I was reading an interesting article this morning on Bloody Disgusting about the MPAA creating a new rating called “Hard R”. I guess for us non-Americans, the idea is to re-create the NC17 rating but without the negative impact on marketing. i.e. NC17 has a bad rep with cinemas and video stores like Blockbuster refuse to stock them.
“The goal is to find a category for some films that are now informally called “hard R’s” — i.e., content so graphic that no one under the age of 17 should be allowed to see it at all in theaters. The new generation of horror pics, namely, the “Saw” and “Hostel” franchises, are pushing the limits of the “hard R” category.”
How does this relate to AvP2, you’re wondering? Well, Fox chairman, Tom Rothman, continuously refers to AvP2 as being “Hard R”. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not but I must say it would be interesting if the gore factor in AvP2 can be compared to that seen in the Saw/Hostel series’.
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well it is there movie and they are trying to sell to you remember???
It would be good if it is Hard R.
I agree, the more I think about all the comments from the directors and from FOX, the more possible the new Hard R could be used for AVP2, as 300 showed this weekend, that an R rated film can still bring in the big bucks... if it is done right.
Finally an ALIEN V PREDATOR thats as sick and gory as SAW ;D "oh yeah"
Hmm...maybe they are making it hard R to make up for the PG-13 rating of the first movie haha.
my cousings will be sad... they will not going to see this i theater... they loved the firts one... BUT THIS MOVIE ROCKS! EVEN WE HAVE SEEN NOTHING!!!
Alien vs predator will be R rated an it is compared to saw?
The MPAA is stupid, the system is fine the way it is.
You don't seriously think It's going to be as gory as 'Saw'. You're getting your hopes up a bit too much again. It'll be better than AVP1, but not that better.
I think it was Jim Cameron who said that gore doesn't make a horror movie, it makes a merely disgusting movie. I saw 'SAW' (eheh), and Alien Resurrection had a lot of gore in it, and it didn't make it any better, merely more disgusting...Ergo, this R and 'Hard R' ratings don't mean anything to me, only the quality of the script, how it respects what precedes it, and the quality of filmmaking...
...and the R or 'Hard R' ratings will work against the movie, actually, narrowing its audience to an older one, preventing a bigger boxoffice revenue...That was, IMO, why they changed at the last minute , the rating for AVP...they wanted it to have a more widespread audience, including kids and all...to Paul Anderson's dismay, of course...changing a rating 3 months before its premiere is a recipe to disaster...the feeling of the movie, the violence, the story, all suffer with a change from an R rating to a PG-13... And who's fault is that, I ask again...?
AvP was PG-13 from the very start. Tom Hammel said they would be aiming for that rating about 7 months before the film came out. As well as all the 'PG-13 spurts of blood' placed all over the script. At least we know Fox isn't in it purely to cash in, the R-Rating among other positive things, seems to me like they're out for some sort of redemption...
Then there are two conflicting sources amidst Fox: one that says the 'three-months change' and the ' ohm we had that planned way in advance'...Of course Fox will not say they made controversial decisions that affected how AVP got received by the public...Remember the Predator DVD? Fox censured the more gorish scenes (Dillon's arm firing the MP5, Mac's head going splurt) so don't try to convince me and yourself that the PG-13 wasn't a last minute decision because Fox already has a history doing it...
Anderson Answers Alien vs. Predator Questions Source: Bloody-Disgusting Thursday, August 19, 2004 (...) Anderson was obviously very annoyed at the way the film was released. However, this was not purely because of the PG-13 limitation, which incidentally, the studio enforced THREE WEEKS before the release date! It was always going to be R until then. Part of the reason for the cutting was that some of the effects were not ready by the time the release date came around. The effects team had very little time to do anything.(...)" Although this may seem PW is only excusing himself, the fact remains that his script contained a LOT of deleted scenes (probably enforced by FOX), and others that never saw daylight, especially my fave: Scar trying to commit suicide when he realised he had a xeno inside him! And the last dialogue between him and Lex is very heartfelt, and they never saw the light of day, even in the uncut version, where all they did was computer-generating blood and add a lot of useless footage!! IMO the only ones to blame are FOX and the Alien triumvirate (Brandywine) who already managed to ridicule the Alien mythos and now the Predator one!
DUDE, "SAW" was one of the least gory movies I've seen in a long long time. Saw two Somewhat more so, SAW 3 YES, but to say that AVP 2 will not be as gory as Saw is quite unlikely considering the gore of the previous Alien and Predator films.
