Since Ridley Scott is trying so hard to rip the AVP universe apart with his 'Prometheus/Alien Covenant' movies, I am in the process of writing up an AVP movie but in short story format.
I call it; AVP:S Aliens Vs Predator: Survival.
Even though it's set in the future, it's not a direct sequel to the first two movies or have any links to them.
The difference this time, is that there is no human interaction at all. Which means little to no dialogue whatsoever.
Here is a short synopsis:
After capturing three dishonourable Super Predators and imprisoning them on a ship to return home, they manage to escape their holds and send the ship crashing towards an unknown planet.
Following an honourable Predator, that escapes the ship before the crash, is the only survivor. Things get worse as he discovers that the planet is also host to the most dangerous species the Predators have ever faced, the deadly Xenomorph.
The only way off the planet, is to get to the his crashed ship, where a distress signal is automatically sent from and is the beacon for a pick-up point. But between him and the beacon, are miles of dangerous terrain and the lethal Xenomorph that are lurking everywhere.
With more than meets the eye, the predator becomes the prey. As for now, there is no hunt. There is only survival.Would you be interested in seeing an AVP movie, where it follows the actions of both species with no human interactions?
Also, how do you like the sound of my story so far? What I have given here, does not go into any details and is not as straight forward as it suggests, as it should be.
Here is my concept image for a poster/banner.
(https://pre00.deviantart.net/04e9/th/pre/f/2017/279/0/5/avps_aliens_vs_predator__survival__poster_by_ultimate_savage-dbpqijl.png)
Link to original concept; https://ultimate-savage.deviantart.com/art/AVPS-Aliens-Vs-Predator-Survival-Poster-708355425
Thoughts?
Needs marines.
These guys, specifically.
(https://i.gyazo.com/0e695ff20447d21b094882f858dd5d26.jpg)
Needs hairy shoulders.
Word.
QuoteEven though it's set in the future, it's not a direct sequel to the first two movies or have any links to them.
Great start!
QuoteThe difference this time, is that there is no human interaction at all. Which means little to no dialogue whatsoever.
Ummmm...
QuoteAlso, how do you like the sound of my story so far?
With just one predator for most of the story, may as well call it
Predator Kills AliensQuoteWould you be interested in seeing an AVP movie, where it follows the actions of both species with no human interactions?
You're story might make for an entertaining read, but it won't fly as a movie. Gotta have people or the audience won't care.
QuoteThe difference this time, is that there is no human interaction at all. Which means little to no dialogue whatsoever.
Maybe a little of Yautja translation in there, but if you knew about the creatures enough, they don't exactly have conversations. But their physical expressions stand out enough for people to understand.
QuoteWith just one predator for most of the story, may as well call it Predator Kills Aliens
Like I have stated, my short synopsis doesn't give away any detail. Look at it as if you're reading the back of a DVD cover to a movie ;)
QuoteYou're story might make for an entertaining read, but it won't fly as a movie. Gotta have people or the audience won't care.
Where is this "rule"? First, there is the brand(s) that everyone knows. So the fans will understand that the Yautja & Xenomorph don't chit-chat. Second, there are a few movies that don't have "people" for a movie to work, so I don't see why this has to be a sort of "must"? 3rd, After multiple movies from all 3 franchise' (Alien, Predator, AVP), Something different might be worth a shot. Following a lone Predator on the reverse of what his species does for a living, might add intrigue from viewers as they would see the different instincts at play instead of just "hunt mode".
Story's generally need someone to root for, which means a human or something with human-like qualities. The Predator could fill that role, but ultimately it's a monster and likely becomes the lesser of evils rather than a hero of the story.
Quote from: SM on Oct 20, 2017, 12:05:08 AM
Story's generally need someone to root for, which means a human or something with human-like qualities. The Predator could fill that role, but ultimately it's a monster and likely becomes the lesser of evils rather than a hero of the story.
So you're saying that movies should have to have a "goody" for a movie premise to work???
Also, the story is following a Yautja event. Following this lone survivor on a planet full of Xenomorphs as he tries to escape it, is somehow lacking because he is a "monster" himself? Hmm...
I guess no fan or anyone rooted for "Wolf" in AVPR :/
Predators are monsters. They kill the people we're supposed to care about.
