The full interview:
http://filmophilia.com/2011/12/17/interview-ridley-scott-talks-prometheus-giger-beginning-of-man-and-original-alien/ (http://filmophilia.com/2011/12/17/interview-ridley-scott-talks-prometheus-giger-beginning-of-man-and-original-alien/)
Erlingur Grétar Einarsson: What [part of Prometheus] are you shooting in Iceland? What role in the film does it "play"?
Ridley Scott: It's, you know, whenever you're talking about science-fiction, it always sounds pretentious or corny. It's actually "The beginning of time". But I think we've got it right. (He laughs) So, it will be a pretty good beginning of time.
EGE: [The Prometheus' cast] is a very impressive line-up.
RS: Yeah, you know, we were staying with the notion that there were no stars in the first film [1979's Alien]. I think it was [Weaver's] first film. They were not stars.
EGE: Skerritt had some name recognition, maybe at the same level Fassbender is now.
RS: Yeah. I didn't make that as a plan, you know. Sometimes it's better when you have a story, where you're gonna lose people during the story, that they are lesser known. Of course, Charlize [Theron] is very well known, but she hangs around 'till the end. (He laughs)
EGE: So you are linking this directly with the Alien films?
RS: Not at all.
EGE: Not at all?
RS: No.
EGE: No?
RS: I mean, you could actually say, and there's a quote I did, a pretty good quote: By the end of the third act you start to realize there's a DNA of the very first alien, but none of the subsequent aliens. To tell you what that is is a pity, and I'm not going to tell you, because it's actually pretty good, pretty organic to the process and to the original. But we go back, we don't go forward.
EGE: The official synopsis from Fox says that this revolves around the "Alien Gods", the "Space Jockey" from the first film.
RS: Yeah, so there you have that. I was always amazed that, I mean, I've only done two science-fictions, but I was always amazed that no one asked who the hell the Space Jockey was. He wasn't even called the Space Jockey. During the film they started to call it the Space Jockey. I don't know who started that one off. I always thought it was amazing that no one ever asked who he was, and why was he there? What was all that about? I sat thinking about this for a while and thought, well, there's a story! And the other four [films] missed it! So, here it is.
EGE: Will you be using any of Giger's original design for this film?
RS: We've had a pretty good relationship with Giger for many years. I was the first one to go see him in Switzerland, and persuade him to get on a plane. He wouldn't get on a plane, because he was afraid of flying. And he finally came to Shepperton. He was with me for eleven months. Never went into town, stayed over a pub in Shepperton. Very non-Giger, not exotic. You'd think he'd be in a suite in a hotel. He's in a pub. He was in a room over a pub, and he was very happy there. And yeah, I brought him in, I showed him what we were doing, showed him the story and he liked it a lot. So he's doing a little bit of work for me. He's been doing some murals, big murals, which we'll see in almost one of the first chambers we encounter when we land where we're gonna go.
EGE: The tone of the film, according to the official synopsis, and the tone of the premise, sounds a lot more mythological than the original Alien films. The original Alien films revolved around industrial settings and premises and social situations rather than anything mythological.
RS: The original Alien was a pretty savage engine. I've always said it was a C-movie done in an A-way. Because it was the Old Dark House, you know. Seven people in the Old Dark House, and they're all going to die. (He laughs) And they're gonna die horribly and that in itself is a tricky exercise, because you can do it well, you can do it badly. But somehow that worked. It turned out pretty well.
I think one of the reasons why I've never gone back to science-fiction, even though I've often noodled around, thought about it, looked for story, looked for material, is that there's a nice purity to the original Alien. It's fairly pure. And this one does actually raise all kinds of other questions, because if someone could, a being, could be as monstrously clever to create something like we experienced in the very first one – I always figured it's a weapon, and I always figured that [the ship in the first Alien] was a carrier of weapons. Therefore, who is that, inside that suit? That wasn't a skeleton, that was a suit. And if you open up the suit, what do you get inside it? And why were they going, where were they going?
Also, I ring off of... there's a writer, Erich von Däniken. One of his most famous books was called Chariots of the Gods. Everyone thinks he was out of his mind, you know, for number one, "we are the creation of gods", if you go back to the 19th century anthropologists, Darwin, and say if you go look at Darwin for the moment and look at the Darwinian idea, the Darwinian thesis, which is seemingly very logical. You know, you're going from something that gradually comes to two legs and gradually here we are. Then you can go beyond that and you look more mathematically at the feasibility of how we're able to be sitting here, right now, in this place. I'm talking to you, and I've got this thing (he picks up his cellphone) which looks like Star Trek. This is "Beam me up, Scotty"-stuff. You wouldn't have believed this thing could exist thirty years ago.
[Editor's note: And here is where he really takes off:]
Things have changed so dramatically that you can start looking at the idea that all our history can be completely wrong and misguided. Because at some point someone has to put a statement down and have their own thesis, have their own theories. That was then later accepted or later is gradually dissolved and re-drawn or reworked. So now you've got the whole changed attitude with NASA, the church and I think even Hawking. Over the last thirty years have gone from "It's highly unlikely that there's anyone else in our galaxy, any other force, being in our galaxy," to now, where they're conceding that there are probably thousands of different lifeforms in this galaxy. And I think Hawking actually said, "Let's hope they don't visit." And I think the church has conceded as well that it would not be against the word of God if we conceded that there are other lifeforms in this galaxy.
So, if you take that out, then the door is open. To me, it's entirely logical. It's entirely ridiculous to believe that we are the only ones here. That's why my first thought is that for us to be sitting here right now is actually mathematically impossible without a lot of assistance. Who assisted? Who made the right decisions? Who was pushing and pulling to adjust us? That's a fair question.
EGE: Prometheus has the Brandywine production tag on it [a Production slate only used for Alien films since 1979] Do you feel any pressure going back to that world?
RS: No. Not at all, really. I had a good time making it. They gave me an opportunity to make it. I'd only done The Duellists at that point which was actually a pretty good film. Then someone had bizarrely seen it at Cannes and thought, "I wonder if he wants to do science-fiction," which couldn't be more different. I read it and thought, "Wow! This is fantastic," because at that moment I was engaged in a lot of, I was reading a lot Jean Giraud's "Moebius" stuff. The great French illustrator, beyond everything. I'd been looking at him just with the view to, you know, one day I wanted to do science-fiction. I'd seen Stanley Kubrick's 2001 and that for me was certainly a door opening. You go, "Wow, that works," and what am I gonna do?
So, I happened to be looking at Moebius' stuff, just out of interest, because I'm a really... I can really draw and paint. I was really influenced by what I saw, but didn't know where to apply it. When I read the Alien script, I just saw Moebius all the way, and I said, "I'll do it! I know how to do it!" I was in Hollywood, and we sat for 22 hours straight. "Do you want to change it?" – "Nope." – "What do you want to do?" – "Shoot it." That was it. Bingo. People were saying, "Let's rewrite the third act, that is a disaster." I said, "I'll do it." Once you're doing it, you can adjust it.
EGE: Do you see Noomi [Rapace] as something of a successor to Sigourney?
RS: Yeah, I mean, they're quite different women. Sigourney, to start with, is 6'1'' in stocking feet, and Noomi insists that she is 5'1'' in stocking feet. (He laughs) I look at a lot of foreign movies, and unfortunately a lot of mainstream movies aren't terribly good. You know. (He laughs)
The most influential for me are the new ones around the corner, and I look at a lot of foreign films and a lot of Scandinavian films. The Scandinavians have a very good touch for making movies, you guys (Icelanders) as well. I saw Dragon Tattoo a year ago, the first one. And, "Wow, who is that?" and from that I said, "This is the girl that's going to do the film." She came to L.A. and I met with her, and discovered in fact extraordinarily posh, as opposed to punk. So there was a real actress. A real actress, very, very good. So, I don't know, she will just do great.
EGE: She has this same fire that Sigourney brought, as well.
RS: I would say that Noomi's even more volatile and passionate. And sure, she looks good. But the combination of that and intelligence is a great combination.
EGE: Final question. I have a feeling what the answer will be, but many want to know. Will we see the original xenomorph in Prometheus?
RS: No. Absolutely not. They squeezed it dry. He (the xenomorph) did very well. (He laughs) He survived, he's now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!
Quote from: Darkoo on Dec 17, 2011, 02:26:48 PM
EGE: Final question. I have a feeling what the answer will be, but many want to know. Will we see the original xenomorph in Prometheus?
RS: No. Absolutely not. They squeezed it dry. He (the xenomorph) did very well. (He laughs) He survived, he's now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!
Well I guess that's as much confirmation as you can get. If you want to see the xenomorph again, you'll just have to go to Disneyland because you won't find it in
Prometheus.
Thanks for posting. :)
Of course.. he could be lying ;) Certainly not the first director to lie to save a surprise or two in a film. We'll find out the truth eventually...
Spoiler
Michael Bay blatantly lying about Soundwave not being the mercedez in the new Transformers film immediately springs to mind. He even said that Mercedez wouldnt allow for a car of theirs to be a villain :laugh: .
yep. that's as good a confirmation you could get, looks like the rumours of the Giger designed Alien being seen on set etc was probably just a lie by the source who leaked it to the mods
What would you answer if you want to keep it secret?
Is the orginal xenomorph involved?
Yes - yes
No comment - yes
Maybe - yes
We will see - yes
Next question - yes
So IF you want to keep it secret you can only answer NO ;D
But i can live with something new if it is well done.
Also concrete confirmation that the Jockey as we know it is only a suit, and there is something else inside.
Great read there.
And Giger only did some big murals.
We will see Xenos hosted by "Aliens" life forms not humans or related to life on earth (the dog and the cow). So, that's why they will be totally different xenos.
Ridley is very open in giving away information in this interview, so i guess he does not lie about the missing of the classic xeno. sad tough.
A xenomorph is in Disneyland! :o
"We will see Xenos hosted by "Aliens" life forms not humans or related to life on earth (the dog and the cow). So, that's why they will be totally different xenos."
what makes you so sure?
So at one point it seems that Giger is doing a bit project and later it seems that he's doing just a small project as mural painter. We'll see. I'll adore the cover up and any lies actually coming from the production on purpose. I'm not too keen on the idea of the space jockey being a human in a suit, we'll have to wait though to find out what's actually there though, humanoid or not humanoid.
Well, I think that it was a great idea that the alien pilot was a giant space faring extra-terrestrial of some sort who wasn't from the human race.
QuoteWho was pushing and pulling to adjust us?
There's the tie in to the Prometheus myth, and the reason for the giant head. The Space Jockey was not an inconsequential alien, or even a meandering terraformer. This f**ker has been messing with humans, in the same way that Prometheus 'shaped' mankind.
I am surprised at how literal this turned out to be.
-Chris
So if the Jockey is just a suit, that negates that a chestburster busted through its ribs. Lame
Quote from: Darkoo on Dec 17, 2011, 03:09:09 PM
And Giger only did some big murals.
Then I wonder who designed the creature in the suit...
Ridley is quite clearly having a laugh at our expense :) I enjoyed that interview and the misinformation in it :)
God please don't let it be a suit!!
Quote from: m138jewski on Dec 17, 2011, 03:29:08 PM
So if the Jockey is just a suit, that negates that a chestburster busted through its ribs. Lame
Well, it might have burst out of the ribs of the little chap inside
On the contrary, I don't think there was any misinformation in it. The interview seemed very honest to me
Well now I definitely believe there's a bit of truth to those 'leaked' scripts about us being created by Gods.
Good read. Glad the the alien, as was, isn't part of it myself. Giger's involvement is frankly more than I'd expected, as the murals are presumably the puzzling message that starts the mystery.
Quote from: higherprimate on Dec 17, 2011, 04:00:02 PM
God please don't let it be a suit!!
this!. i wont be so bothered if its still a huge alien creature in some kind of space suit but im really hoping its not gonna be some normal sized human type being, i think i will be majorly disappointed....
thanks
rich
hmmm At this point it is becoming increasingly clear that the Alien as we know it will not feature at all in Prometheus. Ridley has officially confirmed the original creature will not be in the new film. But will a new form of the Alien be present?
This was a great read 8) quite interesting
Excellent read thanks for that.
I hate to be the told you so guy but there you have it from the Horse mouth
Spoiler
Giger did not do a lot in the movie.
Been saying this for month and been called names for that. I understand those who wanted to wait for an official statement and stayed civil, the others "bite me fanboy" ^^ Maybe now some will be less eager to jump at my throat when i say something...
I wonder if those murals could be telling some sort of backstory...
Like the Egninneer story, his homeworld, how they colonizd planets, even maybe how Earth and Humans were created,
I'm so unhyped right now... -.-
Ok Ridley Scott says that the film isn't directly related to Alien but at the end of the third act, He said you'll start to realise there's a DNA of the first alien but not of the subsequent aliens.
What does Ridley Scott mean anyway?.
Ridley's been saying since last year the the original Alien WILL NOT appear, even when it was a bona fide, Lindelof-less Alien prequel. So no changes there. It's a Space Jockey movie. Some variant of the Alien may appear. Maybe. We'll see.
Come on. I don't care what Ridley, Riddler, says. It has ALIEN-DNA all over the place. The poster, the thing that is lying on the floor. The pods looking like ALIEN-eggs. It is an ALIEN movie.
Quote from: Valaquen on Dec 17, 2011, 05:22:16 PM
Ridley's been saying since last year the the original Alien WILL NOT appear, even when it was a bona fide, Lindelof-less Alien prequel. So no changes there. It's a Space Jockey movie. Some variant of the Alien may appear. Maybe. We'll see.
So Ridley Scott is wanting this movie to have something to do with the Space Jockey rather then the Alien is this true?.
THANK GOD/and or Space Jockeys that there are no Xenomorphs! That rag has been rung dry, too dry. The classic alien has been reduced to a laughing stock after Alien 4, and those disgusting AVP films. Why would you want any more xenomorphs? To do what? Crawl on walls and chase people around? Too predictable. Sir Ridley the Grand Master is back and I'm sure he's going to surprise us with some new creatures, meaner and nastier than before!
Quote from: mastermoon on Dec 17, 2011, 05:20:23 PM
Ok Ridley Scott says that the film isn't directly related to Alien but at the end of the third act, He said you'll start to realise there's a DNA of the first alien but not of the subsequent aliens.
What does Ridley Scott mean anyway?.
I take that to mean there will be connections to questions set up in A L I E N (1979) ie, the mystery around the space jockey, but that subsequent alien films and the directions that they took will not be referenced in any way. Cool.
It was never stated that Giger ONLY did murals, it was only pointed out that he did murals...and in terms of the Xenos.....keyword....ORIGINAL...who knows what's in store.
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 17, 2011, 05:18:44 PM
Excellent read thanks for that.
I hate to be the told you so guy but there you have it from the Horse mouth
Spoiler
Giger did not do a lot in the movie.
Been saying this for month and been called names for that. I understand those who wanted to wait for an official statement and stayed civil, the others "bite me fanboy" ^^ Maybe now some will be less eager to jump at my throat when i say something...
I wonder if those murals could be telling some sort of backstory...
Like the Egninneer story, his homeworld, how they colonizd planets, even maybe how Earth and Humans were created,
that was known well before you mentioned it. now either back up all your claims or give it a rest, youre becoming extremely irritating.
From day one Ridley made clear that no xeno will show its long face.
The new creatures will come from the same biotechnology, the same creator, so they will have something in common.
Design and lifecycle wise.
Ridely is not saying it's an ALIEN prequel because :
no xeno will appear.
no characters from ALIEN will appear.
no haunted house in space story.
It will not lead to the Derelict crash or take off of the Nostromo.
coz average moviegoer will probably not rush in the Theatres to see anything with ALIEN in the title.
It's a marketing move for a universe sidestory companion piece.
It's no more the story of the creature but of its creator.
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 17, 2011, 05:48:15 PM
RICH,
Spoiler
VA TE FAIRE ENCULER ^^
Told ya about Arthur max and what happened a while ago and i'm the fisrt and only one who said that.
You ve been busting my balls because of that since i've said it.
Now you're gonna say i'm not the one who said it?
WOW you really have no face LOL
When i will post the storyboard from the movie you will still find something to piss about and still have the nerve to call me a lier. So it's ok we get it, you don't like me now stop busting my balls.
I know now that you have no decency.
I will not bother to respond anymore to you attacks and enjoy the forums with my fellow fans.
From day one Ridley made clear that no xeno will show its long face.
The new creatures will come from the same biotechnology, the same creator, so they will have something in common.
Design and lifecycle wise.
Ridely is not saying it's an ALIEN prequel because :
no xeno will appear.
no characters from ALIEN will appear.
no haunted house in space story.
It will not lead to the Derelict crash or take off of the Nostromo.
coz average moviegoer will probably not rush in the Theatres to see anything with ALIEN in the title.
It's a marketing move for a universe sidestory companion piece.
as to your spoiler aimed at me, lets get something straight, i never said anything to you about gigers role so thats a total lie, i knew months before you even joined this site that giger was in a consulting role, and hes not been heavily involved in any alien movie since the first so it doesn't take a genius or insider knowledge to know he isn't as involved as he was in alien, i can point you to a thousand or more articles from february that mention gigers consulting role, BUT hes actually done designs... which disproves your nonsense as thats more than consulting.
heres one such article
http://www.slashfilm.com/ridley-scotts-prometheus-feature-giant-animatronic-alien/ (http://www.slashfilm.com/ridley-scotts-prometheus-feature-giant-animatronic-alien/)
so dont you tell me youre the one that informed me of gigers consulting role, its been known for a very long time.
i had a go at you for calling the mods liars about the trailer by saying it was fake, so you deserved what was said.
so far all youve done is make out you have some sort of insider knowledge by rambling about stuff thats already known, and proven nothing whatsoever.
if you have something to share then share it and back it up, either that or shut up because its becoming very annoying, and your attention seeking behaviour is like a school child.....
Addressing and insulting one another in spoiler tags is still not acceptable. Stop butting heads and keep on topic, if you want to battle one another, do it via PM and not on the boards.
