Pietro Scalia Talks Editing Alien: Covenant

Started by Corporal Hicks, Jun 28, 2017, 09:42:47 PM

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Pietro Scalia Talks Editing Alien: Covenant (Read 29,600 times)

newagescamartist

Quote from: CainsSon on Jul 01, 2017, 08:20:44 PM
Quote from: Protozoid on Jul 01, 2017, 02:33:03 AM
I don't hate Ridley Scott or Pietro Scalia, but they do sometimes frustrate me. Scott would be the first person to admit that he sometimes cuts too much footage from his movies, and Scalia frequently mentions wanting movies to be under two hours. When that harms the final product, the blame will inevitably be placed at their feet where it belongs.

Look. This is unfair. It doesn't belong at their feet that an R-rated film needs to be 2 hours. Ridley is actually looking out for the fans, trying to make sure the film warrants a sequel. If anything you should place blame at the feet of the monopoly of Multiplexes, which have such a vast overhead, they cant make any money unless a film is rated PG13. Many of you dont remember a time when Multiplexes didnt exist. The really took over in the late 90s.
It also doesnt belong at their feet when Fox wants this or that cut. They are contractually obligated to deliver a marketable product for the studio, and the studio has a lot of say in what is in or changed all along. In fact, Covenant and Prometheus took a great deal of risks in their story for franchise films like this. Like David and Walter kissing for instance, and abortion med pod scenes. We owe those types of things to Scott's playing ball with the studio, in areas like these. They trust him because he knows what has to be done.
Furthermore, if there are issues with the runtime its not with the editing, its with the script. A 2-hour script should turn in at around 120 pages. IE Approx 1 page per minute. But a director and an editor can slow the pace down here or there to make things play better. This is why some acts are playing better than others in Covenant and Prometheus. Its in the JOB DESCRIPTION of an editor to make the best R-Rated film he can with the material that was shot, while not messing with the script too much (without approval from the studio, NOT just Scott) while making that come in at the 2 hour mark. These are the kinds of stipulations placed on R-rated films, and they are made by the constraints of the film industry. Any exception to that rule is just an exception proving the rule.
If anything, what you should be thinking is: Make the screenwriters turn in something around 100 pages so the editor and director can slow it down and flesh it out. As an example of this at work - 'ALIEN' for instance is 112 pages. The film is a bit over 2 hours. That extra 8 or so pages are minutes Ridley being allowed to burn slowly in the runtime. It builds tension. Prometheus was 116 pages I believe, and I would argue that like this film, Ridley likes to slow burn some stuff. Meaning, that what normally amounts to 1 minute is 1 page, but Ridley likes to crawl, build tension... He is making some things written as a single page amount to longer than 1 min of screentime, and thats how we end up with something like the first Act of Covenant being longer and better than the rest of the film, because it takes over an hour in Covenant to get to Act 2, and to move along then they have no time to play with the last 2 acts. You see? Act 1 is 1 hour, and its better, but then they have 1 hour left to blow through the next 2 acts.
So if anything: the script needs to be shorter.
Aaaaand
This actually highlights what I think the major difference b/w Alien and its Prequels is, and why the run time is a problem for them. Because they are telling more complicated stories. Unlike Alien, which is very minimal and it can take its time. Prometheus and Covenant have alot more ground to cover in the same runtime.
This is why the scripts need to be shorter.

R rated movies have never been as profitable as PG-13 and below or at least that I'm aware of. If Prometheus and Covenant aren't what Ridley envisioned ( and I've seen no indication that either film wasn't to his liking ) then I think a fair compromise is releasing a director's cut/extended edition on DVD. I highly doubt we get director cuts of either film anytime soon because Ridley seems very happy with the cuts. You said it yourself, the stories in the prequels are much more complex so making the the scripts even shorter would hurt imo. People are already upset at the pacing in both movies, rushing through the acts that do work would make the films even more prone to criticism. I think it's fair to say that most fans would be perfectly fine with a 3 hour film if it works. I'm not sure what the problem was with Covenant's domestic take, but I'm very happy with how the film turned out overall. I think editing was good overall, especially in the middle section of the movie.