Some people may have rooted for Wolf, but that's more to do with the god-awful human characters in the flick. And even then he's still the lesser evil. And him being an idiot doesn't make it easy to root for him. He murdered - and skinned - a deputy and guy with a gun who didn't even have the faintest idea he was nearby; not exactly a 'hero'.
Quote from: SM on Oct 20, 2017, 12:35:10 AM
Predators are monsters. They kill the people we're supposed to care about.
Some people may have rooted for Wolf, but that's more to do with the god-awful human characters in the flick. And even then he's still the lesser evil. And him being an idiot doesn't make it easy to root for him. He murdered - and skinned - a deputy and guy with a gun who didn't even have the faintest idea he was nearby; not exactly a 'hero'.
Again... We can only root for "good guy"? This is an Yautja/Xenomorph event. So you think there are unwritten rules? ...k
Also for your own conclusion of Wolf and his actions, You should look at a youtube video from Mr H Reviews on Wolf and what his "role" was. Maybe you'll get a better understanding as to why he killed in un-honourable ways. (clue... It wasn't a hunt).
There are movies that follow evil characters, doing evil things, to other evil characters. But the Yautja are an interesting species. To those that don't read their comics and only know them through movies, this story would make them less one dimensional characters. But also, again, I have not given any details (yet) as to what the journey holds for this lone Yautja.
QuoteWe can only root for "good guy"?
That is generally the idea, yes. Rules can be bent or broken from time to time, but generally they're rules because they work over and over.
QuoteAlso for your own conclusion of Wolf and his actions, You should look at a youtube video from Mr H Reviews on Wolf and what his "role" was. Maybe you'll get a better understanding as to why he killed in un-honourable ways. (clue... It wasn't a hunt).
I don't need a Youtube video to tell me the bleeding obvious. Anyone who was paying the least amount of attention knows he wasn't there to hunt. Which makes Wolf exceedingly dumb for killing Ray and skinning him. Also leaving his technology behind, shooting the power station, and disarming himself to fight the PredAlien (may its name be forever cursed).
For someone that can turn invisible whose job was to get in and out quietly to clean up a mess - he sure was pretty crap at it.
QuoteThat is generally the idea, yes. Rules can be bent or broken from time to time, but generally they're rules because they work over and over.
You are the type that don't think anything else can work but a goody goody hero being the protagonist. I find that very one dimensional thinking really.
QuoteI don't need a Youtube video to tell me the bleeding obvious. Anyone who was paying the least amount of attention knows he wasn't there to hunt. Which makes Wolf exceedingly dumb for killing Ray and skinning him. Also leaving his technology behind, shooting the power station, and disarming himself to fight the PredAlien (may its name be forever cursed).
For someone that can turn invisible whose job was to get in and out quietly to clean up a mess - he sure was pretty crap at it.
Clearly you need to watch the video I have recommended. Because you'd know that the Yautja would do whatever it takes to remain a hidden entity overall. Even if that means taking out a small town.
But seriously, if you think that an "AVP" movie, that follows an event that has Aliens and Predators only, is not engaging enough, then that's your opinion. An opinion based on not knowing the details of my story mind. But I guess you like to jump to conclusions often.
Thanks for your constructive criticism(?)
QuoteYou are the type that don't think anything else can work but a goody goody hero being the protagonist. I find that very one dimensional thinking really.
That isn't what I said at all.
QuoteClearly you need to watch the video I have recommended. Because you'd know that the Yautja would do whatever it takes to remain a hidden entity overall. Even if that means taking out a small town.
I'll have a look if you link to it, but he did very little to remain a hidden entity overall. He started out okay with that blue solvent stuff, but undid that by killing Deputy Ray and skinning him. All he needed to do was cloak, and by the time anyone had a chance to check out Ray's story he would've been long gone and there wouldn't have been trace he was ever there.
QuoteBut seriously, if you think that an "AVP" movie, that follows an event that has Aliens and Predators only, is not engaging enough, then that's your opinion. An opinion based on not knowing the details of my story mind. But I guess you like to jump to conclusions often.
I can only offer an opinion on your vague idea, because that's all I have to go on thus far. You've not provided any details, so I can't really jump to any conclusions. Your idea is one that has been floated more times than I can remember and most people tend to fall into the camp of it not being able to sustain a feature length film.
If all you're after is praise, perhaps state that at the outset rather than asking for "Thoughts?"
