouldn't be bad.
Alien³ and Resurrection crapped all over Ripley's arc.
And then Prometheus and especially Covenant pretty much destroyed the xenomorph mythos to ridiculous levels.
What Alien needs is an auteur who will do for the franchise what Nolan did for Batman. Familiar elements that fans know and love, yet different from the movies that came before. I don't believe that reinventing the wheel completely is required, you're only going to end up alienating large swathes of the fanbase that way.
We already have our Ripley! :)
(https://images.edexlive.com/uploads/user/imagelibrary/2020/6/11/original/gettyimages-485360238.jpg)
Well, I've pretty much given up on the third prequel by now.
(https://images.rapgenius.com/6za74k736pc03j9fp8h5gialh.500x223x11.gif)
The juxtaposition of the songs Cabin on the Lake into Lonely Perfection get me through
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 08, 2020, 04:04:30 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Sep 03, 2020, 08:45:12 PM
Is there any better way to know what you are doing than Ridley's way? which is to follow your own artistic vision without giving a f**k on studio and fans.
One where you have a cohesive and genuinely compelling script, rather than fancifully going off on tangents for the sake of it.
'Covenant' was one big slap in the face to those who had invested time and emotion in Shaw's story.
Fair enough. Covenant is more cohesive than Prometheus though.
Prometheus
Blade Runner 2049
Covenant
Raised by Wolves
Androids run out of steam for me....
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Sep 09, 2020, 10:53:40 AM
Quote from: Evanus on Sep 09, 2020, 03:50:31 AM
A lot of sites reporting it now, most of them under the impression that Scott said there won't be a sequel to Prometheus & Covenant. Wonder if that's what he really meant.
That's the way I took it, based on this quote: "Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful". So honestly, "Ridley on Next Alien Prequel - "It's doubtful'" is just as much an accurate headline. :-\
If there is no sequel then I don't know why he even opens his mouth? Disney don't need him for an Alien movie and Scott doesn't need Disney for another film about androids. ???
Ridley is constantly asked, so he has to open his mouth. :) Plus Ridley has a relationship with the Alien property itself. With three films under his belt including the one that started it all, Ridley has become the fatherly George Lucas of the Alien franchise of sorts. So I'm not surprised when Ridley is interviewed, that someone will bring up Alien again, again, and again.
Maybe 20th & Ridley have left open the possibility of more Alien talks down the road? I would assume severing ties with such a visionary director is the last thing they'd want to do. You don't want the experience to color other projects, even if they never do anything more with Alien. And Ridley has a relationship and ties with 20th that one would assume he wants to maintain as well. I guess we'll see. I wouldn't be surprised if 20th decides to reboot, they bounce ideas of Ridley and use him in some sort of advisory producer role.
Ridley did pre production on his Merlin saga for Disney he could come back to
QuoteKatherine Waterston was one of the darlings of the brief (and nearly concluded) fall festival season, with her stirring turn in Venice premiere "The World to Come" and her role in the HBO miniseries "The Third Day," which bowed in Toronto. The role that continues to follow her, however, is that of a Ripley-esque space commander in Ridley Scott's 2017 "Alien: Covenant." While promoting "The Third Day" in a recent interview with The Playlist, Waterston addressed her place in the future of the franchise.
Would she do another "Alien" film? "In a heartbeat. I loved working with Ridley and I loved playing that part. I hope we can! I would love it! I hope she's still alive!" Waterston said. (At the end of "Covenant," Waterston's character is in stasis, trapped and asleep in an escape pod after being lured by Michael Fassbender's David.)
Indiewire
Of course girl, you are still alive... of course
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/1b/26/001b26b5cdca1889cb2caad99eebe923.gif)
Daniels is alive and well on LV-426.
Spoiler
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zPkMd2nLRzQ/maxresdefault.jpg)
I want her to share Shaw's fate - but with us seeing all of tasty details this time
Spoiler
(https://pa1.narvii.com/6020/af7cd760d6f218ac479ae542e01523723e01697f_00.gif)
(https://pa1.narvii.com/6373/9263d34a42dc387de0a25c1d77d86961876c8d2e_hq.gif)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/19b1efa4d6d21d57f7c8c3e191a517be/tumblr_oobnjhuitu1s1v3r1o4_500.gifv)
Quote from: Stolen on Sep 27, 2020, 02:42:39 PM
QuoteKatherine Waterston was one of the darlings of the brief (and nearly concluded) fall festival season, with her stirring turn in Venice premiere "The World to Come" and her role in the HBO miniseries "The Third Day," which bowed in Toronto. The role that continues to follow her, however, is that of a Ripley-esque space commander in Ridley Scott's 2017 "Alien: Covenant." While promoting "The Third Day" in a recent interview with The Playlist, Waterston addressed her place in the future of the franchise.
Would she do another "Alien" film? "In a heartbeat. I loved working with Ridley and I loved playing that part. I hope we can! I would love it! I hope she's still alive!" Waterston said. (At the end of "Covenant," Waterston's character is in stasis, trapped and asleep in an escape pod after being lured by Michael Fassbender's David.)
Indiewire
Of course girl, you are still alive... of course
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/1b/26/001b26b5cdca1889cb2caad99eebe923.gif
https://theplaylist.net/katherine-waterston-third-day-interview-20200925/
Link for this one.
IMO it will be stupid for David to trap Daniels inside her cryopod only for her to somehow get loose in the next one
Quote from: Kradan on Sep 27, 2020, 04:20:54 PM
I want her to share Shaw's fate - but with us seeing all of tasty details this time
Spoiler
(https://pa1.narvii.com/6020/af7cd760d6f218ac479ae542e01523723e01697f_00.gif)
(https://pa1.narvii.com/6373/9263d34a42dc387de0a25c1d77d86961876c8d2e_hq.gif)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/19b1efa4d6d21d57f7c8c3e191a517be/tumblr_oobnjhuitu1s1v3r1o4_500.gifv)
Cannibal Holocaust?
Green Inferno.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Sep 10, 2020, 01:00:00 PM
Ridley is constantly asked, so he has to open his mouth. :) Plus Ridley has a relationship with the Alien property itself. With three films under his belt including the one that started it all, Ridley has become the fatherly George Lucas of the Alien franchise of sorts. So I'm not surprised when Ridley is interviewed, that someone will bring up Alien again, again, and again.
Maybe 20th & Ridley have left open the possibility of more Alien talks down the road?...
Sorry to be negative, but it's all in the hands of Disney now.
The comparison with George Lucas works at a surface level. Disney no longer wants either George's or Ridley's input.
Eventually there will be an Alien reboot but it won't involve Scott and the reboot will have nothing to do with the David storyline. That is done.
;)
Just as long as it's a soft-reboot... I'm fine with that.
Grrrrrr
I'm not
No reboot nonsense for me. I've got the original films on blu-ray, and they'll suit me just fine.
Reboot ahead of Prequel conclusion will mess up the canon & lore.
They could reinvent the wheel or make the best Alien movie ever in rebooting but by ignoring the Prequel conclusion it would always leave a caveat of ' Yeah but what about David, his facehuggers & the Covenant?'
It's kind of self defeating
A reboot would be a 2 fingers to Ridley who didn't exactly make outright bad films with the prequels, just interesting ok ones that deserve a resolution at least
Disney would probably prefer to have Ridley attached in some capacity for the relaunch. But he probably won't have anything to do with the next movie/TV show other than sign-off on the script. David? I'm guessing he'll make a fleeting appearance. The new characters may find his head and briefly reactivate him, and he'll tell them they are no match for the "perfect organism" (mirroring the Ash scene). Disney likes to regurgitate what worked before ;)
Quote from: bb-15 on Oct 05, 2020, 05:54:16 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Sep 10, 2020, 01:00:00 PM
Ridley is constantly asked, so he has to open his mouth. :) Plus Ridley has a relationship with the Alien property itself. With three films under his belt including the one that started it all, Ridley has become the fatherly George Lucas of the Alien franchise of sorts. So I'm not surprised when Ridley is interviewed, that someone will bring up Alien again, again, and again.
Maybe 20th & Ridley have left open the possibility of more Alien talks down the road?...
Sorry to be negative, but it's all in the hands of Disney now.
The comparison with George Lucas works at a surface level. Disney no longer wants either George's or Ridley's input.
Eventually there will be an Alien reboot but it won't involve Scott and the reboot will have nothing to do with the David storyline. That is done.
;)
I think your opinion is being presented with too many absolutes my friend! :). I have placed bets myself on what is / what will happen using industry trends and reasoning, but unless we sit in on their discussions, neither of us know truly what will or won't happen, what is done and what isn't.
I do suspect Ridley may be in some sort of advisory producer man-behind-the-curtain role at the least, considering his recent statement that more Alien is in process, but going directly back to the Prometheus/Covenant route is doubtful. But we shall see! :)
Quote from: Kradan on Oct 05, 2020, 09:55:42 AM
Grrrrrr
I'm not
Engineers created humans. David created the Xenomorph. To me the universe feels a little small and too painted in the corner to leave as is. To me. :)
Grrrrr
Not to me
Maybe things do feel a little small and too painted in the corner. So let's use the third prequel as an opportunity to make things a little more mysterious, while we still have the incredible talent of Ridley Scott and Michael Fassbender at our disposal. Tying things up neatly.
