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Films/TV => Predator Films => Topic started by: Kailem on Apr 16, 2021, 12:46:54 AM

Title: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kailem on Apr 16, 2021, 12:46:54 AM
Uh-oh:

Quote from: The Hollywood ReporterJim and John Thomas say Disney's hold on the franchise expires this week. Disney becomes a defendant for the first time on the copyright termination front.

Jim and John Thomas, the brothers who wrote the 1987 action film Predator, have filed a lawsuit seeking confirmation of successfully recapturing rights to the franchise. In California federal court, the two say that Disney — which now owns 20th Century Fox  — is standing in the way.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/predator-screenwriters-suing-disney-to-recapture-rights

I really hope this doesn't become another Friday the 13th-type situation where nothing can be done with the character until all this legal stuff is sorted out; because they're literally being repped by the same lawyer.

Maybe this is why the comic were suddenly pushed back?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Apr 16, 2021, 01:44:38 AM
It's gonna look bad on Saturday. Everyone will see the full extent then but for now enjoy it while it lasts.

At best they settle where Disney and the Thomas brothers get a deal for the license.

At worst we end up with Disney owning certain Predators due to them falling under a license outside the Predator franchise. If AVP is a separate thing they wouldn't get Scar but Disney can't do the alien sport hunter thing.

It's probably why the comic got delayed. Someone at Marvel probably realized this was happening and delayed production to see where the ball falls. Still this isn't really good for anyone working on the franchise since it's kind of messy what is or isn't Predator specific material anyways,
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 01:56:03 AM
Creators Jim & John Thomas sue Disney to Reclaim Predator Rights.
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/04/16/creators-jim-john-thomas-sue-disney-to-reclaim-predator-rights/
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Xterminate on Apr 16, 2021, 02:19:59 AM
I'm rooting for the Thomas Brothers, I hope the cause The Rat nothing but problems.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Huggs on Apr 16, 2021, 02:22:15 AM
This going to affect the new movie?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Winter_Alekss on Apr 16, 2021, 02:23:00 AM
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Apr 16, 2021, 01:44:38 AM
It's gonna look bad on Saturday. Everyone will see the full extent then but for now enjoy it while it lasts.

At best they settle where Disney and the Thomas brothers get a deal for the license.

At worst we end up with Disney owning certain Predators due to them falling under a license outside the Predator franchise. If AVP is a separate thing they wouldn't get Scar but Disney can't do the alien sport hunter thing.

It's probably why the comic got delayed. Someone at Marvel probably realized this was happening and delayed production to see where the ball falls. Still this isn't really good for anyone working on the franchise since it's kind of messy what is or isn't Predator specific material anyways,
The worst part is that a lot of fans are celebrating this and they haven't realize this means no NECA figures, no comics, no videogames for some time, how long? I don't know. I really hope Disney wins this. I'm hating those brothers now. 😡
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 02:30:55 AM
Nah, I hope Disney loses big time here. Disney has more than enough license-wise as they continue to monopolize the entire industry that they can move forward without batting an eye if they lose Predator.

Let the actual creators here get their piece of the pie for their own creation, and let them license things out as they see fit.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Apr 16, 2021, 02:39:47 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 16, 2021, 02:22:15 AM
This going to affect the new movie?

It will affect production on the new movie and Predator related material. As of Saturday material will have to go through the Thomas Brothers for permission to do so. Meaning for the comic, film production, Hunting Grounds, toys, all of that will need to seek confirmation from them in order to proceed. Meaning anything already out or in production will need new contracts negotiated by the new I.P owners or cease activity. It's especially irksome for Neca or the new film's production since money had been spent on new material. Illfonic will be going through this for the second time assuming the Thomas brothers don't want to negotiate with them and things stand to be delisted due to ownership changing hands.

I don't think anyone is going to be happy about this on the business side of things. And frankly the fans shouldn't be either, at least not immediately because just as everything was coming out everything grinds back to a halt and potentially may stay there. This means nothing comes out without new contracts.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 02:47:00 AM
New contracts that favor the creators, hopefully. With them benefiting from licensing agreements, rather than Disney.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 02:47:28 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 16, 2021, 02:22:15 AM
This going to affect the new movie?

It could.

Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 02:30:55 AM
Nah, I hope Disney loses big time here. Disney has more than enough license-wise as they continue to monopolize the entire industry that they can move forward without batting an eye if they lose Predator.

Let the actual creators here get their piece of the pie for their own creation, and let them license things out as they see fit.

I know you've mentioned you're not really a Predator fan so just imagine this happening with Alien. From Titan books, to games, to the series, if it goes the way of Friday the 13th, it can paralyze new content for years. :-[

Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Apr 16, 2021, 02:39:47 AM
It will affect production on the new movie and Predator related material. As of Saturday material will have to go through the Thomas Brothers for permission to do so.

That is fortunately not at all definite. It all depends on immediate legal challenges and subsequent judge rulings. We'll all have to wait and see with pits in our stomachs. :-\
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 02:54:16 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 02:47:28 AM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 02:30:55 AM
Nah, I hope Disney loses big time here. Disney has more than enough license-wise as they continue to monopolize the entire industry that they can move forward without batting an eye if they lose Predator.

Let the actual creators here get their piece of the pie for their own creation, and let them license things out as they see fit.

I know you've mentioned you're not really a Predator fan so just imagine this happening with Alien. From Titan books, to games, to the series, if it goes the way of Friday the 13th, it can paralyze new content for years. :-[

This has nothing to do with me not caring for Predator as an infinitely ongoing franchise (I absolutely love the first two movies, and like Predators). This is all about me wanting to see the people that created the thing in the first place actually getting their end of the deal that they initially struck and not getting snuffed out by a massive corporation like Disney, like so many others before them have. I'd feel the same if the creators of any successful franchise were in the same position.

I absolutely think that Titan and Neca and all of those other licenses stuck around – but with those deals being struck with the Thomas Brothers, not with Disney, as their original contract with Fox dictated.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: ace3g on Apr 16, 2021, 02:55:42 AM
Just saw this on IG, lol

Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SM on Apr 16, 2021, 02:56:51 AM
Can't see the Thomas' winning this.  At best they'll get some extra points.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Engineer on Apr 16, 2021, 02:57:40 AM
So they are the creators of "predator"

But not so much for "predators" and the super predators featured in that film... could that be a loophole? Maybe that's why titan's new AVP book used the plural for the first time since that third film's era? "Aliens vs predators: ultimate prey."
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 02:59:25 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 16, 2021, 02:56:51 AM
Can't see the Thomas' winning this.  At best they'll get some extra points.

Yeah, I unfortunately don't see them being able to actually win here either. But if they can leverage it to cut a deal that puts a bit more in their pockets, then all the power to them.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Apr 16, 2021, 03:10:14 AM
We wont know for sure until Saturday but it looks a lot less messy than Jason and Friday the 13th. The legal battle however will kill the franchise and whatever comes up in its place we wont know until its over.

I can almost guarantee though Illfonic and Marvel are looking for the contact info for the Thomas brothers. f**k it, it circles back to Darkhorse. Ironically with Illfonic I was pretty sure we knew we had a year's worth of support and nearing exactly a year this shit goes down.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 03:14:51 AM
Illfonic must be shaking their fist at the clouds and yelling.... AGAIN?!!!

And why would Illfonic invest in any new Predator content after this, even if a Judge temporarily allows the lincesees to continue, if the rug can be pulled out from underneath them at any time. ugh.


Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 02:54:16 AM
This is all about me wanting to see the people that created the thing in the first place actually getting their end of the deal that they initially struck and not getting snuffed out by a massive corporation like Disney, like so many others before them have. I'd feel the same if the creators of any successful franchise were in the same position.

I do think the Dan O'Bannon family heirs can actually make the same pursuit, so start hoping!

I'm mixed about the issue personally. Like Alien, so many factors and talent outside of the Thomas Bros were key to making Predator work. It was one Boss Film Studio decision away from being quite a mess. Silvestri.... McTiernan.... But either way, I do feel if litigation happens, it shouldn't be allowed to stop projects already in production. But alas...
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SM on Apr 16, 2021, 03:17:40 AM
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 16, 2021, 02:57:40 AM
So they are the creators of "predator"

But not so much for "predators" and the super predators featured in that film... could that be a loophole? Maybe that's why titan's new AVP book used the plural for the first time since that third film's era? "Aliens vs predators: ultimate prey."

They created the Predator character and universe it inhabits, effectively.  And they have a stake in AvP.  They couldn't just use Super Predators and cut the Thomas's out.

As a comparison, if they made an Alien film that only had an Alien Queen in it, O'Bannon and Shusett would get a 'Based on characters created by' credit and however much in royalties that nets.  James Cameron wouldn't get anything despite creating and designing the Alien Queen.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 16, 2021, 03:20:09 AM
Does that mean they'll finally write another film?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 16, 2021, 03:20:59 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 02:47:28 AM

I know you've mentioned you're not really a Predator fan so just imagine this happening with Alien. From Titan books, to games, to the series, if it goes the way of Friday the 13th, it can paralyze new content for years. :-[
Where do I sign?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 16, 2021, 03:22:22 AM
Especially if it stops Marvel yes thank you.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 03:23:18 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 03:14:51 AM
I do think the Dan O'Bannon family heirs can actually make the same pursuit, so start hoping!

If it starts breaking up some of these massive studios and dispersing more properties so they aren't all living under the same roof, I would absolutely love that. If everything is coming from one studio, with the same sets of eyes overseeing it all, then things are going to get stale fast. Studios like Disney just keep on obtaining IP after IP, and then a whole damn competing studio in the form of Fox, and that is awful for the industry as a whole and the individual voices within it.

Hell, I'll even take it a step further and say that as much as I want a Covenant sequel, I would also be fine if Alien came to a stop. There's something to be said for some franchises actually coming to an end – not every property needs to go on infinitely.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 03:49:54 AM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 03:23:18 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 03:14:51 AM
I do think the Dan O'Bannon family heirs can actually make the same pursuit, so start hoping!

If it starts breaking up some of these massive studios and dispersing more properties so they aren't all living under the same roof, I would absolutely love that. If everything is coming from one studio, with the same sets of eyes overseeing it all, then things are going to get stale fast. Studios like Disney just keep on obtaining IP after IP, and then a whole damn competing studio in the form of Fox, and that is awful for the industry as a whole and the individual voices within it.

Hell, I'll even take it a step further and say that as much as I want a Covenant sequel, I would also be fine if Alien came to a stop. There's something to be said for some franchises actually coming to an end – not every property needs to go on infinitely.

I don't know. I know Alien is your love. And you're one of the many (including me) starving for a crumb of info on that Alien TV Series and you probably have posted the most of us on that thread. I can't see you not being disappointed if a similar situation happened to Alien suddenly. It's a lot easier to wave away when the ramifications of this is theoretical, versus facing it as a very real potential immediate reality.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 03:57:55 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 03:49:54 AM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 03:23:18 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 03:14:51 AM
I do think the Dan O'Bannon family heirs can actually make the same pursuit, so start hoping!

If it starts breaking up some of these massive studios and dispersing more properties so they aren't all living under the same roof, I would absolutely love that. If everything is coming from one studio, with the same sets of eyes overseeing it all, then things are going to get stale fast. Studios like Disney just keep on obtaining IP after IP, and then a whole damn competing studio in the form of Fox, and that is awful for the industry as a whole and the individual voices within it.

Hell, I'll even take it a step further and say that as much as I want a Covenant sequel, I would also be fine if Alien came to a stop. There's something to be said for some franchises actually coming to an end – not every property needs to go on infinitely.

I don't know. I know Alien is your love. And you're one of the many (including me) starving for a crumb of info on that Alien TV Series and you probably have posted the most of us on that thread. I can't see you not being disappointed if a similar situation happened to Alien suddenly. It's a lot easier to wave away when the ramifications of this is theoretical, versus facing it as a very real potential immediate reality.

Even more than my love of Alien, though, is my love of movies and the people that make them. And I would rather see an environment where filmmakers can thrive creatively than one that is hardwired to hit certain criteria within the brands that I like.

You're absolutely right in that I am always going to get excited for/intrigued by any new installment in a franchise that I love like Alien, but that doesn't mean I need another one. If it was announced tomorrow that the Hawley series was canceled I'd be disappointed for sure (especially because I like Hawley's Fargo series) but, ultimately, I'd be fine. It would be far from the first Alien project to be canceled, and I am just as excited for Ridley Scott's upcoming films The Last Duel and House of Gucci, and James Cameron's Avatar followups. David Fincher's Mank didn't totally live up to the hype for me, unfortunately, but it was one of my most anticipated films last year and I still cannot wait to see what he does next. The individual works of the filmmakers that contributed to the brand are just as much a source of excitement for me as the brand itself.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 16, 2021, 04:00:46 AM
If it goes ahead I hope Predator Skulls still happens, and also a proper Predator 3, in terms of a sequel to Predator 2 (The Bible), but considering the amount of good Predator stuff we get in general I can't imagine we will miss out on much anyway.

Sure Predator Hunters ruled but apart from it and perhaps three novels after over thirty years? Most of that stuff's nothing to write home about at best.

And with Marvel's track record the future looks bleak for EU material in Disney's hands honestly.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Enjoy on Apr 16, 2021, 04:01:31 AM
I see this as a very good thing .
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 04:07:22 AM
Well good discussion NA!  And I love that Predator 3 talk TQ!

Now I'm off to drink myself to sleep in hope that I awake and all this potential Predator turmoil is settled in record time!  ;D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 16, 2021, 04:09:16 AM
Here's hoping.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Blabel on Apr 16, 2021, 04:09:47 AM
Hope The Thomas bros get their due. They deserve it.
Sad for all the actors/crew that will go unemployed if this f**ks up the production of the next movie (and it most likely will).
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 16, 2021, 04:19:10 AM
I dunno....ceative freedom to do what exactly? AVP, Prometheus? Attack of the Clones?

I'll be biased, but after Mandalorian and everything other than ST, I'm willing to give in for the benefit of the doubt, as things are often what they are because of a collaborative effort, like in Alien or Star Wars.

What they do with comics is f**king shit. And in that I do agree.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Lost_Hunter on Apr 16, 2021, 04:31:21 AM
Totally agree, this is the Thomas brothers show and they deserve to be the shepherds. I'm rooting for them no matter the outcome. It it does freeze the pipeline so be it. I'm all for new content but I would much prefer good content. We just don't know yet.

Skulls could go either way, too early to tell but I don't like what I've heard soo far. The Marvel comic sounded fun, I was looking forward to more Hunting Grounds. Can you imagine if Illfonic gets Friday the 13th again? Youch.

Hoping for the best and for the Predator to finally win in this one.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Drukathi on Apr 16, 2021, 06:34:03 AM
I hope Thomas bros will win! I want a new Predator film, not another social experiment.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 06:42:38 AM
Quote from: wolfvanguard50 on Apr 16, 2021, 02:23:00 AM
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Apr 16, 2021, 01:44:38 AM
It's gonna look bad on Saturday. Everyone will see the full extent then but for now enjoy it while it lasts.

At best they settle where Disney and the Thomas brothers get a deal for the license.

At worst we end up with Disney owning certain Predators due to them falling under a license outside the Predator franchise. If AVP is a separate thing they wouldn't get Scar but Disney can't do the alien sport hunter thing.

It's probably why the comic got delayed. Someone at Marvel probably realized this was happening and delayed production to see where the ball falls. Still this isn't really good for anyone working on the franchise since it's kind of messy what is or isn't Predator specific material anyways,
The worst part is that a lot of fans are celebrating this and they haven't realize this means no NECA figures, no comics, no videogames for some time, how long? I don't know. I really hope Disney wins this. I'm hating those brothers now. 😡
Emmm, no, it means it could prevent Disney from making another piece of shit movie in this franchise for some time which is a good thing. I wish the same thing happened with Alien, so they would cancel that horrible TV show.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Galactus123 on Apr 16, 2021, 06:46:10 AM
I was really excited about the new movie and more Hunting Grounds DLC so I don't like this at all. Illfonic should just release the big anniversary update today.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Apr 16, 2021, 08:09:51 AM
I'm really conflicted about this. Selfishly, I don't want this to get in the way of Skulls, Hunting Grounds, the comic, the other stuff that's coming that hasn't been announced (there's a couple). And on top of that, it's the people working on those products that are going to suffer as well.

But on the other hand, Jim and John 100% deserve their dues. It's no secret most people prefer 1 and 2 (I still stand by Predators) so I'm sure plenty of people would love to see the franchise back in their hands. But Skulls' premise is too interesting to me, I don't want to see this get in the way of it.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: The Necronoir on Apr 16, 2021, 08:35:07 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 16, 2021, 08:09:51 AM
I'm really conflicted about this. Selfishly, I don't want this to get in the way of Skulls, Hunting Grounds, the comic, the other stuff that's coming that hasn't been announced (there's a couple). And on top of that, it's the people working on those products that are going to suffer as well.

But on the other hand, Jim and John 100% deserve their dues. It's no secret most people prefer 1 and 2 (I still stand by Predators) so I'm sure plenty of people would love to see the franchise back in their hands. But Skulls' premise is too interesting to me, I don't want to see this get in the way of it.
I don't think you have to go one way or the other, and I highly doubt that the brothers are actually aiming for wholesale control over the franchise. To me it seems like a big old shot across the bow to let Disney know they're serious, but the endgame is reaching a settlement out of court that will see them given a percentage of franchise revenues. At least I hope that's what's going on.

It occurs to me that the entire AVP franchise could end up dead in the water if the various stakeholders on the Alien side also pitched in for similar deals. Too many licensors and there may not be a big enough revenue percentage for Disney to bother embarking on the crossover.

Whatever the case, I hope this doesn't stop Illfonic dead in their tracks. I'm still holding out hope that this 'big update' they're teasing for the anniversary will include a Steam release...
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 16, 2021, 08:48:25 AM
Eh, it wouldn't necessarily kill AvP outside of movies. That's why the AvP film took so long -- Hill and Giler had dug their heels in during the 90s and killed the project, and it took years for Davis to wrangle the rights to make it eventually happen. But the comics, novels, and toys could exist earlier because they only relied on merchandising rights, not film rights.

Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Master on Apr 16, 2021, 10:03:39 AM
I hope they`ll get what they deserve. Ideal situation would be, where Jim and John get their credit and Skulls is still relesed. Proper Predator 3, with script by Brothers, is too much to ask IMO but maybe they could share their insight and work with another writer/ director to make it happen.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 16, 2021, 10:06:53 AM
Don't know what to think of it right now, too early to tell. Need to know more about this case.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 16, 2021, 11:21:17 AM
Quote from: Master on Apr 16, 2021, 10:03:39 AM
I hope they`ll get what they deserve. Ideal situation would be, where Jim and John get their credit and Skulls is still relesed.
It's not about credit, as they already get that.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Master on Apr 16, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 16, 2021, 11:21:17 AM
Quote from: Master on Apr 16, 2021, 10:03:39 AM
I hope they`ll get what they deserve. Ideal situation would be, where Jim and John get their credit and Skulls is still relesed.
It's not about credit, as they already get that.
It`s about money, as it always is. I do hope it`s also about creative control and possibility of another sequel. One can dream.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Samhain13 on Apr 16, 2021, 11:31:07 AM
Oh its gonna be another F13 situation. Fans are screwed yeah. That might put on stasis a lot of stuff. PHG might suffer the same the F13 game did. Illfonic is really cursed lol. Skulls can die for all care, I just want Illfonic to make PHG great again or for once before its too late.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SM on Apr 16, 2021, 11:41:01 AM
Quote from: Master on Apr 16, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 16, 2021, 11:21:17 AM
Quote from: Master on Apr 16, 2021, 10:03:39 AM
I hope they`ll get what they deserve. Ideal situation would be, where Jim and John get their credit and Skulls is still relesed.
It's not about credit, as they already get that.
It`s about money, as it always is. I do hope it`s also about creative control and possibility of another sequel. One can dream.

They're already making another sequel and Predator 2 didn't exactly hit the mark.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 16, 2021, 11:49:58 AM
A majority of people can argue Predator 2 is still way better than what we got after they stopped being involved.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 12:13:06 PM
And it was a different time then. Arnold Schwarzenegger was in his prime. The #1 box office star in the world when movies were still all about the name over the title. Predator was an Arnold film. A Predator 2 without Arnold was like a Die Hard 2 without Bruce. People were not pleased.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Master on Apr 16, 2021, 12:20:58 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 16, 2021, 11:41:01 AM
Quote from: Master on Apr 16, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 16, 2021, 11:21:17 AM
Quote from: Master on Apr 16, 2021, 10:03:39 AM
I hope they`ll get what they deserve. Ideal situation would be, where Jim and John get their credit and Skulls is still relesed.
It's not about credit, as they already get that.
It`s about money, as it always is. I do hope it`s also about creative control and possibility of another sequel. One can dream.

They're already making another sequel and Predator 2 didn't exactly hit the mark.

Another sequel with Thomas brothers involved. I know Skulls is in production and I wish it well. Predator 2 became cult classic over the years. P1 and P2 are considered by vast majority as best the franchise has to offer.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 16, 2021, 12:21:45 PM
Indeed, I saw a tremendous amount of critics saying Predator 2 was lacking Arnold  ::)

As if it was a bad thing the movie did like a technical error or some like that smh.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 12:26:19 PM
Predator 2 is great.

It is also the most recently released film with the word "Predator" in the title that I can attribute the word "great" to. It is absolute schlock in the best possible way.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 16, 2021, 12:38:37 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 16, 2021, 08:09:51 AM
I'm really conflicted about this. Selfishly, I don't want this to get in the way of Skulls, Hunting Grounds, the comic, the other stuff that's coming that hasn't been announced (there's a couple). And on top of that, it's the people working on those products that are going to suffer as well.

But on the other hand, Jim and John 100% deserve their dues. It's no secret most people prefer 1 and 2 (I still stand by Predators) so I'm sure plenty of people would love to see the franchise back in their hands. But Skulls' premise is too interesting to me, I don't want to see this get in the way of it.

Can I be just as selfish as you?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 16, 2021, 12:38:51 PM
The news of the copyright shouldn't be too surprising. It was mentioned right around the time the news broke that Disney was acquiring several Fox properties. So Disney knew this was coming to a head which is why they've been attempting to fast track certain projects.

On one hand, I am all for creators maintaining rights and/or reaping large benefits for their work. So good on them. Hope they get what they deserve.

On the other hand (and as a selfish fan of the franchise), this sucks royally. I've seen some talk that they'll just settle out of court, and I don't believe that will happen. There's a reason they're represented by the lawyer involved with the Friday the 13th and Hellraiser cases. Look how long those have been tied up with little to no new content. No, this is going to get messy and the fans will suffer the lack of anything new.

And say what you will about Disney property, but as a fan of the franchise, I was looking so forward to at least having a new film and surely that production will cease. And who's to say the Thomas brothers have any intention of wanting to do anything with the property once rights revert to them. Who's to say they even want more of anything to be made. Money talks of course and they could shop it to other studios. But instead of having a new film in the next 2 years, we're looking at SEVERAL years if at all.

Again, good for the Thomas brothers. Bad for the fans. Le Huge Freaking Sigh.

Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 16, 2021, 12:46:31 PM
Quote from: Master on Apr 16, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 16, 2021, 11:21:17 AM
Quote from: Master on Apr 16, 2021, 10:03:39 AM
I hope they`ll get what they deserve. Ideal situation would be, where Jim and John get their credit and Skulls is still relesed.
It's not about credit, as they already get that.
It`s about money, as it always is. I do hope it`s also about creative control and possibility of another sequel. One can dream.
Sure, but they already get royalties is my point. Rights are a whole other ball game.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Drukathi on Apr 16, 2021, 12:49:17 PM
I think it is worth waiting for several years in order to get a good film that respects the viewer and the franchise, than get another exploitation film, which will cause a ton of hate and fail at the box-office, like its wbroken brothers.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 12:55:46 PM
I do honestly love the sound of the upcoming "Skulls" project. Trachtenberg is cool (I love 10 Cloverfield Lane) and it sounds like it has the potential to easily be the best Predator movie since Predator 2. I genuinely want to see this movie.

I also genuinely hope that the Thomas Brothers do wind up with the rights to the work they created, and that they gain the right to choose to license out, sell, or create within the Predator brand as they see fit. It would be great to see them shake up that Disney monopoly a little bit right now.

If it comes down to having to choose between the two, then I choose the creators' ownership of their own property, rather than Disney's ownership.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 01:04:43 PM
^ Best of both worlds....

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 16, 2021, 12:38:37 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 16, 2021, 08:09:51 AM
I'm really conflicted about this. Selfishly, I don't want this to get in the way of Skulls, Hunting Grounds, the comic, the other stuff that's coming that hasn't been announced (there's a couple). And on top of that, it's the people working on those products that are going to suffer as well.

But on the other hand, Jim and John 100% deserve their dues. It's no secret most people prefer 1 and 2 (I still stand by Predators) so I'm sure plenty of people would love to see the franchise back in their hands. But Skulls' premise is too interesting to me, I don't want to see this get in the way of it.

Can I be just as selfish as you?  :laugh:

Thirded.

Best case would be a ruling that all projects will continue as its litigated in court. Is there precedent for that? Perhaps with Superman?

Quote from: Proteus on Apr 16, 2021, 12:38:51 PM
The news of the copyright shouldn't be too surprising. It was mentioned right around the time the news broke that Disney was acquiring several Fox properties. So Disney knew this was coming to a head which is why they've been attempting to fast track certain projects.

On one hand, I am all for creators maintaining rights and/or reaping large benefits for their work. So good on them. Hope they get what they deserve.

On the other hand (and as a selfish fan of the franchise), this sucks royally. I've seen some talk that they'll just settle out of court, and I don't believe that will happen. There's a reason they're represented by the lawyer involved with the Friday the 13th and Hellraiser cases. Look how long those have been tied up with little to no new content. No, this is going to get messy and the fans will suffer the lack of anything new.

And say what you will about Disney property, but as a fan of the franchise, I was looking so forward to at least having a new film and surely that production will cease. And who's to say the Thomas brothers have any intention of wanting to do anything with the property once rights revert to them. Who's to say they even want more of anything to be made. Money talks of course and they could shop it to other studios. But instead of having a new film in the next 2 years, we're looking at SEVERAL years if at all.

Again, good for the Thomas brothers. Bad for the fans. Le Huge Freaking Sigh.


(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/depressing_anchorman.gif)

Spoiler
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Quote from: Drukathi on Apr 16, 2021, 12:49:17 PM
I think it is worth waiting for several years in order to get a good film that respects the viewer and the franchise, than get another exploitation film, which will cause a ton of hate and fail at the box-office, like its wbroken brothers.

You've seen Cameron come back to Terminator  and Ridley Scott come back to Alien though. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee anything will improve.

To avoid the hassle of typing the same thoughts over again, I'll just port over what I just said in the Skulls thread:

I love all those guys, and unabashedly love the Thomas Brothers even more, but something sweet inside these creatives can definitely sour over time, that's for certain. That's the risk.

Now, you tell me the Thomas brothers have unproduced Predator scripts decades old, maybe a full unrealized Predator 3 period-piece script featuring that beloved flintlock on the shelf, perhaps written in 1990 or 1991?  Then yes please! By all means! Make that!

It is relevant to note that when the Thomas brothers teased the ending of Predator 2 in 1990 interviews as possibly setting up a third film, they did say that they were (among others) offered a chance to direct Predator 3. So who knows how far they got scriptwise in relation to that potential offer.


Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 01:11:17 PM
Well, Ridley's Alien prequels absolutely have their passionate fans. Fans are certainly in contention as to whether or not they improved the franchise overall, but the movies certainly generate extensive discussion and add a whole lot to talk about, regardless of which side of the fence you fall on, and to me that is pretty fascinating in and of itself. Love 'em or hate 'em, they really have people talking.

I'm in the minority with Dark Fate, but if you ask me, the worst thing about that movie is Tim Miller's directing. But I see it as an improvement over the non-Cameron movies by a long shot, even if it is ultimately redundant and doesn't add anything of note to the original two films.

If the Thomas Brothers do win here, though, I don't really expect them to actually sit down and write another Predator movie themselves. But if the rights are due to return to them, as per their original contract that they signed, then that is something that absolutely should happen and, thus, they should have the autonomy over their creation to decide how they license it out (or, if they so choose, to sell it outright) and to whom. Hell, for all we know, they might win this and then offer to sell it right back to Disney for a big ol' profit on their end. And if they do, then that's their choice.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 16, 2021, 01:32:20 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 16, 2021, 12:38:51 PM
The news of the copyright shouldn't be too surprising. It was mentioned right around the time the news broke that Disney was acquiring several Fox properties. So Disney knew this was coming to a head which is why they've been attempting to fast track certain projects.

On one hand, I am all for creators maintaining rights and/or reaping large benefits for their work. So good on them. Hope they get what they deserve.

On the other hand (and as a selfish fan of the franchise), this sucks royally. I've seen some talk that they'll just settle out of court, and I don't believe that will happen. There's a reason they're represented by the lawyer involved with the Friday the 13th and Hellraiser cases. Look how long those have been tied up with little to no new content. No, this is going to get messy and the fans will suffer the lack of anything new.

And say what you will about Disney property, but as a fan of the franchise, I was looking so forward to at least having a new film and surely that production will cease. And who's to say the Thomas brothers have any intention of wanting to do anything with the property once rights revert to them. Who's to say they even want more of anything to be made. Money talks of course and they could shop it to other studios. But instead of having a new film in the next 2 years, we're looking at SEVERAL years if at all.

Again, good for the Thomas brothers. Bad for the fans. Le Huge Freaking Sigh.

Well I doubt it, but if they succeed, I hope they make a sequel to Predator 2. I'm interested in the creatures, not the characters. After all, the Predator series is not Ducth story as is the case with much of Alien's film continuity and Ripley. I still prefer the creatures though.

Having said that, I'm still in unconditional love with the Predator Lost Tribe Ship. Probably the most interesting thing in the entire franchise, even more than in Predator, that was a solid starting point. But Predator 2 ended with te Space Jockey so to speak. However,  even with that in mind, I can't put scope aside, because this is supposed to take place in the near future albeit somewhat dystopian. A setting playing between crime fiction & science fiction,  plus all this worldbuilding involving Jamaican gangsters fighting other cartels while delivering the kind of sequencies you may expect from the 80s action cinema.

I'd actually like to see another Predator movie set in some dystopian future again. And in the past! Although Skull is exactly that soo yes. Even when I try not to be selfish I'm still even more selfish  :laugh:




Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 01:04:43 PM
Thirded.

Best case would be a ruling that all projects will continue as its litigated in court. Is there precedent for that? Perhaps with Superman?

Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster? oh yeah. And welcome to the selfish camp!  ;D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Apr 16, 2021, 01:33:28 PM
The only way this would end up like Superboy and Jason is if Predators like Scar aren't considered derivatives and are separate legal entities owned by Fox. It's doubtful though. I think this would require them to have a separate copyright for each Predator they'd claim to own and while they did end up naming them I don't think they ever had one under an individual copyright.

AVP is also considered derivative works at least by that document but if Fox can provide a counter to that then they could hold onto the AVP Predators. However that's very doubtful and a best case scenario.

Really if they wanted to hold onto it then they just drop the thing and cut a deal with the Thomas brothers to keep everything going. They get a cut of the profit and everyone can remain in business. Though that's being idealistic since in addition to gaining the profits from the franchise likely want creative control and that means things could look a bit messy. In more ways than one we're starting at 0 on Saturday if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Ahsoka on Apr 16, 2021, 01:49:05 PM
I hope it all ends well and we can have a Friday the 13th vs Predator film.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Crawler on Apr 16, 2021, 01:54:17 PM
Jim & John Thomas reclaiming the rights does not mean they'll write every new film/series/comics by themselves, I don't know why some of you are assuming that.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: XENOMORPHOSIS on Apr 16, 2021, 02:01:12 PM
My face when I read this.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FlusteredWarlikeBats-size_restricted.gif

It's possible that Skulls could be scrapped. Hope what ever the outcome we can get some great quality Predator movies. Here's a question, in 2014 Ron Shusett and Dan OBannon's estate, Dan passed away in 2009 could have used to retain Alien, if the Predator rights revert it could mean they'll be no more Aliens vs Predator separating the two indefinitely.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 02:45:03 PM
Quote from: Drukathi on Apr 16, 2021, 12:49:17 PM
I think it is worth waiting for several years in order to get a good film that respects the viewer and the franchise, than get another exploitation film, which will cause a ton of hate and fail at the box-office, like its wbroken brothers.
I think it's been decades since the last good film in the franchise. I really think someone should take away both franchises from 20th Century Fox/Disney, they are absolutely incompetent and very very stupid, Fox managed to f up both franchises for decades and Disney's first moves are even worse. They shouldn't be anywhere near both Alien and Predator, someone else should take the reins.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Apr 16, 2021, 02:54:21 PM
Quote from: XENOMORPHOSIS on Apr 16, 2021, 02:01:12 PM
My face when I read this.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FlusteredWarlikeBats-size_restricted.gif

It's possible that Skulls could be scrapped. Hope what ever the outcome we can get some great quality Predator movies. Here's a question, in 2014 Ron Shusett and Dan OBannon's estate, Dan passed away in 2009 could have used to retain Alien, if the Predator rights revert it could mean they'll be no more Aliens vs Predator separating the two indefinitely.