SiL

QuoteALIEN' for instance is 112 pages. The film is a bit over 2 hours.
The film is under two hours - 116 minutes.

QuoteHe is making some things written as a single page amount to longer than 1 min of screentime,
Every director does this. It also depends on whether the page is action heavy or dialogue heavy. One minute per page is an average across the whole script, not a page by page consideration.

Quoteand thats how we end up with something like the first Act of Covenant being longer and better than the rest of the film, because it takes over an hour in Covenant to get to Act 2, and to move along then they have no time to play with the last 2 acts. You see? Act 1 is 1 hour, and its better, but then they have 1 hour left to blow through the next 2 acts.
Act 2 starts when they land on the planet. The second act is always the longest in the film and Covenant is no exception here.

Highland

Highland

#137
If they stuck to one Alien (or no Aliens) the movie would have had plenty time to tell it's story. The reveal of the first ever Alien should have been more grand than David throwing rocks off Orams bonce. I would have liked the final movie to introduce the Alien.

I think it really shows through that there was never a plan with any of this.

newagescamartist

Quote from: Highland on Jul 01, 2017, 11:36:53 PM
If they stuck to one Alien (or no Aliens) the movie would have had plenty time to tell it's story. The reveal of the first ever Alien should have been more grand than David throwing rocks off Orams bonce. I would have liked the final movie to introduce the Alien.

I think it really shows through that there was never a plan with any of this.

If I had one problem with Covenant, it's this. I would have actually preferred Alien being the first glimpse of the monster. Neomorphs and deacons would have been fine monsters to cover the runtime in Covenant.

Highland

Quote from: newagescamartist on Jul 02, 2017, 12:57:46 AM
Quote from: Highland on Jul 01, 2017, 11:36:53 PM
If they stuck to one Alien (or no Aliens) the movie would have had plenty time to tell it's story. The reveal of the first ever Alien should have been more grand than David throwing rocks off Orams bonce. I would have liked the final movie to introduce the Alien.

I think it really shows through that there was never a plan with any of this.

If I had one problem with Covenant, it's this. I would have actually preferred Alien being the first glimpse of the monster. Neomorphs and deacons would have been fine monsters to cover the runtime in Covenant.

Not a bad idea either, a chest busted Jockey as the finale. I think the Neomorphs have been overwhelmingly received as a positive even by people who didn't like the film. If Scott had just stuck to his guns I think we could have got a truly scary film with just those as the stars of the show perhaps with some link back to the Deacon. You could have even kept the same ending with David putting the little facehuggers in the drawer. 

Perhaps Scott didn't want to take the risk that the prequels wouldn't get finished. Anyway you can drive yourself mad thinking about the possibilities. In the end he went for the Star Wars version - just make the same movie you did last time with slight differences.

Salt The Fries

Quote from: Highland on Jul 02, 2017, 06:30:57 AM
Quote from: newagescamartist on Jul 02, 2017, 12:57:46 AM
Quote from: Highland on Jul 01, 2017, 11:36:53 PM
If they stuck to one Alien (or no Aliens) the movie would have had plenty time to tell it's story. The reveal of the first ever Alien should have been more grand than David throwing rocks off Orams bonce. I would have liked the final movie to introduce the Alien.

I think it really shows through that there was never a plan with any of this.

If I had one problem with Covenant, it's this. I would have actually preferred Alien being the first glimpse of the monster. Neomorphs and deacons would have been fine monsters to cover the runtime in Covenant.

Not a bad idea either, a chest busted Jockey as the finale. I think the Neomorphs have been overwhelmingly received as a positive even by people who didn't like the film. If Scott had just stuck to his guns I think we could have got a truly scary film with just those as the stars of the show perhaps with some link back to the Deacon. You could have even kept the same ending with David putting the little facehuggers in the drawer. 

Perhaps Scott didn't want to take the risk that the prequels wouldn't get finished. Anyway you can drive yourself mad thinking about the possibilities. In the end he went for the Star Wars version - just make the same movie you did last time with slight differences.
It can be said that a lot of film-makers keep making the same film over and over again.


