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This comes from a list the magazine published of some of his most iconic shots from across his body of films, and for Alien 3 he was asked about this shot in particular:

Quote"The one shot that Fox was happy to put in the trailer: the Alien's filing-cabinet drawer opening on Sigourney [Weaver]'s face. I always knew we wanted to do it and it never looked the way I wanted it to. I wanted to light all behind her. It should have been two shapes in silhouette, we should have had more coverage of it, and we didn't - mostly because we were spending all our f**king time trying to shoot plates for the rod puppet side of the thing. I think we had an hour-and-a-half to get that. But it's powerful, because it's a powerful idea."

I couldn't find a scan of the article itself, so I had to source the quote from this video (https://youtu.be/75SQy8qc9-U).

I'll see if I can find a copy of Empire tomorrow when I'm out.

Wow, this feels like the most he's ever said about the film since it was released, right?

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/08102023_01.jpg)

everyone knows that Fincher hates the movie. it wasn't realized the way he wanted it to be. with all due respect to Fincher, he should not forget that he was chosen for Seven because of his directing work and his implementation of the
dark mood of Alien 3.  (source: making of seven)
I personally like Alien 3 a lot,
The assembly cut in particular is an absolute compensation for fans of the film.
Let everyone else continue to complain about how bad the movie is while praising really bad films to the sky

listen to the rex picket podcast. then you will  understand  why he hates the movie.

I understand that he hates the film because of its many problems. Initially, Fincher had a wonderful vision but he wasn't allowed to implement it. Additionally, he was reportedly fired from the set multiple times. It's just that there are a lot of reports on the internet about Alien 3 that say:
"This film is so bad, even the director hates it!" and that's just stupid and shows bad reporting by idiots

Even if the film didn't turn out the way Fincher would have liked, at least the assembly cut is still a great film with a dark mood and a cold hopelessness, a brilliant soundtrack, and a cool alien and set design

The assembly cut is just a longer bad movie.

I also saw the video from Alien Theory, but nice that Fincher at least talks about it!

It's nice to see Fincher opening up about Alien 3 a little. I know that he went through hell during its production, but I always thought that he should be proud that despite all the shit he experienced, he still managed to make good, distinct, moody and atmospheric movie. This experience also helped him become the director he is now. It surely have strenghten his will and helped to develope his style.

I think he doesn't really avoid talking about Alien³. Over the past 30 years he commented on Alien³ over all these things in random interviews. Alien³ comes more often up in interviews than most of his other previous movies. Even with his late 1992 interview he broke a common myth that he hated Alien³:

"Fincher and his screenwriter Larry Ferguson set their ambitions slightly higher. 'I want people to realise that I'm not embarrassed by the film, there are certain things in it I really like. At least we were taking some chances.' "

and

"You know,' he concludes, 'if I make 10 shitty movies, I'll deserve the flak and if I go on to make 10 great ones, this'll probably be looked upon as my first bungled masterpiece.'"

source: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/interview-a-real-horror-show-the-filming-of-alien-3-was-a-nightmare-for-its-director-david-fincher-mark-burman-reports-1541578.html

I do think however he doesn't care as much over Alien³ as we do. I mean other than the drama, it wasn't even a project he was involved in from start to finish. It's a difference to work years on a project or finish someone elses project and have very limited influence over it. Alien³ was already weeks into pre production when he signed on, going in to film an incomplete script which he didn't liked and then leaving early in post. Most of the gist we already got out of him, what do we really want to know from him at that point?

This experience also helped him become the director he is now. It surely have strenghten his will and helped to develope his style.
@jacobo1122:

that's how you should see it.
Of course, we don't know what really happened behind the scenes.
The film shows Fincher's unique and, above all, uncompromising style. Alien 3 wasn't a failure at the box office either - overall it grossed just as much as the first two entries.
A really good film which, under different conditions and Fincher being solely responsible, could have become an absolute masterpiece.

The Assembly Cut's just a better good film.

So you say.

Assembly Cut all the way.

Quote from: SM on Mar 11, 2014, 05:31:05 AMObjectively - Alien3 fails in terms of the badly written setup, is populated almost entirely by people would wouldn't care for if we could tell them apart, the main protagonist is behind the audience for most of the first half, the visual effects are sub par.  This applies to both cuts.  The Assembly is just a slower and more redundant version of the Theatrical Cut.

Subjectively - I dig them in spite of the myriad flaws.

'Alien 3' is fine art. I'll never understand the hate. We're all watching the same movie, but we're definitely seeing (and feeling) something very different. I'm usually damn good at putting myself into another's mindset/seeing other perspectives, but this one I just find bizarre (always have). Love this movie from the first time I saw it back in '93 (even in its theatrical cut) - and it's still my go-to if I'm in an Alien mood (and I'm always in an Alien mood) 🤣

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 25, 2021, 02:08:23 AMAlien 3 was just boring.  A well-crafted film in many ways, but the story had no suspense.

I can sooner understand the viewpoints of some truly loathsome people than I can the dislike for it by totally normal people.  So I get you Acid Reign.

Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Oct 09, 2023, 10:27:58 PM'Alien 3' is fine art. I'll never understand the hate.

I love the movie, but it's a mess. Acknowledging its many flaws isn't hate.

The only people who hate it are usually upset by Hicks and Newt and the lack of action, because it denied then what they wanted from the film.

Most people who dislike it just dislike it like normal people.

---

Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 09, 2023, 10:43:16 PM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 25, 2021, 02:08:23 AMAlien 3 was just boring.  A well-crafted film in many ways, but the story had no suspense.

This is the biggest thing for me. The first half is really just boring. Yeah, plenty of mood, vibe, atmosphere, whatever. But there's no tension, no suspense. We're so far ahead of the characters and just waiting for them to catch up.

Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Oct 09, 2023, 09:27:35 PMAssembly Cut all the way.

Honestly, I can't understand why so many people say that Assembly Cut saved Alien 3 for them. Sure, it has nice additional scenes, some things makes a little more sense, but essentially it's the same movie, just longer. If someone didn't like Alien 3 I doubt that AC could change their mind so drasticcly. Well, maybe for a lot of people AC was first rewatch after long time with different mindset, and they would appreciate the movie even if it was theatrical version. I usually pick up theatrical version, it just has better flow for me. And I never could get over ox instead of dog, it just doesn't fit well. But I'm not saying AC is Bad or anything, I like to check it out once in a while too.

Quote from: jacobo1122 on Oct 11, 2023, 06:33:06 AM

Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Oct 09, 2023, 09:27:35 PMAssembly Cut all the way.

Honestly, I can't understand why so many people say that Assembly Cut saved Alien 3 for them. Sure, it has nice additional scenes, some things makes a little more sense, but essentially it's the same movie, just longer. If someone didn't like Alien 3 I doubt that AC could change their mind so drasticcly. Well, maybe for a lot of people AC was first rewatch after long time with different mindset, and they would appreciate the movie even if it was theatrical version. I usually pick up theatrical version, it just has better flow for me. And I never could get over ox instead of dog, it just doesn't fit well. But I'm not saying AC is Bad or anything, I like to check it out once in a while too.