It depends on who picks up the film rights. It doesn't mean that you couldn't get it if someone like Fox didn't negotiate (Fox doesn't get it but say Paramount does and they could do a deal which gets an AVP to happen) but all new projects would have to go through them (the Thomas brothers) and since we lack a crystal ball we don't know the nature of future deals or if Fox would even be allowed to proceed. Issue of course is that with everything starting at 0 come Saturday it's going to be a whole new era for the franchise. We simply don't know who is going to do what and with Disney looking to regain the rights it might remain with Fox anyways. It could even be like Godzilla where maybe the Thomas brothers don't want to do anything for 10 years. We wont know until tomorrow and for sure whatever Disney's stake in this is going to be until Disney goes through its litigation. 
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Leemond84 on Apr 16, 2021, 03:01:39 PM
Disney knows they got a cash cow on their hands and will do whatever it takes to retain it they know how valuable the franchise is and potential to crossover with Alien they ain't stupid, games, comics, merch and films they'll make the money once the right people are behind it. Look at it this way. The Superman battle was long and hard in the end The Segal estate won and they are still using Superman in Warner Bros films today. The writers prob just want a price of that sweet money pie they aren't stupid either both parties know Money talks
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Enjoy on Apr 16, 2021, 03:06:32 PM
I can't picture the Thomas Brothers wanting to stop so many Native Americans from getting so much work on a movie. That would be cold. The original script of predator had a native american lead. Relax about that untill it becomes news, which I doubt ever will happen.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Stitch on Apr 16, 2021, 03:10:53 PM
The best thing that can happen is the Thomas brothers win the case, and get the rights back as per their initial contract. They then license the IP back to Disney for the release of the content that has been planned.

The likelihood of this is... Slim.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kailem on Apr 16, 2021, 03:13:12 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 16, 2021, 08:09:51 AM
I'm really conflicted about this. Selfishly, I don't want this to get in the way of Skulls, Hunting Grounds, the comic, the other stuff that's coming that hasn't been announced (there's a couple). And on top of that, it's the people working on those products that are going to suffer as well.

But on the other hand, Jim and John 100% deserve their dues. It's no secret most people prefer 1 and 2 (I still stand by Predators) so I'm sure plenty of people would love to see the franchise back in their hands. But Skulls' premise is too interesting to me, I don't want to see this get in the way of it.

Pretty much how I feel about it. I want the Thomas brothers to get paid, but I also don't want this to be another Friday the 13th situation were it puts the entire franchise in limbo indefinitely. It's been years since that one ground that to a halt with no sign of any progress being made.

And the bad thing is we may have already seen the first results of this with the comics being delayed. If it really is as bad as we fear then this could be the end of any more Hunting Grounds updates, comics, figures, and potentially shut down Skulls too. And yeah, that'd suck.

If it turns out we were only days away from getting a new map and Isabelle for Hunting Grounds, and the last ever fireteam update was an American football player, that's gonna be really crappy.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Samhain13 on Apr 16, 2021, 03:22:19 PM
Quote from: Kailem on Apr 16, 2021, 03:13:12 PM
If it turns out we were only days away from getting a new map and Isabelle for Hunting Grounds, and the last ever fireteam update was an American football player, that's gonna be really crappy.

So my hate for that DLC can increase even more.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Apr 16, 2021, 03:47:02 PM
Well, not something I was expecting to hear about today. Let's wait and see what happens next

Voodoo, you of all people should be the happiest boy - original creators are re-claiming their baby which means ? Yep, they're gonna ditch the ADI and make Predator great again !  ;D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Enjoy on Apr 16, 2021, 03:51:35 PM
Grim picture you paint. If we get some good predator films like the first two then great. If it shuts down everything and nothing comes after then ....?...what?huhwtf
Again, stopping production of a native american lead film in a sci fi first of it's kind, is cold.
I could care less about the video games and comics at this point. I am concernd about what I saw as  a good thing for a mistreated group or people being iced.so shitty.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Lost_Hunter on Apr 16, 2021, 03:52:54 PM
I never copped that one, seemed ridiculous. Haven't been on in months. Though I would like to get back on the horse. Do you think Illfonic has a new map up their sleeve?

Worst case scenario we loose the pipeline, best case we don't and we get some quality control on the franchise. The Predator is an intergalactic trophy hunter. There were no trophies taken in the last Movie or the AVP nonsense, that should not be a thing. Hoping this doesn't turn into a "Whoever wins, we lose" situation.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Apr 16, 2021, 03:55:47 PM
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 16, 2021, 12:21:45 PM
Indeed, I saw a tremendous amount of critics saying Predator 2 was lacking Arnold  ::)

As if it was a bad thing the movie did like a technical error or some like that smh.

Eh, that's just buncha bullshit. P2 is great
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 04:16:35 PM
Quote from: Kailem on Apr 16, 2021, 03:13:12 PM
And the bad thing is we may have already seen the first results of this with the comics being delayed.

In this kind of copyright battle, I believe a regular course of action is for the big company to rush something into production so it's harder for a judge to stop it, compared to putting a freeze on any future projects.

I still think that delay is the Penguin deal. Because otherwise, by that logic, they would have delayed pre-production on Skulls until November too (or later). And who says any of these legal issues will be resolved that specific November month to tell comic retailers November for Predator anyway? The more profitable Penguin deal starts October - and that's the month the other title Predator variant covers would come out, then November is the ongoing Predator title #1 premiere. I think the good bet is still on that causality. :)

And now it's all up to a Judge and if he/she issues an injunction or not. We'll see what happens to Skulls, toys, books, games, all of it. Fingers crossed it all can continue. 🤞
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: molasar on Apr 16, 2021, 04:38:45 PM
What situation will it be if the brothers win? Will they keep full rights to the story concept only or to everything with soundtrack and final Predator design included?

Let's say if somebody wants to profit on music or creature design but not using any space hunter concept or Predator name do they need the brothers' legal approval for it?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: LiquidMonster on Apr 16, 2021, 05:08:16 PM
As Molasar stated below me, the brothers need to be careful here. I *highly* doubt they'd own the actual DESIGN of Predator which was from Stan Winston himself and I would presume NOT go to the brothers if they were to win. What a mess this is going to end up being.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 16, 2021, 05:17:36 PM
Quote from: Enjoy on Apr 16, 2021, 03:51:35 PM
Grim picture you paint. If we get some good predator films like the first two then great. If it shuts down everything and nothing comes after then ....?...what?huhwtf
Again, stopping production of a native american lead film in a sci fi first of it's kind, is cold.
I could care less about the video games and comics at this point. I am concernd about what I saw as  a good thing for a mistreated group or people being iced.so shitty.

Precisely. This one is going to hurt if filming is scrapped. But I wonder if they knew for awhile this would not fair well if they haven't announced casting so close to production start. It was either really secretive or they purposely avoided casting anyone yet because of the legal issues coming their way.

Man, I just really wanted this one to move forward. Sounded cool in my opinion, and Dan is a talented filmmaker.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 16, 2021, 05:26:57 PM
Quote from: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 06:42:38 AM
it could prevent Disney from making another piece of shit movie in this franchise for some time which is a good thing.

Disney hasn't made any predator movie yet dude, lol.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: PAS Spinelli on Apr 16, 2021, 05:28:14 PM
Rest in peace Hunting Grounds
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 05:29:57 PM
^ You take that back!!! >:(

Quote from: molasar on Apr 16, 2021, 04:38:45 PM
What situation will it be if the brothers win? Will they keep full rights to the story concept only or to everything with soundtrack and final Predator design included?

Let's say if somebody wants to profit on music or creature design but not using any space hunter concept or Predator name do they need the brothers' legal approval for it?

Quote from: LiquidMonster on Apr 16, 2021, 05:08:16 PM
As Molasar stated below me, the brothers need to be careful here. I *highly* doubt they'd own the actual DESIGN of Predator which was from Stan Winston himself and I would presume NOT go to the brothers if they were to win. What a mess this is going to end up being.

I can't even wrap my mind around what both of you are suggesting.

The court rules for the plantiffs. And here's your rights to "Hunter" John and Jim.

But we sued to get Predator back!

I'm sorry, the original script you sold was called "Hunter".
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kailem on Apr 16, 2021, 07:43:46 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 16, 2021, 04:16:35 PM
Quote from: Kailem on Apr 16, 2021, 03:13:12 PM
And the bad thing is we may have already seen the first results of this with the comics being delayed.
I still think that delay is the Penguin deal. Because otherwise, by that logic, they would have delayed pre-production on Skulls until November too (or later). And who says any of these legal issues will be resolved that specific November month to tell comic retailers November for Predator anyway? The more profitable Penguin deal starts October - and that's the month the other title Predator variant covers would come out, then November is the ongoing Predator title #1 premiere. I think the good bet is still on that causality. :)

Yeah you're probably right, I'd forgotten about the Penguin deal. My mind is just going to "worst case scenario" right now.

Fingers crossed indeed that we get that Hunting Grounds April DLC update soon, since at least then it'll hopefully be an indication of whether or not everything going forward from tomorrow is going to be put on hold!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: LiquidMonster on Apr 16, 2021, 08:41:46 PM
Best case scenario hear is that the brothers will take a nice "pay day"(settle with Disney) before any of this goes to court. They'll go through the motions but ultimately I think they'd be wise to take a settlement. I really think they would NOT win in regards to the actual DESIGN/USAGE of the iconic Stan Winston designed Predator Creature. It was designed AFTER filming had started and wasn't even the agreed upon *INITIAL* design(Fried Daffy Duck was). So yeah.....I predict they'll take a settlement. Depends on how long Disney wants to drag this out.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: PAS Spinelli on Apr 16, 2021, 08:43:56 PM
best case scenario is Disney someone working with them so that they can oversee Predator related projects, because I genuinely can't see them 100% winning against Disney
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: [cancerblack] on Apr 16, 2021, 08:45:08 PM
Quote from: LiquidMonster on Apr 16, 2021, 08:41:46 PM
Best case scenario hear is that the brothers will take a nice "pay day"(settle with Disney) before any of this goes to court. They'll go through the motions but ultimately I think they'd be wise to take a settlement. I really think they would NOT win in regards to the actual DESIGN/USAGE of the iconic Stan Winston designed Predator Creature. It was designed AFTER filming had started and wasn't even the agreed upon *INITIAL* design(Fried Daffy Duck was). So yeah.....I predict they'll take a settlement. Depends on how long Disney wants to drag this out.


hehehehehe fried daffy
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 16, 2021, 05:26:57 PM
Quote from: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 06:42:38 AM
it could prevent Disney from making another piece of shit movie in this franchise for some time which is a good thing.

Disney hasn't made any predator movie yet dude, lol.
Their ideas for both Alien and Predator, and what they've done with Star Wars (and I'm not even SW fan) tell me everything. I can pretty much guarantee they won't make anything good out of those franchises, I wish I was wrong here, but it's Disney in nutshell. Lionsgate or Paramount should own both Alien and Predator, I can't see any other studio doing it justice today. 20th Century Fox should've lost their rights a long time ago.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Mr.Turok on Apr 16, 2021, 08:49:42 PM
I do wonder for anything AVP related, will this be a hindrance for future content of AVP?

Quote from: Samhain13 on Apr 16, 2021, 03:22:19 PM
Quote from: Kailem on Apr 16, 2021, 03:13:12 PM
If it turns out we were only days away from getting a new map and Isabelle for Hunting Grounds, and the last ever fireteam update was an American football player, that's gonna be really crappy.

So my hate for that DLC can increase even more.
I hope that the latest DLC/Update is worth it and strong enough for us in the long run....for however long this stop will keep us down.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 08:51:40 PM
Quote from: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 16, 2021, 05:26:57 PM
Quote from: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 06:42:38 AM
it could prevent Disney from making another piece of shit movie in this franchise for some time which is a good thing.

Disney hasn't made any predator movie yet dude, lol.
Their ideas for both Alien and Predator, and what they've done with Star Wars (and I'm not even SW fan) tell me everything. I can pretty much guarantee they won't make anything good out of those franchises, I wish I was wrong here, but it's Disney in nutshell. Lionsgate or Paramount should own both Alien and Predator, I can't see any other studio doing it justice today. 20th Century Fox should've lost their rights a long time ago.

Well, when they made something genuinely interesting with Star Wars in the form of The Last Jedi, the internet screamed at them incessantly and caused them to back peddle in a rather crass attempt to course correct with the shit show that is The Rise of Skywalker. I'll give them some props for taking the risk in the first place with TLJ, but those brownie points there do get stripped away after having seen the way they followed up on that movie.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 09:01:10 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 08:51:40 PM
Quote from: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 16, 2021, 05:26:57 PM
Quote from: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 06:42:38 AM
it could prevent Disney from making another piece of shit movie in this franchise for some time which is a good thing.

Disney hasn't made any predator movie yet dude, lol.
Their ideas for both Alien and Predator, and what they've done with Star Wars (and I'm not even SW fan) tell me everything. I can pretty much guarantee they won't make anything good out of those franchises, I wish I was wrong here, but it's Disney in nutshell. Lionsgate or Paramount should own both Alien and Predator, I can't see any other studio doing it justice today. 20th Century Fox should've lost their rights a long time ago.

Well, when they made something genuinely interesting with Star Wars in the form of The Last Jedi, the internet screamed at them incessantly and caused them to back peddle in a rather crass attempt to course correct with the shit show that is The Rise of Skywalker. I'll give them some props for taking the risk in the first place with TLJ, but those brownie points there do get stripped away after having seen the way they followed up on that movie.
I didn't care about The Last Jedi, I didn't hate or love it, but I can see why so many people hated it. There are some strong moments and I liked Kylo Ren/Luke in it, but the entire Finn/Rose side quest is completely pointless and the movie feels almost like intentional parody on the franchise, scenes like flying super Leia in space make me question if it was made with a straight face or not, I hope not. But if it was made with a straight face, then I have some very bad news for both Johnson and Kennedy. I guess SW fanbase didn't like self-parody/meta approach, just like respective fanbases didn't appreciate it in Alien: Ressurection or Halloween: Ressurection ahah.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 09:05:17 PM
Alien: Resurrection feels more like 90s Dark Horse schlock than self parody to me. Well, on second thought, the two might kind of be one and the same, given most of those comics from that era. :D I hate Resurrection's script, but Jeunet kills it as director - the thing just oozes style (literally oozes; the movie is gooey as hell!). I absolutely love the way he brought Whedon's shitty script to life, so I give it a pass.

I probably could have gotten into The Predator as some silly, schlocky installment if it was as well-directed as Resurrection was. But the directing there was just as awful as the script, which is a real shame as I tend to love Shane Black.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 09:11:42 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 16, 2021, 09:05:17 PM
Alien: Resurrection feels more like 90s Dark Horse schlock than self parody to me. Well, on second thought, the two might kind of be one and the same, given most of those comics from that era. :D I hate Resurrection's script, but Jeunet kills it as director - the thing just oozes style (literally oozes; the movie is gooey as hell!). I absolutely love the way he brought Whedon's shitty script to life, so I give it a pass.

I probably could have gotten into The Predator as some silly, schlocky installment if it was as well-directed as Resurrection was. But the directing there was just as awful as the script, which is a real shame as I tend to love Shane Black.
I actually agree, I kind of like Ressurection because it oozes style and personality of its director, I'd say every Alien film in Quadrilogy has unique trademark style and could be considered an artistic expression of its filmmaker and I always appreciate that, it sets Alien apart from all other franchises.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 16, 2021, 09:16:10 PM
My honest opinion's that TLJ's actually rather by the numbers, it just looks unique against the backdrop of a largely formulaic franchise, that got about as formulaic as it can with RoS.

Just completely different flavours of awful in the writing department.

20th Century Fox's reactionary, you only need look at their X-Men film line up to see that fact, Disney's stubborn and sticks to their guns consistently, when that's good it is good (Marvel Studios) when that's bad it is bad (Star Wars).
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 16, 2021, 09:55:30 PM
Perhaps Disney will flex their muscle and intimidate the brothers into a settlement out of court wherein Disney retains rights to any upcoming or future projects. The problem being is that lawyer that has dragged the F13 and Hellraiser settlement for years. Or one scenario could be like the Child's Play franchise where the studio held rights to the name and concept, which is why Don Mancini was only ever able to call his movies Chucky after Child's Play 3. And now you have a situation where the studio can make Child's Play content simultaneously with Don Mancini making his. Pretend the brothers don't win the right to the Predator name or the design but do win any content involving original script and character names like Dutch or ties to the first 2 films. Now they're allowed to do whatever they want with what they have. So you have Predator content as we now know it with films/comics/figures, while the brothers go off and make/shop around "Hunter" content.

With all that said, don't think that happens and we see this franchise come to a halt starting with the new film and comics. This will get as messy as F13.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SM on Apr 16, 2021, 09:59:03 PM
Quote from: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 02:45:03 PM
Quote from: Drukathi on Apr 16, 2021, 12:49:17 PM
I think it is worth waiting for several years in order to get a good film that respects the viewer and the franchise, than get another exploitation film, which will cause a ton of hate and fail at the box-office, like its wbroken brothers.
I think it's been decades since the last good film in the franchise. I really think someone should take away both franchises from 20th Century Fox/Disney, they are absolutely incompetent and very very stupid, Fox managed to f up both franchises for decades and Disney's first moves are even worse. They shouldn't be anywhere near both Alien and Predator, someone else should take the reins.

"someone"  :laugh:
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Bruno Borgia on Apr 16, 2021, 10:25:17 PM
Really hoping Disney wins. If the brothers win, no more AvP anything, and merchandising from NECA etc. may also be in jeopardy. It would be a catastrophe. Also Disney has way more funds that they can invest into Predator than the brothers. People don't realize how bad it is for them to get the rights.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Lost_Hunter on Apr 16, 2021, 10:31:44 PM
Wow no way, if Disney wins it's a crushing blow to creatives everywhere. They represent a larger evil. One company should not own everything. This is a franchise we love and it belongs with it's creators. Legally the rights should revert back to them. Clear right and wrong here.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: molasar on Apr 16, 2021, 10:47:39 PM
Quote from: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 08:47:07 PM
Their ideas for both Alien and Predator, and what they've done with Star Wars (and I'm not even SW fan) tell me everything.

Actually some of their ideas for SW comic books are quite good. Especially those with Darth Vader.



Quote from: Lost_Hunter on Apr 16, 2021, 10:31:44 PM
Wow no way, if Disney wins it's a crushing blow to creatives everywhere. They represent a larger evil. One company should not own everything. This is a franchise we love and it belongs with it's creators. Legally the rights should revert back to them. Clear right and wrong here.

But what is good for them if the rights cover only a space hunter concept under name "Hunter"? Not the music, not a creature design.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 16, 2021, 11:07:01 PM
Quote from: Lost_Hunter on Apr 16, 2021, 10:31:44 PM
Wow no way, if Disney wins it's a crushing blow to creatives everywhere. They represent a larger evil. One company should not own everything. This is a franchise we love and it belongs with it's creators. Legally the rights should revert back to them. Clear right and wrong here.

While I'm apt to agree with you, we don't know what the intentions are of guys who haven't done a dang thing in Hollywood in ages. For all we know they could be harboring some deep pettiness and decide, "Screw all of you! No one is getting this franchise!" and then live out the rest of their days sitting on property they don't intend on doing anything with other than gaining royalties. Also, going back into the hands of the originators isn't always a good thing. Am I saying Disney is any better? No. But at least we were set to have SOMETHING soon. A new film. New comics. Figures still going strong. And now all of that is about to come to a screeching halt.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 16, 2021, 11:20:55 PM
[Insert factually incorrect post here]
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Huggs on Apr 16, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Quote from: Lost_Hunter on Apr 16, 2021, 10:31:44 PM
Wow no way, if Disney wins it's a crushing blow to creatives everywhere. They represent a larger evil. One company should not own everything.

So Disney is the real Weyland Yutani?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: molasar on Apr 16, 2021, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 16, 2021, 11:20:55 PM
That's not how it works. They would get the rights to the intellectual property of Predator, as the property is derivative of their work. The music and creature design were made as part of telling that story.

Creature design is work for hire. There's a reason Stan Winston isn't credited in any of the movies his team didn't work on, and why nobody needed their permission to make the character.

Is it 100% for sure? Any law citations for it that specific music and creature design are part of it?

I have noticed you retracted your comment. Anyways it will be interesting to find out how it really works.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 16, 2021, 11:44:35 PM
OK, so the reason I deleted my above comment is I realised I was speaking from ignorance and decided to actually read the complaint. There are two key points that basically address everything we're worried about (emphasis mine):

Quote25. Under the termination provisions, prior "derivative works"  "can continue to be" distributed as before. 17 U.S.C. 203(b)(I). Plaintiff's recovery of the U.S. copyright to their Screenplay therefor does no prevent Defendants or their licensees from continuing to exploit prior derivative works, including the original Predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films.

26. In addition, because the the Copyright Act has no extra-territorial application, the foreign rights to Plaintiff's Screenplay remains with TCFF. As a result, after the effective date of Plaintiff's termination, new derivative Predator works would simply require a license from the Plaintiffs, thereby enabling the authors to fairly participate with others at a level reflective of their work's market value. Accordingly, Plaintiffs' exercise of their copyright termination does not prevent the exploitation of the Predator franchise; it simply allows its original creators to, at long last, participate in the financial rewards of their creation, just as Congress had intended.

Basically the law they're invoking was designed to allow authors to re-negotiate their cut for their works after the market value of their work was proved with time.

This is the key thing. When they sold Hunters and royalties were assigned, nobody had any idea if it would take off and spawn a decades-long franchise, or crash and burn. Time has proved the market value of the piece; this law is specifically designed to allow authors to have better bargaining power to get more of the value their IP created.

So is it about money?

Sure.

But it's about giving original authors the legal framework to get better compensation should their works spawn multi-million/billion dollar franchises, without being stuck with pennies-and-cents royalties grossly disproportionate to the actual value of the piece.

Also worth noting, this law is not applicable to work-for-hire. The reason the Thomas Brothers have this option is they wrote Hunters on spec, not commission.

It also states that the Brothers have presented two alternate dates, in 2022 and 2023, in response to Disney's claims that they're actually entitled to a longer waiting period (they're not, but they figured they'd hedge their bets and present the options just in case).

So if the Brothers win the case and Predator dries up, it's because Disney/Fox is too f**king stingy to pay their licenses, not because they lost the rights.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Local Trouble on Apr 17, 2021, 12:50:45 AM
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 17, 2021, 01:38:49 AM
Ooh, also interesting: this only applies to works after Jan 1 1978, so I'm pretty sure O'Bannon's estate can't pull this with Alien.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 17, 2021, 02:12:36 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 16, 2021, 11:44:35 PM
OK, so the reason I deleted my above comment is I realised I was speaking from ignorance and decided to actually read the complaint. There are two key points that basically address everything we're worried about (emphasis mine):

Quote25. Under the termination provisions, prior "derivative works"  "can continue to be" distributed as before. 17 U.S.C. 203(b)(I). Plaintiff's recovery of the U.S. copyright to their Screenplay therefor does no prevent Defendants or their licensees from continuing to exploit prior derivative works, including the original Predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films.

26. In addition, because the the Copyright Act has no extra-territorial application, the foreign rights to Plaintiff's Screenplay remains with TCFF. As a result, after the effective date of Plaintiff's termination, new derivative Predator works would simply require a license from the Plaintiffs, thereby enabling the authors to fairly participate with others at a level reflective of their work's market value. Accordingly, Plaintiffs' exercise of their copyright termination does not prevent the exploitation of the Predator franchise; it simply allows its original creators to, at long last, participate in the financial rewards of their creation, just as Congress had intended.

Basically the law they're invoking was designed to allow authors to re-negotiate their cut for their works after the market value of their work was proved with time.

This is the key thing. When they sold Hunters and royalties were assigned, nobody had any idea if it would take off and spawn a decades-long franchise, or crash and burn. Time has proved the market value of the piece; this law is specifically designed to allow authors to have better bargaining power to get more of the value their IP created.

So is it about money?

Sure.

But it's about giving original authors the legal framework to get better compensation should their works spawn multi-million/billion dollar franchises, without being stuck with pennies-and-cents royalties grossly disproportionate to the actual value of the piece.

Also worth noting, this law is not applicable to work-for-hire. The reason the Thomas Brothers have this option is they wrote Hunters on spec, not commission.

It also states that the Brothers have presented two alternate dates, in 2022 and 2023, in response to Disney's claims that they're actually entitled to a longer waiting period (they're not, but they figured they'd hedge their bets and present the options just in case).

So if the Brothers win the case and Predator dries up, it's because Disney/Fox is too f**king stingy to pay their licenses, not because they lost the rights.


I read it too and I believe your second post still has some inaccuracies SiL.

QuoteBasically the law they're invoking was designed to allow authors to re-negotiate their cut for their works after the market value of their work was proved with time.

The law they are invoking is The Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §203(a), that provides authors with the inalienable right to recapture the copyright to their creative work, after a lengthy waiting period, by statutorily terminating without cause prior transfer(s) of copyright, provided advance notice of termination is given and accepted for recordation by the U.S. Copyright Office.

They're pursuing ownership back. But this only applies to US copyright, not foreign.

QuoteThis is the key thing. When they sold Hunters and royalties were assigned, nobody had any idea if it would take off and spawn a decades-long franchise, or crash and burn. Time has proved the market value of the piece; this law is specifically designed to allow authors to have better bargaining power to get more of the value their IP created.

It's not to obtain better bargaining power. It's to obtain all the power in the US on future projects, the actual US copyright which won't require them to bargain at all. They can dictate US license fees as they see fit.

QuoteSo if the Brothers win the case and Predator dries up, it's because Disney/Fox is too f**king stingy to pay their licenses, not because they lost the rights.

If the Thomas Brothers win, they don't have to license Predator to Disney in the US for new Predator projects. Now the law allows Disney the exclusive opportunity to negotiate a US re-license of Predator with the Thomas Brothers after the Thomas Brothers served notice, but that ends the effective date of the termination. And that would also be recognizing and accepting the Thomas Brothers claim, like Skydance did with Cameron on Terminator.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 17, 2021, 02:20:05 AM
QuoteThe law they are invoking is The Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §203(a), that provides authors with the inalienable right to recapture the copyright to their creative work, after a lengthy waiting period, by statutorily terminating without cause prior transfer(s) of copyright, provided advance notice of termination is given and accepted for recordation by the U.S. Copyright Office.

They're pursuing ownership back. But this only applies to US copyright, not foreign.
The very next paragraph of the claim (Paragraph 6, Page 2, under "Nature of the Complaint") points out that the termination right was specifically enacted to address the unequal bargaining position of the authors. This is why I specifically referred to the nature of the law they were invoking.

Whether the Brothers intend to use the law to shut down all future productions is unknown; we don't know their motive. But they hardly win from this if they just use it to take the rights and shut down future productions. Disney is still free to exploit existing derivations to its heart's content, as well as retaining the rights in overseas territories. Skulls is already in production and wouldn't be affected.

I'd like to imagine they're not being petty, and just want a bigger slice of the considerable pie their spec script created.


EDIT

On further reading Skulls might be affected, but the wording would allow Disney lawyers to argue the exploitation began before the date and so is protected under the provision of "existing derivative work".
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 17, 2021, 02:44:54 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 17, 2021, 02:20:05 AM
QuoteThe law they are invoking is The Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §203(a), that provides authors with the inalienable right to recapture the copyright to their creative work, after a lengthy waiting period, by statutorily terminating without cause prior transfer(s) of copyright, provided advance notice of termination is given and accepted for recordation by the U.S. Copyright Office.

They're pursuing ownership back. But this only applies to US copyright, not foreign.
The very next paragraph of the claim (Paragraph 6, Page 2, under "Nature of the Complaint") points out that the termination right was specifically enacted to address the unequal bargaining position of the authors. This is why I specifically referred to the nature of the law they were invoking.

Yes, it's basically a history lesson why the US Copyright Law was changed:

"6. The termination right was specifically enacted by Congress in recognition of the unequal bargaining position of authors and to enable them to finally secure the financial benefits of their work, sold inevitably before its value could be fairly tested in the marketplace. See H.R. Rep. No. 94-1476, at 124"

I'm definitely not predicting or pretending to know the Thomas Brothers' motives at all. All I was saying is they can stop all future business with Disney in the US if they win. They can produce a new Predator television show here in the US, or a film here in the US, both with different studios, and then those studio would negotiate a split foreign distribution deal / joint production if they wanted to release it overseas. They might just agree to split the production costs and keep their respective territory based revenue. I think there's already been precedent for that.

We'll see!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 17, 2021, 02:54:13 AM
Yeah, split rights like that aren't unprecedented. But the wording of the claim gives me hope that they're just after a better deal, not to go nuclear on the whole thing. It leans heavily on "we just want a deal based on the known value of the property", not "we want to exploit this how we see fit". But that could be legalese.

It's gonna be interesting to watch.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 17, 2021, 03:10:57 AM
US copyright law should protect Crabators separately, as their own original thing  >:(
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 17, 2021, 03:16:53 AM
My hope is that at the very least they allow for production to continue with Skulls. It would be heartbreaking to those that dedicated a couple of years to get this going (and bring jobs to many in Canada) only for it to be derailed so suddenly. Whatever happens to anything else in the future happens. But current projects should be allowed to continue.

Man, I just don't feel good about any of this.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 17, 2021, 04:08:38 AM
The law specifically states that exploitations started before the cutoff are allowed, and I imagine Disney would successfully argue this counts.

It could go the other way but I think that one will go Disney's way.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Enjoy on Apr 17, 2021, 05:16:41 AM
The thomas brothers must have wrote some predator scripts over the pandemic! I wish!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 17, 2021, 10:25:05 AM
What a mess.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: LSL on Apr 17, 2021, 11:46:20 AM
Disney can look at the financial results of the latest films involving Predator and simply give up. The character has not brought any resounding profit, and sometimes even losses, as in the last film. But they will not give up that easily, and that could be the start of a long legal dispute. Apparently we will have a considerable gap from the space hunter, and the movie "Skulls", which was already scheduled to start recording, will be canceled.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 17, 2021, 12:40:30 PM
Quote from: LSL on Apr 17, 2021, 11:46:20 AM
Disney can look at the financial results of the latest films involving Predator and simply give up. The character has not brought any resounding profit, and sometimes even losses, as in the last film. But they will not give up that easily, and that could be the start of a long legal dispute. Apparently we will have a considerable gap from the space hunter, and the movie "Skulls", which was already scheduled to start recording, will be canceled.

First thing's first. Predator films have all been very profitable long-term. Even if the initial box-office tally of say "The Predator" was 160 million off an 88 million budget and you factor promotional dollars and say hey - that's not very good - these films make revenue year, upon year, upon year with sales and rentals, both consumer and industry. And apparently to directors like Predator 2's Stephen Hopkins, those residual checks they get are pretty good!  :)

Second, none of us should use definitives like SKULLS "will be canceled". This whole problem might be pushed out to June 2022 or January 2023.

Disney appears to be first and foremost  challenging the validity of the Thomas Brothers  claimed copyright termination date of April 17th 2021.

Now it appears in the lawsuit that the Thomas Bros perhaps are even conceding that date may not hold up, so they included alternative dates in case "in the unlikely event the Court finds the Termination Notice is invalid, Plaintiffs' Second Termination Notice or Third Termination Notice is valid, with effective termination dates of June 14, 2022 or January 13, 2023, respectively." 

So this is something we might not be dealing with as fans until 2022 or 2023 and Skulls, Predator comics, everything will continue this year without any threat of injunction.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 17, 2021, 01:36:53 PM
The interesting thing is Disney isn't questioning the validity of their claim, rather the validity of their process for enacting it/the timeline they're entitled to.