That's what I'd say, but Disney... who knows.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Oct 05, 2020, 07:45:14 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Oct 05, 2020, 09:55:42 AM
Grrrrrr
I'm not
Engineers created humans. David created the Xenomorph. To me the universe feels a little small and too painted in the corner to leave as is. To me. :)
All tied with a nice little bow. Not a fan.
I'm guessing that the next Alien prequel will drift even further from Prometheus as Raised by Wolves is pretty much an alternate version of Prometheus & Alien: Covenant set in an alternate universe. I feel like the show simply took Prom/A:C leftover ideas and spin-off ideas and turned it into its own thing without having the pressure of having to stay true to the universe and 'canon' established in the Alien movies.
Personally I have no issues with Scott potentially leaving tons of questions unanswered regarding loose ends and narratives presented in Prom/A:C as long as the bridge leading to ALIEN makes sense while at the same time bringing back mystery to the Derelict and the origin of the Alien. Leave us with a sense of looming fear, doom and gloom, that could potentially open to a series of movies taking place in the far future (far future as in a few decades up to a decennium after A:R).
Quote from: Kradan on Sep 27, 2020, 04:20:54 PM
I want her to share Shaw's fate - but with us seeing all of tasty details this time
Spoiler
(https://pa1.narvii.com/6020/af7cd760d6f218ac479ae542e01523723e01697f_00.gif)
(https://pa1.narvii.com/6373/9263d34a42dc387de0a25c1d77d86961876c8d2e_hq.gif)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/19b1efa4d6d21d57f7c8c3e191a517be/tumblr_oobnjhuitu1s1v3r1o4_500.gifv)
Yes!
Don't leave anything out. 8)
I really want Vickers back on a last Alien flick.
(https://i.ibb.co/m8GdfHc/Aeon-Flux-650x487.jpg)
Prometheus really did have a great cast.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Oct 09, 2020, 01:07:08 AM
I really want Vickers back on a last Alien flick.
(https://i.ibb.co/m8GdfHc/Aeon-Flux-650x487.jpg)
David should make a QUEEN out of HER ;) ;) ;)
Ridley needs to back the f**k off and let Blomkamp have his shot at the franchise
Quote from: Beef Dogg on Oct 11, 2020, 10:27:04 AM
Ridley needs to back the f**k off and let Blomkamp have his shot at the franchise
No thank you.
I'm more upset that Blomkamp lost Robocop than I am that he lost Alien.
Quote from: Beef Dogg on Oct 11, 2020, 10:27:04 AM
Ridley needs to back the f**k off and let Blomkamp have his shot at the franchise
I'm up for a Ridley film and a Blomkamp film. Got to finish the prequels.
Keep them both the heck away from it.
Nah. Riddlez gotta Riddle.
He's already done the damage, if you consider it that. No harm in letting him finish now, especially since the next movie after will likely be a sort of 'soft reboot' with a new cast/situation anyways.
More damage can indeed be done.
Excellent. 8)
That's the optimism I was looking forward.
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/1fa03641dbdcebfc16ee3bdc52ca81bf/tumblr_ou397j2kkB1teles0o1_250.gif)
Quote from: Huggs on Oct 11, 2020, 10:33:09 PM
Keep them both the heck away from it.
Quote from: Huggs on Oct 11, 2020, 11:08:44 PM
More damage can indeed be done.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/811/085/73e.gif)
I think finish the saga. Don't be a tease and leave us hanging. To be honest I've enjoyed the prequels.
The fool has had his chance.
My trust in him as an Alien universe savior crashed and burned with Prometheus.
He is now like that hobo in a trenchcoat you walk by in a big city. You never know what the fool my do. Might walk by you and you be okay, might start flipping at you doing naked cartwheels.
One order of naked cartwheels, please. And a side of android-induced body horror!
He should just keep pouring all of his energy into Raised by Wolves. That's clearly what he wants to be doing, not warming over a cooked beast.
Beyond the influences, the true creator is Aaron Guzikowski. Scott is one of the producer. There may be some love letters to him (made by other people of course) but strictly speaking, he has directed the first 2 episodes.
Quote from: Billiken on Oct 13, 2020, 12:24:44 AM
I think finish the saga. Don't be a prick tease and leave us hanging. To be honest I've enjoyed the prequels.
I applaud your honesty. Me too
I'd want Ridley as an exec producer on wherever the franchise heads to next. But the Beast itself requires a new director who is totally in awe of it. That's the only way forward for the series.
At last someone has seen the light. Now we wait.
(https://i.ibb.co/ph7jd9j/234effb5db231c63bb42eb9f3cc1b6bf.gif)
Quote from: Kradan on Oct 13, 2020, 10:07:24 AM
Quote from: Billiken on Oct 13, 2020, 12:24:44 AM
I think finish the saga. Don't be a prick tease and leave us hanging. To be honest I've enjoyed the prequels.
I applaud your honesty. Me too
No one's deliberately being a tease. It's more the almighty box office receipts have spoken.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Oct 13, 2020, 12:24:17 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Oct 13, 2020, 10:07:24 AM
Quote from: Billiken on Oct 13, 2020, 12:24:44 AM
I think finish the saga. Don't be a prick tease and leave us hanging. To be honest I've enjoyed the prequels.
I applaud your honesty. Me too
No one's deliberately being a tease. It's more the almighty box office receipts have spoken.
Yes! And on the grander scale of the stu
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Oct 13, 2020, 12:24:17 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Oct 13, 2020, 10:07:24 AM
Quote from: Billiken on Oct 13, 2020, 12:24:44 AM
I think finish the saga. Don't be a prick tease and leave us hanging. To be honest I've enjoyed the prequels.
I applaud your honesty. Me too
No one's deliberately being a tease. It's more the almighty box office receipts have spoken.
Yes! And on the grander scale of the movie business, the almighty box office has led to a huge merger between Disney and Fox.
The Alien/Predator franchises are just a pawn in the game of Disney buying Fox.
Disney has made a huge amount of money with Marvel. Fox owned Marvel properties; X-Men and Fantastic Four. Disney thinks these properties will add to their multibillion dollar Marvel empire. Disney is probably right.
* Where does that leave Alien? Disney wants to make $ billion box office movies. No new Alien film is going to make that much money. It's going to take years for Disney to get desperate enough to bet on a small budget, mediocre box office Alien movie. By that time I predict that the Alien franchise will get complete reboot.
PS. I enjoyed the prequels but imo the prequel saga is over.
;)
Seriously ? I think I had enough, thanks and bye Riddles !
If i'm to be honest, Ridley in most of his interviews doesn't make sense, he back peddles a lot and then contradicts himself.
Indeed.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4175/33733046713_9694753578_o.gif)
More Ridley back peddling, please.
Indeed 8)
Quote from: Guts on Mar 29, 2021, 01:32:51 AM
If i'm to be honest, Ridley in most of his interviews doesn't make sense, he pack peddles a lot and then contradicts himself.
I can't believe He's working so active at 83. This man is a living legend.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Mar 29, 2021, 01:39:28 PM
Indeed 8)
Quote from: Guts on Mar 29, 2021, 01:32:51 AM
If i'm to be honest, Ridley in most of his interviews doesn't make sense, he pack peddles a lot and then contradicts himself.
I can't believe He's working so active at 83. This man is a living legend.
Director Clint Eastwood has him beat! He just wrapped another film four weeks ago called 'Cry Macho' at the young age of 90! :o
Very honorable mention also for the great George Miller, who will give us Furiosa in 2023. He will then be 78 !
Furiosa is probably neck and neck with Robert Eggers' The Northman as my most anticipated upcoming film at this point.
Quote from: Guts on Mar 29, 2021, 01:32:51 AM
If i'm to be honest, Ridley in most of his interviews doesn't make sense, he pack peddles a lot and then contradicts himself.
That's how evolution works.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 29, 2021, 01:48:21 PM
Director Clint Eastwood has him beat! He just wrapped another film four weeks ago called 'Cry Macho' at the young age of 90! :o
To be fair, his films are much smaller in scope. Ridley still does big scale productions.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 29, 2021, 04:21:52 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 29, 2021, 01:48:21 PM
Director Clint Eastwood has him beat! He just wrapped another film four weeks ago called 'Cry Macho' at the young age of 90! :o
To be fair, his films are much smaller in scope. Ridley still does big scale productions.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/72eb3548f59149140dd0fe8353651e88/tenor.gif)
Yes, but Eastwood directed 40% more movies (ballpark-ing the percentage). And it doesn't count all the movies and shows he just acted in. Plus he's 90! ;D
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/NASA_Journey_to_Mars_and_%E2%80%9CThe_Martian%22_%28201508180030HQ%29.jpg)
Grrrr......
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/03/a7/b1/03a7b12c7c38357da33035fe54cd67c4.gif)
But I'm not diminishing Ridley here. No way! Scott still doing what he's doing at 83 is most, most impressive. I can only hope when I hit that age I'll have the stamina that he has. Or Eastwood. Or even Betty White at 99 for that matter! We would all be so lucky!
