Favourite Alien Movie?

[DoomRulz]

It would have ruined the scene. Alien wasn't supposed to be comedic like that. Humour in that film was unintentional, I found. Ash spinning around violently and squealing isn't supposed to be comical because a major revelation occurs, but it just is.

You're the only one who thinks it is, I don't even know how that could even be unintentionally funny.

Ask around. I guarantee I'm not the only who found that scene funny.

[ShadowPred]

BULLSHIT!

[DoomRulz]

Says you, woman.

[ShadowPred]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15cpQD5qEzI#

[DoomRulz]

Says you, woman.

[OmegaZilla]

"Waste'a f**kin' ammo! Must be a chick thing."
"Who do I have to f**k to get off this boat" -- "I can get you off. Maybe not the ship."
"My code is E-A-T-M-E."
"I can't believe I almost had sex with that." - "Yeah, like you never f**ked a robot."

First line just demonstrates (to me, at least) that Johner knows f**k all of the pain Ripley just experienced - he's the kind of character that doesn't care for the others, and that line simply reinforces that he's an asshole. Like, Ripley just experienced and excruciating pain, and he says that??
Second line is sarcasm  - replied with a facepalm worthy statement (and that's part of the character of Johner, he's a cocky asshole)
Elgyn's code isn't anything wrong - and nothing worse than the Marine jokes in Aliens or some lines in Alien3.
Fourth line is, again, part of Johner's character, and sarcasm.
It's very subjective. That's how I see it anyway.

AR doesn't take itself seriously. At all.

And that's for you I guess.
Clones, Newborn, deaths of Elgyn and Christie, 'death' of Call, dialogues between Call and Ripley in the chapel... nah, it doesn't take itself seriously!
Much like photographs, films can inspire different emotions, different thoughts - and what I've said is what Alien: Resurrection inspires me. There's very few things I don't like, and that's why it doesn't get the maximum rating from me. 
Regarding the zoom-in I can agree it feels a bit different from what we've seen before, undoubtely, fact that it is silly on the other hand, not very much. Or, at least, I didn't really think it was.

[SiL]

First line just demonstrates (to me, at least) that Johner knows f**k all of the pain Ripley just experienced - he's the kind of character that doesn't care for the others, and that line simply reinforces that he's an asshole.

Yes -- and in doing so, undermines the mood set up by the scene. As does Call's punching Wren in the face. The movie follows up one of its few emotional sequences with a one-liner clearly intended to draw a laugh from the audience and another quick part intended to make the audience laugh and cheer. Any kind of serious emotional investment is immediately lost.

Intentionally.

That's not a movie taking itself seriously.

Clones, Newborn, deaths of Elgyn and Christie, 'death' of Call, dialogues between Call and Ripley in the chapel... nah, it doesn't take itself seriously!

You're right, it doesn't -- it throws in a one-liner or a lame joke or some forced reference at every opportunity during any scene which might lend the movie a serious tone. At every turn it tries to goad the audience into laughing or cheering when we should be going "Ohshit monsters" or giving a crap about the characters.

Besides, I don't see how the cloning aspect means the movie is taking itself seriously, and the shoddy handling of the Newborn speaks volumes to a tacked-on third-act boss fight "just because".

[OmegaZilla]

Yes -- and in doing so, undermines the mood set up by the scene.

Subjective. For me, makes only the character an asshole. We are shown prior that Johner is - and that's only a reinforcement.

As does Call's punching Wren in the face.

Not anything worse than Ripley punching one of the prisoners after they attempted to rape her in Alien3. That was supposed to take a laugh as well - as other moments in the film are, like Andrews' demise, or the jokes between the Prisoners. Does that mean the film does not take itself seriously?

when we should be going "Ohshit monsters" or giving a crap about the characters.

Underwater sequence, Elgyn's death, Christie's, 'Call's', Clones scene, Newborn birth and other examples - 'Ohshit Monsters' and 'giving a crap', all in there. Or at least from me - as said, films are photographs.

Besides, I don't see how the cloning aspect means the movie is taking itself seriously,

Grotesque aspect of the clones, dramatic close-ups of Ripley, heart-breaking music.... no, nothing I guess, it's nothing serious, or trying to tell you something.

and the shoddy handling of the Newborn speaks volumes to a tacked-on third-act boss fight "just because".

And that's another point we disagree a lot in - I didn't find the handling of the Newborn 'shoddy', could've been better in some ways, yes, but for me, 'shoddy' is an exaggeration. For the time the Newborn was onscreen, it was handled greatly.

[SiL]

Not anything worse than Ripley punching one of the prisoners after they attempted to rape her in Alien3.

Entirely different context. Had Ripley punched Wren, it would've been fine, because she has every right to -- just like she had every right to smack Junior in the face after getting control taken from her. Wren's smug look, followed by Call doing the punching, is a cheap joke, especially followed by Johnner's line.

Does that mean the film does not take itself seriously?

And again, differently handled -- and better, in Alien³'s case, as the jokes don't come as the punchline of a scene, like in Resurrection. They ease tension usually just before someone's brains becomes a six-foot long smear on the floor.

Elgyn's death

See "forced reference".

'Call's',

Never had a shit to give. But that's subjective.

Newborn birth

Not really "oh shit monsters" so much as "what the f**k is this shit".

Grotesque aspect of the clones, dramatic close-ups of Ripley, heart-breaking music.... no, nothing I guess, it's nothing serious, or trying to tell you something.