So even Disney's lawyers seem to concede this will happen - the real question is when.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: TomT on Apr 17, 2021, 02:33:04 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 16, 2021, 09:59:03 PM
Quote from: TomT on Apr 16, 2021, 02:45:03 PM
Quote from: Drukathi on Apr 16, 2021, 12:49:17 PM
I think it is worth waiting for several years in order to get a good film that respects the viewer and the franchise, than get another exploitation film, which will cause a ton of hate and fail at the box-office, like its wbroken brothers.
I think it's been decades since the last good film in the franchise. I really think someone should take away both franchises from 20th Century Fox/Disney, they are absolutely incompetent and very very stupid, Fox managed to f up both franchises for decades and Disney's first moves are even worse. They shouldn't be anywhere near both Alien and Predator, someone else should take the reins.

"someone"  :laugh:
I threw Lionsgate and Paramount as "someone"/alternatives.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: LSL on Apr 17, 2021, 03:47:50 PM
@voodoo magic, I hope you're right


If Thomas brothers wins, what they get? Only the bases of the first script? I mean, the visual of the creature and the universe built over the years is also included?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: TomT on Apr 17, 2021, 04:25:58 PM
Quote from: LSL on Apr 17, 2021, 03:47:50 PMI mean, the visual of the creature and the universe built over the years is also included?
Probably. The writer of the original Friday The 13th won the rights despite the fact that Jason appeared as the villain only in the second one.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Master on Apr 17, 2021, 04:37:08 PM
Quote from: LSL on Apr 17, 2021, 03:47:50 PM
@voodoo magic, I hope you're right


If Thomas brothers wins, what they get? Only the bases of the first script? I mean, the visual of the creature and the universe built over the years is also included?

They also did wrote Predator 2, when whole design of the creature was well known. I don't know if it counts,  I won't pretend I know the US law.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: molasar on Apr 17, 2021, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: LSL on Apr 17, 2021, 03:47:50 PM
If Thomas brothers wins, what they get? Only the bases of the first script? I mean, the visual of the creature and the universe built over the years is also included?

It means that no one can rerelease the first film and profit on new products without their say.


Quote from: Master on Apr 17, 2021, 04:37:08 PM
They also did wrote Predator 2, when whole design of the creature was well known. I don't know if it counts,  I won't pretend I know the US law.

The difference will be if they were hired to write it or had it already written.


Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 17, 2021, 04:58:11 PM
Quote from: molasar on Apr 17, 2021, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: LSL on Apr 17, 2021, 03:47:50 PM
If Thomas brothers wins, what they get? Only the bases of the first script? I mean, the visual of the creature and the universe built over the years is also included?

It means that no one can rerelease the first film and profit on new products without their say.

If the Thomas Brothers win, they'll only have 100% rights of future productions, not pre-existing.

- - -

"Under the termination provisions, prior "derivative works" "can continue to be" distributed as before.  17 U.S.C. § 203(b)(1).  Plaintiffs' recovery of the U.S. copyright to their Screenplay therefore does not prevent Defendants (Disney) or their licensees from continuing to exploit prior derivative works, including the original Predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films."

- - -

And let's all note for the canon record, that even the Thomas Brothers considers the AvP films as sequels!  8)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 17, 2021, 05:03:32 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 17, 2021, 04:58:11 PM
Quote from: molasar on Apr 17, 2021, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: LSL on Apr 17, 2021, 03:47:50 PM
If Thomas brothers wins, what they get? Only the bases of the first script? I mean, the visual of the creature and the universe built over the years is also included?

It means that no one can rerelease the first film and profit on new products without their say.

If the Thomas Brothers win, they'll only have 100% rights of future productions, not pre-existing.

- - -

"Under the termination provisions, prior "derivative works" "can continue to be" distributed as before.  17 U.S.C. § 203(b)(1).  Plaintiffs' recovery of the U.S. copyright to their Screenplay therefore does not prevent Defendants (Disney) or their licensees from continuing to exploit prior derivative works, including the original Predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films."

- - -

And let's all note for the canon record, that even the Thomas Brothers considers the AvP films as sequels!  8)


Meaning Skulls being a future production, which could be halted? Guess we'll all find out soon or come June when it's supposed to shoot.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 17, 2021, 05:13:27 PM
It's all based on how a judge initially interprets the dates and evidence itself. Only a judge can order a preliminary injunction.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: molasar on Apr 17, 2021, 05:17:12 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 17, 2021, 04:58:11 PM
If the Thomas Brothers win, they'll only have 100% rights of future productions, not pre-existing.

- - -

"Under the termination provisions, prior "derivative works" "can continue to be" distributed as before.  17 U.S.C. § 203(b)(1).  Plaintiffs' recovery of the U.S. copyright to their Screenplay therefore does not prevent Defendants (Disney) or their licensees from continuing to exploit prior derivative works, including the original Predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films."

- - -

And let's all note for the canon record, that even the Thomas Brothers considers the AvP films as sequels!  8)

Ok, I just took it that the first film is still tied somehow to their screenplay. Thus is a base product for the franchise.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Galactus123 on Apr 17, 2021, 07:48:37 PM
Has Illfonic said anything about this? I hope we still get more content and patches for Hunting Grounds.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 12:16:40 AM
A friend in the industry (and close to Fox) thinks the best thing for the brothers to do is take a settlement if Disney offers, otherwise they'll have to shop around the rights again if that is what they want to do. Either way, they'll get significant money. If rights revert to them, he assumes the franchise will die off. He also thinks an injunction will take place ceasing production of Skulls and the comics. Ugh. Just... UGH.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 18, 2021, 12:25:43 AM
Isn't that a bit of a stretch though ? I mean it's too early to tell right ?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 12:33:49 AM
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 18, 2021, 12:25:43 AM
Isn't that a bit of a stretch though ? I mean it's too early to tell right ?

Of course it's too early, but he's been in the industry for over 30 years and knows how messy these legal things can get. I trust his experience and knowledge what goes behind the scenes, and if he doesn't feel good about it, then neither do I.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kailem on Apr 18, 2021, 02:48:29 AM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 12:16:40 AM
A friend in the industry (and close to Fox) thinks the best thing for the brothers to do is take a settlement if Disney offers, otherwise they'll have to shop around the rights again if that is what they want to do. Either way, they'll get significant money. If rights revert to them, he assumes the franchise will die off.

Honestly, if they did end up getting the rights back and shopping them around, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what would happen.

The fact that we're getting another movie so soon after the failure of The Predator feels like a sign that Disney is moving fast to try and make money from the property (yes it was conceived before the Fox takeover, but if they'd wanted to they could have canned it like they did with various other Fox movies, but instead they chose to move forward). It was part of the deal when they paid to buy Fox and it's now a part of their catalogue, and something they clearly want to profit from. If they no longer owned it, and had to pay to get the rights back to make any more movies/comics/whatever, there's no way they would. It's a franchise that has value, but when you're talking about the same company that now owns Marvel, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, even Alien, they're not going to bother.

Obviously that would leave other studios to potentially pick it up, but I'm just not confident that any of them would. Not after they look at how less than amazingly well the last movie did.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 18, 2021, 04:49:40 AM
Jim & John Thomas vs. Disney: Examining the battle for Predator
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/04/18/jim-john-thomas-vs-disney-examining-the-battle-for-predator/
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Drukathi on Apr 18, 2021, 06:47:02 AM
Quoteit understandably drove much of the fan community into quite a state of turmoil.
QuoteMost of the distress was due to the uncertainty regarding what would happen to the current Disney era Predator projects in the works, most notably the Dan Trachtenberg directed "Skulls"

;D ;D ;D

State of turmoil is synopsis of this pseudo-predator.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Stitch on Apr 18, 2021, 06:52:37 AM
I'd guess that Skulls will likely be OK, since it was in production prior to the lawsuit. No guarantee as it'll be down to the judge's decision, but the wording implies to me that it probably will.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Sadfsce on Apr 18, 2021, 07:48:25 AM
Whoever wins, we lose
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 18, 2021, 10:27:32 AM
Neat ! Precision and clarity in this article ! Thanks guys !
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: irn on Apr 18, 2021, 10:30:04 AM
Skulls might be okay since it started production before the rights reverting, but I'm not 100% sure how that all works. If it is affected then they might just retroactively change it by replacing all the Predator-related things with something similar but different and essentially create a new IP.
But yeah I can see them sitting on the rights and there never being any more Predator films to stop it getting ran into the ground like Terminator was.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 18, 2021, 11:04:12 AM
Or they just negotiate a bigger piece of the pie -- which is basically what any settlement Disney could propose would amount to anyway.

There's potential for disaster but there's also potential for it just ending up them renegotiating the rights and selling it straight back like nothing happened.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 18, 2021, 11:12:29 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 18, 2021, 11:04:12 AM
Or they just negotiate a bigger piece of the pie -- which is basically what any settlement Disney could propose would amount to anyway.

This is the end result I'm imagining, if anything does indeed change at all.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 18, 2021, 11:16:24 AM
The wording of the complaint heavily angles that way.

People use F13 as an example of it killing the franchise, but the problem there is there's a huge contention over whether the provision was even allowed to be invoked in the first place. The original F13 script was written on request of the producer, Sean Cunningham, which would make it work-for-hire -- but because they never made a formal written agreement calling it that, the author said it was legally a spec script.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 18, 2021, 01:11:44 PM
I found this pretty humorous. Not the video itself but the picture they used. That's not a Thomas Brother. Who the heck is that guy?  :laugh:

(https://i.ibb.co/pwQXz2D/Screenshot-20210418-083031-You-Tube.jpg)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 18, 2021, 01:21:49 PM
It looks like home brand Miguel Ferrer  :laugh:
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 18, 2021, 01:31:53 PM
Now I miss Miguel Ferrer. :(
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 18, 2021, 01:32:56 PM
Well this is embarrassing, they got it from Xenopedia. :-X

Xenopedia is using pictures of twin brothers John and Jim Thomas, owners of north Albuquerque restaurant El Pinto. ((facepalm))

(https://i.ibb.co/x5RMgnb/IMG-20210418-091928.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Zc8yj4h/IMG-20210418-092034.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/H2NjVXJ/01-elpinto-600-1200xx600-338-0-31.jpg)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 18, 2021, 02:09:45 PM
That is about the most "fan wiki" thing I can possibly imagine. :D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 18, 2021, 02:38:40 PM
(https://i.gifer.com/4cXU.gif)

The inevitable result of not cleaning it up.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 18, 2021, 02:39:06 PM
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

God damn it my cheeks f**king hurt !
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: irn on Apr 18, 2021, 02:53:30 PM
Plot Twist: John and Jim Thomas, owners of north Albuquerque restaurant El Pinto, actually created Predator.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Engineer on Apr 18, 2021, 02:58:23 PM
Omg that's hysterical lmfao
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Apr 18, 2021, 03:01:42 PM
Barring a recent photo I'm pretty sure they could've used that one photo from an interview they did. It's even the first result in Google Images. Which also is from here apparently.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/IMG_20210415_214029-701x531.jpg)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 18, 2021, 03:08:49 PM
They are welcome to use this one.  ;D

(https://i.ibb.co/v4PFXNh/IMG-20210418-110735.jpg)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 18, 2021, 03:12:08 PM
I bet they just leave the thing as it is just like the Michael Bishop page for example.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: HumanPredator on Apr 18, 2021, 04:52:26 PM
This happened because the brothers transferred the rights to Fox(then disney when they bought them) because copywrite lasts a lifetime correct?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: David on Apr 18, 2021, 06:38:59 PM
I didnt read the second article. Do your think Skulls wont happen?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 06:56:48 PM
Quote from: David on Apr 18, 2021, 06:38:59 PM
I didnt read the second article. Do your think Skulls wont happen?

Possibility it gets cancelled. No way of knowing until judge ruling.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Drukathi on Apr 18, 2021, 07:22:53 PM
When?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 18, 2021, 07:50:39 PM
Well that would be a shame. I really want to see this movie with a female protagonist, plus the setting is something that some of us have been waiting for.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Apr 18, 2021, 07:57:54 PM
Are you afraid that The Predator might be the last movie of the franchise ?

Spoiler
(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-9.gif)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l2Je4YzW2Aw9X0DfO/giphy.gif)

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/xl5QdxfNonh3q/200.gif)

(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-17.gif)

(https://i.gifer.com/2qoT.gif)

[close]
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 18, 2021, 08:02:47 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 18, 2021, 07:57:54 PM
Are you afraid that The Predator might be the last movie of the franchise ?

Spoiler
(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-9.gif)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l2Je4YzW2Aw9X0DfO/giphy.gif)

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/xl5QdxfNonh3q/200.gif)

(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-17.gif)

(https://i.gifer.com/2qoT.gif)

[close]

(https://s4.gifyu.com/images/tenor-22998264adad5f8997.gif)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Apr 18, 2021, 08:11:58 PM
https://youtu.be/_vfWu10WjDw?t=325 (https://youtu.be/_vfWu10WjDw?t=325)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 08:14:04 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 18, 2021, 08:02:47 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 18, 2021, 07:57:54 PM
Are you afraid that The Predator might be the last movie of the franchise ?

Spoiler
(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-9.gif)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l2Je4YzW2Aw9X0DfO/giphy.gif)

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/xl5QdxfNonh3q/200.gif)

(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-17.gif)

(https://i.gifer.com/2qoT.gif)

[close]

(https://s4.gifyu.com/images/tenor-22998264adad5f8997.gif)

Unless Disney cuts a deal that the brothers can't walk away from, I don't see how the courts rule in favor of Disney. Very well could be the last film we ever see.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Apr 18, 2021, 08:30:45 PM
They'd have to negotiate with them for future projects. The only way I see things going to an absolute halt is if they play things like Toho does with Godzilla and does a 10 year hiatus. I don't really see them doing that but you never know.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 18, 2021, 08:34:04 PM
Or they just don't want to license it out anymore.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 18, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
It's respectable I guess.  :-\

But...can you imagine someone doing a blockbuster rip off of the Predator, like that (initially) ripoff from Superman. :laugh:

(https://i.ibb.co/SVSYc1z/supreme41-superman1.jpg)

Of course I don't want that, it's just that I'm worried about not seeing the Predator in a new installment.  :'(

Quote from: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 08:14:04 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 18, 2021, 08:02:47 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 18, 2021, 07:57:54 PM
Are you afraid that The Predator might be the last movie of the franchise ?

Spoiler
(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-9.gif)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l2Je4YzW2Aw9X0DfO/giphy.gif)

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/xl5QdxfNonh3q/200.gif)

(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-17.gif)

(https://i.gifer.com/2qoT.gif)

[close]

(https://s4.gifyu.com/images/tenor-22998264adad5f8997.gif)

Unless Disney cuts a deal that the brothers can't walk away from, I don't see how the courts rule in favor of Disney. Very well could be the last film we ever see.

Damn! I don't want the Predator to end this way.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 10:22:19 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 18, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
It's respectable I guess.  :-\

But...can you imagine someone doing a blockbuster rip off of the Predator, like that (initially) ripoff from Superman. :laugh:

(https://i.ibb.co/SVSYc1z/supreme41-superman1.jpg)

Of course I don't want that, it's just that I'm worried about not seeing the Predator in a new installment.  :'(

Quote from: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 08:14:04 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 18, 2021, 08:02:47 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 18, 2021, 07:57:54 PM
Are you afraid that The Predator might be the last movie of the franchise ?

Spoiler
(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-9.gif)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l2Je4YzW2Aw9X0DfO/giphy.gif)

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/xl5QdxfNonh3q/200.gif)

(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-17.gif)

(https://i.gifer.com/2qoT.gif)

[close]

(https://s4.gifyu.com/images/tenor-22998264adad5f8997.gif)

Unless Disney cuts a deal that the brothers can't walk away from, I don't see how the courts rule in favor of Disney. Very well could be the last film we ever see.

Damn! I don't want the Predator to end this way.

Neither do I, but it's the sad reality we're faced with. The unfortunate truth that all things come to an end. I wish we could this Skulls installment as much as anyone, but my stomach aches knowing it won't happen. Sorry to be so pessimistic, but the courts will likely side with the brothers.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 18, 2021, 10:26:33 PM
Yeah a little early to tell.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: RidgeTop on Apr 18, 2021, 10:36:32 PM
Hicks, Voodoo, and I discuss:

Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Mr.Turok on Apr 18, 2021, 10:44:46 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 18, 2021, 07:57:54 PM
Are you afraid that The Predator might be the last movie of the franchise ?

Spoiler
(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-9.gif)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l2Je4YzW2Aw9X0DfO/giphy.gif)

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/xl5QdxfNonh3q/200.gif)

(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-17.gif)

(https://i.gifer.com/2qoT.gif)

[close]

(https://i.imgur.com/T7Qv7k7.png)

Hey, remember the part in the document where they considered all 5 movies, Predator, Predator 2, Predators, AVP, and AVPR, as part of their  "five sequel films" and NOT The Predator  :laugh:

QuoteUnder the termination provisions, prior "derivative works" "can continue to be" distributed as before. 17 U.S.C. § 203(b)(1). Plaintiffs' recovery of the U.S. copyright to their Screenplay therefore does not prevent Defendants or their licensees from continuing to exploit prior derivative works, including the original Predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films.

Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 18, 2021, 10:48:28 PM
Original film and five sequels.

People acting like the Brothers getting the rights back immediately means the end of the franchise are being unnecessarily pessimistic. It's a possibility, not a certainty.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Engineer on Apr 18, 2021, 11:06:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Turok on Apr 18, 2021, 10:44:46 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 18, 2021, 07:57:54 PM
Are you afraid that The Predator might be the last movie of the franchise ?

Spoiler
(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-9.gif)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l2Je4YzW2Aw9X0DfO/giphy.gif)

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/xl5QdxfNonh3q/200.gif)

(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/evil-laugh-icegif-17.gif)

(https://i.gifer.com/2qoT.gif)

[close]

(https://i.imgur.com/T7Qv7k7.png)

Hey, remember the part in the document where they considered all 5 movies, Predator, Predator 2, Predators, AVP, and AVPR, as part of their  "five sequel films" and NOT The Predator  :laugh:

QuoteUnder the termination provisions, prior "derivative works" "can continue to be" distributed as before. 17 U.S.C. § 203(b)(1). Plaintiffs' recovery of the U.S. copyright to their Screenplay therefore does not prevent Defendants or their licensees from continuing to exploit prior derivative works, including the original Predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films.

"Original predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films"

1. Predator 2
2. AvP
3. AvP: Requiem
4. Predators
5. The predator
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 18, 2021, 10:48:28 PM
Original film and five sequels.

People acting like the Brothers getting the rights back immediately means the end of the franchise are being unnecessarily pessimistic. It's a possibility, not a certainty.

It's not so much the possibility of an end, but more that this year was set to have some decent amount of Predator content and things to talk about and/or speculate. And all that could come to a screeching halt or end depending on judge's ruling. That's the awful part. We KNOW a new film is in the works, but that could stop. We KNOW new comics were coming. That could stop. We KNOW new updates for the game were coming. Again... stop. If this had occurred when none of us were privy to any of this, we wouldn't feel this downtrodden. In fact, we all would probably largely welcome it because nothing was happening with the franchise anyway, right? But that's not true. Content was on its way, and now it could be YEARS before anything. As a fan, do you not agree that sucks?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: bb-15 on Apr 19, 2021, 12:34:50 AM
I saw that YouTube video "predator legal battle discussion - Thomas Bros. v. Disney"; I appreciate the information.
- What this highlights for me is how convoluted the US copyright system is. Where film rights belong to a studio but then the rights can revert back to another copyright holder if a film production of the copyrighted property is not done quickly enough.

In the Thomas Bros. v. Disney case there isn't even an agreement about what the deadline date should be! The lawsuit admits that there could be other dates. In the meantime the Thomas Bros. are trying to get an injunction to stop future productions including for "Skulls". Ugh!

:-(
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 19, 2021, 03:55:00 AM
Quote from: RidgeTop on Apr 18, 2021, 10:36:32 PM
Hicks, Voodoo, and I discuss:



Thanks!




Quote from: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 18, 2021, 10:48:28 PM
Original film and five sequels.

People acting like the Brothers getting the rights back immediately means the end of the franchise are being unnecessarily pessimistic. It's a possibility, not a certainty.

It's not so much the possibility of an end, but more that this year was set to have some decent amount of Predator content and things to talk about and/or speculate. And all that could come to a screeching halt or end depending on judge's ruling. That's the awful part. We KNOW a new film is in the works, but that could stop. We KNOW new comics were coming. That could stop. We KNOW new updates for the game were coming. Again... stop. If this had occurred when none of us were privy to any of this, we wouldn't feel this downtrodden. In fact, we all would probably largely welcome it because nothing was happening with the franchise anyway, right? But that's not true. Content was on its way, and now it could be YEARS before anything. As a fan, do you not agree that sucks?


It may be too early, but fear is normal. We are fans aren't we?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 04:05:34 AM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 18, 2021, 10:48:28 PM
Original film and five sequels.

People acting like the Brothers getting the rights back immediately means the end of the franchise are being unnecessarily pessimistic. It's a possibility, not a certainty.

It's not so much the possibility of an end, but more that this year was set to have some decent amount of Predator content and things to talk about and/or speculate. And all that could come to a screeching halt or end depending on judge's ruling. That's the awful part. We KNOW a new film is in the works, but that could stop. We KNOW new comics were coming. That could stop. We KNOW new updates for the game were coming. Again... stop. If this had occurred when none of us were privy to any of this, we wouldn't feel this downtrodden. In fact, we all would probably largely welcome it because nothing was happening with the franchise anyway, right? But that's not true. Content was on its way, and now it could be YEARS before anything. As a fan, do you not agree that sucks?
The Brothers filed their intent five years ago. The only thing this makes me is annoyed at Fox/Disney for not sorting this shit out already.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 19, 2021, 04:54:35 AM
Another addition to the list of Fox blunders.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 05:02:56 AM
Disney's held the property since 2019 and clearly developed plans to continue to exploit it; they maybe should've done their homework. They responded to the claim in January; again, that's four months they could've done something rather than throw up a limp-wristed legal speed bump.

Keep in mind there's actually nothing they can do to stop it. But they could've at least tried to work out a deal before putting Skulls and the comics into action.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 19, 2021, 05:04:50 AM
I'm not saying Disney's any better.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 19, 2021, 05:34:06 AM
Well given they've been working on Skulls for at least 4 years, Disney didn't do the homework that Fox didn't do either.  :-\

https://twitter.com/DannyTRS/status/1329919692157444096
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 05:42:49 AM
Quote from: RidgeTop on Apr 18, 2021, 10:36:32 PM
Hicks, Voodoo, and I discuss:

https://youtu.be/7VAA5BGOXf4
Great discussion!

One thing that stood out; at about 16 minutes VooDoo says that this case isn't unique because of Superman and F13, but there's actually quite a big difference here.

The Superman rights issue had nothing to do with this particular provision; the issue stemmed from whether one of the creators had or had not actually transferred rights to the other back in the 1930s. The estate of one of the original co-creators contended that he hadn't, and so they had the rights to the character. The courts found otherwise.

With F13, it's actually quite muddy whether the provision could be invoked at all. The original script was written because the producer asked the writer to put something together that would ride the post-Halloween gravy train. This would make the script a work-for-hire, and thus ineligible. However, nothing was ever put onto paper explicitly declaring the script a work for hire, and so the provision was invoked. The appeal seems to be based around clarifying whether a verbal agreement is legally binding.

This is actually the first time (as far as anyone seems aware) that this specific provision has been used pretty unambiguously, following the specific steps laid out in its use. There's no contention this was a spec script, and the Brothers filed their intent well within the guidelines. Disney's entire counter-claim is that the date they gave was too early, not that they aren't allowed to get the rights back.


Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 19, 2021, 05:34:06 AM
Well given they've been working on Skulls for at least 4 years, Disney didn't do the homework that Fox didn't do either.  :-\

https://twitter.com/DannyTRS/status/1329919692157444096
4 years ago they had time to make and release the film inside the guidelines, though. They only started casting and location scouting in the last few months, when the clock was running down.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 19, 2021, 06:44:44 AM
But what about trademark ??? I thought the trademark lasts forever.  :-\

Quote from: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 05:42:49 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 19, 2021, 05:34:06 AM
Well given they've been working on Skulls for at least 4 years, Disney didn't do the homework that Fox didn't do either.  :-\

https://twitter.com/DannyTRS/status/1329919692157444096
4 years ago they had time to make and release the film inside the guidelines, though. They only started casting and location scouting in the last few months, when the clock was running down.

Very true.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 07:08:43 AM
Trademarks can be renewed in perpetuity, yes. So Steamboat Willy will be going out of copyright soon (This year I think? Or it's already there), but Mickey Mouse is still a trademarked character.

And there's the rub. The Brothers get the copyright to their script; but if they wanted to shop it around, presumably the trademarks are still held at Fox/Disney. They'd need to sell it as a completely new adaptation, I think. But Disney/Fox couldn't continue to exploit the trademark beyond what's already made, as it would rely on the copyright of the original script.

Which is one of many reasons I'm pretty sure they just want to use this legal tool to renegotiate their license, not kill the franchise. But we won't know until it happens.

EDIT

A friend of mine is a trademark lawyer so I'm running this by her. Very curious to hear what she says!

EDIT

On the face of it, she says they wouldn't be allowed to use the trademarks without permission. So if they sold the rights elsewhere, it would need to be a new adaptation, or with Fox's blessing.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 19, 2021, 08:50:25 AM
So either it's with Disney or it's dead, got it.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 08:55:43 AM
Yes, which further points to this just being them exercising their right to get a better deal, not give the franchise to someone else.

(Of course she doesn't know the case in detail and is only giving her opinion based on the case summary).
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Valaquen on Apr 19, 2021, 10:05:50 AM
Honestly, I always support the creators in issues like this. If there's no more Predator comics or movies I won't really weep. It's a cash grab for the studio every time and some fans are gluttons who simply want to consume endlessly (I know I'll be pilloried for that :laugh:).
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 10:49:40 AM
Has anyone been able to find Disney's counterclaim? A few sites quote it, but I can't find the text in full.

Apparently in January they said "We have more time" and now they're saying "hey judge these guys totally didn't file it properly please stop them because we're spending so much time and money on the sequel already."
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Drukathi on Apr 19, 2021, 11:18:44 AM
When will the decision?

The 17th has already passed.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 19, 2021, 12:15:45 PM
Quote from: Drukathi on Apr 19, 2021, 11:18:44 AM
When will the decision?

The 17th has already passed.

The legal system can be very slow. Just look at how long it's taking the Friday the 13th issue.

With that said, considering Skulls is supposed to start shooting in June, the hope is that Disney and the brothers can resolve this (favoring both parties but in which Disney retains rights) by the shooting date. So basically now until end of May we MIGHT hear something.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 19, 2021, 01:29:59 PM
The day the Thomas Brothers attorney filed this in the US District Court just literally happened on Thursday, April 15th.  So after all the appropriate filings from both parties, the court will set a date. So now we wait. I assume it could be at least a couple weeks, perhaps a month, even two before this saga continues.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: LiquidMonster on Apr 19, 2021, 03:01:34 PM
99% of lawyers will NEVER advise going to court. You almost always want the issue settled between parties before it gets to that point.

Now the issue that is bigger here IMO is whether the Thomas Bros. are entitled to the "Predator" design that Stan Winston Studios created for the film. Did he sign over ownership of the character to 20th Century Fox?

As others have mentioned, simply getting the rights back to "Hunter" about a alien space hunter is pretty generic compared to the ICONIC "Predator" Winston designed and created.

Also, I'm not down on the Thomas Bros. at all for trying to get their property back or pursue the copyright laws that may lead them to a better "pay day". Let's face it, Fox and now Disney have a very valuable I.P. in Predator and I think it's safe to say that none of us would have predicted the Predator franchise is as popular as it was back in 87. Video games, toys, t-shirts, cups, posters, etc.

Disney MILKS their I.P.s dry and are making literally millions upon millions of dollars from all the intellectual properties they own. The Thomas Brothers have a legal right to re-capture those rights. There is *NOTHING* wrong with that.

I'm still very hesitant with Disney owning the ALIEN I.P. and have no idea how that it going to go.

Anyways, I still think best case scenario for all involved(fans, Disney, Thomas Brothers, production staff on Skulls) is that a settlement is hammered out that is amicable to all sides.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 19, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: LiquidMonster on Apr 19, 2021, 03:01:34 PM
99% of lawyers will NEVER advise going to court. You almost always want the issue settled between parties before it gets to that point.

Now the issue that is bigger here IMO is whether the Thomas Bros. are entitled to the "Predator" design that Stan Winston Studios created for the film. Did he sign over ownership of the character to 20th Century Fox?

As others have mentioned, simply getting the rights back to "Hunter" about a alien space hunter is pretty generic compared to the ICONIC "Predator" Winston designed and created.

Also, I'm not down on the Thomas Bros. at all for trying to get their property back or pursue the copyright laws that may lead them to a better "pay day". Let's face it, Fox and now Disney have a very valuable I.P. in Predator and I think it's safe to say that none of us would have predicted the Predator franchise is as popular as it was back in 87. Video games, toys, t-shirts, cups, posters, etc.

Disney MILKS their I.P.s dry and are making literally millions upon millions of dollars from all the intellectual properties they own. The Thomas Brothers have a legal right to re-capture those rights. There is *NOTHING* wrong with that.

I'm still very hesitant with Disney owning the ALIEN I.P. and have no idea how that it going to go.

Anyways, I still think best case scenario for all involved(fans, Disney, Thomas Brothers, production staff on Skulls) is that a settlement is hammered out that is amicable to all sides.

Yes, the written part of the character can fall into the generic, ambiguous or even archetypal. But since this is not a merely literary character, Stan Wingston's design is the expression of the Predator, and what really makes it distinguishable.

I don't know anything about laws, but I can understand it with the following scenario: someone could make a movie about an alien that hunts for sport, as long as they don't copy the exact expression of the Predator character.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 10:49:40 AM
Has anyone been able to find Disney's counterclaim? A few sites quote it, but I can't find the text in full.

Apparently in January they said "We have more time" and now they're saying "hey judge these guys totally didn't file it properly please stop them because we're spending so much time and money on the sequel already."

This is the only source I remember  :-\

https://twitter.com/THR/status/1382853342678896641
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Lost_Hunter on Apr 19, 2021, 05:00:06 PM
I'm with ya Valaquen, though I'm always down for new material, I want it to be good. I don't want another The Predator or another Covenant for that matter. Skulls looks like its going for a PG-13, ADI, Woke cash crab and why bother? Hope that's not the case but it's a fool's hope.

Thomas Brothers for the Win
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 19, 2021, 05:16:17 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 07:08:43 AM
EDIT

A friend of mine is a trademark lawyer so I'm running this by her. Very curious to hear what she says!

EDIT

On the face of it, she says they wouldn't be allowed to use the trademarks without permission. So if they sold the rights elsewhere, it would need to be a new adaptation, or with Fox's blessing.

That or their own "Predator", with a different physical expression of the character, another name, and so on. I think something like this happened with the Superman character: a similar super hero but with his own design and trademark.

It's not like I'm saying they would want that, nor that I would want that as well. I'm just guessing.  ;D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Xiggz456 on Apr 19, 2021, 06:23:47 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 07:08:43 AM
Trademarks can be renewed in perpetuity, yes. So Steamboat Willy will be going out of copyright soon (This year I think? Or it's already there), but Mickey Mouse is still a trademarked character.

And there's the rub. The Brothers get the copyright to their script; but if they wanted to shop it around, presumably the trademarks are still held at Fox/Disney. They'd need to sell it as a completely new adaptation, I think. But Disney/Fox couldn't continue to exploit the trademark beyond what's already made, as it would rely on the copyright of the original script.

Which is one of many reasons I'm pretty sure they just want to use this legal tool to renegotiate their license, not kill the franchise. But we won't know until it happens.

EDIT

A friend of mine is a trademark lawyer so I'm running this by her. Very curious to hear what she says!

EDIT

On the face of it, she says they wouldn't be allowed to use the trademarks without permission. So if they sold the rights elsewhere, it would need to be a new adaptation, or with Fox's blessing.