"Ridley Scott's sci-fi movie, currently going by the name Prometheus, is going to be a very large and intense story, with a scope that is epic, the final act is where the movie switches gears and shifts into Aliens territory. Pinewood houses an exact replica of the H R Giger Space Jockey command post. You may notice in the original Alien that the Space Jockey had a puncture on its considerably large chest, where the xenomorph broke out through the flesh of the creature and broke through the biomechanical armor it wears. You may also notice how big the Space Jockey is in relation to its human counter parts in the film. So imagine how big the baby must be, which is yet to grow. Then imagine quite a few of these. If you can do that, you got a pretty good grasp on the final act. And do not be expecting the traditional look either, these are very different creatures that will keep the general architecture of the xenomorph, but will have a considerably different look, and do very perverse things.
However, before all of this I hear that the story is not only reminiscent of 2001, but is also trying to push the boundaries of what a modern tent pole science fiction movie could be. This is all I can share, but trust me, you seriously need to start being excited about this project, because not only is this I am assured, not nostalgia for nostalgia reasons, but a whole new spin on that old chestnut.
The story is a very closely guarded secret in Hollywood, and while it is not a direct prequel "officially" it has more than just passing ties towards the Alien saga's canon. You will have all the things that worked in the Alien canon, and very new and fresh and some controversial ideas presented, sexuality is dealt with quite directly. There may even be a robot or two. And the ship, which I am told is the current titles name, Prometheus. Highly original, both in concept and design I hear."
The quote above I think is becoming more relevant as the release grows closer, particularly in relation to this interview with Ridley and the one he done with Empire. This is a report from way back in april from market saw and alienprequelnews. anybody else think this particular report could be true?
Evrey Marketsaw reports are right on the money.
They were the first one to talk about a giant sculpture of a face.
wasn't it sky who originally mentioned the giant head?
The xeno is in Disneyland. I guess my Aliens vs Pooh avatar is kind of apt! Another great article, come on trailer!
Not sure about it, i think they did talked about a giant head piloting the ship but the accurate description of a giant bust of the Engineer (and also more description about who is the engineer) comes from Marketsaw.
EDIT
scratch that, looks like i mixed the leak you posted with the one from geek tyrant ^^ My bad
Spoiler
I was speaking with a guy who is working on the set of prometheus and he showed me some pictures and told me a bout the storyline. The space jockey that you see in alien who has had his chest busted open is the guy who engineers the aliens. He sends the aliens to planet that he wants to take over. The aliens kill the locals and he flys in and pillages the land of its resources. It seems as though he is responsible for the aliens creation, i'm guessing that he is some kind of super scientist.
The engineer is played by some huge guy who is 8ft tall. He appears even bigger in the space jockey scene from Alien as he is wearing a space suit. He appears to have died in a seat that looks like it is some sort of weapon control, this is in fact the navigation system that the space ship uses to open worm holes and plot its course. Perhaps the aliens revolted and, knowing that he has been impregnated, he is desperately trying to return home to have the alien extricated?
He showed me some pictures from the set. There is a huge silver bust of the engineers head, it is approximately 15m high. It appears that the engineer is sort of leader of a civilisation and there is a cult around his personality and his alien creations, this is probably due to the fact that he has mastered the technology that continues to provide the resource requirements of his home world. I also saw a picture of the actor who plays the engineer in what appeared to be some sort of cryo-chamber.
But i've been following Marketsaw when they were leaking AVATAR news and i believe them to be rather serious.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Dec 17, 2011, 03:16:05 PM
A xenomorph is in Disneyland! :o
Yes there is. One of the attractions features it. At least when I went
about 10 years ago.
Quote from: LiquidMonster on Dec 17, 2011, 06:40:08 PM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Dec 17, 2011, 03:16:05 PM
A xenomorph is in Disneyland! :o
Yes there is. One of the attractions features it. At least when I went
about 10 years ago.
And it still is there. Went there a 3 years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiOr4CJhVFI# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiOr4CJhVFI#)
Thanks for the vid.
I get the point Scott is trying to make about the xeno being in Disneyland but it's now a pop culture icon, you have toys, comics etc featuring its no more a terrifying creature.
I love the fact that he wants to push the envellope and scare peoples again.
But the Xeno is stiill a remarquable creation and it's gonna be tough to top that.
Btw this attraction looks cool ^^
QuoteSo if the Jockey is just a suit, that negates that a chestburster busted through its ribs.
We've seen that an alien can go through a space suit in the case of the facehugger and Kane. I don't think it's entirely impossible that a chestburster (especially one the size that made the hole in the Space Jockey suit) to burst through a sort of armor.
"How does Ridley Scott's Prometheus fit into universe of the Alien films?
Quite simply: it has the Alien aliens in it. The catch, though, is that you might not recognise them – at least, not at first.
Remember how the alien took on canine qualities after gestating in a dog? You may even suppose that the first film's alien was so recognisably humanoid because it had grown in a human. The same applies here: generation by generation, the creature mutates. As Prometheus begins, the xenomorph is not too recognisable. Sure, it has that alien DNA that Scott and Fassbender teasingly referred to, but it's missing... well, it's missing human DNA. Or dog DNA.
All you have to do is imagine how it might look if it were to mix DNA with another alien species... and I think we're starting to work it all out."
Also, this quote from bleedingcool way back in February suggests a never before seen version of the alien is in Prometheus. But these sources could all be full of shit. obviously the source who told Corporal Hicks that they seen the 'Giger designed Alien' was telling fibs as scott has blatantly confirmed that the original alien will not be in Prometheus at all.
The bleeding cool quote looks wrong to me, since the Engineers are looking to be almost human they could with no problem give birth to the xenos we know.
I strongly believe that the xenos are an way much older bioweapon and that the creature we will se in Prometheus will not be their ancestors but a new race created from the same biotechnology.
And if they are from the same tech the new creatures can possibly have some designs features that are close to the original Xenos.
and what makes you strongly believe that?
Quote from: Jeru on Dec 17, 2011, 06:58:18 PM
QuoteSo if the Jockey is just a suit, that negates that a chestburster busted through its ribs.
We've seen that an alien can go through a space suit in the case of the facehugger and Kane. I don't think it's entirely impossible that a chestburster (especially one the size that made the hole in the Space Jockey suit) to burst through a sort of armor.
well yeah but that mean the space jockey was dead inside that suit in alien, after the xeno errupted from his chest.some remains should have remained inside the suit,but it didn't seemed that way.
we are over analyzing it.maybe they just decided to change the nature of the space jockey for prometheus,to better tell or fit the story of the movie
"EGE: Will we see the original xenomorph in Prometheus?
RS: No. Absolutely not."
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *rage quits life*
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Dec 17, 2011, 07:50:47 PM
"EGE: Will we see the original xenomorph in Prometheus?
RS: No. Absolutely not."
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *rage quits life*
He first said this a year and a half ago. Why are people surprised now?
when fassbender said in the EW article "there's definitely a link to Alien, there's creatures in it you'll recognise"
can we assume he was simply referring to the spacejockey?
(though if that was a suit with a being inside it then technically that wouldn't be a 'creature', just armour/ a suit, thus it would be something we haven't seen before and obviously wouldn't recognise!)
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Dec 17, 2011, 07:27:20 PM
and what makes you strongly believe that?
That would explain why the Derelict ship was on LV426 for eons, why the SJ (or his suit) is fosilised.
Without having to resort to time travel to justify it's presence and state.
The Xeno being an old bioweapon used to colonize planets.
Storywise it works better than having some sort of proto or pure xeno in PROMETHEUS.
It fits whats Scott's trying to do, create new worlds, new creatures that evokes the old ones but move forward not back.
If we had a straight sequel, those new creatures would have been the proto xeno and the crashing ship the Derelict but since it's no more it seems to me to be the obvious way to make it work.
But i could be wrong :)
Quote from: Valaquen on Dec 17, 2011, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Dec 17, 2011, 07:50:47 PM
"EGE: Will we see the original xenomorph in Prometheus?
RS: No. Absolutely not."
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *rage quits life*
He first said this a year and a half ago. Why are people surprised now?
No idea, perhaps that thread a while back about prepping people rather obviously that Prometheus wasn't A L I E N, wasn't such a daft idea afterall? Surely the whole announcement that this wasn't a prequel was a way of negating any protracted assumptions that
xenomorphs aliens as they were, were not going to feature. You only had to read between the lines to see that it was still an A L I E N prequel, but one that wasn't tied to the expected ingredients. Well, that's only a good thing IMHO, sequels and prequels that follow a (tick box) formula are pointless. Nothing that has been revealed about Prometheus in these new snippets disappoints or particularly surprises me. Nothing's changed, it's just getting dangerously close to spoiler territory now so I'm going to have to wean myself away from this forum so I can enjoy the story when it's released.
Okay, if all Giger did was some damn murals, I'm going to be upset.
Two franchises with the same point of Origin (Jockeys) ?
Quote from: OhYouWantSomeOfThis on Dec 17, 2011, 08:30:19 PM
Okay, if all Giger did was some damn murals, I'm going to be upset.
i doubt that, i get the feeling there will be an early (maybe non humanoid) version of the xeno or some other creature that giger has designed but ridley doesn't want to give it away.
thanks
rich
Quote from: EEV-2501 on Dec 17, 2011, 08:41:09 PM
Two franchises with the same point of Origin (Jockeys) ?
What franchise is that?
^Alien and Prometheus.
Quote from: Gash on Dec 17, 2011, 08:10:50 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Dec 17, 2011, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: Bio Mech Hunter on Dec 17, 2011, 07:50:47 PM
"EGE: Will we see the original xenomorph in Prometheus?
RS: No. Absolutely not."
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *rage quits life*
He first said this a year and a half ago. Why are people surprised now?
Nothing's changed, it's just getting dangerously close to spoiler territory now so I'm going to have to wean myself away from this forum so I can enjoy the story when it's released.
I was just thinking that myself.
The Derelict may not be the same Jockey ship as the one referenced in Prometheus, due to the fact the Jockey seat seen in recent stills is not fossilised or even xeno-hived, its a nice glossy chrome seat.
Prometheus is also set 37 years before Alien and we know the film wont end with the derelict crashing on LV-426. The xeno eggs therefore were in existance before Prometheus happens.
It is touted that there may be xenos in it that are taken from the Jockeys and are bigger but not fully grown. There have been rumours of snake or worm-like xenos, a giant Jockey-chestburster would be a giant snake xeno, right?
I also think the film will debunk the Queen by showing how xenos came to be (thus explaining how the eggs on the derelict came to be) because Ridley says this film will connect with the first ALIEN but not the ones past that. Perhaps we will get a better explanation of the egg-morphing?
;D
The news sounds interesting, at least Ridley said something about Xenomorphs. It's too bad we won't see them (It's a shame that AVPR is the last time that we seen them on film for now) but I'm still looking forward to the film nevertheless.
Quote from: EEV-2501 on Dec 17, 2011, 08:51:32 PM
^Alien and Prometheus.
Phew, Ok. Prometheus could be a franchise according to Noomi... but I sort of hope not. Although that's best decided after seeing it. But, not every successful film needs to be a franchise, often it only tars by association. If Scott did decide to further the story by directing a further chapter that's the only way I'd be happy. Please don't let anyone else steal the reins again, (well, unless perhaps David Fincher could get his own back on Fox).
So Prometheus will only be canon to the first movie and not the sequels, eh? I wonder if this means Fox is going to go the Halloween route and divide up the timeline into different continuities. It could work, that way there could still be the classic timeline with the nine movies we already have and Ridley Scott can make his intended timeline with fans that hate the regular timeline getting what they want. I'd rather have this canon though or at least with minimal contradictions to allow people to make up their own minds.
And the statement on what happened to the Nostromo Drone going to Disneyland, classic. :laugh:
Well i would of liked to see a xenomorph in the last act of the film. but im not that upset that ridley scott has said they wont be. BUT i hope we at least see an alien egg just before credits roll. But if not at least we are gunna see some jockey action so im still pumped. :):):)
Quote from: Gash on Dec 17, 2011, 09:15:34 PM
Quote from: EEV-2501 on Dec 17, 2011, 08:51:32 PM
^Alien and Prometheus.
Phew, Ok. Prometheus could be a franchise according to Noomi... but I sort of hope not. Although that's best decided after seeing it. But, not every successful film needs to be a franchise, often it only tars by association. If Scott did decide to further the story by directing a further chapter that's the only way I'd be happy. Please don't let anyone else steal the reins again, (well, unless perhaps David Fincher could get his own back on Fox).
Absolutely agree. I hope it will be a stand alone. I was more thinking about two different "journeys" if i can say.
Quote from: mastermoon on Dec 17, 2011, 05:20:23 PM
Ok Ridley Scott says that the film isn't directly related to Alien but at the end of the third act, He said you'll start to realise there's a DNA of the first alien but not of the subsequent aliens.
What does Ridley Scott mean anyway?.
(i assume) He means theres egg morphing (alien), not egg laying. (aliens +)
Quote from: Ridley Scott on Dec 17, 2011, 02:26:48 PM
To me, it's entirely logical. It's entirely ridiculous to believe that we are the only ones here. That's why my first thought is that for us to be sitting here right now is actually mathematically impossible without a lot of assistance. Who assisted? Who made the right decisions? Who was pushing and pulling to adjust us? That's a fair question.
Why? How? What kind of a conclusion is that? We were assisted? Based on what? Because there may be other intelligent lifeforms light years away? Shit makes no sense, nigga. Did they also assist rhinoceroses with developing such a big horn? Maybe the big penis of a horse was a gift from aliens? Because, to me, when I look at some mathematics and shit, it's pretty logical to me. And
deep.
Quote from: Gash on Dec 17, 2011, 09:15:34 PM
If Scott did decide to further the story by directing a further chapter that's the only way I'd be happy. Please don't let anyone else steal the reins again, (well, unless perhaps David Fincher could get his own back on Fox).
Your statement makes me wonder exactly how David Fincher would feel about coming back to the franchise. In all honesty, he'd be my second choice to direct any planned sequel to
Prometheus after Ridley Scott. I doubt Scott would do a sequel to
Prometheus though. He was approached to do Alien3 and he turned it down. Like Scott, I think Fincher's presence as director would also draw a lot of talent who would want a part in the film. I'd like to see Fincher attempt a horror film under the restriction of a PG-13 rating.
I wouldn't want to see Cameron do another
Alien sequel because I'm afraid he'd just rehash some of his old ideas from previous films to make something "new"...like how
Avatar already shares so many parallels to
Aliens. :-\
Quite sad that politics and ego left Giger out of the creative process.
His murals are gonna be awesome i have no doubt and all the rest of movie designs (ship, pilot seat and suit, new creatures etc...) will bare it's mark. The new artists involved, Carlos Huante mainly had a big task and enourmous footsteps to follow but i'm pretty conviced they can pull this up.
No Xenos? Then I probably won't see this movie.
The mural is probably a really huge thing. Something like the Sistine Chapel but far more bigger.
Don't you want to see new creatures, who mightl end being maybe more scary and wicked than the xenos?
About the mural, Scott says that it will be the first thing the crew will see when they enter a chamber. Remind me that before entering the ship (where there is the Head and Urns) you can see that the tunnels have some construction in it.
Also in the shot where you see the vehicules leaving the hangar it seems to me that there is some sort of construction ahead.
I wont suprised that Scott finally used the ditched original opening of ALIEN, the pyramid temple.
I doubt it will keep the original pyramid design, but definitly be some sort or temple ruins and in the first chamber the Giger Mural depicting the Engineers story, then upon further investigation, they go deeper and find the ship...
I like the fact that Scott sticks to his original concept of the Derelict being a bioweapon transporter en route to war.
I remember he said something about the bioweapons, the xenos, against who was the space jockey was going to use it?
As the Geek tyrant report said, they are used to colonise worlds, i doubt we will see that on screen in PROMETHEUS bu could be in a sequel where you can see that there is another race or faction of Engineers and there's an intergalactic colonisation war going on...
I love it when Scott said that it's gonna be Epic.
I don't want a rehash of ALIEN, would be cool to have something with a wide scope as AVATAR but way more dark.
^Do you think the creatures/followers are what IMDB referred has Mecahnics ? If it's the case, they have to be has freaky has the xenos.
I would die to finaly seet this on screen!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_l5o5hnBg5G1qa1o5zo1_500.jpg&hash=e927982a7d2f504b251b3cc364f047d99c62b91f)
You're referring to the PARADISE synopsis?
Not sure about the followers thingie anymore...
What made me believe it at first is that image inside the ship where you see a suited caracter fall to his knee and on the background a group of seemingly bald people wearing white clothes...
I think that KFS and PARADISE may have got some stuff right but not the creature part.
And from the cast they are using for the Engineers, phisical actors, ithink they are gonna be a pretty ferocious threat too.
The followers have apparently a huge place in Paradise. What is your theory about the creatures ?
Tbh I'm so relieved we don't see any Xenos... I mean sure if anybody could have pulled it off, it would be Ridley. The thing is though that this Prometheus thing really feels like a grand mythology that wants to go places and the Xeno we all know just doesn't belong there.
Still hoping we will see some kind of evil creature/weapons that will be worthy of this legacy.
Oh and if Giger is hardly involved, don't get your hopes high on seeing any of his art in the film...
Scott did say that there would be 'biomechanoids' in Prometheus
Quote from: cmdcnqr on Dec 17, 2011, 05:29:23 PM
THANK GOD/and or Space Jockeys that there are no Xenomorphs! That rag has been rung dry, too dry. The classic alien has been reduced to a laughing stock after Alien 4, and those disgusting AVP films. Why would you want any more xenomorphs? To do what? Crawl on walls and chase people around? Too predictable. Sir Ridley the Grand Master is back and I'm sure he's going to surprise us with some new creatures, meaner and nastier than before!
There's
nothing wrong with the Alien. If there was, you wouldn't even be a member of these forums. :)
More to the point, people wouldn't
still be counting the two original films as amongst their favourites, to this very day - and actively rewatching them.
