For me the ending to the film was a bit too abrupt, how would u guys have chose to the film personally? For me personally i would have made it end with them finding Wolfs ship at the bottom of the lake and THATS how Yutani Corporation is able to create ships and travel into space not with his damn gun :-\
Quote from: IZE on May 30, 2018, 08:04:28 PM
For me personally i would have made it end with them finding Wolfs ship at the bottom of the lake and THATS how Yutani Corporation is able to create ships and travel into space not with his damn gun :-\
It`s been some time... but I think Colin Strause said they planned on having the OWLF team from Predator 2 to find Wolf`s ship at the end. But just like their other ideas... the budget didn`t allow it.
Hell, the original scripted ending by Shane Salerno was even worse.
it literally just ended. Helicopter goes up. Bomb comes down. Fade to white. End.
The Strauses get a lot of shit...but I think their hearts were in the right place. Incredibly, this movie could have been a lot worse without their insistence in certain areas
Yeah, I think they were genuinely stuck. They wanted to make a kickass Alien and Predator film. I've no doubt about that. They did the best with what they had.
I read somewhere there was a version of the ending where the main gang is killed by special forces after they land the chopper.
Maybe it would have been better for the story if it was Wolf who activated his self-destruct instead of the plane dropping the nuke.
In the current version, Wolf really doesn't help anything, he makes the situation worse by having yet another Predator ship on Earth and he is clearly overwhelmed with all the Aliens running around. His final plan of going against the Predalien with only melee weapons doesn't make much sense. It would be better if he is wounded and sees the mayhem around him, activates destruct (which takes time and also remotely detonates his ship), then drops weapons and fights the Predalien.
Quote from: Wweyland on Jun 18, 2018, 09:04:45 AMI read somewhere there was a version of the ending where the main gang is killed by special forces after they land the chopper.
Yeah, it's mentioned in the commentary. They changed it because they decided it was too bleak.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 18, 2018, 08:10:10 AM
Yeah, I think they were genuinely stuck. They wanted to make a kickass Alien and Predator film. I've no doubt about that. They did the best with what they had.
Yeah I heard they wanted it set in space at one point but that was considered too "expensive" by the studio. Which I don't see how. I get that using earth and real locations means no need to build sets but I can't imagine it being that expensive just for a few sets. I mean the previous films had no issue.
Being newbie directors, they were at the mercy of the studio. It is lucky that some of more outlandish ideas didn't get in and I read that there was a few.
The previous film was shot in Prague which was ultra cheap, and the sequel had significantly less budget.
Quote from: Wweyland on Jun 18, 2018, 09:04:45 AM
I read somewhere there was a version of the ending where the main gang is killed by special forces after they land the chopper.
Maybe it would have been better for the story if it was Wolf who activated his self-destruct instead of the plane dropping the nuke.
In the current version, Wolf really doesn't help anything, he makes the situation worse by having yet another Predator ship on Earth and he is clearly overwhelmed with all the Aliens running around. His final plan of going against the Predalien with only melee weapons doesn't make much sense. It would be better if he is wounded and sees the mayhem around him, activates destruct (which takes time and also remotely detonates his ship), then drops weapons and fights the Predalien.
Perfect idea honestly makes more sense.
The Strauss Brothers were digital special effects artist, not directors. I didn't much follow any of it when the movie came out but it is clear that they were over the their heads. Still I don't see AVPr as being the crap fest lots of fans make it out to be. There's a lot of things that are done well and the over all plot isn't bad. It's more entertaining than AVP if I must be honest. Of course it's hard to prove it since the picture is so dark.
However the power source for the gun could be enough to greatly enhance human energy production. That tech is light years ahead of what was currently available at the time.
I'm curious, was Wolf's ship destroyed in the blast?
Based on the computer graphic in the film - very unlikely. The helicopter escaped so the pod in the lake was probably also spared.
Really? Someone just said AvPRs plot is not bad... wow. No, it just terrible and it makes AvP a better film by comparison.
WhiteRabbit throws hyperbolic hate nonstop at TLJ, but says AvPR plot not bad and does a lot well..
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/QCPKEIwO5T8PK/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 18, 2018, 08:10:10 AM
Yeah, I think they were genuinely stuck. They wanted to make a kickass Alien and Predator film. I've no doubt about that. They did the best with what they had.
I think that if they had gotten 200 millond dollars of budget and 6 months just to write the script they wold have still not made a good movie. Probably something way better than AVPR, but not a good movie.
