Aliens: An Analysis

Started by Scorpio, Jan 27, 2018, 02:12:52 AM

Author
Aliens: An Analysis (Read 37,688 times)

OpenMaw

OpenMaw

#15
It's really one of the only details I wish had been given at least a little more lip service somewhere in the film. The loss of contact. Something pretty big had to happen for that to go down.

SM

SM

#16
"The hardwiring between [Operations] and [the uplink tower] is damaged."

It's fairly simple to fill in the gaps.  Either it was the Aliens (accidental or on purpose), or someone pulled a Blair.  Or they tried to contain the situation, and by the time they realised they couldn't - it was too late (and one of the aforementioned happened).

Scorpio

Scorpio

#17
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 29, 2018, 01:51:38 AM
His Alien videos are brilliant. I especially loved Alien 3's. I would say they are a must see because they give you a lot to think about and you end up appreciating certain things more.

I watched the Alien 3 one as well, it's good.

Never made the connection between First Blood Part 2 and Aliens before.

OpenMaw

OpenMaw

#18
Quote from: SM on Jan 29, 2018, 02:48:29 AM
"The hardwiring between [Operations] and [the uplink tower] is damaged."

It's fairly simple to fill in the gaps.  Either it was the Aliens (accidental or on purpose), or someone pulled a Blair.  Or they tried to contain the situation, and by the time they realised they couldn't - it was too late (and one of the aforementioned happened).

Well, sure, I just mean from the standpoint of a timeline. You would think after the first chest burster there would be calls going Earth side right away.

SM

SM

#19
Perhaps.  Or perhaps they wanted to try and deal with the situation before making a report.

ralfy

ralfy

#20
Quote from: SM on Jan 29, 2018, 02:11:28 AM

They're not saying it's impossible.  They're saying the creature she's describing has never been encountered by mankind on any of the over 300 planets they've surveyed.


Which is why they did not believe Ripley. The point, of course, is that you claimed that they did not refer to other worlds. They did.

Quote

Yes.


Which is plot hole, because that would have meant that all of the company and government officials in the inquest were that stupid.

Quote

I don't believe I made such a claim.  There's two aspects.  One; the Alien has never been encountered before and two; LV-426 has no indigenous life.


You did. Earlier, you wrote: "They said there was no indigenous life specifically on LV-426 - not numerous worlds." Now, you argue: "They're saying the creature she's describing has never been encountered by mankind on any of the over 300 planets they've surveyed." So, they were also referring to "numerous worlds," contrary to your earlier claim.

Quote

Based on what the film shows us - yes and yes.  As I said above.


There is nothing above where you said that. And you're still not addressing my points.

Quote
As for the loss of contact - it was a loss of contact.  If there was more to it, Ripley would've found it going through the colony logs.

It's a loss of contact because it's a loss of contact? Circular reasoning.

Which she probably did but didn't have to say because all she needed to do was nail Burke to the wall.

Altogether, the idea that only Burke communicated with the colony, that the colony transmitters suddenly stopped working right after the colonists brought in the first infected person, and that no one bothered to contact the colony throughout the inquest (which meant that they would have found out about the loss of transmission even earlier) are not addressed satisfactorily in any of your posts.





Quote from: JungleHunter87 on Jan 28, 2018, 04:37:11 AM

The board member was specifically talking about the Xenomorph.

RIPLEY: Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away? Ma'am, I already said it was not indigenous, it was a Derelict space craft. It was an Alien ship. It was not from there. Do you get it? We homed in on it's becon.

FEMALE BOARD MEMBER: And found something never recorded once, in over three hundred surveyed worlds. A creature which gestates inside a living human host. These are your words. And has concentrated Acid for blood.

RIPLEY: That's right. Look, I can see where this is going. But, I'm telling you those things exist.

Which is why I said earlier that this resolves the marine's belief that they will be going on on another "bug hunt": "Is this gonna be a stand-up
fight, sir, or another bug hunt?"

Does this mean that they encountered other creatures ("bugs") in other worlds? If so, and given the point that they would have easily contacted the colony during the initial part of the inquest, then why would they easily dismiss Ripley's claims? Also, it would have been uncharacteristic of them to do so as they were very thorough in their investigation: "The analysis team, which went over the lifeboat centimeter by centimeter, found no physical evidence of the creature you describe."