Ridley's jaded. That's understandable. But I think he's wrong about them no longer having value. It's simply that they haven't been portrayed
right since the eighties. That's a big part of why people get so pissed off at the other films (especially the AVP ones). It's because fandom realises there's so much immense potential for the things and, every time, we see professionals getting paid a ridiculous amount of money to treat them with respect and we see it being squandered.
There's been some truly amazing atmospheric artwork produced of the Aliens since the late eighties. Heck, there have been some amazing professional statues produced, too. Some crappy stuff, yes, but the sheer volume of the truly atmospheric stuff is impressive. If someone was able to reproduce that level of iconic horror in film form? You can bet the creatures would be revitalised and back at the top of their cinematic game.
If the Aliens are so unscary and past their prime, then name me something which has replaced them in the public imagination and
isn't a direct copy. :)
It's like Terminators... They've been shamelessly copied and parodied, countless times. Does that mean to say the original films and designs would be any less effective, today? No! It's just that they haven't been portrayed
right. They haven't had the right script, story and directors. You
could make an excellent new '
Terminator' film, it's just that nobody has.
And, really, would '
Prometheus' even be generating half the hype it has if it was known to have nothing in common with the other '
Alien' films? I don't think so.
It's a prequel. It's intended to be a part of the same continuity. It doesn't matter that we won't be seeing the Aliens, themselves. We'll be seeing other things. But to say there's no way the Aliens could ever be handled right in future is to devalue what made - and still makes - those original films so iconic and powerful, today.
Not that there's anything wrong with new creatures, by any means. If there's something on the level of Sil, from '
Species', except more vicious and predatory, that'd be fine. I just don't agree with this recent need I've seen from some quarters to hype up the new film at the expense of devaluing the old ones.
Besides which, if Ridley
truly thought that? He wouldn't have had those meetings we know he did with Sigourney Weaver and James Cameron, where they bitched about what had gone wrong with the later portrayals and decided to 'do it right'. Sadly, according to Cameron, Ridley just never bothered getting back in touch after he agreed to try and write the story for it.
Xenomorphine...I'm not quite getting your logic.
Just because there hasn't been any creature as scary as the alien doesn't by default mean that the alien itself is still scary. Ridley wasn't saying there's no value in the creature, he's saying and has said, as it looks now, it isn't as impactful as it has been. That is a true statement.
Can it be scary again? Maybe....but the question is how. You're also right that there's been some great statues and atmospheric work including the creature, but that doesn't equate that ergo, the creatures are still scary...they're beautiful concepts.
People still clamor here at AvP and other alien related sites because of a shared love of the films and the memories attached to them. Personally, I'm excited about Prometheus, not because of the creature but because of what I've been reading may be in store for us. I could not see the alien again and I would be fine. The alien doesn't scare me anymore. It IS tired. It has value yes, but it needs a bit of a break.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 17, 2011, 11:18:16 PMSadly, according to Cameron, Ridley just never bothered getting back in touch after he agreed to try and write the story for it.
I don't find that sad. More a relief, glad Ridley had his own plan.
This is the most prestigious franchise in Sci-Fi but after 30 years it needs to evolve radically and to a really brand new direction. Otherwise it's the end of the Alien and his mythology.
Quote from: EEV-2501 on Dec 17, 2011, 11:00:15 PM
The followers have apparently a huge place in Paradise. What is your theory about the creatures ?
Scott said the facehugger and the xeno as a shape are worn out but i don't think that he believes the same of the lifecycle.
From what Scott and many reports hint to it seems that we are getting again the same sort of parasite.
Something that rips throught the guts.
I'm pretty sure to have seen a slug in the 15 sec trailer leak and there is the thing jumping at us/a character in the leaked trailer. The two are probably the same.
I would bet my money on a new design but that evokes the xenos in some way since it's the same biotech.
Then iwon't be suprised that not only the humans get infected, some Engineers could fall victims of their own creations and lead to another creature in the climax.
Thatw what the marketsaw report hinted at.
Bigger, meaner and more perverse creatures.
Like their creators.
We definitely need the HD version of the trailer.
Ridley Scott: "By the end of the third act you start to realize there's a DNA of the very first alien, but none of the subsequent aliens. To tell you what that is is a pity, and I'm not going to tell you, because it's actually pretty good, pretty organic to the process and to the original. But we go back, we don't go forward."
So basically, time moves backwards throughout the whole movie or at the very end. They end up in the distant past. Would explain the fossilised suit.
Ridley Scott has mentioned the Space Jockey is in Prometheus but when he the film isn't directly related to Alien, does that mean it's not connected to it?.
Theorized about that when Scott said that he was shooting the begining of time and that Rapace & Theron were present in Iceland exhausting themselves running.
But he also said that those scenes of the begining of time are the first minutes if the movie, and Theron & Rapace said that they were shooting the end of the movie (you can see two suited characters running for their lives in front of the crashing Engineer's ship in the trailer).
Quotethere's a DNA of the very first alien, but none of the subsequent aliens
Doubt he's hinting at actual time travel, seems to me he's talking actually about the creature itself not the movies, no?
So Proto Alien?
Quotethere's a DNA of the very first alien, but none of the subsequent aliens
Seems to me he's talking actually about the creature not the movies...
So Proto Alien?
[/quote]
Slug things people think they are seeing turn more facehuggery?
Quote from: mastermoon on Dec 18, 2011, 12:16:36 AM
Ridley Scott has mentioned the Space Jockey is in Prometheus but when he the film isn't directly related to Alien, does that mean it's not connected to it?.
Topics merged. There was already a relevant thread for this.
I just realised, Ridley is lying his ass off. He contradicts what he says in the Empire article regarding the xeno.
"He was marvellous, but he's cooked," laughs 74 year old Ridley Scott of the Nostromo's unforgettable chestbursting stowaway. "He's now got an orange in his mouth." What Alien's famous director wants to make clear, as post production on his much-vaunted $100 million, 3D return to the science-fiction genre, draws close, is that he has gone back to the universe of his groundbreaking classic, but he's also moved on. "I felt there was still life in the old sod, but it has evolved into something else. To stick to the story, you don't really get it until about eight minutes from the end."
now it could just be a proto xeno but still.....
Pretty sure he meant there was still life in the Alien-verse.
I'm not understanding some of the gripes.
1) It was never going to have the Alien in it.
2) It was 85% certain the Jockey was a suit
3) We all knew Giger didn't have much to do with it.
This is what happens when you get 15 sub topics speculating on scraps of information, people lose sight and start dreaming.
It still sounds like the movie I though it was going to be.
Quote from: tmjhur on Dec 18, 2011, 12:28:27 AM
Quotethere's a DNA of the very first alien, but none of the subsequent aliens
Seems to me he's talking actually about the creature not the movies...
So Proto Alien?
Slug things people think they are seeing turn more facehuggery?
[/quote]
Could be... Dunno... Goes against the facehugger shape being worn out Scott talking about...
And i don't like the idea of proto xeno coz it doesnt work with the Derelict being on LV426 for centuries...
Also i find it quite weird that you would have to wait for the final 8 minutes to realize that there is DNA of the first alien? ALIEN?
I mean they are not going to enter the ampule room find the SJ dead body/suit, the pilot chair in the last 8 minutes.
And it's not gonna be the Derelict class ship coz it already in the trailer and i doubt Scott would spoil that Alien DNA surprise.
So the DNA thing is not metaphorical, coz as soon as you get into the Ampule room you KNOW you're in an ALIEN movie.
The DNA thing has to be literal, so DNA from the first xeno creature...
Save from the proto xeno i don't really see what he could mean...
I hope it's something else...
I wonder what Giger's murals are going to look like. Maybe a re-imaging/elaboration of this kind of style?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi516.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu325%2Fmappster65%2F20287.jpg&hash=fe8265482c304be8ba235129f573d772124d474c)
Won't suprise me to be something like this but maybe more history oriented...
Something that tells a tale of some sort.
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 17, 2011, 10:26:44 PMThe new artists involved, Carlos Huante
Is that confirmed, or just hearsay? Anyone?
EDIT: scratch that, it is confirmed.
-Chris
I still wonder if the humanoid in the above hieroglyph is meant to be the Space Jockey race?
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Dec 18, 2011, 02:31:12 AM
I still wonder if the humanoid in the above hieroglyph is meant to be the Space Jockey race?
I'd presume so. They look similar.
Meh, i'll just wait for Prometheuses.
A movie about Space Marines going to some other planet to fight Jockeys.
Cameron better stop making them Avatar movies and get working on it.
Cameron is not suited to write a grand mythology story.....maybe he can prove us wrong? I'd watch that movie :)
Quote from: Gash on Dec 17, 2011, 11:34:18 PM
I don't find that sad. More a relief, glad Ridley had his own plan.
Not at the time, he didn't. :) In fact, that
was his plan. He was actively discussing with them how to do a decent fifth film about the creatures. He
wanted to use them. Cameron would've written/produced and he would've directed. Clearly, he very much
did see ways to invoke those old primal fears about them.
Heck, even just listening to his commentary for the two DVD editions (I haven't got the BR versions, don't know if he did another), it's clear he could have done a great next addition with the same creatures.
I suspect that some of this interview is just bluster and hype.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Dec 17, 2011, 11:25:59 PM
Xenomorphine...I'm not quite getting your logic.
Just because there hasn't been any creature as scary as the alien doesn't by default mean that the alien itself is still scary. Ridley wasn't saying there's no value in the creature, he's saying and has said, as it looks now, it isn't as impactful as it has been. That is a true statement.
Only because it hasn't been handled right. Only because it's been in lots of parodies. My Terminator analogy still applies.
Should we also never feature vampires in another horror film, just because they've been constantly made fun of, too? Of course not. There are film-makers who can make them just as epic as ever, no matter how many times '
Dracula' has been made fun of in cartoons.
QuoteCan it be scary again? Maybe....but the question is how. You're also right that there's been some great statues and atmospheric work including the creature, but that doesn't equate that ergo, the creatures are still scary...they're beautiful concepts.
If people still find them scary in the original films (and they do), there's no reason they couldn't be made just as scary in new ones. Or even more so.
I still remember it not being all that long ago that the community was getting massively excited with ideas they felt were being suggested as being used for '
Requiem', but ultimately weren't. The Alien is still a highly valid concept. Ridley's jaded because he's seen something he was partially responsible for, back in the seventies, gradually saturate into popular culture. But there's an impulse from some, which I feel is misguided, where they just advocate throwing the baby out with the proverbial bath water.
QuotePeople still clamor here at AvP and other alien related sites because of a shared love of the films and the memories attached to them. Personally, I'm excited about Prometheus, not because of the creature but because of what I've been reading may be in store for us. I could not see the alien again and I would be fine. The alien doesn't scare me anymore. It IS tired. It has value yes, but it needs a bit of a break.
Believe me, I understand the need for a new creature. It was something I actually suggested more than a decade ago, believe it or not. :) Back when I was part of a group which attempted to make a script revolving around the events of Hadley's Hope, I worked out a scene in the derelict where it was inferred the Alien eggs were just one compartment of many. That there were a whole host of different Lovecraftian nasties in there. Just unseen.
I love the idea that they're just one part of an entire ecosystem... I remember one of the novelisations where a character asks what if the Aliens are like the mice of their world? That there are far worse things which make a habit of hunting
them? You don't even have to see it. Just suggest it and your mind suddenly shifts into realising there could be some real cosmic horrors.
That is, I believe, what the intent of this new film is going to be and, provided it's actually good (there's always a chance it might turn out to be a disappointment; nobody can yet say), I'm all for that.
But... Saying that the original creatures are tired? No. The wrongful
portrayals of them not being done right? Sure. By all means! But if they were handled with the same level of realism and atmosphere as in the seventies and eighties, invoking a real feeling of malevolence and of something terribly
wrong made flesh... It would be all the more powerful, precisely because it hasn't been done in so long.
The Alien isn't tired. It's just had its rightful place usurped by imposters. :)
The same applies to other such villains. Terminators, like I said. They could be immensely powerful and engaging icons if handled right. They aren't tired.
The '
Doctor Who' fandom gets this. Part of it says the Daleks are tired and need to be held off of for a while, but the rest of it recognises that's
not the problem. The problem is that the Daleks haven't been written for correctly or portrayed in a genuinely menacing way for a long while.
To put it simply, if someone opened a new restaurant and I'd been eating crappy pizza from some sub-standard outlets for a while, I wouldn't say I need to swear off pizza. I wouldn't say pizza's shit and can never taste good, ever again. I'd say, OK, I'm going to eat at that new restaurant! But if someone bothers to sell good-tasting classic pizzas, then I'm going to pay my money there, too. :)
@xenomorphene.
I like all your points, and all very valid.
I think personally, although you can always find a better Pizza, sometimes it's good to try other things and come back to it at a later date. It'll taste twice as good.
It's far far too early for Ridley Scott or any director worth his money, to be thinking about reintroducing the creature in a stand alone film. Both AVP films put the creature in a really bad spot, and those bad films are still quite fresh in the memory.
As much as we as fans would like it, with increasing cinema tickets, the current economy and the general trend in the industry to make very poor remakes, it's not a gamble worth taking.
I said from the start I would have been very surprised if an Alien was put in Prometheus. Purely because of these reasons.
QuoteAlso i find it quite weird that you would have to wait for the final 8 minutes to realize that there is DNA of the first alien? ALIEN?
I think for non-fan boys the last 8 minutes will help bridge the gap from Prometheus to Alien. For those of us on the forums who meticulously watch the movies over and over (notably Alien) we will see other instances in the movie, well before that last 8 minutes that have a familiar tone and look of the Alien franchise. Giger may have done just a few murals but I think they are definitely going to make plenty of nods with other aspects of the film to his enduring style.
Well, at least we finally know for sure about whether or not the Classic Xeno will appear in the film, that was one of my biggest questions. Glad to see it answered.
Quote from: Jace Madan on Dec 18, 2011, 06:29:14 AM
Well, at least we finally know for sure about whether or not the Classic Xeno will appear in the film, that was one of my biggest questions. Glad to see it answered.
Classic Xeno cannot be there...he is in Disneyland now...
Prometheus also gonna answer one big question for all of usl:
Spoiler
Namely what was first: The chicken or the egg.....
It where ampules...
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Dec 18, 2011, 02:19:54 AM
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 17, 2011, 10:26:44 PMThe new artists involved, Carlos Huante
Is that confirmed, or just hearsay? Anyone?
EDIT: scratch that, it is confirmed.
-Chris
where has it been officially confirmed that carlos huante is involved with Prometheus?
Carlos Huante was involved in Prometheus and he even made some brief statement about the creature design. Search in the forum here, you will find.
Ok thanks. found an interview with Huante from way back in march where he confirms his involvement. can't find the statement on what he has said about the actual creature design though.
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Dec 18, 2011, 03:47:18 AM
A movie about Space Marines going to some other planet to fight Jockeys.
Cameron better stop making them Avatar movies and get working on it.
Yikes! No thanks.
Huante's stuff is good...damn good. His work affects you psychologically as well as visually. If honed correctly, I think he could give us something terrifying on all levels.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Dec 18, 2011, 04:33:17 AM
Cameron is not suited to write a grand mythology story.....maybe he can prove us wrong? I'd watch that movie :)
Terminator is all about biblical stuff.
You can't go more mythological than that.
Cameron is more than just an actioner.
I wonder if the content of Giger's murals are going to be the discussion point of the movie for the next decade
^^ Interesting thought. so do we think now that Giger has ONLY designed the murals in the film?
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Dec 18, 2011, 03:38:33 PM
^^ Interesting thought. so do we think now that Giger has ONLY designed the murals in the film?
We're being told this, but what else there is to think is another matter. I thought that he came to join Ridley in Iceland for a while on the film there.
I haven't read that Giger actually was in Iceland with Ridley. when was that mentioned?
I'm confused if Ridley was talking about Giger's 11 month inclusion on Prometheus or the original ALIEN as well?
Ridley's statement on the aliens could mean no xenomorphs at all or just no xenomorphs in the way we know them. Maybe we get to see an earlier version of them or what happens when a facehugger impregnates a space jockey.
Anyway, this is the space jockeys' show. And I'm glad to know that.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Dec 18, 2011, 04:18:22 PM
I'm confused if Ridley was talking about Giger's 11 month inclusion on Prometheus or the original ALIEN as well?
11 months is in relation to alien
No aliens, then theres not much point this movie being put on an alien/predator site... no? regardles.. not very interested to see the movie now, so cya guys.
Quote from: SHREK on Dec 18, 2011, 06:35:42 PM
No aliens, then theres not much point this movie being put on an alien/predator site... no? regardles.. not very interested to see the movie now, so cya guys.
lol
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Dec 18, 2011, 03:48:32 PM
I haven't read that Giger actually was in Iceland with Ridley. when was that mentioned?
I thought that I read that Ridley said he was coming over to work on the film while it was shooting there. I really don't know how long ago. I'm going to have to hunt for that comment to see how real it was
Quote from: EEV-2501 on Dec 17, 2011, 11:34:29 PM
This is the most prestigious franchise in Sci-Fi but after 30 years it needs to evolve radically and to a really brand new direction. Otherwise it's the end of the Alien and his mythology.
Imo Sir Scott already buried the Alien with his words. And soon the mythology will end by the Jockeys. He's on a good way to finish both. -.-
Quote from: SHREK on Dec 18, 2011, 06:35:42 PM
No aliens, then theres not much point this movie being put on an alien/predator site... no? regardles.. not very interested to see the movie now, so cya guys.
Man, posts like this make me happy. If enough of these types stop going to the movies, Hollywood may be forced to start making intelligent films for the rest of us!
Amen Clemens. If you want to go to movie just to see a creature, you're going for the wrong reasons. Rent both AvP films, and Alien Resurrection and call it a day.
Is it possible the horror in Prometheus will be from a slightly different angle? Obviously it needs actual horror elements and tension and scary scenes, but I am thinking maybe somehow the horror needs to be on a more... psychological angle if that makes any sense? Then again, horror is all in the mind, making it 100% psychological anyway. Thoughts on this possibly bizarre interpretation?