Great post! And this has been my line of thinking as well that the brothers' simply want to get they're deserved piece of the pie. But ya the trademark aspect further confirms that renegotiating the license would be the most financially smart move for the brothers to make.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: acrediblesource on Apr 19, 2021, 07:32:15 PM
I can imagine they want to take control over a franchise since they wrote the first two, saw what the third had in terms of potential and ripped their hair out over AVP and the latest installment. I just think they want to bring the franchise back to a place where the creative control was far more important than making it on par with the MCU which i think is what would happen if Disney took the reigns. The franchise would start to become more PG 13 and adventure based which wasn't the point originally. And you can bet their network of directors are pressuring the bros to take control.

Granted, the game is a little different and does sport what we as fans want. Illfonic forum members are very vocal about what they want to see but ultimately PHG has it's own unique take that I think has something going for it. But it does have a very adventure theme currently rather than a gore fest.

As far as films go, I believe the brothers just don't want Disney marketing the film as something that is accessible as possible to all audiences and taking it back to it's roots.

Quote from: Xiggz456 on Apr 19, 2021, 06:23:47 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 07:08:43 AM


Great post! And this has been my line of thinking as well that the brothers' simply want to get they're deserved piece of the pie. But ya the trademark aspect further confirms that renegotiating the license would be the most financially smart move for the brothers to make.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 08:20:03 PM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Apr 19, 2021, 07:32:15 PM
I can imagine they want to take control over a franchise since they wrote the first two, saw what the third had in terms of potential and ripped their hair out over AVP and the latest installment. I just think they want to bring the franchise back to a place where the creative control was far more important than making it on par with the MCU which i think is what would happen if Disney took the reigns. The franchise would start to become more PG 13 and adventure based which wasn't the point originally. And you can bet their network of directors are pressuring the bros to take control.
There is literally nothing to suggest any of this.

We have zero knowledge of their motives. The best we can glean is from their complaint, which leans heavily to negotiating a better deal for themselves, not some master plan to take control. And even that's still speculative.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 19, 2021, 09:21:03 PM
Will new Predator content be stopped? A Motion Hearing is now scheduled for Thomas vs. Disney
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/04/18/jim-john-thomas-vs-disney-examining-the-battle-for-predator/
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kailem on Apr 19, 2021, 09:33:14 PM
I feel like this injunction is probably going to go ahead and, for however long - hopefully not nearly as long as Friday the 13th - all new Predator content is going to be brought to a halt, until hopefully Disney offers them a settlement. :-\
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 19, 2021, 10:05:04 PM
Quote from: Kailem on Apr 19, 2021, 09:33:14 PM
I feel like this injunction is probably going to go ahead and, for however long - hopefully not nearly as long as Friday the 13th - all new Predator content is going to be brought to a halt, until hopefully Disney offers them a settlement. :-\

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/7ycl4jNeyCn2U/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: PAS Spinelli on Apr 19, 2021, 10:08:25 PM
Franchise going into coma, lets f**king goOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Engineer on Apr 19, 2021, 10:09:36 PM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Apr 19, 2021, 07:32:15 PM
I can imagine they want to take control over a franchise since they wrote the first two, saw what the third had in terms of potential and ripped their hair out over AVP and the latest installment. I just think they want to bring the franchise back to a place where the creative control was far more important than making it on par with the MCU which i think is what would happen if Disney took the reigns. The franchise would start to become more PG 13 and adventure based which wasn't the point originally. And you can bet their network of directors are pressuring the bros to take control.

Granted, the game is a little different and does sport what we as fans want. Illfonic forum members are very vocal about what they want to see but ultimately PHG has it's own unique take that I think has something going for it. But it does have a very adventure theme currently rather than a gore fest.

As far as films go, I believe the brothers just don't want Disney marketing the film as something that is accessible as possible to all audiences and taking it back to it's roots.

Quote from: Xiggz456 on Apr 19, 2021, 06:23:47 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 07:08:43 AM


Great post! And this has been my line of thinking as well that the brothers' simply want to get they're deserved piece of the pie. But ya the trademark aspect further confirms that renegotiating the license would be the most financially smart move for the brothers to make.

Pretty sure Disney said they would not be dropping the R-rating lol
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 19, 2021, 10:12:41 PM
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Apr 19, 2021, 10:08:25 PM
Franchise going into coma, lets f**king goOOOOOOOOOOOOO

:laugh:
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Bug hunt wilson on Apr 20, 2021, 02:08:52 AM
With them having the lawyer that won the Friday the 13 case I  think it's going to be hard for Disney to win.Unless disney screw around copyright laws like they did the last time.I am with the brothers they have the right to gain the right to their franchise and if they do win I think I can make it a couple of years without predator content.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 20, 2021, 02:19:17 AM
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Apr 19, 2021, 10:08:25 PM
Franchise going into coma, lets f**king goOOOOOOOOOOOOO

:'(

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/Darth-Vader-No-Gif-1.gif)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Predalien39 on Apr 20, 2021, 02:26:08 AM
What's crazy about this is May 27th is still kind of far off. 
Would suck for "Skulls" to continue on as normal, only to find out they need to shut down at the end of May.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 04:13:05 AM
Yeah, it certainly would be a crushing blow.  :-\
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 04:24:53 AM
All the more reason for Disney to get a deal done.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 05:00:55 AM
Get a deal done?

If you mean Disney recognizing the Thomas Brothers as the new US copyright holder and pay the Thomas Brothers for the usage of Predator for the next few years or so, the most opportune time for that was between the notice and the termination date where Disney was granted exclusive negotiation rights (like Skydance was with Terminator). But that time has passed. Maybe one big ruling not in Disney's favor could change their tune on that though? We'll see.

In regards to Disney purchasing the copyright from the Thomas Brothers, or what some have suggested in paying the Thomas Brothers off? Who says it will be for sale? I guess it could happen? Maybe? But we probably shouldn't speculate on the Thomas Brothers' motives here. I wouldn't speculate a payoff is what they truly want. I wouldn't speculate Predator is for sale. They may truly want Predator back. All we know is per the lawsuit - that the Thomas Brothers want to claim what is rightfully theirs per US Copyright Law. They want US Copyright ownership of Predator back. What their plans are if successful is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 05:12:56 AM
How can they recognise them as the new copyright holders before they're the new copyright holders?

QuoteWho says it will be for sale?
Who says it won't be?

Honestly, where is the notion that they want to sit on it even coming from? Is there any indication that they've been so unhappy they'd rather nuke the entire IP from orbit than cut a deal? The wording of the complaint is about all we've got, and that talks heavily of negotiating a new license agreement. Everyone's acting like it's the most likely outcome of them getting the copyright, but nobody has any reason to believe that outside of projection or paranoia.

Does anyone think Fox or Disney would renegotiate if they didn't have to? This is the legal recourse to get a renegotiation that levels the playing field. There's really not much other benefit to it.

Taken at face value, the only thing that seems to suggest a risk is Fox/Disney not wanting to pay any extra, not the Brothers taking their toys away and leaving the playground. If they do decide to do that I really wouldn't be surprised if it's because Disney/Fox tried to screw them, not because that was their master plan.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 20, 2021, 05:16:13 AM
I'm sorry to have been somewhat paranoid and dramatic.  :-\
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 05:22:56 AM
I was more taking a dig at people who clearly have an issue with Disney owning the IP and projecting their feelings onto the Brothers :P

F13 has caused a bit of apprehension, but the rights for F13 have always been a nightmare. Long before the Miller case the franchise was split between Paramount and New Line. Then they kind of got their act together and this was just the latest in a long line of complaints. And even THEN, it's because they're not even sure Miller had a right to do what he did. It's been a mess since the 90s.

But if Miller had just got the rights and that was the end of it, you think he'd just sit on it? Hell no, he wants a better cut. You can't get a better cut when the income is $0.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 20, 2021, 05:57:15 AM
And now the Thomas brothers are being represented by the same intellectual property attorney who represented Miller in the legal battle for the F13 rights. I hope Disney ~ FOX don't try to screw the brothers, so the worst projection (at least for some) won't becomes a reality.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 06:09:18 AM
Dude got the win even when the writer himself admitted it was work he was asked to do; he's probably thinking himself lucky this time it's clear-cut :D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SM on Apr 20, 2021, 06:56:15 AM
QuoteHonestly, where is the notion that they want to sit on it even coming from?

It's nonsense.  If anything they'll exploit it in order to pay their legal costs.

(Unless they're suing Disney for damages?)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 07:46:38 AM
I believe the complaint does specifically ask Disney to cover costs of the legal dispute.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SM on Apr 20, 2021, 08:14:41 AM
Oh well, fair enough.

Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Local Trouble on Apr 20, 2021, 10:45:01 AM
Has anyone considered the possibility that the Thomas brothers aren't interested in the money?  Maybe they're just using this as leverage to wrest a settlement from Disney that includes a legally binding pledge to never use ADI's crabator designs ever again.

I suspect VM is their silent partner in this whole affair.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Apr 20, 2021, 11:19:51 AM
Well isn't this another ball game entirely. They wouldn't own the actual Stan design? That was work-for-hire from Fox.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Samhain13 on Apr 20, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 20, 2021, 10:45:01 AM
Has anyone considered the possibility that the Thomas brothers aren't interested in the money?  Maybe they're just using this as leverage to wrest a settlement from Disney that includes a legally binding pledge to never use ADI's crabator designs ever again.

I suspect VM is their silent partner in this whole affair.

They are doing it cus they hated Skulls premise. Stop before it kills whatever The Predator didn't kill yet in the series.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 12:02:08 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 05:12:56 AM
How can they recognise them as the new copyright holders before they're the new copyright holders?

As in conceding the copyright will revert back to the Thomas Brothers per US Copyright Law, like David Ellison did for Cameron.

Quote
QuoteWho says it will be for sale?
Who says it won't be?

Neither by me, without a "perhaps" caveat. It's all speculation. All we know is they are claiming the copyright back. That is the one definitive we have.

QuoteHonestly, where is the notion that they want to sit on it even coming from?

More speculation.

QuoteThe wording of the complaint is about all we've got, and that talks heavily of negotiating a new license agreement.

You're taking a small portion out of context and using it to support your speculation. It's a small portion explaining why this protection is in place for original copyright holders. It's just explaining why it was enacted by Congress.

"The termination right was specifically enacted by Congress in recognition of the unequal bargaining position of authors and to enable them to finally secure the financial benefits of their work, sold inevitably before its value could be fairly tested in the marketplace."

QuoteDoes anyone think Fox or Disney would renegotiate if they didn't have to? This is the legal recourse to get a renegotiation that levels the playing field. There's really not much other benefit to it.

But does the Thomas Brothers want to negotiate with Disney, versus form their own license company now, let someone in the family run it, and license it to Blumhouse or somewhere else, or just sell it somewhere else. I don't know. All speculation.

Cameron wanted the copyright back. Miller wanted the copyright back. I'm not saying the Thomas Brothers does want the copyright back. But I am also not saying the Thomas Brothers doesn't. That would be speculating.




Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 20, 2021, 10:45:01 AM
Has anyone considered the possibility that the Thomas brothers aren't interested in the money?  Maybe they're just using this as leverage to wrest a settlement from Disney that includes a legally binding pledge to never use ADI's crabator designs ever again.

I suspect VM is their silent partner in this whole affair.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/2cd1859d8e5b6cfae05e9e33c1be2b80/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 12:21:11 PM
QuoteYou're taking a small portion out of context and using it to support your speculation. It's a small portion explaining why this protection is in place for original copyright holders. It's just explaining why it was enacted by Congress.
There are actually several paragraphs throughout the complaint explaining that this law, and this action, is about equitable negotiation for renewing the license. It specifically points out it doesn't prevent Fox from using existing derivative material and makes no mention of seeking actions that would give them control over everything

Quote
But does the Thomas Brothers want to negotiate with Disney, versus form their own license company now, let someone in the family run it, and license it to Blumhouse or somewhere else, or just sell it somewhere else. I don't know. All speculation.
Sell a script that's already made so a new house can make a movie that everyone's going to think is a ripoff of Predator since they couldn't use any of the existing trademarks?

They could, but that doesn't seem realistic.

Never Say Never Again is the closest I can think to that.

QuoteCameron wanted the copyright back. Miller wanted the copyright back. I'm not saying the Thomas Brothers does want the copyright back. But I am also not saying the Thomas Brothers doesn't. That would be speculating.
Cameron openly regretted selling the rights for $1 in 1984 - but he's not the one who filed the retraction intent, Gale Ann Hurd did. By all accounts Cameron is happy for the rights to be where they are now.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Bug hunt wilson on Apr 20, 2021, 01:01:23 PM
To tell you the truth with all this legal stuff.The only reason I think they were moving so fast with skulls is that they knew they were about to get sue and wanted to use a loophole so they can still hold on to the ip.Similar to what universal did with doom anhalition and those straight to dvd hellrasier moives.I am not no copyright lawyer so let's say if skulls was very far enough in development will the brothers be able to cancel it and will Disney be able to hold the ip for a couple of years if they failed to cancelled the film?Cause I rember something similar is what kept Clive baker sueing back for the rights  for a while
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 01:05:09 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 12:21:11 PM
QuoteYou're taking a small portion out of context and using it to support your speculation. It's a small portion explaining why this protection is in place for original copyright holders. It's just explaining why it was enacted by Congress.
There are actually several paragraphs throughout the complaint explaining that this law, and this action, is about equitable negotiation for renewing the license.

Show me these other paragraphs.

Have you even read the complaint Nature of the Action? This is what they are seeking:

NATURE OF THE ACTION

5. The Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §203(a), provides authors with the inalienable right to recapture the copyright to their creative work, after a lengthy waiting period, by statutorily terminating without cause prior transfer(s) of copyright, provided advance notice of termination is given and accepted for recordation by the U.S. Copyright Office.

6. The termination right was specifically enacted by Congress in recognition of the unequal bargaining position of authors and to enable them to finally secure the financial benefits of their work, sold inevitably before its value could be fairly tested in the marketplace. See H.R. Rep. No. 94-1476, at 124 is about equitable negotiation for renewing the license.1976) (emphasizing that the termination right was enacted to give authors a chance to obtain a more equitable portion of their creation's value when it is no longer conjectural.)

7. In or about 1984, brothers James E. Thomas and John C. Thomas conceived and authored the original "spec" screenplay "Hunters" (hereinafter, the "Screenplay"). Their Screenplay was acquired in 1986 by Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation and was the basis for the iconic hit film Predator (1987), starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, launching the Predator film franchise.

8. In 2016, the Thomas brothers properly availed themselves of their right under Section 203(a) of the Copyright Act to recover the copyright to their literary material by serving and recording with the U.S. Copyright Office within the prescribed statutory window, a notice of termination with an effective termination date of April 17, 2021. This is a civil action seeking declaratory relief that the Thomases' termination is valid and effective under the Copyright Act
.

Doc is here. Only 12 pages: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20616541-predator

You don't put your plan, your ideas on what you want to do after you reclaim the US copyright of Predator, into your legal complaint. That would not be germane to the complaint, nor any of the court's business!

No, you're speculating SiL. It may be a very good speculation, but admit it's honest speculation as well. :)

QuoteIt specifically points out it doesn't prevent Fox from using existing derivative material and makes no mention of seeking actions that would give them control over everything

Who said control of everything? Who said it prevents Fox from using existing derivative material? Ho boy! You need to read the legal complaint again, and our articles brother.  :)

Quote
Quote
But does the Thomas Brothers want to negotiate with Disney, versus form their own license company now, let someone in the family run it, and license it to Blumhouse or somewhere else, or just sell it somewhere else. I don't know. All speculation.
Sell a script that's already made so a new house can make a movie that everyone's going to think is a ripoff of Predator since they couldn't use any of the existing trademarks?

They could, but that doesn't seem realistic.

Never Say Never Again is the closest I can think to that.

I always personally wanted a Predator movie to be not called Predator, i.e. "Skulls" or a personal wish of mine... "The Hunter". Who knows. :)

Quote
QuoteCameron wanted the copyright back. Miller wanted the copyright back. I'm not saying the Thomas Brothers does want the copyright back. But I am also not saying the Thomas Brothers doesn't. That would be speculating.
Cameron openly regretted selling the rights for $1 in 1984 - but he's not the one who filed the retraction intent, Gale Ann Hurd did. By all accounts Cameron is happy for the rights to be where they are now.

I don't even know what this response means to be honest in the context of our conversation, in regards to an suggestions what the Thomas Brothers is going to do or not going to do by us is just pure speculation.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Engineer on Apr 20, 2021, 01:13:17 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 20, 2021, 11:19:51 AM
Well isn't this another ball game entirely. They wouldn't own the actual Stan design? That was work-for-hire from Fox.

The complaint calls out "derivative" works. I usually see that as other movies, books, comics, games, etc. but the creature design could be considered "derivative" too, I think...


Quote from: Samhain13 on Apr 20, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 20, 2021, 10:45:01 AM
Has anyone considered the possibility that the Thomas brothers aren't interested in the money?  Maybe they're just using this as leverage to wrest a settlement from Disney that includes a legally binding pledge to never use ADI's crabator designs ever again.

I suspect VM is their silent partner in this whole affair.

They are doing it cus they hated Skulls premise. Stop before it kills whatever The Predator didn't kill yet in the series.

I doubt that since they issued their notice of intent 4.5 years ago (in 2016). That was before Disney was in the picture and before Shane black's movie came out. This new movie couldn't have been on the Thomas brothers radar since they hadn't started work on it yet (director says he's been working on the script for 4 years so that's 6 months after the Thomas brothers started the process).
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 20, 2021, 01:26:03 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 20, 2021, 06:56:15 AM(Unless they're suing FOX Disney for crabators damages?)

Since it predates the acquisition of FOX by Disney.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 01:34:41 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 20, 2021, 01:13:17 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 20, 2021, 11:19:51 AM
Well isn't this another ball game entirely. They wouldn't own the actual Stan design? That was work-for-hire from Fox.

The complaint calls out "derivative" works. I usually see that as other movies, books, comics, games, etc. but the creature design could be considered "derivative" too, I think...

The sequels, even the original, are seemingly  grouped in with derivative works:

"Under the termination provisions, prior "derivative works" "can continue to be" distributed as before.  17 U.S.C. § 203(b)(1).  Plaintiffs' recovery of the U.S. copyright to their Screenplay therefore does not prevent Defendants or their licensees from continuing to exploit prior derivative works, including the original Predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films. "

It will be interesting though with that Predator creature design.

With Friday the 13th, the Jason character didn't appear in that famous villian form with that trademark hockey mask etc. until later movies, so there was a sufficient argument to be made that the adult Jason character could be independent of that first script. That seemed to matter.

With Predator, I don't think such an argument could be as clearly made. So my limited understanding assumption believes the Thomas Brothers will get the Stan Winston design as well.

Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Engineer on Apr 20, 2021, 01:38:37 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 01:34:41 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 20, 2021, 01:13:17 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 20, 2021, 11:19:51 AM
Well isn't this another ball game entirely. They wouldn't own the actual Stan design? That was work-for-hire from Fox.

The complaint calls out "derivative" works. I usually see that as other movies, books, comics, games, etc. but the creature design could be considered "derivative" too, I think...

The sequels, even the original, are seemingly  grouped in with derivative works:

"Under the termination provisions, prior "derivative works" "can continue to be" distributed as before.  17 U.S.C. § 203(b)(1).  Plaintiffs' recovery of the U.S. copyright to their Screenplay therefore does not prevent Defendants or their licensees from continuing to exploit prior derivative works, including the original Predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films. "

It will be interesting though with that Predator creature design.

With Friday the 13th, the Jason character didn't appear in that famous villian form with that trademark hockey mask etc. until later movies, so there was a sufficient argument to be made that the adult Jason character could be independent of that first script. That seemed to matter.

With Predator, I don't think such an argument could be as clearly made. So my limited understanding assumption believes the Thomas Brothers will get the Stan Winston design as well.

Yea. That's what I was thinking too. I'll be curious to see how all this shakes out in the end; what the law decides, etc. It just sucks for all of us fans in the meantime...
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 01:48:31 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 20, 2021, 01:38:37 PM
Yea. That's what I was thinking too. I'll be curious to see how all this shakes out in the end; what the law decides, etc. It just sucks for all of us fans in the meantime...

Indeed. But I think we're okay, seemingly as long as the court rules against issuing a preliminary injunction until this case is resolved, allowing Skulls, Predator comics and more to continue. Then, at least I think, fandom, their loyal consumers, will be able to breathe a sigh of relief. Then we still get all this great expected content AND watch how it all shakes out.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 01:53:13 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 01:48:31 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 20, 2021, 01:38:37 PM
Yea. That's what I was thinking too. I'll be curious to see how all this shakes out in the end; what the law decides, etc. It just sucks for all of us fans in the meantime...

Indeed. But I think we're okay, seemingly as long as the court rules against issuing a preliminary injunction until this case is resolved, allowing Skulls, Predator comics and more to continue. Then, at least I think, fandom, their loyal consumers, will be able to breathe a sigh of relief. Then we still get all this great expected content AND watch how it all shakes out.

This is my hope and the best possible outcome for the time being. Yes, we want the best for this franchise, but knowing we have content expected this year and the next, why wouldn't we want that instead of waiting YEARS for a maybe.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: The Necronoir on Apr 20, 2021, 02:17:35 PM
Just finished watching the video, after reading the articles previously, and a new angle occurred to me. There was a lot of talk about all parties losing out if the ruling and/or arbitration end up being drawn out, as in the Friday the 13th case. I think it's worth pointing out that there is one party that benefits in that scenario, regardless of the outcome, and that's the lawyer representing the Thomas Brothers.

A few points to consider:
Basically, there's only one party that is absolutely guaranteed to walk out of this with a material benefit they wouldn't otherwise have made, and one that increases in proportion to the duration of the proceedings. Disney's legal department is in-house, so I don't think we should be looking there.

Given the outcome (or lack thereof) for F13th, and the dissatisfaction the plaintiff has expressed in that case, I think we have to wonder who approached whom with the idea of going to war with Disney rather than simply hashing out a deal. There are plenty of lawyers who make a career out of this kind of predator behaviour (if you'll excuse the pun).
______________________________

Btw, there's a goof in your original article, Voodoo:

QuoteAnd within a couple weeks, a large anniversary update is expected for the upcoming Predator: Hunting Grounds video game.

It's the update that is "upcoming", not the videogame.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Lost_Hunter on Apr 20, 2021, 02:49:56 PM
Good/ Somber Motion tracker guys. Cooled the jets a bit. Have we heard anything front Illfonic or Trachtenberg? Any posts? Good post Necronoir
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 03:08:58 PM
Quote from: The Necronoir on Apr 20, 2021, 02:17:35 PM
Btw, there's a goof in your original article, Voodoo:

QuoteAnd within a couple weeks, a large anniversary update is expected for the upcoming Predator: Hunting Grounds video game.

It's the update that is "upcoming", not the videogame.

Thanks Necronoir. Fixed!

And nice analysis btw!

Quote from: Lost_Hunter on Apr 20, 2021, 02:49:56 PM
Good/ Somber Motion tracker guys. Cooled the jets a bit. Have we heard anything front Illfonic or Trachtenberg? Any posts? Good post Necronoir


Thanks brother!

Heard anything from them in regards to this legal situation? I don't believe so. I'd be personally surprised if they do, at this current point of time at least.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: The Necronoir on Apr 20, 2021, 03:16:49 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 03:08:58 PM
Quote from: The Necronoir on Apr 20, 2021, 02:17:35 PM
Btw, there's a goof in your original article, Voodoo:

QuoteAnd within a couple weeks, a large anniversary update is expected for the upcoming Predator: Hunting Grounds video game.

It's the update that is "upcoming", not the videogame.

Thanks Necronoir. Fixed!

And nice analysis btw!

No worries. On a related note, I just read the announcement from Illfonic that their next stream will include news of some sort, no doubt relating to the update. Cheekily, they're having it on 4/26, which just so happens to be Alien Day.

I've been banking on Cold Iron doing something significant on that day too, so it makes me wonder if someone is coordinating between them to make sure they aren't stepping on each others' toes.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Lost_Hunter on Apr 20, 2021, 03:17:50 PM
The waiting game, we need a Mole in Alberta
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 03:27:16 PM
Quote from: Lost_Hunter on Apr 20, 2021, 02:49:56 PM
Good/ Somber Motion tracker guys. Cooled the jets a bit. Have we heard anything front Illfonic or Trachtenberg? Any posts? Good post Necronoir

I'd have to think Disney is advising Dan to not say a word about the situation. He hasn't posted a thing since his tweet about scouting. I believe it was the very next day the news about the lawsuit came out.

I'm curious though, are they still working through pre-production until May 27th or until an injunction, or have they halted already? That would be a bit telling right there. If they've currently stopped working, the assumption would be Disney feels they might be stopped anyway, so why waste money.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: The Necronoir on Apr 20, 2021, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 03:27:16 PM
Quote from: Lost_Hunter on Apr 20, 2021, 02:49:56 PM
Good/ Somber Motion tracker guys. Cooled the jets a bit. Have we heard anything front Illfonic or Trachtenberg? Any posts? Good post Necronoir

I'd have to think Disney is advising Dan to not say a word about the situation. He hasn't posted a thing since his tweet about scouting. I believe it was the very next day the news about the lawsuit came out.

I'm curious though, are they still working through pre-production until May 27th or until an injunction, or have they halted already? That would be a bit telling right there. If they've currently stopped working, the assumption would be Disney feels they might be stopped anyway, so why waste money.

From the little I know about how film productions work, they may not save much money by temporarily halting the project though. Lots of staff, locations, contractors, etc would potentially still require payment during the downtime, on top of then paying even more when it presumably starts up again. Might be less lost simply by forging ahead, even if it does end up cancelled.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 03:39:16 PM
Quote from: The Necronoir on Apr 20, 2021, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 03:27:16 PM
Quote from: Lost_Hunter on Apr 20, 2021, 02:49:56 PM
Good/ Somber Motion tracker guys. Cooled the jets a bit. Have we heard anything front Illfonic or Trachtenberg? Any posts? Good post Necronoir

I'd have to think Disney is advising Dan to not say a word about the situation. He hasn't posted a thing since his tweet about scouting. I believe it was the very next day the news about the lawsuit came out.

I'm curious though, are they still working through pre-production until May 27th or until an injunction, or have they halted already? That would be a bit telling right there. If they've currently stopped working, the assumption would be Disney feels they might be stopped anyway, so why waste money.

From the little I know about how film productions work, they may not save much money by temporarily halting the project though. Lots of staff, locations, contractors, etc would potentially still require payment during the downtime, on top of then paying even more when it presumably starts up again. Might be less lost simply by forging ahead, even if it does end up cancelled.

Speaking of downtime...

Before Kyle told us he was training for a big film, that we assume is Skulls.

So what kind of "down time" is his tweet 11 hours ago reflecting perhaps? 🤔

https://twitter.com/geno604/status/1384363406929457152?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 04:14:15 PM
Another thing I'm curious about: if an injunction is passed and the date of termination is considered not valid pushing the next date to 2022, does that injunction remain is or is voided?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 04:14:15 PM
Another thing I'm curious about: if an injunction is passed and the date of termination is considered not valid pushing the next date to 2022, does that injunction remain is or is voided?

That's what I hope is a good argument not to have a preliminary injunction.

Say the court finds the April 17th date is not really the valid date, and say June 14, 2022 is really the true termination date, what good is that extra time if the ruling is made *random guess* by December 2021?

Hey all, Disney was right! They do have the copyright until June 2022!  But sorry Disney, you only have 6 months to make a movie now!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 04:51:40 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 04:14:15 PM
Another thing I'm curious about: if an injunction is passed and the date of termination is considered not valid pushing the next date to 2022, does that injunction remain is or is voided?

That's what I hope is a good argument not to have a preliminary injunction.

Say the court finds the April 17th date is not really the valid date, and say June 14, 2022 is really the true termination date, what good is that extra time if the ruling is made *random guess* by December 2021?

Hey all, Disney was right! They do have the copyright until June 2022!  But sorry Disney, you only have 6 months to make a movie now!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a preliminary injunction can be enacted prior to the hearing date, right? So from now until 27th the court could order that injunction? But if nothing is passed along prior to the hearing, that has to feel like SOME glimmer of hope. I'm only speculating because of the brothers really didn't want this new film to move forward, they would have already passed the injunction. Unless it already has been and we aren't privy to it, which is why you're getting a cryptic tweet from Kyle and no word from Dan. All speculative of course. This stuff drives me insane! Tough time to be a fan right now. Ugh.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 05:11:08 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 04:51:40 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a preliminary injunction can be enacted prior to the hearing date, right? So from now until 27th the court could order that injunction? But if nothing is passed along prior to the hearing, that has to feel like SOME glimmer of hope. I'm only speculating because of the brothers really didn't want this new film to move forward, they would have already passed the injunction. Unless it already has been and we aren't privy to it, which is why you're getting a cryptic tweet from Kyle and no word from Dan. All speculative of course. This stuff drives me insane! Tough time to be a fan right now. Ugh.

It says May 27th is just a Motion Hearing for the Preliminary Injunction, allowing legal council on both sides to prepare to make their case for or against.

Motion Hearing [12] MOTION for Preliminary Injunction set for 5/27/2021 at 9:30 AM in San Francisco – Videoconference Only before Magistrate Judge Laurel Beeler. This proceeding will be held via a Zoom webinar.

So I believe it is safe to assume it won't occur before this date. I don't believe the Judge could/would make such an order without hearing from both sides.

The actual trial gets scheduled sometime afterwards.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 05:14:49 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 05:11:08 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 04:51:40 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a preliminary injunction can be enacted prior to the hearing date, right? So from now until 27th the court could order that injunction? But if nothing is passed along prior to the hearing, that has to feel like SOME glimmer of hope. I'm only speculating because of the brothers really didn't want this new film to move forward, they would have already passed the injunction. Unless it already has been and we aren't privy to it, which is why you're getting a cryptic tweet from Kyle and no word from Dan. All speculative of course. This stuff drives me insane! Tough time to be a fan right now. Ugh.

It says May 27th is just a Motion Hearing for the Preliminary Injunction, allowing legal council on both sides to prepare to make their case for or against.

Motion Hearing [12] MOTION for Preliminary Injunction set for 5/27/2021 at 9:30 AM in San Francisco – Videoconference Only before Magistrate Judge Laurel Beeler. This proceeding will be held via a Zoom webinar.

So I believe it is safe to assume it won't occur before this date. I don't believe the Judge could/would make such an order without hearing from both sides.

The actual trial gets scheduled sometime afterwards.

Thank you. Completely overlooked that it was a date set for motion of injunction. Not sure what I thought it was initially for.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Apr 20, 2021, 06:04:00 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 20, 2021, 10:45:01 AM
Has anyone considered the possibility that the Thomas brothers aren't interested in the money?  Maybe they're just using this as leverage to wrest a settlement from Disney that includes a legally binding pledge to never use ADI's crabator designs ever again.

I suspect VM is their silent partner in this whole affair.

Sounds reasonable to me
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Enjoy on Apr 20, 2021, 06:55:06 PM
That predator looks like he commited some serious crime and is freaked out   
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 20, 2021, 07:30:27 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 20, 2021, 06:04:00 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 20, 2021, 10:45:01 AM
Has anyone considered the possibility that the Thomas brothers aren't interested in the money?  Maybe they're just using this as leverage to wrest a settlement from Disney that includes a legally binding pledge to never use ADI's crabator designs ever again.

I suspect VM is their silent partner in this whole affair.

Sounds reasonable to me

Ugh! You guys are so crustaceaphobics ::)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Lost_Hunter on Apr 20, 2021, 08:25:54 PM
I'd buy that for a dollar
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 08:59:27 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 01:05:09 PM

Show me these other paragraphs.
Paragraphs 24-26, Statutory Background.

QuoteNo, you're speculating SiL. It may be a very good speculation, but admit it's honest speculation as well. :)
I've never said I'm not speculating ???

It's just not baseless speculation like people saying they're going to take their toys and leave.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 20, 2021, 10:08:56 PM
Yeah, statutory background is exactly what it is, statutory background of the 1976 Copyright Act and how it applies here, and gives us no indication of what the Thomas Brothers motives are and what will they do when or if they reclaim the US Copyright back.

It just mentions 24. the chance for Disney to get first dibs of the copyright licensng from the Thomas Brothers before termination date *which passed according to them*, 25. how older works will not be under Thomas control, and 26. this reclaiming doesn't apply overseas but only to the US.


24. Congress anticipated that an author's exercise of his/her termination right would usually result in a new license by the author to the terminated grantee (such as TCFFC). To that end, Congress provided "the original grantee" with the exclusive opportunity to re-license an author's recaptured copyright "after the notice or termination has been served," but before "the effective date of the termination."  Id. § 203(b)(4).  The termination provisions thus reflect a deliberate balance of competing interests.