Also AVPR is one of the worst movie to come out in hollywood in recent years, is almost like a parody.
I dont knwo about the ending, it would have not fixed anything honestly.
Even with the limitations they had, they could have made a decent film.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 24, 2018, 01:24:16 PM
Really? Someone just said AvPRs plot is not bad... wow. No, it just terrible and it makes AvP a better film by comparison.
WhiteRabbit throws hyperbolic hate nonstop at TLJ, but says AvPR plot not bad and does a lot well..
https://media0.giphy.com/media/QCPKEIwO5T8PK/giphy.gif
I actually did stop with the Star Wars because the best way to erase a mistake is to never talk about it so it is eventually lost to human history. Human history is not as permanent as the geological record.
AVPr is a better movie than TLJ, floppy tubes, egg-barfing and f**ked up transfer all accounted for. The characters are better. I can't believe I just said that but the proof is in the pudding. If I had to choose between AVPr and TLJ on the TV, AVPr is winning that battle.
Oh and as TLJ proclaim, let star wars die already.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/LyJ6KPlrFdKnK/giphy.gif)
Well it least i have a good idea of how far removed your taste in films is from mine.
Amazes me still though.
There are not enough memes to describe whiterabbits edge.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/cx5fzLMMiPh2U/giphy.gif)
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 24, 2018, 11:13:24 PM
Well it least i have a good idea of how far removed your taste in films is from mine.
You have no taste, 426Buddy. Because at least AVPr has a flavor no matter how bitter it may be, unlike TLJ. AVPr is not the best movie by far but it is still entertaining and an honest effort. Sometime I wonder just what you guys think a movie called alien vs predator is meant to be.
Clearly TLJ had a flavour if it gets you so riled up. :D
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jun 25, 2018, 03:13:56 AM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 24, 2018, 11:13:24 PM
Well it least i have a good idea of how far removed your taste in films is from mine.
You have no taste, 426Buddy. Because at least AVPr has a flavor no matter how bitter it may be, unlike TLJ. AVPr is not the best movie by far but it is still entertaining and an honest effort. Sometime I wonder just what you guys think a movie called alien vs predator is meant to be.
The answer to your last question is simple, I expect it to be good entertainment. AvPR is just bad. The acting, characters, and story all bad. Even the effects are a low point in both franchises (aside from wolf or Ian Whites performance atleast). If you somehow find it fun because its some trashy b movie thats barely a step above scifi channel, then great good for you. But dont say it does a lot of things right, it doesn't. At least I can say that despite being a letdown, AvP was a fun adventure flick with some cool effects and visuals.
And your weird hate for tlj is just odd. I understand why people don't like it, its not my favorite ( i did enjoy it though ;)). But i dont understand all the anger, vitriol, and hyperbole thrown at it.
It's because it's awful, granted not as awful as AVPR but still in the "diminishing the franchise" box.
For things that contribute nothing worthwhile.
It was supposed to be "You've got no taste" right... I screwed that right up didn't I.
This is no place for yet more star wars talk. If you wanna talk about how rad avpr is or isn't then fine. We can talk that.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 25, 2018, 03:28:55 AM
Clearly TLJ had a flavour if it gets you so riled up. :D
Well it's kind of a dead topic but like any good turd there's always a little bit more wiping up required. Still I don't bother you guys in the star wars thread... unless you want me too? Everyone enjoys garbage in one way or another.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jun 25, 2018, 03:44:38 AM
It was supposed to be "You've got no taste" right... I screwed that right up didn't I.
This is no place for yet more star wars talk. If you wanna talk about how rad avpr is or isn't then fine. We can talk that.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 25, 2018, 03:28:55 AM
Clearly TLJ had a flavour if it gets you so riled up. :D
Well it's kind of a dead topic but like any good turd there's always a little bit more wiping up required. Still I don't bother you guys in the star wars thread... unless you want me too? Everyone enjoys garbage in one way or another.
Most of my last post was dedicated AvPR (previous posts too) :(
I mean if all you're after is watching the Predator go from scene to scene murdering stuff in poorly lit shots, then yeah I guess AVP R would be better.
What's the point in comparing two different dumpster fires though?
"Good" is not a term I would associate with AVP:R in any context though. It has a shot here or there, or a moment, but that's about all it has.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 24, 2018, 07:59:06 PMEven with the limitations they had, they could have made a decent film.
Debatable. The script - especially the characters - was garbage. Not sure any level of directing could fix that.