They sell Alien-stuff at Disneyland? Hahaha, that is so lame.
The ALIEN film makes an appearance on the Great Movie Ride. I don't think its too lame though, I mean, its a Disney Ride and ALIEN's a horror film, but its an important part of cinema history. :)
I doubt there are too many toys, though.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 18, 2011, 09:41:07 PM
Man, posts like this make me happy. If enough of these types stop going to the movies, Hollywood may be forced to start making intelligent films for the rest of us!
I suppose we'll just have to count the days before Prometheus vs Predator
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 18, 2011, 09:41:07 PM
Quote from: SHREK on Dec 18, 2011, 06:35:42 PM
No aliens, then theres not much point this movie being put on an alien/predator site... no? regardles.. not very interested to see the movie now, so cya guys.
Man, posts like this make me happy. If enough of these types stop going to the movies, Hollywood may be forced to start making intelligent films for the rest of us!
What? So a movie that is promoting the ideas of 'Intelligent Design' is an intelligent film is it? I bet you love Tom Cruise.
I.D. is an insult to all science, mathematics, and intelligent thought beyond common sense. Ridley might as well have made a movie about Tinkerbell and the Xenomorphs.
So, I've been pondering...as I like to do ;) ......Is Prometheus just a creature film dressed in a grand science fiction mythos? As we near ever closer to an official trailer release I realize that I'm in this for a couple of different reasons, the first, which is the biggest....WHAT THE FU€K kind of creature will I be seeing, and will it terrify me??......and Two, it's a film directed by Ridley Scott, who's first two science fiction efforts defined a generation and the genre (and still do) and it's very possible, Prometheus will continue the precedent.
That's why I'm in this. Not for the traditional Xenos, not to see another Ripley, etc...
Addendum....intelligent design is as plausible a theory as anything, and this gets back to a larger and confirmed and agreed upon truth that life had a jump start by something, NASA, and the Vatican agree upon this. Furthermore, it's highly possible that the beginnings of man and life on this planet was started by some greater entity/force/creator/comet/whatever. Believing that doesn't negate evolution whatsoever.
Intelligent Design has been dismissed by science - in court! Its essentially Creationism in sheep's clothing.
And by the way, Evolution does not place Mankind at the center - Intelligent Design does.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Dec 18, 2011, 10:50:09 PMAddendum....intelligent design is as plausible a theory as anything
No it's not, it's a complete fallacy. As soon as you put a creator into the mix, you need a creator of the creator, ie. a meta-creator, then a meta-meta-creator, then a meta-meta-meta creator etc... it never ends. The logic is irreparably flawed. Your only logical option is to then assume a meta-physical creator, and such an idea does not belong with science. You really can't call it a theory, because it isn't one. It is a faith based idea, nothing more.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Dec 18, 2011, 10:50:09 PM...confirmed and agreed upon truth that life had a jump start by something
Yes, something perhaps, but not an intelligent, purposeful something. You are filling in the gaps with God. Another logical furphy.
IMO there is nothing wrong with the idea of alien intervention in human affairs. It's pretty far fetched, but this is science fiction after all.
-Chris
I am not about to get into a creation/evolution debate here. Suffice to say I believe in God for good reasons, and I don't think that arguing about it is going to lead to good results.
Anyways, it's a science fiction film. It's clearly not meant to put the issue to rest once and for all anymore than any other movie that supports creationism/God as the reason for existence. Likewise, the same applies to any movies that support the theory of evolution. Movies do not define the universe, they are great stories, but taking sides is sometimes what they do but also not meant to be factual in a real-life sense. Think of movies as being theories too. If they're not theories, then they are no longer movies but documentaries. You don't think Prometheus is going to be a documentary, do you?
Quote from: Gunflyer on Dec 18, 2011, 11:25:20 PM
I am not about to get into a creation/evolution debate here. Suffice to say I believe in God for good reasons, and I don't think that arguing about it is going to lead to good results.
Anyways, it's a science fiction film. It's clearly not meant to put the issue to rest once and for all anymore than any other movie that supports creationism/God as the reason for existence. Likewise, the same applies to any movies that support the theory of evolution. Movies do not define the universe, they are great stories, but taking sides is sometimes what they do but also not meant to be factual in a real-life sense.
Yup, let's not turn to a religious debate. Prometheus is fiction, likely in the vein of Kubrick's 2001.
Quote from: Gunflyer on Dec 18, 2011, 11:25:20 PMI am not about to get into a creation/evolution debate here.
There shouldn't be a debate. Faith and science are not meant to go together. Faith and science fiction can go wherever you like.
-Chris.
Am I the only one worried here that this movie might actually dismiss Aliens, Alien 3 and A:R??? From what ive read in this interview, it looks like the Alien sequels will be ignored...which I don't really like the idea of.
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Dec 18, 2011, 11:29:46 PM
Am I the only one worried here that this movie might actually dismiss Aliens, Alien 3 and A:R??? From what ive read in this interview, it looks like the Alien sequels will be ignored...which I don't really like the idea of.
We'll just have to wait and see. I don't see how a prequel can completely ignore everything unless it's a complete reboot or an alternate universe movie like the Star Trek prequel or X-men first class(Both of which kicked ass IMHO).
I don't see why Ridley would have an obligation to touch Aliens, etc. Its closest descendent in the Alien series is the original movie, and it'll hardly touch on that, allegedly.
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Dec 18, 2011, 11:29:46 PMAm I the only one worried here that this movie might actually dismiss Aliens, Alien 3 and A:R??? From what ive read in this interview, it looks like the Alien sequels will be ignored...which I don't really like the idea of.
I think this is one of the reasons the Scott has decided to deviate away from the alien and tell a different story. He may not like the sequels but he does need to respect their existence. It seems that his ideas about the alien are vastly different from everyone else. I imagine that the alien is just a small part of the picture and it's actual nature as shown in the other films will be left alone in Prometheus.
-Chris
But some years later we might see another crossover with jockeys and for example predators...
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Dec 18, 2011, 11:33:43 PM
[I think this is one of the reasons the Scott has decided to deviate away from the alien and tell a different story. He may not like the sequels but he does need to respect their existence.
-Chris
Well he doesn't really. If he decides that the first Xenomporph could have been shat from the Space Jockey's ass then that's how its going to roll.
Quote from: Highland on Dec 19, 2011, 12:07:00 AM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Dec 18, 2011, 11:33:43 PM
[I think this is one of the reasons the Scott has decided to deviate away from the alien and tell a different story. He may not like the sequels but he does need to respect their existence.
-Chris
Well he doesn't really. If he decides that the first Xenomporph could have been shat from the Space Jockey's ass then that's how its going to roll.
Seems legit...
Quote from: Highland on Dec 19, 2011, 12:07:00 AM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Dec 18, 2011, 11:33:43 PM
[I think this is one of the reasons the Scott has decided to deviate away from the alien and tell a different story. He may not like the sequels but he does need to respect their existence.
-Chris
Well he doesn't really. If he decides that the first Xenomporph could have been shat from the Space Jockey's ass then that's how its going to roll.
The alien being shat from the Jockeys ass is fine, because the alien can then go off and evolve into whatever it likes. My point was that Scott is not focusing on the alien because to do so means that everything he does with it has to then work into the subsequent films. That's why he is avoiding it. He may not give a stuff about the other films, but surely he isn't so aloof as to alienate generations of fans. Hell, maybe he is, I don't know.
-Chris
I doubt it, why would he care?
Cameron pretty much abandoned Scott's idea's and took them down a different path.
With his feelings on the creature, I doubt it would happen anyway. I don't think he'd be too fussed at pissing off a few fans in the quest to make a better Alien film.
X-men first class pretty much assigned Xmen- Last stand to the scrap heap. It wouldn't be anything new.
Quote from: Highland on Dec 19, 2011, 12:27:36 AM
I doubt it, why would he care?
Cameron pretty much abandoned Scott's idea's and took them down a different path.
With his feelings on the creature, I doubt it would happen anyway. I don't think he'd be too fussed at pissing off a few fans in the quest to make a better Alien film.
X-men first class pretty much assigned Xmen- Last stand to the scrap heap. It wouldn't be anything new.
For me personally , Aliens are < than Alien....to ne honest, I dom't like Camerons movies that much.
Aliens is such a classic movie, im sure its more popular that the first movie...to abandoned what Cameron created would be harsh...I love Cameron and his story telling and film making...as far as i know Scott actually liked the 2nd movie, they just never really answered the question about the crashed Jockey in the original...
I really hope this movie doesnt exclude the other movies...Yes ill prob love this movie because its Scott returning to science fiction, and lets be honest we haven't really had a sci-fi movie like Blade Runner since...well, Blade Runner.
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Dec 19, 2011, 12:41:34 AM
Aliens is such a classic movie, im sure its more popular that the first movie...to abandoned what Cameron created would be harsh...I love Cameron and his story telling and film making...as far as i know Scott actually liked the 2nd movie, they just never really answered the question about the crashed Jockey in the original...
I really hope this movie doesnt exclude the other movies...Yes ill prob love this movie because its Scott returning to science fiction, and lets be honest we haven't really had a sci-fi movie like Blade Runner since...well, Blade Runner.
Blade Runner = untouchable classic of the classics
The movie has no xenos and deals with the Engineers race.
So why would it have to aknowledge anything that happened in ALIEN sequels?
None of the sequels took place in the part of the universe PROMETHEUS is gonna touch nor includes the Engineer race neither.
PROMETHEUS is going its own way, a new mythology based on unexplored parts of ALIEN.
I don't need and there will be probably no nod to any other film of the franchise.
Ignoring them doesnt make them bad, or mean that Scott don't respect them, he's doing his thing.
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 19, 2011, 12:48:12 AM
The movie has no xenos and deals with the Engineers race.
So why would it have to aknowledge anything that happened in ALIEN sequels?
None of the sequels took place in the part of the universe PROMETHEUS is gonna touch nor includes the Engineer race neither.
PROMETHEUS is going its own way, a new mythology based on unexplored parts of ALIEN.
I don't need and there will be probably no nod to any other film of the franchise.
Ignoring them doesnt make them bad, or mean that Scott don't respect them, he's doing his thing.
The space Jokey is in the movie, so yeah the original movie is acknowledged in this movie, and in the last 8 minutes of the movie we may be introduced to the genesis/origins of the Alien.
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 19, 2011, 12:48:12 AM
The movie has no xenos and deals with the Engineers race.
So why would it have to aknowledge anything that happened in ALIEN sequels?
None of the sequels took place in the part of the universe PROMETHEUS is gonna touch nor includes the Engineer race neither.
PROMETHEUS is going its own way, a new mythology based on unexplored parts of ALIEN.
I don't need and there will be probably no nod to any other film of the franchise.
Ignoring them doesnt make them bad, or mean that Scott don't respect them, he's doing his thing.
Some people want to see the xenomorph, plain and simple. Just opinions and preferences formed over the years of being a fan of Alien :)
i wouldnt be completely let down if there isnt a xenomorph, but let's just say I'd be more ecstatic if there is one
Quote from: 180924609 on Dec 18, 2011, 10:48:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 18, 2011, 09:41:07 PM
Quote from: SHREK on Dec 18, 2011, 06:35:42 PM
No aliens, then theres not much point this movie being put on an alien/predator site... no? regardles.. not very interested to see the movie now, so cya guys.
Man, posts like this make me happy. If enough of these types stop going to the movies, Hollywood may be forced to start making intelligent films for the rest of us!
What? So a movie that is promoting the ideas of 'Intelligent Design' is an intelligent film is it? I bet you love Tom Cruise.
I.D. is an insult to all science, mathematics, and intelligent thought beyond common sense. Ridley might as well have made a movie about Tinkerbell and the Xenomorphs.
Not sure where you got
that angle from, but you're putting words in my mouth. I said that if the person I quoted is going to skip this film because it doesn't have a traditional Alien in it, then I'm happy to see him go.
He can watch
Requiem. I'm gonna watch
Prometheus.
(And for the record, with the assistance of some magic mushrooms, a 'Tinkerbell and the Xenomorphs' movie could be pretty kick-ass. :laugh:)
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 19, 2011, 12:48:12 AM
The movie has no xenos and deals with the Engineers race.
So why would it have to aknowledge anything that happened in ALIEN sequels?
None of the sequels took place in the part of the universe PROMETHEUS is gonna touch nor includes the Engineer race neither.
PROMETHEUS is going its own way, a new mythology based on unexplored parts of ALIEN.
I don't need and there will be probably no nod to any other film of the franchise.
Ignoring them doesnt make them bad, or mean that Scott don't respect them, he's doing his thing.
because the only contact humans had with the space jcokey was on lv 426.aliens is set 50+ years after alien and still the only way to get a xeno was to settle a human colony on the planet,but it got destroyed. after that came a:r hundreds of years after that and the only way to get a xeno was to clone ripley.
in conclusion they can present in this movie whatever they want,but this is got to be the only time humans actually interact with the space jockey and his culture.or if they plan a sequel,it has to take place before the first alien.whatever the case the only thing they can do is either have a survivor from the events in prometheus ,or or the possible sequel, to get back on earth and tell the story so they can later programe ash and give him his directive. or no one in prometheus survives and they only get to send some kind of message home. but if lindelof said he hopes for a sequel,either someone survives and go home,or we get to see another adventure,expedition taking place.hopefully bedore the events in alien. i hope they will respect this because at the end of the day it is still a fox franchise
these are my only concerns with this movie.other than that i don't really care how will the aliens look,what they find on the planet,differences of style between the first alien and prometheus regarding how the alien and human tehnology look
Quote
Not sure where you got that angle from, but you're putting words in my mouth. I said that if the person I quoted is going to skip this film because it doesn't have a traditional Alien in it, then I'm happy to see him go.
He can watch Requiem. I'm gonna watch Prometheus.
(And for the record, with the assistance of some magic mushrooms, a 'Tinkerbell and the Xenomorphs' movie could be pretty kick-ass. )
Fair enough ;). I'm going to watch Prometheus too.
But that doesnt mean I have to like it.
I understand but it's now certain that there will be no Xeno, no xeno means also no xeno origins neither.
I mean we are not going to see a facehugger in those last 8 minutes no?
That would contradict what Scott said.
A sequel to PROMETHEUS that takes place in the same universe as the ALIEN sequel could be possible.
Ripley drifted for 57 yeras without being found and could have drifted even more.
I think that a whole lot of PROMETHEUS and its sequel can happen in the ALIEN universe without having to be in contact.
Maybe the characters or survivors of PROMETHEUS will be sent or find themselves in a afr off galaxy unexplored by humans, or maybe the survivors will have a reason to stay low in the ALIEN universe.
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Dec 19, 2011, 12:53:34 AMThe space Jokey is in the movie, so yeah the original movie is acknowledged in this movie, and in the last 8 minutes of the movie we may be introduced to the genesis/origins of the Alien.
Yes, it is more than just a passing reference. The impetus for the story seems to be that if the first alien was so damn hideous, who could possibly be responsible for creating them? The alien is spoken for; we don't really need to know anything more about it, other than who created it and why. It's the perfect angle for a new film IMO.
-Chris
Quote from: 180924609 on Dec 18, 2011, 10:48:15 PM
What? So a movie that is promoting the ideas of 'Intelligent Design' is an intelligent film is it? I bet you love Tom Cruise.
I.D. is an insult to all science, mathematics, and intelligent thought beyond common sense. Ridley might as well have made a movie about Tinkerbell and the Xenomorphs.
With respect, this is a ridiculous over-reaction... Ye gods, Hawking loved one of the most bizarre and psychedelic science-fiction franchises in existence, so much so that he got a cameo in it - '
Star Trek'! Was he over-analysing it and tutting and shaking his head at it portraying a
literally omniscient species or was he, like all the rest of us, happy to just sit back and enjoy John De Lancie's awesome portrayal of Q? Because I'm betting it's the latter. :)
And Dawkins went and married a '
Doctor Who' companion actress and did a cameo in that, too! In one of its most ridiculous stories yet! Should we all ridicule him, too and declare, "HOW DARE YOU?!"
Science-fiction is one of the most tremendously visionary mediums in existence. Just look at
your involvement, right now. You're posting in a forum in tribute to films which revolve around a creature which can grow from the size of a snake to
over eight feet tall in less than 24 hours without apparently eating anything. It's a little late to start lamenting some sort of over-arcing 100% scientifically explained validity, isn't it? ;)
There's absolutely
nothing wrong with the ET interventionist hypothesis. It's got nothing to do with religion. If anything, you could say it's a thoroughly
scientific way of looking at our origins, since its whole basis is one of genetic tampering to manipulate our natural evolution.
Now, if it's portrayed in a ridiculous manner, then fair enough. But putting it in a science-fiction epic is a perfectly suitable medium for exploring that as a springboard for an adventure story.
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 19, 2011, 12:48:12 AM
The movie has no xenos and deals with the Engineers race.
So why would it have to aknowledge anything that happened in ALIEN sequels?
Because it's intended to be a part of the same continuity.
QuoteNone of the sequels took place in the part of the universe PROMETHEUS is gonna touch nor includes the Engineer race neither.
False.
QuotePROMETHEUS is going its own way, a new mythology based on unexplored parts of ALIEN.
I don't need and there will be probably no nod to any other film of the franchise.
Ignoring them doesnt make them bad, or mean that Scott don't respect them, he's doing his thing.
None of which negates the sequels. They're only 'ignored' if contradicted and there's zero reason to do that.
I've been away for a minute and am to lazy to read through this entire thread and others to see what is going on, but I would think that having read the interview if the SJ is indeed carrying a ship full of weapons by the time Alien starts, and those weapons being the Aliens themselves, that he would have some sort of other bitey monster that is a precursor to the thing we all know and love in the original series in the "prequel".