I would like for the powers that be to try an Alien vs Predator movie sans the humans but to sell enough tickets it really does need marines.
I like the Yautja forced into survival mode idea...but I think there needs to be a few interesting human characters. The protagonist can't be the Yautja
Quote from: SM on Oct 20, 2017, 01:06:21 AM
QuoteWe can only root for "good guy"?
That is generally the idea, yes. Rules can be bent or broken from time to time, but generally they're rules because they work over and over.
Yeah... this is the case - by and large. I mean, of course there are always exceptions, but it's a safer bet to go with the unofficial rules of screen writing (as laid out by the late Blake Snyder).
I gotta say, though. It does sound intriguing, but its a tough ask even as a short story-- even if you're conveying it in the third person, how are we going to get across the emotions of the predator... it's values... it's character. I'd struggle with that (then again, I've never attempted to write anything like it.
Oddly, film might be an easier medium for the "no dialogue" (there've been caveman films with no dialogue - I'm thinking of one mental 70s one which I can't remember the name of) because the descriptors don't have to be literary like they do with a novel or short story.
Maybe the way to go is to write a treatment - that way, you don't get bogged down with having to be all literary and can just say it as it is - see how that goes?
I still recommend following the Blake Snyder Beat Sheet even for your treatment, though, as its a dead handy guide.
I think you might get away with it for a short film. Half an hour tops.
I don't know how sustainable it'd be for a feature.
Agreed - Like Dark Ages. Let the kickstarter commence!
Quote from: Ultimate Savage on Oct 19, 2017, 06:48:42 PM
Would you be interested in seeing an AVP movie, where it follows the actions of both species with no human interactions?
100%! But just to echo some of the earlier sentiments, it'd definitely need to be something shorter. I think it'd be hard to maintain over a feature length. Give me a 40/60 minutes long film like this and I'd be all over it!
I am writing the story in a short story format, that is intended to be seen as a feature. So that means it won't be novel size and will basically push the story forward more than dragging it out.
But even though I have said that there is no details in my original post and it's as if you're reading the back of a movie cover, people still talk about how it's too short? Do mini synopsis give away the whole stories on the back of movie covers now??? :/
If I was to go into detail here, the post would be 20+ pages long. I can go into some details if I was asked specifically but I really don't want to spoil it for when I finish it and eventually post it up somewhere. But don't expect a novel-type story. That's not my thing.
To clear up this "Predator Kills Aliens"... Well, since there are an uncountable amount of Xenomorphs compared to how many Yautja there could be, then I don't see why killing a load of Xenomorphs are a problem? In my story, Yautja do get killed.
To clear up "bad guys/good guys"... We all know that the Xenomorph are literally pure evil killing beings with no bargaining or reasoning abilities. The Yautja have those abilities and better moral traits that see them as a much lesser evil. In a story where Predators and Aliens are forefront of a movie, it makes sense to follow the more humanoid beings.
To clear up "Showing expressions and feelings"... You've seen the movies. The Yautja physically express themselves pretty well. They barely show any fear whatsoever. They take the hunt on. Seeing them in a different light would add a new dimension to the character(s) Having them on the reverse end and having to fight to survive rather than fight for trophies and pride.
The story; It's a movie set in the universe of "Aliens vs Predators". So my story is set in this universe. Not every event between the tow species have had "marines" involved or any form of human contact. So breaking the mould a little and having an event that brings these two together once again, would be different and fresh.
There will be some new things that haven't been seen on screen that I have added here and there. But like I have said, the mini synopsis is as basic as possible that gives away nothing.
Aliens simply seek to survive and propagate. I wouldn't describe that as "pure evil".
Quote from: SM on Oct 27, 2017, 09:09:19 PM
Aliens simply seek to survive and propagate. I wouldn't describe that as "pure evil".
They don't have sex and give births. They literally kill their hosts to be born. For every Xenomorph, I host had to die. You think that's not evil or evil by nature? Oh dear...
Many species rely on the deaths of other creatures in order to survive. Are they all "pure evil"?
Quote from: SM on Oct 27, 2017, 09:42:10 PM
Many species rely on the deaths of other creatures in order to survive. Are they all "pure evil"?
Are you seriously asking this question? Have you not seen all the movies? All the explanations? I feel you're trolling me on my thread. Which offers nothing to it. Moving on.