@ RIJOENPIAL Why did Anderson always decline to answer what the rating would be then? He was asked by JoBlo December 2003, and: "We’re not making any specific rated movie. We’re making the movie that we’re making and it’ll get the rating that it gets." And he'd use that persistently later on in interviews with Fangoria and the like... I mean, if it was R all along, why would he hesitate in saying that? The Strauses' have said on more than a million occasions that there film will be "Restricted". Anderson knew AvP wouldn't be. Besides, you quote is contradicting because Anderson is dead proud of what he did. To hear the actual man suck himself off watch the commentary on the AvP disc.
Gorier then Saw? YES DEFINITELY SAW WASNT GORY DUH
Two words for you, Suicide: Fox orders! In addition, between 2003 and 2004, a lot happened, it appears! Also, his reservations could be related with Fox's indecision until too late in the game! You have to establish at the beginning what rating the movie will get because it will affect the whole enchilada, from the script to the end product! The Strauses know NOW because of the whole AVP rating foulup, come on...! At least, APPARENTLY, Fox learned something... About your last statement, Paul Anderson's interview shows everything but pride...his script is too full of deleted scenes and scenes cut for him to be proud of it... ;D
And the commentaries are on FOX (note this)'s DVD...i can see him tear them apart there! Come on... ::)
(Beavis voice) Heh HEH YEAH!!! “Hard R”. YEAH!!! Some explosions, and people dying, really scared people, blood gore monsters. YEAH!!! …..And some POOP TOO!!! HEH HEH, YEAH!!! ;D
RIJOENPIAL - AvP was written as a PG13 to start off with. Everything else was made up. It was never R-Rated to begin with. But I agree with the others that AvP2 shouldn't be over the top with gore like it was with Res. I'm more interested in the UK rating and the implications for that. Hopefully it'll be 18.
I'm not so sure about the gore maybe a few skinned bodys and chestbursters ought to do it but personally I'm fine with gore so BRING IT ON !!!!!!!!!!
(...) Anderson was obviously very annoyed at the way the film was released. However, this was not purely because of the PG-13 limitation, which incidentally, the studio enforced THREE WEEKS before the release date! It was always going to be R until then. Part of the reason for the cutting was that some of the effects were not ready by the time the release date came around. The effects team had very little time to do anything.(...)" i thought that this source was a fake wasn't it???? ??? i hope that as well Darkness mate, so that it follows the trend!
It was fake. Some press conference with Anderson was made up on IMDB.
I agree with darkness it dont need to be over the top gore im more on the fights let them be brutal not like the first avp witch sucked if u asked me but lets just wait n see.....
Well, Darkness, you seem pretty sure about your claims... Nevertheless, if you are right, then Paul Anderson is actually off the hook, because no PG-13 rated AVP movie (Disney, anyone?) would ever be any good... the horror would be absent, so would the gore, and a movie featuring two monster with no gore and no horror would be a disgrace from conception...By the way, could you tell me why are you so sure? Who or what are your sources for your claims?
And this interview (not press conference) was present in two other sites... Also, it would be a crime to impersonate and quote people saying something they did not...
How is Anderson off the hook? He wrote it as a PG-13 and approached the studio with the idea... They lapped it up. Regardless of the rating, the film's pretty weak in all areas anyway.
The rating guidelines are not proposed by the writer, but by the studio... and IMHO AVP is a good standalone movie, the problem was somewhere else...on the producers, studio and fans' own wishes on what AVP should be which actually prevented them from enjoying it...An AVP rated PG-13 would never deliver what the fans wanted...ever... and actually bearing this in mind, i actually am enjoying it the more times I see it, because I know that Alien and Predator movies are one thing, and AVP ones are something entirely different... We can't compare Alien movies with the predator ones and none of them can be compared to AVP...it was a movie that aimed at a broader audience, not the hardcore, gore-loving fans...Get used to it...It seems AVP 2 will be just the same, only with more gore... LOL
I am sure and I am right. It was all made up. A lot of movie websites reported it but it was fake. There's even a video interview with Paul Anderson on one movie site where he said it was never R Rated to begin with and no footage had been cut out.
i hate the fact that people keep saying that AVP is a stand alone movie and i know Anderson said the same thing but how can it!!!. it uses the 2 monsters from the other movies and use the same mythology
plus he ( Anderson ) tries to connect the movie to the Alien universe!! so he contradicts on what he says!!
what i mean by 'standalone movie' is this: a movie who may well use two or more characters from other movies but that does not affect directly the mythos or continuity NEGATIVELY...Paul's AVP does add to the mythos but does not affect it on a negative side...the only two aspects that could affect Alien continuity is the setting (earth, although the remote, CLASSIFIED setting safeguarded Alien continuity) and Charles Bishop Weyland, which actually developed and nourished Alien background... It did not affect Alien continuity the way AVP 2 will...now, we will have aliens on a populated area of the US, with lots of witnesses and Alien CORPSES for the future Weyland Yutani study to their contentment...So, i think Paul Anderson's AVP will not mak a dent to Alien mythos, AVP 2 certainly will...