As long as there is indeed a creature that is malevolent to the crew running amok and causing havoc I'm good. What I don't want is some sort of Stargate/2001 crossover.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 19, 2011, 01:53:09 AMThere's absolutely nothing wrong with the ET interventionist hypothesis. It's got nothing to do with religion.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with it in science fiction, even in scientific theoretical thought. Arthur C. Clarke and Isaac Asimov (among many others) have explored these ideas, and they were both very scientifically minded authors. I guess it depends on what each person considers plausible in there own mind. Arthur C. Clarke certainly thought that it was plausible that an alien species intervened in human evolution, and he surely understood more about human history and the science of evolution than most of us here.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2011, 02:28:14 AMWhat I don't want is some sort of Stargate/2001 crossover.
Similarities to 2001 I have no problems with. Stargate? Eeesh.
-Chris
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Dec 18, 2011, 11:29:46 PM
Am I the only one worried here that this movie might actually dismiss Aliens, Alien 3 and A:R??? From what ive read in this interview, it looks like the Alien sequels will be ignored...which I don't really like the idea of.
that sounds bullshit to me.
wasn't it confirmed, through an interview with scott, that terraforming will be a main theme of the movie?
to tie in the universe of alien, it is most important to explain the motives of weyland(-yutani) or at least, to make an accurate picture of what they're dealing with. so i don't think it wil dismiss the four films, but define them.
I think Scott has got himself overly tied up in smeantics and pedantry on this one. If you've made a film that features the space jockeys, then it is an Alien film. It doesn't need to feature the xenomorph itself, it's still an Alien film as it is based upon a fictitious construct from those films. That's all there is to it. Whether it features xenomorphs or not, Prometheus is an Alien film. ALl this dancing about the issue by the makers is really tedious - it's like doing a film about the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man and going, "ooh, but it isn't a Ghostbusters film because they're not in it themselves".
Everyone knows, Ridders. Relax.
Well, it's probably FOX insisting that it's played down as an A L I E N film for fear of false marketing. Yes, we all know that if the SJ is there then it's obviously all part of the same thing, but FOX, being full of daft execs who think that sequels/prequels exist to retread the old formula and satisfy expected parameters are probably a bit nervous about stating it's an A L I E N prequel, minus the regular alien.
As someone else pointed out, the general cinema going public will be seeing an original film, in which they might make connections in the last 8 minutes, the rest of us will probably be noting the alien-ness running through the film from the opening onwards.
Some of us don't need to see a new Kane's son for it to be an Alien film, and others, judging by some of the reactions to Scott's recent interview, do (and are having a bit of a tantrum about it). Which is exactly why it's been played down from the start.
I don't f****** care what is in the film as long as it's worth watching! I also don't want to know before hand what I am going to see either. Ridley is being very vague about things and also misleading which is fine by me :) AS long as ALF the alien doesn't turn up I'm ok.
Actually, I'm thinking of setting a date of New Years Day to ignore all threads to do with Prometheus. Spoiler territory is fast approaching, and I'd rather not be here when it arrives :)
Quote from: Dogme on Dec 19, 2011, 12:16:13 PM
I don't f****** care what is in the film as long as it's worth watching! I also don't want to know before hand what I am going to see either. Ridley is being very vague about things and also misleading which is fine by me :) AS long as ALF the alien doesn't turn up I'm ok.
Actually, I'm thinking of setting a date of New Years Day to ignore all threads to do with Prometheus. Spoiler territory is fast approaching, and I'd rather not be here when it arrives :)
I have a feeling that by the time the movie will be released , all "true" spoilers turns out to be false....
I guess I'm sort of confused with people desperately trying to hold on to the original Alien in this movie? Yes I think at some point it would be fascinating to focus on the Engineers when they decided to create the Xenomorph... but you cant go from "A" to "C". This movie will answer who the Engineer/Space Jockey is/was/etc. It's only fair that after 30+ years it get's it's own stand alone background story. When I look at Hollywood sometimes when people try to bite off more than they can chew, or more than can be conveyed in one movie... well things get muddled up. Better to focus on the Jockey build a grand mythos, then set up for a sequel which depending on Prometheus' success will be almost inevitable and see where it goes.
We know there is a creature in this movie... get excited for that instead of if its the Alien you know. Just like artists often create their work in a similar style the creature we are introduced too, maybe run in the same style of the Xenomoprh?
Well said Ryan,
I'm a little daunted myself as to why people are desperate to see the original Alien in Prometheus and not let it breath and have its own life. I get the nostalgia bit, I do, but I'd just want a great original film set in the same universe. I think that's what's gonna be happening.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Dec 19, 2011, 02:25:25 PM
Well said Ryan,
I'm a little daunted myself as to why people are desperate to see the original Alien in Prometheus and not let it breath and have its own life. I get the nostalgia bit, I do, but I'd just want a great original film set in the same universe. I think that's what's gonna be happening.
History is repeating. In Alien in 1979 people witnessed all new original never before seen creature. Now in Prometheus we will see something original again, and after it it will live it's own life like Alien did.
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Dec 19, 2011, 12:41:34 AM
Aliens is such a classic movie, im sure its more popular that the first movie...to abandoned what Cameron created would be harsh...I love Cameron and his story telling and film making...as far as i know Scott actually liked the 2nd movie, they just never really answered the question about the crashed Jockey in the original...
I'm sure Scott has approached
Prometheus with the same level of abandonment that Cameron did with
Aliens. I don't think it's a problem... it's a good way of coming up with some modicum of originality and standalone/self contained story telling.
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 19, 2011, 01:15:39 AM
I understand but it's now certain that there will be no Xeno, no xeno means also no xeno origins neither.
I mean we are not going to see a facehugger in those last 8 minutes no?
That would contradict what Scott said.
I wouldn't say that at all. I think the new movie will almost certainly cover the origins of the 'Xeno' without ever showing it (in the form we know and love) directly.
Quote from: Gash on Dec 19, 2011, 11:08:34 AM
Well, it's probably FOX insisting that it's played down as an A L I E N film for fear of false marketing. Yes, we all know that if the SJ is there then it's obviously all part of the same thing, but FOX, being full of daft execs who think that sequels/prequels exist to retread the old formula and satisfy expected parameters are probably a bit nervous about stating it's an A L I E N prequel, minus the regular alien.
I think it's far more probable that it's Scott who has tried to underplay the
Alien connections rather than FOX. FOX have everything to gain if they get millions of punters lining up to see a new Alien movie by Ridley Scott (regardless of Xeno content). Scott does have a reputation that, I'm sure, he wants to maintain. He has a filmmaker's ego in that he wants his name associated with something new/credible rather than movie No. 7 in a movie franchise... Of course whether it turns out to be a good movie in its own right remains to be seen.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Dec 19, 2011, 02:25:25 PM
I'm a little daunted myself as to why people are desperate to see the original Alien in Prometheus and not let it breath and have its own life. I get the nostalgia bit, I do, but I'd just want a great original film set in the same universe. I think that's what's gonna be happening.
Agreed. I'd rather have a good movie
without a 'Xeno' than a bad movie with them. I'd rather have a movie with a progressive narrative and style, and fall short/dissapoint mass audiences, than a movie just re-treading the same ole same ole to galvanise the masses.
Has anyone even thught that if the Xenomorph didn't exist before PROMETHEUS, then everything Genious Paul and the AVP movies were will be completely negated?
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Dec 19, 2011, 02:25:25 PM
Well said Ryan,
I'm a little daunted myself as to why people are desperate to see the original Alien in Prometheus and not let it breath and have its own life. I get the nostalgia bit, I do, but I'd just want a great original film set in the same universe. I think that's what's gonna be happening.
I don't understand why people want to see the original alien again as well. If someone wants to see THE alien in a film again, why don't they just watch the original ALIEN. There, problem solved :)
Quote from: Billy_mx on Dec 19, 2011, 07:33:45 PM
Has anyone even thught that if the Xenomorph didn't exist before PROMETHEUS, then everything Genious Paul and the AVP movies were will be completely negated?
Yes theoretically it would indeed negate those movies (which I don't think most consider canon but rather a seperate saga). However the Aliens may exist in this movie but may just not be addressed.
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Dec 19, 2011, 07:57:37 PM
Quote from: Billy_mx on Dec 19, 2011, 07:33:45 PM
Has anyone even thught that if the Xenomorph didn't exist before PROMETHEUS, then everything Genious Paul and the AVP movies were will be completely negated?
Yes theoretically it would indeed negate those movies (which I don't think most consider canon but rather a seperate saga). However the Aliens may exist in this movie but may just not be addressed.
Prometheus is tied, if it's possible to say it so, to Alien, not to other movies.
If prometheus is tied to alien, which it is because of the SJ involvement, then it would be tied to the rest of the Alien series. If the events in Prometheus lead to the creation of the Alien, and that contradicts AvP. Then f**k AvP.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2011, 11:29:03 PM
If prometheus is tied to alien, which it is because of the SJ involvement, then it would be tied to the rest of the Alien series. If the events in Prometheus lead to the creation of the Alien, and that contradicts AvP. Then f**k AvP.
Please please let this happen......
I've been away for a while, but who is this engineer everyone is talking about?
Quote from: robbritton on Dec 19, 2011, 09:18:34 AM
I think Scott has got himself overly tied up in smeantics and pedantry on this one. If you've made a film that features the space jockeys, then it is an Alien film. It doesn't need to feature the xenomorph itself, it's still an Alien film as it is based upon a fictitious construct from those films. That's all there is to it. Whether it features xenomorphs or not, Prometheus is an Alien film. ALl this dancing about the issue by the makers is really tedious - it's like doing a film about the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man and going, "ooh, but it isn't a Ghostbusters film because they're not in it themselves".
Everyone knows, Ridders. Relax.
Agreed!
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2011, 11:29:03 PM
If prometheus is tied to alien, which it is because of the SJ involvement, then it would be tied to the rest of the Alien series. If the events in Prometheus lead to the creation of the Alien, and that contradicts AvP. Then f**k AvP.
How would it contradict AVP?
Quote from: ElderPredator on Dec 20, 2011, 01:37:45 AM
I've been away for a while, but who is this engineer everyone is talking about?
belive me: nobody knows it. just a nick-name everybody is throwing with.
that's mythology.
Quote from: Kol on Dec 20, 2011, 02:38:01 AM
Quote from: ElderPredator on Dec 20, 2011, 01:37:45 AM
I've been away for a while, but who is this engineer everyone is talking about?
belive me: nobody knows it. just a nick-name everybody is throwing with.
that's mythology.
Oh alright, it just got me confused.
Quote from: ElderPredator on Dec 20, 2011, 02:40:36 AM
Quote from: Kol on Dec 20, 2011, 02:38:01 AM
Quote from: ElderPredator on Dec 20, 2011, 01:37:45 AM
I've been away for a while, but who is this engineer everyone is talking about?
belive me: nobody knows it. just a nick-name everybody is throwing with.
that's mythology.
Oh alright, it just got me confused.
the engineer is supposed to be one of the space jockey, maybe there leader or pilot, or crazy scientist or god. just don't know.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 20, 2011, 02:37:45 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2011, 11:29:03 PM
If prometheus is tied to alien, which it is because of the SJ involvement, then it would be tied to the rest of the Alien series. If the events in Prometheus lead to the creation of the Alien, and that contradicts AvP. Then f**k AvP.
How would it contradict AVP?
If the Aliens were created at the end of prometheus then they wouldn't be around during the present time the AvP movies were set in.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 20, 2011, 03:36:07 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 20, 2011, 02:37:45 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2011, 11:29:03 PM
If prometheus is tied to alien, which it is because of the SJ involvement, then it would be tied to the rest of the Alien series. If the events in Prometheus lead to the creation of the Alien, and that contradicts AvP. Then f**k AvP.
How would it contradict AVP?
If the Aliens were created at the end of prometheus then they wouldn't be around during the present time the AvP movies were set in.
I am pretty certain that Ridley Scott does not consider AvP as legitimate, nor that he is in anyway required to make his story consistent with the AvP universe.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2011, 11:29:03 PMIf the Aliens were created at the end of prometheus then they wouldn't be around during the present time the AvP movies were set in.
Works for me. 8)
-Chris
I don't care either way. I consider AvP just a spinoff in its own self contained universe anyways.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 20, 2011, 03:36:07 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 20, 2011, 02:37:45 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2011, 11:29:03 PM
If prometheus is tied to alien, which it is because of the SJ involvement, then it would be tied to the rest of the Alien series. If the events in Prometheus lead to the creation of the Alien, and that contradicts AvP. Then f**k AvP.
How would it contradict AVP? ya but the space jockey in aliens was supposed to be fossilized, so that mean the alien burst in the past.
If the Aliens were created at the end of prometheus then they wouldn't be around during the present time the AvP movies were set in.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 20, 2011, 05:03:53 AM
I don't care either way. I consider AvP just a spinoff in its own self contained universe anyways.
AvP is about as relevant as one of those Alien or AvP graphic novels, in other words not at all relevant :)
So then that would also contradict Predator 2.
Are you guys ready for a jaw dropping revelation?
It's a remake. :o :o
Let me explain.
When it was first announced by Fox, there was talk that they wanted to remake "Alien" and at one
point I believe Sir Ridley's nephew was to direct it.
His nephew left and talk began about it not being a remake but "prequel" and that Ridley Scott would come
back to direct.
Flash forward to where we are today with Scott's numerous quotes about the movie having the "alien dna" but that it goes in a bit different direction. Especially news with our favorite Xenomorph NOT making an appearance according to Scott. Though this shouldn't be much of a surprise as he was often quoted that the monster was too watered down now to be scary and that if he did come back, there would be a new "take/design" on the creature.
Now Fox is apparently very happy with the final film and is talking sequels already.
What I believe has happened is that Scott has used the Space Jockey as the centerpiece of the story but introduces us to a NEW HORRIFIC CREATURE/ALIEN. Yes, the derelict and Space Jockey(s) are in(strands of A L I E N dna) but a new A L I E N menace will be introduced as well, re-energizing our favorite space critter.
Ok LiquidMonster, what about the possible ending where the derelict crashes on what we believe is LV-426 which our ill-fated Nostromo crew later find in "A L I E N"?
Doesn't matter. If this is indeed a cleverly disguised remake(I think it is) Scott could go in any number of directions for the proposed sequels and wouldn't necessarily have to follow up with a lone mining ship finding the derelict on LV-426 for the sequel.
What Scott has done is brilliantly remake his first A L I E N film while breathing new and exciting directions into the "mythology".
Don't say I didn't tell you come next June.
;D ;)
Quote from: Cecil on Dec 20, 2011, 05:39:23 AM
So then that would also contradict Predator 2.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmodernsophist.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F09%2Fdope-exploding-head.jpg&hash=21a9b898ffa450d89c17e142319114248e4e924c)
Scott better make it all weird and mysterious so we cant tell cause if he messed up P2 ...... im out!
Quote from: LiquidMonster on Dec 20, 2011, 01:21:59 PM
at one point I believe Sir Ridley's nephew was to direct it.
You mean his daughter's fiancé
Quote from: LiquidMonster on Dec 20, 2011, 01:21:59 PM
Are you guys ready for a jaw dropping revelation?
It's a remake. :o :o
Let me explain.
When it was first announced by Fox, there was talk that they wanted to remake "Alien" and at one
point I believe Sir Ridley's nephew was to direct it.
His nephew left and talk began about it not being a remake but "prequel" and that Ridley Scott would come
back to direct.
Flash forward to where we are today with Scott's numerous quotes about the movie having the "alien dna" but that it goes in a bit different direction. Especially news with our favorite Xenomorph NOT making an appearance according to Scott. Though this shouldn't be much of a surprise as he was often quoted that the monster was too watered down now to be scary and that if he did come back, there would be a new "take/design" on the creature.
Now Fox is apparently very happy with the final film and is talking sequels already.
What I believe has happened is that Scott has used the Space Jockey as the centerpiece of the story but introduces us to a NEW HORRIFIC CREATURE/ALIEN. Yes, the derelict and Space Jockey(s) are in(strands of A L I E N dna) but a new A L I E N menace will be introduced as well, re-energizing our favorite space critter.
Ok LiquidMonster, what about the possible ending where the derelict crashes on what we believe is LV-426 which our ill-fated Nostromo crew later find in "A L I E N"?
Doesn't matter. If this is indeed a cleverly disguised remake(I think it is) Scott could go in any number of directions for the proposed sequels and wouldn't necessarily have to follow up with a lone mining ship finding the derelict on LV-426 for the sequel.
What Scott has done is brilliantly remake his first A L I E N film while breathing new and exciting directions into the "mythology".
Don't say I didn't tell you come next June.
;D ;)
a remake of alien?!
surley it will have the tone of the original, terror/horror, but sophisticated also.
we aren't even sure at the time if prometheus is a real prequel to alien or a total standalone and you're saying it's gonna be a remake... ::)
it will be a remake as predators was a remake of predator. but nothing more.
The original prequel set to be shot by Carl Rinsch was actually some sort of remake.
A bit like THE THING remake.
But PROMETHEUS is not a remake at all.
It's set 37 years before the events of ALIEN.
Now it will have some similar moments wich are to be expected (exploration of an Alien ship, creatures running wild into corridors, etc...) but a remake? Sorry but no.
Nice try.
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Dec 20, 2011, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: Cecil on Dec 20, 2011, 05:39:23 AM
So then that would also contradict Predator 2.
http://modernsophist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/dope-exploding-head.jpg
Scott better make it all weird and mysterious so we cant tell cause if he messed up P2 ...... im out!
Why would Scott have an obligation to not retcon a
gag from another movie?
Because at some point , just like with Star Wars his creation now belongs to the fans. He has an obligation to us, and shouldn't mess up what we have followed for years, if not decades. Fine, don't follow the comics, books, hell even the AVP movies, but at least try to be in line with the Alien and Predator films.
Hopefully this will be part of the Alien Universe, just another branch from the whole Universe. Maybe the SJ are at the core, and the new ALien will just be another creation like the Xenomorph. Who knows, maybe at some point on a sequel both of the Alien creations will croos paths?
