A Neill Blomkamp Alien could be a recipe for disappointment - Great article!

Started by CainsSon, Mar 05, 2015, 06:40:19 AM

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A Neill Blomkamp Alien could be a recipe for disappointment - Great article! (Read 5,513 times)

CainsSon

CainsSon

This article is brilliant, very well written and it perfectly sums up all the problems with the entire mentality of this culture we exist within today.

http://www.avclub.com/article/neill-blomkamp-alien-could-be-recipe-disappointmen-215856

This author drives the point home by focusing on the problem being fan-driven culture.
I am particularly drawn to this example he makes out of Ghostbusters/ Ghostbusters fans:

"It's like the culture that rejects the new, continuity-free, female-centric Ghostbusters in favor of the faintest, decades-old, Dan Aykroyd-related flames of hope for a Ghostbusters III. Of course, some—really, most—of those reactions were driven by old-fashioned sexist idiocy. (Sure, we wanted to indulge our childhood obsession—but not if there's gonna be girls there making it all girly!) But these reactions actually manage to seem even stupider considering how much virtual ink had been enthusiastically spilled over the possibility of a third Ghostbusters movie before Sony announced the distaff version. I'm not wildly excited over the possibility of this Ghostbusters movie, only because I think the talent involved could find something better to do with their time. But what do the now-disappointed Ghostbusters III faithful actually want? A sequel that uses the original cast members—even though one is now dead and another seems wholly uninterested—but somehow isn't (as bad as) Ghostbusters II?"

And my question in lew of all this is simple: Why retcon, when the odds of the retcon doing any real justice are slim to none?
At the end of the day, how can Ripley in an Alien suit be any less ridiculous than her being crossbred with an Alien in A:R?

And if and when she flies the Derelict back in time and crashes on LV426 thus becoming the space jockey, and making a time loop - will you sing praises for its bold take? Or curse the powers that be, while simultaneously pleading for Fox to give Hicks a spin off to make everything good again?

The way out is always through. Here's hoping Blomkamp is as self aware as he seems.

ash9426

Yeah, for us it could be a disappointment  ;D But I just realised that for Blomkamp this is a win/win situation.

Even if he makes a crappy movie it's still part of the legendary series. And his name is right there in the hall of fame: Scott, Cameron, Fincher, Jeunet, Blomkamp. And all of us will buy his movie, because let's face it, a new Pentalogy 4K Blu-ray is coming soon ;)

oduodu

will they tell blomkamp what to do like they did in alien 3 with david fincher ???

Close Encounters

Eh. The article makes a few good points, but paints the picture as if most fans are this way, which I heartily disagree. I think it's just the loudest ones. When you go through the comments of the internet world and pick out the good ones, you'll find some very well-reasoned arguments for their dislike of certain films. It's pretty easy to tell which is which. And frankly, the studio only listening to itself is was got us Alien 3. So I'd go with listening to the fans more often than not, even if you decide not to do what they say they want you to do. The Ghostbusters 3 people have decided not to listen to the fans who are telling them what they're doing is a bad idea. Frankly, I think this will come back to haunt them.

I do agree with the main point the writer was making though, which was that enthusiasm and hype should be separated from one's expectations of a movie, which I agree with completely. Afterall, if you expect the world from a movie, you will always be disappointed. Some of my favorite movies have been the ones I saw with no expectations whatsoever. When you walk into a movie with little to no preconceptions, it can blow you away. Those are truly the best times to be a movie fan.

LastSurvivor92

Quote from: oduodu on Mar 05, 2015, 08:05:13 AM
will they tell blomkamp what to do like they did in alien 3 with david fincher ???

If Blomkamp doesn't take the initiative to have a clear, cut and dry vision for the film and is stern about how he wants to make it Fox I'm sure would kind of make some decisions for him. Fox are all bullies over there. Hard to work with execs who demand anything that will give them a huge box office success.

Blomkamp has made 2 incredible sci-fi films. District 9 and Elysium. Both were highly successful. Considering that, I'm sure Fox won't intervene too much at all with Blomkamps vision.

Back in '92 when Alien 3 was rolling around the studio was depending on Alien 3 to make them money and to keep the studio going. Thats why there was so much pressure behind Fincher given by the studio to make Alien 3 another "Alien" or "Aliens" so they could have success.

The studio since than after 23 years have changed a lot and I'm sure they don't need to depend on a certain film nowadays to make money. They have produced so many successful franchises since than.

So in the end I'm sure Blomkamp will have a lot of creative freedom.