Darkness, let me understand your meaning: you truly believe that Paul Anderson would, under Fox's payroll, say in 2003 (under Fox's payroll) anything that could contradict Fox's directives,,,In 2004, AFTER AVP got out, AFTER PAul Anderson was no longer obliged to be Fox's spokesperson, he could say wht he really felt about Fox's decisions...so, sorry if i choose to disagree with you... Oh, and Paul's script proves you and him wrong, apparently..with all the deleted cscenes and the scenes that never made it to the final cut...
You're just not understanding what people are saying and I'm not sure I understand what point it is you're trying to get across. Anderson has never spoken negatively about Fox or AvP. He thinks he did a great job with the film and has no problems with it. Sure, but lots of scenes were scripted but probably never even filmed. Happens in every movie. Scenes are cut for pacing/budget reasons. But they weren't cut for the rating. That's what you're trying to get at, isn't it? And yes, AvP did negatively affect both the Alien series and Predator series greatly when it came to continuity with the previous films but I'm not going to get into that here. Many of us have said the things numerous times before.
This topic has strayed a little off... the good news that if this rating system is used, and is profitable for FOX, we could see an AVP2 made without the limitation of NC-17. I don't feel that AVP2 would come close to an NC-17 rating... but it would be nice if the directors could be free to make a movie true to thier vision and not limited to a safe R. I think that all fans deserve a great film.
Believe what you want, Darkness... I am talking about facts here...and if you READ the final script, you would notice a lot of scenes that were there but never made it and some of them changed the feeling and pace of it... That is also fact...i knwo exactly what i am talking about...always did...always will... other fact remains that you will never know what were on those deleted scenes and why they were cut in the first place... But you believe what you want...Not my concern... Also, AVP did not affect NEGATIVELY the Alien continuity, and i said that, so stop putting words in my mouth, if you please... It never even remotely touched it...as fas as ALIEN - the movie is concerned, the general idea was that somehow Weyland-Yutani knew about the Xenos' existence, but didn't know where they were...so that give a little leeway as to where that info came from, which i gather, will be in AVP2 and never was in AVP (remember the CLASSIFIED destination of the Piper Maru?). So, IMHO, it didn't affect Alien continuity, it enriched it with Charles Weyland an the idea that the android was built to homage him... I just hope when AVP2 comes out and you realise how bad it is, you remember what you said here... Having said that, i agree with Fawdrey...let's go back to topic, shall we? I apologise for my little straying... ;D
RIJ: The event known as the Roswell incident supposedly had dead extraterrestrials, a populated area and many witnesses, but whether or not you believe, disbelieve or are agnostic about it, it's not broadly accepted as ever having been proven. Who's to say that this story would not be relegated to the same level, by the time Ripley and others happen to be depicted as alive? It could be listed as just one more UFO event and only specialist researchers would bother to pay attention to any descriptions. That's assuming a ship is even found by the general public. If not, then the only 'witnesses' would be those killed. The one who survive are only going to be able to report some maniac running around with blades and a gun, plus some monsters. If so, then there would be no reason for the general population to link them with extraterrestrials. Just an unexplained event. Who's to say how many wars could emerge in the meantime and wipe out any records to do with them? And the first film was spoken of as intentionally canon, by those involved. There was a reference to it being a new franchise, but that's more of an economic term: 'Voyager' was its own franchise, but it also happened to be canon, in regards to being a part of the 'Star Trek' franchise, as a whole. The interview, however, is regarded as fake by most. It never backed up its sources. The list of people allegedly attending the screening were never shown to have been anywhere near there.
Xeno, my two-cents actually were on the Weyland company finding the remains of Xenomorphs...the rest couls well be tight-lipped, desinformation, cloak and daggered stuff..i said that before..but the remains would enable Weyland to study them 150 years before the Nostromo's demise... You do understand my predicament here..? About Paul's interview...Paul never negated having given that interview and your reasons for dismissing it are not enough to prove it did not happen for a fact... Just because many people say something doesn't man it's true...And i realise that your hatred for Paul could well be amplifying your denial... I mean, if Paul had in mind an entirely different movie, then he would be oof the hook, wouldn't it? And then, you would have to blame the anonymous Fox suits, which would not give you that much thrills, now would it? Just a thought... ;D :) ??? 8)
I don't mean to criticise anyone, just something i came to realise about myself while watching any movie...
...I started off by criticising negatively this movie when i first saw it on theatres, but after a while, I came to realise that this AVP movie, a crossover movie, is just intended to be pure fun...especially if it does not affect negatively what preceded it...