But regarding a third Alien prequel, while I don't believe we'll see it realized theatrically or on television, if Ridley does have a coherent script completed, I would love for someone to adapt it into novel form at Titan one day. That would be my hope.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 29, 2021, 04:48:11 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 29, 2021, 04:21:52 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 29, 2021, 01:48:21 PM
Director Clint Eastwood has him beat! He just wrapped another film four weeks ago called 'Cry Macho' at the young age of 90! :o
To be fair, his films are much smaller in scope. Ridley still does big scale productions.
https://media.tenor.com/images/72eb3548f59149140dd0fe8353651e88/tenor.gif
Yes, but Eastwood directed 40% more movies (ballpark-ing the percentage).
Eastwood is great. I loved him in his spaghetti westerns and several other of his classic films.
However, Ridley has more director credits (56) compared with Eastwood (43). (Source; IMDb)
;)
Somebody needs to be makin' some time to get a new Alien movie done.
I bloody hope so.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 29, 2021, 04:21:52 PM
Quote from: Guts on Mar 29, 2021, 01:32:51 AM
If i'm to be honest, Ridley in most of his interviews doesn't make sense, he pack peddles a lot and then contradicts himself.
That's how evolution works.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 29, 2021, 01:48:21 PM
Director Clint Eastwood has him beat! He just wrapped another film four weeks ago called 'Cry Macho' at the young age of 90! :o
To be fair, his films are much smaller in scope. Ridley still does big scale productions.
Well it's gotten worse as he's got older tbh. Stuff he says makes no sense lmao. Still love listening to Ridley, especially on the behind the scenes of making his movies, it's great to see his thought process. But yeh, he's all over the place with train of thought and direction during interviews. I don't think even himself knows the direction of the Alien series half of the time, the guy's probably winging ideas and seeing which one sticks.
Ridley is quite possibly, a crazy man.
Clint didn't have a space monster named after him.
Love him for it.
I wish we could've seen a Tony Scott Alien film.
Quote from: Guts on Apr 06, 2021, 07:10:37 AM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 29, 2021, 04:21:52 PM
Quote from: Guts on Mar 29, 2021, 01:32:51 AM
If i'm to be honest, Ridley in most of his interviews doesn't make sense, he pack peddles a lot and then contradicts himself.
That's how evolution works.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 29, 2021, 01:48:21 PM
Director Clint Eastwood has him beat! He just wrapped another film four weeks ago called 'Cry Macho' at the young age of 90! :o
To be fair, his films are much smaller in scope. Ridley still does big scale productions.
Well it's gotten worse as he's got older tbh. Stuff he says makes no sense lmao. Still love listening to Ridley, especially on the behind the scenes of making his movies, it's great to see his thought process. But yeh, he's all over the place with train of thought and direction during interviews. I don't think even himself knows the direction of the Alien series half of the time, the guy's probably winging ideas and seeing which one sticks.
I hope we get to see whatever sticks next.
From a new interview with The Independent:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBglTNQXMAcm9ii?format=png&name=small)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 12, 2021, 05:07:55 PM
From a new interview with The Independent:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBglTNQXMAcm9ii?format=png&name=small
We've also been
discussing it? here...
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=64564.1470
Ah, ok thanks, somehow missed that!
Is there any chance that we will ever get the script of Awakening, if we never see it on screen ?
I sincerely doubt it.
Perhaps a Titan novelization one day!
Yeah when the film comes out. 😋
As long as I have the story I'm happy. Of course, I would have preferred a film but the most important is the story. So a script, a novel... i's better than nothing !
I don't know if I fully agree with that one. On paper, I didn't like what Alien: Covenant seemed to be at all. It wasn't until I actually saw the on-screen execution that I came around to really dig it.
Of course there is a different experience ... I would much prefer to have a film too, but if it's the only solution for us to have the story, then I adapt ^^ '
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 12, 2021, 05:07:55 PM
From a new interview with The Independent:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBglTNQXMAcm9ii?format=png&name=small
I would argue that Prometheus directly contributed to the box office performance of Covenant. I enjoy Prometheus overall, but is has some messy issues, and the alien being present was hardly what did Covenant in. Frankly, the alien wasn't necessary, but it did provide for a good climax.
QuoteAs he told me when I spoke with him for this week's episode of my Deadline video series Behind the Lens, this new film will have just six major battle sequences as opposed to only one in some past films based on the historical figure. As you might recall, none other than Stanley Kubrick was planning a Napoleon film that just never got off the ground, but that is almost never the case with Scott, who also has a new sequel to his 2000 Best Picture Oscar winner Gladiator, and another chapter in the Alien saga in the pipeline.
Quotebut that is almost never the case with Scott, who also has a new sequel to his 2000 Best Picture Oscar winner Gladiator, and another chapter in the Alien saga in the pipeline
Quoteand another chapter in the Alien saga in the pipeline
....
Source Deadline:
https://deadline.com/video/ridley-scott-behind-the-lens/ (https://deadline.com/video/ridley-scott-behind-the-lens/)
I'll believe it when I see the trailer
Or no bloody helmets...
How about that: I predict there will be a underwater sequence and nobody will be wearing any breathing gear
Quote from: Local Trouble on Dec 31, 2021, 09:40:54 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Dec 31, 2021, 09:10:37 PM
I'll believe it when I see the half-helmets
Fixed.
Fixed.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-rAduYWQPekH_fAZiCVkSwQNXYXJTfAPjbg&usqp=CAU)
Hmmmm. Curious. I wonder if things have picked up theatrically with him and Scott Free coming on to produce the show.
(https://c.tenor.com/qu21zSfsejEAAAAM/endgame-avengers.gif)
Yeah, my initial gut reaction is that this is referring to the TV series.
But... I do want to believe.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Jan 01, 2022, 06:09:06 PM
Yeah, my initial gut reaction is that this is referring to the TV series.
But... I do want to believe.
If you read the whole story, you'll see that the tv series is dealt with separately. They are also referring to projects that Scott will direct in that paragraph, Kitbag, Gladiator 2...
I hope its true. Despite polarising opinion of his prequel films, he deserves to finish the trilogy.
Be quite fitting if it turns out to be his final theatrical production before deciding to retire.
That being said Scott appears to drink from the same fountain of youth as William Shatner so who knows...
Ridley is never going to retire. Right 'til the bitter end, he's going to be making movies, and bless him for that. Can't wait for Kitbag, I'm very curious to see what the Gladiator sequel is going to be, and I'm crossing everything I have in hopes for an Alien: Covenant sequel.
I would love if Ridley's next project turned out to be his retirement plans. When everybody's least expecting it he'll go all "Hahaha, f**k you, no more movies" and fly on the rocket to the Mars to plant potatoes on his poops for the rest of his days
https://twitter.com/cremildosquared/status/1499483499174285312
Does this mean there is no prequel for now? Help! ???
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 04, 2022, 05:35:06 PM
https://twitter.com/cremildosquared/status/1499483499174285312
Please.....
Ridley having the power he has over this franchise is probably the worst thing that happened to it since Colonial Marines
Ahahaha not even close, it is Colonial Marines, then Requiem, Marvel's Alien and then The Predator in terms of awful offensive shit.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 05, 2022, 10:35:15 AM
Ahahaha not even close, it is Colonial Marines, then Requiem, Marvel's Alien and then The Predator in terms of awful offensive shit.
Marvel's Alien can easily be ruled off as shitty non canon comics, not these movies, and unlike Ridley, they aren't the one preventing other projects from being made like Alien 5 or god knows how many other movie pitchs that didn't follow Ridley's shitty canon.
Also, I said "worst
since", not the worst. And Predator isn't Alien so I'm not sure why you included The predator there.
Well I guess I just plain don't agree.
Frankly between Elysium and Chappie and Demonic we lost out on nothing by that never coming to fruition.
And there's aspects of the prequels I enjoy, it's not the creatively bankrupt Star Wars films under Disney we are talking about, they are interesting enough.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 05, 2022, 10:35:15 AM
Ahahaha not even close, it is Colonial Marines, then Requiem, Marvel's Alien and then The Predator in terms of awful offensive shit.
Agreed
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Mar 05, 2022, 10:53:17 AM
Also, I said "worst since", not the worst. And Predator isn't Alien so I'm not sure why you included The predator there.
You tell her, PAS !
Covenant is the most intetesting the series has been since '92.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 05, 2022, 12:30:00 PM
Covenant is the most intetesting the series has been since '92.
100%
I really like Covenant, flaws and all. Just like with Alien 3 really.
Just wasn't keen on the David/creator aspect.
I thought David was the best thing about the prequels. Not too keen on him making the Alien, but they could still explain it away later by saying he was just some crazy android making shit up or that he followed the end design of someone else for the Alien in the very least it makes sense on why the facehuggers are designed the way they are.
I was much more bothered by Prometheus take on just about everything though than I was Covenant.
And Ridley Scott does have too much power over the franchise and I always wonder why. He was AWOL from the franchise for years and somehow came back and became the primary voice for the franchise in which he constantly hears everything he puts forth as a good idea from the echo chamber he's created.
It's not that I dislike Ridley, it just that nobody has told him no and he just makes some wile'in out crazy ass ideas that make no sense.
Most tentpole releases these days don't have nearly enough wile'in out crazy ass ideas, so I'll take them where I can get them, even if they're a bit messy. ;)
Because looking at a rock painting and somehow acquiring astro coordinates is high art.
Mans is crazy.