Case in point -
Prometheus.
I think the Strauss brothers would have just been better off making a Predator film as that seemed to be where their interests laid. I'll always be a touch grateful they at least had enough respect for the character to bring back it's most recognisable traits such as the correct heat vision, sounds, eye flash and other elements Anderson totally discarded.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jun 24, 2018, 10:50:20 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 24, 2018, 01:24:16 PM
Really? Someone just said AvPRs plot is not bad... wow. No, it just terrible and it makes AvP a better film by comparison.
WhiteRabbit throws hyperbolic hate nonstop at TLJ, but says AvPR plot not bad and does a lot well..
https://media0.giphy.com/media/QCPKEIwO5T8PK/giphy.gif
I actually did stop with the Star Wars because the best way to erase a mistake is to never talk about it so it is eventually lost to human history. Human history is not as permanent as the geological record.
AVPr is a better movie than TLJ, floppy tubes, egg-barfing and f**ked up transfer all accounted for. The characters are better. I can't believe I just said that but the proof is in the pudding. If I had to choose between AVPr and TLJ on the TV, AVPr is winning that battle.
Oh and as TLJ proclaim, let star wars die already.
The proof is only in your head dude lol
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 25, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
Debatable. The script - especially the characters - was garbage. Not sure any level of directing could fix that.
They changed the script though. If they had continued to change the script and had actually given a shit about the performances of their actors they could have greatly improved the thing.
No. Dawsons Creek vs. Aliens was never going to be anything anyone wanted.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 25, 2018, 05:58:42 PM
No. Dawsons Creek vs. Aliens was never going to be anything anyone wanted.
That's what i'm saying Huda, it didn't have to be Dawson's creek. Yes they were stuck with the Earth setting, and with the local town setting, but they could have gutted the details entirely.
Here's just a free two minute idea. Make it about the National Guard. Have Kelly in the National Guard, have her family living in Gunnison. Have all of the AVP stuff be shrouded in mystery. Keep the hunter and the boy seeing something crash, only they see it while camping, at night, and it looks like a meteor to them. When they go to investigate they get dragged off into the dark. Have the national guard have to deal with some OWLF guys who are monitoring and tracking the Wolf Predator. Everything comes to a head at the air strip, just like in the Salerno script.
Same premise, similar locales, completely different context, tone, mood, pacing, and details.
You could even do 'Dawson's Creek', if the characters are halfway interesting or have something resembling a personality. There was enough space in that flick to give them a bit more depth. Salerno's script even did make Kelly and whatever her husband's name was more interesting. Instead they were just all dull.
Yeah I am not sure how even a good director could help the movie if the script was garbage, there would have to be major rewrites which you can't always do depending on deadlines.
I mean if the movie had to be set on earth and in Gunnison, they should have at least got a few things right, and while I don't want to see a rehash of Aliens, perhaps focusing on the National guard might have been better, OWLF being involved could have added some spice too. Of course then you have to make sure the characters have actual dimension and not be cardboards.
More importantly, get rid of the egg barfing thing and rapid life-cycle.
Quote from: Samhain13 on May 30, 2018, 09:41:29 PM
It`s been some time... but I think Colin Strause said they planned on having the OWLF team from Predator 2 to find Wolf`s ship at the end. But just like their other ideas... the budget didn`t allow it.
Finding the ship woulda made a lot more sense
No more or less than the fact that they never found Jungle Hunter's ship.
They had a lot of ideas, but none of them would have made the film more than the sum of it's part... Ooh, we could have gotten to see 30 seconds of the alien planet... Oooh it was supposed to be Garber instead of Colonel Stevens... Ooh ,they might have found the pod Wolf dropped down in...
...None of which would have made the film any better in any particular fashion, sad to say.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jul 27, 2018, 02:45:14 AM
No more or less than the fact that they never found Jungle Hunter's ship.
I thought Jungle Hunter came down in a pod?
He did.
Same deal though.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jul 27, 2018, 02:45:14 AMNo more or less than the fact that they never found Jungle Hunter's ship.
The second film's novel states the Jungle Hunter's ship returned home on autopilot following his death, taking with it a record of what he had seen and done while on Earth.
It goes on to say the second film's Predator comes to Earth because he's seen these recordings and wishes to test himself against the same challenging prey, which I thought was a nice idea.
Weren't they going to originally have Dutch find the pod and have the brawl take place around it?
I always figured the ship detonated with Jungle Hunter's wrist gauntlet anyway.