...the incubation period being accelerated, the design of the Predator spaceship, Lance Henricksen's character, the isolated locale, the confidential scientific trip, the destruction of the pyramid and the aliens with it, the Queen sinking, they do not affect continuity, and it clearly shows an effort to keep it a self-contained, isolated event that does not change nor affect Alien continuity...
...Paul Anderson did say that AVP was a sequel to Pred II and a prequel to Alien, but i think he was saying that in terms of time...there are no events alluding to events depicted in Pred II, nor does the events allude to anything that happens in Alien...We still don't know how Weyland-Yutani came to know about the Xenomorph's existence, nor do we know why they have become obsessed with it... AVP 2 is reportedly covering those grounds...which makes it a more interfering movie than AVP was, and a more dangerous movie because of just that...the acceleration of alien growth can have a million different reasons off-screen that can be filled by any fan's and spectator's imagination... The teaming up of the Predator and Lex..? Its in the comics... You just liked or disliked how it was put together, which is natural, however, your reasons for liking or disliking it can be and will always be arguable... That's why we're all here... ;)
I'm getting pretty tired of you now. You're clearly one of these AvP fanboys that only believes what you want to believe. It's pointless even talking to you. I hate to say it but I know more about AvP than most people. I followed the film reporting news on it daily for an entire year. I even wrote this article just the other month detailing what deleted scenes there are: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/avpmovie.php?section=avpdeleted2 I looked in the script. That article took me a long time to write and you have the cheek to tell me what I don't know what was deleted? You're on the right path to being banned if you carry on like this.
First of all, Darkness, don't pretend to know me...second, this is all a misunderstanding from your part, not mine...! All I was saying was that you don't know what the deleted scenes IN THE SCRIPT were, not the deleted scenes IN THE MOVIE! You saw all those scenes that said 'Scene XX deleted'...Do you know what they were? That was all I was saying, not that you didn't know what scenes FILMED didn't make the final cut...That we all know by now, thanks to you... SO, instead of making threats, just ask whatever seems fuzzy to you, OK? I don't like threats, especially based on misunderstandings...But if you still want to enforce them, then by all means, do it...it will just make the wrong impression about you, not me... You DO know that you're not the owner of the truth, right...?
Who cares what scenes were in the script or not? The point is AvP wasn't R-Rated to begin with. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Darkness, it is not hard for me to understand..i am just crossing sources of information, nothing more...I am just taking into account what Paul Anderson said...not in 2003, but in 2004...statements that he never retracted in the first place...so you prefer some sources, i prefer others...that is all...and i explained why i had suspicions about what he said in 2003 and why i think he was genuine weeks after AVP premiered...
And If the movie never was R-rated in the first place, whose fault is this? PWA? I don't think so...
Right, here's the proof once and for all: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OAFV3VT7 Interview with Paul Anderson in October 2004. He says the previous reports were fake and says that there was never any R-Rated footage to begin with. And it's not about sources. This is common knowledge and has been for a long time.
I followed the production of AVP 1 and have to admit, I was always under the impression that AVP 1 was a PG-13 film from the start. I am not saying I KNOW, but from a fan who payed close attention, My understanding from the start was that it was a PG-13 film and was never intended to be R. It was a PG-13 film because there was little human death and more alien death. The R rating would have come in if there was more RED BLOOD. As for AVP 2, I think there will be plenty of human deaths invoved, ergo the R rating. Not gory like SAW, but i think we will see a healthy cross between ALIENS and PREDATOR.
the link is'nt working on mine. i really wanna hear what he said! its annoying that Mr Anderson would make AVP like this! why!!!!!! he annoys me cause most of his movie apart from maybe Event Horizon, were all awful! so called fan, my butt!!!
So, that is why Paul Anderson is not guilty of every sin committed while producing AVP...The rating is not his choice, but the studio's...the script only gets the greenlight from the studio, not on PWA's whim...and the movie is not that bad, once you put it into perspective...This is not Shakespeare, nor is it Schindler's List...that is why i actually started to enjoy this more...And I am not a fanboy, although i have seen Pred 1 and 2 and the Alien 3+1 many times...I enjoyed more ones than others, but one thing I have learned after all these years is that cutting back the criticism and actually enjoy the movie for what it aims and is...that is why I said that Pred I and II are different from Alien 3+1 and both differ from AVP in many ways /namely the budget) and all differ from mainstream Hollywood... You can't compare this movie with Alien or Predator, it is a movie-spectacle just to see the advancements in animatronics, prothetics, and visual effects, not to get an amazing story...if they failed this with twice the budget and better directors and screenwriters on movies that matter more (ALIEN and PREDATOR) why do you think this lower budget movie, cast of unknowns, would prevail where the better ones failed...?
i've always had a feeling bout this movie going completely wrong in my eyes, ever since they appointed Anderson but i do agree with you RIJOENPIAL that the studio has the final say in this matter. BUT how can you say that all we want to see is damn animatronics, prothetics, and visual effects! thats not what most of the fans wanted, sure there has to be an improvement in the visual effects but we want a good story as well!! what so hard about that! with the right writers this could have been a pretty good movie!