And he's surrounded himself with people who tell him everything he touches is golden. It's also the same retread ideas that have been around in the EU for decades. But it is professionally done now because they've got a hollywood playwright penning the script, instead of some comic dude. But bad is bad at all levels. At least the comics had some sort of charm to them. Meanwhile I'm watching Prometheus thinking about how crazy it is that the first half of Prometheus is essentially the first half of AvP. I mean even Paul Anderson writer of the RE movies knew that to locate the pyramid he had to use satellite technology and NOT mythical cave paintings.
Reminds me of the whole Bill Burr talking about Elvis wearing a onesie, kicking and ripping it, and letting his balls hang out.
"You like it, you like it when I kick and my royal balls hang out?"
"We love it king, keep going!"
When Scott finally decides to let this franchise go, will finally be the time that the franchise can move forward because it isn't held hostage by an old man's random flavor of the week thought process.
Somebody get Denis V to do an Alien movie before he's twenty more years into his career and goes wild like Scott.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 06, 2022, 04:36:20 AM
Because looking at a rock painting and somehow acquiring astro coordinates is high art.
Oh, I'm much more referring to
Covenant here than
Prometheus.
Prometheus is my least favorite of the six films. Interesting ideas, beautiful cinematography, and a godawful script and even worse editing...
I don't think every single Ridley touches is gold, but I do think he's consistently interesting, I love
Covenant, and he's been on a real hot streak with
The Last Duel and
House of Gucci. I want to see him get to bring his vision to a close, even if the specifics of that vision are in flux every time a new idea interests him.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 06, 2022, 04:36:20 AM
Somebody get Denis V to do an Alien movie before he's twenty more years into his career and goes wild like Scott.
I really love Denis, but I think his style is a bit too sterile for this particular world.
Jennifer Kent and Jonathan Glazer are names that come to mind as people who would make very intetesting
Alien movies.
Jonathan Glazer might take a good fifteen years to make anything though.
And I'd love it, but I think I'd already know what it might be if that makes sense? Even his Live With Me video for Massive Attack tackles similar themes to Under The Skin.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 06, 2022, 12:04:09 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 06, 2022, 04:36:20 AM
Because looking at a rock painting and somehow acquiring astro coordinates is high art.
Oh, I'm much more referring to Covenant here than Prometheus. Prometheus is my least favorite of the six films. Interesting ideas, beautiful cinematography, and a godawful script and even worse editing...
I don't think every single Ridley touches is gold, but I do think he's consistently interesting, I love Covenant, and he's been on a real hot streak with The Last Duel and House of Gucci. I want to see him get to bring his vision to a close, even if the specifics of that vision are in flux every time a new idea interests him.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 06, 2022, 04:36:20 AM
Somebody get Denis V to do an Alien movie before he's twenty more years into his career and goes wild like Scott.
I really love Denis, but I think his style is a bit too sterile for this particular world.
Jennifer Kent and Jonathan Glazer are names that come to mind as people who would make very intetesting Alien movies.
The fact that I must acknowledge Prometheus in relation to Covenant is what irks me.
It is funny though, stylistically I thought that Covenant was the most sterile looking film out of all the Alien main movies. It is better when they are planet side but I remember thinking that the space scenes didn't have Scott's typical well used look.
I personally don't think we will get well established directors in the Alien verse anymore. Just because directors and writers are going to see how Scott has wrote them into a corner.
They do something unrelated to the prequels and people will bitch about leaving the prequels unfinished. They do something in the prequels and people will bitch because they are the prequels. They reboot the franchise and people will bitch because of the reboot.
I don't think anyone's complaining now, we are getting a completely standalone Alien film, a Predator film soon, and a TV Series, what reasonably more could you ask for other than also a theatrical conclusion to the prequels?
A couple of years ago, some people were afraid that with the purchase of FOX, the IPs were going to be frozen for years. Now we have all these projects underway and people are still afraid. :laugh:
Still, it's true that Disney's handling of STAR Wars is questionable, Monsters belong on the big screen and a conclusion to the prequels has its appeal.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 06, 2022, 04:29:44 PM
I don't think anyone's complaining now, we are getting a completely standalone Alien film, a Predator film soon, and a TV Series, what reasonably more could you ask for other than also a theatrical conclusion to the prequels?
A reset on AvP, set in the future with Muhreenz.
But at this rate, that'll be announced in a week or two.
I wonder if Disney would be crazy enough to make an animated AVP movie from the Predator's point of view. I mean, they're the main characters. There would be human in between of course. But our hero/heroine is a Predator.
Would be neat
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Mar 06, 2022, 06:57:48 PM
I wonder if Disney would be crazy enough to make an animated AVP movie from the Predator's point of view. I mean, they're the main characters. There would be human in between of course. But our hero/heroine is a Predator.
That was probably one of them anime things that got shelved tbh.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Mar 06, 2022, 07:52:08 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Mar 06, 2022, 06:57:48 PM
I wonder if Disney would be crazy enough to make an animated AVP movie from the Predator's point of view. I mean, they're the main characters. There would be human in between of course. But our hero/heroine is a Predator.
That was probably one of them anime things that got shelved tbh.
True that.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Mar 06, 2022, 05:22:27 PM
A couple of years ago, some people were afraid that with the purchase of FOX, the IPs were going to be frozen for years. Now we have all these projects underway and people are still afraid. :laugh:
Still, it's true that Disney's handling of STAR Wars is questionable, Monsters belong on the big screen and a conclusion to the prequels has its appeal.
I'll believe it when I see it on the small screen. Alien series might have the most announced, unannounced and mysteriously disappearing sequels in all of moviedom.
And half of them are named Alien 3. :laugh:
Many Alien V's as well.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 06, 2022, 03:34:54 PMI personally don't think we will get well established directors in the Alien verse anymore. Just because directors and writers are going to see how Scott has wrote them into a corner.
Scott's not the issue going forward, Disney is. Anyone who thinks that Disney are going to allow interesting directors to do something artistic and bold with the series are kidding themselves. Disney is not a director's studio. They are notorious for hiring directors who will tow the line and follow the suits' will, lest they be given marching orders and replaced. Heck, Ridley Scott himself said that he would never direct a Star Wars movie under Disney for that exact reason...
Quote"No, no. I'm too dangerous for that. Because I know what I'm doing. [Laughs.] I think they like to be in control, and I like to be in control myself. When you get a guy who's done a low-budget movie and you suddenly give him $180 million, it makes no sense whatsoever. It's f---in' stupid. You know what the reshoots cost? Millions! Millions. You can get me for my fee, which is heavy, but I'll be under budget and on time. This is where experience does matter, it's as simple as that! It can make you dull as dishwater, but if you're really experienced and you know what you're doing, it's f---ing essential. Grow into it, little by little. Start low-budget, get a little bit bigger, maybe after $20 million, you can go to $80. But don't suddenly go to $160."
Disney like to hire up and coming directors, with good critical notices for their indie films, and put them to work on tentpole franchise movies. The caveat being that said directors have no freedom to actually be creative (which is preciously why they go for critically respected but relatively low key, less renowned directors; because they are more easily controlled). They are there to execute Disney's vision. You can expect all of the Alien projects to be safe, market focused and bland from this point forward. Disney can talk the talk about how a newly announced Alien movie is daring, unique or different all they want. It's BS; nowt but PR speak. It won't be, because Disney are pulling the strings and Disney is in the business of exploiting intellectual properties and casting their net as wide as possible across the audience demographics. Bland, 'member berries mulch is what you can expect from here on out.
Disney knows how to make money.
Prometheus tie into Alien and there being no Alien standalone movie for more than a decade got them their sales on that picture. After people saw how underwhelming Covenant was and spread word of mouth, Covenant sales tanked.
Sometimes you can go to experiential, and during covenant I was sitting behind some teens who were practically rolling their eyes and trash talking the movie at the Walter and David scenes.
It needs to be brought down to earth a little bit or common fan isn't going to watch them. And common fan outnumbers Alien fan by quite a bit, and common fan is what sales pictures.
I think they will keep the Fox label to release R rated pictures and people just wont know now that Fox is Disney, so people won't expect Disney blockbuster for every film. This might let them be a little bit less controlling, since R rated films by their nature are shown to LESS people than PG13 so they shouldn't be expecting as huge of returns.
If Disney releases Aliens as Disney pictures then yes, the Alien as we know it is over.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 06, 2022, 11:58:37 PM
Disney knows how to make money.
Prometheus tie into Alien and there being no Alien standalone movie for more than a decade got them their sales on that picture. After people saw how underwhelming Covenant was and spread word of mouth, Covenant sales tanked.
Sometimes you can go to experiential, and during covenant I was sitting behind some teens who were practically rolling their eyes and trash talking the movie at the Walter and David scenes.
You can bemoan the prequels all you want (and believe me, I'll join you because I am not a fan), but at least they tried to do something different and move the series in a fresh direction. The problem wasn't the boldness of doing something different (such as exploring the mystery of the Space Jockey species), it was the execution. You can kiss such bold, fresh takes - good or bad - goodbye, now that The Mouse is in charge.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 06, 2022, 11:58:37 PMI think they will keep the Fox label to release R rated pictures and people just wont know now that Fox is Disney, so people won't expect Disney blockbuster for every film. This might let them be a little bit less controlling, since R rated films by their nature are shown to LESS people than PG13 so they shouldn't be expecting as huge of returns.
If Disney releases Aliens as Disney pictures then yes, the Alien as we know it is over.