25. Under the termination provisions, prior "derivative works" "can continue to be" distributed as before.  17 U.S.C. § 203(b)(1).  Plaintiffs' recovery of the U.S. copyright to their Screenplay therefore does not prevent Defendants or their licensees from continuing to exploit prior derivative works, including the original Predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films.

26. In addition, because the Copyright Act has no extra-territorial application, the foreign rights to Plaintiffs' Screenplay remains with TCFFC. As a result, after the effective date of Plaintiffs' termination, new derivative Predator works would simply require a license from Plaintiffs, thereby enabling the authors to fairly participate with others at a level reflective of their work's market value. Accordingly, Plaintiffs' exercise of their copyright termination right does not prevent the exploitation of the Predator franchise; it simply allows its original creators to, at long last, participate in the financial rewards of their creation, just as Congress intended.  H.R. Rep. No. 94-1476, at 124 (1976).
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 10:23:03 PM
Yes, exactly what I said - multiple paragraphs throughout the piece outlining the limit of control the law gives and that the primary benefit is renegotiating a license.

I'm not sure what the issue is here?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 10:35:37 PM
Part of the concerns I've seen on here from people (and I'll gladly lump myself in that group of individuals), is the ceasing of current works. I *think* we mostly understand what the potential of this suit means, but we as a fan base are just anxious about the outcome. At one point we were CERTAIN we were getting new content. A film set to shoot. Comic book lines. Updates on the video game. Because of that once certainty, that's what makes this a little hard to swallow. If none of us knew anything was in the works, we might mostly be in praise of this because now we could feel like the franchise would be revived somewhere. But it wasn't dead yet. Things were coming, even if we did feel a bit apprehensive because of it being under Disney. As a fan, I was feeling EXCITED.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 10:41:39 PM
Yeah, I totally get that. I feel awful for Trachtenberg and his team getting saddled with this right before it starts moving properly.

Absolutely this will throw a spanner in the works and we all hope it's resolved quickly. It's frustrating timing.

I just think it's baseless for some people to be saying that the master plan for the Brothers is to take the rights and torpedo the franchise maliciously. That's all I've been saying.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 10:49:15 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 10:41:39 PM
Yeah, I totally get that. I feel awful for Trachtenberg and his team getting saddled with this right before it starts moving properly.

Absolutely this will throw a spanner in the works and we all hope it's resolved quickly. It's frustrating timing.

I just think it's baseless for some people to be saying that the master plan for the Brothers is to take the rights and torpedo the franchise maliciously. That's all I've been saying.

And you're right. I don't think the brothers have any malicious intent here. Especially to just trash a franchise they created when there's an opportunity to be had to make more money off of it. It absolutely sucks for Trachtenberg. He's a great guy according to friends that have worked with him, and he genuinely sounded passionate about this.

But even if this all goes the brothers' way, we just have to live with the fact that we won't see anything for a few years. And if we do, let's hope it's at home that cherishes it and wants the best out of it.


My feeling, however, is that Skulls is dead. *super sad face emoji*
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 20, 2021, 11:11:33 PM
I hold out hope it can get sorted faster than that - but it would really on Disney sucking it up, acknowledging their rights, and moving forward  :(
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: R390-GT1 on Apr 21, 2021, 12:06:59 AM
I hope the judge rules in favor of the Thomas brothers. They made the franchise what it is today. The messed up part is that TCF sold the franchise(and Alien) to Disney in the first place. Maybe there's a silver lining to this, meaning that even though we may have to wait a few years, the Thomas brothers would be able to craft an awesome Predator film in the vein of the first two films in the franchise.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 21, 2021, 02:00:15 AM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 10:35:37 PM
Part of the concerns I've seen on here from people (and I'll gladly lump myself in that group of individuals), is the ceasing of current works. I *think* we mostly understand what the potential of this suit means, but we as a fan base are just anxious about the outcome. At one point we were CERTAIN we were getting new content. A film set to shoot. Comic book lines. Updates on the video game. Because of that once certainty, that's what makes this a little hard to swallow. If none of us knew anything was in the works, we might mostly be in praise of this because now we could feel like the franchise would be revived somewhere. But it wasn't dead yet. Things were coming, even if we did feel a bit apprehensive because of it being under Disney. As a fan, I was feeling EXCITED.

The irony is that it is partly Disney's fault, for not dealing with this before starting to exploit the franchise.

Quote from: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 10:49:15 PM
My feeling, however, is that Skulls is dead. *super sad face emoji*

It was too good to be true, the movie (I don't collect comics) and the Alien series. That last one seems to be safe since it is another IP. But I was really excited about Skulls. Maybe I'm drawing premature conclusions, but it feel it fresh to me: A Predator movie with a less obvious title ala Prometheus, sorry :laugh: , a pre-21st and 20th century setting, no firearms, Native Americans, unknown actors make it feel more real, and an actress to play the lead..sigh :'(
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 21, 2021, 03:27:09 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 21, 2021, 02:00:15 AM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 10:35:37 PM
Part of the concerns I've seen on here from people (and I'll gladly lump myself in that group of individuals), is the ceasing of current works. I *think* we mostly understand what the potential of this suit means, but we as a fan base are just anxious about the outcome. At one point we were CERTAIN we were getting new content. A film set to shoot. Comic book lines. Updates on the video game. Because of that once certainty, that's what makes this a little hard to swallow. If none of us knew anything was in the works, we might mostly be in praise of this because now we could feel like the franchise would be revived somewhere. But it wasn't dead yet. Things were coming, even if we did feel a bit apprehensive because of it being under Disney. As a fan, I was feeling EXCITED.

The irony is that it is partly Disney's fault, for not dealing with this before starting to exploit the franchise.

Quote from: Proteus on Apr 20, 2021, 10:49:15 PM
My feeling, however, is that Skulls is dead. *super sad face emoji*

It was too good to be true, the movie (I don't collect comics) and the Alien series. That last one seems to be safe since it is another IP. But I was really excited about Skulls. Maybe I'm drawing premature conclusions, but it feel it fresh to me: A Predator movie with a less obvious title ala Prometheus, sorry :laugh: , a pre-21st and 20th century setting, no firearms, Native Americans, unknown actors make it feel more real, and an actress to play the lead..sigh :'(

Jonesy, I completely agree. This is why I was all for this film. Just felt... fresh. Really give some unknowns an opportunity. Could have been special to see. I'm still holding out for a little hope. One screenwriter friend gave me a tiny sliver by saying, and I quote, "The Evil Disney Lawyers are just wretched enough that they'll find a way to win this." Normally, I don't root for the real life bad guys, but in this instance I am because I WANT SKULLS D*MMIT!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Drukathi on Apr 21, 2021, 06:06:30 AM
Yeah-yeah. On a bad guys side.

Maybe then it is worth stopping whining in Marvel Comic Alien topic about tracing, photo-editing and other nonsense? Accept what Marvel does and buy a wonderful comic without whining.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 21, 2021, 06:13:07 AM
Who here is whining about the tracing there, but hoping for Disney to win here ... ?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 21, 2021, 06:14:20 AM
Quote from: Drukathi on Apr 21, 2021, 06:06:30 AM
Yeah-yeah. On a bad guys side.

Maybe then it is worth stopping whining in Marvel Comic Alien topic about tracing, photo-editing and other nonsense? Accept what Marvel does and buy a wonderful comic without whining.

What the... actual f**k are you talking about?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 21, 2021, 09:44:58 AM
Well that went off the rails. Lol


Well, if the lawsuit is settled in which SKULLS is allowed to proceed, then I'll get my first tattoo ever. I'd say let's hold a competition on what I should get, but I don't trust you all. 🤣
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 21, 2021, 02:00:56 PM
Also I hope dearly that's a sarcastic use of "wonderful"
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Engineer on Apr 21, 2021, 02:02:48 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 21, 2021, 09:44:58 AM
Well that went off the rails. Lol


Well, if the lawsuit is settled in which SKULLS is allowed to proceed, then I'll get my first tattoo ever. I'd say let's hold a competition on what I should get, but I don't trust you all. 🤣
"No Ragrets"
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 21, 2021, 02:41:12 PM
 :laugh:

(https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/t_share/MTczODA2ODg0MzMwNjEyMjgy/bad-tattoos-tattoos-gone-wrong.jpg)

Quote from: Proteus on Apr 21, 2021, 09:44:58 AM
Well, if the lawsuit is settled in which SKULLS is allowed to proceed, then I'll get my first tattoo ever. I'd say let's hold a competition on what I should get, but I don't trust you all. 🤣

Make sure you research the tattoo artist! Some are absolutely brilliant talents!

(https://cdn-ph-web.worldtattoogallery.com/artist--ben-kaye--predator-tattoo_18194110715.jpg)

(https://cdn-ph-web.worldtattoogallery.com/2020-001/artist--tattoo-zhuzha--predator-tattoo_20104173336.jpg)

(https://cdn-ph-web.inkedone.com/benkamin-laukis---predator---tattoo------11032015213654.jpg)

(https://nextluxury.com/wp-content/uploads/nice-predator-guys-tattoo-designs-on-arms.jpg)

(https://cdn-ph-web.worldtattoogallery.com/artist--lloyd-nakao--predator-tattoo_19334135644.jpg)

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 21, 2021, 02:00:15 AM
It was too good to be true, the movie (I don't collect comics) and the Alien series. That last one seems to be safe since it is another IP. But I was really excited about Skulls. Maybe I'm drawing premature conclusions, but it feel it fresh to me: A Predator movie with a less obvious title ala Prometheus, sorry :laugh: , a pre-21st and 20th century setting, no firearms, Native Americans, unknown actors make it feel more real, and an actress to play the lead..sigh :'(

Yeah, Dan Trachtenberg, it simply being titled "Skulls" (at least at the moment), takes place in the past, Comanche warriors, female protagonist this time... it was definitely checking all the right excitement boxes for me too so far. Let's hope it's not stopped.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 21, 2021, 03:04:09 PM
Oh my gosh.. some of these are really cool!  8)

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 21, 2021, 02:41:12 PM
(https://cdn-ph-web.inkedone.com/benkamin-laukis---predator---tattoo------11032015213654.jpg)

This one looks funny though.  :laugh:

Quote from: Proteus on Apr 21, 2021, 09:44:58 AM
Well, if the lawsuit is settled in which SKULLS is allowed to proceed, then I'll get my first tattoo ever. I'd say let's hold a competition on what I should get, but I don't trust you all. 🤣

I'm keen on it.

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 21, 2021, 02:41:12 PM
Yeah, Dan Trachtenberg, it simply being titled "Skulls" (at least at the moment), takes place in the past, Comanche warriors, female protagonist this time... it was definitely checking all the right excitement boxes for me too so far. Let's hope it's not stopped.
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 21, 2021, 03:27:09 AM
Jonesy, I completely agree. This is why I was all for this film. Just felt... fresh. Really give some unknowns an opportunity. Could have been special to see. I'm still holding out for a little hope. One screenwriter friend gave me a tiny sliver by saying, and I quote, "The Evil Disney Lawyers are just wretched enough that they'll find a way to win this." Normally, I don't root for the real life bad guys, but in this instance I am because I WANT SKULLS D*MMIT!

Oh man, as controversial as it sounds, a part of me wants this movie to happen, even if that means Disney winning  :-X A little selfish, I know. But I don't want this movie to die.  :-\
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 21, 2021, 04:18:03 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 21, 2021, 02:41:12 PM
:laugh:

(https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/t_share/MTczODA2ODg0MzMwNjEyMjgy/bad-tattoos-tattoos-gone-wrong.jpg)

Quote from: Proteus on Apr 21, 2021, 09:44:58 AM
Well, if the lawsuit is settled in which SKULLS is allowed to proceed, then I'll get my first tattoo ever. I'd say let's hold a competition on what I should get, but I don't trust you all. 🤣

Make sure you research the tattoo artist! Some are absolutely brilliant talents!

(https://cdn-ph-web.worldtattoogallery.com/artist--ben-kaye--predator-tattoo_18194110715.jpg)

(https://cdn-ph-web.worldtattoogallery.com/2020-001/artist--tattoo-zhuzha--predator-tattoo_20104173336.jpg)

(https://cdn-ph-web.inkedone.com/benkamin-laukis---predator---tattoo------11032015213654.jpg)

(https://nextluxury.com/wp-content/uploads/nice-predator-guys-tattoo-designs-on-arms.jpg)

(https://cdn-ph-web.worldtattoogallery.com/artist--lloyd-nakao--predator-tattoo_19334135644.jpg)

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 21, 2021, 02:00:15 AM
It was too good to be true, the movie (I don't collect comics) and the Alien series. That last one seems to be safe since it is another IP. But I was really excited about Skulls. Maybe I'm drawing premature conclusions, but it feel it fresh to me: A Predator movie with a less obvious title ala Prometheus, sorry :laugh: , a pre-21st and 20th century setting, no firearms, Native Americans, unknown actors make it feel more real, and an actress to play the lead..sigh :'(

Yeah, Dan Trachtenberg, it simply being titled "Skulls" (at least at the moment), takes place in the past, Comanche warriors, female protagonist this time... it was definitely checking all the right excitement boxes for me too so far. Let's hope it's not stopped.

That is some amazing artwork. I need something like that on my arm as well. And yes, let us all think positive and HOPE that Skulls is allowed to continue. I'm eager for it.


Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 21, 2021, 03:04:09 PM
Oh my gosh.. some of these are really cool!  8)

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 21, 2021, 02:41:12 PM
(https://cdn-ph-web.inkedone.com/benkamin-laukis---predator---tattoo------11032015213654.jpg)

This one looks funny though.  :laugh:

Quote from: Proteus on Apr 21, 2021, 09:44:58 AM
Well, if the lawsuit is settled in which SKULLS is allowed to proceed, then I'll get my first tattoo ever. I'd say let's hold a competition on what I should get, but I don't trust you all. 🤣

I'm keen on it.

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 21, 2021, 02:41:12 PM
Yeah, Dan Trachtenberg, it simply being titled "Skulls" (at least at the moment), takes place in the past, Comanche warriors, female protagonist this time... it was definitely checking all the right excitement boxes for me too so far. Let's hope it's not stopped.
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 21, 2021, 03:27:09 AM
Jonesy, I completely agree. This is why I was all for this film. Just felt... fresh. Really give some unknowns an opportunity. Could have been special to see. I'm still holding out for a little hope. One screenwriter friend gave me a tiny sliver by saying, and I quote, "The Evil Disney Lawyers are just wretched enough that they'll find a way to win this." Normally, I don't root for the real life bad guys, but in this instance I am because I WANT SKULLS D*MMIT!

Oh man, as controversial as it sounds, a part of me wants this movie to happen, even if that means Disney winning  :-X A little selfish, I know. But I don't want this movie to die.  :-\

I admit to being overtly selfish. I WANT MORE PREDATOR FILMS! So yeah, fingers cross Skulls doesn't go away.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: [cancerblack] on Apr 22, 2021, 03:40:08 AM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 21, 2021, 09:44:58 AM
Well that went off the rails. Lol


Well, if the lawsuit is settled in which SKULLS is allowed to proceed, then I'll get my first tattoo ever. I'd say let's hold a competition on what I should get, but I don't trust you all. 🤣

Deeply explicit, gay, My Little Pony porn.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Master on Apr 22, 2021, 09:19:18 AM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Apr 22, 2021, 03:40:08 AM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 21, 2021, 09:44:58 AM
Well that went off the rails. Lol


Well, if the lawsuit is settled in which SKULLS is allowed to proceed, then I'll get my first tattoo ever. I'd say let's hold a competition on what I should get, but I don't trust you all. 🤣

Deeply explicit, gay, My Little Pony porn.
I second that.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 22, 2021, 10:56:28 AM
I third that.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 22, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
One of the ponies is at least wearing a Predator mask.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 22, 2021, 11:42:04 AM
Hahaha
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 12:46:16 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
One of the ponies is at least wearing a Predator mask.

I'll do a Thirst Trap Predator. All muscular with just a loin cloth and bio helmet.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 22, 2021, 01:01:09 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 12:46:16 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
One of the ponies is at least wearing a Predator mask.

I'll do a Thirst Trap Predator. All muscular with just a loin cloth and bio helmet.

👀
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 01:58:49 PM
Now this thread is REALLY taking a turn! :laugh:
Back on topic we go please!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 02:14:39 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 01:58:49 PM
Now this thread is REALLY taking a turn! :laugh:
Back on topic we go please!

Okay. On topic. Likelihood judge issues the injunction come May 27th? I say strong.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 22, 2021, 02:29:35 PM
Not until I get my trap Predator sir!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 22, 2021, 05:07:07 PM
 :laugh: That's why I prefer Arcturians lol
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 22, 2021, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 02:14:39 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 01:58:49 PM
Now this thread is REALLY taking a turn! :laugh:
Back on topic we go please!

Okay. On topic. Likelihood judge issues the injunction come May 27th? I say strong.
Yeah, I see the injunction happening (un)fortunately.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2021, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 02:14:39 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 01:58:49 PM
Now this thread is REALLY taking a turn! :laugh:
Back on topic we go please!

Okay. On topic. Likelihood judge issues the injunction come May 27th? I say strong.
Yeah, I see the injunction happening (un)fortunately.

It's a tough bet, but I'd wager the preliminary injunction does not happen, because it's not a question of ownership (at least right now), but just a question of when that date of ownership changes. And if Disney truly has another year, you're essentially taking it away with this injunction in place. Then, say the trial drags out past that extra year, and Disney eventually wins. The question for Disney becomes.. You stopped everything US Court. So what did we win?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 08:59:45 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2021, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 02:14:39 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 01:58:49 PM
Now this thread is REALLY taking a turn! :laugh:
Back on topic we go please!

Okay. On topic. Likelihood judge issues the injunction come May 27th? I say strong.
Yeah, I see the injunction happening (un)fortunately.

It's a tough bet, but I'd wager the preliminary injunction does not happen, because it's not a question of ownership (at least right now), but just a question of when that date of ownership changes. And if Disney truly has another year, you're essentially taking it away with this injunction in place. Then, say the trial drags out past that extra year, and Disney eventually wins. The question for Disney becomes.. You stopped everything US Court. So what did we win?

I hope you're right, my friend. I don't think any of us believe the brothers won't have their franchise back. We're just hoping SKULLS is allowed to continue and be the final entry until change over to them.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 22, 2021, 10:28:33 PM
Yeah, it's not that I am against the brothers to be in favor of the mega corporation. It's just that I have this mad crush on Skulls and I hope it happens somehow.  ;D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 10:38:24 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 22, 2021, 10:28:33 PM
Yeah, it's not that I am against the brothers to be in favor of the mega corporation. It's just that I have this mad crush on Skulls and I hope it happens somehow.  ;D

A HARDCORE CRUSH. I neeeeeeeeed it!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 22, 2021, 11:22:14 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 10:38:24 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 22, 2021, 10:28:33 PM
Yeah, it's not that I am against the brothers to be in favor of the mega corporation. It's just that I have this mad crush on Skulls and I hope it happens somehow.  ;D

A HARDCORE CRUSH. I neeeeeeeeed it!

It's forbidden, as thought by Shakespeare ~

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/138367707angel-animated-gif-8.gif)

And it flies high and away to maybe never come back, leaving behind a copyright battle.  :'(

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/d5f691509ab613dc3968742474295194.gif)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 22, 2021, 11:38:01 PM
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 11:57:18 PM
Hahahahahahahahaha! Perfect video for that.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 23, 2021, 12:16:11 AM
What can I say, I am the antithesis of LT cos I love Skulls  :laugh:

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/giphy-1b9f9e64101d0f0eb.gif)

Edit ~

Which means I'll be really upset if this never happens.  >:(
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 23, 2021, 12:20:34 AM
Give Skulls.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 12:26:06 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2021, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 02:14:39 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 01:58:49 PM
Now this thread is REALLY taking a turn! :laugh:
Back on topic we go please!

Okay. On topic. Likelihood judge issues the injunction come May 27th? I say strong.
Yeah, I see the injunction happening (un)fortunately.

It's a tough bet, but I'd wager the preliminary injunction does not happen, because it's not a question of ownership (at least right now), but just a question of when that date of ownership changes. And if Disney truly has another year, you're essentially taking it away with this injunction in place. Then, say the trial drags out past that extra year, and Disney eventually wins. The question for Disney becomes.. You stopped everything US Court. So what did we win?
Disney's latest counter claim states the provision was not properly filed, and so they can ignore it. Disney is trying to worm out of it entirely - which is why I think the injunction is likely.

EDIT

Per Disney's lawyers:

There now exists between the parties an actual and justiciable controversy concerning the validity of Notice One and 20th Century's and defendants' respective rights. Defendants' notices fail to comply with these statutory requirements and are invalid as a matter of law. 20th Century seeks a declaration pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 2201 that defendants' notices of termination are invalid. This action is necessary because defendants are improperly attempting to prematurely terminate 20th Century's rights to the Hunters Screenplay, at the very time that 20th Century is investing substantial time, money, and effort in developing another installment in its successful Predator franchise.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Huggs on Apr 23, 2021, 12:38:56 AM
They should just make a new alien movie instead.

;D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 01:06:37 AM
At least they definitely have the rights to that one ;D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 23, 2021, 01:11:44 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 12:26:06 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2021, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 02:14:39 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 01:58:49 PM
Now this thread is REALLY taking a turn! :laugh:
Back on topic we go please!

Okay. On topic. Likelihood judge issues the injunction come May 27th? I say strong.
Yeah, I see the injunction happening (un)fortunately.

It's a tough bet, but I'd wager the preliminary injunction does not happen, because it's not a question of ownership (at least right now), but just a question of when that date of ownership changes. And if Disney truly has another year, you're essentially taking it away with this injunction in place. Then, say the trial drags out past that extra year, and Disney eventually wins. The question for Disney becomes.. You stopped everything US Court. So what did we win?
Disney's latest counter claim states the provision was not properly filed, and so they can ignore it. Disney is trying to worm out of it entirely - which is why I think the injunction is likely.

EDIT

Per Disney's lawyers:

There now exists between the parties an actual and justiciable controversy concerning the validity of Notice One and 20th Century's and defendants' respective rights. Defendants' notices fail to comply with these statutory requirements and are invalid as a matter of law. 20th Century seeks a declaration pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 2201 that defendants' notices of termination are invalid. This action is necessary because defendants are improperly attempting to prematurely terminate 20th Century's rights to the Hunters Screenplay, at the very time that 20th Century is investing substantial time, money, and effort in developing another installment in its successful Predator franchise.

Yeah, as much as I don't want an injunction to occur, I just feel like everything will lean toward the brothers. And why wouldn't the judge order in their favor? The franchise after all this time is rightfully theirs.

But man, what awful timing. And I'm sure the pandemic last year didn't help. Perhaps this film could have started production late last year had it not occurred. I mean, Dan did say he'd been working on this for 4 years. So there was sufficient time, but I'm sure there were other roadblocks in the way.

At this point, those 4 years will have been a waste because every fiber of my being is telling me the brothers topple Disney. Ugh.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 23, 2021, 01:28:37 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 23, 2021, 12:38:56 AM
They should just make a new alien movie instead.

;D

But if the brothers win the rights and never get a fair deal with Disney, you'll have to forget about AVP crossovers. That means "you can just kiss all that goodbye!"

Do you think you can handle it?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Huggs on Apr 23, 2021, 02:02:39 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 23, 2021, 01:28:37 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 23, 2021, 12:38:56 AM
They should just make a new alien movie instead.

;D

But if the brothers win the rights and never get a fair deal with Disney, you'll have to forget about AVP crossovers. That means "you can just kiss all that goodbye!"

Do you think you can handle it?

It's already been like 15 years.

I've learned to do without.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 02:24:25 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 12:26:06 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2021, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 02:14:39 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 01:58:49 PM
Now this thread is REALLY taking a turn! :laugh:
Back on topic we go please!

Okay. On topic. Likelihood judge issues the injunction come May 27th? I say strong.
Yeah, I see the injunction happening (un)fortunately.

It's a tough bet, but I'd wager the preliminary injunction does not happen, because it's not a question of ownership (at least right now), but just a question of when that date of ownership changes. And if Disney truly has another year, you're essentially taking it away with this injunction in place. Then, say the trial drags out past that extra year, and Disney eventually wins. The question for Disney becomes.. You stopped everything US Court. So what did we win?
Disney's latest counter claim states the provision was not properly filed, and so they can ignore it. Disney is trying to worm out of it entirely - which is why I think the injunction is likely.

EDIT

Per Disney's lawyers:

There now exists between the parties an actual and justiciable controversy concerning the validity of Notice One and 20th Century's and defendants' respective rights. Defendants' notices fail to comply with these statutory requirements and are invalid as a matter of law. 20th Century seeks a declaration pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 2201 that defendants' notices of termination are invalid. This action is necessary because defendants are improperly attempting to prematurely terminate 20th Century's rights to the Hunters Screenplay, at the very time that 20th Century is investing substantial time, money, and effort in developing another installment in its successful Predator franchise.

Above I see prematurely as the key word. And that goes to my point, that if it takes approximately 6 months to a year for the courts to make a ruling, and they do rule in Disney's favor, you've essentially taken away the extra time Disney was entitled to with this injunction.

QuoteDisney is trying to worm out of it entirely

Again, the word "prematurely" suggests otherwise. It suggests a problem with a termination date, not the eventual termination.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 23, 2021, 02:28:37 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 23, 2021, 02:02:39 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 23, 2021, 01:28:37 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 23, 2021, 12:38:56 AM
They should just make a new alien movie instead.

;D

But if the brothers win the rights and never get a fair deal with Disney, you'll have to forget about AVP crossovers. That means "you can just kiss all that goodbye!"

Do you think you can handle it?

It's already been like 15 years.

I've learned to do without.

:o

But but what about the toys, games, novels and tracing books? 

Won't you miss future releases of that ???


Edit -

Now that I think about it, they can morph Skulls into an Alien movie by making a JJ. Abrams.

(https://i.ibb.co/4dsS6cp/Pics-Art-04-22-10-23-40-removebg-preview.png)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 02:35:00 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 23, 2021, 02:28:37 AM
But but what about the toys, games, novels and tracing books? 

Won't you miss future releases of that ???


I definitely would!  :'(
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 23, 2021, 02:44:43 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 02:35:00 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 23, 2021, 02:28:37 AM
But but what about the toys, games, novels and tracing books? 

Won't you miss future releases of that ???


I definitely would!  :'(

Me too! I am not into books and comics, but I am always interested in video games and of course in movies, which I own.  :'(
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 23, 2021, 02:48:43 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 23, 2021, 02:28:37 AM
Now that I think about it, they can morph Skulls into an Alien movie by making a JJ. Abrams.

(https://i.ibb.co/4dsS6cp/Pics-Art-04-22-10-23-40-removebg-preview.png)

Wouldn't be the first time JJ pulled that move on Trachtenberg. ;)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 23, 2021, 03:38:47 AM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 23, 2021, 02:48:43 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 23, 2021, 02:28:37 AM
Now that I think about it, they can morph Skulls into an Alien movie by making a JJ. Abrams.

(https://i.ibb.co/4dsS6cp/Pics-Art-04-22-10-23-40-removebg-preview.png)

Wouldn't be the first time JJ pulled that move on Trachtenberg. ;)

I see what you did there!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 04:38:18 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 02:24:25 AM

Above I see prematurely as the key word.
The key phrase I see is immediately before that - they are arguing the notice of termination is invalid. If the judge rules the notice was invalid, the Brothers get nothing as t means they didn't follow the correct process.

EDIT

Even if they are only initially saying it's premature, establishing that there was an error in their notice opens the door for Fox/Disney to argue that the whole notice is therefore invalid and the Brothers aren't entitled to anything.

It's basically the only legal pathway they have to not giving the rights back and renegotiating. If they can successfully argue the correct process wasn't followed, the whole thing disappears.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 23, 2021, 10:04:40 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 04:38:18 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 02:24:25 AM

Above I see prematurely as the key word.
The key phrase I see is immediately before that - they are arguing the notice of termination is invalid. If the judge rules the notice was invalid, the Brothers get nothing as t means they didn't follow the correct process.

EDIT

Even if they are only initially saying it's premature, establishing that there was an error in their notice opens the door for Fox/Disney to argue that the whole notice is therefore invalid and the Brothers aren't entitled to anything.

It's basically the only legal pathway they have to not giving the rights back and renegotiating. If they can successfully argue the correct process wasn't followed, the whole thing disappears.

Okay, hypothetical: Let's say Disney is correct about the termination date, the judge does not issue an injunction, and the legal issue is now pushed to June 2022, does that mean if SKULLS completes the filming 100% including trailers and marketing by June of that year that it now falls under the sequels the brothers cannot touch?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 12:43:13 PM
Basically if the movie is completed before the rights transfer then even if the Brothers take their toys and go home, it's safe.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 04:38:18 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 02:24:25 AM
Even if they are only initially saying it's premature, establishing that there was an error in their notice opens the door for Fox/Disney to argue that the whole notice is therefore invalid and the Brothers aren't entitled to anything.

It's basically the only legal pathway they have to not giving the rights back and renegotiating. If they can successfully argue the correct process wasn't followed, the whole thing disappears.

You can speculate that, sure. Who knows for certain what options they are weighing. But if I was Disney and my goal was to exploit that the Thomas Brothers claim as null & void because they screwed up the reclaim eligibility window, my lawsuit would state that. And the last thing I'd acknowledge in any legal claim is that the Thomas Brothers are trying to prematurely terminate the rights too early, because you're acknowledging right inside that legal filing that The Thomas Brothers reclaim of Predator is valid, but it's just too early.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 23, 2021, 01:01:51 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 04:38:18 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 02:24:25 AM
Even if they are only initially saying it's premature, establishing that there was an error in their notice opens the door for Fox/Disney to argue that the whole notice is therefore invalid and the Brothers aren't entitled to anything.

It's basically the only legal pathway they have to not giving the rights back and renegotiating. If they can successfully argue the correct process wasn't followed, the whole thing disappears.

You can speculate that, sure. Who knows for certain what options they are weighing. But if I was Disney and my goal was to exploit that the Thomas Brothers claim as null & void because they screwed up the reclaim eligibility window, my lawsuit would state that. And the last thing I'd acknowledge in any legal claim is that the Thomas Brothers are trying to prematurely terminate the rights too early, because you're acknowledging right inside that legal filing that The Thomas Brothers reclaim of Predator is valid, but it's just too early.


Do you think the move may be to see what the judge is willing to enact, and if it favors the brothers plus an injunction, Disney then goes, "Fine, here's an offer we think you can't refuse," and hope the brothers take the money and run? Or do the brothers–despite the window of initial renegotiation passing–turn to Disney again and tell them, "You want it? Then this is the asking price or we go elsewhere"?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 12:51:32 PM
But if I was Disney and my goal was to exploit that the Thomas Brothers claim as null & void because they screwed up the reclaim eligibility window, my lawsuit would state that.
It does.

Defendants' notices fail to comply with these statutory requirements and are invalid as a matter of law.

QuoteAnd the last thing I'd acknowledge in any legal claim is that the Thomas Brothers are trying to prematurely terminate the rights too early, because you're acknowledging right inside that legal filing that The Thomas Brothers reclaim of Predator is valid, but it's just too early.
They have to acknowledge that the law provides them the right to retain the rights because it does. But if they can prove that the filing was in error, they can have the entire claim thrown out as it would mean the Brothers did not meet their obligations in trying to retrieve the rights. If the error was being premature, that is still an error.

That's all entirely secondary to the point, which is that an injunction is likely as A) the Brothers should have had the rights back already if their filing was correct and B) if their dates were wrong but they're still entitled they need to find out what the actual timing is to settle things and C) they might have no case if Disney can prove they made an error that invalidates the entire claim.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 01:30:21 PM
Again, it's all speculation. Bolding "are invalid as a matter of law" doesn't make the point stronger. Language is important, and if you read the entire paragraph you posted, Disney is only arguing to the invalidity of the notices, which subsequently makes the Thomas Brothers claim premature. They are not arguing that the Thomas Brothers no longer have a claim to Predator because of it.

" There now exists between the parties an actual and justiciable controversy concerning the validity of Notice One and 20th Century's and defendants' respective rights. Defendants' notices fail to comply with these statutory requirements and are invalid as a matter of law. 20th Century seeks a declaration pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 2201 that defendants' notices of termination are invalid. This action is necessary because defendants are improperly attempting to prematurely terminate 20th Century's rights to the Hunters Screenplay, at the very time that 20th Century is investing substantial time, money, and effort in developing another installment in its successful Predator franchise."