Well to be fair, I liked Alien 3 before I watched the Assembly Cut. It's just the Assembly Cut, to me, felt more complete and comprehensive in comparison to the original cut.

---

In other words, it just gives me more of what I want. But that's me, personally.

I also liked Alien 3 back in 1992, with some reservations of course.
I bought the Cinefex edition and then read about a number of scenes that were shot but not used.
When the quadrilogy box with alternative versions of all the films was announced in 2002, I was totally thrilled.
After 17 years I could watch Alien 3 for the first time with the additional scenes.
In my opinion, this really enhances the film. And yes, I know people who didn't really like the film at first, but did like the assembly cut.
Of course there are plenty of people who think the film is shit one way or another

Quote from: Neila on Oct 11, 2023, 12:39:29 PMOf course there are plenty of people who think the film is shit one way or another

I wouldn't say it's shit overall, but the aspects of it that are shit are still shit no matter which version you're watching.

Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Oct 09, 2023, 10:27:58 PM'Alien 3' is fine art. I'll never understand the hate. We're all watching the same movie, but we're definitely seeing (and feeling) something very different. I'm usually damn good at putting myself into another's mindset/seeing other perspectives, but this one I just find bizarre (always have). Love this movie from the first time I saw it back in '93 (even in its theatrical cut) - and it's still my go-to if I'm in an Alien mood (and I'm always in an Alien mood) 🤣

If you don't understand the hate, you haven't been paying attention.  People have been explaining why they hate it - right or wrong - for 30 years.

I understand why people might hate it, I adore both Alien & Aliens, but if I had to choose a favourite, it would be Alien 3. Just love how Fincher brought the world to life, through the cinematography, use of the camera, gorgeous score by Elliot Goldenthal.

It's not difficult to understand why people might hate it, when there's so many issues.

I personally don't find any of the issues even remotely hate-worthy.

For me Alien 3 is very much a vibe movie. If You just feel it, its Atmosphere, ten things like its plot and problems wouldn't be so important to You.

Sure, it's very atmospheric. But it's not hard to see why most people would prefer to feel like something is actually happening.

Alien is rightfully considered the slowest of the films, but everything leading up to the chest burster, though taking its time, is a constantly unravelling mystery.

"Where are we? Why are we awake? What will we find? What is that dead alien? What's down that hole? What came out of the egg? What will happen to Kane now? Why is Ash so weird?"

We know all of the answers in Alien3 40 minutes before everyone else. It would've worked better - although been much more of a risk - if the Alien wasn't seen in any form until it grabbed Clemens. Then there'd at least be some sort of real tension.

Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2023, 04:37:11 AMSure, it's very atmospheric. But it's not hard to see why most people would prefer to feel like something is actually happening.

Alien is rightfully considered the slowest of the films, but everything leading up to the chest burster, though taking its time, is a constantly unravelling mystery.

"Where are we? Why are we awake? What will we find? What is that dead alien? What's down that hole? What came out of the egg? What will happen to Kane now? Why is Ash so weird?"

We know all of the answers in Alien3 40 minutes before everyone else. It would've worked better - although been much more of a risk - if the Alien wasn't seen in any form until it grabbed Clemens. Then there'd at least be some sort of real tension.

As much as I love Alien 3, this is an issue that I actually do have with the film. The lack of mystery and build up. Imo, it probably would've been more interesting if the Alien came from the planet rather than the Sulaco.

I think it not appearing until Clemens dies, might be taking it over board, but I do think cutting every scene with the creature before and after the funeral until then would indeed be an inarguably vast improvement.

Despite some amazing looking stuff, in the Boggs and Rains attack scene, it is especially superfluous. I feel similarly about the death of Murphy but even more so.

But certainly I would sooner lose all of that than Clemens discovering Ripley on the beach, and the Assembly opening in general.

Do you keep Murphy looking at Spike or not in this case? Or the scene with Babe but remove the Facehugger shot? Or maybe keep both, create a situation where, you are left guessing which animal actually got impregnated until the funeral. The chestburster scene I would be most reluctant to lose. That and yes the Alien being captured subplot, even if it would be best to trim some scenes after that, particularly the one with Ripley and Dillon in the cell before Morse comes along you can lose entirely.

I am truthfully much more precious about all the additional little characters moments in the Special Edition than any of the big stuff aside from the alternate opening.

Spoiler

I also think we are better without Vincent's many scenes of characterisation and identification by David, painful but it's necessary.

[close]

How much more interesting would it be if Boggs and Rain inadvertently found an Alien egg deep within the complex?

Not at all frankly, just confused, and the "with us all the way" just before Golic shows up, raving mad you lose which definitely installs a real sense of dread.

Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Oct 12, 2023, 07:29:03 AMHow much more interesting would it be if Boggs and Rain inadvertently found an Alien egg deep within the complex?

Would've sped things up because the characters would have proof there was an Alien running around rather than spending another 20 minutes telling Ripley to be quiet.

I much prefer your suggestion, by a mile.

I don't know, because I really don't like the egg in the Sulaco because that's pretty contrived. And that sense of dread would still be there provided it's done correctly, because towards the end, it turns more comical and the lack of suspense does kind of grade on one.

I have no idea what you mean exactly, the suggestion means removing that scene as well, it being on board the Sulaco's not contrived it is totally plausible, the manner it's on board as we view it is the issue.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Oct 12, 2023, 07:55:15 AMI have no idea what you mean exactly, his suggestion means removing that scene as well, it being on board the Sulaco's not contrived, the manner it's on board as we view it is the issue.

Oh I didn't read that part. My bad. I still don't like it on the Sulaco, regardless. Because watching Alien 3 right after Aliens.. I need a really good fansplaination for that.

It also really undermines the whole heroic self sacrifice thing if you find this creature everywhere you stumble.

It's still undermined in the context of Alien Resurrection and any other Alien EU, whether you consider them canon, is up to you. I mean, I say that, and I'm still all for the heroic sacrifice, but there were so many ways that could've been circumvented...

Also gonna add.. really glad ACM isn't canon.

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Now I'm just lamenting Neill Blomkamp's Alien 5, as ridiculous as that sounded.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Oct 12, 2023, 07:20:00 AMI think it not appearing until Clemens dies, might be taking it over board, but I do think cutting every scene with the creature before and after the funeral until then would indeed be an inarguably vast improvement.

Nope, yeet the bambi burster too. The film will be better for it, even if it is a brilliant scene.

The only hint I'd leave is Babe taken into the abattoir (without the reveal of the super facehugger) or Spike's facial wounds. That tells the audience why the Alien looks different. Babe would be better, as there's no obvious signs of an Alien, but Spike does garner more sympathy. Let the audience realise what happened later.

Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2023, 08:25:55 AM

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Oct 12, 2023, 07:20:00 AMI think it not appearing until Clemens dies, might be taking it over board, but I do think cutting every scene with the creature before and after the funeral until then would indeed be an inarguably vast improvement.

Nope, yeet the bambi burster too. The film will be better for it, even if it is a brilliant scene.

The only hint I'd leave is Babe taken into the abattoir (without the reveal of the super facehugger) or Spike's facial wounds. That tells the audience why the Alien looks different. Babe would be better, as there's no obvious signs of an Alien, but Spike does garner more sympathy. Let the audience realise what happened later.

I'm all for this.

I just got my hands on the 5.1 audio so I can finally clean the funeral scene up. Might even have a rough edit available if anyone wants to preview it by the end of the month.

Well, now I'm just kind of imagining this pseudo murder mystery with a twist at the end, where Ripley thinks it might be an Alien but isn't quite sure.

Wish we lived in the reality where they used both, but otherwise followed your suggestion maybe then the topic here might be, "did it come from the dog or ox?" in the place of the Egg on the Sulaco thread.

Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Oct 12, 2023, 08:35:59 AMWell, now I'm just kind of imagining this pseudo murder mystery with a twist at the end, where Ripley thinks it might be an Alien but isn't quite sure.

Kind of. When you strip out the Alien before Ripley encounters it, you're in the same uneasy space she is. There's all these signs that point to an Alien being there, but she just can't prove it -- and neither can the audience. Then she talks to Bishop and confirms it, and we're just waiting for it to finally appear.

Drops the time to the Bishop talk to about 35 minutes rather than 40+.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Oct 12, 2023, 08:38:29 AMWish we lived in the reality where they used both, but otherwise followed your suggestion maybe then the topic here might be, "did it come from the dog or ox?" in the place of the Egg on the Sulaco thread.

Easy enough to add both. But wouldn't really add much to the narrative. It's fairly irrelevant outside of it's not a human.

Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2023, 08:40:49 AM

Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Oct 12, 2023, 08:35:59 AMWell, now I'm just kind of imagining this pseudo murder mystery with a twist at the end, where Ripley thinks it might be an Alien but isn't quite sure.

Kind of. When you strip out the Alien before Ripley encounters it, you're in the same uneasy space she is. There's all these signs that point to an Alien being there, but she just can't prove it -- and neither can the audience. Then she talks to Bishop and confirms it, and we're just waiting for it to finally appear.

Drops the time to the Bishop talk to about 35 minutes rather than 40+.

That's exactly it. That's exactly what I'm thinking.

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We still kind of have that in there, but it still shows us scenes of the Alien that are parallel to that. Be more powerful if they weren't there.

I think we are all in agreement on this honestly, I wonder how Terry Rawlings and David Fincher did not see it, I do love Clemens on the beach finding Ripley though and I am heartbroken it is excised in any version.

Who says they didn't?

Quite a few early scripts and edits played with delaying arrival of the Alien. They might have thought of it.

Bur it wouldn't have mattered. It's really easy to sit here 30 years later and do it when there's nothing to risk, but like hell Fox were going to consider a movie with no trace of an Alien in it for over half an hour.

Did they not the first time?

It is about half an hour until we see the Derelict and another half an hour until we see the Alien itself.

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Oct 12, 2023, 10:10:14 AMDid they not the first time?

It is about half an hour until we see the Derelict and another half an hour until we see the Alien itself.

Facehugger is about 20-30 minutes in, with significant tension and mystery leading to its reveal.

People like to forget that the early stages of the Alien lifecycle are both still the Alien, and originally one of their most remarkable features.

I, too, love that Clemens on the beach, finding Ripley. I love that. And the film could've started from that moment rather than in space. Add to the mystery.

35 minutes in, my mistake.

Still, Alien 3 would take 35 minutes to SAY there's an Alien, and another to show any of it.

QuoteAccording to this, the Facehugger's thirty minutes in:

https://wheresthejump.com/jump-scares-in-alien-1979/

As you pointed out, I only saw now.

Yes.

But also keep in mind that's the first movie. By the third we're expecting the thing a bit sooner.

I don't feel it's controversial to suggest a company that wasted tens of millions on unfinished scripts and half built sets wouldn't want to take any more risks than they already were.

No, not at all, just wondering could you cut out half an hour before Doctor Clemens bites it? Or even get it down to forty minutes?

I have to be completely honest, I probably wouldn't change anything about the theatrical cut or the Assembly Cut. At a push, if I *had* to nitpick, I'd say the ox-burster scene feels flat compared with how powerful the dogburster scene is. If I were to ask for an additional cut of the movie to be added to a boxset as a bonus, it'd be a finalised version of the workprint. Nothin more, nothing less.😊

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Oct 12, 2023, 10:26:12 AMNo, not at all, the question's just could you cut out half an hour before Clemens bites it? Or even get it down to forty minutes?

You lose about ten minutes of the movie  cutting the Alien beforehand, so Clemens bites it around the 45 mark.

And that's using the AC.

Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2023, 10:41:41 AM

Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Oct 12, 2023, 10:26:12 AMNo, not at all, the question's just could you cut out half an hour before Clemens bites it? Or even get it down to forty minutes?

You lose about ten minutes of the movie  cutting the Alien beforehand, so Clemens bites it around the 45 mark.

And that's using the AC.

Would I be right in assuming you aren't a fan of 'Aliens: Special Edition'? 😅

I prefer the theatrical, but it has nothing to do with how long it takes to get to the Aliens.

I'm kinda backwards. I actually like the first hour of the movie more than the back half. I dig that tension and I'm in an Alien movie so I already know there's an Alien in it. Removing those wouldn't have made it better for me, you just get to the bad parts faster  :laugh:

I wish we saw more of the outside Planet with perhaps a secondary Prison/Facility ( would only need to be a few hundred meters away on the other side of the beach etc). It would give us a break in the scenery and also another plot thread (Maybe there's different prisoners in the other cell, maybe the Alien wipes all of them out first? etc etc) 

One other thing, being a Brit (Scot), I never got the "who are these guys" thing since we knew who all the actors were in the UK ( well the majority of them). I totally get that point though.

Quote from: Highland on Oct 12, 2023, 01:29:24 PMI'm kinda backwards. I actually like the first hour of the movie more than the back half. I dig that tension and I'm in an Alien movie so I already know there's an Alien in it. Removing those wouldn't have made it better for me, you just get to the bad parts faster  :laugh:

I wish we saw more of the outside Planet with perhaps a secondary Prison/Facility ( would only need to be a few hundred meters away on the other side of the beach etc). It would give us a break in the scenery and also another plot thread (Maybe there's different prisoners in the other cell, maybe the Alien wipes all of them out first? etc etc) 

One other thing, being a Brit (Scot), I never got the "who are these guys" thing since we knew who all the actors were in the UK ( well the majority of them). I totally get that point though.