CainsSon

Quote from: Close Encounters on Mar 05, 2015, 03:02:04 PM
Eh. The article makes a few good points, but paints the picture as if most fans are this way, which I heartily disagree. I think it's just the loudest ones. When you go through the comments of the internet world and pick out the good ones, you'll find some very well-reasoned arguments for their dislike of certain films. It's pretty easy to tell which is which. And frankly, the studio only listening to itself is was got us Alien 3. So I'd go with listening to the fans more often than not, even if you decide not to do what they say they want you to do. The Ghostbusters 3 people have decided not to listen to the fans who are telling them what they're doing is a bad idea. Frankly, I think this will come back to haunt them.

I do agree with the main point the writer was making though, which was that enthusiasm and hype should be separated from one's expectations of a movie, which I agree with completely. Afterall, if you expect the world from a movie, you will always be disappointed. Some of my favorite movies have been the ones I saw with no expectations whatsoever. When you walk into a movie with little to no preconceptions, it can blow you away. Those are truly the best times to be a movie fan.

I think the overall take-home is that fans do not use enough reason, to temper their expectations for new sequels, and worse-so they fully expect that there is some magical way to rectify things after ships have already sailed. I was trying to put it this eloquently, and this author does much better than I have.
You simply cannot expect every sequel in a series, especially one that began with films as universally enchanted with perfection as Alien and Aliens, to magically be wisked back into shape because someone goes back and does what they wished had been done before.
I consider myself one of the select few who recognize that trying to follow Aliens with a film that doesn't disappoint is hard, now, before or without retcon and I will bet any amount of money people hate this for x, y and z reasons, that in the end will only be added to the pile ontop of it being a retcon that doesn't do what people wanted.
This isn't me trashing the film because in the end, I will be the type of fan who can appreciate it for what it is nd always have been, and that's precisely why at this point, I know to say, it shouldn't even happen as a retcon because fans will feel the same way about it, if it wasn't one. In fact, I've said this before, its more likely to be considered an improvement on things if it isn't than it is to be considered a better follow up to Alien 3 that ties into Prometheus.

Ash 937

The only thing that Blomkamp needs to do, really, is make a film that is better than Alien3.  On the good side, Alien3 is not a great film.  On the bad side, no film in the Alien franchise has topped Alien3 since it was released (including Prometheus imo). 

SpreadEagleBeagle

Quote from: Ash 937 on Mar 05, 2015, 09:44:03 PM
The only thing that Blomkamp needs to do, really, is make a film that is better than Alien3.  On the good side, Alien3 is not a great film.  On the bad side, no film in the Alien franchise has topped Alien3 since it was released (including Prometheus imo).

"Only" thing he needs to do? Good luck Blomkamp! He should lower his bar to ALIENS - that's more his style of movie making - great effects, concepts and designs. Narratives, dialogue, characters, underlying commentaries and themes are things that he doesn't handle that well at all. He's very blunt, but just like Cameron his on-screen handiwork and eye for detail seem to make up for those flaws apparently...

Infected

District 9 wasnt that good and Elysium wasnt much worse.

Dont know how long Blomkap is working on this alien stuff, could be epic but could also be "not so good"

NetworkATTH

I don't think anyone posting with artistic credential opinion on film here is educated in the art of film. Aliens, in terms of film, is a superior movie to Alien 3. Alien 3 is a visually powerful movie, with the bare minimum plot to get away with its stunning motifs, themes, and visuals, and uses it themes as a justification for its troubled plot. Even the Appendix Cut, as much as I love it, has serious glaring flaws.

Aliens is hardly a dumb movie. Or to imply that it's made by dumb people. Or to imply the film is artless. The logistics required that were in order for that film to work, is always astounding. If you complain about Blomkamp's focus on visuals, how could you not apply the same criticism to Alien 3. Alien 3, relies almost entirely on its visuals and execution. It almost gets away with it because its so purposefully melodramatic. You also forget that Fincher originally signed up on the idea of what Blomkamp was doing, ditching the Ward script entirely. Though Ward's script kept the structure of the film.

Fincher wanted to make the film, Neil is making right now. He wanted to make a sequel to Aliens. He's said as much in interviews.

Aliens was a technical film that paralleled the technical nature of Alien. Blomkamp is a highly technical director, and loves that reflected in his films, the technical nature of things, in a more exaggerated Sci-Fi way of course.

Could it be dissapointing is entirely how you look at a talented someone who probably doesn't want to f**k this up.

RakaiThwei

A sobering article. A very sobering one.

To be truthful, I.. couldn't care much about another movie. I mean the only thing which I am happy is that it's an alternative route but.. Wow.. Wikipedia and everyone and their Mom out there is saying that this is erasing Alien 3 and Resurrection. Even some random Dudebro at Barnes and Noble even said this, and I overheard him talking with another Dudebro as they were looking at comics.