Would Disney want the rights of Predator exclusively? Of course. Can they cancel the Thomas Brothers claim forever because, while apparently timely, there was an error or errors in the filing? I don't know. Neither do you. But all we have is the information that's been provided to us, and the information provided to us in Disney's counter-claim is not indicating that the Thomas Brothers claim is no longer invalid, it's not, but rather just premature.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 01:39:28 PM
The notices are required to be valid for the provision to take effect. Disney is saying they are not valid, ergo.

This is still besides the larger point of why an injunction is likely. There are too many things that need to get resolved. That's entirely the point of an injunction - to stop things getting messier so everything can get sorted.

Honestly at this point it feels like you're disagreeing with me for the sake of it every time I post here.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 01:54:16 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 01:39:28 PM
Honestly at this point it feels like you're disagreeing with me for the sake of it every time I post here.

SiL, I think you started this one brother. In this latest conversation, all I did was post my opinion on injunction likelihood that Proteus inquiried about :

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2021, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 02:14:39 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 01:58:49 PM
Now this thread is REALLY taking a turn! :laugh:
Back on topic we go please!

Okay. On topic. Likelihood judge issues the injunction come May 27th? I say strong.
Yeah, I see the injunction happening (un)fortunately.

It's a tough bet, but I'd wager the preliminary injunction does not happen, because it's not a question of ownership (at least right now), but just a question of when that date of ownership changes. And if Disney truly has another year, you're essentially taking it away with this injunction in place. Then, say the trial drags out past that extra year, and Disney eventually wins. The question for Disney becomes.. You stopped everything US Court. So what did we win?

While it was my opinion, you disagreed with it, gave your many reasons why, which is fine, and our conversation ensued.

So... welcome to discussion forums!  :)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Xiggz456 on Apr 23, 2021, 02:33:00 PM
Just my two cents but it is coming across as Voodoo jumping all over Sil as though he's spouting misinformation when all of Sil's posts have been well constructed. It's coming across like this:

My speculation is right and your speculation is wrong

I get that we're all justifiably worried but as someone who's had some experience in Contract Law, I think Sil's speculation has been solid and fully based on the Language presented. Obviously Language can be interpreted differently and that's why we have to "wait and see" how the judge interprets said Language but we can and should respect all the different angles that this motion can entail without attacking each other's theories.  :)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 02:52:57 PM
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Apr 23, 2021, 02:33:00 PM
Just my two cents but it is coming across as Voodoo jumping all over Sil as though he's spouting misinformation when all of Sil's posts have been well constructed. It's coming across like this:

My speculation is right and your speculation is wrong

I get that we're all justifiably worried but as someone who's had some experience in Contract Law, I think Sil's speculation has been solid and fully based on the Language presented. Obviously Language can be interpreted differently and that's why we have to "wait and see" how the judge interprets said Language but we can and should respect all the different angles that this motion can entail without attacking each other's theories.  :)

Jumping all over SiL I think is a bit of hyperbole. If one looks, I didn't begin this latest conversation and SiL has countered my posts as well as others with his own speculation. But that's okay. It really is. That's what we do here. Discussion board. Point and counter point. :)

In regards to this legal complaint and counter complaint, I'm just trying my best to interpret the actual words on the legal filings and only what is on the legal filings as best as I can. I used to do this at my job. But even I have to catch myself inserting speculation.  ;)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 23, 2021, 03:20:04 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 02:52:57 PM
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Apr 23, 2021, 02:33:00 PM
Just my two cents but it is coming across as Voodoo jumping all over Sil as though he's spouting misinformation when all of Sil's posts have been well constructed. It's coming across like this:

My speculation is right and your speculation is wrong

I get that we're all justifiably worried but as someone who's had some experience in Contract Law, I think Sil's speculation has been solid and fully based on the Language presented. Obviously Language can be interpreted differently and that's why we have to "wait and see" how the judge interprets said Language but we can and should respect all the different angles that this motion can entail without attacking each other's theories.  :)

Jumping all over SiL I think is a bit of hyperbole. If one looks, I didn't begin this latest conversation and SiL has countered my posts as well as others with his own speculation. But that's okay. It really is. That's what we do here. Discussion board. Point and counter point. :)

In regards to this legal complaint and counter complaint, I'm just trying my best to interpret the actual words on the legal filings and only what is on the legal filings as best as I can. I used to do this at my job. But even I have to catch myself inserting speculation.  ;)


Hey, we should all strive in sharing our opinions and discussing other's opinions without rancor.

At the end of the day, we know little of what may happen. I am of the side in hoping things are resolved swiftly and without need for injunction so that we as fans can hopefully have SKULLS.

But that's it. That's all I have currently. Hope. We shall see what happens in a month.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Indeed!

Quote from: Proteus on Apr 23, 2021, 03:20:04 PM
At the end of the day, we know little of what may happen.

And isn't that the truth! We haven't even been privy to Disney's full counter legal complaint yet. Here SiL and I are debating just a paragraph or so, and there could be much more content to review in Disney's countersuit. In that prism, I must admit, it's silly at this point. :P

Ugh, the wait to May 27th for just the injunction will be grueling.  :-\
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Stitch on Apr 23, 2021, 05:01:41 PM
I haven't read the whole legal paper, but if Disney's claim is that the Thomas brothers' suit is legally invalid because it wasn't filed properly, doesn't that indirectly imply that if filed correctly, Disney would lose? It sounds like a legal loophole that they're trying to exploit because they know they're going to lose.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 23, 2021, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: Stitch on Apr 23, 2021, 05:01:41 PM
I haven't read the whole legal paper, but if Disney's claim is that the Thomas brothers' suit is legally invalid because it wasn't filed properly, doesn't that indirectly imply that if filed correctly, Disney would lose? It sounds like a legal loophole that they're trying to exploit because they know they're going to lose.

I won't claim to know how these legal proceedings will go or if anything I say could be possible, but is it feasible that Disney is betting on the filing being incorrect, the termination date is wrong, and there will be no injunction so that they delay until 2022 so they can proceed with SKULLS, since they've invested time and money into it. I feel like at this point Disney just wants to get one film in before losing the rights.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 06:56:55 PM
^ Yep, it certainly seems that way from what we've seen so far.

So if the court finds the Termination Notice invalid, according to the Thomas Brothers legal complaint, this should happen:


And at this point we haven't seen anything pubically yet where Disney's legal team said the Predator copyright should never go back to the Thomas Brothers, at least not yet.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 23, 2021, 07:50:26 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 06:56:55 PM
^ Yep, it certainly seems that way from what we've seen so far.

So if the court finds the Termination Notice invalid, according to the Thomas Brothers legal complaint, this should happen:



  • In the unlikely event the Court finds the Termination Notice is invalid, Plaintiffs' Second Termination Notice or Third Termination Notice is valid, with effective termination dates of June 14, 2022 or January 13, 2023, respectively.

And at this point we haven't seen anything pubically yet where Disney's legal team said the Predator copyright should never go back to the Thomas Brothers, at least not yet.

Yeah, details suggest that no one is disputing the rights claim. I think most of us also KNOW the brothers are attaining the rights. It's just a matter of when. I just now think Disney is fighting to get SKULLS out if only to make some money on a property they started working on.

Beyond that, who knows motivations.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 09:25:24 PM
The problem with using the wording of the Brothers' complaint to interpret Disney's stance is that Disney posted a new counterclaim after the Brothers' complaint. But the full text of that claim hasn't been made available.

From how it's been described in various media channels - including the quoted paragraph we've been discussing already - the claim seems to have shifted from "you're early" to "your claim is invalid and you get nothing". The one extra bit I can find is from Hollywood Reporter:

While federal statutory copyright law endows certain grantors, like defendants [the Thomas brothers], with copyright termination rights, such rights may only be exercised in accordance with the statute's requirements, including provisions delineating when termination notices may be served and when the termination of rights becomes effective," states the 20th Century complaint. "Defendants' notices fail to comply with these statutory requirements and are invalid as a matter of law.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/predator-screenwriters-suing-disney-to-recapture-rightswzz

From what little we've seen it does look like Disney's lawyers are trying to prove statutory requirements were not met for the action to be legally valid.

How this resolves, only time will tell.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 10:03:29 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 09:25:24 PM
The problem with using the wording of the Brothers' complaint to interpret Disney's stance is that Disney posted a new counterclaim after the Brothers' complaint. But the full text of that claim hasn't been made available.

That's why I wrote the caveat "according to the Thomas Brothers legal complaint" so we know it's according to them.

QuoteFrom how it's been described in various media channels - including the quoted paragraph we've been discussing already - the claim seems to have shifted from "you're early" to "your claim is invalid and you get nothing".

See the "you get nothing" you threw in there has been our point of contention. We haven't been able to confirm that aspect yet, with what's been provided.

But good news! I was just emailed that Disney's counter-claim is available while typing this. Let me check this out and be back. :)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 10:38:43 PM
Okay, it appears that in January 2023 the Thomas Brothers may very well get their Predator (Hunter) copyright back.

The lowdown: The Thomas Brothers legal representation sent Fox/ Disney three (3) Termination notices to reclaim Predator.

1st Notice: Mainly referenced an incorrect copyright number. Hunter script was never registered at the copyright office (which doesn't need to by law) but the Predator rewrite script was, and that's the copyright number that they incorrectly referenced. INVALID PER DISNEY

2nd Notice: Mainly corrected first notice but termination date was now less than two years required by law from notice. INVALID PER DISNEY

3rd Notice: Other than acknowledgement of receipt, nothing in the Disney countersuit is saying it's invalid.

So far, this is just about getting the first two termination notices declared as invalid. Disney is not arguing that the Thomas Brothers don't get the copyright back.

Doc is here:
https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/FILED_Complaint-with-Exhibits.pdf
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 10:49:35 PM
Great find and good news! So each date was a separate notice, rather than caveats on the original, and they're only arguing the soonest two are invalid. Sweet.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 23, 2021, 10:58:48 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 10:49:35 PM
Great find and good news! So each date was a separate notice, rather than caveats on the original, and they're only arguing the soonest two are invalid. Sweet.

Look, I'm not saying the brothers shouldn't have the rights back. I think most of us feel this way, BUT if it turns out that 2023 is the real date, then awesome. That's 2 years of trying to pump out as much Predator material as possible (for better or worse), and honesty as a fan, PELT ME WITH CONTENT.

At the end of the day, I just want SKULLS to happen, man. I'm happy with just that until the brothers retain rights.

Let's hope those early dates are invalid.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SizzyBubbles on Apr 23, 2021, 11:01:16 PM
I just want some Predator content guys.  :-
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 11:03:14 PM
If Disney's only claiming the first two notices are invalid then it's possible the Brothers withdraw those notices and just leave the uncontested 2023 date open, avoiding the whole nightmare.

Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 23, 2021, 11:18:37 PM
Quote from: SizzyBubbles on Apr 23, 2021, 11:01:16 PM
I just want some Predator content guys.  :-

ME TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SizzyBubbles on Apr 23, 2021, 11:47:48 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 23, 2021, 11:18:37 PM
Quote from: SizzyBubbles on Apr 23, 2021, 11:01:16 PM
I just want some Predator content guys.  :-

ME TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

(sobs)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 23, 2021, 11:48:55 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 11:03:14 PM
If Disney's only claiming the first two notices are invalid then it's possible the Brothers withdraw those notices and just leave the uncontested 2023 date open, avoiding the whole nightmare.

Fingers crossed.

🤞🏽
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 23, 2021, 11:50:05 PM
I like your profile picture Sizzy.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SizzyBubbles on Apr 24, 2021, 12:22:11 AM
Thank you! It was a payed commission by "Zyden" of one of my personal characters. Good stuff: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/g2Gw1m (https://www.artstation.com/artwork/g2Gw1m)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 24, 2021, 12:26:59 AM
You an artist yourself?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 24, 2021, 12:41:27 AM
Take it to the DMs my dudes
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 24, 2021, 12:47:28 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 24, 2021, 12:41:27 AM
Take it to the DMs my dudes

Yeah, GET A ROOM!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 24, 2021, 12:55:24 AM
Alright geez, asking because I remember their picture of how to draw an Alien from reference, not trace- being pretty good in the Marvel thread.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 24, 2021, 12:58:54 AM
And you can do that via DM ???
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 24, 2021, 01:30:22 AM
I said alright already, I'm surprised anyone cares, I will let you get back to the speculation then. 😅
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SizzyBubbles on Apr 24, 2021, 01:33:26 AM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 24, 2021, 12:47:28 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 24, 2021, 12:41:27 AM
Take it to the DMs my dudes

Yeah, GET A ROOM!

Hahhaaa Sorry, off topic.

Anyway. Here's a Predator in copyright jail.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ezs9FAQUUAE0JtZ?format=jpg&name=small)
The alien seems to be enjoying it though.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 24, 2021, 01:34:28 AM
Today in pictures you can hear.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 24, 2021, 06:02:01 AM
The Battle for Predator: Examining Disney's Complaint
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/04/24/the-battle-for-predator-examining-disneys-complaint/
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 24, 2021, 12:18:20 PM
Nice breakdown! It's good to finally have the full text of Disney's latest counterclaim so we know where everything stands.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 24, 2021, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 24, 2021, 12:18:20 PM
Nice breakdown! It's good to finally have the full text of Disney's latest counterclaim so we know where everything stands.

It feels like Disney is grasping at straws here. Those of you with legal experience: does Disney even have valid points of the first two termination dates? I'm thinking the judge is going to read through that first one, roll their eyes, and grant the brothers their claim.

I'm hoping Disney at that point opens Scrooge McDuck's massive vault of gold and tells the brothers to take what they want and leave the rights.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 24, 2021, 01:10:42 PM
That they're only going after the first two seems reasonable. If the first had an incorrect copyright number and the second was too short a notice, fine. But they don't even touch the third notice, so it seems as though they're accepting that one is valid.

Now we see the full wording of the claim it looks like disney is just trying to have the soonest two dates thrown out on technicalities, but is resigned to the third. So unless they renegotiate, expect the rights to revert by 2023
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Apr 24, 2021, 01:37:07 PM
Assuming Skulls does well I can imagine they'd negotiate with the brothers for the film rights.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: The Necronoir on Apr 24, 2021, 01:40:32 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 24, 2021, 01:10:42 PM
That they're only going after the first two seems reasonable. If the first had an incorrect copyright number and the second was too short a notice, fine. But they don't even touch the third notice, so it seems as though they're accepting that one is valid.

Now we see the full wording of the claim it looks like disney is just trying to have the soonest two dates thrown out on technicalities, but is resigned to the third. So unless they renegotiate, expect the rights to revert by 2023

I'm inclined to view that purely as a tactic to avoid a preliminary injunction. If they're seen to agree to one of the dates the brothers are willing to accept, the judge is less likely to put a freeze on any projects in the interim. Meanwhile, Disney gets another two years to assess their position and either attempt to negotiate, launch a legal offensive, or (least likely) just let the rights revert.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 24, 2021, 01:41:24 PM
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Apr 24, 2021, 01:37:07 PM
Assuming Skulls does well I can imagine they'd negotiate with the brothers for the film rights.

That's assuming and hoping a judge doesn't pass an injunction and favors Disney's claims on the first two termination notices. Then, if SKULLS is allowed to proceed on course with filming, they have to release that film no later than fall next year to give time at box office and show those numbers.

Fingers crossed, mate.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: molasar on Apr 24, 2021, 01:59:02 PM
As always, good job VM.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 24, 2021, 06:22:51 PM
Thanks brother! And SiL too. Much appreciated.

Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Master on Apr 24, 2021, 08:05:30 PM
Great job indeed Guys!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 24, 2021, 08:43:21 PM
Top tier synthesis, Voodoo! Now I understand it much better. Thank you very much. :)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 25, 2021, 02:36:34 AM
That's great to hear IJ! Thanks so much!

Quote from: The Necronoir on Apr 24, 2021, 01:40:32 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 24, 2021, 01:10:42 PM
That they're only going after the first two seems reasonable. If the first had an incorrect copyright number and the second was too short a notice, fine. But they don't even touch the third notice, so it seems as though they're accepting that one is valid.

Now we see the full wording of the claim it looks like disney is just trying to have the soonest two dates thrown out on technicalities, but is resigned to the third. So unless they renegotiate, expect the rights to revert by 2023

I'm inclined to view that purely as a tactic to avoid a preliminary injunction. If they're seen to agree to one of the dates the brothers are willing to accept, the judge is less likely to put a freeze on any projects in the interim. Meanwhile, Disney gets another two years to assess their position and either attempt to negotiate, launch a legal offensive, or (least likely) just let the rights revert.

Interesting theory Necronoir! I guess we can't rule anything out!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kailem on Apr 25, 2021, 05:35:53 PM
Dammit Voodoo just tell us everything's gonna be ok!! :'( :D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Apr 25, 2021, 05:41:19 PM
Don't worry, everything is gonna be okay...

Spoiler
...as long as The Predator stays the last movie in the franchise
[close]
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 25, 2021, 06:10:41 PM
Quote from: Kailem on Apr 25, 2021, 05:35:53 PM
Dammit Voodoo just tell us everything's gonna be ok!! :'( :D

But... but... you were supposed to tell me everything was going to be okay! :laugh:

Quote from: Kradan on Apr 25, 2021, 05:41:19 PM
Don't worry, everything is gonna be okay...

Spoiler
...as long as The Predator stays the last movie in the franchise
[close]

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/InfantileDisloyalBordercollie-max-1mb.gif)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 25, 2021, 06:14:30 PM
 :o

Quote from: Kradan on Apr 25, 2021, 05:41:19 PM
Don't worry, everything is gonna be okay...

Spoiler
...as long as The Predator stays the last movie in the franchise
[close]

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/tenor9d05bc005543cef8.gif)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 25, 2021, 06:17:25 PM
It's all gonna be alright uguise!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Apr 25, 2021, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 25, 2021, 06:14:30 PM
:o

Quote from: Kradan on Apr 25, 2021, 05:41:19 PM
Don't worry, everything is gonna be okay...

Spoiler
...as long as The Predator stays the last movie in the franchise
[close]

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/tenor9d05bc005543cef8.gif)

I thought it was you who were supposed to have a degree in upsetology
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 25, 2021, 06:31:02 PM
That's Local Trouble you're thinking of.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Apr 25, 2021, 06:33:45 PM
I'm gonna dig up that quote. One moment ...


Ok, found it

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Mar 24, 2021, 05:08:24 AM
I have a PhD in upsetiology
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 25, 2021, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 25, 2021, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 25, 2021, 06:14:30 PM
:o

Quote from: Kradan on Apr 25, 2021, 05:41:19 PM
Don't worry, everything is gonna be okay...

Spoiler
...as long as The Predator stays the last movie in the franchise
[close]

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/tenor9d05bc005543cef8.gif)

I thought it was you who were supposed to have a degree in upsetology

But you know I love Skulls  :'(

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/5730r3c503aa1fd905be93.gif)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Yautja888 on Apr 25, 2021, 06:48:37 PM
Even if it's unlikely, wouldn't it be the coolest thing ever if the Thomas brothers WW2 battle of the Bulge pitch is used for a new Predator movie ?  It could happen.I want it to happen.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Apr 25, 2021, 07:02:25 PM
Quote from: Yautja888 on Apr 25, 2021, 06:48:37 PM
Thomas brothers WW2 battle of the Bulge pitch

What is it and why I've never heard about it before ? I'd love Predator movie set in WWI/II
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 25, 2021, 07:37:46 PM
Yeah that could be cool. If Skulls go the distance and is somewhat successful, it could open the door for other predator movies set in past eras.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 25, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 25, 2021, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 25, 2021, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 25, 2021, 06:14:30 PM
:o

Quote from: Kradan on Apr 25, 2021, 05:41:19 PM
Don't worry, everything is gonna be okay...

Spoiler
...as long as The Predator stays the last movie in the franchise
[close]

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/tenor9d05bc005543cef8.gif)

I thought it was you who were supposed to have a degree in upsetology

But you know I love Skulls  :'(

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/5730r3c503aa1fd905be93.gif)

I know! It sucks loving something that doesn't even exist! Ugh! I'm going to be heartbroken if this is cancelled.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Boba on Apr 26, 2021, 10:05:25 AM
It's too bad we can only attend the hearing virtually, with all the conventions cancelled I miss wearing my Predator cosplay. Maybe in 2023 for the trial!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 26, 2021, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: Boba on Apr 26, 2021, 10:05:25 AM
It's too bad we can only attend the hearing virtually, with all the conventions cancelled I miss wearing my Predator cosplay. Maybe in 2023 for the trial!

Let's hope we get until 2023.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 26, 2021, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 25, 2021, 07:37:46 PM
Yeah that could be cool. If Skulls go the distance and is somewhat successful, it could open the door for other predator movies set in past eras.

Yesssssssss!!!!!

An anthology of Predator period piece films! Can you imagine it?

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/2sjwYkWtDdrOZxu9Mg/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 26, 2021, 02:27:54 PM
Hell yeah I'm all for it !
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Apr 26, 2021, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 26, 2021, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 25, 2021, 07:37:46 PM
Yeah that could be cool. If Skulls go the distance and is somewhat successful, it could open the door for other predator movies set in past eras.

Yesssssssss!!!!!

An anthology of Predator period piece films! Can you imagine it?

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/2sjwYkWtDdrOZxu9Mg/giphy.gif)

Keep dreaming
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Master on Apr 26, 2021, 05:55:09 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 26, 2021, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 25, 2021, 07:37:46 PM
Yeah that could be cool. If Skulls go the distance and is somewhat successful, it could open the door for other predator movies set in past eras.

Yesssssssss!!!!!

An anthology of Predator period piece films! Can you imagine it?

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/2sjwYkWtDdrOZxu9Mg/giphy.gif)

Well, that's not exactly what I have in mind for Predator sequel.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 26, 2021, 08:13:48 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 26, 2021, 01:38:50 PM
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 25, 2021, 07:37:46 PM
Yeah that could be cool. If Skulls go the distance and is somewhat successful, it could open the door for other predator movies set in past eras.

Yesssssssss!!!!!

An anthology of Predator period piece films! Can you imagine it?

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/2sjwYkWtDdrOZxu9Mg/giphy.gif)

Wow, something like that would be a breathtakingly jewel.  :o




Quote from: Proteus on Apr 25, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
I know! It sucks loving something that doesn't even exist! Ugh! I'm going to be heartbroken if this is cancelled.

I can finally empathize with religion.  :-X
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 26, 2021, 08:14:49 PM
🙏

Quote from: Master on Apr 26, 2021, 05:55:09 PM
Well, that's not exactly what I have in mind for Predator sequel.

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/9SIXFu7bIUYHhFc19G/giphy.gif)

;D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 27, 2021, 01:45:26 AM
Do we know if/how this is affecting AVP media at the moment? Notably, that AVP anthology book with the Sigler story?

I'd imagine that is getting indefinitely delayed just like everything else...
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 27, 2021, 01:49:23 AM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 27, 2021, 01:45:26 AM
Do we know if/how this is affecting AVP media at the moment? Notably, that AVP anthology book with the Sigler story?

I'd imagine that is getting indefinitely delayed just like everything else...

Nothing is delayed until an injunction is passed. I have to assume that they're assuming everything is still a go.

Fingers crossed that we won't have to worry until 2023. By then, I won't care if it goes to the brothers, but right now we have a lot of content ready to come out.


Thirty days and counting... 😩
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Anti-Woke on Apr 27, 2021, 06:56:18 PM
I really hope Dan Trachtenberg's movie gets canned. It looks like it has the works of work propaganda already. Can we please just have a normal movie that isn't about gender norms and all that bullshit. I want a return to the likes of the original movie or at least predator 2. Please, no SJW crap.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Anti-Woke on Apr 27, 2021, 07:05:43 PM
Please put an injunction on it. I can already tell Disney is about to make a woke ass predator. Give it back to the original owners and let them revive it.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Master on Apr 28, 2021, 05:48:32 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 26, 2021, 08:14:49 PM
🙏

Quote from: Master on Apr 26, 2021, 05:55:09 PM
Well, that's not exactly what I have in mind for Predator sequel.

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/9SIXFu7bIUYHhFc19G/giphy.gif)

;D


I'd love true Predator 2 sequel, that continuities where P2 left. I'm not taking direct sequel, but thematically relevant
continuation. I've said many times what I would want, but rather not to repeat myself I just sat my ass down and started writing my own script. The whole story is conceived and I'm currently 1/3 in act II with writing. I have to finish it and then translate it to English, cause I'm no native speaker, which is a bitch and some things might get lost in translation. I expect to finish it this year or maybe Q1-2 of the next. I'm hard working father of two so free time is hard to come by  :D

P.S.
Spoiler
This Gif is awesome!
[close]
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Stitch on Apr 28, 2021, 09:04:02 AM
Quote from: Anti-Woke on Apr 27, 2021, 06:56:18 PM
I really hope Dan Trachtenberg's movie gets canned. It looks like it has the works of work propaganda already. Can we please just have a normal movie that isn't about gender norms and all that bullshit. I want a return to the likes of the original movie or at least predator 2. Please, no SJW crap.
Quote from: Anti-Woke on Apr 27, 2021, 07:05:43 PM
Please put an injunction on it. I can already tell Disney is about to make a woke ass predator. Give it back to the original owners and let them revive it.

Name checks out
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 28, 2021, 09:11:48 AM
Quote from: Master on Apr 28, 2021, 05:48:32 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 26, 2021, 08:14:49 PM
🙏

Quote from: Master on Apr 26, 2021, 05:55:09 PM
Well, that's not exactly what I have in mind for Predator sequel.

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/9SIXFu7bIUYHhFc19G/giphy.gif)

;D


I'd love true Predator 2 sequel, that continuities where P2 left. I'm not taking direct sequel, but thematically relevant
continuation. I've said many times what I would want, but rather not to repeat myself I just sat my ass down and started writing my own script. The whole story is conceived and I'm currently 1/3 in act II with writing. I have to finish it and then translate it to English, cause I'm no native speaker, which is a bitch and some things might get lost in translation. I expect to finish it this year or maybe Q1-2 of the next. I'm hard working father of two so free time is hard to come by  :D

P.S.
Spoiler
This Gif is awesome!
[close]

I would be interested in reading it, if it's ok with you of course.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Master on Apr 28, 2021, 11:39:04 AM
Yeah, I'll share it when it's done. I'm no filmmaker, nor I'm delusional some studio will ever pick it, so the work is mainly for the fanbase.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 28, 2021, 11:56:12 AM
Quote from: Anti-Woke on Apr 27, 2021, 07:05:43 PM
Please put an injunction on it. I can already tell Disney is about to make a woke ass predator. Give it back to the original owners and let them revive it.

I REALLY hope Disney wins now.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Anti-Woke on Apr 28, 2021, 01:06:55 PM
I guess you didn't learn anything from Terminator: Dark Turd.  Having a lead female in a movie is perfectly okay, look at the alien movies, but when you make it about gender norms and all that, it's a movie headed for the toilet. Watchmen series was woke as hell and was dogshit. Terminator: Dark Fate was woke as hell, it bombed. Just make a normal ass predator movie that's scary and not about gender norms. Just f**king fight the predator and shut the f**k up.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2021, 01:22:00 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 27, 2021, 01:49:23 AM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 27, 2021, 01:45:26 AM
Do we know if/how this is affecting AVP media at the moment? Notably, that AVP anthology book with the Sigler story?

I'd imagine that is getting indefinitely delayed just like everything else...

Nothing is delayed until an injunction is passed. I have to assume that they're assuming everything is still a go.

I speak with no certainty but it's possible the Predator Hunting Grounds video game Anniversary update and DLC (Downloadable Content) has perhaps been delayed because of it. (We know it's delayed, with no reschedule, just no confirmation yet from the developer on why.)

It may be a case of selling a chargeable DLC to fans starting this week, only for a judge to rule for a Preliminary Injunction on May 27th retroactively beginning April 17th, requiring the game developer to de-update the content on people's consoles and refund the buyers? Sounds like an impossible mess.

The AvP Anthology might be in a similar situation? Full stop until further notice. I think I would order that if in charge. Why invest any more money if you're unsure at the moment you will be able to release & sell it.

We really need to know how this copyright termination law applies to projects that have already started but not finished post a copyright termination date. That's the real question I think.

Quote from: Master on Apr 28, 2021, 05:48:32 AM
Spoiler
This Gif is awesome!
[close]

Spoiler
Best. Gif. Ever!
[close]

Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 28, 2021, 09:11:48 AM
I would be interested in reading it, if it's ok with you of course.

Seconded!  :)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Apr 28, 2021, 04:34:17 PM
Just a thought but I wonder if we can get Legal Eagle over on Youtube to cover this.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: PAS Spinelli on Apr 28, 2021, 04:55:22 PM
Some people from Illfonic Forums are saying alot of dumb shit while sharing info on Reddit
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824292545164214375/837008205174407218/unknown.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824292545164214375/837009034435362876/unknown.png)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Apr 28, 2021, 05:02:42 PM
Oh humanity
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 28, 2021, 05:11:26 PM
And people ask me why I'm a misanthrope sometimes.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Apr 28, 2021, 05:12:50 PM
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Apr 28, 2021, 04:55:22 PM
Some people from Illfonic Forums are saying alot of dumb shit while sharing info on Reddit
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824292545164214375/837008205174407218/unknown.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824292545164214375/837009034435362876/unknown.png)

I understand that fans are made because this just derailed everybody all at once but this is merely a matter of the Thomas brothers getting the franchise on or shortly after May 27th or something like 2023.They're getting the rights no matter what and no matter how Skulls will or would've turned out Fox should've lost the franchise long ago since if it's going to give far more a shit about Alien, it (Predator) should at the very least be in the hands of its creators than a company who considers it an afterthought. And frankly this should be a good thing since it will be in theory easier to get shit out since the Thomas brothers aren't likely to have the same mandates or be as incompetent as Fox.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2021, 05:45:49 PM
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Apr 28, 2021, 04:55:22 PM
Some people from Illfonic Forums are saying alot of dumb shit while sharing info on Reddit
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824292545164214375/837008205174407218/unknown.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824292545164214375/837009034435362876/unknown.png)

Yeah, a lot of that just comes from anger at the moment, I think. :/

Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Apr 28, 2021, 05:12:50 PM
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Apr 28, 2021, 04:55:22 PM
Some people from Illfonic Forums are saying alot of dumb shit while sharing info on Reddit
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824292545164214375/837008205174407218/unknown.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/824292545164214375/837009034435362876/unknown.png)

I understand that fans are made because this just derailed everybody all at once but this is merely a matter of the Thomas brothers getting the franchise on or shortly after May 27th or something like 2023.They're getting the rights no matter what and no matter how Skulls will or would've turned out Fox should've lost the franchise long ago since if it's going to give far more a shit about Alien, it (Predator) should at the very least be in the hands of its creators than a company who considers it an afterthought. And frankly this should be a good thing since it will be in theory easier to get shit out since the Thomas brothers aren't likely to have the same mandates or be as incompetent as Fox.

^ This might be a bit harsh here imo. I think it's fair to say with the Netflix AvP Animated Show, The Predator and Skulls (apparently in development prior to the acquisition), at least in the last five to six years, Fox was not treating Predator as an afterthought. And hiring Dan Trachtenberg and Shane Black, these are not slouch directors at the time either. Fast-forward to Disney's acquisition, and their sister companies greenlit Skulls and the first Predator ongoing comic series in the history of the franchise.

Regarding to the Thomas Brothers handling the franchise better, who knows. I've seen enough of Ridley's prequels, Lucas' prequels and Cameron's return to Terminator to know there is no guarantee of a return to a high level of quality or competence.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: TC on Apr 29, 2021, 03:40:15 PM
John August and Craig Mazin (two professional Hollywood screenwriters) have some commentary about the Predator case in their audio podcast:

https://scriptnotes.libsyn.com/498-small-plates

Skip ahead to 00:37:00

or if you are at all interested in screenwriting, listen to the whole darn thing! In fact, subscribe! (This is the only podcast that I eagerly anticipate every week.)

Or if you want all the gory legal details about the relevant US copyright law:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/203

TC
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Apr 29, 2021, 05:28:24 PM
Disney is about to go through some stuff that isn't just with Predator.

https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/financial-reporting/article/86212-writers-orgs-form-disneymustpay-joint-task-force.html


I think this is mostly just the writers having their right to be paid. And perhaps that's all the Thomas Brothers are seeking in the end. "Look, you can keep the rights but it's going to COST you." And why not go that route? Would be easier than having to go around and negotiate the rights again somewhere else. That could take a few years.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Apr 29, 2021, 08:56:37 PM
That's literally the point of the provision - to renegotiate the rights after the market value is proven.