Yeah, but also note that Star Wars is Lucasfilm, not Disney directly. It's still Disney though and you can expect them to ruin Alien in the same way that they've ruined Star Wars; oversaturation of releases (a TV series and a film already announced) and said releases being as safe and by the numbers as possible.
As you say though, The Mouse certainly knows how to make money; by appealing to the lowest common denominator. Plenty of people love the Star Wars sequel trilogy or the Star Wars TV series (beyond my comprehension as to why exactly because they're all unequivocally trash) and plenty of people just want to see the same thing they've seen a thousand times before, regurgitated onscreen via 'member berries, so yeah, I'm sure Disney will do very well with the Alien franchise in terms of making money. I don't care about money though. I care about artistic expression, over commercial considerations, when it comes to making a film and that's almost certainly not what we'll be getting from here on out.
You want to see what Disney will do with Alien? Look at Star Wars or Marvel. It's EXACTLY the same approach they'll take (just on a smaller level). Some will be happy enough with that. I sure as shit won't though. I appreciate art, not cOnSoOmInG cOnTeNt.
I'm just saying there is a reason that we never got a sequel to Covenant. Because it didn't make money.
If you are in business the end result IS money and all fans of the series interested in new content should have more than a passing interest in how the films do financially as well.
If you go to experimental and you lose audience then you just don't get a sequel.
So nobody wants to see the same take over and over in the films for sure. But you won't get to see ANY take on ANY film if there is no money coming back in for the releases.
Its the same reason there was no sequel to AvP2. The film was so trash that the AvP franchise was thought a dead end franchise that couldn't make money. So they axed it.
For AvP at least I think the mousehouse might've been the best place for it to end up. Tonally the AvP franchise in all media is never has hardcore as the standalone franchises (when the franchise goes extra gory like AvP2010 it gets super cheesy storytelling), so a PG13 mass market appeal release I could see working with them moreso than the individual franchises.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 07, 2022, 01:13:35 AM
I'm just saying there is a reason that we never got a sequel to Covenant. Because it didn't make money.
I understand and appreciate that. I don't even particularly want to see a followup to Covenant, personally speaking.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 07, 2022, 01:13:35 AMSo nobody wants to see the same take over and over in the films for sure. But you won't get to see ANY take on ANY film if there is no money coming back in for the releases.
Suits me just fine. I don't crave any more Alien movies or a TV series. I don't like that what started out as art has now become a "franchise". I know that concept is alien to a lot of fans (if you'll pardon the pun); the idea that unless there's a really interesting story to be told, that maybe the series should just be left alone, but it's how I feel. I don't need a new movie or TV series just because. If they're gonna make another one, then there better be a damn good reason to do so, but now that Disney is in charge, they'll beat this horse to death and milk every last possible cent from it.
Kind of feel the same way but not. Part of me knows the Apex of the franchise was the first three movies.
But part of me wants to feel that way again no matter how many times somebody has to try to get it right.
I also yearn for a properly great Alien film again, despite how out of reach that feels right now. I would just love to feel that excitement again.
It can be annoying to think about, because in all the movies since AR, there's still been bits of brilliance scattered throughout here and there. It's like a tease. But I think it's those parts that I enjoy that keeps my hope alive; like someone will eventually catch on and get it right.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 06, 2022, 01:30:42 AM
I thought David was the best thing about the prequels. Not too keen on him making the Alien, but they could still explain it away later by saying he was just some crazy android making shit up or that he followed the end design of someone else for the Alien in the very least it makes sense on why the facehuggers are designed the way they are.
I was much more bothered by Prometheus take on just about everything though than I was Covenant.
And Ridley Scott does have too much power over the franchise and I always wonder why. He was AWOL from the franchise for years and somehow came back and became the primary voice for the franchise in which he constantly hears everything he puts forth as a good idea from the echo chamber he's created.
It's not that I dislike Ridley, it just that nobody has told him no and he just makes some wile'in out crazy ass ideas that make no sense.
Yes, to all of this. I thoroughly Covenant - warts and all. David is easily the best thing to come from the prequels and I absolutely love him. Dislike the creator angle but again, ways around this going forwards, but I like the thematic elements of him being the creator. Love the notion of this being his expressions of sexual desire he can't express in other ways.
And completely agree with your thoughts on Ridley. He needs to be told No and people aren't doing it. Love his style, don't love his narrative ideas.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 06, 2022, 03:34:54 PM
I personally don't think we will get well established directors in the Alien verse anymore. Just because directors and writers are going to see how Scott has wrote them into a corner.
They do something unrelated to the prequels and people will bitch about leaving the prequels unfinished. They do something in the prequels and people will bitch because they are the prequels. They reboot the franchise and people will bitch because of the reboot.
This is one of the reasons I'm really curious about the new film in development. I'm quite happy for them to leave David up in the air and never touch it. I'm too afraid of where Scott will take it. There's no need to reboot it either. Just do what Alvarez is doing, as the comics tend to, and go do something standalone.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Mar 06, 2022, 06:44:59 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 06, 2022, 04:29:44 PM
I don't think anyone's complaining now, we are getting a completely standalone Alien film, a Predator film soon, and a TV Series, what reasonably more could you ask for other than also a theatrical conclusion to the prequels?
A reset on AvP, set in the future with Muhreenz.
But at this rate, that'll be announced in a week or two.
Yes. please.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Mar 06, 2022, 06:57:48 PM
I wonder if Disney would be crazy enough to make an animated AVP movie from the Predator's point of view. I mean, they're the main characters. There would be human in between of course. But our hero/heroine is a Predator.
And yes please to that too. I'm dying to see AvP done in some stylized fashion, doing it from a Predator PoV with no dialogue - or just the creatures in general, no dialogue - is something I'd absolutely love to see.
After watching Prometheus yesterday, and Alien Covenant today, with people who had never seen them before didn't like David getting away at the end, want to see an end to the story.
Oh and they thought Alien Covenant overall better lower lows higher highs, even though Prometheus had several more memorable characters, but liked Daniels and Tennessee best, and they absolutely loved the Neomorphs.
Took several issues with the films, felt Prometheus kinda interesting, but felt more engaged with Alien Covenant overall during viewing.
Felt Elizabeth Shaw as a protagonist got cheated, but then everyone does that's kinda the point, and set up an antagonist that you despise so we APPARENTLY NEED A CONCLUSION.
Show them the Advent short and get them even more annoyed, then maybe they'll join the online movement... and bring our numbers up to about a dozen.
Also something that got me thinking, lots of people do not care much for The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones but do really enjoy Revenge of the Sith, by not getting a proper conclusion we will never know it might have turned out to be the best one.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 20, 2022, 01:08:58 AM
After watching Prometheus yesterday, and Alien Covenant today, with people who had never seen them before didn't like David getting away at the end, want to see an end to the story.
Did you tell them that David will become the Space Jockey?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 20, 2022, 02:54:12 AM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 20, 2022, 01:08:58 AM
After watching Prometheus yesterday, and Alien Covenant today, with people who had never seen them before didn't like David getting away at the end, want to see an end to the story.
Did you tell them that David will become the Space Jockey?
There are limits...
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 20, 2022, 02:28:44 AM
Also something that got me thinking, lots of people do not care much for The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones but do really enjoy Revenge of the Sith, by not getting a proper conclusion we will never know it might have turned out to be the best one.
I've always compared it to that. Even if people didn't like Episodes 1 & 2, wouldn't they be frustrated if 2 bombed, 3 was cancelled, and there was forever a gap in the narrative?
Not if 1 and 2 were leading up to Jar Jar becoming Darth Vader.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KNdXluAiLQk (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KNdXluAiLQk)
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 20, 2022, 02:28:44 AM
Also something that got me thinking, lots of people do not care much for The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones but do really enjoy Revenge of the Sith, by not getting a proper conclusion we will never know it might have turned out to be the best one.
You just made a great point!
Maybe that's also Cameron's approach with these Avatar films ;D
Do we have any actual reason to believe David being the jockey is where this was going? People seem so sure of it.
I recall Andrew Gaska saying he was going to privately tell Hicks and Ridgetop his theory as to where Ridley wanted to take it... I've been very curious if he thinks Ridley was planning on making David the jockey.
Quote from: Nukiemorph on Mar 20, 2022, 05:22:25 AM
Do we have any actual reason to believe David being the jockey is where this was going?
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/32IP6IxfvBSfKD04Io/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 20, 2022, 03:37:45 AM
Not if 1 and 2 were leading up to Jar Jar becoming Darth Vader.
Millburn & Fifield died in episode l
Quote from: Nukiemorph on Mar 20, 2022, 05:22:25 AM
Do we have any actual reason to believe David being the jockey is where this was going? People seem so sure of it.
I'm asking myself the same question
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 20, 2022, 03:37:45 AM
Not if 1 and 2 were leading up to Jar Jar becoming Darth Vader.
I'm not among them Jar Jar diehard haters but comparing him to David is downright insulting >:(
For me David is like Darth Maul but even cooler 8)
I don't remember David having zero lines and no character whatsoever :P
Spoiler
And don't you dare saying "BuT hE wAs FlEsHeD oUt MoRe In ThE ClOnE wArS !!!"
Quote from: Kradan on Mar 20, 2022, 06:51:04 AM
I don't remember David having zero lines and no character whatsoever :P
Maul didn't even need those to be memorable. The basic setup through the movie and then that 200% edgy design tell you everything you need to know.