I do have faith come the end of the movie he will hint on the creation of the original Aliens
Quote from: Valaquen on Dec 20, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Dec 20, 2011, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: Cecil on Dec 20, 2011, 05:39:23 AM
So then that would also contradict Predator 2.
http://modernsophist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/dope-exploding-head.jpg
Scott better make it all weird and mysterious so we cant tell cause if he messed up P2 ...... im out!
Why would Scott have an obligation to not retcon a gag from another movie?
Scott has no more of an obligation to Predator than he does to Spaceballs.
(i.e. none)
Come on Predator and AVP have nothing in common with the original ALIEN quadrilogy.
Those movies were either just completely different universe for the first and for the second fanboys wet dream cash cows with zero artistic integrity.
Why people keep bringing them in here?
If you take them seriously then any book or comics sanctionned by fox has to be taken into account?
I dont think so.
Alien quadrilogy is its own thing, it's own universe and Prometheus is taking place in it.
The rest has no meaning here.
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 20, 2011, 05:34:56 PM
Come on Predator and AVP have nothing in common with the original ALIEN quadrilogy.
Those movies were either just completely different universe for the first and fanboys wet dream cash cows with zero artistic integrity.
Why people keep bringing them in here?
If you take them seriously then any book or comics sanctionned by fox has to be taken into account?
I dont think so.
Alien quadrilogy is its own thing, it's own universe and Prometheus is taking place in it.
The reste has no meaning here.
There is Alien, There is Predator, There is Alien Vs. Predator... each it's own parallel dimension of one universe and each seperate... nothing wrong with any of them but they should be seperate to their own dimensions...
Agreed.
Love Predator universe for what it is.
I'm less fan of AVP even if i find them to be well done movies.
It's mostly their scripts that sucks major ass.
But ALIEN is it's own thing.
PROMETHEUS comes from ALIEN but it will go on its own way.
In my dojo...there is PROMETHEUS and there is A L I E N. That's it.
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 20, 2011, 05:46:41 PM
Agreed.
Love Predator universe for what it is.
I'm less fan of AVP even if i find them to be well done movies.
It's mostly their scripts that sucks major ass.
Is there really any way in which AvP:R could be described as a well done movie?
People keep bringing it up in here because this is an AvP forum....so it's inevitable.
But, my two cents....the Alien universe is it's own thing...and the AvP films were two-off abominations, a way to make easy cash with tepid talent. The idea of AvP in and of itself is the very definition of mediocrity.
ALIEN began as Scott's baby, he started it and he can take back ownership, period.
I only hope that if this mythos continues in further films, Scott remains as a producer to ensure quality. I love ALIENS but I don't want the epic saga that Prometheus introduces us to to be bastardized and dumbed down for summer fair, of which James Cameron seems to do so well.
Sorry but ALIEN is not more clever than ALIENS.
That you prefer Scott's style and approach to a material doesnt make Cameron actioner approach dumber.
He wrote his own script that expended further the ALIEN universe without betraying it or rehashing it, created great characters and a very neat evolution to Ripley.
I doubt that Scott would have the greatest respect for CAMERON's body of works if he tought it was dumb.
Personal taste is something, being a bit objective sometime is also good.
I don't like everything in Cameron's (he tends to let go some of his harder side, in order to get his movie done betraying sometime his original intentions) but i think he's the only one that makes good big actioner movies that don't insult it's audience.
Sorry for the off topic.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 20, 2011, 03:36:07 AM
If the Aliens were created at the end of prometheus then they wouldn't be around during the present time the AvP movies were set in.
So far as I know, there are no indications that we'll see the Aliens, as we know them, making a first ever appearance in the upcoming film. They'll have still been around for a while before it. Don't see any reason for this one to state otherwise, especially because it'll seem so odd when compared to the fossilised creature's apparent age in the original film.
Quote from: Valaquen on Dec 20, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
Why would Scott have an obligation to not retcon a gag from another movie?
It was never intended as a joke. Just a cameo reference.
I'm sure there was some sort of implication somewhere that the events of Prometheus led to the creation of Aliens are we know them.
It was from what i know the original prequel plan.
With the Derelict crashing in the end on LV426.
But now not so sure.
37 years to get to that fosilised Space Jockey seems to short to me (but there is this theory that since it's only a suit it could get to that state faster when the user dies).
In my mind since Scott dont want to go back to the old facehugger and xeno, the xenos are an old weapon already in use for eons.
And that PROMETHEUS will se the birth of a whole new monster or monsters...
And by the way Scott is mocking the original xeno he seems sure to have something pretty scary in his sleeves.
That would be fantastic. A whole new direction in a familar world.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 20, 2011, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Dec 20, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
Why would Scott have an obligation to not retcon a gag from another movie?
It was never intended as a joke. Just a cameo reference.
Interchangeable terms for me, personally.
I didn't mean Cameron was actually dumb...FYI... 'dumbing down' means something a bit different.
;)
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 20, 2011, 06:32:23 PM
And by the way Scott is mocking the original xeno he seems sure to have something pretty scary in his sleeves.
Let's wait and see. Gale Anne Hurd said the creature in '
The Relic' was going to be a lot scarier than the Alien and we know how that turned out. ;)
Quote from: Valaquen on Dec 20, 2011, 06:35:41 PM
Interchangeable terms for me, personally.
One's done expressly for the purposes of humour, the other is meant to be taken seriously. :)
It was a lingering shot, not fleeting and done in the serious most possible way. Even Stan Winston was proud of and thought it was a rather evocative idea. No-one involved has ever hinted at it being in any way done to evoke humour. Just a scene which was meant to fire the viewer's imagination.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 20, 2011, 09:35:20 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Dec 20, 2011, 06:35:41 PM
Interchangeable terms for me, personally.
One's done expressly for the purposes of humour, the other is meant to be taken seriously. :)
It was a lingering shot, not fleeting and done in the serious most possible way. Even Stan Winston was proud of and thought it was a rather evocative idea. No-one involved has ever hinted at it being in any way done to evoke humour. Just a scene which was meant to fire the viewer's imagination.
I understand your definition, I just don't really ascribe to it. A gag can be a nod, serious or not, that breaks the fourth wall and winks at the viewer. That's how I saw it, is all.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Dec 20, 2011, 09:35:20 PM
Quote from: Engineer1 on Dec 20, 2011, 06:32:23 PM
And by the way Scott is mocking the original xeno he seems sure to have something pretty scary in his sleeves.
Let's wait and see. Gale Anne Hurd said the creature in 'The Relic' was going to be a lot scarier than the Alien and we know how that turned out. ;)
As much as i respect GAH she's a producer she NEEDS to have a hit to make her money back, an nobody remember what those people say so they dont have any reputation to protect.
Scott gets his money whatever the movie makes, and get the good or bad rep if he fails or succeed.
He has more to lose if he's bragging and got nothing to back it up.
He do seem pretty confident to me... But he always seems confident with his big cigar lol
read just about every thread about prometheus on the forum.
very excited about the film.
nobody said what i would have said so i signed up to say it... haha
the first alien film is the only [real] alien film to me. one reason being it was a very spiritual and psychological film. the monster wasnt just an alien or an animal. it was an idea. the whole thing revolved around sexual fear and ripley's reluctance to marry or have children [her lack of a love interest and lack of feminine qualities as is contrasted by lambert]
the film worked so well because it wasnt about an alien. it was about human psychology and it raped the minds of the viewers and touched them in ways few things ever have. and the religious references/spiritual references were there as well. [although im not sure how much of them were intended].
the alien was very much a demon and the ship was a host body.
but i didnt come here to write a full analysis of my thoughts, i came to say that i completely agree with ridley scott when he [ripley/ridley?] says that this film will not have the alien and will not take from any film but the first one. in my opinion the alien as it should be only existed in the first one. and to have it outside the confines of the ship [the subconscious] would make it ineffective.
the new film is religious because if he does this one on the same themes as the first it will be fully psychological and use aliens and space ships only as metaphors. not really as concrete things that can be cloned as sequels. [hence why the alien sequels always never hit near the mark of what the first one represented]
and i guess my final point [if i have one, im sup way past my bed time lol] is that if the space jockeys and aliens are different from what is expected you should try thinking about them less in the vein of substance and more in the vein of the metaphorical and symbolic. if this film is anywhere near as complex as the first one then there may be a ton of things that wont look right from a glance but in the context of the story may be f**king brilliant.
i hope that made sense and i didnt mispell anything. lol. carry on! thanks for the reading material. i enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions.
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Dec 23, 2011, 07:09:32 AM
read just about every thread about prometheus on the forum.
very excited about the film.
nobody said what i would have said so i signed up to say it... haha
the first alien film is the only [real] alien film to me. one reason being it was a very spiritual and psychological film. the monster wasnt just an alien or an animal. it was an idea. the whole thing revolved around sexual fear and ripley's reluctance to marry or have children [her lack of a love interest and lack of feminine qualities as is contrasted by lambert]
the film worked so well because it wasnt about an alien. it was about human psychology and it raped the minds of the viewers and touched them in ways few things ever have. and the religious references/spiritual references were there as well. [although im not sure how much of them were intended].
the alien was very much a demon and the ship was a host body.
but i didnt come here to write a full analysis of my thoughts, i came to say that i completely agree with ridley scott when he [ripley/ridley?] says that this film will not have the alien and will not take from any film but the first one. in my opinion the alien as it should be only existed in the first one. and to have it outside the confines of the ship [the subconscious] would make it ineffective.
the new film is religious because if he does this one on the same themes as the first it will be fully psychological and use aliens and space ships only as metaphors. not really as concrete things that can be cloned as sequels. [hence why the alien sequels always never hit near the mark of what the first one represented]
and i guess my final point [if i have one, im sup way past my bed time lol] is that if the space jockeys and aliens are different from what is expected you should try thinking about them less in the vein of substance and more in the vein of the metaphorical and symbolic. if this film is anywhere near as complex as the first one then there may be a ton of things that wont look right from a glance but in the context of the story may be f**king brilliant.
i hope that made sense and i didnt mispell anything. lol. carry on! thanks for the reading material. i enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions.
Hi, welcome to the forum. :)
It's nice that you got so much from watching Alien but very little, if anything, of what you mentioned was intended by the writers or director. Also, as fantastic as Alien is (it's my favourite film of all time), I don't really think that it can be described as a "complex" film. It's really a by the numbers b-movie horror film in terms of plot but executed with great skill.
Alien was a C-movie dressed in an A-movies clothing. I didn't say that, the director did. It's interesting that you got so many messages out of the film, but it's all honestly subjective and serendipitous. They didn't intend for any of that, and they've frequently said so. Welcome to the forum, Weezus :)
Quote from: zuzuki on Dec 19, 2011, 01:09:47 AM
because the only contact humans had with the space jcokey was on lv 426.
And you know this how exactly? This is fiction, not documentary. If Ridley Scott decides that for the sake of the plot a Space Jockey needs to set up an ice cream store in Brighton and start giving lectures to local children, he can.
Quote
in conclusion they can present in this movie whatever they want,but this is got to be the only time humans actually interact with the space jockey and his culture.or if they plan a sequel,it has to take place before the first alien.
Again why? The crew of the Nostromo weren't scientists, they were working class stiffs. Theres no reason why they would know about any contact with the Space Jockeys race. The following films don't even mention the big giant alien sat in the derelict.
QuoteBecause at some point , just like with Star Wars his creation now belongs to the fans. He has an obligation to us,
Ridley Scott owes us diddly squat.
As for the skull in 'Predator 2', i always viewed it as being used for the same reason why 'Evil Dead' features a 'Hills Have Eyes' poster in the shed, and why the kids are watching 'Evil Dead' in 'Nightmare on Elm Street'.
There is a tradition amongst horror film makers to have something from another film featured, usually either torn up or dead. The message is meant to be "if you thought that was scary...our thing is even scarier!".
The Alien skull was in the Predator ship to inform the audience that as terrible a foe the Alien was, Predators are even worse, not as an indirect way of joining the two franchises.
Quote from: Spider-pope on Dec 24, 2011, 08:26:14 PM
Quote from: zuzuki on Dec 19, 2011, 01:09:47 AM
because the only contact humans had with the space jcokey was on lv 426.
And you know this how exactly? This is fiction, not documentary. If Ridley Scott decides that for the sake of the plot a Space Jockey needs to set up an ice cream store in Brighton and start giving lectures to local children, he can.
Quote
in conclusion they can present in this movie whatever they want,but this is got to be the only time humans actually interact with the space jockey and his culture.or if they plan a sequel,it has to take place before the first alien.
Again why? The crew of the Nostromo weren't scientists, they were working class stiffs. Theres no reason why they would know about any contact with the Space Jockeys race. The following films don't even mention the big giant alien sat in the derelict.
QuoteBecause at some point , just like with Star Wars his creation now belongs to the fans. He has an obligation to us,
Ridley Scott owes us diddly squat.
As for the skull in 'Predator 2', i always viewed it as being used for the same reason why 'Evil Dead' features a 'Hills Have Eyes' poster in the shed, and why the kids are watching 'Evil Dead' in 'Nightmare on Elm Street'.
There is a tradition amongst horror film makers to have something from another film featured, usually either torn up or dead. The message is meant to be "if you thought that was scary...our thing is even scarier!".
The Alien skull was in the Predator ship to inform the audience that as terrible a foe the Alien was, Predators are even worse, not as an indirect way of joining the two franchises.
But in a comic book , or video game form , this joining of two different species worked quite very well...
Quote from: psychonaut25 on Dec 24, 2011, 09:46:14 PM
But in a comic book , or video game form , this joining of two different species worked quite very well...
Fans like to speculate on small things like an Alien skull on a Predator ship. When you have fans with creative talent getting ideas, it can either lead to greatness - the AvP comics and games - or awfulness - the AvP films, Robocop Vs. Terminator - but its usually never the intention of the person who stuck that homage in the film in the first place.
Quote from: Spider-pope on Dec 24, 2011, 08:26:14 PM
Ridley Scott owes us diddly squat.
As for the skull in 'Predator 2', i always viewed it as being used for the same reason why 'Evil Dead' features a 'Hills Have Eyes' poster in the shed, and why the kids are watching 'Evil Dead' in 'Nightmare on Elm Street'.
There is a tradition amongst horror film makers to have something from another film featured, usually either torn up or dead. The message is meant to be "if you thought that was scary...our thing is even scarier!".
The Alien skull was in the Predator ship to inform the audience that as terrible a foe the Alien was, Predators are even worse, not as an indirect way of joining the two franchises.
They are featured as "easter eggs" you are reading to much into this... Some fun "nod" to another movie for the audience to pick out.
Hi all, new here. Been dying to talk more about Prometheus, really looking forward to it. I loved all the films, especially Alien and dare I say it Alien3.
The Prometheus trailer was incredible.
I have a feeling the Space Jockey is one of the Prometheus crew, either one of the infected, or possibly Rapace or perhaps Theron? maybe even Fassbender.
I hope it is a different Derelict type Ship, as the Space Jockey room doesn't match the original too well. Even if it was abandoned for millenia.
I think time plays a big role in this film.
Quote from: Infinite on Dec 28, 2011, 03:59:32 PM
Hi all, new here. Been dying to talk more about Prometheus, really looking forward to it. I loved all the films, especially Alien and dare I say it Alien3.
The Prometheus trailer was incredible.
I have a feeling the Space Jockey is one of the Prometheus crew, either one of the infected, or possibly Rapace or perhaps Theron? maybe even Fassbender.
I hope it is a different Derelict type Ship, as the Space Jockey room doesn't match the original too well. Even if it was abandoned for millenia.
I think time plays a big role in this film.
i think not, as a rumor is around that ian whyte will be involved, as one engineer, creator, or god, the real space jockey will not be one of the crew members
Basically the plot of this film is religion vs. science. That being said.... how many creatures the did space jockeys create? They created us, and the alien. What else?
Everything looks like a Alien prequel, Wayland Yutani, when the spaceship crash the place looks alot with LV-426, the space jockey in Alien, I mean WTF how this is not a Alien prequel, I'ts like spielberg made a movie about dinossaurs in a island, with all the jeeps with jurassic park logo and he speak the movie dosen't have nothing to do with Jurassic Park.
I'll be really sad if this movie don't tell me nothing about the Xeno that we know.
Quote from: St_Eddie on Dec 24, 2011, 05:25:47 PM
[
Hi, welcome to the forum. :)
It's nice that you got so much from watching Alien but very little, if anything, of what you mentioned was intended by the writers or director. Also, as fantastic as Alien is (it's my favourite film of all time), I don't really think that it can be described as a "complex" film. It's really a by the numbers b-movie horror film in terms of plot but executed with great skill.
super glad my first post attracted its only reply from someone that obviously was on set when the movie was filmed and talked to everyone involved!
thats amazing!
Cant wait to read more of your posts!
It IS an Alien prequel, without the classic aliens. I think this has been established for some time ;)
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Dec 23, 2011, 07:09:32 AM
read just about every thread about prometheus on the forum.
very excited about the film.
nobody said what i would have said so i signed up to say it... haha
the first alien film is the only [real] alien film to me. one reason being it was a very spiritual and psychological film. the monster wasnt just an alien or an animal. it was an idea. the whole thing revolved around sexual fear and ripley's reluctance to marry or have children [her lack of a love interest and lack of feminine qualities as is contrasted by lambert]
the film worked so well because it wasnt about an alien. it was about human psychology and it raped the minds of the viewers and touched them in ways few things ever have. and the religious references/spiritual references were there as well. [although im not sure how much of them were intended].
the alien was very much a demon and the ship was a host body.
but i didnt come here to write a full analysis of my thoughts, i came to say that i completely agree with ridley scott when he [ripley/ridley?] says that this film will not have the alien and will not take from any film but the first one. in my opinion the alien as it should be only existed in the first one. and to have it outside the confines of the ship [the subconscious] would make it ineffective.
the new film is religious because if he does this one on the same themes as the first it will be fully psychological and use aliens and space ships only as metaphors. not really as concrete things that can be cloned as sequels. [hence why the alien sequels always never hit near the mark of what the first one represented]
and i guess my final point [if i have one, im sup way past my bed time lol] is that if the space jockeys and aliens are different from what is expected you should try thinking about them less in the vein of substance and more in the vein of the metaphorical and symbolic. if this film is anywhere near as complex as the first one then there may be a ton of things that wont look right from a glance but in the context of the story may be f**king brilliant.
i hope that made sense and i didnt mispell anything. lol. carry on! thanks for the reading material. i enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions.