Genuine question.
They don't do what they do out of desire to be malicious or cause pain - as least as far as we know. They do it to survive.
To answer your other question - I've been studying these films almost as long as you've been alive.
Quote from: SM on Oct 27, 2017, 10:07:53 PM
Genuine question.
They don't do what they do out of desire to be malicious or cause pain - as least as far as we know. They do it to survive.
To answer your other question - I've been studying these films almost as long as you've been alive.
The difference between The Xenomorph and a wild animal, is that even a wild animal can be tamed and bargained with. The Xenomorph are bread for killing and taking over with no bargain skills or desire to. They kill whoever and whatever is not of their species. Inherently, they are made for evil intent, to do evil intent.
These are not just mindless animals. They have shown many times to use their "brains" in situations. They have no morality or empathy. I know these are "fictional character" but if these where the traits given to a human, they'd be classed as pure evil. I think I have explained this now. Which now, I'd like to get back on topic.
Ripley bargained with the Queen. As did Gediman.
However I'm not sure how that's relevant.
A lifeform that seeks to survive even to the detriment of other lifeforms isn't inherently evil.
The Queen was protecting the eggs in Aliens. There are the smartest of the Xenomorph. It's natural for the leader to be smarter. It's not bargaining at all. The Queen was going to kill Ripley regardless.
As I have already explained in my comment before, the Xenomorph are killing machines. They either kill you out-right or they kill you via impregnation. There is no middle ground. Bread for evil intent to commit evil actions. They are like a cancer. And you know cancer is evil by nature. There is nothing else to the Xenomorph than this. Which make them the most dangerous species of this universe.
As for my movie idea...
I am introducing a hybrid Xenomorph not yet been seen on screen but rarely used in the comics. Which leads to an excellent climax to the movie/story.
Cancer isn't evil in and of itself. It doesn't gave any intent beyond replicating itself. Aliens are much the same.
It doesn't really matter if the intended to kill Ripley. She was still able to bargain with it. 'Let me leave and I don't torch your eggs.' I would argue that Predators are more evil since they take pleasure in killing others.
As to your movie idea- how much have you actually written?
I think we can agree to disagree on the Xenomorph nature.
As for the story, I'm almost finished the basic rough version. I keep going back to add little bits of detail to make the story seem more plausible in and of itself (continuity). I have just started a better version and getting the intro in better order. Like I say; This isn't a novel-like write up. The story will be about 25-30 pages. Cutting out the type of things like; the look of the interior of a ship, it colours and all that. It's just focusing on pushing the story forward. That's how I have always written my stories. People I have shown my work to seem to like this style. So I have stuck with it.
Character will have "code names". Just like "Scar", "Wolf". Just to let you know of my Yautja protagonist, his name is "Razor Jaw".
Quote from: SM on Oct 27, 2017, 11:51:46 PM
Cancer isn't evil in and of itself. It doesn't gave any intent beyond replicating itself. Aliens are much the same.
It doesn't really matter if the intended to kill Ripley. She was still able to bargain with it. 'Let me leave and I don't torch your eggs.' I would argue that Predators are more evil since they take pleasure in killing others.
As to your movie idea- how much have you actually written?
It seems that the big chap was taking his time to kill Lambert even though she wasn't a threat to him, unlike Parker. The directing and editing of the scene show that he seems to have full conscience of what he does, and he's actually enjoy toying with her. But maybe he was an isolated case.
Quote from: Ultimate Savage on Oct 28, 2017, 12:14:05 AM
Character will have "code names". Just like "Scar", "Wolf". Just to let you know of my Yautja protagonist, his name is "Razor Jaw".
I'd just go for "Razor." Or "Skean" (which I just learned is a knife, but it sounded cool to me) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sgian-dubh
Quote from: Russ on Nov 03, 2017, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: Ultimate Savage on Oct 28, 2017, 12:14:05 AM
Character will have "code names". Just like "Scar", "Wolf". Just to let you know of my Yautja protagonist, his name is "Razor Jaw".
I'd just go for "Razor." Or "Skean" (which I just learned is a knife, but it sounded cool to me) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sgian-dubh
I did play with just "Razor". But my character has sort of hybrid mandibles where a set/row of teeth come from the bottom. Just making him look unique to be not just another look-a-like.