As for transferring data/footage to the mothership, I like that concept. I feel like, with their technology, Jungle Hunter could probably transmit it from Earth to a ship in Earth's orbit with ease even, as opposed to sending back the pod, but either way I guess.
Something that always bugged me with P2 was that they had a rather large ship sitting in the city for, what we can at least assume to be, 2 months and no one noticed. Also how lame for the other predators to have to chill on the ship while City Hunter goes out to play.
I believe they were originally going to have Dutch find his little hunting camp with all the trophies.
It's the Predator version of pay-per-view!
Ah, according to the Thomas Brothers the other Predators were there just to observe City Hunter before he get's inducted into their tribe. In their version of things, Predators hunt alone, and it's only after they prove their toughness by hunting the ultimate Prey that they become part of a group.
Quote from: PredBabe on Jul 28, 2018, 12:15:04 AMWeren't they going to originally have Dutch find the pod and have the brawl take place around it?
Yeah, in the novelisation the final battle ends at the Predator's ship, which ends up exploding after Dutch damages it.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jul 27, 2018, 02:45:14 AM
No more or less than the fact that they never found Jungle Hunter's ship.
I guess what I am saying is...
It would made more sense for a pred ship, not a shoulder cannon, to be the basis of our own interstellar ships
i think had they made some changes to the script like....
* Dont rush the whole birth and growth of the Predalien. personally i would have made the first 15 mins of the movie have no humans whatsoever, just the Predalien stalking the 3 Predators on the scout ship back to earth. Light the ship better and have some Predator dialogue with subtitles, its something we have never seen, other then growls, we never know what they are saying to each other. Would have made for a great opening i think, then once the ship crashed boom.
* Have maybe one Predator survive, Injured of course and trying to hide out and contain the situation while calling for back up (Wolf).
* Leave only Dallas, Kelly and Eddy as main characters they could have piggy backed off the whole Predator 2 cop subplot
* OWLF should have definitely had a presence in the film again piggy back off of Predator 2.
* At least mention something about AVP maybe in the background have a reporter talking about the expedition crew still being missing or Weylands death ect.
All these plot changes are making me want to write a better draft of this movie geez lol.
Quote from: IZE on Aug 25, 2018, 04:39:22 PM
have some Predator dialogue with subtitles, its something we have never seen, other then growls, we never know what they are saying to each other. Would have made for a great opening i think, then once the ship crashed boom.
I think Predators have been humanized enough, I would not want their communication to have subtitles as it will just make it worse.
Quote from: IZE on Aug 25, 2018, 04:39:22 PM* OWLF should have definitely had a presence in the film again piggy back off of Predator 2.
Technically Stevens and his people are OWLF. At least, the logo is on one of the monitors he's watching.
if they wanted a small budget why not set it in a space craft? interior corridors? if you wanted an out-door environment why not have used maybe some kind of in-door park area of a ship to simulate outdoors? Heck the original Alien ship felt huge.
Davis wanted AvP on Earth.
Yup. I seem to recall him waxing lyrical about it on the special features about what a great idea that was.
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that it would have been great to do a more national guard focused thing. I love the idea - but I think that anything with US soldiers in the AvP universe would get compared to "Aliens" - the squad was so memorable and (of course) quotable.
I had for a story that involved the Commonwealth (cos that exists militarily in the future headcanon that I invented). I just think that having Brits, Aussies, Saffas et al (Commonwealth is pretty diverse after all) dealing with Aliens and Predators would give you some room to differentiate from the crew of the Sulacco whilst still keeping the military aesthetic.
I'd have been interested to see that desert idea instead of Requiem.
That too. I don't know who's to blame for AvP:R - I can't recall seeing on this forum much support for the Bros, but this thread seems to be the exception. It's a shame - you can see what it WANTED to be after the action-friendly AvP, but... well, we've all seen the movie...
Quote from: Russ on Sep 03, 2018, 01:56:13 PM
I had an idea for a story that involved the Commonwealth (that exists militarily in the future headcanon that I invented).
I just think that having Brits, Aussies, Saffas et al (the Commonwealth is pretty diverse after all) dealing with
Aliens and Predators would give you some room to differentiate from the crew of the Sulaco whilst still keeping the military aesthetic.
Genuinely a good idea.
Quote from: The Old One on Sep 03, 2018, 03:01:26 PM
Genuinely a good idea.
Yet still no email from Fox, damnit *lol*
Thanks so much :-)