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 04, 2012, 02:15:22 PM
Quote from: St_Eddie on Dec 24, 2011, 05:25:47 PM
[
Hi, welcome to the forum. :)
It's nice that you got so much from watching Alien but very little, if anything, of what you mentioned was intended by the writers or director. Also, as fantastic as Alien is (it's my favourite film of all time), I don't really think that it can be described as a "complex" film. It's really a by the numbers b-movie horror film in terms of plot but executed with great skill.
super glad my first post attracted its only reply from someone that obviously was on set when the movie was filmed and talked to everyone involved!
thats amazing!
Cant wait to read more of your posts!
Weezus, your obviously put some thought and time into your post, and for people who want to read a deeper meaning into just about anything, then it certainly resonates.
However, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
And while I can understand the position (by many) that a lot of imagery and subtext in ALIEN involves sexual themes as well as rape...I think much of it has been over-blown in the months and years after the film was released. I think that Ridley is even guilty of some of the revisionist interpretations. I don't get the "religious" references you seem to find in the first film, however. It always struck me as a pretty secular film, all and all.
Again, as cited numerous times, Prometheus isn't out to answer everything in Alien...rather it's a spin-off prequel tied more to the Space Jockey race then anything else. Personally I don't need to know how Ash knew what he did. I'd like mystery to be left in the film.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 04, 2012, 09:14:15 PM
Again, as cited numerous times, Prometheus isn't out to answer everything in Alien...rather it's a spin-off prequel tied more to the Space Jockey race then anything else. Personally I don't need to know how Ash knew what he did. I'd like mystery to be left in the film.
I think that part of the allure of any mystery though is that there is a chance it can be solved. I guess the desire to know and not to know is a personal thing as you put it. Do you also prefer not to know how the egg got on the Sulaco in Alien3?
Equating your last question with my assertion about needing to know how Ash knew what he knew is a stretch. Logic is entirely a different path. Everything should work logically (to some degree). The egg in the Sulaco needs a logical answer, and we're hard pressed to find one. The Ash knowledge issue has nothing to do with logic. We watched the events unfold on the Nostromo, and not Ash's personal history from before he arrived. It's a separate history.
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 04, 2012, 02:15:22 PM
Quote from: St_Eddie on Dec 24, 2011, 05:25:47 PM
[
Hi, welcome to the forum. :)
It's nice that you got so much from watching Alien but very little, if anything, of what you mentioned was intended by the writers or director. Also, as fantastic as Alien is (it's my favourite film of all time), I don't really think that it can be described as a "complex" film. It's really a by the numbers b-movie horror film in terms of plot but executed with great skill.
super glad my first post attracted its only reply from someone that obviously was on set when the movie was filmed and talked to everyone involved!
thats amazing!
Cant wait to read more of your posts!
There's no need to be a sarcastic git! Afterall, I did welcome you to the forum! :'(
There's nothing wrong with making your own interpretations when watching a film. Heck, that's partly what makes film such a fascinating medium but I don't think you should assume that your own personal interpretations were intended by the filmmakers, especially when there's been countless interviews with the filmmakers and not one has backed up your interpretations.
If you're really adamant that your personal thoughts are in line with the intent of the filmmakers then perhaps I should point you towards your own sarcastic wit...
Super glad that you're someone that obviously was on set when the movie was filmed and talked to everyone involved!
thats amazing!
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 04, 2012, 09:39:02 PMThe Ash knowledge issue has nothing to do with logic. We watched the events unfold on the Nostromo, and not Ash's personal history from before he arrived. It's a separate history.
If Weyland Corp. was not in the new film at all then it doesn't matter, you can ponder it all you like and it doesn't really affect anything. I agree that Ash's own personal history is unimportant, but he is not acting on his own history, but a company directive, and while some of his decisions could of been informed by his own personality the overarching theme is that he is the puppet of a company order, not the company himself. IMHO this
does require some degree of logic IF you are going to link the company with the alien civilization in a new story that occurs before the original events, which is what they have done.
And the egg on the Sulaco sprouted hands and walked there, kinda like the monster from Dark Star. It's all linked! ;D
-Chris
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Jan 04, 2012, 10:24:58 PM
... the egg on the Sulaco sprouted hands and walked there, kinda like the monster from Dark Star. It's all linked! ;D
Thanks for the mental image of Ripley hitting an egg with a broom! :laugh:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.badmovies.org%2Fmovies%2Fdarkstar%2Fdarkstar4.jpg&hash=a342f7e73dc03208ae8cf119562f67f901e816cc)
Quote from: EEV-2501 on Jan 04, 2012, 10:41:59 PMhttp://www.badmovies.org/movies/darkstar/darkstar4.jpg
Eeeesh.
-Chris
Quote from: St_Eddie on Jan 04, 2012, 10:20:18 PM
especially when there's been countless interviews with the filmmakers and not one has backed up your interpretations.
actually they have done just that thing several times. not to mention the writer of the story has said...to paraphrase because im too lazy after lunch to copy paste the exact quote "this is a film about interspecies rape and taps into the male's fear of being orally raped"
dan o bannon also recommended giger for the art direction exactly for that reason. to say that there is nothing backing up my claim is to deny pretty much the entire film. lol
for a few things just off the bat the ship is called "mother" and the smaller ship detaches from the "umbilicus"
thats not counting the womb-like space jockey chamber and round womb-like area with an almost identical single person room in the "mother" console room.
then theres the inside of the ship being womb-like with soft flesh tones and no sharp edges and a nice humming sound as opposed to the ship's innards which were cold, sharp and filled with threatening sounds.
then theres the facehugger, a play on a doctor's hands grabbing a baby's head as it leaves a womb, another birth trauma point.
the alien's feminine body and penile head are so obvious they dont even need mentioning...
when ash tries to mimic the facehugger by shoving a magazine down ripley's throat she grabs at something that mimics one of those toy-dangly-things in a crib. the magazine is also a porno.
when the crew awaken from a womb-like room they are all wearing diapers...
the vaginal entrances to the derelict ship...
the xenomorph makes sounds that are eerily similar to a baby crying.
the entire film was meant to be cerebral and get in people's heads. no good director or producer explains every detail of their film, any successful work of art leaves itself intentionally vague to allow people to color in the lines of how they see it, but these are all things that work in tandem regardless of interpretation.
im actually getting bored of typing but the list goes on and on. i agree that alot of things can be speculated on as far as the film goes, which is why i enjoy it but thats all me just stating the obvious sets and motif of the film.
theres more going on as far as a religious undertone but im thats quite possibly just a coincidence and im still 'collating' about my thoughts on it. the alien was the son of the cain, which was a name chosen specifically, as well as the fact that cain was played by a man best known for his role as a drag queen in a film that was recently released before alien. also an intentional move by the director to tap into the sexual designs of the homosexual alien rape thing going on.
i could go on but im pretty sure its pointless... it certainly was not a by the numbers haunted house space film although it does have the appearance of one.
sorry for being sarcastic, i write long winded things and then get "NUH-UH" as a reply and i dont even see the point in a response at all. you have my attention, feel free to do something interesting with it. im all eyes. haha
excuse the rambling, im trying to stay awake and a bit coffeed out and kind of delirious haha
Quotethe alien was the son of the cain, which was a name chosen specifically, as well as the fact that cain was played by a man best known for his role as a drag queen in a film that was recently released before alien. also an intentional move by the director to tap into the sexual designs of the homosexual alien rape thing going on.
Most of the crew were named for baseball players (except for Ripley, who was named after the rather obvious "Ripley's Believe It Or Not," according to Walter Hill). John Hurt wasn't hired due to any drag queen role, but because the original Kane actor was too ill to continue, and Hurt was luckily nearby. Scott drove over to Hurt's house and pitched the movie, and Hurt started the next day. So no "intentional move by the director" to tap into anything. You can say that you feel this is the case, but don't put motives into Scott's hands. It's documented to not be the case.
"Hurt was Scott's first choice for the role"
-wikipedia.
and with that im done. i realized i shouldnt post anything at all without backing it up, but i feel like im wasting my time when even a quick wiki search to check your information would have yielded the same results.
if anyone wishes to contend with my ideas please post sources. thank you.
The wiki report is quite frankly....wrong, as is so much on the internet. I'm reading A L I E N vault and it also backs up the claim that John Hurt was a last minute addition to the film.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 06:14:34 PM
The wiki report is quite frankly....wrong, as is so much on the internet. I'm reading A L I E N vault and it also backs up the claim that John Hurt was a last minute addition to the film.
That is correct.
Taken from the following Alien blog:
http://alienseries.blogspot.com/2011/03/principle-players-cast-character.html (http://alienseries.blogspot.com/2011/03/principle-players-cast-character.html)
Quote'I had cast Jon Finch, who was Polanski's Macbeth, as Kane. First day, first shot, Jon collapsed. I talked to him and he said, "I'm a diabetic..." He had gone yellow and couldn't get up - we had to lift him out of the scene. He was fine, but he had to recuperate. He hadn't taken his insulin and was drinking too much Coca-Cola. That night we looked at the book and came across John Hurt, who I have always liked. John lived in Hampstead, so we called and I drove up there. We sat down with a drink. I said, "Do you want to do this?" He said, "Yeah... I trust you, when do I start?" "Tomorrow morning, a car will come for you."'
-- Ridley Scott, Empire magazine, 2009
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi18.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb126%2FDeuterium%2FJonFinch.jpg&hash=212d80098b725f305eb2f61c68562163078cd7a6)
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 06, 2012, 05:55:10 PM
"Hurt was Scott's first choice for the role"
-wikipedia.
and with that im done. i realized i shouldnt post anything at all without backing it up, but i feel like im wasting my time when even a quick wiki search to check your information would have yielded the same results.
if anyone wishes to contend with my ideas please post sources. thank you.
Wiki is wrong, sorry. Jon Finch was the first choice, and even filmed scenes. There are differing accounts of how long Finch spent on the film, but Hurt was a last moment addition. Sources have been cited by other posters, including one who posted an article from my own blog. Brian Johnson said that Finch first had troubles when the crew tried to make a cast of him:
'John Finch was the character that John Hurt took over. And John Finch went into the sculptor's place to have his life mask done, and he hadn't told anybody he was a diabetic, and we had to discover while he was inside his life mask. And he actually passed out. And they went, "okay John," and there was no response. And they got the ambulance out there and dragged him out. Because he hadn't declared that on his insurance, the company couldn't go on using him.'
Roger Christian [Alien set designer] says Finch shot for a few days:
'
he was there for the first couple of days. He was really trying, and he looked great, actually, as the character. And then he got so ill he just couldn't carry on, and Hurt just took over and Ridley didn't have to re-shoot that much; just the parts with [Finch]'
http://www.shadowlocked.com/2010030984/interviews/roger-christian-interview-part-2.html#finchkane (http://www.shadowlocked.com/2010030984/interviews/roger-christian-interview-part-2.html#finchkane)
Frankly, yes, it does feel like a waste of time when a quick search to check your information would reveal the same results.
Quote from: Valaquen on Jan 06, 2012, 06:48:04 PM
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 06, 2012, 05:55:10 PM
"Hurt was Scott's first choice for the role"
-wikipedia.
and with that im done. i realized i shouldnt post anything at all without backing it up, but i feel like im wasting my time when even a quick wiki search to check your information would have yielded the same results.
if anyone wishes to contend with my ideas please post sources. thank you.
Wiki is wrong, sorry. Jon Finch was the first choice, and even filmed scenes. There are differing accounts of how long Finch spent on the film, but Hurt was a last moment addition. Sources have been cited by other posters, including one who posted an article from my own blog. Brian Johnson said that Finch first had troubles when the crew tried to make a cast of him: 'John Finch was the character that John Hurt took over. And John Finch went into the sculptor's place to have his life mask done, and he hadn't told anybody he was a diabetic, and we had to discover while he was inside his life mask. And he actually passed out. And they went, "okay John," and there was no response. And they got the ambulance out there and dragged him out. Because he hadn't declared that on his insurance, the company couldn't go on using him.'
Roger Christian [Alien set designer] says Finch shot for a few days:
'he was there for the first couple of days. He was really trying, and he looked great, actually, as the character. And then he got so ill he just couldn't carry on, and Hurt just took over and Ridley didn't have to re-shoot that much; just the parts with [Finch]'
http://www.shadowlocked.com/2010030984/interviews/roger-christian-interview-part-2.html#finchkane (http://www.shadowlocked.com/2010030984/interviews/roger-christian-interview-part-2.html#finchkane)
Frankly, yes, it does feel like a waste of time when a quick search to check your information would reveal the same results.
Weyland-Yutani was responsible for replacing Finch with Hurt a couple days before the Nostromo was set to leave for Earth ;-)
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Jan 06, 2012, 07:19:40 PM
Weyland-Yutani was responsible for replacing Finch with Hurt a couple days before the Nostromo was set to leave for Earth ;-)
...and what's the betting neither Lambert nor Ripley had sex with him?
Let me start this by saying I have immense respect for James Cameron as a director of spectacle, and solid story telling. I love a lot of his films. As I continue to ponder Prometheus until I see it, I realize that we're going to get a film Cameron could probably never deliver. Ridley Scott has never shied away from anything, and the two science fiction films that he's given us easily dance between bleak hopelessness and hyper realism, something that Cameron has never been able to achieve. THIS ISN'T A DIG AT CAMERON....rather, what I'm saying is that I don't think there is anyone suited better to return to the alien universe then Scott, hands down. Quite frankly, I don't want James Cameron touching a Prometheus sequel, ever. It's not that I think he wouldn't Make a great film, but that he would again stray from harder more direct/real story telling, opting for a summer blockbuster instead of a horror infused intelligent science fiction head scratcher.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 11:27:20 PM
Let me start this by saying I have immense respect for James Cameron as a director of spectacle, and solid story telling. I love a lot of his films. As I continue to ponder Prometheus until I see it, I realize that we're going to get a film Cameron could probably never deliver. Ridley Scott has never shied away from anything, and the two science fiction films that he's given us easily dance between bleak hopelessness and hyper realism, something that Cameron has never been able to achieve. THIS ISN'T A DIG AT CAMERON....rather, what I'm saying is that I don't think there is anyone suited better to return to the alien universe then Scott, hands down. Quite frankly, I don't want James Cameron touching a Prometheus sequel, ever. It's not that I think he wouldn't Make a great film, but that he would again stray from harder more direct/real story telling, opting for a summer blockbuster instead of a horror infused intelligent science fiction head scratcher.
I completely understand what you are saying but I also think that it might be a little presumptuous too. Cameron really did expand the universe more than any other writer/director that has done so far. Whether or not that will change with Ridley's involvement in the prequel remains to be seen. One could also argue that without
Aliens,
Alien would be a far less recognized film because both films compliment each other so well.
To be honest, I really wouldn't be surprised if Cameron did tackle a sequel to
Prometheus. It was Cameron, afterall, who inspired Ridley to go back into Sci-Fi and shoot
Prometheus in 3D...after Ridley saw what Cameron had done/was doing with
Avatar. It's odd but, in a way, one could argue that Prometheus already owes something of itself to James Cameron.
I think Cameron would be a good choice to make a sequel to
Prometheus.
Yeah, Ridley might not have got back to him after agreeing to do an 'Alien 5' together, but they still, nevertheless, did agree to collaborate. I think the deal was meant to be Ridley producing and directing the first, then Cameron directing the next. They evidently saw eye to eye on a creative level during those private talks.
And don't forget, Cameron deliberately went and filmed the Jordans entering the derelict. If there had been the budget for it, I don't doubt he would have attempted to recreate the interior with just as much impressive attention to detail as he did for the shuttle (most people don't even realise Ripley's harpoon is by the door).
I bet Cameron get's a shot a the sequel to Prometheus.
I think my post was misunderstood in totality. It's not that I don't think Cameron could make a witty and thrilling sequel to Prometheus, it's that he would turn what might turn out to be complex and intelligent science fiction into a testosterone summer blockbuster negating the larger mythos. I base this off of ALIENS and how the mystery that Scott created, Cameron left behind, by nature of his instincts as a writer/director. Cameron doesn't have the grit of of Scott, they don't tell the same kind of stories. Scott directs with a bit of danger, Cameron is completely safe for the most part.
I don't want to see a safe Prometheus sequel.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 11:27:20 PM
Let me start this by saying I have immense respect for James Cameron as a director of spectacle, and solid story telling. I love a lot of his films. As I continue to ponder Prometheus until I see it, I realize that we're going to get a film Cameron could probably never deliver. Ridley Scott has never shied away from anything, and the two science fiction films that he's given us easily dance between bleak hopelessness and hyper realism, something that Cameron has never been able to achieve. THIS ISN'T A DIG AT CAMERON....rather, what I'm saying is that I don't think there is anyone suited better to return to the alien universe then Scott, hands down. Quite frankly, I don't want James Cameron touching a Prometheus sequel, ever. It's not that I think he wouldn't Make a great film, but that he would again stray from harder more direct/real story telling, opting for a summer blockbuster instead of a horror infused intelligent science fiction head scratcher.