WHAT does it tell me ? That he looks BADASS ?
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 20, 2022, 02:28:44 AM
Also something that got me thinking, lots of people do not care much for The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones but do really enjoy Revenge of the Sith, by not getting a proper conclusion we will never know it might have turned out to be the best one.
I've been making the same comparison in my head. Not even getting a conclusion to this story is just making things worse in my opinion. They're pretty much leaving a massive gaping hole if they don't do another one. But I guess the powers that be don't really care about that. Even if a third film is greenlit they'd probably force Ridley to do something he doesn't want to do, and that might be the whole reason we're not getting another one. He's probably moved on.
I almost have to wonder if, at this stage, Ridley might wish that he directed Blade Runner 2049 instead and handed Alien: Covenant off to someone else? Especially given that he is now doling out out Alien projects (while still keeping them under his Scott Free banner) to guys like Noah Hawley and Fede Álvarez, but in the case of the upcoming Blade Runner 2099 series, there are rumors circulating that he actually intends to direct some episodes of that one.
Quote from: Kradan on Mar 20, 2022, 06:51:04 AM
I don't remember David having zero lines and no character whatsoever :P
How dare you! Darth Maul had a line in
The Phantom Menace; "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge". So much information is contained within those words. He is an angry Sith who hates Jedi. Such character depth!
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 20, 2022, 01:49:25 PM
I've been making the same comparison in my head. Not even getting a conclusion to this story is just making things worse in my opinion. They're pretty much leaving a massive gaping hole if they don't do another one. But I guess the powers that be don't really care about that.
Well, I mean why would they?
Alien Covenant failed to even breakeven at the box office, much less make a profit. There's not exactly a great incentive there for them to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into concluding a plot thread, just to make fans happy.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 20, 2022, 02:05:17 PM
I almost have to wonder if, at this stage, Ridley might wish that he directed Blade Runner 2049 instead and handed Alien: Covenant off to someone else? Especially given that he is now doling out out Alien projects (while still keeping them under his Scott Free banner) to guys like Noah Hawley and Fede Álvarez, but in the case of the upcoming Blade Runner 2099 series, there are rumors circulating that he actually intends to direct some episodes of that one.
I'm glad he didn't tbh. Since for me the last film Ridley did, that unquestionably has about the same quality as
2049 is actually
Blade Runner.
Either way I'm glad he got to do Covenant, to see Ridley visit the Alien universe one last time. Gonna miss his crazy ideas.
Quote from: Evanus on Mar 20, 2022, 03:07:47 PM
Either way I'm glad he got to do Covenant, to see Ridley visit the Alien universe one last time. Gonna miss his crazy ideas.
Hear, hear.
I just
really wishing we could have gotten one more stab at it from him before, before eventually handing the franchise off to a myriad of other filmmakers to put their own spins on it again as is happening now.
I do hope that,
Covenant sequel aside, Ridley does have at least one more sci-fi project in him. I've been loving how hands-on he's been with the design elements of
Raised By Wolves, even though that one is full-on Aaron Guzikowski's baby. I'd also like to see him eventually get to do a Western but, I digress there...
Then David may be our very own Palpatine :laugh:
(https://i.ibb.co/JxhwdDQ/Emperor-Sidious.png)
However, and while I know that David can wear a space suit without needing it as we saw in
Prometheus, one thing that doesn't make sense with David ending up being the Space Jockey, is that we saw him piloting the ship without the Engineer suit. Not to mention how huge the original Jockey is of course. :P
(https://i.ibb.co/9tz1SQG/MV5-BMj-Ix-OTUx-ODA5-MV5-BMl5-Ban-Bn-Xk-Ft-ZTgw-NTMy-Mj-Qx-Mj-I-V1.jpg)
Quote from: Nukiemorph on Mar 20, 2022, 05:22:25 AMI recall Andrew Gaska saying he was going to privately tell Hicks and Ridgetop his theory as to where Ridley wanted to take it... I've been very curious if he thinks Ridley was planning on making David the jockey.
I used to think that
Raised By Wolves was what Ridley would have wanted
Covenant or even the sequel to be. There is even Jockey-like stuff amongst other Alien-like stuff including androids with milk blood. But the truth is that he only directed a couple of episodes. :-\
On the other hand, it would be great if Corporal and the Staff address Andrew Gaska's theory about it vía podcast. 8)
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Mar 20, 2022, 05:15:40 PM
However, and while I know that David can wear a space suit without needing it as we saw in Prometheus, one thing that doesn't make sense with David ending up being the Space Jockey, is that we saw him piloting the ship without the Engineer suit. Not to mention how huge the original Jockey is of course. :P
Hey, that black goo and rewrite/restructure DNA (and bio-
mechanics) in a ton of unprecedented ways. ;)
Except that, he has it on his finger in Prometheus and it's completely inert, so no.
The concept of the pathogen morphing the synthetic is quite...
(https://s7.gifyu.com/images/wbvqzvb.gif)
(https://s7.gifyu.com/images/giphy-875cdd2bec4f1c249.gif)
I guess it's all in the execution, but still. :laugh:
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 20, 2022, 03:15:43 PMI do hope that, Covenant sequel aside, Ridley does have at least one more sci-fi project in him. I've been loving how hands-on he's been with the design elements of Raised By Wolves, even though that one is full-on Aaron Guzikowski's baby. I'd also like to see him eventually get to do a Western but, I digress there...
Hear hear! I'm all for more Scott sci-fi 8)
Wasn't he producing a
Blade Runner series? Well Be that as it may, his sci-fi movies are so well shot and so beautiful. Says someone who wanted Giger-Land in the Alien prequels. Still, both films are visually stunning in different ways.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 20, 2022, 05:41:01 PM
Except that, he has it on his finger in Prometheus and it's completely inert, so no.
In its base form as seen in
Prometheus, for sure, but if the
Covenant sequel was indeed going to build up to the proper biomechanical Alien of the original film, I'd guess that somewhere along the line the Pathogen being able to react to/with synthetic beings would have been (re?)coded into it by David (and in his own hubris there, this would likely be the method of his own undoing).
No thanks honestly then.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 20, 2022, 05:41:01 PM
Except that, he has it on his finger in Prometheus and it's completely inert, so no.
However...
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/aTKED2l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2mb5jDx.jpg)
Oh God... Some day I'm going to be brave and read those Fire and Stone/Life and Death comics.
Some day.
Not any time soon, mind you, but some day.
That Biontech or Johnson?
Quote from: Kradan on Mar 20, 2022, 07:36:40 AM
WHAT does it tell me ? That he looks BADASS ?
That he's established through the story as the trainee Sith, yet is shown to be more than a match for a single Jedi. That he uses an impractical weapon, as dangerous to the wielder as the target, but has mastered it totally. That even with all that power, the dark side is corrupting him (rotting teeth). What exactly do you need beyond that for a throwaway villain in a children's movie?
I'm torn on my opinions towards a third prequel. I didn't really like the direction they went with in Covenant, though I loved Prometheus (I know that automatically means some people will disregard my opinion because of my taste, but also my favourite version is the fanedited workprint and/or chaos edition, so make of that what you will).
I didn't like the concept that David created the alien, so I'm not sure I'd want to see a film that leant even further in that direction. I also disliked the changes to the alien biology, and how easily (comparatively) they were disposed of (though I know that can be put down to being an early model, so to speak).
At the same time, it does feel like the second part of a trilogy, and that we're missing the end of the story. It feels unfinished, and I can't help but think that unless the TV show connects to it, somehow, it will remain unfinished.
Rotting teeth ? :D
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 20, 2022, 08:05:20 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 20, 2022, 05:41:01 PM
Except that, he has it on his finger in Prometheus and it's completely inert, so no.
However...
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/aTKED2l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2mb5jDx.jpg)
I loved Elden, but I wish the writers had had their story straight with what Elden actually was. IIRC there's implications he's not a typical synthetic, and the writers all seemed to have different intentions, with some thinking he was just a straight synthetic. I dunno. That first series was same level Prometheus frustrations for me where they didn't actually know what they were doing.
I thought it would be interesting if they combined an Alien 5 with Ripley 8 and the covenant sequel.
Vague idea, I once started writing a fan screenplay but stopped:
Ripley 8, over taken by memories from the original Ripley, decides go to where she believes is the Alien homeworld, she ends up finding a very old David there.
Even though I'm not crazy about David creating them, figure we could kill two birds with one stone.
It's an unpopular opinion, but the return of Ripley 8 is probably the only way I'd want to see Sigourney Weaver return to Alien at this point. Do something really gross and f**ked up (and horny) with the character.
(https://i.imgur.com/3RPP3mR.jpg)
:o Where did you find that beauty ?
:-*
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 21, 2022, 03:19:31 PM
It's an unpopular opinion, but the return of Ripley 8 is probably the only way I'd want to see Sigourney Weaver return to Alien at this point. Do something really gross and f**ked up (and horny) with the character.
Let's throw in time travel (why not). And Ripley 8 f**ks David. They have children, SOMEHOW, that are the first engineers.
Quote from: NoStyleDutch on Mar 21, 2022, 04:21:36 PM
And Ripley 8 f**ks David. They have children, SOMEHOW
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YqaeISdIB-Y/maxresdefault.jpg)
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-16-2019/8Fac9c.gif)
This franchise badly needs Sarah Kerrigan (Queen of Blade) to get back to what it was before. :-*
Quote from: NoStyleDutch on Mar 21, 2022, 03:05:45 PM
I thought it would be interesting if they combined an Alien 5 with Ripley 8 and the covenant sequel.