Topman - Link works for me. Anyway, the video is from FilmFocus.co.uk but you need to be a registered member so I uploaded it to MegaUpload for people to view. RIJOENPIAL - Anderson isn't exactly blame-free in all this. He wrote the film as PG13. In the script, it even makes reference to "PG13 Friendly...". He knew that was the only way Fox would ever make AvP - if it would be guaranteed to make a lot of money. I don't know but I was expecting a lot more from AvP and so was a lot of other people. It's funny how you have no hope at all for AvP2. It isn't very hard to make a better film than what Anderson did.
Darkness, I apologise for i was writing while you were posting...I am still downloading...but I again repeat that the Rating is the Studio's department, not the director/screenwriter's...I think that for the most maintream audience, a movie featuring an ALien and a Predator fighting each other will not attract them the way it will the fans...and that is why i think it is very unfair for you to judge Paul Anderson blaming him for everything that went wrong in the movie... That is my main concern...A spectator that watches a Resident Evil, or an ALien versus Predator, with that demanding agenda, will never enjoy watching any of them...The studios' idea of what we want intermingles with what they want us to see...and that is why they gave us an AVP rated PG-13...They know that the hardcore fans of both franchises want it bloody and gutsy, but they want to attract the mainstream audiences, especially kids, probably to sell more merchandising...That is all they are aiming at, revenue...and PWA is not the one to blame for that...I also enjoyed Resident Evil for the exact same reasons, it is not Shakespeare, but it sure entertains... ;D
I tend to distinguish between summer popcorn movies and real Hollywood movies like Braveheart, SChindler's List and so on and so forth... This is nothing more than a popcorn movie and apparently the brass from Fox agrees with me...You don't see a Jim Cameron agreeing to do a movie like this or a Steven Spielberg or an Aaron Sorkin (West Wing) writing this kind of movie? Why is that? Do you think Fox doesn't know a good script when they see one? Or lowering expectations is just part of their plan, knowing full well that an ALien 5 or a Predator 3 is long overdue in the minds and hearts of the fans? They know all this, but they choose to make two AVP movies in a matter of 2, 3 years...why?because they don't want to make another big budget Alien or Pred after the debacle of Alien Resurrection! Plain and simple...and the reason they are doing AVP is to capitalise on us, 'fans', not to broaden the A and P mythos...
Sorry about me monopolising the board...so much to say, so little space.. ;D ... but i will end soon enough...just wanted to say this: The reasosn why i foresee AVP2's demise is right there in front of our eyes: the small town setting, the huggers from nowhere, the excessive hype and too high expectations (or too low, if people just want a better script than Anderson's to be contented...these are your own words there, Darkness), the dangerous implications to Alien continuity much more dangerous than AVP's... And the cast, so badly cast, that makes me want to cry...This cast (and, of course, Shane SaLerno) is more than enough proof that Fox is not aiming at all at a better story, but at a better profit...low budget cast, virtually unknown and weak, directors making their debut flick and completely arrogant about it... what's not to like about AVP2...?
I don't think the hype on this movie is high, for now only the fans even really know about it. This franchise is about to redeam itself, just you wait. These new directors have a good understanding and are monitering sites like this for feedback. The whole small town thing may be a rouse just to through us fans off. It was filmed in Vancouver, a 3 million + city. How small a town could it be with filming locations like that. If it is a small town we may be faced with some kick ass scenes in the woods, ie same filming locations as in Underworld 2. The point is that the Strause Bros. realize the mistakes made by the first one, now they have a strong reference to what the fans want and they have the freedom within the R rating to do what they want. FOX may have been leary with the first film, and kept it PG and popcorny. Now that FOX knows people will go see AVP and that a hardcore film can make money,the fun can start.