There's a difference between saying "clones" and "clone scene". And as I keep saying, that scene is immediately undermined by a double-hit of lame comedy.

A handful of serious beats throughout the film does not make up for the fact that the rest of the movie, and the payoff of much of those scenes, is a parade of bullshit caricature posturing and Whedon one-liners.

And that's another point we disagree a lot in - I didn't find the handling of the Newborn 'shoddy', could've been better in some ways, yes, but for me, 'shoddy' is an exaggeration.

Hardly. You don't throw something like that out of left field -- it's just shitty writing. There is literally no suggestion that anything like this is going to happen, no foreshadowing, nothing -- and then it just appears. Aliens at least had the characters speculate that there was some hitherto unseen larger creature; it planted the thought in the audience's mind and then gave a payoff.

Simply pulling the Newborn out of their ass was an atrocious way of going about it and flat-out terrible writing.

[Valaquen]

SiL vs OmegaZilla ... when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object

[SM]

Resurrection did take it self seriously.  Just not often enough.  And when it really did it well - like the chapel scene - the best bits got edited.  As much as I dig the film, stuff like the "must be a chick thing" does undermine the clone scene.

[OmegaZilla]

Call doing the punching, is a cheap joke

What's the... punchline (see what I did there? ) behind this joke?

Not really "oh shit monsters" so much as "what the f**k is this shit".

'What the f**k is this shit' followed by 'oh shit Monster!'.

that scene is immediately undermined by a double-hit of lame comedy.

The scene had already been done with. It's not undermined at all if you ask me - and that's subjectivity, again, because I take the aftermath of the clone scene through a different key of reading. What I've always got out of that line is 'what an idiot Johner is', I didn't laugh, nor cheer, or anything. It's a line right after one of the most excruciating moments in the Alien series, I can't laugh.
Besides, there's also a small sequence thereafter which shows Ripley leaning on a wall (which is most probably intended to refer to the previous scene - nothing's certain, but that's what I always took it as).

There is literally no suggestion that anything like this is going to happen, no foreshadowing, nothing -- and then it just appears.

While I agree that they could've set up the mine at the beginning (or 1/3 through) and then blow it up at the climax, that take wasn't necessarily 'shoddy', as it has the (subjective) value of being, by all means, unexpected. During the film there are practically none hints at the thing, you don't know it will appear until when it does. When the Queen is giving birth to the new creature you don't know what's going on, you're confused, and then - the reveal. It's a powerful scene -  shows the unpredictability of the actions of those unscrupulous people, and serves as a nice, 'grotesque' counterpart of a Woman giving birth - Resurrection follows closely sex and birth undertones, there are other examples throughout the film, and the very score, according to composer John Frizzel, wanted to underline the subject.

As a closing line, I know that Alien: Resurrection isn't devoid of comedic moments - none of the Alien films are, after all - but what I am saying is that I think it's not daft, it's not stupid or overly self-teasing, or overly out-of-the-set-line as a lot of people make it out to be.

[SiL]

'What the f**k is this shit' followed by 'oh shit Monster!'.

Except it spends half its screentime making baby eyes. It's way more "WTF" than "Oh no".

The scene had already been done with.

Except it hadn't. Ripley torches Number 7 and walks out, and the scene and everything it set up is still going. And then before we go to the next scene we get Call punching Wren's smug face and Johnner acting like a douche. The scene's not done with until we cut to the next one.

that take wasn't necessarily 'shoddy', as it has the (subjective) value of being, by all means, unexpected.

No, dude; it's shoddy writing. This is not what I think. That's what it is. You don't pull something like that out of nowhere right at the end of your movie. You're throwing a massive curveball at the audience and leaving them scratching their head when they should be shitting their pants.

The Queen has one line of dialogue earlier in the movie, but it's enough to make her appearance seem like a natural thing to do. The Newborn literally pops up in the third act and heyo, we're expected to give a shit or feel threatened by it.

This is bad writing, any way you cut it.

[SM]

As I've been saying for years (after nicking the idea from someone else) - they should've stumbled across the Queen dead, which not only flags the presence of the boss monster, it creates tension among the characters and audience wondering what the hell could kill a Queen.

Whether the payoff of the reveal of the Newborn in it's current form would've worked.... ehhhh... dunno.

[OmegaZilla]

Ripley torches Number 7 and walks out, and the scene and everything it set up is still going. And then before we go to the next scene we get Call punching Wren's smug face and Johnner acting like a douche. The scene's not done with until we cut to the next one.

I take that.
Remains that I do not feel that those two things undermine the scene. I've never laughed at either, the first being just a thing I pass over with (without any real thing behind it except for Call being pissed off at Wren for what he has done - or to just give him the proper payment after Ripley decided to not roast him) and the second being something that allows me to identify Johner as a douche.
Besides, if those two moments are really comedy (as said, they'd be next to a ginormously emotional moment, I never laughed at them or felt they were supposed to give off a laugh), why'd they be enough to undermine the precedent scene? It's like saying that a good part of the major scenes in Lord of the Rings are ruined by some of Gimli's lines and dialogues with Legolas (which they aren't, at least for me).

we're expected to give a shit or feel threatened by it.

...Experienced both. *Shrugs*
The threatment of the Newborn could've been better in some ways, but for what we got, I'd say that it was held off well.