Vague idea, I once started writing a fan screenplay but stopped:
Ripley 8, over taken by memories from the original Ripley, decides go to where she believes is the Alien homeworld, she ends up finding a very old David there.
Even though I'm not crazy about David creating them, figure we could kill two birds with one stone.
That's ridiculously better than David being the Space Jockey. :o
Lol thank you! And I think david is too good of a character, and Michael fassbender is too good of an actor, to waste!
Yeah, he is one of the best characters in the Alien series.
I hate him. I just can't get past him creating the alien and I hate the character for it. I hate him more than Fifield and I don't even want to see Fassbender's face anymore.
I know it's irrational, but there you go. David is basically the skull to me now. >:(
David being the Space Jockey is old news. David is now Big Chap, and it is his skull you can see in the Alien's head in that first film.
I can't wait to see Hicks' reaction to such idea. 🤭
(https://s1.gifyu.com/images/tenor-1.gif)
David uses Plagiarus Praepotens to mutate into a ribbed queen with human lips, and he lays the eggs on the derelict.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 22, 2022, 01:59:12 AM
I hate him. I just can't get past him creating the alien and I hate the character for it. I hate him more than Fifield and I don't even want to see Fassbender's face anymore.
I know it's irrational, but there you go. David is basically the skull to me now. >:(
Feel your anger, let the hate flow through you !
David has actually been in control of every Alien in the original movies through his creator connection.
(https://www.denofgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/prometheus.jpg)
That's David's head waking up. He's caught in a time loop, of course.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 22, 2022, 11:19:17 AM
(https://www.denofgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/prometheus.jpg)
That's David's head waking up. He's caught in a time loop, of course.
We need to get this into a script and over to Ridley! Stat!
There is only one way to properly resuscitate him!
(
Raised By Wolves Season Two spoilers within)
Spoiler
Quick, someone get the fuel blood!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFxAQePXwAETHl4?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 22, 2022, 11:52:43 AM
There is only one way to properly resuscitate him!
(Raised By Wolves Season Two spoilers within)
Spoiler
Quick, someone get the fuel blood!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFxAQePXwAETHl4?format=jpg&name=large)
Do Neanderthals need Milk? :laugh: ;)
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Mar 22, 2022, 03:20:40 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 22, 2022, 11:52:43 AM
There is only one way to properly resuscitate him!
(Raised By Wolves Season Two spoilers within)
Spoiler
Quick, someone get the fuel blood!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFxAQePXwAETHl4?format=jpg&name=large)
Do Neanderthals need Milk? :laugh: ;)
Spoiler
It stimulates biomechanical growth. ;)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 22, 2022, 01:59:12 AM
I hate him. I just can't get past him creating the alien and I hate the character for it. I hate him more than Fifield and I don't even want to see Fassbender's face anymore.
I know it's irrational, but there you go. David is basically the skull to me now. >:(
Im stilol convinced my theory is still the one disney will go with and what will be correct later on when the tv show is released.(if its not cancelled as some discuss in its thread.)
David merely made his own version of the Xenomorph hence the more biological design with msuchles and skinn etc and why its so much dumber. Due to him finding designs from the engineers and he reverse engineer it and also the black pathogen which is taken from the original xenomorph has a habit of trying to recreate its original form. The breed David made has a lot od design changes and differences to the normal xenomorph, which I discussed and shown earlier so wont go into it now.
PRometheus also showed they were around before, and with the tv show set prior to covenant, if they show one single xenomorph then it will confirm this and David didnt design them, but we have to wait and see. :P
So: Xenomorphs are around and David just made his own version of it is what I take from the covenant movie and the expanded EU and prometheus showed us.
Pretty sure disney will do the safest route so im pretty sure this will be the case, but we´ll see.
Quote from: judge death on Mar 22, 2022, 10:14:57 PM
Im stilol convinced my theory is still the one disney will go with and what will be correct later on when the tv show is released.(if its not cancelled as some discuss in its thread.)
David merely made his own version of the Xenomorph hence the more biological design with msuchles and skinn etc and why its so much dumber. Due to him finding designs from the engineers and he reverse engineer it and also the black pathogen which is taken from the original xenomorph has a habit of trying to recreate its original form. The breed David made has a lot od design changes and differences to the normal xenomorph, which I discussed and shown earlier so wont go into it now.
PRometheus also showed they were around before, and with the tv show set prior to covenant, if they show one single xenomorph then it will confirm this and David didnt design them, but we have to wait and see. :P
So: Xenomorphs are around and David just made his own version of it is what I take from the covenant movie and the expanded EU and prometheus showed us.
Pretty sure disney will do the safest route so im pretty sure this will be the case, but we´ll see.
I think we're going to see a retcon for sure, but it was supposed to be an evolution from less to more, where Giger's Alien could have returned in all glory and majesty in the sequel to
Covenant. So, David resequenced the original mutagen (the pathogen) to create a new mutagen called plagiarus linesters which is used to create the Praetomorphs. The mutagen used to create biomechanical Aliens is called plagiarus praepotens.
The black pathogen creates the Neomorphs, including the Deacon subspecies, and beyond our theories, the origin of the virus is unknown.
"The future is neither organic or synthetic - it's biomechanical"
(https://i.ibb.co/LkMbqmb/Pics-Art-03-22-11-21-44.jpg)
But things have changed, and now a TV series has been announced that chronologically speaking would be located closer to
Prometheus than
Alien. From here one could expect 2 possible things:
1 - They can contradict the prequels without making any direct reference. The Alien simply already existed.
2 - They can recontextualize the prequels, making direct references. I.e; these movies are still canon, it's just that David has recreated a lifeform that already existed.
On the other hand, Fede Alvarez's announced film would supposedly be a standalone movie that has nothing to do with any of the characters, locations and events of the entire Alien series.
There is a lot of skepticism about these projects, so only time will tell.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Mar 23, 2022, 03:16:02 AM
Quote from: judge death on Mar 22, 2022, 10:14:57 PM
Im stilol convinced my theory is still the one disney will go with and what will be correct later on when the tv show is released.(if its not cancelled as some discuss in its thread.)
David merely made his own version of the Xenomorph hence the more biological design with msuchles and skinn etc and why its so much dumber. Due to him finding designs from the engineers and he reverse engineer it and also the black pathogen which is taken from the original xenomorph has a habit of trying to recreate its original form. The breed David made has a lot od design changes and differences to the normal xenomorph, which I discussed and shown earlier so wont go into it now.
PRometheus also showed they were around before, and with the tv show set prior to covenant, if they show one single xenomorph then it will confirm this and David didnt design them, but we have to wait and see. :P
So: Xenomorphs are around and David just made his own version of it is what I take from the covenant movie and the expanded EU and prometheus showed us.
Pretty sure disney will do the safest route so im pretty sure this will be the case, but we´ll see.
I think we're going to see a retcon for sure, but it was supposed to be an evolution from less to more, where Giger's Alien could have returned in all glory and majesty in the sequel to Covenant. So, David resequenced the original mutagen (the pathogen) to create a new mutagen called plagiarus linesters which is used to create the Praetomorphs. The mutagen used to create biomechanical Aliens is called plagiarus praepotens.
The black pathogen creates the Neomorphs, including the Deacon subspecies, and beyond our theories, the origin of the virus is unknown.
"The future is neither organic or synthetic - it's biomechanical"
(https://i.ibb.co/LkMbqmb/Pics-Art-03-22-11-21-44.jpg)
But things have changed, and now a TV series has been announced that chronologically speaking would be located closer to Prometheus than Alien. From here one could expect 2 possible things:
1 - They can contradict the prequels without making any direct reference. The Alien simply already existed.
2 - They can recontextualize the prequels, making direct references. I.e; these movies are still canon, it's just that David has recreated a lifeform that already existed.
On the other hand, Fede Alvarez's announced film would supposedly be a standalone movie that has nothing to do with any of the characters, locations and events of the entire Alien series.
There is a lot of skepticism about these projects, so only time will tell.
Well, just on the info we've been given so far, it seems that David
can't be the originator of the alien. If it's set before Prometheus, but features aliens, then he can't be the creator. Short of some time travel bullshit.
I'm still not so sure the producer was correct. I think it's definitely possible that he was prattling off a vague number and us fans are taking it more seriously than he did.
Him in a private conversation later:
"Yeah I told that interviewer it was about 70 years in the future... That's about when Covenant was, right? No? That was closer to 80 years? Oh whatever, close enough. Nerds."
Quote from: Nukiemorph on Mar 24, 2022, 12:14:42 AM
I'm still not so sure the producer was correct. I think it's definitely possible that he was prattling off a vague number and us fans are taking it more seriously than he did.
Him in a private conversation later:
"Yeah I told that interviewer it was about 70 years in the future... That's about when Covenant was, right? No? That was closer to 80 years? Oh whatever, close enough. Nerds."