Hello, colony? Can you check this out for us? Colony? Hello? Hello? Oh, well, at least we checked the lifeboat, and that alone plus our surveys shows that Ripley must be making things up. LOL.

Finally, the point of mentioning this was to show that SM was wrong in claiming that they were only talking about LV-426.



Quote from: SM on Jan 29, 2018, 02:48:29 AM
"The hardwiring between [Operations] and [the uplink tower] is damaged."

It's fairly simple to fill in the gaps.  Either it was the Aliens (accidental or on purpose), or someone pulled a Blair.  Or they tried to contain the situation, and by the time they realised they couldn't - it was too late (and one of the aforementioned happened).

Damaged right after the first infected colonist arrived? That means the alien popped out right away, and then for some reason more aliens appeared, and they quickly killed or rounded up all of the colonists before the latter could send at least one message to tell the company what they they were under attack and needed help.

Sabotage makes more sense (with the saboteur having access to another set of wires leading to the uplink tower), but there's no proof of that in the script.

And damaging comms doesn't allow them to "contain the situation" in any way.



Quote from: SM on Jan 29, 2018, 10:36:36 PM
Perhaps.  Or perhaps they wanted to try and deal with the situation before making a report.

What does "try and deal with the situation" mean, and how does that stop them from transmitting anything to the company?

SM

SM

#21
Quote
You did. Earlier, you wrote: "They said there was no indigenous life specifically on LV-426 - not numerous worlds." Now, you argue: "They're saying the creature she's describing has never been encountered by mankind on any of the over 300 planets they've surveyed." So, they were also referring to "numerous worlds," contrary to your earlier claim.

My second statement clarifies the first.  I'm not seeing a contradiction.

To place it in it's actual context, I was responding to your comment "The weird thing is that even as officials claim not to have discovered indigenous life forms in numerous worlds, the marines also referred to having to deal with "another bug hunt.""

As per the dialogue above, over 300 worlds have been surveyed and nothing like the Xenomorph has been encountered.  Other lifeforms have, however, and sometimes marines need to eradicate them in 'bug hunts'.  You've misunderstood the scene when you said "officials claim not to have discovered indigenous life forms in numerous worlds".  They didn't say that.

QuoteIt's a loss of contact because it's a loss of contact?

Yes.  It's not circular reasoning.  It's simply all the information we have to work with.

QuoteAltogether, the idea that only Burke communicated with the colony, that the colony transmitters suddenly stopped working right after the colonists brought in the first infected person, and that no one bothered to contact the colony throughout the inquest (which meant that they would have found out about the loss of transmission even earlier) are not addressed satisfactorily in any of your posts.

Take it up with James Cameron.  Again, it's all the information we have to work with.  If it's not satisfactory, make up whatever story you like to fill in the gaps.

QuoteDoes this mean that they encountered other creatures ("bugs") in other worlds? If so, and given the point that they would have easily contacted the colony during the initial part of the inquest, then why would they easily dismiss Ripley's claims?

As Van Leuwen said - they didn't need to contact the colony.  People had been living there peacefully for 20 years.  Why bother when they think Ripley is a nut with PTSD who's been floating in space for nearly 60 years?

QuoteFinally, the point of mentioning this was to show that SM was wrong in claiming that they were only talking about LV-426

Nope.  Sorry.  :)

Axe

Axe

#22
You won't find plot holes trying hard to misunderstand the film's dialogues.

In addition to that, you must consider that the humanity may have hundreds and hundreds colonized exo planets. We do not know.
You may also imagine that any colonized world must be 99.9% indipendent from earth, even if you think it's hard to accept from a present day perspective.

Even a military mission like that of the colonial marines must wait at least 17 days to get a rescue team assigned. They may have thought to be f**ked anyway and try to handle that at their best. We do not know.

Or maybe there was a "colony boss" that was a dick with a megalomaniac personality and forbid external communications. You know what? We still do not know.

We don't even know how fast communications between the lv426 colony and gateway are. We may assume they are faster than light speed because of response times after Ripley speech to the company... But again, we do not know.