I'm with you regarding not removing scenes; It's no mystery to the audience that there's an Alien (the movie's title was a dead giveaway 😂 lol) but joking aside- the audience knew exactly what had went down at Hadley's Hope in Aliens before the cast did, it didn't hurt that movie either. From Ripley's point of view in Alien 3, she had worries/suspicions, but wasn't sure until Bishop confirmed it... as we saw. To me, if we'd had the revelation of Ripley being impregnated but no benefit of the opening sequence, that'd be a whole brand new can of worms beyond "how did the egg get on the Sulaco".

The mystery of 'Alien' (1979) was a one-time-use kinda deal, you cant repeat it without radically changing the monster - and if you do try and do that, look no further than the threads here to see how it'd be received. Prometheus kept you guessing (even after the credits rolled) and everyone wanted a detailed explanation of *exactly* how the pathogen worked and was unsatisfied with it not being more black-and-white, despite the theme of the movie being a play on humans stealing fire from the gods (playing with something we aren't *meant* to understand) we got the same chaotic confusion the characters did. It didn't seem to help in altering opinions 😅

For the life of me, I will never understand why they insisted on setting Alien 3 immediately after Aliens and shoehorning a stowaway on the Sulaco.  The comic did it better with the ten year time jump long after the Sulaco made it safely back to Earth.

I'm not sure how you could re-edit to convincingly tease the audience as to whether there's an Alien running around or not when the movie has Alien in the title.

It's the idea of being on the same page as the protagonist, that's all.

We know an Alien's coming in all the films but the fun's in playing along with the charade.

It's also chiefly why I think the prequels don't work as well as they should do, we do not respect the characters, their own internal logic, we think we could do better, so it is just not as fun to play along with them.

Quote from: SM on Oct 12, 2023, 06:23:17 PMI'm not sure how you could re-edit to convincingly tease the audience as to whether there's an Alien running around or not when the movie has Alien in the title.

It's not about teasing the possibility of there being/not being an Alien, it's following Ripley's perspective.

We all know there are going to be Aliens in Aliens, but the theatrical cut works perfectly fine  revealing the things to the audience and characters simultaneously.

Scrubbing the Alien before Ripley sees it puts us in her shoes and lets things like talking to Bishop hold actual weight rather than be "no shit, we knew that half an hour ago".

Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2023, 07:44:37 PM

Quote from: SM on Oct 12, 2023, 06:23:17 PMI'm not sure how you could re-edit to convincingly tease the audience as to whether there's an Alien running around or not when the movie has Alien in the title.

It's not about teasing the possibility of there being/not being an Alien, it's following Ripley's perspective.

We all know there are going to be Aliens in Aliens, but the theatrical cut works perfectly fine  revealing the things to the audience and characters simultaneously.

Scrubbing the Alien before Ripley sees it puts us in her shoes and lets things like talking to Bishop hold actual weight rather than be "no shit, we knew that half an hour ago".

It's a great music queue though when she realizes the truth...

Which would be even better if it was actually a revelation.

Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2023, 08:59:31 PMWhich would be even better if it was actually a revelation.

Meanwhile in an alternate universe;

AvPGalaxy Thread topic - 'How did the alien get inside Ripley?' page 4957; "it was Bishop!!" "No no, she was STUNG by the queen in the power loader fight"  🤣

Meanwhile in an alternate universe;

Ripley meets the Space Jockeys, discovers the origins of Aliens, Space Jockeys aren't the creators after all, etc etc, Earth gets taken over, etc.

Meanwhile in an alternate universe;

There's a wooden planet, where bizarre rituals involving the Alien take place, inhabited by a theocratic society of virgin albino giants, who have lost the ability to reproduce by sexual means. There are abandoned biomechanical ships orbiting the planet. They don't know how to use them though, coz they didn't make them. :)

(https://s6.gifyu.com/images/S6cA3.gif)

Quote from: SM on Oct 09, 2023, 08:43:43 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykl10bWumQI

I'm glad I sat through the whole video. Interesting points that I haven't heard brought up.

Personally don't think the film gets any better not seeing the Alien or seeing the Alien or going with Ripley or not going with Ripley. We are supposed to be like "these guys are screwed" and I think Weaver does a good job of knowing what's about to happen, but still making it a revelation when Bishop tells her. She's incredible in A3.

I think the set up in A3 is perfect personally, it only starts to go down hill once Andrews pops it (which TBH is a crappy scene).

Weirdly , in all 3 of the Alien films (rez doesn't exist) , I think I like and have watched the first half's more than the second half's. Those are all the best bits of the films for me.

When you discover the story along with the characters, it's easier to become immersed into the story and connect with the characters emotionally. Their discoveries are our discoveries, their revelations our revelations.

When Ripley searches out Bishop, she's searching for answers we already have. It's a box-checking exercise on the path to Ripley playing catchup. But if we didn't know everything ahead of time, we'd be much more invested in her finding him and getting those answers -- because we need those answers just as much as she does. Her discovering those answers is us discovering those answers.

It might not make the overall film better, but it would give more momentum to the first half.

Quote from: SiL on Oct 13, 2023, 03:25:42 AMWhen you discover the story along with the characters, it's easier to become immersed into the story and connect with the characters emotionally. Their discoveries are our discoveries, their revelations our revelations.

When Ripley searches out Bishop, she's searching for answers we already have. It's a box-checking exercise on the path to Ripley playing catchup. But if we didn't know everything ahead of time, we'd be much more invested in her finding him and getting those answers -- because we need those answers just as much as she does. Her discovering those answers is us discovering those answers.

It might not make the overall film better, but it would give more momentum to the first half.

I just don't get why it would give it anymore momentum over just cutting down the runtime. In Alien we don't know what it is, in Aliens Cameron obviously introduced the Queen, but here I don't see how finding out about the Alien later with Ripley makes any more interesting, it's not a murder mystery.

I'm thinking it probably makes the movie worse if anything. We are not travelling anywhere (space), we are not watching any weird events unfold (Derelict space ship), we just hanging about with Bald guys for an Alien to pop out after 45 minutes.

Thumbs down from me.

If that's the case, then the Bishop scene should be removed since it's regurgitating everything we already know.

Quote from: Highland on Oct 13, 2023, 04:42:36 AMI just don't get why it would give it anymore momentum over just cutting down the runtime.

Because we become invested in the answers she gets and the clues she finds, because they're also answers and clues for us.

Rather than watching someone work out a puzzle you already solved, you solve it with them. It gets you more invested in the story.

Quotebut here I don't see how finding out about the Alien later with Ripley makes any more interesting, it's not a murder mystery.

It's an Alien movie. We know there's an Alien. It's about watching the clues unravel, piecing it together the way Ripley does and actually experiencing that journey with her.

That's what makes Aliens so compelling as a sequel, and one of the reasons cutting the Hadley's Hope scene works quite well. It's called Aliens. There are obviously Aliens. But feeling Ripley's unease, watching the marines slowly discover the signs, all leading up to the facehuggers in the labs, takes us on the journey the characters are on.

Quotewe are not watching any weird events unfold

Except we would be, if we took the Alien out.