Yep! I still remember when ppl were freaking out about John Davis' comments on Preys title and time period. And it turned out he was just saying things lol
"The future is neither organic or synthetic - it's biomechanical"
Well said reply there and can agree on it all. :) Curious, did you make that picture? I like its design and makes it point really well and have that scene from covenant inside it, clever. :D
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 22, 2022, 01:59:12 AM
I hate him. I just can't get past him creating the alien and I hate the character for it. I hate him more than Fifield and I don't even want to see Fassbender's face anymore.
I know it's irrational, but there you go. David is basically the skull to me now. >:(
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FakeCostlyHamadryas-size_restricted.gif)
Quote from: judge death on Mar 24, 2022, 02:41:07 AM
"The future is neither organic or synthetic - it's biomechanical"
Well said reply there and can agree on it all. :) Curious, did you make that picture? I like its design and makes it point really well and have that scene from covenant inside it, clever. :D
Yes, I edited that photo. It's Weyland's white room. ;D ;)
If you've been around in the fandom long enough the series getting retconned constantly is just part of being a fan broskis.
I still remember when people thought Alien 3 was going to be like the original comics that darkhorse put out lololol
Quote from: Kimarhi on Mar 26, 2022, 11:22:36 PM
I still remember when people thought Alien 3 was going to be like the original comics that darkhorse put out lololol
That teaser trailer sure didn't help.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Mar 27, 2022, 02:11:56 AM
That teaser trailer sure didn't help.
Still waiting to discover on Earth that everybody can hear you scream.
Imagine if they do a new rendition of that trailer for Noah Hawley's Series...
That egg almost looked like LV-426 :o *my first time*
Maybe Ridley could mske a film about Shaw traveling with another head?
Perhaps the drawings simply depict clones, and the real one got away, just a shower thought.
wut
I think it's more understandable now.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 01, 2022, 10:20:29 AM
I think it's more understandable now.
Not quite. Run that by me again, please? Can't put my finger on what you mean, sorry.
Shower thought: Elizabeth Shaw escaped at a point, basically what we see in Alien Covenant being David's clones of the good Doctor, hence the various drawings might be interpreted literally.
This might have happened during the deployment of the Pathogen, the ship awakened Shaw, who then confronted David causing the crash we see occurred.
The specifics do not particularly matter but basically I think there's enough wiggle room to bring Shaw back if you wanted to, the original, played by Noomi Rapace and it might be a nice inversion of Resurrection like so much of Covenant already mirrors.
Eh, I think the last thing the prequels need is even more nonsensical retcons.
I can think of a few the narrative might benefit from honestly.
1. David's not the creator.
2. The Space Jockey predates the Engineers.
3. Elizabeth Shaw's actually alive.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 01, 2022, 05:42:35 PM
I can think of a few the narrative might benefit from honestly.
1. David's not the creator.
2. The Space Jockey predates the Engineers.
3. Elizabeth Shaw's actually alive.
1 and 2 are benefits. Not so sure about 3.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 01, 2022, 05:42:35 PM
I can think of a few the narrative might benefit from honestly.
1. David's not the creator.
2. The Space Jockey predates the Engineers.
Both of those are theoretical retcons to fix the aforementioned preexisting nonsensical retcons. If they keep on adding more and more retcons, it'll just end up getting increasingly messy (see the Star Wars sequel trilogy).
Shaw is dead, we saw her dissected corpse on a table, end of story. Deal with it, get over it. And keep that "Shaw clones" bullshit outta here, it ain't Star Wars and she ain't Jango Fett
I just felt Noomi Rapace and Michael Fassbender worked great together on-screen, and that's unlikely to be replicated, with anyone else putting an end to his various machinations you have to do a lot more to earn it.
And I also really like the angle of the idea of the character confronting their horrific children that he created, and perhaps a comeuppance for the way he violated both Charlie Holloway and her, I feel like there's a weird f**ked up story there.
One I'd love to see personally.
Maybe I just desperately wanna see Noomi explore space and existentialism with a android's head in a bag.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 01, 2022, 06:04:02 PM
Maybe I just desperately wanna see Noomi explore space and existentialism with a android's head in a bag.
You do. Just as many wanted further adventures of Ix and Noot
I guess, but I felt their deaths were considerably more concrete, because after Alien Covenant's release there was an expressed want of a novel set prior to the film about them, I think there was even mention at some point that was the idea for the next produced film.
Well, I don't think people will be against a story set in between Pro and Cov exploring David and Shaw on Planet 4. I myself would be up for story showing David's descent into madness and Shaw's slow and horrific realisation of what's going on
Then give me that. Yes please. Although nothing requires it be set on Planet 4 either, you just have to get there by the end of a huge ten year time gap.
https://twitter.com/newscientist/status/1509599345255100417
Looks like the
Covenant sequel is just going to play out in the real world instead of on screen, then.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/f3/59/4af359da768560f9d7f5252d969c7c06.gif)
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 01, 2022, 06:15:45 PM
Well, I don't think people will be against a story set in between Pro and Cov exploring David and Shaw on Planet 4. I myself would be up for story showing David's descent into madness and Shaw's slow and horrific realisation of what's going on
10 years in paradise. Shaw is alive. David is going crazy. The ruins of the Engineers. Mad Scientist den. That should have been the true sequel to
Prometheus. A psychological / existential horror movie with elements of gothic fiction.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 01, 2022, 06:04:02 PM
I just felt Noomi Rapace and Michael Fassbender worked great together on-screen, and that's unlikely to be replicated, with anyone else putting an end to his various machinations you have to do a lot more to earn it.
And I also really like the angle of the idea of the character confronting their horrific children that he created, and perhaps a comeuppance for the way he violated both Charlie Holloway and her, I feel like there's a weird f**ked up story there.
One I'd love to see personally.
Maybe I just desperately wanna see Noomi explore space and existentialism with a android's head in a bag.
I see where you're coming from, and I can understand why you'd want that, but I think the best thing would be a final prequel story, mostly wrapping things up.
Bringing in Shaw clones and stuff would likely make audiences lose their suspense of disbelief, and having an interquel would still leave us with an unfinished story.
Maybe as a comic it could work.
An interquel could conclude the story, in a roundabout way, as Shaw so eloquently put it "Then who made them?'
If it's about them finding that, the real Space Jockey race as it were, that created the Alien- the original.
You can chalk up David's creation and version of events, as him mimicking unknowingly as he loses his memory and his mind, perhaps he and Shaw even parted (when Doctor Shaw died) on amicable terms and the loneliness drove him to what he did.
You can pretty much tell any story that you want.
Nobody cares what happened to David I certainly do not, he can float off "into infinity for infinity" as Ridley Scott said, but I think you can use his story as a vehicle to make the universe even more horrifically enigmatic than it was in 1979.
You could even have the in between idea be the end of the prequel narrative, in the sense of backing up into the end of the original Alien film, and have the Covenant itself just return empty to the galaxy post Resurrection as a way of returning the Alien to the known universe.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 02, 2022, 11:48:44 PM
An interquel could conclude the story, in a roundabout way, as Shaw so eloquently put it "Then who made them?'
If it's about them finding that, the real Space Jockey race as it were, that created the Alien- the original.
You can chalk up David's creation and version of events, as him mimicking unknowingly as he loses his memory and his mind, perhaps he and Shaw even parted (when Doctor Shaw died) on amicable terms and the loneliness drove him to what he did.
You can pretty much tell any story that you want.
Nobody cares what happened to David I certainly do not, he can float off "into infinity for infinity" as Ridley Scott said, but I think you can use his story as a vehicle to make the universe even more horrifically enigmatic than it was in 1979.
You could even have the in between idea be the end of the prequel narrative, in the sense of backing up into the end of the original Alien film, and have the Covenant itself just return empty to the galaxy post Resurrection as a way of returning the Alien to the known universe.
That question could be the basis of a whole story.
(https://i.ibb.co/K26MmN9/Pics-Art-04-03-11-30-18.jpg)
On the one hand, it allows you to:
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Expand the universe:, which shrinks a bit with the direction
Covenant took. So a truly Alien entity might be the creator of a world crawling with strange and mysterious ancient humans, capable of space travel thanks to now lost technology. With that in mind, the Engineers might become an advanced prehistoric human civilization, whose members were more intelligent, taller and stronger than modern humans.
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Return to cosmic / existential horror: Dr. Shaw spiritual ideals may be naught but cruel illusions, in a dark and gritty universe where we are not even God's creation at all. We are the creations of the fallen angels instead. Once god's favourites, now banished to their fate.
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The Alien might be ancient lost technology: The battle between organic and artificial life, seems to reach its climax when David allegedly creates what he calls 'the perfect organism', both as a destroyer and as a replacement for humanity. But perhaps it was discovered by the Engineers thousands (or even millions) of years after its creation. The Space Jockey as a separate entity from ancient humans may have something to say about it. Plus the Black Pathogen may be an attemp by the Engineers of weaponise Giger's Alien, wich it's also a Jockey creation.
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Shaw Deserves a Better Ending: Shaw is the only character with development and potential of
Prometheus, apart from David. I want to see this on screen, but that Covenant prequel novel was a missed opportunity to exploit the relationship between Shaw and David.
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We can have Both: The interquel not only allows us to learn from the interesting aspects of the prequels, but also the story could be in a way the closing of David's arc. There could even be a post credit scene. David's fate could remain a mystery. We just need to know the Alien is ancient, and how his relationship with Shaw may or may not have influenced his madness.
And on the other hand is better than Journey to Origae-6. 8)
Excellent post.