i think it is gay that you need to be over 17 and you cant have an adult with you if your under age..but i love it when its on DVD
Fawdrey, I don't know about you, but I don't want a movie that just meets my expectations...I want it to surpass them and be memorable in a good way...Making a 'surgical' movie to meet fans' expectations is just wrong...Movies should be creative and definitely surprising, mind-boggling, showing us something we've never seen before, always within boundaries such as preserving continuity, respecting the previous material they are spelunking... About Vancouver, from the pics I've seen, they were shooting on residential streets, to make it look like a small town...A large city would be too much for a sole predator to find lurking Aliens...not to mention a million potential hosts... The R-rating will just show more blood, guts and a huge work from the prothetics department, kinda like Starship Troopers... ;D And we all know what that movie was worth, apart the satirical anti-war subtext... So the R-rating will just be a more disgusting movie, not a better one...Gore and maimed bodies, after 4 movies with Xenos doing it, is getting boring, actually...we need additions to the mythos, not an 'auto-pilot' movie, showing us what we want to see...that is just a waste of time, in my book... and precious resources that could be used to do a REAL Alien or Predator movie... After reading the advance script and realising what remained from that first draft, I fear that this will be the definitive nail in the ALien coffin...
I know, I'm a party pooper! I just want to save you guys $ 5 and a ton of disappointment... ;) 8)
..But December is still far away, so I've got time... ;D ;D
I hope there is a lot of blood and gore in AvP2
I think we all want a movie that will exeed our expectations, The first movie FOX needed to know that they could make money, now that they know the money is there, they might relax. The movie will depend on story first and formost. Your right that a gory movie is not what makes this franchise great. You are also right that the pictures show a more small town feel... but no small town I have ever been to has a sewer system that is big enough for an Alien. Every press release just seems too scripted. I just think with the way the hype machine works these days and the lack of actual details, It wouldn't be out of the question for the directors to pull the wool over our eyes and make a movie that will actually kick ass. Maby i am giving them too much credit or maby my hopes are to high, but if you (RIJOENPIAL) are a true fan... then you too, are hoping for a great movie.
If they are going to add a bunch af gore, It may be interesting to see some new predator trophy rituals. Although, if the Predator is there to clean up an Alien outbreak, it may be difficult to explain some human trophies with all those Aliens around.
Sure I am, Fawdrey... although all seems pointing the other way...a script produced too fast after AVP, a movie produced too fast after AVP, and the rest, seems that they are pulling the wool over the wool they pulled ;D Maybe that's just Fox's marketing strategy...to divert attentions...but unless they do a pre-screening before the premiere, this is just noise... ~ I don't know how big the sewers are in a small American town, but I don't even know if the Aliens would fit NY sewers :D However, from the looks of it, especially the characters involved and actors' statements, I get the feeling this will be in a small town kinda like the 'Outbreak' one, to enabl some self-containment and desinformation from the Weyland and police authorities...so it has to be a remote location otherwise there will be too many variables that will result in a flawed script and movie, and they and we don't want that, right? So, my bets are still the setting advanced by the first draft, with some alterations, especially the K-Mart scene being dropped...The sewers are still there, the sole Predator responding the distress call...but, man, a WHOLE Predator clan wiped out!!! So, the Aliens already won....!! :(
How about we both hope for the best. I would be nice to see some of the Directors previous movie experience. But for now, other than the 1 production still, there is no telling which way it will go. Could be good... could be bad. I'm gonna go with good. I don't feel they are rushing the movie either, they finished shooting a full year before it is set to release. (Not including reshoots).
Hey, I sure hope the Strause Bros. can get something out of Shane Salerno's script...and make the Alien and Predators look lifelike, as best as possible... About the setting, my wishes are that they discover a credible way to maintain the mystery around the Xenos for the Nostromo events 150 years later... Pretty tough job... but they looked serious enough to make it work...IF the script is well-written...otherwise...Paul's AVP will be the least of your worries... ;D >:( :'(
The script is the big thing.... AVP 1 was just so far-fetched, things happened in that movie that were impossible. Fans are not stupid... Chopper's death was cool but.... how long was that tail? If you have read the comics, they did the perfect setting in the first one. That is the movie they should make, that way you don't have to explain why the Aliens don't spread outside the town. I really hope they don't make the same mistake that Alien 4 made. When Ripley died, that should have ended that arc. They should have started new... think of the first bit of the first FINAL FANTASY movie. the city was distroyed and humans sit above in a space station trying to reclaim the planet. AVP 1 should just end... forget that mess and go to the comic for referance. If you have not read it, your missing out. With that said, there is a lot of potential with this one, we could be in for some new stuff, ie the Predalien, unless it turns out like the Newborn from Alien 4.
IMO, the Predalien will be the first major test for the ADI crew because it needs to be scary, credible (from what we know about the mixing of different DNAs, Xeno with humans or Preds...) and if it fails, the rest will fall apart like a castle of cards... About the AVP comics, I just skimmed through them, so i don't know what went in that non-canonic Dark Horse series... What I do know is that they need AVP to respect Alien continuity and, if possible, add to it without disrupting what will happen 100 years later with Ripley and the Nostromo crew...Fox already said they will make the bridge between AVP and the Alien saga with AVP2, so this AVP2 will not only be the redemption of AVP1, but a more important movie than we give it credit for... S they better do it right...