The EEV crashes -- why? We see acid in there. Is Newt harbouring an Alien? No. We see an injured dog, or a dead ox -- what happened? Murphy explodes in a tunnel, with more acid damage -- did he find an Alien? Ripley wants to talk to Bishop, what will she discover when she does? It was with us all the way, there was a fire in the subflooring. So there is an Alien -- but where? Golic returns from the tunnels covered in blood, raving about a dragon that feeds on minds.

And then it comes out of the ceiling and kills Clemens, and now everybody is on the same page, and we can start dealing with the thing.

Having the Alien running around in between is what makes those beats flat and lacking intrigue and mystery. We only think it's boring because, the way it's presented in the film, it is. But it doesn't have to be.

Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Oct 13, 2023, 05:38:23 AMIf that's the case, then the Bishop scene should be removed since it's regurgitating everything we already know.

how do we know beforehand that the company knows everything?

tag:

not to be taken seriously. and off topic. lol

Quote from: SiL on Oct 13, 2023, 05:54:49 AM

Quote from: Highland on Oct 13, 2023, 04:42:36 AMI just don't get why it would give it anymore momentum over just cutting down the runtime.

Because we become invested in the answers she gets and the clues she finds, because they're also answers and clues for us.

Rather than watching someone work out a puzzle you already solved, you solve it with them. It gets you more invested in the story.

Quotebut here I don't see how finding out about the Alien later with Ripley makes any more interesting, it's not a murder mystery.

It's an Alien movie. We know there's an Alien. It's about watching the clues unravel, piecing it together the way Ripley does and actually experiencing that journey with her.

That's what makes Aliens so compelling as a sequel, and one of the reasons cutting the Hadley's Hope scene works quite well. It's called Aliens. There are obviously Aliens. But feeling Ripley's unease, watching the marines slowly discover the signs, all leading up to the facehuggers in the labs, takes us on the journey the characters are on.

Quotewe are not watching any weird events unfold

Except we would be, if we took the Alien out.

The EEV crashes -- why? We see acid in there. Is Newt harbouring an Alien? No. We see an injured dog, or a dead ox -- what happened? Murphy explodes in a tunnel, with more acid damage -- did he find an Alien? Ripley wants to talk to Bishop, what will she discover when she does? It was with us all the way, there was a fire in the subflooring. So there is an Alien -- but where? Golic returns from the tunnels covered in blood, raving about a dragon that feeds on minds.

And then it comes out of the ceiling and kills Clemens, and now everybody is on the same page, and we can start dealing with the thing.

Having the Alien running around in between is what makes those beats flat and lacking intrigue and mystery. We only think it's boring because, the way it's presented in the film, it is. But it doesn't have to be.

Clues that we already know the answer to anyway in detail, there is no puzzle. In Alien we don't know anything which makes it crazy , In Aliens we know things, but we don't know where the colonists are, we don't know "what's laying these eggs" so we are going from A to B there.

I don't know what the surprise is about in A3 following Ripley on a journey to find out exactly what we know is going to happen.

The surprise in A3 is that she has the Alien inside her which isn't hinted at really.

I get what you guys are saying, I just don't agree (for me) it makes the slightest bit difference.

Seeing the Dog/cycle of the Alien is one of the best bits  :o

I think what you guys are saying only works if it's not Ripley, but it is Ripley and we know that she knows some bad shit is about to go down!

I already gave myself the explanation of how the egg got on the Sulaco:
The queen no longer had an egg sac, but it could also be that there was something like a residue of semen on her abdomen, which dripped under the floor bars during the fight with Ripley and developed into an egg there.
Otherwise this scene wouldn't make any sense to me.
Where the other facehugger comes from is a little more difficult to explain.
 It could be that he was on the dropship and got to the Sulaco and the Eev.
If you hadn't shown an egg, everything would have been a little easier and you would have assumed that the huggers had gotten on board via the dropship like the queen.
On the other hand, the egg down there looked creepy and the way the facehugger stretches to yawn also :D

Quote from: Neila on Oct 13, 2023, 10:02:17 AMI already gave myself the explanation of how the egg got on the Sulaco:
The queen no longer had an egg sac, but it could also be that there was something like a residue of semen on her abdomen, which dripped under the floor bars during the fight with Ripley and developed into an egg there.

Like this?

Quote from: Local Trouble on May 03, 2023, 04:34:19 AMChatGPT has written it all out:

QuoteINT. SULACO HANGAR BAY - NIGHT

Ripley, inside the Power Loader exoskeleton, battles the furious Queen Alien. The Queen, having torn herself free from her egg sac, has a gaping wound in her abdomen, with her innards partially exposed.

As the intense fight continues, a microscopic, undeveloped egg is unknowingly dislodged from the Queen's abdominal cavity. It drops onto the grated floor, virtually invisible to the naked eye, appearing as nothing more than a tiny, harmless blob of slime.

INT. SULACO SUBFLOORING - CONTINUOUS

The minuscule, slimy egg slips through the grates and sticks to the subflooring beneath the hangar bay. There, hidden from sight, it slowly starts to congeal and take root. The resilient Xenomorph life form begins its development process, growing and expanding as it clings to the floor.

INT. SULACO HANGAR BAY - NIGHT

Ripley, still engaged in her life-or-death struggle with the Queen, manages to open the airlock. The vacuum of space sucks the Queen Alien out of the Sulaco, leaving Ripley victorious but completely unaware of the danger that remains hidden on the ship.

INT. SULACO SUBFLOORING - ONE WEEK LATER

The once-microscopic egg has grown to full size, pulsating with life. Unseen by the crew and still attached to the subflooring, the egg awaits its opportunity to unleash the next Xenomorph nightmare.

As the Sulaco continues its journey, the egg senses the presence of potential hosts nearby. It slowly opens, revealing the Facehugger within, poised to strike.

FADE OUT.

Quote from: Highland on Oct 13, 2023, 09:57:37 AMClues that we already know the answer to anyway in detail, there is no puzzle.

We don't know the details if we don't see the Alien.

If you don't see the opening, how do you know why the EEV crashed,

If you don't see the hugger,  how do you know where the acid on Newt's tube comes from?

If you didn't see the facehugger, why did the ox die?

If you don't see the Alien spit acid in Murphy's face, how do you know where the acid mark came from the tunnels?

Everything you're saying is reinforcing the problem; these questions are boring because we know precisely their cause as we watch the film. Remove the Alien, and they're all little mysteries that build a dread towards the inevitable reveal.

Quote from: SiL on Oct 13, 2023, 10:36:22 AM

Quote from: Highland on Oct 13, 2023, 09:57:37 AMClues that we already know the answer to anyway in detail, there is no puzzle.

We don't know the details if we don't see the Alien.

If you don't see the opening, how do you know why the EEV crashed,

If you don't see the hugger,  how do you know where the acid on Newt's tube comes from?

If you didn't see the facehugger, why did the ox die?