The only plot hole here, if communications are faster than light is why they need to freeze people to do interplanetary travels if they use some kind of quantistic entangle communications...but still...we don't know!  :D

We can't consider the informations you treated above as plot holes as they are not.  :)

SM

SM

#23
QuoteIn addition to that, you must consider that the humanity may have hundreds and hundreds colonized exo planets. We do not know.

Over 300 planets have been surveyed.  Not known how many are colonised.

QuoteEven a military mission like that of the colonial marines must wait at least 17 days to get a rescue team assigned. They may have thought to be f**ked anyway and try to handle that at their best. We do not know.

Travel time to LV-426 from Gateway is 3 weeks.

Quote
We don't even know how fast communications between the lv426 colony and gateway are. We may assume they are faster than light speed because of response times after Ripley speech to the company... But again, we do not know.

To get a reply to a message from LV-426 is 2 weeks (1 week each way).

QuoteThe only plot hole here, if communications are faster than light is why they need to freeze people to do interplanetary travels if they use some kind of quantistic entangle communications...but still...we don't know!

No need to heat, food, water, power and provide constant life support for a crew that's asleep.

ralfy

ralfy

#24
Quote from: SM on Jan 30, 2018, 06:55:37 AM
Quote
You did. Earlier, you wrote: "They said there was no indigenous life specifically on LV-426 - not numerous worlds." Now, you argue: "They're saying the creature she's describing has never been encountered by mankind on any of the over 300 planets they've surveyed." So, they were also referring to "numerous worlds," contrary to your earlier claim.

My second statement clarifies the first.  I'm not seeing a contradiction.

The contradiction is very clear. In your first statement, you write that "they said that there was no indigenous life SPECIFICALLY (emphasis mine) on LV-426 - not numerous worlds." In short, they were not referring to other worlds. In your second statement, you write, "They're saying the creature she's describing has never been encountered by mankind on any of the over 300 planets they've surveyed." In short, they were not specifically referring to LV-426 but to "numerous worlds," or more accurately "over 300 planets."

Quote

To place it in it's actual context, I was responding to your comment "The weird thing is that even as officials claim not to have discovered indigenous life forms in numerous worlds, the marines also referred to having to deal with "another bug hunt.""

As per the dialogue above, over 300 worlds have been surveyed and nothing like the Xenomorph has been encountered.  Other lifeforms have, however, and sometimes marines need to eradicate them in 'bug hunts'.  You've misunderstood the scene when you said "officials claim not to have discovered indigenous life forms in numerous worlds".  They didn't say that.


Yes, but that doesn't resolve your contradiction. As pointed out earlier, you wrote, "They said there was no indigenous life specifically on LV-426 - not numerous worlds." But it turns out that what they really pointed out is that "300 worlds have been surveyed and nothing like the Xenomorph has been encountered." So, they were not referring specifically to LV-426.

Also, I mentioned in a subsequent post that they did refer to the beacon, the ship, and the creature not found elsewhere, but give the presence of other lifeforms that necessitated "bug hunts" (and probably involving more than just harsh language), then that gives more credence to Ripley's claim. And all they needed to do (not just Burke but the company and government officials who were all part of the inquest) was to contact the colony (which they should have done initially) and wait for findings.

Quote

Yes.  It's not circular reasoning.  It's simply all the information we have to work with.


It's circular reasoning, and your second point ("It's simply all the information we have to work with") is not connected to it.

Quote
Take it up with James Cameron.  Again, it's all the information we have to work with.  If it's not satisfactory, make up whatever story you like to fill in the gaps.

And yet that's what you tried to do in another message, where you even argued that, "It's fairly simple to fill in the gaps."

Quote

As Van Leuwen said - they didn't need to contact the colony.  People had been living there peacefully for 20 years.  Why bother when they think Ripley is a nut with PTSD who's been floating in space for nearly 60 years?


That makes absolutely no sense at all, unless that's what they wanted Ripley to believe. In short, they were covering up.

Quote

Nope.  Sorry.  :)

Nope, it's clear that you are wrong.



Quote from: Axe on Jan 31, 2018, 12:22:46 AM
You won't find plot holes trying hard to misunderstand the film's dialogues.

In addition to that, you must consider that the humanity may have hundreds and hundreds colonized exo planets. We do not know.
You may also imagine that any colonized world must be 99.9% indipendent from earth, even if you think it's hard to accept from a present day perspective.