You got to remember that despite the fact you would like transposing a stroy from the comics to movie, you know tha what works in comics doesn't necessarily work in a movie...That is why the Batman movies feel very different than the comics...in comics, there are a lot more characterisation of the characters than in a 90, 100-minute movie... I think it's a mistake to make the sequel on Earth...It would be so much better the spaceship landing on the Yautja planet and the Predalien wreak havoc among them... And the situation being so desperate that the Predator king or whatever would instruct some Predators to go an seek Lex, Dutch and Harrigan to help them... Now that would be an awesome movie, unpredictable and with immense possibilities...this AVP2 setting sounds lazy, looks just a re-hatch of the first one, only in a different, more urban setting, like the Pred II was to Pred I...
I think it should be HARD R because all the other movies (exept AvP >:( ) were all R-rated
To quote you, RIJ... "Don't pretend to know me." :) Please do not put words in my mouth. I have never given eany indication I have "hated for Paul." What gave you that impression? I actually liked the film more than several in both series. It could have been better than it was, but happened to be entertaining. All I said was that the other people reported as allegedly being at the einterview were shown not to be, which makes it dubious. The event it was supposedly taken it did not even exist. I don't see why or how they could retrieve any remains if the items in question happen to be incinerated and the like. Even if they aren't, how would they locate any and identify them for what they are? How do we know the things don't just decompose unless treated with something? And if they do study bits and pieces of them, what would it matter? The general public won't ever know. We don't even have any indication that Weyland's company would be in the film. They might not have any knowledge about this event. They could well be getting broken up and sold off to create the new entity of 'Weyland-Yutani', by this time, for all anyone knows.
Or hatred for Paul, even... Also, the script is not too quick. A script, depending on the quality of the writer, can be written in only a few days, if it's good enough. I've done scripts in under a week which have got great reviews (no, nothing for money yet, but something is in the pipeline which gives me hope) and they were all done in well under a month. Having three entire years to do it is nothing. In fact, it could have been a story the writer happen to have had in mind for a long time, were given this project and then simply adapted it to the characters and setting requried.
Xenomorphine, I apologise...I was being generic, not personal there, about the 'Hate PWA' group...Also, regarding what I said about Xenos' remains, unless the Predator activates his self-destruct device (pretty lame) or there is some containment by the military or the Weyland corporation (or Yutani genesis may well be surfacing here), I see no way to maintain continuity...Remember that, 150 years later, Weyland Yutani knows about the existence of the xenos...Now how could they know about them? HOw could they know that the beacon on LV-426 was related to the Xenos, and not just an alien spacecraft in trouble? I never read the Alien novel, where they stated that the xenos were a bio-weapon created by the SpaceJockey species, so I'm not sure if they ever addressed this...
...Meanwhile, I am just refering to Tom Rothman's words, when he said that AVP2 was going to fill in the blanks between AVP and the Alien movie...So something must happen in AVP" that will enable what will happen 150 years later... The relevancy of the xeno study means that it will conflict with Alien...they knew about their existence, just didn't know about their morphology (remember Ash's first describing the Xeno) meaning they never encountered any xeno before...which will definitely contradict with xenos coming to earth and facehuggers lying there for any science team to study them...The xenos' corpses don't decay like ours...we know that their silicone-based skin is quite durable, they don't decay in minutes or hours...
... And you're right, we don't know exactly what will be there, however we do know what Tom Rothman said about it being the bridge between AVP and Alien...The mere possibility that someone will know about the xenos before Alien, and the obvious possibility that there will be a lot of facehuggers, hive structures, alien corpses, hanging around, is a realistic aftermath of any conflict between Predators-Xenos-humans...so i think this a reasonable claim... About Shane Salerno's script...AVP premiered in late 2004, right...? So in late 2005, there was already a script from Shane Salerno, reviewed quite negatively by AICN, right on August 2006..? So, on August, September 2006...AVP2 begins production, not to mention the pre-production, probably 2, 3 months earlier or more...March 2007...AVP ends principal photography, with a month or two for reshoots,a nd the remaining 8 months for post-production...So, in a word, the script so negatively reviewed in 2006 could never be started anew in such a short period of time...it's not realistic...meaning most of the scenes will be still there in the final script, although some scenes may simply be dropped...I wasn't talking about the time period in itself, just that the frist draft that took that full year turned out to be a disgrace, so why would anyone think that a quick rewrite would be any better...? THAT's all I am saying...THAT and a lot else, it seems... ;D
There was actually someone who asked about a self-destruct mechanism being at the end of the film and there was a sort of 'no comment' attitude in the answer. Quite whether that means it was in one of the drafts, might be a red herring they want to set up or something else, who could say? Bridging the two films together, I don't see as anything like a problem. They said that about the previous one, too, but it ultimately turned out to be something alluded to, rather than anything else. The novel said as much as the film about the beacon: The Nostromo crew assumed it was a warning, but after only a few hours of Ripley spending more time on it, she was the one who said it then looked like a warning. I would imagine that a professional team of cryptologists would have even earlier success! Nowhere was it said, outside of Ripley Scott's mind, that they were definitely a biological weapon, much less whether they were manufactured or just naturally discovered. Ash only spoke about the ship not being like anything seen before and, considering when he said it (while still maintaining cover), could have been lying. Again, I've done scripts in well under a month. Under a week, even. Simply tweaknig someone else's work, already in place, would be even quicker! Heck, I could have done over the last film's script in well under a week and improved it by a very large degree.