If you don't see the Alien spit acid in Murphy's face, how do you know where the acid mark came from the tunnels?

Everything you're saying is reinforcing the problem; these questions are boring because we know precisely their cause as we watch the film. Remove the Alien, and they're all little mysteries that build a dread towards the inevitable reveal.

But I do know. I don't know where the colonists are til Hudson finds them, I don't know that an Alien is about to fly out of someone's chest. I absolutely 100% know that an Alien is about to show up.

Girl just went through two massive traumas involving Acid Blood and when she finds Acid stains  thinks it "might" be an Alien. Id be so fast outta there.

What you're describing works if it's Predators , where I actually do have to find out WTF is going on with them,but not for Alien 3. It would have to be a completely different character for that to work for me *shrugs

Seems like a fix for a problem that doesn't exist with the movie.

Obviously you know one will show up. It's an Alien movie. Nobody is suggesting otherwise.

But how did it get there? What's it doing?

Ripley sees the acid and we all think facehugger. She has the autopsy done
- nothing. Now what?

You have no idea what's going on. You've got a hint of an Alien, but no clue as to where it might be or what it's doing or what stage it's in.

Actually stop and think about it. Ignore what you know of the film.

Ripley is found on the beach. Why? There's acid in the cryotube, but Newt isn't infected.

What's up? Acid doesn't say anything other than an Alien is here, the same as the colonist's lack of communication says Aliens are at the colony. We're putting the pieces together as we go.

---

To put it another way:

Alien: what's the signal? What's this ship? What are these things? Oh shit, an Alien.

Aliens: the colony has gone quiet. Oh shoot, acid blood. Shit, face huggers. The colonists are all in one area - oh shit, Aliens.

Alien 3: oh there's an egg and a hugger on the ship, and a fire. Oh, there's a hugger with the dog. It gives birth.

No mystery, no unravelling of the plot, just everything in your face straight up.

We know there will be Aliens. Discovering them is part of the fun - but there's no discovery in Alien 3. It's just there, immediately, while Ripley plays catch up.

Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2023, 07:44:37 PM

Quote from: SM on Oct 12, 2023, 06:23:17 PMI'm not sure how you could re-edit to convincingly tease the audience as to whether there's an Alien running around or not when the movie has Alien in the title.

It's not about teasing the possibility of there being/not being an Alien, it's following Ripley's perspective.

We all know there are going to be Aliens in Aliens, but the theatrical cut works perfectly fine  revealing the things to the audience and characters simultaneously.

Scrubbing the Alien before Ripley sees it puts us in her shoes and lets things like talking to Bishop hold actual weight rather than be "no shit, we knew that half an hour ago".

I get the general idea, I'm just struggling to wrap my bonce around how it would play out.

It'd certainly be a good deal shorter cutting the burster and the deaths of Murphy, Boggs and Rains.

As for it being a murder mystery- the first half kinda is. Except we already know whodunnit, so it's just murders I guess.

Quote from: SM on Oct 13, 2023, 11:48:54 AM

Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2023, 07:44:37 PM

Quote from: SM on Oct 12, 2023, 06:23:17 PMI'm not sure how you could re-edit to convincingly tease the audience as to whether there's an Alien running around or not when the movie has Alien in the title.

It's not about teasing the possibility of there being/not being an Alien, it's following Ripley's perspective.

We all know there are going to be Aliens in Aliens, but the theatrical cut works perfectly fine  revealing the things to the audience and characters simultaneously.

Scrubbing the Alien before Ripley sees it puts us in her shoes and lets things like talking to Bishop hold actual weight rather than be "no shit, we knew that half an hour ago".

I get the general idea, I'm just struggling to wrap my bonce around how it would play out.

It'd certainly be a good deal shorter cutting the burster and the deaths of Murphy, Boggs and Rains.

As for it being a murder mystery- the first half kinda is. Except we already know whodunnit, so it's just murders I guess.

Happy to send it when I'm done.

Quote from: SiL on Oct 13, 2023, 11:31:39 AMObviously you know one will show up. It's an Alien movie. Nobody is suggesting otherwise.

But how did it get there? What's it doing?

Ripley sees the acid and we all think facehugger. She has the autopsy done
- nothing. Now what?

You have no idea what's going on. You've got a hint of an Alien, but no clue as to where it might be or what it's doing or what stage it's in.

Actually stop and think about it. Ignore what you know of the film.

Ripley is found on the beach. Why? There's acid in the cryotube, but Newt isn't infected.

What's up? Acid doesn't say anything other than an Alien is here, the same as the colonist's lack of communication says Aliens are at the colony. We're putting the pieces together as we go.

---

To put it another way:

Alien: what's the signal? What's this ship? What are these things? Oh shit, an Alien.

Aliens: the colony has gone quiet. Oh shoot, acid blood. Shit, face huggers. The colonists are all in one area - oh shit, Aliens.

Alien 3: oh there's an egg and a hugger on the ship, and a fire. Oh, there's a hugger with the dog. It gives birth.

No mystery, no unravelling of the plot, just everything in your face straight up.

We know there will be Aliens. Discovering them is part of the fun - but there's no discovery in Alien 3. It's just there, immediately, while Ripley plays catch up.

See, I'm a sucker for mystery, and I love seeing events unfold as we go along. Like this is the version I would very much want to see, even though I know an Alien is coming.

Ripley might be questioning her sanity as she keeps getting told that one of the convicts must have gone off their rocker and started killing the other inmates.  She would keep second-guessing herself despite the evidence of an alien, thinking it's all in her head.  It might have been a decent psychological thriller until the eventual reveal of an actual alien being there.

Quote from: oduodu on Oct 13, 2023, 07:57:56 AM

Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Oct 13, 2023, 05:38:23 AMIf that's the case, then the Bishop scene should be removed since it's regurgitating everything we already know.

how do we know beforehand that the company knows everything?

tag:

not to be taken seriously. and off topic. lol

Well, we're already clued in that they're in a hurry to get to her.

I may be biased due to my love of the movie, but I gotta be honest, what's being suggested is the equivalent of removing the face of the Monalisa with a pot of Games Workshop paint in order to better appreciate the background (in my view) 😅 - I definitely didn't go into Alien 3 expecting a Murder Mystery. I swear when you guys finish the fan edit I'm going to remove Ripley and edit in Hercule Poirot 😂

"There was one survivor, two dead and a droid that was hopelessly smashed beyond repair...the survivor...is a Belgian sleuth".

(https://i.imgur.com/IrcrV70.jpg)

"No no, mon ami - whilst it is true zat only Mr. Gollic could 'ave been alone in ze infirmary long enough to have bitten through ze head of the good Mr Clemens, one of you, in this very room spat ze acid at Mr Murphy to commit the murdeurr most cruel.."

The fact you think Ripley's journey in the first half of the film is the background detail, again, highlights the issue.

She knows there's an Alien. We know there's an Alien. It's an Alien movie. It's about finding out where it is, how it got there, what state it's in.