Vrastal

The problem i have with all female ghostbusters is some of the possible choices thats all.


RakaiThwei

Anoter thing which the article made a good point on is that Geekdom as a whole has become an Anti Continuity-Free culture to where reboots and remakes are more or less no longer tolerated, and now retcons and sequels are the must. Truth be told, I would prefer a stand-alone or a reboot of the franchise but.. it's an unpopular opinion but the article makes it's point across to where when fans start calling the shots, even at a professional level... it's a little discerning.

CainsSon

CainsSon

#14
Quote from: NetworkATTH on Mar 05, 2015, 10:34:58 PM
I don't think anyone posting with artistic credential opinion on film here is educated in the art of film. Aliens, in terms of film, is a superior movie to Alien 3. Alien 3 is a visually powerful movie, with the bare minimum plot to get away with its stunning motifs, themes, and visuals, and uses it themes as a justification for its troubled plot. Even the Appendix Cut, as much as I love it, has serious glaring flaws.

Aliens is hardly a dumb movie. Or to imply that it's made by dumb people. Or to imply the film is artless. The logistics required that were in order for that film to work, is always astounding. If you complain about Blomkamp's focus on visuals, how could you not apply the same criticism to Alien 3. Alien 3, relies almost entirely on its visuals and execution. It almost gets away with it because its so purposefully melodramatic. You also forget that Fincher originally signed up on the idea of what Blomkamp was doing, ditching the Ward script entirely. Though Ward's script kept the structure of the film.

Fincher wanted to make the film, Neil is making right now. He wanted to make a sequel to Aliens. He's said as much in interviews.

Aliens was a technical film that paralleled the technical nature of Alien. Blomkamp is a highly technical director, and loves that reflected in his films, the technical nature of things, in a more exaggerated Sci-Fi way of course.

Could it be dissapointing is entirely how you look at a talented someone who probably doesn't want to f**k this up.

I'm not at this to toot my own horn, but I am very schooled in film-making. I have a resume 3 pages long, having worked in the business for years. I've done a little of everything, including technical directing professionally. I have a degree in filmmaking, I have taught classes on it. I just signed on as 3rdAD on a feature shooting here in NYC in 3 weeks. Now, if only I had been wise enough to raise some dough for a film of my own, instead of being an arty snob and making whatever I wanted for all these years... I may be doing what Blomkamp is doing now. You see, the more I read his comments the more I see a kindred spirit in him, and I would not slight him for being a fan and doing what he wants. Though, I will be very surprised if his film does indeed completely wipe Alien 3 out of canon for this very reason. I can't wrap my head around someone like him making such an non-integral decision and so, I still think he has some trick up his sleeve. Also with Ridley Scott producing... it may involve the mythology in Prometheus. I would expect it does not contradict it, whatsoever.

So it's really not about his personal desires to return to something, even my instincts would have done differently. If I were writing Alien 3, it would not have been ANYTHING like what it is now. I can say that without question, and I think the author of this article would be suprised to hear Blomkamp say the things he is saying. For instance, I'm very glad he is saying he doesn't care what the fan community wants, and that he is approaching the film as an artist, with the singular exception of feeling like an artist would appreciate Alien 3 MORE than it's predecessors.  So despite liking these comments from him, I believe he contradicts himself, in this latest IGN interview especially. One the one hand, he seems poised to do something interesting, especially when I consider his concept art, like the idea of tie-ing in some of the ideas in Prometheus to the end of Ripley's story, and have heard interesting comments from Sigourney. But on the other hand I think he IS making the mistake this article is calling him out on - which is, trying to make the film he wanted to see 20 years ago without considering that the reason he didn't get it in the first place, wasn't something as simple as just having the right sensibility. Look at the talent involved with that film. Many of which were involved in the production of the previous films, including the lead, who helped to shape it out of a ditch, who is also NOW shaping this. Development Hell, for ALIEN 3 didn't happen for lack of trying the wrong people. Yes, some things, like trying to make a release date, instead of organically raising pre-production - are NO DOUBT on Blomkamp's side this time, and I think that speaks miles for this. But overall, I am thinking, just from what I see in his concept art, that what you see is already not miles away from things fans didn't like in Prometheus and Ressurection and that's because to make the series grow, it also has to get away from what it was before and just throwing Hicks into the mix and saying "See. This is what we always wanted to see but never did!" and naively expecting it to be something-like the first two is really foolish because we will likely just end up with the same unsatisfied fan base. At least Blomkamp is trying to satisfy himself.

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