Xenomorphine, I apologise again...the SpaceJockey stuff was mentioned in non-canonical litterature... but there is an H.R. Giger panel showing the SpaceJOckeys impregnating themselves with the facehuggers, and the cargohold with hundreds of eggs kinda go towards this 'bioweapon devised by the Jockeys' idea...the panel was real, it was supposed to be in the SpaceJockey's chamber but never made it, presumably because it gave too much away about the alien... here's the link: http://www.andreaonnet.webzzanine.net/lacrypte/gigeretadeptes/giger/384.jpg
...About Ash, i was talking about his description of Xeno's morphology, Xenomorphine, not about the ship... His intrigued face before he was drilled by Ripley about him opening the outer hatch against her orders, kinda gave him away...he was ordered to preserve the Alien...so why was that...Ash violated company quarantine orders BEFORE knowing the Special Order, which makes me assume that they knew all along about the Xeno's existence...but that is arguable and the subject for another movie, probably written by Dan O'Bannon (if he is still alive, that is... I know, I know, bad humour).
About the the script...name me one sequel of late that surprised you or even pleased you...If they failed top nail it with all the time in the world to do it. why would you think they would in such short time? Was Pred II better than Pred I? Was Die Hard 2 better than Die Hard 1? Do sequels get any better than the original, apart from some, few and far between, cases? AVP was bad according to some, so their reasoning is that AVP2 can only get better...Past history tends to show otherwise...
RECENT past history, I might add... Oh, and Xenomorphine...put your money where your mouth is...if you're so good, why aren't your scripts being put into film? You do realise that not all viewers want gore, or more Aliens, or less Predators...'Aliens' did not have gore and it is considered the best Alien movie, so where is the basis for this reasoning? The Predator movie only had one Predator, and the thrills it gave was because he hardly ever saw him, so why would more guys in suits be better? This is something i fail to understand...If you think you can do better, then submit your script to Fox and see what they say...Also, and I said before, what fans want to see is NOT what the majority wants...gore is just nauseating and does not enable a story to be good...Aliens was proof of that...it delivered action, tension and it did not need blood all over the place... This is not Saw or Hostel...and Saw's main quality was that it delivered a top-notch story, not the blood by the gallons... an R-rating won't be enough to save a movie if the story is no good...if the cast is no good...if the FX are not good... Unless you, Xeno, walk under the same shoes as PWA and other writers, and get your script approved, then what you are saying doesn't really matter, now does it?
Sorry about my honesty, but it is for your own good... you know that a good script needs more than time, it needs quality and a knowledge of how a movie, from filming to editing, works...you have to take everything into consideration, pacing, rythm, plot, subplot, genres involved...all in a cohesive script that can be filmed...and you better write it with scenes to spare, because there will be a lot of them that will never see the light of day...you will have to compromise key sequences for time restraints' sake... Have you thought about that at all?
That is how hard a script is...Paul Anderson's AVP script is filled with deleted scenes, some filmed, others not, and a lot of them completely deleted from the script... So, you do realise that corrections, improvements, deletions, will always be in order, so why do you still think that the final cut was even remotely close to what the original script intended? When you cut here and there, all that remains is this: a 90-minute story with little characterisation, little or no subplots, and just scenes that for the most part don't make much sense...That is why I don't spit on PWA because i know that a screewriter's job is full of thorns and he or she has always to compromise and eat their pride if they want to see their movie on screen...Dan O'Bannon said often times in an angry tone that the Brandywine triumvirate stripped his original script and not only made it their own, they changed a lot of scenes...the same Brandywine that co-produced AVP... so there you go...I know i won't change your mind, but i can always hope, now can't I?
:o
o yeah its goin to be r rated