Just like Aliens - we know the colonists found Aliens even without the deleted scene. But we don't know exactly what the marines will find until they get there.

Take out the Alien and you get that same sense of building dread you got the first two movies.

Quote from: SiL on Oct 13, 2023, 08:40:12 PMThe fact you think Ripley's journey in the first half of the film is the background detail, again, highlights the issue.

I feel the bigger issue is that there are those who feel Alien 3 needs to jump to the same beat as the first two movies... it doesn't 😅 "Alien and Aliens did it this way, so Alien 3 would be better if it did too". I don't feel it does. (But again, I acknowledge that I'm very biased on this front BECAUSE I'm one of the few who feel Alien 3 is perfect as is- for the record, I'd still be very interested in seeing your edit, to see how it plays out, despite my jesting) 😊

Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Oct 13, 2023, 08:55:33 PMI feel the bigger issue is that there are those who feel Alien 3 needs to jump to the same beat as the first two movies... it doesn't 😅 "Alien and Aliens did it this way, so Alien 3 would be better if it did too". I don't feel it does.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm using those films as examples of what I'm suggesting, not saying Alien 3 needs to do the same because of them.

Quote from: SiL on Oct 13, 2023, 09:01:28 PM

Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Oct 13, 2023, 08:55:33 PMI feel the bigger issue is that there are those who feel Alien 3 needs to jump to the same beat as the first two movies... it doesn't 😅 "Alien and Aliens did it this way, so Alien 3 would be better if it did too". I don't feel it does.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm using those films as examples of what I'm suggesting, not saying Alien 3 needs to do the same because of them.

Either way, I'd definitely view it with an open mind :-) the hardest part will be viewing it *knowing* what was there prior to cuts- I felt the same when viewing the Assembly Cut the first few times; it's like listening to a fave song and there's a note missing; you can't focus on what is there for what feels "off" (best example would be the soundtrack during Ripley's sacrifice in the Assembly Cut - it feels butchered) 😅

Quote from: SiL on Oct 13, 2023, 11:57:49 AM

Quote from: SM on Oct 13, 2023, 11:48:54 AM

Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2023, 07:44:37 PM

Quote from: SM on Oct 12, 2023, 06:23:17 PMI'm not sure how you could re-edit to convincingly tease the audience as to whether there's an Alien running around or not when the movie has Alien in the title.

It's not about teasing the possibility of there being/not being an Alien, it's following Ripley's perspective.

We all know there are going to be Aliens in Aliens, but the theatrical cut works perfectly fine  revealing the things to the audience and characters simultaneously.

Scrubbing the Alien before Ripley sees it puts us in her shoes and lets things like talking to Bishop hold actual weight rather than be "no shit, we knew that half an hour ago".

I get the general idea, I'm just struggling to wrap my bonce around how it would play out.

It'd certainly be a good deal shorter cutting the burster and the deaths of Murphy, Boggs and Rains.

As for it being a murder mystery- the first half kinda is. Except we already know whodunnit, so it's just murders I guess.

Happy to send it when I'm done.

Yes please

I mean I kind of get it if we remove absolutely everything and Ripley just wakes up on the beach, but I don't feel like the intrigue of finding out with Ripley builds any mystery unless it's a different outcome when we do get there, some kind of bait and switch (I'm not even sure what that would be tbh).

Having it just be "ah the Alien killing people again" just resets it back into territory we've already been in.

What did Fincher want to do with the script or has he never elaborated on that?

Quote from: SM on Oct 13, 2023, 10:50:56 PM

Quote from: SiL on Oct 13, 2023, 11:57:49 AM

Quote from: SM on Oct 13, 2023, 11:48:54 AM

Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2023, 07:44:37 PM

Quote from: SM on Oct 12, 2023, 06:23:17 PMI'm not sure how you could re-edit to convincingly tease the audience as to whether there's an Alien running around or not when the movie has Alien in the title.

It's not about teasing the possibility of there being/not being an Alien, it's following Ripley's perspective.

We all know there are going to be Aliens in Aliens, but the theatrical cut works perfectly fine  revealing the things to the audience and characters simultaneously.

Scrubbing the Alien before Ripley sees it puts us in her shoes and lets things like talking to Bishop hold actual weight rather than be "no shit, we knew that half an hour ago".

I get the general idea, I'm just struggling to wrap my bonce around how it would play out.

It'd certainly be a good deal shorter cutting the burster and the deaths of Murphy, Boggs and Rains.

As for it being a murder mystery- the first half kinda is. Except we already know whodunnit, so it's just murders I guess.

Happy to send it when I'm done.

Yes please

Wait, SiL is reediting A3? Put me on that wishlist as well!

Quote from: Stitch on Oct 14, 2023, 01:10:38 AM

Quote from: SM on Oct 13, 2023, 10:50:56 PM

Quote from: SiL on Oct 13, 2023, 11:57:49 AM

Quote from: SM on Oct 13, 2023, 11:48:54 AM

Quote from: SiL on Oct 12, 2023, 07:44:37 PM

Quote from: SM on Oct 12, 2023, 06:23:17 PMI'm not sure how you could re-edit to convincingly tease the audience as to whether there's an Alien running around or not when the movie has Alien in the title.

It's not about teasing the possibility of there being/not being an Alien, it's following Ripley's perspective.

We all know there are going to be Aliens in Aliens, but the theatrical cut works perfectly fine  revealing the things to the audience and characters simultaneously.

Scrubbing the Alien before Ripley sees it puts us in her shoes and lets things like talking to Bishop hold actual weight rather than be "no shit, we knew that half an hour ago".

I get the general idea, I'm just struggling to wrap my bonce around how it would play out.

It'd certainly be a good deal shorter cutting the burster and the deaths of Murphy, Boggs and Rains.

As for it being a murder mystery- the first half kinda is. Except we already know whodunnit, so it's just murders I guess.

Happy to send it when I'm done.

Yes please

Wait, SiL is reediting A3? Put me on that wishlist as well!

It's more like what the review pointed out were the flaws of Alien 3 and how it could be done.

Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Oct 13, 2023, 09:46:17 PM

Quote from: SiL on Oct 13, 2023, 09:01:28 PM

Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Oct 13, 2023, 08:55:33 PMI feel the bigger issue is that there are those who feel Alien 3 needs to jump to the same beat as the first two movies... it doesn't 😅 "Alien and Aliens did it this way, so Alien 3 would be better if it did too". I don't feel it does.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm using those films as examples of what I'm suggesting, not saying Alien 3 needs to do the same because of them.

Either way, I'd definitely view it with an open mind :-) the hardest part will be viewing it *knowing* what was there prior to cuts- I felt the same when viewing the Assembly Cut the first few times; it's like listening to a fave song and there's a note missing; you can't focus on what is there for what feels "off" (best example would be the soundtrack during Ripley's sacrifice in the Assembly Cut - it feels butchered) 😅

Because it is.  One of the best cues in any of the films and it's just - yeah, nah.