Even a military mission like that of the colonial marines must wait at least 17 days to get a rescue team assigned. They may have thought to be f**ked anyway and try to handle that at their best. We do not know.

Or maybe there was a "colony boss" that was a dick with a megalomaniac personality and forbid external communications. You know what? We still do not know.

We don't even know how fast communications between the lv426 colony and gateway are. We may assume they are faster than light speed because of response times after Ripley speech to the company... But again, we do not know.

The only plot hole here, if communications are faster than light is why they need to freeze people to do interplanetary travels if they use some kind of quantistic entangle communications...but still...we don't know!  :D

We can't consider the informations you treated above as plot holes as they are not.  :)

Your first message, and it had to be this. LOL.

JungleHunter87

JungleHunter87

#25
QuoteAlso, I mentioned in a subsequent post that they did refer to the beacon, the ship, and the creature not found elsewhere, but give the presence of other lifeforms that necessitated "bug hunts"

No, not the beacon and ship. Only the creature. Hence the " And found something never recorded once, in over three hundred surveyed worlds. A creature which gestates inside a living human host. These are your words. And has concentrated Acid for blood ".

Only Ripley speaks of the beacon and ship. No board member's are seen mentioning those two things.

SM

SM

#26
QuoteYes, but that doesn't resolve your contradiction. As pointed out earlier, you wrote, "They said there was no indigenous life specifically on LV-426 - not numerous worlds." But it turns out that what they really pointed out is that "300 worlds have been surveyed and nothing like the Xenomorph has been encountered." So, they were not referring specifically to LV-426.

These are two separate parts of the scene.  One part refers to any encounters with the Xenomorph at all on any world.  The other refers to LV-426 having any indigenous life.  Again I was responding to your remark that "officials claim not to have discovered indigenous life forms in numerous worlds".

QuoteAlso, I mentioned in a subsequent post that they did refer to the beacon, the ship, and the creature not found elsewhere, but give the presence of other lifeforms that necessitated "bug hunts" (and probably involving more than just harsh language), then that gives more credence to Ripley's claim.

Why should it?  They read out parts of Ripley's deposition quite incredulously (as detailed by JungleHunter87).  They clearly don't believe her.

QuoteIt's circular reasoning, and your second point ("It's simply all the information we have to work with") is not connected to it.

Yes it is.  I'm pretty sure I know what I mean with my own posts.

QuoteAnd yet that's what you tried to do in another message, where you even argued that, "It's fairly simple to fill in the gaps."

Indeed.  What's your point here?

Quote
That makes absolutely no sense at all, unless that's what they wanted Ripley to believe. In short, they were covering up.

Who was covering up?  Once again, it's obvious no one in the enquiry believes her.

QuoteNope, it's clear that you are wrong.

You keep saying this, but have yet to detail how.  I'll I've seen is you misinterpreting the scene.  Perhaps go and have another watch?

426Buddy

426Buddy

#27
He's either trolling or just really bad with reading comprehension. You're a saint for trying though SM.

SM

SM

#28
You shoulda seen what I typed before I revised it and hit 'Post'.

;D

Axe

Axe

#29
Quote from: SM on Jan 31, 2018, 12:38:38 AM
Over 300 planets have been surveyed.  Not known how many are colonised.
Yes, exactly, we don't know.

Quote from: SM on Jan 31, 2018, 12:38:38 AM
Travel time to LV-426 from Gateway is 3 weeks.
Yup, this is why I think the "we must handle this by ourselves" logic makes even more sense.

Quote from: SM on Jan 31, 2018, 12:38:38 AM
To get a reply to a message from LV-426 is 2 weeks (1 week each way).
I did not catch that, but over the years you did prove indeed to know your shiet :D

Quote from: SM on Jan 31, 2018, 12:38:38 AM
No need to heat, food, water, power and provide constant life support for a crew that's asleep.
This is very plausible. Btw sending comms in 1 week and 3 weeks of travels makes me think that they are not traveling @ light speed, not even near.
Do you remember in covenant how far is the planet and how much time they have to travel? Just curious to put infos together



Quote from: ralfy on Jan 31, 2018, 01:15:04 AM
Your first message, and it had to be this. LOL.

Your first reply to me, and it had to be this. How bully.

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