For a book, it can be a tool for a writer to get their work away from a publisher they don't like and go elsewhere. In the case of a movie though, the only rights it gives them is that of the script they wrote - nothing else.

If they took the rights elsewhere, it would just be then taking their script to a new studio to get it adapted anew. If that studio wanted all the other parts, they'd still need to get them off Disney.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 29, 2021, 09:15:55 PM
Quote from: Anti-Woke on Apr 28, 2021, 01:06:55 PM
I guess you didn't learn anything from Terminator: Dark Turd.  Having a lead female in a movie is perfectly okay, look at the alien movies, but when you make it about gender norms and all that, it's a movie headed for the toilet. Watchmen series was woke as hell and was dogshit. Terminator: Dark Fate was woke as hell, it bombed. Just make a normal ass predator movie that's scary and not about gender norms. Just f**king fight the predator and shut the f**k up.

Hahaha holy shit. :D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SM on Apr 29, 2021, 09:16:50 PM
Quote from: Stitch on Apr 28, 2021, 09:04:02 AM
Quote from: Anti-Woke on Apr 27, 2021, 06:56:18 PM
I really hope Dan Trachtenberg's movie gets canned. It looks like it has the works of work propaganda already. Can we please just have a normal movie that isn't about gender norms and all that bullshit. I want a return to the likes of the original movie or at least predator 2. Please, no SJW crap.
Quote from: Anti-Woke on Apr 27, 2021, 07:05:43 PM
Please put an injunction on it. I can already tell Disney is about to make a woke ass predator. Give it back to the original owners and let them revive it.

Name checks out



:laugh:
Give them points for putting their dipshitted bigotry right on front street.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: [cancerblack] on Apr 29, 2021, 09:34:13 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 28, 2021, 05:45:49 PM
the Netflix AvP Animated Show

Jeez, thanks for reminding me.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 29, 2021, 11:28:22 PM
I must admit I almost cried laughing (for real) when reading dark turd.

Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Yautja888 on Apr 30, 2021, 08:20:27 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 25, 2021, 07:02:25 PM
Quote from: Yautja888 on Apr 25, 2021, 06:48:37 PM
Thomas brothers WW2 battle of the Bulge pitch

What is it and why I've never heard about it before ? I'd love Predator movie set in WWI/II

They mentioned it in 2011 If I remember correctly.
They didn't tell much about it, just Americans and Germans soldiers having an uneasy
alliance against a predator in order to survive during the Battle of the Bulge, a german
counteroffensive in 44.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 30, 2021, 08:37:59 PM
Heard about it a while back and that is one great f**king idea !
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on May 05, 2021, 03:53:42 PM
I absolutely love the idea of a Predator on a battlefield. Just weaving through gunfire, doing parkour over and around tanks, in and out of sight as he runs off with kills. Though I think we are a bit overdo on a film set in the past like the current production, I'd love to see a war time Predator film.

Personally speaking I'd be all in for something kind of like the opening to Onimusha:Warlords where we see a massive clash with a Predator just in the middle taking on everyone. I think they even made something like 2 or 3 samurai Predators anyways so it wouldn't be unwarranted.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on May 05, 2021, 05:28:38 PM
For me, a Predator versus a Spartan or Spartans is where it's at.

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/oVW4ztszdtmM0/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on May 05, 2021, 06:22:33 PM
(https://i.redd.it/65wfm8si3le21.jpg)

I'd prefer this Spartan.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on May 05, 2021, 06:38:55 PM
He actually stands a chance.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on May 09, 2021, 10:28:15 AM
But to be fair we did already get to see the Phalanx go up against the Alien though.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on May 09, 2021, 03:21:35 PM
Quote from: Trash Queen on May 09, 2021, 10:28:15 AM
But to be fair we did already get to see the Phalanx go up against the Alien though.

Yeah, true, but I've been dreaming of this long before Phalanx.  8)

Also, I don't really think that premise can work as an Alien film honestly. Novel, comic, anime even? Sure. But the whole medieval planet devised to make the Alien timeline work would just make eyes roll I think as a feature film, as well as turn off its core audience. But would a Predator hunting in 480 BC Greece in a live action feature film work to me? Definitely!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on May 09, 2021, 03:54:16 PM
Personally I think the thing that the whole premise gets by on, that being the leaves, does not come across as applicable to film for me.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on May 09, 2021, 05:43:57 PM
Quote from: Trash Queen on May 09, 2021, 03:54:16 PM
Personally I think the thing that the whole premise gets by on, that being the leaves, does not come across as applicable to film for me.

Leaves?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on May 09, 2021, 05:48:24 PM
Spoiler
The acid resistant leaves, might work fine in one medium, but not necessarily film.
[close]
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on May 09, 2021, 07:31:42 PM
I love Phalanx but that part feels a bit too convenient for my taste
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on May 09, 2021, 08:54:50 PM
Yeah exactly.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Jacku on May 15, 2021, 12:38:29 PM
Quote from: Kradan on May 09, 2021, 07:31:42 PM
I love Phalanx but that part feels a bit too convenient for my taste

Coincidentally I just finished the book yesterday. I feel the leaves are the key in the book.

Spoiler
Like they have to be physically processed into a usable protection and poison that doesn't even work instantly so that adds a lot to the tension.

I imagine on film seeing this army of people covered in a faint white maybe dried layer of the goop that will only protect they from a splash or two of acid blood and even then it will leave small burns, would be a wonderful and fresh thing in an Aliens film. Because even with it the Aliens still slaughter, it just gives the humans an edge.
[close]
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: 426Buddy on May 15, 2021, 04:00:57 PM
Yeah I loved everything about Phalanx, great book.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on May 16, 2021, 06:02:20 PM
Quote from: Jacku on May 15, 2021, 12:38:29 PM
Quote from: Kradan on May 09, 2021, 07:31:42 PM
I love Phalanx but that part feels a bit too convenient for my taste

Coincidentally I just finished the book yesterday. I feel the leaves are the key in the book.

Spoiler
Like they have to be physically processed into a usable protection and poison that doesn't even work instantly so that adds a lot to the tension.

I imagine on film seeing this army of people covered in a faint white maybe dried layer of the goop that will only protect they from a splash or two of acid blood and even then it will leave small burns, would be a wonderful and fresh thing in an Aliens film. Because even with it the Aliens still slaughter, it just gives the humans an edge.
[close]

Oh, I'm not arguing that author made everything he could so leaves wouldn't take from the tension.

Spoiler
I still think it's a bit much of a coincidence they found special plant that can neutralize Aliens' acid blood on the SAME PLANET that was currently over-taken by Aliens
[close]
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on May 18, 2021, 02:57:22 AM
10 more days...  :-[
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on May 18, 2021, 12:53:07 PM
or...

10 more days...  :D

* I will forever be an optimist!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on May 25, 2021, 02:58:51 AM
New dates & developments in the legal battle over Predator
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/05/25/new-dates-developments-in-the-legal-battle-over-predator/
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on May 25, 2021, 03:04:10 AM
June 3?! That is my birthday!! ouch.. :'(
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on May 25, 2021, 03:07:11 AM
Maybe that's a good sign, Jonesy. You'll be our good luck charm!  :)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on May 25, 2021, 03:14:19 AM
Ayy thanks! :) but still lol

(https://s3.gifyu.com/images/32cc2a3c9b9ee9a5a4dc5424fd1ee3ddddb0e2ab_hq.gif)

:D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on May 25, 2021, 03:19:23 AM
 :laugh:
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nathan Cryz on May 28, 2021, 11:52:50 PM
Predator isn't a child content
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Jedi from Earth on May 29, 2021, 05:26:44 PM
Please, please, please. The Predator franchise should not be run by Disney. Ever.  >:(
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on May 30, 2021, 12:27:10 AM
It isn't. It's run by Fox.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on May 30, 2021, 12:40:37 AM
Just as Star Wars is run by Lucasfilm, I guess.
                                                                           
    💭
🤔

Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on May 30, 2021, 02:23:36 AM
Quote from: SiL on May 30, 2021, 12:27:10 AM
It isn't. It's run by Fox.

Well we're not supposed to call it "Fox" anymore but rather "20th Century Studios"... ;)  but if you remember Disney sent over Alan Horn and Alan Bergman to oversee Emma Watts (when she was still in charge) to review and cut half of her 20th Century Studios projects in development, so in my eyes the buck doesn't quite stop at the 20th Century Studios' gate... but rather Disney's top brass.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on May 30, 2021, 03:38:32 AM
What you've described is not the same as Disney running the Predator franchise. Obviously the parent company will oversee production slates; that doesn't mean the people responsible for bringing you Frozen 2 are planning the next Predator outing.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: DarthBane on May 31, 2021, 08:34:33 PM
What does this mean for my Marvel Predator Omni? My alien omnis will look lonely on the shelf without it!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 01, 2021, 02:00:13 AM
I believe it can be legally released regardless how the judgment pans out, as long as it's pre-existing work.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 02, 2021, 03:43:25 PM
Court delays countdown again to Predator's Motion Hearing
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/06/02/court-delays-countdown-again-to-predators-motion-hearing/
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 02, 2021, 04:18:59 PM
We Predator fans seem to get our bandages pulled off slowly and painfully...!  :P
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Jun 02, 2021, 04:23:30 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 02, 2021, 04:18:59 PM
We Predator fans seem to get our bandages pulled off slowly and painfully...!  :P

This stuff is stressing me the heck out. And now I'm even more stressed because filming is going to start and then suddenly the rug could be pulled out from under them and us.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 02, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
Yeah, I hear that. I'm just riding on the hope that if Disney/20th Century Studios lawyers felt that their odds of coming out on top of this copyright termination date dispute were bad, they would have advised the studio to wait it out and not cast/go into pre-production in Alberta. But the drawing of this out is definitely not enjoyable. It's the not knowing which is most stressful to me. :-\
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jun 02, 2021, 04:46:28 PM
It goes on and on and on...
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Nukiemorph on Jun 02, 2021, 05:49:38 PM
That really sucks for the cast and crew.

I like this premise a lot, so I hope this movie happens.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: TheTruthWillHurtYourButt on Jun 02, 2021, 08:16:36 PM
This is Disney playing legal games. No doubt they bribed the court to delay the proceedings and will continue to do stuff like this until the Thomas Brothers run out of money or die. The Rat will not be stopped.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Jun 02, 2021, 09:06:06 PM
Quote from: Nukiemorph on Jun 02, 2021, 05:49:38 PM
That really sucks for the cast and crew.

I like this premise a lot, so I hope this movie happens.

Me too.


Is it really Disney delaying and playing games, because all I read in the article is that the court's had a scheduling issue. I'm not sure Disney is playing any games. I'm betting they want this to be resolved as quickly as possible.


Hm. I was replying to another comment and I suppose it was deleted because it has me responding to you again, Nukiemorph. So, ignore that second part, unless you yourself have thoughts on it.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 03, 2021, 01:12:58 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Jun 02, 2021, 09:06:06 PM
Quote from: Nukiemorph on Jun 02, 2021, 05:49:38 PM
That really sucks for the cast and crew.

I like this premise a lot, so I hope this movie happens.

Me too.


Is it really Disney delaying and playing games, because all I read in the article is that the court's had a scheduling issue. I'm not sure Disney is playing any games. I'm betting they want this to be resolved as quickly as possible.


Hm. I was replying to another comment and I suppose it was deleted because it has me responding to you again, Nukiemorph. So, ignore that second part, unless you yourself have thoughts on it.

So you don't subscribe to the theory that Disney bribed the court to delay the proceedings? ;D

Removed from all that, in all seriousness though, I do personally believe that being in the process of filming gives 20th Century Studios a definite extra edge here, soley in regards to the preliminary injunction and no looming airtight precedent. Because imagine the Judge putting an injunction on Skulls stopping production and sending everyone packing, costing the studio millions of dollars. Then the trial occurs and ten months later the ruling goes in favor of the studio confirming they do have the rights until January 2023. Sorry about that. The Judge can't magically recreate the time lost, the jobs lost and reimburse the money spent. So I believe all this will be certainly argued in front of the Judge, an aspect already somewhat stressed in their legal filing.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Jun 03, 2021, 01:41:08 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 03, 2021, 01:12:58 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Jun 02, 2021, 09:06:06 PM
Quote from: Nukiemorph on Jun 02, 2021, 05:49:38 PM
That really sucks for the cast and crew.

I like this premise a lot, so I hope this movie happens.

Me too.


Is it really Disney delaying and playing games, because all I read in the article is that the court's had a scheduling issue. I'm not sure Disney is playing any games. I'm betting they want this to be resolved as quickly as possible.


Hm. I was replying to another comment and I suppose it was deleted because it has me responding to you again, Nukiemorph. So, ignore that second part, unless you yourself have thoughts on it.

So you don't subscribe to the theory that Disney bribed the court to delay the proceedings? ;D

Removed from all that, in all seriousness though, I do personally believe that being in the process of filming gives 20th Century Studios a definite extra edge here, soley in regards to the preliminary injunction and no looming airtight precedent. Because imagine the Judge putting an injunction on Skulls stopping production and sending everyone packing, costing the studio millions of dollars. Then the trial occurs and ten months later the ruling goes in favor of the studio confirming they do have the rights until January 2023. Sorry about that. The Judge can't magically recreate the time lost, the jobs lost and reimburse the money spent. So I believe all this will be certainly argued in front of the Judge, an aspect already somewhat stressed in their legal filing.

So are you now more of the mindset that this judge doesn't pass an injunction and production continues forward no matter the ruling later?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 03, 2021, 02:20:15 PM
Total speculation, but yeah, I'm definitely personally in the mindset there won't be a preliminary injunction against Skulls.

The ruling though is an entirely different matter. But by time a ruling will come down, the filming of Skulls will have long since been completed, maybe even released (by the way these cases can sometimes get drawn out.) But if the Thomas Brothers win, I would imagine license compensation from 20th Century Studios for Skulls will certainly have to go the brother's way retroactively.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Xiggz456 on Jun 03, 2021, 02:28:29 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 03, 2021, 01:12:58 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Jun 02, 2021, 09:06:06 PM
Quote from: Nukiemorph on Jun 02, 2021, 05:49:38 PM
That really sucks for the cast and crew.

I like this premise a lot, so I hope this movie happens.

Me too.


Is it really Disney delaying and playing games, because all I read in the article is that the court's had a scheduling issue. I'm not sure Disney is playing any games. I'm betting they want this to be resolved as quickly as possible.


Hm. I was replying to another comment and I suppose it was deleted because it has me responding to you again, Nukiemorph. So, ignore that second part, unless you yourself have thoughts on it.

So you don't subscribe to the theory that Disney bribed the court to delay the proceedings? ;D

Removed from all that, in all seriousness though, I do personally believe that being in the process of filming gives 20th Century Studios a definite extra edge here, soley in regards to the preliminary injunction and no looming airtight precedent. Because imagine the Judge putting an injunction on Skulls stopping production and sending everyone packing, costing the studio millions of dollars. Then the trial occurs and ten months later the ruling goes in favor of the studio confirming they do have the rights until January 2023. Sorry about that. The Judge can't magically recreate the time lost, the jobs lost and reimburse the money spent. So I believe all this will be certainly argued in front of the Judge, an aspect already somewhat stressed in their legal filing.

This pretty much echoes my thoughts as well.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Enjoy on Jun 03, 2021, 06:51:50 PM
Bay Area Court kills jobs for native american actors in first of its kind film....doubt it.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 08, 2021, 10:13:36 PM
Does anyone know if they delayed filming because of the lawsuit? Changing the June7th filming date til after the results of the courtcase.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 08, 2021, 10:35:03 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 03, 2021, 01:12:58 PMBecause imagine the Judge putting an injunction on Skulls stopping production and sending everyone packing, costing the studio millions of dollars. Then the trial occurs and ten months later the ruling goes in favor of the studio confirming they do have the rights until January 2023. Sorry about that. The Judge can't magically recreate the time lost, the jobs lost and reimburse the money spent. So I believe all this will be certainly argued in front of the Judge, an aspect already somewhat stressed in their legal filing.
Why does the judge need to care about recreating time lost? Why's that their responsibility in the least?

Their responsibility is to make a judgment about the case on legal grounds. Millions of dollars lost and people sent packing is the studio's fault and problem, and would be a consequence of them not tying up loose ends in a timely manner.

Setting a precedent of basically letting studios hold people's jobs hostage to get what you want would have awful repurcussions and isn't something we should be hoping for :-\

If the injunction isn't passed I hope it's based on the legal facts of the case, not an emotional plea of the studio.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 09, 2021, 12:52:34 PM
Quote from: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 08, 2021, 10:13:36 PM
Does anyone know if they delayed filming because of the lawsuit? Changing the June7th filming date til after the results of the courtcase.

I don't think we have a definitive answer on that, but personally I don't believe filming was delayed. If they were that afraid, why fly the cast out there rather than push it off a few more weeks? Plus Kyle Strauts announcing hours before production starting "I could not be more excited for this next adventure", kind of felt like a confirmation (at least to me) that things were proceeding as plan. :)

Quote from: SiL on Jun 08, 2021, 10:35:03 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 03, 2021, 01:12:58 PMBecause imagine the Judge putting an injunction on Skulls stopping production and sending everyone packing, costing the studio millions of dollars. Then the trial occurs and ten months later the ruling goes in favor of the studio confirming they do have the rights until January 2023. Sorry about that. The Judge can't magically recreate the time lost, the jobs lost and reimburse the money spent. So I believe all this will be certainly argued in front of the Judge, an aspect already somewhat stressed in their legal filing.
Why does the judge need to care about recreating time lost? Why's that their responsibility in the least?

Their responsibility is to make a judgment about the case on legal grounds. Millions of dollars lost and people sent packing is the studio's fault and problem, and would be a consequence of them not tying up loose ends in a timely manner.

Setting a precedent of basically letting studios hold people's jobs hostage to get what you want would have awful repurcussions and isn't something we should be hoping for :-\

If the injunction isn't passed I hope it's based on the legal facts of the case, not an emotional plea of the studio.

You're thinking the ruling. A ruling would be solely based on the legal facts of the case. The ruling comes after the trial, after all the facts of the case are argued.

We're talking a preliminary injunction which is pre-trial. Before both sides argue their case. Before all facts are heard. Before one side is ruled in the right. So in addition to the strength of the case, outside factors have to come into play with a preliminary injunction, ramifications to both sides if the Judge orders one way or another, is the way I understand it.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 09, 2021, 08:36:39 PM
It's still not the judge's concern to be able to make up time or money lost, though. They do have to consider the damages caused by issuing an injunction, but they also need to weigh it up against the likelihood that the applicant will succeed or fail their case.

The question comes down to is it going to be weighed on the fact the nearest claim date was ostensibly in error and therefore wouldn't pass, or the '23 end date is valid and will pass? Would the latter even justify issuing an injunction? Time will tell.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 09, 2021, 09:04:04 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jun 09, 2021, 08:36:39 PM
It's still not the judge's concern to be able to make up time or money lost, though. They do have to consider the damages caused by issuing an injunction, but they also need to weigh it up against the likelihood that the applicant will succeed or fail their case.

Err, this is exactly what I just replied with.

And I never said it was the judge's concern to make up time lost, but they have to consider the damages of doing so, i.e. factor those losses during a preliminary injunction decision.

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 03, 2021, 01:12:58 PM
The Judge can't magically recreate the time lost, the jobs lost and reimburse the money spent. So I believe all this will be certainly argued in front of the Judge, an aspect already somewhat stressed in their legal filing.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 09, 2021, 09:20:59 PM
"The judge can't magically recreate the time lost" reads like you're saying it's the judge's concern.

EDIT

For clarity, I get you now.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 10, 2021, 07:38:28 PM
The legal battle for Predator takes an interesting turn
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/06/10/the-legal-battle-for-predator-takes-an-interesting-turn/
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: goose_3387 on Jun 10, 2021, 08:29:38 PM
So Skulls continues to potentially film the whole movie that may never get a release depending on the delayed verdict?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 10, 2021, 08:55:55 PM
So, I don't want to speak too soon but could this be like the Friday the 13th lawsuit in limbo back n forth no resolve for years and years.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Lost_Hunter on Jun 10, 2021, 09:01:46 PM
You can't see the eyes of the demon, until im come callin
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: acrediblesource on Jun 10, 2021, 09:04:49 PM
Interesting Turn? More like a statement about legal legislation and their prioritizations per locale. I'm not entirely impressed with this. Sounds like its more of a State issue than a legal one.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 10, 2021, 11:33:55 PM
Quote from: goose_3387 on Jun 10, 2021, 08:29:38 PM
So Skulls continues to potentially film the whole movie that may never get a release depending on the delayed verdict?

I can't even imagine working under those conditions, knowing any time the proverbial shoe can drop. So stressful....


Quote from: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 10, 2021, 08:55:55 PM
So, I don't want to speak too soon but could this be like the Friday the 13th lawsuit in limbo back n forth no resolve for years and years.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to get that vibe too, and it just makes me ill. :'(


Quote from: acrediblesource on Jun 10, 2021, 09:04:49 PM
Interesting Turn? More like a statement about legal legislation and their prioritizations per locale. I'm not entirely impressed with this. Sounds like its more of a State issue than a legal one.

I guess things we find interesting is relative to us as individuals, but I don't believe reporting on any of this legal craziness is intended to impress you, to be honest. Rather just to inform.  :)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 10, 2021, 11:59:10 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 10, 2021, 11:33:55 PM
I can't even imagine working under those conditions, knowing any time the proverbial shoe can drop. So stressful....
Post-COVID that's every set at the moment :(
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Proteus on Jun 11, 2021, 12:01:08 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 10, 2021, 11:33:55 PM
Quote from: goose_3387 on Jun 10, 2021, 08:29:38 PM
So Skulls continues to potentially film the whole movie that may never get a release depending on the delayed verdict?

I can't even imagine working under those conditions, knowing any time the proverbial shoe can drop. So stressful....


Quote from: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 10, 2021, 08:55:55 PM
So, I don't want to speak too soon but could this be like the Friday the 13th lawsuit in limbo back n forth no resolve for years and years.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to get that vibe too, and it just makes me ill. :'(


Quote from: acrediblesource on Jun 10, 2021, 09:04:49 PM
Interesting Turn? More like a statement about legal legislation and their prioritizations per locale. I'm not entirely impressed with this. Sounds like its more of a State issue than a legal one.

I guess things we find interesting is relative to us as individuals, but I don't believe reporting on any of this legal craziness is intended to impress you, to be honest. Rather just to inform.  :)

The important matter here would be whether or not content is allowed to be made even if this does drag on for years. Well, at least until 2023. This is such a frustrating mess because we don't have any definitives here, only speculations. At least with F13 you KNOW content can't be made, at least under the Jason Voorhees name. Here it's a "will they/won't they" be allowed to keep making Predator content during this lawsuit. Today we could have known, but it just seems like this judge didn't want to handle something of this nature. So possibly on to someone else, and now we're left wondering, if it does, how THEY may proceed in determining an injunction. The legal system can sometimes move slow, even when something requires immediate resolve. As someone mentioned, we may very well have SKULLS complete filming before we get an answer. And then it could be "well, the film won't see the light of day now" or "man, that was close, but here's the release date!"
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 11, 2021, 12:05:41 AM
Until or unless an injunction is passed, the status quo is for Twentieth Century Studios to keep exploiting the property.

If the injunction is passed, we have an answer - no content until the matter is settled. If it's not passed, we pretty much also have an answer - keep on trucking until the matter is settled. TCS has already shown they're gonna keep trucking along until they're legally forced to stop.

F13 was a messier case of whether the provision was even allowed to be invoked. The issue here seems a bit clearer-cut -- did they make an error on their earliest filing or not. If they did, TCS and Disney have until 2023 to renegotiate.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Jun 11, 2021, 12:08:31 AM
If Skulls does complete I wouldn't be surprised if it slipped out like the Roger Corman Fantastic Four and Predator has a mysterious 5th entry floating around burnt to a disk you can only find in some back area of an anime convention.

Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 11, 2021, 12:18:40 AM
I mean realistically the worst case scenario is the Brothers get the rights and TCS renegotiates for those rights and life moves the f**k on.

Ironically, having a film tied up in legal limbo gives the Brothers more bargaining power than they would have otherwise.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: RidgeTop on Jun 11, 2021, 02:38:31 AM
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/predator-rights-fight-1234966100/amp/

THR reporting this as an early advantage for Disney. Apparently the Judge is set to side with Disney in regards to where this should be filed.

IMO lawyers for the Bros. already stumbling and filing in the wrong district with silly justification.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 11, 2021, 10:47:49 AM
Is it silly?

Looks like a lawyer exploring avenues to give their client the best opportunities.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: skhellter on Jun 12, 2021, 11:29:10 AM
Sad that Disney just doesn't seem willing to make a deal with the Thomas
without dragging them through lengthy painful bureaucracy.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 12, 2021, 11:45:25 AM
Quote from: skhellter on Jun 12, 2021, 11:29:10 AM
Sad that Disney just doesn't seem willing to make a deal with the Thomas
without dragging them through lengthy painful bureaucracy.

This is to the root of my fear for Predator and AvP the inevitable day the Thomas Brothers do get the US Copyright back, skhellter. It's easy to take things personally, especially after Fox/Disney waiting four years to reject the Thomas Bros' *termination letter for errors. Sometimes the animus is so bad, the question becomes how is anyone going to work together after all this? Because reclaiming just the Hunters license only in the US means they will have to work together for "Predator" to continue.  :-[

* corrected word edit
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 12, 2021, 12:37:45 PM
Disney/TCS doesn't really have any option but to renegotiate if they want to exploit the property for perpetuity, since they don't seem to argue against the 2023 date, so it does seem a bit weird they aren't just trying to renegotiate now :-\

The Brothers have nothing to gain by not renegotiating, though, so it's not like a deal is inconceivable either.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 12, 2021, 12:58:24 PM
It seems they really want that one more Predator film in the catalog free of licensing royalties.

If Disney gets their way, I hope Skulls is a big success. Because if it fails, I can see Disney being in no rush to strike a deal / fine with letting the property languish in perpetuity.

Man, Alien fans hungry for new content don't know the apparent bullet they dodged...
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Jun 12, 2021, 01:17:15 PM
Don't they have a date setup for settling? I could've sworn they did and the recent thing was just getting the other two dates dropped.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 12, 2021, 01:40:57 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 12, 2021, 12:58:24 PM
It seems they really want that one more Predator film in the catalog free of licensing royalties.
It's not even free of licensing royalties, it's just at whatever rate was agreed on 35 years ago - which I'm guessing wasn't great, hence the Brothers' actions.

EDIT

I say this assuming they didn't sign something giving them royalties for just a few years, as you'd expect that to have been mentioned in the court filings.

QuoteMan, Alien fans hungry for new content don't know the apparent bullet they dodged...
Which bullet? Alien was too early to be eligible for this provision. Or do you mean something else?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 12, 2021, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jun 12, 2021, 01:40:57 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 12, 2021, 12:58:24 PM
It seems they really want that one more Predator film in the catalog free of licensing royalties.
It's not even free of licensing royalties, it's just at whatever rate was agreed on 35 years ago - which I'm guessing wasn't great, hence the Brothers' actions.

QuoteMan, Alien fans hungry for new content don't know the apparent bullet they dodged...
Which bullet? Alien was too early to be eligible for this provision. Or do you mean something else?

I believe you're thinking residual payments (if negotiated), where licensing fees tend to be a bigger chunk of the pie and paid out even if it doesn't make a profit.

Quote from: SiL on Jun 12, 2021, 01:40:57 PM
QuoteMan, Alien fans hungry for new content don't know the apparent bullet they dodged...
Which bullet? Alien was too early to be eligible for this provision. Or do you mean something else?

Yep! Learning that this relatively new law was for transfered copyrights 1978-present, and O'Bannon apparently sold Alien prior to that.


Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Jun 12, 2021, 01:17:15 PM
Don't they have a date setup for settling? I could've sworn they did and the recent thing was just getting the other two dates dropped.

Do you mean the required meeting of both parties that California law requires prior to the Case Management Conference? If so yes, it's designed as a forum to hopefully work out their differences independently of the Court. It definitely gives them an opportunity to settle, if they can and are willing to come to an agreement. That's the million dollar question S.I.!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 12, 2021, 09:06:54 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 12, 2021, 02:09:35 PM
I believe you're thinking residual payments (if negotiated), where licensing fees tend to be a bigger chunk of the pie and paid out even if it doesn't make a profit.
I'm pretty sure they're still paid for derivative works (I mean, they're credited at least) but true, it would be residuals prior to this mess getting sorted.

QuoteYep! Learning that this relatively new law was for transfered copyrights 1978-present, and O'Bannon apparently sold Alien prior to that.
True, although I imagine if his estate had been able to use this provision Fox might've been much quicker sorting it out ;D
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: bb-15 on Jun 15, 2021, 12:07:10 AM
Quote from: Anti-Woke on Apr 28, 2021, 01:06:55 PM
I guess you didn't learn anything from Terminator: Dark Turd.  Having a lead female in a movie is perfectly okay, look at the alien movies, but when you make it about gender norms and all that, it's a movie headed for the toilet. Watchmen series was woke as hell and was dogshit. Terminator: Dark Fate was woke as hell, it bombed. Just make a normal ass predator movie that's scary and not about gender norms. Just f**king fight the predator and shut the f**k up.

I wanted to post about the Watchmen TV series on AVP Galaxy & this is what I could find.
I enjoyed the series. It is pushy with its message but I got used to it. Also, such a topic (put in a blunt way) is not new to science fiction whether from Deep Space 9 all the way back to Star Trek TOS, where the sci-fi genre can have a clear message of social justice.

While Terminator: Dark Fate bombed in terms of box office, the Watchmen TV series was a ratings success and it received 4 Primetime Emmy Awards and 7 Primetime Creative Arts Emmy Awards. So, I don't agree that the Watchmen TV series was "dogshit" in terms of the skill in how it was put together & how it connected with the original Watchmen material.

As for the original topic, we are talking about Disney here. With action/adventure, Disney cares about Marvel & Star Wars because that's where the most money is.
With the possible Predator movie, I would appreciate if anything new Predator or Alien related comes out of Disney. That would be better than nothing imo.

;)   
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 16, 2021, 04:17:52 PM
Predator legal battle is transferred to Los Angeles
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/06/16/predator-legal-battle-is-transferred-to-los-angeles/
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Inverse Effect on Jun 16, 2021, 07:20:17 PM
Sigh...
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Leleu on Jun 16, 2021, 07:53:02 PM
I really hope there will be a theatrical release. Predator films aren't made to be streamed !
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 16, 2021, 08:26:06 PM
Hmm curious turn of development, If I had it my way I'd set the condition where any upcoming Predator movies are distilled with quality control, upholding them to a standard and consistency in tune with the original, AND that the creators The Thomas Brothers get their share of royalties properly compensated. Perhaps that's a tad niave of me.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 16, 2021, 08:47:54 PM
Quote from: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 16, 2021, 08:26:06 PM
Hmm curious turn of development, If I had it my way I'd set the condition where any upcoming Predator movies are distilled with quality control, upholding them to a standard and consistency in tune with the original, AND that the creators The Thomas Brothers get their share of royalties properly compensated. Perhaps that's a tad niave of me.

It's certainly at least nice to think about!  :)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 16, 2021, 09:40:20 PM
It's naive in that it's not like people have been trying to make worse movies.

How would you even start creating criteria to judge the quality standards against the original film? By whose objective metrics?

Trying to distill quality into a formula is what gives you interchangeable Marvel movies. I'm sure people would appreciate some better variety.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jun 17, 2021, 09:22:20 AM
Exactly this.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 17, 2021, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jun 16, 2021, 09:40:20 PM
It's naive in that it's not like people have been trying to make worse movies.

How would you even start creating criteria to judge the quality standards against the original film? By whose objective metrics?

Trying to distill quality into a formula is what gives you interchangeable Marvel movies. I'm sure people would appreciate some better variety.

I'd say it is not niave to some degree, because when the Thomas Brothers regain control again of the US Copyright to Hunters/Predator, they'll be able to control what or any projects they allow a license to, and there will be standards defined by the brothers or whomever they put in charge of the likely small *properties company they form to manage it.

Get the right standards in place, and you could never see a film where Predators are chasing autism or Alien vs Predator films that are PG-13, or disjointed script that is not ready for primetime but is being greenlit anyway because the studio needs to meet its schedule. This all can be rejected.