Quote from: Stitch on Oct 14, 2023, 01:10:38 AMWait, SiL is reediting A3? Put me on that wishlist as well!

He should bring back the cast for reshoots.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 13, 2023, 10:11:36 AM

Quote from: Neila on Oct 13, 2023, 10:02:17 AMI already gave myself the explanation of how the egg got on the Sulaco:
The queen no longer had an egg sac, but it could also be that there was something like a residue of semen on her abdomen, which dripped under the floor bars during the fight with Ripley and developed into an egg there.

Like this?

Quote from: Local Trouble on May 03, 2023, 04:34:19 AMChatGPT has written it all out:

oh that's interesting, I didn't know that syberdime systems saw it exactly like that...but yes, exactly like that  :laugh:

As an American, has David Fincher ever made any mention of the horrors of teatime on the set of Alien 3?

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 17, 2023, 02:03:16 PMAs an American, has David Fincher ever made any mention of the horrors of teatime on the set of Alien 3?

I think he processed this horror in seven ;D

Quote from: Neila on Oct 18, 2023, 09:06:37 AM

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Oct 17, 2023, 02:03:16 PMAs an American, has David Fincher ever made any mention of the horrors of teatime on the set of Alien 3?

I think he processed this horror in seven ;D

I can't help but picture 'Se7en' as a commentary on 'Alien 3' with Fincher being the young inexperienced cop full of hope, Ridley being the older experienced cop who knows the industry has gone to shit and can't be saved, and Fox being the seven deadly sins 🤣

Would the Bishop scene work better if it moved to an earlier point in the movie?

Quote from: Wweyland on Oct 18, 2023, 10:28:58 AMWould the Bishop scene work better if it moved to an earlier point in the movie?

It could work better if you intercut it with Boggs and Rains encountering the adult, rather than right after. Have "It was with us all the way" and the reveal of the Alien covered in blood be a sort of simultaneous climax

Quote from: SiL on Oct 19, 2023, 08:44:59 AM

Quote from: Wweyland on Oct 18, 2023, 10:28:58 AMWould the Bishop scene work better if it moved to an earlier point in the movie?

It could work better if you intercut it with Boggs and Rains encountering the adult, rather than right after. Have "It was with us all the way" and the reveal of the Alien covered in blood be a sort of simultaneous climax

And then time for rape!
But in all seriousness, is Ripley a bit slow to realize what's happening, or just not telling others what she's realizing? Could this be sped up as well?

That's right.
Normally everything should have been clear to her the moment she saw the acid stain on Newt's hyper sleep cabin.
But that was just an attempt to build tension.
I also never understood why no one examined the dead dog anymore, which obviously didn't die in some dark hiding place but in Murphy's cell.
The ox scene would also have needed more action or the discovery of the queen facehugger. Many scenes could have built up a lot more tension, but the film didn't have time for it due to the problematic production.
In the assembly cut, the secondary storyline with Golik is implemented in an exciting way and enhances the film immensely for me.

Murphy didn't go back to his cell and was dead the next morning so couldn't raise the alarm.

Continuity error or spent the night in someone else's cell after lockup.

Quote from: SM on Nov 09, 2023, 08:01:42 PMContinuity error or spent the night in someone else's cell after lockup.

What about his vow of celibacy?

I never got the impression Spike was in lockup.. the area we see him in prior to the burster hatching looks nothing like the lockup area as seen in the scene where Ripley asks Dillon to kill her. Since Andrew's said he wanted everyone back in lockup by 2100 hours after the cremation at the furnace, nobody would have seen the dog again. Murphy would have started the early morning shift cleaning the fans, gets diced, and Clemens is woken once the body is discovered. This time frame also makes sense given the xeno is only just freshly molting in the duct when disturbed by Murphy.

Spike was in Murphy's cell.  He clearly didn't return after the cremation and supper and went straight to work in the vent shaft in the morning or he would've found Spike dead.

The Alien growth time frames are off with previous films as the Alien is only around the same size as a large dog, some 11 hours later.

yes, many variants would have been possible. I just thought that you could get a little more tension out of scenes like this. Of course the viewer knows immediately what's going on, but it would have been interesting how Ripley would react if they had found the dog and how she would have explained the situation to them.
I would also have found it great if the religious aspect had come into play even more,
like in an earlier script.
They could have seen the alien as the arrival of the devil and Ripley as a temptress of evil, while Clemens is the only one who believes and helps her.
When the alien "kissed" Ripley, Golic could have told the others that Ripley was working together with the devil. Some cool scenes could have been created from that. but that's all gone.
The film is what it is and I still like it.
I was just glad that it wasn't an even bigger action record. There were a few ideas from other screenwriters with several Alien Queens against several power loaders and that's just stupid shit.
I also like the film because many people expected an even bigger action film and it went in the other direction.

There's no script with multiple Queens fighting loaders. Maybe some people had ideas like that but none were written.

How long would Ripley have lasted in that loader against a regular warrior?

A minute.  Tops.

Quote from: SM on Nov 13, 2023, 09:59:58 PMThere's no script with multiple Queens fighting loaders. Maybe some people had ideas like that but none were written.

As stupid as it sounds, it was definitely in the conversation.
I'm not sure if it's in the making of Alien 3 or if I read it in a report about it, but it was on the table.
Maybe just as an idea, but it came from someone who was involved in the project in some way, even if only as a consultant or screenwriter.
This hollow idea alone is absolutely crazy and would have seemed incredibly ridiculous.

I think Flynn mentions it in Dissecting Aliens because I remember it.

Some ideas are so dangerously bad that they could completely destroy a film or even a franchise.
Unfortunately, many people see it that way with Prometheus and Covenant.
My personal opinion is that Ridley had above all protected the space jockey from unforgivably stupid ideas, like the ones the Strausses had for another AVP.

My opinion is that the Engineers are an unforgivably stupid idea.

Quote from: SiL on Nov 14, 2023, 09:57:34 AMI think Flynn mentions it in Dissecting Aliens because I remember it.

I recall it as well - must be from that book too.  But I've never come across in any scripts, or even treatments to that effect.

Who could have guessed loaders were an ideal countermeasure to the perfect organism?

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 14, 2023, 11:02:36 PMWho could have guessed loaders were an ideal countermeasure to the perfect organism?

chuck norris maybe ;D

Quote from: Neila on Nov 15, 2023, 07:22:31 AMchuck norris

2004 was 50 years ago  :'(

Quote from: Neila on Nov 14, 2023, 09:47:29 AM

Quote from: SM on Nov 13, 2023, 09:59:58 PMThere's no script with multiple Queens fighting loaders. Maybe some people had ideas like that but none were written.

As stupid as it sounds, it was definitely in the conversation.
I'm not sure if it's in the making of Alien 3 or if I read it in a report about it, but it was on the table.
Maybe just as an idea, but it came from someone who was involved in the project in some way, even if only as a consultant or screenwriter.
This hollow idea alone is absolutely crazy and would have seemed incredibly ridiculous.