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Nov 03, 2017, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: SM on Oct 27, 2017, 11:51:46 PM
Cancer isn't evil in and of itself. It doesn't gave any intent beyond replicating itself. Aliens are much the same.
It doesn't really matter if the intended to kill Ripley. She was still able to bargain with it. 'Let me leave and I don't torch your eggs.' I would argue that Predators are more evil since they take pleasure in killing others.
As to your movie idea- how much have you actually written?
It seems that the big chap was taking his time to kill Lambert even though she wasn't a threat to him, unlike Parker. The directing and editing of the scene show that he seems to have full conscience of what he does, and he's actually enjoy toying with her. But maybe he was an isolated case.
How do you determine 'enjoyment' from the sound of Lambert screaming over the intercom?
Quote from: SM on Nov 04, 2017, 12:11:42 AM
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Nov 03, 2017, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: SM on Oct 27, 2017, 11:51:46 PM
Cancer isn't evil in and of itself. It doesn't gave any intent beyond replicating itself. Aliens are much the same.
It doesn't really matter if the intended to kill Ripley. She was still able to bargain with it. 'Let me leave and I don't torch your eggs.' I would argue that Predators are more evil since they take pleasure in killing others.
As to your movie idea- how much have you actually written?
It seems that the big chap was taking his time to kill Lambert even though she wasn't a threat to him, unlike Parker. The directing and editing of the scene show that he seems to have full conscience of what he does, and he's actually enjoy toying with her. But maybe he was an isolated case.
How do you determine 'enjoyment' from the sound of Lambert screaming over the intercom?
For me it's more the tail slowly going between her legs that makes me think this way. It's not necessary to do that in order to kill her, we can see he's taking his time. Some of the sexual ambiguity of the movie is well portrayed in that scene IMO.
Or it's like a predator slowly moving into an attack position before striking.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 04, 2017, 01:09:28 AM
Or it's like a predator slowly moving into an attack position before striking.
Yes it could be that too. Great scene anyway !
Quote from: SiL on Nov 04, 2017, 01:09:28 AM
Or it's like a predator slowly moving into an attack position before striking.
The Alien seems to often probe out with its' tail, it could also be more akin to a shark taking a bite out of something it's curious about. It certainly didn't seem to eat Lambert.
"Often"?
Indeed, we saw it do it once IIRC
Nice script, man. Just a movie about Alien and Predators are a good idea, as there are no human interference. I agree with Hicks that this movie should be a bit short.
If there is enough of a story to follow, I don't see a valid reason why it has to be "short". The way I have planned out the story, there is more than enough substance for a 2 hour feature.
Like I said; This is just a small event that brings the two species together. A story that is set in the AVP universe. But I feel there is enough to make it feel unique and not just a typical "vs" movie with no story behind it.
Yes the concept of a movie with only the Aliens and the Predators has been mentioned many times in the past. But has anyone really come up with a storyline to make the concept work? Well I strongly feel that I have.
There's short stories with just Aliens and Predators in the comics.
Emphasis on short.
If you want to write out a detailed beat board for us to look at, we'd be happy to give you more feedback.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 11, 2017, 03:49:54 AM
If you want to write out a detailed beat board for us to look at, we'd be happy to give you more feedback.
I'm still going over glossing the original story. Adding little changes to make things seem more plausible and not just "convenient" to push the story. Soon as I get my format done, I will be looking to post it wherever fans will see it most.
As for it being a short story and not enough for a movie, well there are movies where there is no dialogue and you watch the struggles play out through the physical acting. But in the way I write out my stories, it's hard to judge the pacing of the story. So I'm actively looking for a partner to help me script the concept. So there's bigger plans in the works.
Quote from: SM on Nov 08, 2017, 10:35:11 PM
"Often"?
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Nov 10, 2017, 11:21:11 PM
Indeed, we saw it do it once IIRC
Fair enough, I swear I remember it happening more often and didn't it happen in the shower scene in Covenant?
Quote from: Kurai on Nov 18, 2017, 06:52:53 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 08, 2017, 10:35:11 PM
"Often"?
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Nov 10, 2017, 11:21:11 PM
Indeed, we saw it do it once IIRC
Fair enough, I swear I remember it happening more often and didn't it happen in the shower scene in Covenant?
Sorry i forgot about that one.