I think the niave part would be to think all the film or projects will be great from that point on. That's a beautiful dream, but just a dream. But can the floor be raised to some degree? Absolutely.

This sends my whole mind to poor Dr. Seuss (not his real name). I remember reading he didn't want cheap movies made of his books, so he kept rejecting offers. He greenlit the wonderful cartoon film "How the Grinch Stole Christmas", some other things, but not much else. But once he died, his estate started selling rights like crazy resulting in a ton of sh*tty Dr. Seuss movies. His kids are rich now though.

*edit - spelling
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 17, 2021, 11:35:58 AM
That's more or less what I was saying. It's not naive to assume they could impose limits, but it is a little naive to assume you can actually impose meaningful controls that would keep things "in tune" with the quality of the original.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 17, 2021, 03:03:34 PM
@ SiL It is admittedly not guaranteed any oversight would mean the films to come after would be any better, George Lucas had control over his Prequel Trilogy and he got backlash from fans, he sold Star wars to Disney, they went about making fan service and they got backlash, Ridley Scott director of the original Alien has over seen Prometheus and Covenant and they've been divisive to the fanbase.

If the Thomas Brother had oversight and gave approval on any Predator movie produced it may meet their standards but perhaps fall short of our expectations, not certain if bringing John McTiernan to consult would help, he's not really in the industry anymore and blacklisted for a couple of scandal's as it pertains to wiretapping his ex wife.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 17, 2021, 03:51:25 PM
It's probably unfair to view this so narrowly, but it's interesting when George Lucas, Ridley Scott and George Miller come to mind in regards to returning to classic franchises, only Miller has been able to succeed in not only meeting the level of his previous work, but even surpassing it.

Granted, the Thomas Brothers are only writers, not directors, but it would be interesting if they took a stab at writing a new Predator 3, how would they fair, and could they replicate the same quality as the first (and slowly the second) has been praised with.

We know the brothers already had a Predator 3 story idea in mind and a half-hearted offer to direct, a story that would seemingly revolve around the flintlock pistol. So my dream is that first draft was written years ago and is still begging to be made.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 18, 2021, 08:52:06 AM
@ Voodoo Magic

Fair enough,
while we are getting a Predator movie set in the past its a different story the upcoming skulls, its would be great to get a movie portrayal of the Raphael Adolini 1715 story, provided its competently done and not too fen service-ish. Its likely a skepticism of the mainstream appeal of predator and big budgets concerning period pieces why its something 20th century fox\ "Now 20th Century Studios" consider risky. Hopefully if they sees there's a demand it might happen.

I just thought of something that could be ridiculous and dumb, what if the Predator we get in Skulls survives his hunt at the end of the film and is Jungle Predator from the original film, Predator's live for hundreds of years but surly they wouldn't.
  :-[
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 18, 2021, 09:01:37 AM
I seriously doubt they'd go that route. It being the elder from P2 could work though.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 18, 2021, 12:56:52 PM
Yeah I fantasized too in our Skulls podcast that perhaps Skulls would be a secret prequel to "Predator 2" and the Elder Predator would be featured in the film - this was before we knew it took place in pre-colonization times of course.

That flintlock pistol is a Spanish gun, and it was the Spanish that colonized much of the Comanche region in the 1700s. Of course, Raphael Adolini is an Italian name, but I pondered that perhaps the name could have been used in Spain too - and/or there were other ways to get around that.

It was cool to think about at least!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: LiquidMonster on Jun 18, 2021, 03:43:40 PM
Again, I really think the brothers are simply looking for a good "pay day". Though they were apparently paid for their original script(a one time pay day I presume) I think it's a smart move for them to try to regain their rights to it under the law.

There's no doubt the Predator franchise has made hundreds of millions of dollars coming from the movies and merchandising. So what they were paid back in the 80s for their script is probably peanuts.

In the end, I think this is simply a way for the brothers to "get a pay day" that would make them happy. Disney would keep the franchise and continuing to grow/exploit the I.P.

I'd *really* be surprised if this actually makes it to an actual trial. 99% of the time, both parties to a lawsuit *NEVER* want to go that route and a mutually agreed upon settlement where everyone walks away happy is the way to go.

There's no reason the brothers shouldn't walk away from this without becoming multimillionaires(if they aren't already). Disney could throw them 5 million each(10 million dollar settlement) for example and that would wrap things up.

I still predict this case will get settled, the brothers will get paid a *private* settlement and Disney goes full steam ahead with the Predator I.P.

Guess we'll see soon!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 18, 2021, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: LiquidMonster on Jun 18, 2021, 03:43:40 PM
Again, I really think the brothers are simply looking for a good "pay day". Though they were apparently paid for their original script(a one time pay day I presume) I think it's a smart move for them to try to regain their rights to it under the law.

Based on deals of the time, I assume they've received residual checks for their work on Predator and Predator 2 ever since each film turned a profit.

Quote from: LiquidMonster on Jun 18, 2021, 03:43:40 PM
There's no reason the brothers shouldn't walk away from this without becoming multimillionaires(if they aren't already). Disney could throw them 5 million each(10 million dollar settlement) for example and that would wrap things up.

If you're betting the Thomas Brothers will sell the US copyright again outright to Disney/20th Century Studios (versus license it out), I think a onetime payday of 5 million each would clearly be understating its value. No the deal wouldn't command George Lucas selling Star Wars type of cash, but considering the second sale would be to my understanding permanent, ten million total would certainly shortchange themselves.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: goose_3387 on Jun 18, 2021, 07:12:29 PM
I always wanted to see a true Predator 3 - would be interesting to see how the Brothers planned to expand on what they ended with in P2.

However even with a good script I wouldn't trust the present filmmakers and practical fx companies to execute it properly.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 19, 2021, 11:39:32 AM
When asking Predator 3 is this specifically the  Raphael Adolini flintlock pistol backstory with Pirates? or a new modern set Predator film in a heat wave warzone whether it be middle east or something?

Predators and The Predator have their fans but admittedly have their shortcoming, having the Thomas Brothers pen their Predator 3 might bring some legitimacy to the franchise, though we were saying the same thing about Shane Black.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jun 19, 2021, 03:19:36 PM
The Thomas Brothers alluded to the possibilities of having a Predator film in the past, but never outright 100% confirmed that's where they would go.

Here's a couple interview snippets where Kevin Peter Hall and the Thomas Brothers say the end of Predator 2 set up a third film. "It's a real big switch. And that sets the stage for the possibility of a third film."

(https://i.ibb.co/m5V2rXZ/IMG-20210619-102457.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/mvTQ4Z1/IMG-20210619-105957.jpg)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: OuterSpaceGuy on Jun 23, 2021, 08:22:59 AM

If you want my humble opinion, I can say the Thomas Brothers brothers don't want to win the battle but gain some money from it.

These people can create one or two movies probably, but cannot establish such a big "production-line" of movies, as Disney can. On account of this, they are trying to secure a specific amount as a return for not gaining the rights.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jun 23, 2021, 08:43:12 AM
Winning is getting more money. The usual goal of the provision is to renegotiate a better licensing fee. It would make little sense for them to take the rights and go elsewhere with them.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 09, 2021, 06:06:53 PM
Jury Trial in the Legal Battle over Predator set for April 19th 2022
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/07/09/jury-trial-in-the-legal-battle-over-predator-set-for-april-19th-2022/
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: goose_3387 on Jul 10, 2021, 11:23:13 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 09, 2021, 06:06:53 PM
Jury Trial in the Legal Battle over Predator set for April 19th 2022
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/07/09/jury-trial-in-the-legal-battle-over-predator-set-for-april-19th-2022/

Does this mean that even a 100% completed Skulls movie might never get released?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jul 10, 2021, 12:16:34 PM
A 100% completed film would be rushed out to release if they thought there was a chance they might lose, as they can continue to exploit existing derivative works.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: goose_3387 on Jul 10, 2021, 02:16:39 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jul 10, 2021, 12:16:34 PM
A 100% completed film would be rushed out to release if they thought there was a chance they might lose, as they can continue to exploit existing derivative works.

The film should be fully finished by the end of the year (unless they need to do reshoots). There's a chance we could see it early 2022.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 10, 2021, 03:25:20 PM
With principal photography slated to end August 20th, even a December 2021 release isnt beyond the realms of possibility. I'd doubt they'd slate it for the Holidays though.  :)

And the fact that 20th Century Studios doesn't have Skulls on some theatrical release schedule indicates to me what Toberoff said about Skulls being distributed by Hulu might indeed be its reality. We already knew that when Disney went through Emma Watts' Fox Film slate they reportedly streamlined them to 10 releases per year, half or more going to Hulu or Disney+. So if that means Skulls, it would be that much easier if your post-production schedule is leading to a streaming release to fit within a tighter window.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: El Pistolero on Jul 11, 2021, 02:45:58 PM
Maybe if they loose, they will change the Predator Movie to a Riverghost Movie ad release it anyway. I hope Van Damme is on board this time.

I'm sure Disney will win this trial.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Jul 11, 2021, 07:15:38 PM
They're gonna settle. Disney isn't going to let Predator slip away so come settlement date they'll work out a way to license Predator from them and Disney just starts back up as normal. Skulls gets released, Hunting Grounds dies a merciless death under shovelware, and the comic releases either as a OGN or goes monthly without incident.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 12, 2021, 01:54:35 PM
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Jul 11, 2021, 07:15:38 PM
They're gonna settle. Disney isn't going to let Predator slip away so come settlement date they'll work out a way to license Predator from them and Disney just starts back up as normal. Skulls gets released, Hunting Grounds dies a merciless death under shovelware, and the comic releases either as a OGN or goes monthly without incident.

I don't see any benefit in Disney/20th Century Studios settling. The Thomas Brothers will have to ultimately work with Disney anyway when all is said and done because the Brothers will be reclaiming only the US copyright, not foreign rights, and only to the Hunters script, not 100% all things Predator.

The benefit for Disney/20th Century Studios to not settle is if they win the lawsuit and own Predator fully until 2023, they'll own yet another Predator film in their library outright (Skulls), free and clear, and continue to reap the financial benefits fully for decades, or centuries to come without having to share with the Brothers.

My ultimate fear is when the Brothers do reclaim those Hunters rights back, will Disney/20th Century Studios opt to stop making Predator films. This franchise isn't Star Wars. The profits aren't incredibly lucrative. And when you have to share them, it becomes that much less lucrative. The juice might not be worth the squeeze at that point. Disney may be content with 5 revenue earning Predator films in their 20th Century Studios library plus 2 AvPs and call it a day. That's my fear. :-\
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: BigDaddyJohn on Jul 13, 2021, 07:46:53 PM
Well I hope this won't affect the info we can get about Skulls in the meantime, because for now it's been dry as f**k.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jul 13, 2021, 10:21:35 PM
Hypothetically if the rights return to the Thomas Brothers could that mean there will be no more Aliens vs Predator content for an indefinite time? sort of a situation where Toho couldn't regain rights to use Kong in the 90's so they scrapped their planed remake of King Kong vs Godzilla, had to wait years and years for Legendary picture to negotiate both rights to make Godzilla vs Kong.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jul 13, 2021, 11:20:48 PM
Assuming the Brothers don't renegotiate, yes.

But the most likely outcome is if they get the rights back they just renegotiate a better deal and we all move on with our lives.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 14, 2021, 01:33:54 PM
Unfortunately, nothing will return to 'like it was' in a business sense though, unless the Thomas Brothers sell the rights in its entirety to Disney like George Lucas did (albeit for a heck of a lot less money). There will be another expenditure now, licensing fees paid to the Thomas Brothers if something is profitable or not. And with the cockamamie new sharing dividing line of the Hunters/Predator U.S. rights, a new Predator book from Titan would have to be approved by both license holders versus just one. It's a potential mess for a small franchise that screams "why bother", which is why I just hate thinking about it. :-\
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jul 16, 2021, 01:30:35 AM
Or it's a lot simpler than that and a slightly higher percent of proceeds go to the Brothers and that's about the end of it

I'm refraining from leaping to doomsday scenarios until I see a good reason to. Torpedoing the franchise doesn't benefit the Brothers in the least.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 16, 2021, 02:38:42 PM
Unless the Thomas Brothers do not want project control over their reclaimed license, I think just bumping some slightly higher percent of proceeds as a solution is just a gross oversimplification. And who says the Brothers will settle on a number equating to "slight"?

Also a lawsuit like this can create bad blood on both sides, and when that's your launching pad, all it takes is Disney saying the Thomas Brothers want too much money and control, the Brothers saying Disney is low-balling, and then I can 100% see Disney playing hardball, stop negotiating and just putting the franchise on ice for a few years. No doomsday scenarios here, just being a realist, especially looking at how Disney has handled other situations like icing out X-Men from Marvel pre acquisition, or the Islands of Adventure debacle. There doesn't seem to be a concern over halting content for fans, if the wait-it-out approach brings the desired result.

I remember reading that Fox's explanation why they canceled the series "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" after two seasons while other shows with similar cost & similar ratings survived was because Fox didn't fully own the show. So unless the Thomas Brothers sell Hunter all back to Disney for a one time sum, I think Predator will also be dealing with these type of obstacles.

So with all of this, I rather be prepared for what possibly may come, than not prepared.  :)

(https://y.yarn.co/61191c82-5b10-424b-bd3c-121c560ff1bd_text.gif)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: ace3g on Jul 17, 2021, 01:18:23 AM
I wonder if this will have any barring / set a precedent for the case

'Walking Dead' Lawsuit Settled For $200M Between Frank Darabont, CAA & AMC

https://twitter.com/DrewStruzan/status/1416204836081594371
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 17, 2021, 01:24:26 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 16, 2021, 02:38:42 PM
Unless the Thomas Brothers do not want project control over their reclaimed license, I think just bumping some slightly higher percent of proceeds as a solution is just a gross oversimplification. And who says the Brothers will settle on a number equating to "slight"?

Also a lawsuit like this can create bad blood on both sides, and when that's your launching pad, all it takes is Disney saying the Thomas Brothers want too much money and control, the Brothers saying Disney is low-balling, and then I can 100% see Disney playing hardball, stop negotiating and just putting the franchise on ice for a few years. No doomsday scenarios here, just being a realist, especially looking at how Disney has handled other situations like icing out X-Men from Marvel pre acquisition, or the Islands of Adventure debacle. There doesn't seem to be a concern over halting content for fans, if the wait-it-out approach brings the desired result.

I remember reading that Fox's explanation why they canceled the series "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" after two seasons while other shows with similar cost & similar ratings survived was because Fox didn't fully own the show. So unless the Thomas Brothers sell Hunter all back to Disney for a one time sum, I think Predator will also be dealing with these type of obstacles.

So with all of this, I rather be prepared for what possibly may come, than not prepared.  :)

(https://y.yarn.co/61191c82-5b10-424b-bd3c-121c560ff1bd_text.gif)

As usual great wisdom in your words Voodoo.

My concern is Disney will not be interested in continuing the Predator franchise, its last films were not the kind of successes Disney wants, they usually want 1 Billion grossing films now, and a R rated film can't crack that number.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Jul 17, 2021, 02:15:45 AM
While I would love for Predator to join the billion dollar club, it's not realistic. Not unless they plan on a Pg-13 series so audiences can actually see the thing since by nature of it being R-rated your audience is that much smaller. You need to be realistic about horror franchises since they're cheaper to make but they make their money by virtue of it being cheap.

Though Disney could always use them for the comics or games and especially the games since Predator adapts fairly well to videogames. It doesn't need to just be the movies. You also possess crossover potential with any one franchise they own and AVP is still fairly popular given that's how a lot of modern fans are introduced to the character. It doesn't have to be strictly movies and could even go an animated route. Plenty of options Disney has than to just do superheroes.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 17, 2021, 02:41:33 AM
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Jul 17, 2021, 02:15:45 AM
While I would love for Predator to join the billion dollar club, it's not realistic. Not unless they plan on a Pg-13 series so audiences can actually see the thing since by nature of it being R-rated your audience is that much smaller. You need to be realistic about horror franchises since they're cheaper to make but they make their money by virtue of it being cheap.

Though Disney could always use them for the comics or games and especially the games since Predator adapts fairly well to videogames. It doesn't need to just be the movies. You also possess crossover potential with any one franchise they own and AVP is still fairly popular given that's how a lot of modern fans are introduced to the character. It doesn't have to be strictly movies and could even go an animated route. Plenty of options Disney has than to just do superheroes.

Oh I'd love a Predator or AVP Anime! There is so much that can be done in that form of animation at a low budget cost. Disney is already doing this with Star Wars Visions (Anime).
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 18, 2021, 12:21:03 PM
We reportedly already had an AvP Anime for Netflix in the works, perhaps even completed depending on the source. But the story is Disney axed it after the acquisition was completed.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 18, 2021, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Jul 17, 2021, 02:15:45 AM
While I would love for Predator to join the billion dollar club, it's not realistic. Not unless they plan on a Pg-13 series so audiences can actually see the thing since by nature of it being R-rated your audience is that much smaller. You need to be realistic about horror franchises since they're cheaper to make but they make their money by virtue of it being cheap./quote]

Hence the production of Skulls for Hulu, if what Marc Toberoff said is correct.

[Quite]Though Disney could always use them for the comics or games and especially the games since Predator adapts fairly well to videogames. It doesn't need to just be the movies. You also possess crossover potential with any one franchise they own and AVP is still fairly popular given that's how a lot of modern fans are introduced to the character. It doesn't have to be strictly movies and could even go an animated route. Plenty of options Disney has than to just do superheroes.

Predator is so versatile, I think it can even fit in the Marvel comic superhero universe permanently.

(https://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2020/07/Predator-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 20, 2021, 08:27:45 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 18, 2021, 12:21:03 PM
We reportedly already had an AvP Anime for Netflix in the works, perhaps even completed depending on the source. But the story is Disney axed it after the acquisition was completed.

Oh that would have been grand. Alas so many great projects abandoned.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 25, 2021, 04:14:59 AM
"Friday the 13th" Copyright Ruling may foreshadow the future for Predator
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/07/25/friday-the-13th-copyright-ruling-may-foreshadow-the-future-for-predator/
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Hemi on Jul 25, 2021, 07:35:47 AM
Everything illfonic touches.

It has nothing to do with them of course... but still. It's a curse haha.
They go in and create a game and suddenly there's a lawsuit lol.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jul 25, 2021, 07:41:51 AM
This is what happens when you try to cash in on nostalgia :laugh:
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Jul 25, 2021, 12:25:40 PM
You can do weird shit with Predator and still move the universe forward. And really after soon to be five solo films and seven counting crossovers you're at a point where maybe it's not a bad idea to have an unconventional villain. A more straight adaptation of Bad Blood would get you an alien slasher but still get you Predator and while they've featured the same armament in every film nothing says they couldn't drop certain things like the cloak or mask. And that goes back to Assassin where maybe they could go further with that. I know I certainly have a few ideas for a shaman-esque mutant.

And really we could always delve into the ritualistic elements of the creature without it being a sports hunter or a film that plays with the mythology without seeing as much the creature.

Worse comes to worst I figure if Fox is left unable to use the sports hunter angle or certain weapons they do have stuff to fall back on.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 25, 2021, 05:19:53 PM
Quote from: SuperiorIronman on Jul 25, 2021, 12:25:40 PM
I know I certainly have a few ideas for a shaman-esque mutant.

I would love to hear those ideas. Shaman is definitely a favorite of mine among the Lost Predators.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Jurassicvania on Jul 26, 2021, 01:05:25 PM
AVP Galaxy -- jwts, Thanks for the great coverage on this (and everything else) 
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 26, 2021, 02:21:05 PM
Thanks. Voodoo has been doing a great job of covering all the legal stuff!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 26, 2021, 05:17:25 PM
The appreciation is much appreciated!  :)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jul 29, 2021, 12:48:16 AM
Thing to consider would this mean Victor Miller can legally make a new film only in United States Domestic Territory called Friday the 13th that resembled the original film with Mrs Voorhees as the killer and no presences of Jason

whereas Horror Inc could do a new film WITH NO Friday the 13th in the title and a Hockey Masked Killer NOT REFERRED to as Jason?

And that 20th Century Studios an continue to do Predator movies whereas the Thomas Brothers can make a new film called HUNTERS which the titular Monsters resembling the original Jean-Claude Van Damme design?
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jul 29, 2021, 01:00:42 AM
There's actually some precedent for this in the Bond movie Never Say Never Again. The main Bond movies couldn't use Blofeld after On Her Majesty's Secret Service because the character's rights were tied to one of the producers of Thunderball, who also held the rights to that book.

So in the 80s to hold onto his rights he made his own unofficial Bond movie that's basically a remake of Thunderball featuring Blofeld, and got Connery back as Bond. It's not one of the official line, but it's a legal Bond movie made outside of the regular rights holder because the producer controlled certain related rights.

It's not quite the same, but we can see it's not completely outside the realm of possibility.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 29, 2021, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jul 29, 2021, 12:48:16 AM
Thing to consider would this mean Victor Miller can legally make a new film only in United States Domestic Territory called Friday the 13th that resembled the original film with Mrs Voorhees as the killer and no presences of Jason

whereas Horror Inc could do a new film WITH NO Friday the 13th in the title and a Hockey Masked Killer NOT REFERRED to as Jason?

And that 20th Century Studios an continue to do Predator movies whereas the Thomas Brothers can make a new film called HUNTERS which the titular Monsters resembling the original Jean-Claude Van Damme design?

If what 20th Century says holds true (where every Hunter(s) script rewrite was a work-for-hire and subsequently 20th Century was the author of said rewrites), than I believe the Thomas Brothers could only use the Jeanne-Claude Van Damme design *** IF *** it matched the creature's description in the very first spec screenplay that the Thomas Brothers wrote.  If that script instead describes an Alien Hunter say with four arms and very reptilian looking like the Nikita Knatz 1985 concept art, than I believe the Thomas Bros. could not use the JCVD worn design (which would fall under a 20th Century work-for-hire).

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/IMG_20210724_172513.png)

But yes, the Thomas Brothers would fully own their original Hunter(s) script and therefore could fully exploit it in the U.S. any way they see fit.

And we'll keep a close eye on Horror, Inc. (if they lose their appeal) and watch how they plan to proceed with exploring "new projects featuring settings and characters (including the hockey mask-wearing killer)".
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jul 29, 2021, 02:31:18 PM
Well I can't imagine they'd be able to use the Boss designs (or the one above) unless they actually paid for it - which I can't imagine the Brothers did.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 29, 2021, 02:44:22 PM
No they couldn't use the actual suit, but theoretically, they could resemble the Boss Film Studio design as much as the script description resembles it. Meaning, if the spec description described the Boss Film Predator to a T, the Thomas Brothers could not be sued for physically recreating another manifestation of it. It was their conception.

But the chances the Thomas Brothers creature details were that robust in the spec script, and simultaneously fully realized precisely by Boss Film, is super doubtful.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Jul 29, 2021, 04:58:40 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 29, 2021, 02:18:58 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/IMG_20210724_172513.png)

Where's that left pic from ? Looks dope
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 29, 2021, 08:11:03 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Jul 29, 2021, 04:58:40 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 29, 2021, 02:18:58 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/IMG_20210724_172513.png)

Where's that left pic from ? Looks dope

Early concept art for Predator.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Jul 29, 2021, 08:15:17 PM
Never saw that one before
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 29, 2021, 08:39:56 PM
Yeah, it's interesting. And perhaps it's the closest to that initial creature design the Thomas Brothers imagined, described in their first Hunter(s) script sold to 20th Century Studios. But since that screenplay is not in public circulation, we have no idea.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Clubroot on Jul 29, 2021, 09:06:58 PM
The early concept design looks more alien/reptile than the Rastafarian warrior hunter design that we all know and love . it would be interesting to see something made with that early concept idea. To me it looks more predator than predator lol and it gives off vibes of the creature devouring its prey to survive rather than collecting spines and skulls as a game.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SuperiorIronman on Jul 29, 2021, 10:22:24 PM
I remember seeing a custom toy of a multi arm Predator. Didn't look half bad.

*found it
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toyark.com%2Fattachments%2F19414d1361391122-heavypred-002.jpg&hash=5555597f66f0c6be24b0763eb4efab21bc1a0174)

I'm more into the idea of robotic arms but if presented right I'd totally be down for Goro regardless.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jul 30, 2021, 02:10:17 AM
We also got a Goro on the Hunting Reserve Planet.

(https://i.ibb.co/b22kLsW/Big-pred.png)
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Clubroot on Jul 30, 2021, 02:43:29 AM
Also reminds me of the Man Spider from the Spiderman animated series

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/8/8f/Man-Spider.png
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: ace3g on Dec 30, 2021, 02:18:21 AM
https://twitter.com/BDisgusting/status/1476351101439987712
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2021, 08:38:39 AM
Sounds more like a technicality that anything.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Dec 30, 2021, 11:51:26 AM
The whole thing was based on a technicality.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jan 13, 2022, 03:33:28 AM
Claim has been dropped with an "amicable" resolution.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/disney-predator-writers-settle-copyright-dispute-over-screenplay-2022-01-12/?utm_source=reddit.com
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 13, 2022, 05:42:52 AM
Thanks SiL




20th Century Studios & Thomas Brothers Settle Copyright Termination Date Dispute
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2022/01/13/20th-century-studios-thomas-brothers-settle-copyright-termination-date-dispute/
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jan 13, 2022, 05:50:33 AM
I feel considering the mention of an "amicable" solution it's most likely not an agreement on a deadline, but rather a financial agreement that gives the brothers royalties they feel better reflects the value of the property they helped to create. Or at least a deadline for such an agreement to be settled.

I think it's fair to say people can stop worrying about the Predator franchise getting torn apart at this rate.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Kradan on Jan 13, 2022, 06:52:30 AM
I wasn't worried - I was fascinated to see what interesting would come out of it. Turns out nothing. Pretty dissapointing if you ask me
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: RidgeTop on Jan 13, 2022, 07:07:14 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 13, 2022, 05:50:33 AM
I feel considering the mention of an "amicable" solution it's most likely not an agreement on a deadline, but rather a financial agreement that gives the brothers royalties they feel better reflects the value of the property they helped to create. Or at least a deadline for such an agreement to be settled.

I think it's fair to say people can stop worrying about the Predator franchise getting torn apart at this rate.

Yeah that's my interpretation as well. It's just not worth it for the Thomas brothers not to make a big sale of the rights as part of this I think. We don't know for certain if it's just a flat out sale, continuous royalties, or what but that's what this sort of thing typically means. Brothers were probably looking for a payday through this whole thing and likely got a handsome one.

Really good news.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jan 13, 2022, 07:13:27 AM
I'd absolutely say royalties, in line with the wording of the initial fillings. The provision was enacted to give writers better bargaining power to renegotiate rights and that's what they evoked in their claim.

Hopefully the brothers now receive a more equitable deal that better reflects the long-term value of their work.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Anonymous on Jan 13, 2022, 07:29:15 AM
$
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 13, 2022, 09:07:38 AM
I think this all over and done with. I know the technicalities of the lawsuit from Fox's POV were over the dates, but unless I'm misremembering, the initial lawsuit was for the copyright and the dates thing was Disney's counter-lawsuit. From what Reuters is saying it seems to me that the whole thing is done with. I've emailed Marc Toberoff to see if he can offer any comment/clarity.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Simply_Kevin on Jan 13, 2022, 12:36:56 PM
That's a relief! Even more now since we'll have   an ambitious new Predator instalment that could spawn a whole line of movies set in different eras and places around the world.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Xiggz456 on Jan 13, 2022, 12:57:01 PM
I'm guessing the Thomas bros upped their royalties percentage. Good for them and relieved that this is over! Now gimme that Predator comic already!
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Jan 13, 2022, 01:00:33 PM
We don't know what side this came out on yet. Reuters hasn't stated if the rights have gone back, or another settlement was reached.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 13, 2022, 01:13:34 PM
The Thomas Brothers lawsuit was indeed about dates:
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/04/18/jim-john-thomas-vs-disney-examining-the-battle-for-predator/

So was 20th Century Studio's:
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2021/04/24/the-battle-for-predator-examining-disneys-complaint/

Both parties were not fighting if the US rights shouldn't revert to the Brothers, just when it should.

Some see "settlement" and immediately think there's money involved. It just means they came to an agreement and won't take these lawsuits to trial. The lawsuit wasn't about financial damages. All I can see is they agreed to pay their own legal fees.

With the HELLRAISER rights, the settlement was about the the date:

Hellraiser' Writer Reclaiming U.S. Franchise Rights After Lawsuit Settlement
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/hellraiser-writer-reclaiming-u-s-franchise-rights-after-lawsuit-settlement-4098688/

Both parties settled amicably in December 2020 that rights would revert to the author December 2021. That is what the Hellraiser copyright settlement was.

The Predator lawsuits were about dates too. Those lawsuits were indeed settled amicably. I can't assume the two parties wrote up a new contract afterwards for more money. Maybe they did, but that wouldn't be handled through the courts. So we can only interpret the data in front of us.


May 22, 2022, 09:31:35 AM

Quote from: SiL on Jan 13, 2022, 05:50:33 AM
I feel considering the mention of an "amicable" solution it's most likely not an agreement on a deadline, but rather a financial agreement that gives the brothers royalties they feel better reflects the value of the property they helped to create.

"Amicable" is a law term basically meaning agreed by both parties without dispute. Who knows if the Thomas Brothers and 20th Century Studios went on to strike a financial deal, or are currently in negotiations to, but I wouldn't add extra meaning to that term.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jan 13, 2022, 09:19:32 PM
I suppose it's possible the brothers actually wanted the rights back for whatever reason, but it's incredibly unlikely that was their actual endgame. Their filings spoke to the provision's design as a means of a more equitable negotiation measure for writers, and everyone who seems to know what they're talking about seems to believe that was intent.

It's hardly premature or reading too much into anything to assume there's a good chance this was a financial settlement and not Disney inexplicably handing over the rights to a franchise they're clearly interested in exploiting.

People put far too much emphasis on the arguing over dates, as though that was the actual issue at play. It wasn't. They invoked the provision to return the rights; this normally triggers a discussion and negotiation. In this case it didn't, as Fox seemed to just ignore the whole thing, and so they were legally obliged to follow through. When the dates were argued they reapplied to keep their application to revoke open, otherwise they would've lost that bargaining chip.

The issue has always been about rights and their worth, not dates.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: Voodoo Magic on Jan 13, 2022, 11:23:18 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 13, 2022, 09:19:32 PM
Their filings spoke to the provision's design as a means of a more equitable negotiation measure for writers, and everyone who seems to know what they're talking about seems to believe that was intent.

We talked about this before. You're refering to the statuary background potion which is exactly what it is, statutory background of the 1976 Copyright Act. It doesn't represent the Thomas Brothers actual claim nor gives us any indication of what the Thomas Brothers motives are and what will they do when or if they reclaim the US Copyright back (even if we all have our personal suspicions.)

QuoteIt's hardly premature or reading too much into anything to assume there's a good chance this was a financial settlement and not Disney inexplicably handing over the rights to a franchise they're clearly interested in exploiting.

One can make assumptions, guess, speculate, certainly, but we won't in our article.

QuotePeople put far too much emphasis on the arguing over dates, as though that was the actual issue at play. It wasn't. They invoked the provision to return the rights; this normally triggers a discussion and negotiation. In this case it didn't, as Fox seemed to just ignore the whole thing, and so they were legally obliged to follow through. When the dates were argued they reapplied to keep their application to revoke open, otherwise they would've lost that bargaining chip.

We have Miller currently sitting with his "Friday the 13th" US rights back and we have Barker currently sitting with his "Hellraiser" US rights back, with a date decided by settlement. This is precedent enough not to declare what normally happens in cases where authors getting rights back in regards to spec scripts that turned into big franchises.

QuoteThe issue has always been about rights and their worth, not dates.

Rights, no proof yet of worth. Lawsuits are literal. These lawsuits were indeed about dates, about when the inevitability of those rights changing hands is supposed to occur. What Thomas Brothers endgame is, what they actually want to do with it... sell it back... always own a piece... negotiate some creative control.. shelve it, we're not going to assume, whatever we believe the odds favor. We're not in the heads of the Thomas Brothers so we won't pretend to be. We'll just report as it unfolds.
Title: Re: Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights
Post by: SiL on Jan 14, 2022, 12:12:27 AM
QuoteOne can make assumptions, guess, speculate, certainly, but we won't in our article.
Is anyone suggesting you do? ???