To me that is absolute nonsense, Camerons films such as Terminator 1 and 2 and Aliens are grounded in reality which explore science fiction. Aliens is perfectly respectable film, which Cameron took in the logical direction with a good story, and told it well. The guy respected Scotts original and built upon it, by giving the audience the ultimate sci fi horror MORE aliens and he notched the pace up a gear too. I mean LV426 was so barren the wind blowing, colonist vehicles scattered about, doors flapping in the wind.Once inside cameron uses the element of silence and abandonment to make the viewer feel very uneasy. Where are the colonists? where are the xenomorphs? how many are there? what actually happened? The military elements of it cameron got spot on, and bishops character was very well written because cameron takes advantage of what we saw androids are capable of in alien, and he also develops Ripleys uneasiness around bishop. Cameron never overexposes the xenomorphs, he keeps the scenes tightly shot and what he done with the face huggers was great giving us a claustrophobic feel. I would love to see Cameron direct a prometheus sequel, he would take it in a different direction and give us something that would scare the living daylights out've us but also make us think. which is what he done with aliens. What your chatting about Cameron is absolute nonsense, he helped define the horror sci fi genre of the 80's with his hard work, just as Scott did with alien in 1979, and i actually prefer alien over aliens but i still acknowledge caeron is amazing, what you're saying is absolutely 'pedestrian', end of. So acknowledge cameron for the genius he is, not derogatory nonsense.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 07, 2012, 04:55:56 AM
I think my post was misunderstood in totality. It's not that I don't think Cameron could make a witty and thrilling sequel to Prometheus, it's that he would turn what might turn out to be complex and intelligent science fiction into a testosterone summer blockbuster negating the larger mythos. I base this off of ALIENS and how the mystery that Scott created, Cameron left behind, by nature of his instincts as a writer/director. Cameron doesn't have the grit of of Scott, they don't tell the same kind of stories. Scott directs with a bit of danger, Cameron is completely safe for the most part.
I don't want to see a safe Prometheus sequel.
Cameron took a massive risk introducing the alien queen, so that's not safe it's very ballsy, i think you need to watch aliens again and the terminator films again and appreciate cameron for the great director he is.
Again, I'm being completely misunderstood. I have much respect for Cameron, absolutely, but he's not making the kind of films he used to...ALIENS was great, a fantastic film, but void of the mystery of ALIEN that Scott introduced. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, it's just a different....very different direction.
Scott directs with a bit more abandon, he isn't as safe as Cameron is these days. Again, Prometheus deserves a sequel that's just as dangerous as the film appears to hint at. But maybe that's all just complete nonsense :)
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 07, 2012, 04:55:56 AM
I think my post was misunderstood in totality. It's not that I don't think Cameron could make a witty and thrilling sequel to Prometheus, it's that he would turn what might turn out to be complex and intelligent science fiction into a testosterone summer blockbuster negating the larger mythos. I base this off of ALIENS and how the mystery that Scott created, Cameron left behind, by nature of his instincts as a writer/director. Cameron doesn't have the grit of of Scott, they don't tell the same kind of stories. Scott directs with a bit of danger, Cameron is completely safe for the most part.
I don't want to see a safe Prometheus sequel.
And what do you call things like '
GI Jane', '
Black Hawk Down' and '
Gladiator'? :)
Oh, but Scott is just as capable of putting in blockbusters with a superficial vibe in parts as anyone else. Just because they're well-crafted, doesn't mean they're not deliberately aimed at the blockbuster market.
Personally, I felt things like '
Kingdom Of Heaven' and '
Robin Hood' felt dull and uninteresting. They didn't engage me in their characters and Ridley Scott going for Orlando Bloom, of all people, as someone who was meant to come across as a leader of men... Ugh. No. That struck me as insane.
No, I think they've both got things in common and have, in a sense, perhaps even both learnt from one another (and don't forget Cameron's private screening of '
Avatar' was what apparently convinced Scott to make '
Prometheus' in 3D - they're definitely friends and speak to one another).
Remember, the director, himself, has said that this film is aiming to deliberately be "epic". That doesn't infers a purposeful aim at the blockbuster market, not the artistic mystery demographic.
'
Aliens' was never trying to be '
Alien', but that doesn't mean to say it wasn't extremely dark and, yes, mysterious in places. The scenes of wandering through the colony and finding nothing but gaping holes caused by acid and "no bodies" comes to mind - as does visiting the nursery chamber and, later, the Queen's reveal. Then, later, when the extra scenes were added, the discovery of the derelict. Cameron knew how to play on the fears and expectations of an audience which knew, in advance, what those clues meant, without diminishing their atmospheric
value.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jan 07, 2012, 06:09:47 AM
'Aliens' was never trying to be 'Alien', but that doesn't mean to say it wasn't extremely dark and, yes, mysterious in places. The scenes of wandering through the colony and finding nothing but gaping holes caused by acid and "no bodies" comes to mind - as does visiting the nursery chamber and, later, the Queen's reveal. Then, later, when the extra scenes were added, the discovery of the derelict. Cameron knew how to play on the fears and expectations of an audience which knew, in advance, what those clues meant, without diminishing their atmospheric value.
Aye!
I think Avatar's success and popularity has overshadowed Cameron's work on Terminator, Aliens, The Abyss, and T2, somehow. Those are very gritty films, possibly with the exception of T2, which has more polish but is no less dark and speculative [the first film was about pre-determination - but can you change your future? Should you try? Should you kill one man to save billions? Do we morally abide by deontology or consequentialism? what makes us human?] The first Terminator had all sorts of things that were hinted at or speculated which we didn't see; it had a mystery of its own, usually concerning the future war. The first half of The Abyss is quite creepy, especially the scene where they all enter the downed submarine and come across corpses and ... well,
something else that is in there.
Avatar was easy, but Cameron's other sci-fi films are by no means purely summer blockbusters. They do have intellectual qualities to them, which Cameron was consistently praised for in the first half of his career. Films like Titanic and Avatar took that away from him; people were happier to roll their eyes. I'm not accusing ThisBethesdaSea of this, because I think he iterated his point very well, but a lot of Cameron criticism you see online amounts to
ad hominems, and nothing else. He can be criticised but I think the ability to make an intelligent, dark sci-fi is not something he lacks.
[minor point: I thought it was interesting that Scott described Prometheus as an 'epic', that he namechecks Avatar as having raised the bar -these RS and JC guys are friends- and that there's a shot of Noomi in the teaser, pulling the throttle on a vehicle and reversing; a shot that is reminiscent of Ripley in Aliens driving the APC into the Hive.]
Thanks Valaquen, you got it. I would totally agree that Cameron's earlier forays into science fiction were grittier and a bit dangerous, to be sure. ALIENS holds a lot of mystery to it (I've never debated the mystery).
I think underlying problem is with Fox, as theyre the guys who finance these film, they wanted avatar to be pg13, prometheus, every subsequent big blockbuster fox want to play safe, so it's not really the fault of the directors, they have to 'appease' to the execs to get their budgets for these films, so we all make valid points, but a director can only do what his budget allows. I found the abyss an amazing film especially the directors cut, i'm unsure if it's on blu ray in the U.S. but i can't find it here in the U.K.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 06:14:34 PM
The wiki report is quite frankly....wrong, as is so much on the internet. I'm reading A L I E N vault and it also backs up the claim that John Hurt was a last minute addition to the film.
prove it.
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 07, 2012, 03:32:55 PM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 06:14:34 PM
The wiki report is quite frankly....wrong, as is so much on the internet. I'm reading A L I E N vault and it also backs up the claim that John Hurt was a last minute addition to the film.
prove it.
It's been done. Frankly, you're acting the child. Either contribute to the forum or leave.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 07, 2012, 02:41:52 PM
Thanks Valaquen, you got it. I would totally agree that Cameron's earlier forays into science fiction were grittier and a bit dangerous, to be sure. ALIENS holds a lot of mystery to it (I've never debated the mystery).
I was actually disheartened to hear that Cameron was continuing Avatar so suddenly. He had Battle Angel and a Hiroshima film on his plate, but alas.
Quote from: Wobblyboddle77 on Jan 07, 2012, 03:00:17 PM
I think underlying problem is with Fox, as theyre the guys who finance these film, they wanted avatar to be pg13,
FOX only financed around 40% of Avatar (really!) and I think the rating was Cameron's aim. Avatar was called Project 880 before the title was announced, as they aimed to make a film that would encompass the 8-80 year old age gap. But yes, FOX should leave Ridley alone. This is ALIEN (oops, it isn't, but y'know!)
Quote from: Wobblyboddle77 on Jan 07, 2012, 03:00:17 PM
I think underlying problem is with Fox, as theyre the guys who finance these film, they wanted avatar to be pg13,
FOX only financed around 40% of Avatar (really!) and I think the rating was Cameron's aim. Avatar was called Project 880 before the title was announced, as they aimed to make a film that would encompass the 8-80 year old age gap. But yes, FOX should leave Ridley alone. This is ALIEN (oops, it isn't, but y'know!)
[/quote]
Does anyone know how much of Prometheus fox is finanncing then? becuase i know Scott free productions have a hand in prometheus too, but in what context iam unsure, anyone got any ideas?
Very likely, they're financing all of it.
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 07, 2012, 03:32:55 PM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 06:14:34 PM
The wiki report is quite frankly....wrong, as is so much on the internet. I'm reading A L I E N vault and it also backs up the claim that John Hurt was a last minute addition to the film.
prove it.
After the crap you gave me and now this...
I beginning to regret welcoming you to the thread, Mr. Know-it-all-know-nothing.
A bit off topic but....and excuse my naïveté......is the poster we've seen just a teaser/one sheet do you all think?
Quote from: St_Eddie on Jan 07, 2012, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 07, 2012, 03:32:55 PM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 06:14:34 PM
The wiki report is quite frankly....wrong, as is so much on the internet. I'm reading A L I E N vault and it also backs up the claim that John Hurt was a last minute addition to the film.
prove it.
After the crap you gave me and now this...
I beginning to regret welcoming you to the thread, Mr. Know-it-all-know-nothing.
the difference is that i posted ideas for consideration and i got a ton of "NO THATS WRONG" with little or nothing to back it up.
the best retort ive gotten was "the whole internet is wrong, this one book is right and thats proven!"
sorry if i seem rude, like i said im a bit impatient with useless rhetoric and valequer was right, i should probably leave because contributing here is indeed childish of me. i forgot how argumentative and righteous fanboys are.
enjoy your forum. good day!
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 06:14:34 PM
The wiki report is quite frankly....wrong, as is so much on the internet. I'm reading A L I E N vault and it also backs up the claim that John Hurt was a last minute addition to the film.
well these reports are pretty useless without a source , and the Wiki comment seems to come from Beautiful Monsters which has an assortment of mistakes in it, but the writer of that book might have got it right and taken that comment from the Alien Quadrilogy documentary segment "Truckers In Space .>> casting" where John Hurt said was "I had been asked if I'd like to do Alien, but I had already committed to a South African film so that was dropped"
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 07, 2012, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: St_Eddie on Jan 07, 2012, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 07, 2012, 03:32:55 PM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 06:14:34 PM
The wiki report is quite frankly....wrong, as is so much on the internet. I'm reading A L I E N vault and it also backs up the claim that John Hurt was a last minute addition to the film.
prove it.
After the crap you gave me and now this...
I beginning to regret welcoming you to the thread, Mr. Know-it-all-know-nothing.
the difference is that i posted ideas for consideration and i got a ton of "NO THATS WRONG" with little or nothing to back it up.
the best retort ive gotten was "the whole internet is wrong, this one book is right and thats proven!"
sorry if i seem rude, like i said im a bit impatient with useless rhetoric and valequer was right, i should probably leave because contributing here is indeed childish of me. i forgot how argumentative and righteous fanboys are.
enjoy your forum. good day!
What's all this kicking of then? it's usually peaceful here, a few heated discussions but nothing too bad.
Just read Alien Vault myself- someone was cast before Hurt but had to drop out for medical reasons
Quote from: Alienseseses on Jan 08, 2012, 12:36:42 AM
Just read Alien Vault myself- someone was cast before Hurt but had to drop out for medical reasons
But if he took the role of Kane despite the illnes it could be more realistic(alien birth)....
I don't have the book on me, so the details here might be wrong, but I think the original actor was a diabetic and had an emergency on set
Quote from: Alienseseses on Jan 08, 2012, 12:42:21 AM
I don't have the book on me, so the details here might be wrong, but I think the original actor was a diabetic and had an emergency on set
Yes, that was Jon Finch.
I just chucked the alien blu ray on, haven't watched it in a year selected 2003 directors cut. Does prometheus definately take in the zeta 2 reticuli system? If so on the blu ray menu some of the animation shows an illustration of the zeta 2 reticuli system and the planets surrounding it, i wonder if prometheus takes place on one of them?
Hurt was the first choice -- or at least, asked before Finch. Couldn't do it. They got Finch. He got sick, Hurt freed up.
Everybody's right. He was first choice and a late addition. The two aren't mutually exclusive concepts.
Oh yeah- forgot about that part. Thanks.
Was Hurt the first choice? Now that I've never heard....not that it isn't true....was this information in the bluray boxed set?
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 08, 2012, 05:05:40 AM
Was Hurt the first choice? Now that I've never heard....not that it isn't true....was this information in the bluray boxed set?
QuoteJohn Hurt was Ridley Scott's first choice to play Kane in Alien, but Hurt was committed to filming in South Africa and had to turn down the part. Jon Finch, who had risen to fame both as a theatre actor in Britain and in lead roles in Zeffirelli's Romeo And Juliet (1969), Polanski's Macbeth (1970) and Hitchcock's Frenzy (1972), stepped in. On the first day of shooting, Finch fell ill with the cameras on him, appearing to turn yellow and lifeless. Ridley Scott stopped the shot and had to get Finch helped out of his navigator's chair on the Nostromo set. Sent off to hospital, the actor was diagnosed with diabetes. Scott spent that evening talking a now-returned John Hurt into the part at his Hampstead home, and went on to work with Finch again in Kingdom Of Heaven (2005). The shot where Finch fell ill is included, with the actor's permission, on the Alien Quadrilogy extras, though I don't know if that was the only thing he filmed.
http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/196336/7_missing_performances_id_like_to_see.html (http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/196336/7_missing_performances_id_like_to_see.html)
wasn't at the time a confusing between john hurt, the actor & john hurt, politician(?). and that was the reason why he wasn't allowed to go to the set in england?
on the blu-ray set it ws mentiones something like that.
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 07, 2012, 11:53:23 PM
the difference is that i posted ideas for consideration and i got a ton of "NO THATS WRONG" with little or nothing to back it up.
the best retort ive gotten was "the whole internet is wrong, this one book is right and thats proven!"
That is absolutely
not the response you were given. If you can't conduct a dialogue with others, then don't bother. Saves us the trouble.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 08, 2012, 01:43:34 AM
Hurt was the first choice -- or at least, asked before Finch. Couldn't do it. They got Finch. He got sick, Hurt freed up.
Everybody's right. He was first choice and a late addition. The two aren't mutually exclusive concepts.
and that is what everything ive seen has said.
Quote from: Valaquen on Jan 08, 2012, 08:16:41 AM
That is absolutely not the response you were given. If you can't conduct a dialogue with others, then don't bother. Saves us the trouble.
OH REALLY?
Quote from: Valaquen on Jan 07, 2012, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 07, 2012, 03:32:55 PM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 06:14:34 PM
The wiki report is quite frankly....wrong, as is so much on the internet. I'm reading A L I E N vault and it also backs up the claim that John Hurt was a last minute addition to the film.
prove it.
It's been done. Frankly, you're acting the child. Either contribute to the forum or leave.
Super glad to see you ignored the other user's post relating the discussion to go back to insulting my character and telling me to leave.
lol. but yes, PLEASE dont reply to me. I'm tired of your sass.
Weezus... No.
Just no.
Be respectful, please. If you can't do that and keep getting sarcastic/passive-aggressive, then with respect, steps shall be taken.
Banhammer'd. We can all go back to getting along :)
What were we talking about, again? :P
About how this is Mission to Mars but in the Alien universe?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fth295.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm142%2FRikuo86%2FMeme%2Fth_spray_trollface_copy.png&hash=3a896b22b7dc43f80f34bd79164dba60b9c58625)
Quote from: SiL on Jan 08, 2012, 01:43:34 AM
Hurt was the first choice -- or at least, asked before Finch. Couldn't do it. They got Finch. He got sick, Hurt freed up.
Everybody's right. He was first choice and a late addition. The two aren't mutually exclusive concepts.
The only new revelation is that Finch reveals on the Blu-Ray that he wasn't quite suffering from the illness that they thought he was suffering from
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 08, 2012, 05:05:40 AM
Was Hurt the first choice? Now that I've never heard....not that it isn't true....was this information in the bluray boxed set?
It should be found in Disc Five which has the Truckers in Space Documentary
What was he suffering from then? ???
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jan 08, 2012, 01:46:01 PM
About how this is Mission to Mars but in the Alien universe?
http://th295.photobucket.com/albums/mm142/Rikuo86/Meme/th_spray_trollface_copy.png
Mission to mars is quite retarded movie....
Quote from: psychonaut25 on Jan 09, 2012, 12:06:35 AM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jan 08, 2012, 01:46:01 PM
About how this is Mission to Mars but in the Alien universe?
http://th295.photobucket.com/albums/mm142/Rikuo86/Meme/th_spray_trollface_copy.png
Mission to mars is quite retarded movie....
ya but it looked great and had realistic technology.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 08, 2012, 11:26:20 PM
What was he suffering from then? ???
Finch says that after three days he had "an extremely bad bronchile attack" whatever that is.
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Jan 09, 2012, 07:29:37 PM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 08, 2012, 11:26:20 PM
What was he suffering from then? ???
Finch says that after three days he had "an extremely bad bronchile attack" whatever that is.
Asthma.
-Chris
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Jan 09, 2012, 09:48:03 PM
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Jan 09, 2012, 07:29:37 PM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 08, 2012, 11:26:20 PM
What was he suffering from then? ???
Finch says that after three days he had "an extremely bad bronchile attack" whatever that is.
Asthma.
-Chris
and it seemed to be something that he never suffered from before
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Jan 09, 2012, 11:18:16 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Jan 09, 2012, 09:48:03 PM
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Jan 09, 2012, 07:29:37 PM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 08, 2012, 11:26:20 PM
What was he suffering from then? ???
Finch says that after three days he had "an extremely bad bronchile attack" whatever that is.
Asthma.
-Chris
and it seemed to be something that he never suffered from before
Scott and his bloody smoke machines :)
-Chris