Mr. Clemens

I know I'm not the only one here who detected a certain 'this isn't Prometheus!' vibe coming from Fox in the lead-up to Covenant. Hell, just calling it Alien with a capital A set it apart from its predecessor. So I can imagine they had real cold feet about opening an Alien film with what was essentially a twelve minute epilogue to a film they were (marketing-wise, at least) trying to distance themselves from...

Huggs

"I think it really shows through that there was never a plan with any of this."


I've been leaning that way for awhile myself. Quality over quantity. Prometheus should've been the only prequel. They had the right looking planet, and a crashed juggernaut. Change the planet name and some of the characters/events, run it at a healthy 2 to 2.5 hour, lead straight into Alien 1979, and boom.

But it's a business, and it's the age of the "trilogy". That's the road they went down, and now they're lost in the back-country. The studio should have A.D.F. meet with ridley and discuss what was wanted for the third movie. Have Foster write the thing in all its glory. No budget issues, no time limits, no cut footage, no editing problems, no compromises. Then green light Alien 5 for 2019 and let's move on. Movies are a business, films are a product. But at it's core, it's still art, so limit yourself as little as possible. Which is why I say give this particular storyline to Foster. The man does with ink and paper what directors like Ridley and Cameron do with film. He's capable.

SpreadEagleBeagle

I would've cut the intro for sure (David & Weyland), as it makes the whole premise way too blatant. I also don't think that flashbacks belong in Alien movies as the original four movies are very much here-and-now. The audience get to fill possible gaps and such. With that said I would've definitely cut the Bombardment/Engineers scene for the same reasons as well as that whole sequence being way too absolute and demystifying. The flying crane/barge fight is another sequence I would've cut as it is so out of character and stupid. I also find the whole repair sequence of the solar panels superfluous and Hollywood-like. That whole ordeal could've been shortened and should've been from POV of the crew inside the ship rather than the suited up crew outside. Helmet cams, readings and the nervous reactions from the onboard crew would've been more than enough.

If available, I would've added (more scenes or extended scenes taking place in David's "home" (cabinet of horrors) and the Covenant crew's exploration of the Juggernaut. As the last act feels very thin I would've added whatever scenes or extended scenes material there is to flesh it out more. I would've definitely cut the music during the shower scene as it just made it feel really cheesy.

BishopShouldGo

Wow, you want to cut out my top four favorite scenes. The four most epic scenes.

Scorpio

Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Jul 07, 2017, 12:35:11 AM
Wow, you want to cut out my top four favorite scenes. The four most epic scenes.

I agree, especially the prologue.

Evanus

Yeah, I'd never cut those scenes out. They're pretty crucial if you ask me. I don't think I'd cut anything out if I could. Well, perhaps the Xenovision... Yeah definitely the Xenovision.

SpreadEagleBeagle

Really? Wow... I guess A:C really got us all quite divided.

I can see why people like the intro, and I appreciate it from a stand-alone point of view, and the same goes for the Bombardment scene - but they really don't fit in. Breaking with tradition so drastically by adding a bunch of flashback scenes just jive really badly with the the original four Alien movies. Like I said - something that I like with the original movies is that they are very much here-and-now, which enhances realism and lets the audience deal with the mysteries surrounding it all the best way they can.

Now, the flying barge/crane fight is pure shit and so moronic. Sorry, but I really can't see how anyone who love the original four movies would be ok with the cheap Matrix-wannabe Fast and the Furious fighting scene A:C threw in our faces. It was just plain dumb. Sorry, but that scene really don't fit in there. Even the AVP movies retracted from that kind of out of character super hero behavior (not counting the Predators of course- they're excused for obvious reasons).

Evanus

Yeah, the crane fight was kind of unnecessary. But the intro is really good. I think it's perfect for the film. It shows David's arrogance right after he's born, and how Weyland reacts to it. It's deeply connected to his actions later in the film. It's also great to see Guy Pearce as a younger Weyland, it justifies the use of makeup to make him look older in Prometheus. Also, the whole scene looks gorgeous. Great way to open the film, in my opinion. The bombardment scene does feel kind of out of place, I suppose - but it's still a beautiful scene, and the only scene with living engineers so I'd definitely keep it in. Same for any other flashbacks with Shaw, if there were any. Too bad they cut all those out.

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